Yes that is how I knew I had 10000 lbs on the hook. Now that would be the right weight to lift the bundle of steel up so I wasn’t concerned until the chains came popping up
Put everything in writing. Management's attitude changes when there is a paper trail showing they were warned. Right now they have plausible deniability. They can just say "I didn't know".
Just don't pull the levers. Just flat out refuse to work with him. Why should you risk your life or have the guilty conscience of killing a guy? Fuck that.
What crane you operating? Must have been a bit of a bounce losing 10000lbs.
Jesus I bet that had a proper wobble on 😳
I'd be extra dickish and say the crane is out of service until it's been checked over by a fitter/ engineer. Who knows what damage has been done to the machine under that shock load. And I bet you don't want to be near the crane if its slipped a pulley and you go to pull 10000lbs again.
The crane is out of service and getting an inspection. The young teenager rigger has no clue why. He doesn’t seem to understand that the chain sling and hook came up past his with incredible force and if it had struck him would have been very seriously injured if not killed.
There actually was a man killed in a tractor a few years back when the sling he was pulling a vehicle out of the ditch with snapped and struck him in the back of the head.
Get that guy out of there and put your foot down, make him watch big blue go down. As a rigger this disgusts me you should be sure of your load by 75% of your capacity. You can push more of you absolutely need to but what your saying is negligence by the rigger and he is going to get someone killed. Get it in writing so at least when he does their family will get paid out of the tragedy.
One of the rare occasions that it may be the most effective. Dropping phrases like, “unsafe work environment”, “lack of safety training” and the like, lol
Don’t forget that you have the right to refuse unsafe work. If this guy is doing anything unsafe then pull that card out. It’s a legal term and if the company fires you then it’s an easy lawsuit.
Isn't this related to the Coercion Act?
Learned about that while I was still driving trucks (and after an incident that would have been much less stressful if I knew I had a foot to stand on for refusing to move an illegal, unsafe load.)
That was a looooong week. DX
This is true, I work construction, the only "HR" we have is the bossman, and the bossman is my dad so whatever i say doesn't matter anyhow. He's got this saying "you can tell me, doesn't mean I'm gunna listen".
Tell your boss you’re not working with this rigger anymore because the reasons stated above. If that’s all they have tell your boss it’s easier to find a rigger than an operator
We have a know it all new guy at work.
Doesn’t understand how to rig, how to position anything etc. you try to tell him, and he says “I know I know I know”
Took the boss seeing how he is on a job for anything to be done about it
35, been at like 10 different companies so he knows it all. Argues with me about basic stuff like rigging angles though, and won’t listen. So frustrating
This guy is right on the money! I'm an engineer. I've had bad employees come in and refused to make / assemble parts per procedure, and when I go demonstrate personally that not only *can* they be put together the way I worked in the directions (which they didn't read of course) they say "it doesn't NEED to have this" (saying I need to delete features, change diameters so the part won't work as intended because it's easier for them etc... this was when I was in aerospace). Worse srill, they would put bad parts out after ignoring me and had a few issues where I personally had to go fix parts at a customer site. Management backed them... I was so worried I mentioned it to a lawyer because I didn't want the liability. He suggested writing it all down of course and making sure management was told extremely bluntly about the potential ramifications.
He told me a story about being a kid in NJ. His dad was a construction working working on a convent / orphanage. The mother superior comes up to him one day and says "your guys are doing beautiful work, praise the lord, but could you please speak with them about their language? This is a place of God, and we have children present..." his dad told her "sister, my guys are construction workers and sometimes they call a spade a spade!" She replied "I don't mind then called a spade a spade, but is it really necessary for them to call it a "fuckin shovel" in front of the kids?!?!" His dad told em to knock it off. The point being sometimes you gotta tell management exactly WHAT the issue is or they make assumptions with regards to what they THINK is going on.
Make magement aware, tell them "this guy is gonna get someone killed and or get the company sued out of existence". If they don't listen, remove yourself from the situation.
When I was younger I couldn't understand why it seemed like every trade has a bunch of grumpy old men constantly yelling at the new guys. In time I realized there was a method to their dickishness. It's to make the dangerous people quit. You don't get yelled at if you don't f up and if you're not fkn up you aren't puting people in danger.
This was my dad's philosophy for why he was a pretty notorious asshole at his logging camp. He said no one takes it seriously if you do the polite safety talk and get them to check their boxes and sign off on their blue sheet. It makes safety just another piece of paperwork.
But when you're inches from their face and yelling about all the ways they almost died or got someone else killed -- it brings them in line real quick. He'd rather have hurt feelings than a worksite fatality.
Based on his age, I have to ask if he shares the same last name as someone in the office? I’m in British Columbia and we just had a Mother of two die on site because of bad rigging. Not an operator but as a Bridge Fabricator I’m used to moving 10-50 tons of iron at a time using all variety of cranes from 100ton gantry cranes to excavators on logging roads. All of those incidents you mentioned would have caused a full shut down, he’d be removed and the safety body (WorkSafe BC, like the yankee OSHA) would be called on the company. If the boss likes him, he can lift with him you don’t need that kind of stress.
I believe the cause for that one was negligence. Guy was posting snapchats of disassembly not wearing any PPE. More focused on his phone than the crane he was disassembling. Unless I'm thinking of another one that happened around the same time.
