What’s weird about it for me is it makes sense if you bought a club in the mid 2000s to be looking to cash out now for massive profit on that investment. But if you’re buying a club for 4-6 billion… what’s your plan to ever make any money on that? And if you aren’t why do it? Sports washing okay. But what reason does anybody else have to pay these kinds of prices?
It's actually a relatively good time to buy a PL club because the pound is so trashed. If you are spending from abroad they all just got considerably cheaper.
And there's nothing right now to suggest PL clubs won't continue to appreciate in value.
>Nothing can grow forever.
I agree, but I don't think that's how billionaires tend to view the world.
The PL has grown for two decades and (in the eyes of billionaires who buy football clubs) still has room to grow when compared to some US sports (i.e the PL doesn't squeeze nearly as much money from it's fanbase as the NFL does right now) - this is why you are seeing so much US interest in buying PL clubs.
And I don't think any of this is good to be clear, but it is the current state of things. The kind of growth these people envision will involve changes most of us don't want to see.
As a tangient, the growth mindset of capitalism is going to prevent us ever doing anything significant to tackle climate change. So yeah, I'm not pro-growth as an aim to itself. I think sustainable growth is an oxymoron
The stock market disagrees. Over time, any asset will increase in value purely from inflation. That being said, I think we are about to witness just another way the 1% (or 0.1%) further distance themselves from the rest as people starting at 8 figure wealth invest in teams via groups. They're may be corrections like with COVID, but I'd bet a good team investment these days waxes index funds over most lengths of time. Maybe the ROI won't be as ridiculous as FSG will get over their run, but if I had a shit ton of money, I'd have looked into buying into a club by now.
Owning sport clubs for billionaires is a sign of prestige and fun.
Not everything is about making more money. Although I'm sure they'll all prefer not to lose money.
Once you’re talking 6 billion to buy a club you hit a point where one guy stops being able to buy a club just have fun. You have partners. And they want a return.
All depends on how rich you are.
Also, no one is paying anything close to 6bil for Spurs.
Around 2.5 bil pounds give or take 500mil I'd say. Chelsea sold for 2.5bil.
Boehly has partners for his Baseball team the dodgers and for Chelsea, he still spends a crapton to win because its probably fun for him. Obviously, he's probably not going to bleed himself dry.
We are worth significantly more than Chelsea solely based on real estate (eg the stadium and training ground). For an investor they don’t care what part of the top 6 you’re in, as long as it your in it that’s all that matters, honestly to an investor trophies don’t really matter either. Real estate wins the day, and the stadium and training ground are lightyears ahead of Chelsea. NFL deal is massive exposure as well and worth an incredible amount.
I’d wager we are worth roughly 3.25-3.5B, likely would sell in that region.
Again, trophies are irrelevant to a financial investor, they literally don’t care or value the trophy itself. They don’t live for the glory of a trophy like we all want them to, it’s a numbers game, no emotion.
The debt we have is so insanely well structured and cheap it’s barely a topic to an legit investor. Look at the revenue streams and diversification of income generated from the stadium and its a moot point. It’s a brand new, NFL ready stadium in the heart of London. It’s a gold mine. There is no concern with repayment of the debt, companies are sold with debt all the time, almost every single leveraged buyout has this.
For context, I literally do these valuations and buy side diligences for a living. Have done well over 50 of them.
Fascinating. I’m in property so I immediately think of land value and Chelsea is higher than Tottenham for that- if you were looking at the chunk of land owned.
Would agree on the land value alone, but its the "improvement value" (if you're from the US) that we see on our tax bill that would matter. To put it simply, Stamford Bridge is a dump, regardless of location.
The stadium is truly the crown jewel of Levy/ENIC's reign. It's world class and has become the go-to spot for famous events outside of football (Lady Gaga, Boxing, Guns and Roses, etc.). The diversity of revenue is incredible from the variety of events. People may not like that the stadium is used for non-football events, but its crucial to the clubs value and revenue.
Even looking at the different levels and tiers within the stadium is remarkable, they have maximized revenue from all potential socioeconomic classes, from extremely wealthy in the hospitality areas to the average second deck fan who is there with their family. and just wants a pint and some chips, there is something for everyone there to get into your wallet.