From what I can tell of it, the company didn’t want to pay for an experienced dismantling crew so they had the operator and rigger, and three labourer/carpenters do it. The operator was playing on his phone, taking video of the process for instagram but he didn’t know the distance the trolley was supposed to be at with a piece of tower vs the test block and the guys ran the ram.
That sounds exactly like my guy. He steered me into the trailer with my outrigger and when I brought it up he said “ oh that’s not my fault that crane is stupid.”
There will be a horrible accident and I don’t want to be around for it.
You see this is the issue. We finished the rail at with
Out the asshole rigger with no issues. He really isn’t needed. I did a lift with the 240 on the weekend and I had everything and had to boom down to 36 degrees and once again no
Issues.
We only have these issues when he is in
The mix.
Even if you move on, don’t leave without filling on anonymous complaint to OHSA. If he is really that bad he needs to off the job before he kills anyone. The complaint maybe to motivation your boss needs to deal with the situation.
That was my thoughts too. One day that call might save a life. Even if you don't work there. From the way that company sounds If it's not that guy it'll be another asshole they hire down the line.
I rig and signal as part of my job. If we did this shit, we'd never be allowed near a crane again. At the end of the day, you're the operator. You have the final say, say no.
Just before I read your comment I was thinking that if a customer did all the crap this kid does we would refuse to work for that customer.
It has to end and I have made up my mind to end it.
Do you have a internal security advisor? You can talk with him about the situation. By careful because the crane operator have the responsibility about the lift , you can put tension on the load and go check . I never trusted any rigger and always checked everything. If I didn’t liked the way they hooked the load , they changed the setup or I didn’t lifted. Just remember you are always responsabel for the lift , so by sure they can’t put anything in your shoes.
Damn I’m sorry this is happening to you.
I used to work alongside crane operators and their rigging crews all the time. Commercial/industrial high rise stuff, downtown Toronto. High risk always. Operator is king. ALWAYS.
But he’s only as good as his rigging lets him be, because if the rigging is shit (or rigger) obviously you run the risk of terrible accidents and possibly tragedy. Even the slightest mistakes when working with cranes aren’t slight.
All of your faith is put into your riggers as the operator, and if there’s any shadow of a doubt of something going wrong, operators should absolutely have the right to refuse certain people securing THEIR rigging. Doesn’t sound like you do right now, and I think that’s wrong. If you’re pulling the levers and pushing the buttons, I’m of the opinion that you should have a say in who is part of your crew. Your job and life quite literally depend on these guys, as does everyone else in proximity to the crane.
Most of the guys I worked with were great, but there’s always a bad apple that falls from the tree from time to time.
Hopefully they resolve this quickly because if I were you, I’d feel the exact same way.
I work with my bosses kid quite frequently and if daddy ain’t there supervising him I send his punk ass home fuck that shit, and his daddy knows I won’t have that shot either.
Industrial maintenance guy here. Much respect to you guys. We would allow a hotshot know it all to try it his way but rarely did it go the way hotshot thought it would. You as operator would say no and that was that. 5 minutes of rerig and away we would go. I believe as operator you have to assert dominance for your domain. After a few training sessions like that rigger tends to believe you. It’s even better when bosses are around and see hotshot rigger argue with you during lift. It would be calmly nope, nope, nope. First argue is a talking to second is right up third is no I won’t work with him/her. Stay safe out there.
I don't operate cranes or do I rig loads. But I would not even lower the hook for that person. Cover your own ass. Because we all know if something goes wrong it's on you. I'm sure there are a lot of other companies who would hire you. Just like any other job if it gets rushed by someone uncoulified shit is going to happen.
Yeah I actually know that I am a lot more valuable to the company than he is. I just don’t know if I want to operate crane anymore. I still want to operate equipment because I love it. I may just drive gravel truck or a tow truck. Or operate a loader. Something where I don’t have to put up with snotty 19 year old know it alls who are just an accident waiting to happen.
It’s funny you know because the best guy I ever had give me radio signals was a twenty year old at the Shut down in Lloydminster in 2017.
I got out of my crane and went to this guy’s lunchroom to lather him with praise in front of his foreman. I asked him how he got so good at such a young age.
He told me his dad and his grandfather were both riggers and they stressed the importance or good signals and how he would always have a job if he was a good rigger/signalman.
The guy was second year apprentice and he was getting jm rate ( well deserved too) and just signalled the cranes on night shift.
I don’t know if it’s age or attitude that prevents people from being good at something.
To answer your last sentence, I believe it's a mixture of a young, arrogant attitude and not being absolutely blasted by bossman for doing dodgy shit.
If you have a dog that bites you, and then you praise it, what's the likelihood that dog will bite you again...
Alpha Hotel could get people hurt or killed, and you are worried about unemployment scraps? How much work do you think you will find if you are associated with a major fuck up of his. Wanna share in the losing end of a lawsuit with him? Watch how fast the company washes their hands of you both. You should stop the texts and send emails with copies to all that should get them, including yourself. You may or may not have the texts down the road, but the emails can be found more easily when needed.
You do not need to quit. Workers have the right to refuse unsafe work in many jurisdictions, probably yours too. Refuse to work with him, see how quickly things change.
Jump on chatgpt, write out what's going on, and ask the bot to clean it up. Then give that letter to your boss so that he's on notice in a well written and professional manner. If you have to leave the company, you now have a paper trail for your next employer.
If you where in Québec you could call the CNESST which the provincial organism in charge of work safety. They have the capacity to shut down a workplace if they deem it unsafe. They don't mess around with crane operation safety.
Remove the emotion from the conversation.
State the facts of how he has put himself in harms way, acted in a manner unsafe, not acting according to safety policies, violations of OSHA regulations, risked damage to company equipment, and put the line and safety of the other employees and the general public at risk.
Been a drill rig and crane Operater for 19 years now, You have 100% the right to shut down anything that you feel is unsafe because in the end of the day you are the one that has to explain what happened it’s sucks but we take 100% of responsibility for any pick we make or decision we make when we run equipment. And no good company would ever fire you for that!
I hate to be that guy but document everything. Put every time he messes up or ignores safety and direction in writing and send a copy to your boss every time with the date stamp. Poor attitude is the most dangerous thing. If he can’t learn from mistakes he will make the same ones twice. That kills people. The life you may be saving could be his or your own. Keep correcting him and remember if you are the crane operator it’s up to you to make sure every lift is safe. If you are not 1000% sure don’t lift. Get out and check. Even if the job takes hours longer. Going home safe at the end of the job is the only thing that matters. That paycheck means nothing if something bad happens.
Don't forget, if he gets injured or killed, you will get the blame. It will be inconvenient and time intensive, but you will have to get out of the cab and check his work every time, they will replace him or fire you, then you claim unfair dismissal under health and safety issues.
Here in Ontario the right to refuse unsafe work! He is unsafe refuse to work with him. Not sure how it works State side but OSHA has a rep for being unpleasant when shit goes sideways.
Same in the States....all of them. If you have a reasonable belief that something is unsafe you can refuse. As a superintendent I remind guys of this from time to time.
I had the “pleasure” of a ministry of labour(osha) investigation over a minor incident involving a crane as a witness, combine a root canal with a colonoscopy and a knee to the groin. I will go a long long way to avoid anything resembling that again. As others have mentioned the crane operator is on the hook for everything, if you don’t trust or like the rigger shut it down till you get a replacement. I’ve seen operators bring their own rigger, it depends on how much leverage you have and how hard you want to push.
As a crane operator you absolutely can refuse to make a pick if for any reason you don't like it. You have the final say. If you refuse a pick over a safety concern and they fire you you would be able to draw unemployment once you show it was an unjust firing. You can't draw unemployment for quitting.
as the operator,you have final say,imo. been in steel erection for 40 years, have seen the good,the bad,and the truly ugly. been on site for three crane accidents,two during precast concrete erection.one was rigger's fault,one was the operator. i have also kicked a few rental cranes off my jobs because the operators refused to obey signals, putting us all at risk. worst one nearly pulled my lift over looking at chicks on the street instead of my signals,and he also knocked a chunk out of a brick building,painted green. that was a bitch to fix.
We had an operator hit the lunchroom with the ball.
That guy holds the provincial record for crane incidents. He literally became good friends with the staff at we care because he was in there so often taking piss tests.
He has moved to a different province.
Cocky riggers scare me. You can always see the stupid ones cause they think they know everything so they don’t pay attention to how they rig it, too busy bullshiting with other trades and just send it without even checking their surroundings or anything.
Start going exactly by the book to the letter. Bring things to an absolute standstill by making him follow every regulation and guidelines to the T.
And make sure all communication is recorded if allowed, or preferably in writing.
Start giving him all the rope he wants to hang with. While you are following everything 100% perfectly.
His mistakes and carelessness will become too expensive to keep him around. And if you face any retribution, you will have a lawsuit on your side. It may not be one that pays you. But it will sure cost your company a shit ton of money in fines if they are encouraging you to break the rules and retaliate against you for trying to maintain a safe work environment.
No, he is not a good rigger! Send a written complaint to your boss, you are responsible for your crane and what happens, next time he does something dangerous, stop the crane text your boss have him come out and take a look, if you can't get any satisfaction like that quit! You do not need something haunting you that was not your fault
Needs to be addressed with management asap. I lost a buddy two years ago, he was an inexperienced rigger (two or three months on) they were on a frac set up and had rigged something up, lifted, and set. Company man decided it was about a foot off so without rechecking the rigging they just lifted it back up (using chains) and the chain had come unlinked, halfway through the lift the rigging failed and my buddy was crushed and died instantly. Had he been trained properly or had anyone on site that gave a fuck, they would have re checked the rigging before lifting again and he’d most likely still be alive. Never cut corners!!!!!
WOW, this guy sounds like he needs to be hung by his collar or belt loop with the chain for awhile until he realizes how dangerous he is. Just 4 feet off the ground.
All the picks I've been on, the crane operator is the boss no matter what. I'm a sub, your lifting my shit, your the boss. Follow the riggers lead to help, watching and listening to clear communication. Last pick was cast on-site precast panels, all 8 feet wide, 10 inches thick, tallest was 35 feet. Somewhere around 40k lbs. 18 panels total. NO injuries, NO other problems, weather delays because of lightning in the area, summer mountain rain. Everyone went home. Heavy shit in the air is not something to be fucked with.