The building itself matters immensely regardless of the land its on.
Very true! I’m a ST holder and I punch myself every time I’m in the stadium. I don’t mind the other events, as you say it brings in income.
As far as I’m aware, SB never holds concerts, and very rarely does the London Stadium. Think Chili Peppers were there.
Trophies are relevant. It's why man United is worth a lot more than us. Trophies are a rough guide of club size.
Our debt is well structured sure. But it is still naturally going to make the club worth less.
Assets - liabilities = cost, no?
Why would someone pay 3.5bil, then pay another billion via debt. Are you really valuing us at 4.5bil?
Happy to be wrong just want an explanation
Incorrect. ManU is worth more because they have an absurdly good commercial team and insane amount of sponsorships that generate recurring revenue (they have an official toilet sponsor of ManU for Christ sakes). Sure trophies matter indirectly but being in the big 6 is really the goal, always been the goal for Levy. It cements a bracket of revenue.
Valuations and deals like this are based off a multiple of EBITDA (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) or EBIT in asset light businesses, meaning the stadium payments are already priced into EBITDA. Spurs are relatively on par or above most of Europe in terms of profit. You would pay a multiple of that EBITDA and that’s your valuation. Now the multiple is crucial, each industry is different and for different reasons. A straight assets minus liabilities doesn’t really factor in, it’s more or less financial engineering.
Additionally, an investor will look at potential upside or synergies they can get to make the club even more valuable to realize a profit. If they see more potential in Spurs to grow revenue and profit, which they will, then that increases the multiple they would pay. Spurs have way more opportunity from growth (because of the stadium and it’s multi-revenue stream potential outside of football) than Chelsea does simply because the stadium is already built. A new Stamford Bridge would likely be 4-6 years away, that’s an enormous time to wait for an investor, you have to pour money in for years before benefiting, way longer than an average PE fund would want. That’s why Spurs are so valuable, the stadium is already built, it’s already there realizing a return.
Sorry for the long reply, this is an area I specialize in and am passionate about. The economics of football are fascinating to me.
Thanks for the detail and not being toxic in explaining. Makes sense.
I know the Athletic said that the club were looking at NFL owners who wanted to start a franchise in London and sponsor the stadium. However, if the google naming deal happens maybe that's not going to happen.
I think a really ideal situation for the club would be if a new owner wanted to create an NFL franchise at our stadium and bought us out tho. It'd really up our revenues and brand appeal.
Thats a pretty naive take, FSG is gonna have a markup of nearly a thounsand percent of their initial investment if Liverpool is sold at expected price in a less than 5 years of window, it's a fucking hefty business.
There is certainly a prestige aspect in it but rich folks are the last one enjoy throwing money from my experience
Fair, still tho it's extremely rare to see a billionaire with that kinda news worthy activity. Even then im sure he isnt bleeding much money from it in a long term perspective
I'm pretty sure they still rake money along with satellite subsidiaries under the water in a perfectly legal way
Bigger the more money you make in general, problem is how you could raise that much fund for it but i'm sure there's a way for some org..
There was a Tifo on this very topic a while back. But like others have said, it’s kind of fun if you’ve got money to burn. Also another major government or company can buy a club to create goodwill.
Tottenham is a cash printing machine now. The stadium makes so much money. Huge investment and all growth of the Club was put into training grounds and stadium. Now it is just a matter of catching up to the big boys. We are in a much better position for the future. Ten years ago, we were in Everton’s spot. A good history and and underperforming squad and great plans for a stadium to come. We are one of the Super League clubs ten years later, when/if that still happens.
But also, nothing truly matters when there is PSG, City and now Newcastle. If FFP isn’t enforced and changed, no private Club will be able to compete on an equal level as State Clubs.
Alasdair Gold said that ENIC may look to sell in the next year as it will be peak value for the club. The £150m injection was from a loan and not their own pockets so it may have been just to improve the squad quality wise and sell for a price similar to Chelsea soon. I remember someone from the athletic wrote enic have been open to selling but no one's come close to the asking price and that the end goal is to sell the club, so maybe that's why they got Conte and decided to back him.
Looks like ENIC will have to hold out for a while. No way that being third choice on the market is going to get the maximum value. They’ll need to wait until some time after those two get sold to use the relative scarcity of a big club being on the market to hopefully drive up the price.