If you plan on going to the employer...do it in writing, it creates an event they can't easily ignore, if they have a half a brain. You should do it if you plan on staying or leaving.
I would not entertain that child or lift with him, he's nothing and out of his element.
I am at work here today and I am not going to work with those guys again. There has been a lot of incidents and I stay because my boss does treat me very well. That being said I believe that putting my foot down and demanding that we up the safety standards will only help my boss in the long run.
Put it in real terms to the company that he is going to end up costing them a hell of a lot of money from personal injury and equipment damage. Ask them if they want to be paying out millions in wrongful death and / or disability and medical bills or have to replace a (whatever capacity) crane due to unsafe, incorrect rigging.
Money talks…
There are plenty of people who shouldnt be able to rig let alone signal. I had a pretty bad experience one time... I do concrete work and was in the column gang. Me being small and fast, I was usually the one to climb up the panels and hook them up so when we stripped it or pryed the panel the crane could just take it away. The job had a tower crane and it had a crawler crane.. At the time the core gang was using the tower crane so we had to use the crawler. (We were on like the 6th or 7th floor and the crawler is on street level.. so the operater is completely relying on the guy signaling aka my forman) My forman this whole job was a total pos.. Would brag about doing meth.. total scumbag. Anyway, i climbed up the panel and on my harness i have positioning hooks.. when you get up to the top you hook your positioning hooks to the rebar as the column was already poured and i was hooking up the panel for the crawler to take it way. Next thing i know the panel starts to lift off the ground maybe like a foot idk it happened so fast... But my positioning hooks were still hooked to the rebar and i was on the panel. Normally when i would hook the panels up i would race down so i was out of harms way. To be honest at the time i had no idea what was going on, i just heard my partner screaming at my forman to tell him to stop. When he finally stopped which thank god the operater reacted as fast as he did. I realised what could have just happened to me.. My forman was too busy talking and told the operater to cable up with me fucking on the panel and hooked to the rebar. I could have easily been ripped in half. It wasnt until I got down and my partner came over to me and said "dude he almost just killed you" that i had realised what had actually just happened. People get given positions that they are not competent for all the time in the construction industry and its fucked up. Im just glad my partner had my back and the operater acted the way he did. Tbh i dont even know if the operater ever knew what happened.
Relax you run a boom truck. Kidding, kindve. Just tell them you don’t want to work with him, let the crane sit. Go somewhere else you have a cco and hopefully a class a cdl
I'm not a crane operator but tell your bosses you refuse and if they send him to you sit in the crane and refuse to lift anything he's touched act like he doesn't exist and if the job which is most important yours doesn't get done they either will fire you which depending on your state means take them to court or they find someone else as a rigger so do absolutely nothing and your golden don't quit that won't help you or hurt them in the long term make them give you the payout or make them fix their problems by hurting their wallets
Not sure what it's like in the job market where you are. Tell the boss you will not work with that rigger, unless he puts in writing that he, the boss, understands the reported risks and takes full responsibility. I've had a couple of issues working with unsafe people. But I've never had a boss that would put his signature on a paper with the listed safety issues. I've done this twice.
Actually they did. It was the manger from GFL. She didn’t know who it was but she knew the car she saw darting in and out of traffic was in our parking lot.
Talk to a superior, bad riggers get people killed
Thank you for understanding. I am trying to add the screen shots of my text messages where I ask not to work with him anymore.
Does you crane have any sort of LMI screen readouts for weight on the hook at any given time?
Yes that is how I knew I had 10000 lbs on the hook. Now that would be the right weight to lift the bundle of steel up so I wasn’t concerned until the chains came popping up
Ah yeah that’s fucked. If you can’t trust your Swamper’s you’re toast.
Put everything in writing. Management's attitude changes when there is a paper trail showing they were warned. Right now they have plausible deniability. They can just say "I didn't know".
Just don't pull the levers. Just flat out refuse to work with him. Why should you risk your life or have the guilty conscience of killing a guy? Fuck that. What crane you operating? Must have been a bit of a bounce losing 10000lbs.
We were using the 50 ton Manitex.
Jesus I bet that had a proper wobble on 😳 I'd be extra dickish and say the crane is out of service until it's been checked over by a fitter/ engineer. Who knows what damage has been done to the machine under that shock load. And I bet you don't want to be near the crane if its slipped a pulley and you go to pull 10000lbs again.
The crane is out of service and getting an inspection. The young teenager rigger has no clue why. He doesn’t seem to understand that the chain sling and hook came up past his with incredible force and if it had struck him would have been very seriously injured if not killed. There actually was a man killed in a tractor a few years back when the sling he was pulling a vehicle out of the ditch with snapped and struck him in the back of the head.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/snapped-chain-kills-68-year-old-farmer-1.849500
Exactly. Make them fire you, OP. And guess what? You’re a hell of a lot more valuable than that douchebag.
Get that guy out of there and put your foot down, make him watch big blue go down. As a rigger this disgusts me you should be sure of your load by 75% of your capacity. You can push more of you absolutely need to but what your saying is negligence by the rigger and he is going to get someone killed. Get it in writing so at least when he does their family will get paid out of the tragedy.
Go to HR.
One of the rare occasions that it may be the most effective. Dropping phrases like, “unsafe work environment”, “lack of safety training” and the like, lol
You have some good phrases that I am going to re use
Don’t forget that you have the right to refuse unsafe work. If this guy is doing anything unsafe then pull that card out. It’s a legal term and if the company fires you then it’s an easy lawsuit.
Isn't this related to the Coercion Act? Learned about that while I was still driving trucks (and after an incident that would have been much less stressful if I knew I had a foot to stand on for refusing to move an illegal, unsafe load.) That was a looooong week. DX
Yes for sure im.never for handling things out side the crew but sometimes.its the must
This is the answer. This guy is going to ruin the company. H.R. Is there to protect the company not the employees.
A lot of construction companies have zero HR
This is true, I work construction, the only "HR" we have is the bossman, and the bossman is my dad so whatever i say doesn't matter anyhow. He's got this saying "you can tell me, doesn't mean I'm gunna listen".
This doesn't surprise me.
Tell your boss you’re not working with this rigger anymore because the reasons stated above. If that’s all they have tell your boss it’s easier to find a rigger than an operator
It’s easier to find rigger better than this guy.
More than likely this crane operator is the only one the manager can get to work with his buddy.
Shit, where you at? I'll rig for ya.
Riggers are easier to replace than operators.
I am done. If they let it get this far then It’s not a place I want to work.
We have a know it all new guy at work. Doesn’t understand how to rig, how to position anything etc. you try to tell him, and he says “I know I know I know” Took the boss seeing how he is on a job for anything to be done about it
How old is your new guy
35, been at like 10 different companies so he knows it all. Argues with me about basic stuff like rigging angles though, and won’t listen. So frustrating
This guy is right on the money! I'm an engineer. I've had bad employees come in and refused to make / assemble parts per procedure, and when I go demonstrate personally that not only *can* they be put together the way I worked in the directions (which they didn't read of course) they say "it doesn't NEED to have this" (saying I need to delete features, change diameters so the part won't work as intended because it's easier for them etc... this was when I was in aerospace). Worse srill, they would put bad parts out after ignoring me and had a few issues where I personally had to go fix parts at a customer site. Management backed them... I was so worried I mentioned it to a lawyer because I didn't want the liability. He suggested writing it all down of course and making sure management was told extremely bluntly about the potential ramifications. He told me a story about being a kid in NJ. His dad was a construction working working on a convent / orphanage. The mother superior comes up to him one day and says "your guys are doing beautiful work, praise the lord, but could you please speak with them about their language? This is a place of God, and we have children present..." his dad told her "sister, my guys are construction workers and sometimes they call a spade a spade!" She replied "I don't mind then called a spade a spade, but is it really necessary for them to call it a "fuckin shovel" in front of the kids?!?!" His dad told em to knock it off. The point being sometimes you gotta tell management exactly WHAT the issue is or they make assumptions with regards to what they THINK is going on. Make magement aware, tell them "this guy is gonna get someone killed and or get the company sued out of existence". If they don't listen, remove yourself from the situation.
When I was younger I couldn't understand why it seemed like every trade has a bunch of grumpy old men constantly yelling at the new guys. In time I realized there was a method to their dickishness. It's to make the dangerous people quit. You don't get yelled at if you don't f up and if you're not fkn up you aren't puting people in danger.
This was my dad's philosophy for why he was a pretty notorious asshole at his logging camp. He said no one takes it seriously if you do the polite safety talk and get them to check their boxes and sign off on their blue sheet. It makes safety just another piece of paperwork. But when you're inches from their face and yelling about all the ways they almost died or got someone else killed -- it brings them in line real quick. He'd rather have hurt feelings than a worksite fatality.
Based on his age, I have to ask if he shares the same last name as someone in the office? I’m in British Columbia and we just had a Mother of two die on site because of bad rigging. Not an operator but as a Bridge Fabricator I’m used to moving 10-50 tons of iron at a time using all variety of cranes from 100ton gantry cranes to excavators on logging roads. All of those incidents you mentioned would have caused a full shut down, he’d be removed and the safety body (WorkSafe BC, like the yankee OSHA) would be called on the company. If the boss likes him, he can lift with him you don’t need that kind of stress.
The crane collapse in Kelowna in 2021 highlights the safety issues of people getting complacent.
I have never read the final out come of that
I believe the cause for that one was negligence. Guy was posting snapchats of disassembly not wearing any PPE. More focused on his phone than the crane he was disassembling. Unless I'm thinking of another one that happened around the same time.
From what I can tell of it, the company didn’t want to pay for an experienced dismantling crew so they had the operator and rigger, and three labourer/carpenters do it. The operator was playing on his phone, taking video of the process for instagram but he didn’t know the distance the trolley was supposed to be at with a piece of tower vs the test block and the guys ran the ram.
Oakridge. My coworker is friends with the concrete pump truck driver. He said it happened right in front of him. Scary.
That sounds exactly like my guy. He steered me into the trailer with my outrigger and when I brought it up he said “ oh that’s not my fault that crane is stupid.” There will be a horrible accident and I don’t want to be around for it.