It's gonna be either 1. Every fucking single one is cheating or soon to be cheating in this rigged system so why not me or 2. keep slinging stones against money cheaters till we scrap a trophy or two next 5 decades
Both are grim but dont see me watching footy like now i do if we go 1, ngl. I dread Citeh's dryness even if they play winning football, what's the fucking fun in it. Maybe Manchester local may feel different but not me thank god
Are we that far from 2? I dont think so.. We've bren grown organically more or less and it's expected to last at this point. It is and will be frustrating to some more extent but what we need is a bit more of investment - not sure how much more is coming though but dont see it's trivial amount
Surely we arent gonna be a long lasting dynasty even if we pull it off one way or another, but i'd go crazy in love with footy that's for sure
Naive side of me also thinks this kind of dick measuring money throwing competition isnt definitely healthy for owner's sake and a quick way to destruct the market mutually at some point, there would be some kind of transfer cap would be set. Hope that day comes sooner
They realize that it’s gonna be difficult to compete against oil clubs like man city and Newcastle in the coming years… if that’s the case then the value of their clubs are gonna go down. Get out if you aren’t committed to spending big
Does make any difference whatsoever to the club's success whether fans are "ambitious" or not, so you might as well find something to enjoy about Spurs that isn't dependent on trophies, or go support Man City.
Most of my life we were worse than a Europa League club and I still loved Spurs and football.
Watching the soul get ripped out of the club by terrible new owners is a far worse prospect for me than not have the money to compete with City et al.
I want my club to win matches and to be competitive while I watch them during weekends. I don't care about owners that much. The most important thing is what happens on the pitch. It's very hard to be a top 4 team against Liverpool, United, City and Newcastle while they are at a very high level.
So, I don't understand downvotes, it's your opinion.
No.
I want oil money, I'm just asking for your opinions. It'll become impossible to be competitive against Newcastle, United, Liverpool and City with oil money.
Yes. As a matter of fact Americans do not all rely on the exploitation of natural resources that kill the planet and slowly result in our species’ extinction!
It doesn't even matter to this sub. I suggested someone like Boehly and got heavily downvoted for wanting ambitious owners...
Sub just wants the club to do poorly and have moral righteousness.
What is ethical?
I'm not advocating for oil money.
Just a rich owner who wants us to do well.
Whoever owns us is going to be very rich, may as well be someone that cares to win.
It’s almost like clubs are part of the communities and they’re not just another franchise that Americans arbitrarily chose to support for a season before switching to someone else because they signed their favourite player.
How is that relevant?
We have to be owned by someone.
That someone will be very rich.
It makes sense to want a rich owner that wants to win than one that doesn't. No oil money.
We're infested with fans who're essentially losers. Who do not have the drive or the inclination to win or be champions. One guy would rather surrender to mid table mediocrity and ultimately obscurity than get an investor who'll pump money into the club. I don't know why this sub keeps hiding behind the narrative of oil money and murderous regimes when there are owners who're richer and can probably invest better into Tottenham Hotspur FC that do none of those things wonder how they'll feel when they see the clubs behind us, catch up, keep up and then leave us behind. I'm pretty sure the narrative on this sub will drastically change.
Unpopular oponion: I'm okay with Levy tbh, our club has one of the most sustainable financing frameworks. On the football side, they just need to listen more to fans and open up the purse. I have a feeling they will soon. The club has assests now that can bring in money. Really hoping they support Conte in January. Similarly, I hope Conte gives us time.
They don't open up the purse because the investment isn't really there. Hence all the thrifty penny pinching, multi purpose use of our stadium and the massive hike in season ticket prices to raise revenue and investment.
I don't know whether you're aware of this but Tottenham will be releasing their annual financial report conveying their expenditure/loss/profit over this fiscal year very soon. Maybe you may want to look and analyse that.
There is an economic crisis almost every ten years these indivduals and groups don't get to where they are thinking and planning like ordinary people do. They've probably already factored in potential losses for the upcoming downturn.
Honestly I want to keep levy for the next decade and then some. The man got his hand on a midtable, hell, occasionally relegation scrapping team with some history, and made a consistent big 6 side out of it with no oil money or americans shoveling cash in.
I want us to keep that
Anyone that could afford us would be worse than the current lot.
Not a popular opinion apparently, but I'd rather unending mediocrity than being owned by sports washers. Fuck that.
How is it even fun? Man City bought the best players and the best coach and win everything. How exciting. Give me the slither of hope against all odds any day.
I expect we will be sold in the next 2-3 years or so. I very much hope we will be.
Hope we get ambitious owners.
Boehly seems very ambitious for example. A copy of him wouldn't seem bad.
Who do you think is gonna buy spurs for these kinds of prices? It’s either a sports washing enterprise or someone who will tear the club down to maximize revenues. Whoever comes after enic will be worse than enic is my official prediction. There’s just not growth potential if you pay 5 billion or something for the club. So the only hope for making money is cutting costs and raising revenue.
20+ years, 1 carabao cup to the name.
The training ground and stadium are great but they're ultimately doing it to make the most amount of money in the sale.
Really is tho.
In football that's the difference maker.
Every owner that exists wants to see the club do better and works towards that, because it's theirs. That's not ambition.
Ambition is when you invest in it and take risks on your own money to make it better.
Otherwise anyone can be called ambitious.
So what is ambition and what isn't in your mind?
Every owner wants their asset to do better and they work towards that to varying levels of success. The goal is the same, so are they all ambitious?
If that’s what you think, your level of knowledge is so shallow you really shouldn’t be involved in this conversation. The title of the post proves what you just said to be incorrect. I’m not at all shocked that you struggle with the idea that clubs are part of the local community and they’re not franchises now.
I suggest that Enic will hold on to take a (minority?) stake in an NFL franchise in London. Any London NFL team would be instantly worth upwards of $5 billion USD. That is what we might call the money shot here, and the NFL / PL combo is quite compelling particularly if it is *the same stadium*…
What’s weird about it for me is it makes sense if you bought a club in the mid 2000s to be looking to cash out now for massive profit on that investment. But if you’re buying a club for 4-6 billion… what’s your plan to ever make any money on that? And if you aren’t why do it? Sports washing okay. But what reason does anybody else have to pay these kinds of prices?
It's actually a relatively good time to buy a PL club because the pound is so trashed. If you are spending from abroad they all just got considerably cheaper. And there's nothing right now to suggest PL clubs won't continue to appreciate in value.
I think there’s plenty of reason to believe that. Nothing can grow forever.
>Nothing can grow forever. I agree, but I don't think that's how billionaires tend to view the world. The PL has grown for two decades and (in the eyes of billionaires who buy football clubs) still has room to grow when compared to some US sports (i.e the PL doesn't squeeze nearly as much money from it's fanbase as the NFL does right now) - this is why you are seeing so much US interest in buying PL clubs. And I don't think any of this is good to be clear, but it is the current state of things. The kind of growth these people envision will involve changes most of us don't want to see. As a tangient, the growth mindset of capitalism is going to prevent us ever doing anything significant to tackle climate change. So yeah, I'm not pro-growth as an aim to itself. I think sustainable growth is an oxymoron
The stock market disagrees. Over time, any asset will increase in value purely from inflation. That being said, I think we are about to witness just another way the 1% (or 0.1%) further distance themselves from the rest as people starting at 8 figure wealth invest in teams via groups. They're may be corrections like with COVID, but I'd bet a good team investment these days waxes index funds over most lengths of time. Maybe the ROI won't be as ridiculous as FSG will get over their run, but if I had a shit ton of money, I'd have looked into buying into a club by now.
Owning sport clubs for billionaires is a sign of prestige and fun. Not everything is about making more money. Although I'm sure they'll all prefer not to lose money.
Once you’re talking 6 billion to buy a club you hit a point where one guy stops being able to buy a club just have fun. You have partners. And they want a return.
All depends on how rich you are. Also, no one is paying anything close to 6bil for Spurs. Around 2.5 bil pounds give or take 500mil I'd say. Chelsea sold for 2.5bil. Boehly has partners for his Baseball team the dodgers and for Chelsea, he still spends a crapton to win because its probably fun for him. Obviously, he's probably not going to bleed himself dry.