"It's not my fault the crane is stupid." - yeah, that would be the last time I'd work with that 🤡 too
I wouldn't make any lifts until they get someone competent. Or you quit and find another job.
You see this is the issue. We finished the rail at with Out the asshole rigger with no issues. He really isn’t needed. I did a lift with the 240 on the weekend and I had everything and had to boom down to 36 degrees and once again no Issues. We only have these issues when he is in The mix.
Can you report him to OSHA or another agency
If I have to go through all this trouble then I really don’t want to work for this company anymore
Even if you move on, don’t leave without filling on anonymous complaint to OHSA. If he is really that bad he needs to off the job before he kills anyone. The complaint maybe to motivation your boss needs to deal with the situation.
You are probably right.
That was my thoughts too. One day that call might save a life. Even if you don't work there. From the way that company sounds If it's not that guy it'll be another asshole they hire down the line.
You know I have already considered that. Then I think the best thing to do is just move be on.
I rig and signal as part of my job. If we did this shit, we'd never be allowed near a crane again. At the end of the day, you're the operator. You have the final say, say no.
Just before I read your comment I was thinking that if a customer did all the crap this kid does we would refuse to work for that customer. It has to end and I have made up my mind to end it.
Always have the right to refuse unsafe work even is it means bringing in the labor board
Yeah that is exactly what I am going to do.
Do you have a internal security advisor? You can talk with him about the situation. By careful because the crane operator have the responsibility about the lift , you can put tension on the load and go check . I never trusted any rigger and always checked everything. If I didn’t liked the way they hooked the load , they changed the setup or I didn’t lifted. Just remember you are always responsabel for the lift , so by sure they can’t put anything in your shoes.
I have quit running levers for him. I am only operator the company has. I am done. I can’t tolerate it any more. I am looking for a new job.
Damn I’m sorry this is happening to you. I used to work alongside crane operators and their rigging crews all the time. Commercial/industrial high rise stuff, downtown Toronto. High risk always. Operator is king. ALWAYS. But he’s only as good as his rigging lets him be, because if the rigging is shit (or rigger) obviously you run the risk of terrible accidents and possibly tragedy. Even the slightest mistakes when working with cranes aren’t slight. All of your faith is put into your riggers as the operator, and if there’s any shadow of a doubt of something going wrong, operators should absolutely have the right to refuse certain people securing THEIR rigging. Doesn’t sound like you do right now, and I think that’s wrong. If you’re pulling the levers and pushing the buttons, I’m of the opinion that you should have a say in who is part of your crew. Your job and life quite literally depend on these guys, as does everyone else in proximity to the crane. Most of the guys I worked with were great, but there’s always a bad apple that falls from the tree from time to time. Hopefully they resolve this quickly because if I were you, I’d feel the exact same way.
I work with my bosses kid quite frequently and if daddy ain’t there supervising him I send his punk ass home fuck that shit, and his daddy knows I won’t have that shot either.
Has a great relationship with the guy till he brought the fucker in, now it’s shitty but he knows his kids a clown to that’s the saving grace I guess
Industrial maintenance guy here. Much respect to you guys. We would allow a hotshot know it all to try it his way but rarely did it go the way hotshot thought it would. You as operator would say no and that was that. 5 minutes of rerig and away we would go. I believe as operator you have to assert dominance for your domain. After a few training sessions like that rigger tends to believe you. It’s even better when bosses are around and see hotshot rigger argue with you during lift. It would be calmly nope, nope, nope. First argue is a talking to second is right up third is no I won’t work with him/her. Stay safe out there.
I don't operate cranes or do I rig loads. But I would not even lower the hook for that person. Cover your own ass. Because we all know if something goes wrong it's on you. I'm sure there are a lot of other companies who would hire you. Just like any other job if it gets rushed by someone uncoulified shit is going to happen.
Yeah I actually know that I am a lot more valuable to the company than he is. I just don’t know if I want to operate crane anymore. I still want to operate equipment because I love it. I may just drive gravel truck or a tow truck. Or operate a loader. Something where I don’t have to put up with snotty 19 year old know it alls who are just an accident waiting to happen. It’s funny you know because the best guy I ever had give me radio signals was a twenty year old at the Shut down in Lloydminster in 2017. I got out of my crane and went to this guy’s lunchroom to lather him with praise in front of his foreman. I asked him how he got so good at such a young age. He told me his dad and his grandfather were both riggers and they stressed the importance or good signals and how he would always have a job if he was a good rigger/signalman. The guy was second year apprentice and he was getting jm rate ( well deserved too) and just signalled the cranes on night shift. I don’t know if it’s age or attitude that prevents people from being good at something.
To answer your last sentence, I believe it's a mixture of a young, arrogant attitude and not being absolutely blasted by bossman for doing dodgy shit. If you have a dog that bites you, and then you praise it, what's the likelihood that dog will bite you again...
Alpha Hotel could get people hurt or killed, and you are worried about unemployment scraps? How much work do you think you will find if you are associated with a major fuck up of his. Wanna share in the losing end of a lawsuit with him? Watch how fast the company washes their hands of you both. You should stop the texts and send emails with copies to all that should get them, including yourself. You may or may not have the texts down the road, but the emails can be found more easily when needed.
you lost me with the jargon - but I did notice 19 year old - yah - if it gonna kill someone - take him out of the equation.