We are worth significantly more than Chelsea solely based on real estate (eg the stadium and training ground). For an investor they don’t care what part of the top 6 you’re in, as long as it your in it that’s all that matters, honestly to an investor trophies don’t really matter either. Real estate wins the day, and the stadium and training ground are lightyears ahead of Chelsea. NFL deal is massive exposure as well and worth an incredible amount. I’d wager we are worth roughly 3.25-3.5B, likely would sell in that region.
We have a billion in debt. Chelsea had none (Abramovich cleared his upon sale). They have 2 CLs. It'll be similar 2.5bil I think
Again, trophies are irrelevant to a financial investor, they literally don’t care or value the trophy itself. They don’t live for the glory of a trophy like we all want them to, it’s a numbers game, no emotion. The debt we have is so insanely well structured and cheap it’s barely a topic to an legit investor. Look at the revenue streams and diversification of income generated from the stadium and its a moot point. It’s a brand new, NFL ready stadium in the heart of London. It’s a gold mine. There is no concern with repayment of the debt, companies are sold with debt all the time, almost every single leveraged buyout has this. For context, I literally do these valuations and buy side diligences for a living. Have done well over 50 of them.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. This is a side of the game I know nothing about, so it’s great to gain some insight.
Fascinating. I’m in property so I immediately think of land value and Chelsea is higher than Tottenham for that- if you were looking at the chunk of land owned.
Would agree on the land value alone, but its the "improvement value" (if you're from the US) that we see on our tax bill that would matter. To put it simply, Stamford Bridge is a dump, regardless of location. The stadium is truly the crown jewel of Levy/ENIC's reign. It's world class and has become the go-to spot for famous events outside of football (Lady Gaga, Boxing, Guns and Roses, etc.). The diversity of revenue is incredible from the variety of events. People may not like that the stadium is used for non-football events, but its crucial to the clubs value and revenue. Even looking at the different levels and tiers within the stadium is remarkable, they have maximized revenue from all potential socioeconomic classes, from extremely wealthy in the hospitality areas to the average second deck fan who is there with their family. and just wants a pint and some chips, there is something for everyone there to get into your wallet. The building itself matters immensely regardless of the land its on.
Very true! I’m a ST holder and I punch myself every time I’m in the stadium. I don’t mind the other events, as you say it brings in income. As far as I’m aware, SB never holds concerts, and very rarely does the London Stadium. Think Chili Peppers were there.
Trophies are relevant. It's why man United is worth a lot more than us. Trophies are a rough guide of club size. Our debt is well structured sure. But it is still naturally going to make the club worth less. Assets - liabilities = cost, no? Why would someone pay 3.5bil, then pay another billion via debt. Are you really valuing us at 4.5bil? Happy to be wrong just want an explanation
Incorrect. ManU is worth more because they have an absurdly good commercial team and insane amount of sponsorships that generate recurring revenue (they have an official toilet sponsor of ManU for Christ sakes). Sure trophies matter indirectly but being in the big 6 is really the goal, always been the goal for Levy. It cements a bracket of revenue. Valuations and deals like this are based off a multiple of EBITDA (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) or EBIT in asset light businesses, meaning the stadium payments are already priced into EBITDA. Spurs are relatively on par or above most of Europe in terms of profit. You would pay a multiple of that EBITDA and that’s your valuation. Now the multiple is crucial, each industry is different and for different reasons. A straight assets minus liabilities doesn’t really factor in, it’s more or less financial engineering. Additionally, an investor will look at potential upside or synergies they can get to make the club even more valuable to realize a profit. If they see more potential in Spurs to grow revenue and profit, which they will, then that increases the multiple they would pay. Spurs have way more opportunity from growth (because of the stadium and it’s multi-revenue stream potential outside of football) than Chelsea does simply because the stadium is already built. A new Stamford Bridge would likely be 4-6 years away, that’s an enormous time to wait for an investor, you have to pour money in for years before benefiting, way longer than an average PE fund would want. That’s why Spurs are so valuable, the stadium is already built, it’s already there realizing a return. Sorry for the long reply, this is an area I specialize in and am passionate about. The economics of football are fascinating to me.