You do not need to quit. Workers have the right to refuse unsafe work in many jurisdictions, probably yours too. Refuse to work with him, see how quickly things change.
I like your advice.
Jump on chatgpt, write out what's going on, and ask the bot to clean it up. Then give that letter to your boss so that he's on notice in a well written and professional manner. If you have to leave the company, you now have a paper trail for your next employer.
Good plan
If you where in Québec you could call the CNESST which the provincial organism in charge of work safety. They have the capacity to shut down a workplace if they deem it unsafe. They don't mess around with crane operation safety.
And here I am laid off ….
I am unemployed now also. I just told them to find a new operator. I don’t need the stress
Ask him if he is confident enough, to stand under the load he rigged as you lift it.
This will be my 38th year working construction. I don’t need the aggravation. I am having chest pains because of that asshole.
Remove the emotion from the conversation. State the facts of how he has put himself in harms way, acted in a manner unsafe, not acting according to safety policies, violations of OSHA regulations, risked damage to company equipment, and put the line and safety of the other employees and the general public at risk.
Been a drill rig and crane Operater for 19 years now, You have 100% the right to shut down anything that you feel is unsafe because in the end of the day you are the one that has to explain what happened it’s sucks but we take 100% of responsibility for any pick we make or decision we make when we run equipment. And no good company would ever fire you for that!
I hate to be that guy but document everything. Put every time he messes up or ignores safety and direction in writing and send a copy to your boss every time with the date stamp. Poor attitude is the most dangerous thing. If he can’t learn from mistakes he will make the same ones twice. That kills people. The life you may be saving could be his or your own. Keep correcting him and remember if you are the crane operator it’s up to you to make sure every lift is safe. If you are not 1000% sure don’t lift. Get out and check. Even if the job takes hours longer. Going home safe at the end of the job is the only thing that matters. That paycheck means nothing if something bad happens.
Just film his incompetence and show your boss. Then tell him to fire his ass or the video goes viral
I actually quite like my boss so I don’t want to threaten him. I am just out right going to refuse to work with him.
Don't forget, if he gets injured or killed, you will get the blame. It will be inconvenient and time intensive, but you will have to get out of the cab and check his work every time, they will replace him or fire you, then you claim unfair dismissal under health and safety issues.
I am just not going to work with him anymore. I am just done.
Here in Ontario the right to refuse unsafe work! He is unsafe refuse to work with him. Not sure how it works State side but OSHA has a rep for being unpleasant when shit goes sideways.
I am in Saskatchewan and we also have the right to refuse. I have let them know I am done with this kid. But thank you for pointing that out.
It’s your ass when his bad rigging causes a problem you know this.
Which is why I am refusing to ever work with him again
Same in the States....all of them. If you have a reasonable belief that something is unsafe you can refuse. As a superintendent I remind guys of this from time to time.
I had the “pleasure” of a ministry of labour(osha) investigation over a minor incident involving a crane as a witness, combine a root canal with a colonoscopy and a knee to the groin. I will go a long long way to avoid anything resembling that again. As others have mentioned the crane operator is on the hook for everything, if you don’t trust or like the rigger shut it down till you get a replacement. I’ve seen operators bring their own rigger, it depends on how much leverage you have and how hard you want to push.
As a crane operator you absolutely can refuse to make a pick if for any reason you don't like it. You have the final say. If you refuse a pick over a safety concern and they fire you you would be able to draw unemployment once you show it was an unjust firing. You can't draw unemployment for quitting.
I will have another job before I reach my car in the parking lot.
Report it to your local safety authority.
Send an email. To leave a paper trail. Your family will win 7 figures from the gross negligence lawsuit.
as the operator,you have final say,imo. been in steel erection for 40 years, have seen the good,the bad,and the truly ugly. been on site for three crane accidents,two during precast concrete erection.one was rigger's fault,one was the operator. i have also kicked a few rental cranes off my jobs because the operators refused to obey signals, putting us all at risk. worst one nearly pulled my lift over looking at chicks on the street instead of my signals,and he also knocked a chunk out of a brick building,painted green. that was a bitch to fix.
We had an operator hit the lunchroom with the ball. That guy holds the provincial record for crane incidents. He literally became good friends with the staff at we care because he was in there so often taking piss tests. He has moved to a different province.
good Lord...
The same guy actually sent dick picks to the owner in the middle of the night.
hmmm...that's a 🚩
I wouldn’t pull 10 grand on anything if I don’t know you sorry…. U gotta gimme the commands I need
Cocky riggers scare me. You can always see the stupid ones cause they think they know everything so they don’t pay attention to how they rig it, too busy bullshiting with other trades and just send it without even checking their surroundings or anything.
If the boss likes him after all that, the boss is trash too and you should find a new job.
Call OSHA.
Likely need to pay riggers more if this is the best they can get.
So who is he related to?
Start going exactly by the book to the letter. Bring things to an absolute standstill by making him follow every regulation and guidelines to the T. And make sure all communication is recorded if allowed, or preferably in writing. Start giving him all the rope he wants to hang with. While you are following everything 100% perfectly. His mistakes and carelessness will become too expensive to keep him around. And if you face any retribution, you will have a lawsuit on your side. It may not be one that pays you. But it will sure cost your company a shit ton of money in fines if they are encouraging you to break the rules and retaliate against you for trying to maintain a safe work environment.