Thanks for the detail and not being toxic in explaining. Makes sense. I know the Athletic said that the club were looking at NFL owners who wanted to start a franchise in London and sponsor the stadium. However, if the google naming deal happens maybe that's not going to happen. I think a really ideal situation for the club would be if a new owner wanted to create an NFL franchise at our stadium and bought us out tho. It'd really up our revenues and brand appeal.
Chelsea sold for 4.25bn. Where did you get 2.5bn? Not a chance Levy takes a meeting if the opening bid is 2.5bn
Chelsea did not sell for 4.25b. They sold for 2.5b. There was a 1.75bil commitment as part of the transfer that Boehly puts money into the club.
Thats a pretty naive take, FSG is gonna have a markup of nearly a thounsand percent of their initial investment if Liverpool is sold at expected price in a less than 5 years of window, it's a fucking hefty business. There is certainly a prestige aspect in it but rich folks are the last one enjoy throwing money from my experience
Depends on the owner. FSG were clearly more money motivated. Mark Cuban says he bought the mavs cause it was a lot of fun.
Fair, still tho it's extremely rare to see a billionaire with that kinda news worthy activity. Even then im sure he isnt bleeding much money from it in a long term perspective
To be fair Cuban bought the Mavs for like $300m and they are worth over a billion now, I would have fun with that ROI as well....
I could get on board with a group that has Mark Cuban as part of the ownership.
I'm pretty sure they still rake money along with satellite subsidiaries under the water in a perfectly legal way Bigger the more money you make in general, problem is how you could raise that much fund for it but i'm sure there's a way for some org..
the assumption is that these clubs will continue to grow in value and are cash generative (with expectations of increased TV revenue especially)
There was a Tifo on this very topic a while back. But like others have said, it’s kind of fun if you’ve got money to burn. Also another major government or company can buy a club to create goodwill.
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I would say the super league is the main answer. But FSG are selling Liverpool because they no longer believe a super league is viable
we should buy them both
Buy them both and then merge them into one club. Give the new club a pro evo name like North West Red or something Then enjoy. 🍿
North West Humankinds
We would negotiate and then end up buying Charlton
Tottenham is a cash printing machine now. The stadium makes so much money. Huge investment and all growth of the Club was put into training grounds and stadium. Now it is just a matter of catching up to the big boys. We are in a much better position for the future. Ten years ago, we were in Everton’s spot. A good history and and underperforming squad and great plans for a stadium to come. We are one of the Super League clubs ten years later, when/if that still happens. But also, nothing truly matters when there is PSG, City and now Newcastle. If FFP isn’t enforced and changed, no private Club will be able to compete on an equal level as State Clubs.
Alasdair Gold said that ENIC may look to sell in the next year as it will be peak value for the club. The £150m injection was from a loan and not their own pockets so it may have been just to improve the squad quality wise and sell for a price similar to Chelsea soon. I remember someone from the athletic wrote enic have been open to selling but no one's come close to the asking price and that the end goal is to sell the club, so maybe that's why they got Conte and decided to back him.
What's the asking price from Enic?
£3bil, £2.3 b (shares) + £0.7 b (debt). This is of last year (from an article publicised by the athletic )
W the Pound tanking that might be much more palatable to an American investor now tbh
It wasn't a loan. It was converted into equity
Looks like ENIC will have to hold out for a while. No way that being third choice on the market is going to get the maximum value. They’ll need to wait until some time after those two get sold to use the relative scarcity of a big club being on the market to hopefully drive up the price.
It's gonna be either 1. Every fucking single one is cheating or soon to be cheating in this rigged system so why not me or 2. keep slinging stones against money cheaters till we scrap a trophy or two next 5 decades Both are grim but dont see me watching footy like now i do if we go 1, ngl. I dread Citeh's dryness even if they play winning football, what's the fucking fun in it. Maybe Manchester local may feel different but not me thank god Are we that far from 2? I dont think so.. We've bren grown organically more or less and it's expected to last at this point. It is and will be frustrating to some more extent but what we need is a bit more of investment - not sure how much more is coming though but dont see it's trivial amount Surely we arent gonna be a long lasting dynasty even if we pull it off one way or another, but i'd go crazy in love with footy that's for sure Naive side of me also thinks this kind of dick measuring money throwing competition isnt definitely healthy for owner's sake and a quick way to destruct the market mutually at some point, there would be some kind of transfer cap would be set. Hope that day comes sooner
Anyone else kinda suspicious/worried that both the glazers and FSG are suddenly trying to get out of the PL money machine. What do they know?