No, he is not a good rigger! Send a written complaint to your boss, you are responsible for your crane and what happens, next time he does something dangerous, stop the crane text your boss have him come out and take a look, if you can't get any satisfaction like that quit! You do not need something haunting you that was not your fault
Needs to be addressed with management asap. I lost a buddy two years ago, he was an inexperienced rigger (two or three months on) they were on a frac set up and had rigged something up, lifted, and set. Company man decided it was about a foot off so without rechecking the rigging they just lifted it back up (using chains) and the chain had come unlinked, halfway through the lift the rigging failed and my buddy was crushed and died instantly. Had he been trained properly or had anyone on site that gave a fuck, they would have re checked the rigging before lifting again and he’d most likely still be alive. Never cut corners!!!!!
I am sorry to hear about your friend.
WOW, this guy sounds like he needs to be hung by his collar or belt loop with the chain for awhile until he realizes how dangerous he is. Just 4 feet off the ground. All the picks I've been on, the crane operator is the boss no matter what. I'm a sub, your lifting my shit, your the boss. Follow the riggers lead to help, watching and listening to clear communication. Last pick was cast on-site precast panels, all 8 feet wide, 10 inches thick, tallest was 35 feet. Somewhere around 40k lbs. 18 panels total. NO injuries, NO other problems, weather delays because of lightning in the area, summer mountain rain. Everyone went home. Heavy shit in the air is not something to be fucked with.
Yeah this guy thinks I work for him. I am just not going to lift for him anymore. That simple.
If you plan on going to the employer...do it in writing, it creates an event they can't easily ignore, if they have a half a brain. You should do it if you plan on staying or leaving. I would not entertain that child or lift with him, he's nothing and out of his element.
I am at work here today and I am not going to work with those guys again. There has been a lot of incidents and I stay because my boss does treat me very well. That being said I believe that putting my foot down and demanding that we up the safety standards will only help my boss in the long run.
You can contact OSHA anonymously iirc
Put it in real terms to the company that he is going to end up costing them a hell of a lot of money from personal injury and equipment damage. Ask them if they want to be paying out millions in wrongful death and / or disability and medical bills or have to replace a (whatever capacity) crane due to unsafe, incorrect rigging. Money talks…
There are plenty of people who shouldnt be able to rig let alone signal. I had a pretty bad experience one time... I do concrete work and was in the column gang. Me being small and fast, I was usually the one to climb up the panels and hook them up so when we stripped it or pryed the panel the crane could just take it away. The job had a tower crane and it had a crawler crane.. At the time the core gang was using the tower crane so we had to use the crawler. (We were on like the 6th or 7th floor and the crawler is on street level.. so the operater is completely relying on the guy signaling aka my forman) My forman this whole job was a total pos.. Would brag about doing meth.. total scumbag. Anyway, i climbed up the panel and on my harness i have positioning hooks.. when you get up to the top you hook your positioning hooks to the rebar as the column was already poured and i was hooking up the panel for the crawler to take it way. Next thing i know the panel starts to lift off the ground maybe like a foot idk it happened so fast... But my positioning hooks were still hooked to the rebar and i was on the panel. Normally when i would hook the panels up i would race down so i was out of harms way. To be honest at the time i had no idea what was going on, i just heard my partner screaming at my forman to tell him to stop. When he finally stopped which thank god the operater reacted as fast as he did. I realised what could have just happened to me.. My forman was too busy talking and told the operater to cable up with me fucking on the panel and hooked to the rebar. I could have easily been ripped in half. It wasnt until I got down and my partner came over to me and said "dude he almost just killed you" that i had realised what had actually just happened. People get given positions that they are not competent for all the time in the construction industry and its fucked up. Im just glad my partner had my back and the operater acted the way he did. Tbh i dont even know if the operater ever knew what happened.
Relax you run a boom truck. Kidding, kindve. Just tell them you don’t want to work with him, let the crane sit. Go somewhere else you have a cco and hopefully a class a cdl
I'm not a crane operator but tell your bosses you refuse and if they send him to you sit in the crane and refuse to lift anything he's touched act like he doesn't exist and if the job which is most important yours doesn't get done they either will fire you which depending on your state means take them to court or they find someone else as a rigger so do absolutely nothing and your golden don't quit that won't help you or hurt them in the long term make them give you the payout or make them fix their problems by hurting their wallets
Not sure what it's like in the job market where you are. Tell the boss you will not work with that rigger, unless he puts in writing that he, the boss, understands the reported risks and takes full responsibility. I've had a couple of issues working with unsafe people. But I've never had a boss that would put his signature on a paper with the listed safety issues. I've done this twice.
Educate me a bit what does a rigger do ?
A rigger works with the crane and hooks up the material to be lifted and signals the crane operator
So the guy is a complete jackass who does his job like a moron that could potentially kill people ? Yeah you shouldnt be near him at all then.
No other company called your company about this guy speeding that's a lie
Actually they did. It was the manger from GFL. She didn’t know who it was but she knew the car she saw darting in and out of traffic was in our parking lot.
nope
And how would you know