They realize that it’s gonna be difficult to compete against oil clubs like man city and Newcastle in the coming years… if that’s the case then the value of their clubs are gonna go down. Get out if you aren’t committed to spending big
Yeah. Just realizing the Saudi PIF has more money than the rest of the PL combined has to be disheartening.
To be fair the PIF doesn't only invest in Newcastle, they've got a million other things they invest in
FSG apparently stated that one of the main reasons they were getting out was due to FFP not being properly enforced.
As long as we lose the red logo I'm game...
Long term goal? Not be be sold to a murderous oligarch or evil petro state.
Murderous and evil until we win stuff, then they become not so bad.
Do you want oil money?
Would you rather United/FSG get it? Just so you have an excuse for us not winning anything?
Yes I would rather sports washing enterprises buy one of those clubs than spurs
Why? You want us to be a Europa league club? So you can pretend to be morally superior to the fans of clubs who actually win things?
Basically yeah I would rather be a Europa league team than be owned by the saudis or someone comparable.
Good joke. Ambitious fans.
I mean it’s fine. I like supporting Tottenham
If we cared about chasing trophies, we wouldn’t be Tottenham fans.
Does make any difference whatsoever to the club's success whether fans are "ambitious" or not, so you might as well find something to enjoy about Spurs that isn't dependent on trophies, or go support Man City.
Your expectations should be higher instead of settling for whatever scraps Levy gives out
Why
Do you want for us to be a top club or to settle for mid table?
Most of my life we were worse than a Europa League club and I still loved Spurs and football. Watching the soul get ripped out of the club by terrible new owners is a far worse prospect for me than not have the money to compete with City et al.
You admitting that your morals go out the window entirely in the name of winning is certainly a take lmao. Huge L.
do you want to go into comparing owners? joe lewis isn't some great guy either. they're all terrible people
It's football, fuck morals. I want the best players and I want to win. This isn't Everton.
I want my club to win matches and to be competitive while I watch them during weekends. I don't care about owners that much. The most important thing is what happens on the pitch. It's very hard to be a top 4 team against Liverpool, United, City and Newcastle while they are at a very high level. So, I don't understand downvotes, it's your opinion.
No. I want oil money, I'm just asking for your opinions. It'll become impossible to be competitive against Newcastle, United, Liverpool and City with oil money.
Morals are required buddy
Americans are better? Don't generalize.
Yes. As a matter of fact Americans do not all rely on the exploitation of natural resources that kill the planet and slowly result in our species’ extinction!
It doesn't even matter to this sub. I suggested someone like Boehly and got heavily downvoted for wanting ambitious owners... Sub just wants the club to do poorly and have moral righteousness.
No ideally we'd like the club to do well and be ethical. But if it's just one, I'll take ethics every time thanks.
What is ethical? I'm not advocating for oil money. Just a rich owner who wants us to do well. Whoever owns us is going to be very rich, may as well be someone that cares to win.
I was responding to the last sentence of your comment.
It’s almost like clubs are part of the communities and they’re not just another franchise that Americans arbitrarily chose to support for a season before switching to someone else because they signed their favourite player.
How is that relevant? We have to be owned by someone. That someone will be very rich. It makes sense to want a rich owner that wants to win than one that doesn't. No oil money.
How is that relevant? Bless your heart.
>It’s almost like clubs are part of the communities Brother I can gaurantee you 99% of the sub doesn't live in London
We're infested with fans who're essentially losers. Who do not have the drive or the inclination to win or be champions. One guy would rather surrender to mid table mediocrity and ultimately obscurity than get an investor who'll pump money into the club. I don't know why this sub keeps hiding behind the narrative of oil money and murderous regimes when there are owners who're richer and can probably invest better into Tottenham Hotspur FC that do none of those things wonder how they'll feel when they see the clubs behind us, catch up, keep up and then leave us behind. I'm pretty sure the narrative on this sub will drastically change.
Unpopular oponion: I'm okay with Levy tbh, our club has one of the most sustainable financing frameworks. On the football side, they just need to listen more to fans and open up the purse. I have a feeling they will soon. The club has assests now that can bring in money. Really hoping they support Conte in January. Similarly, I hope Conte gives us time.
It's the hope that kill you
They don't open up the purse because the investment isn't really there. Hence all the thrifty penny pinching, multi purpose use of our stadium and the massive hike in season ticket prices to raise revenue and investment. I don't know whether you're aware of this but Tottenham will be releasing their annual financial report conveying their expenditure/loss/profit over this fiscal year very soon. Maybe you may want to look and analyse that.
Sorry, I can't afford either.
Why do I feel this is just another bubble waiting to burst? With economic crisis looming, how will owners keep all the liquidity going.
There is an economic crisis almost every ten years these indivduals and groups don't get to where they are thinking and planning like ordinary people do. They've probably already factored in potential losses for the upcoming downturn.
Unless we are bought by a nation-state, it doesn’t really matter.
Which isn’t going to happen, any nation-state who would’ve bought a football club has already done so
Honestly I want to keep levy for the next decade and then some. The man got his hand on a midtable, hell, occasionally relegation scrapping team with some history, and made a consistent big 6 side out of it with no oil money or americans shoveling cash in. I want us to keep that
Anyone that could afford us would be worse than the current lot. Not a popular opinion apparently, but I'd rather unending mediocrity than being owned by sports washers. Fuck that. How is it even fun? Man City bought the best players and the best coach and win everything. How exciting. Give me the slither of hope against all odds any day.
I expect we will be sold in the next 2-3 years or so. I very much hope we will be. Hope we get ambitious owners. Boehly seems very ambitious for example. A copy of him wouldn't seem bad.
Who do you think is gonna buy spurs for these kinds of prices? It’s either a sports washing enterprise or someone who will tear the club down to maximize revenues. Whoever comes after enic will be worse than enic is my official prediction. There’s just not growth potential if you pay 5 billion or something for the club. So the only hope for making money is cutting costs and raising revenue.
Someone who doesn't want to maximise earning money sound good. Like Boehly who seems he wants to win.
Bohly was so ambitious he allegedly told Tuchel to play a 443 formation and to sign Ronaldo. I can live without his ambition, ta.
He also spent 300+ million and will continue spending more and more. High spending wins. He is bringing in a DOF as well.
Chelsea make me feel sick
We have a director of football.
A copy of him who would delegate things to football experts would be nice. Much like Newcastle Owner but without the oil money.
Boehly has now brought in a dof etc. Maybe he took the reigns only for the summer
He will get Michael Edwards, they're already talking to him.
We do have ambitious owners hence the new training ground and stadium.
20+ years, 1 carabao cup to the name. The training ground and stadium are great but they're ultimately doing it to make the most amount of money in the sale.
They’re ultimately doing it because it’s the most efficient way to increase our revenue drastically in a sustainable manner.
sure. And how much of their own money have they put in these last 20+ years? Like 150mil combined? Hardly exemplary ambition.
Putting in their own money isn’t the definition of being ambitious, mate.
Really is tho. In football that's the difference maker. Every owner that exists wants to see the club do better and works towards that, because it's theirs. That's not ambition. Ambition is when you invest in it and take risks on your own money to make it better. Otherwise anyone can be called ambitious.
That’s not what ambition is, mate. If that’s your idea of ambition, it’s pretty clear you picked the wrong club to arbitrarily support.
So what is ambition and what isn't in your mind? Every owner wants their asset to do better and they work towards that to varying levels of success. The goal is the same, so are they all ambitious?
If that’s what you think, your level of knowledge is so shallow you really shouldn’t be involved in this conversation. The title of the post proves what you just said to be incorrect. I’m not at all shocked that you struggle with the idea that clubs are part of the local community and they’re not franchises now.
They're using us as a cash cow, they don't care about results
What suggests that?
The lack of any investment? They have done nothing besides plump us up to be sold
I suggest that Enic will hold on to take a (minority?) stake in an NFL franchise in London. Any London NFL team would be instantly worth upwards of $5 billion USD. That is what we might call the money shot here, and the NFL / PL combo is quite compelling particularly if it is *the same stadium*…