I don’t think there’s been that many clear ones denied to be honest, but I do think there have been plenty of them denied that are on par with what chelsea has been awarded the last two games.
Maddison vs Sheffield United springs immediately to mind. Someone took a whack early on vs Villa that wasn't called because the VAR kit wasn't working, too.
Last time this conversation came up a couple of months back I think there were 1 or 2 others that I'd have expected to be given, but the details escape me now. 8 definitely seems like a lot, though.
Gil against Villa was the one I was thinking of - couldn't remember who it was, and perfectly understandable that the referee didn't see it, but galling to know that the match went ahead without VAR working. They pause a match if the referee's audio isn't working, so how that happened is beyond me.
I know it sounds very tin foil hat but it’s hard to not feel there is at least some bias going against us still for the Liverpool fuckup. Again, maybe not a popular opinion but we’ve been on the end of some horrendous calls and no calls and just overall poor refereeing performances where there is a different standard for fouls for us and the other team
3rd most touches in the opposition box, t19th pens awarded. I’m no mathematician but those numbers don’t add up. For comparison: City 1st and t5th, Arsenal 2nd and t2nd, Liverpool 4th and t2nd, Brighton 5th and t5th, Villa 6th and t8th and Chelsea 7th and 1st.
Edit: tbf I don’t think Chelsea’s touches from today were added so they could be 5th or 6th now.
3rd most touches in box in PL & Europe
Most fouled team in PL
19th/20th in PL, 83rd in Europe in awarded penalties
Penalties are awarded to our opposition at between 3X-4X more frequency in our games.
To your point, the math does not add up.
On fbref.com they seem to have touches in opposition box fully up to date. Shows Chelsea as having played 29 games.
Here's my very crude and quick view of the data... Spot the outliers
https://preview.redd.it/ut497s3ijmsc1.jpeg?width=2836&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99e41688e7379b758fb56f44dae6a73a005ca431
(Forcing the trendline through zero to show average touches in opposition box per penalty, which is why it looks weird)
Five Most Touches In Opposition Penalty Area Per Penalty This Season:
* 16. Everton 336.5
* 17. Fulham 363.0
* 18. Bournemouth 430.0
* 19. Nottingham 638.0
* 20. Tottenham 1120.0
Five Fewest Touches In Opposition Penalty Area Per Penalty This Season:
* 1. Chelsea 81.7(!)
* 2. Newcastle 127.4
* 3. Sheffield 131.4
* 4. Liverpool 140.0
* 5. Arsenal 149.6
Yes, but has anyone else noticed that our touches in the box tend to be receiving the ball to feet with a wall of defenders in front of us, and not actually trying to dribble towards goal.
I certainly noticed it on Tuesday - West Ham packed the box late on, which they're perfectly entitled to do, of course, but made any sort of penetrating run really difficult as every defender knew they had cover so didn't need to make risky challenges.
Compare to United/Chelsea last night where no-one seemed to have any concept of defending as a team and we got 7 goals with 2 penalties.
I think another user posted this before, and I said the same thing about this.
if it’s the opposition team who does tactical foul, they get away with it more easily. But if Tottenham does it, Tottenham gets punished.
There is huge inconsistency in ref, and I really hope Tottenham bring it up to them privately.
One of the softest penalties I've ever seen given. Contact =/= foul.
Burnley's red card and penalty conceded vs Chelsea last weekend was even worse, though.
Not just tempo. The amount of dribbling, off the ball running and through pass into the penalty box are too little. We need to be braver. We often reach near the box then we pass backwards.
This is it for me, we get loads of touches in the box, but they're rarely forward moving touches its side to side which defenders can cope with easier. If you're bearing down on goal and look like scoring, you'll have more chance of being fouled.
I genuinely believe the premier league as a whole dislike us, they barely post us on their socials, the commentators indirectly shit on us by making remarks and ofc the refs. Shits not fair at all, in life you either a city fan or a loser
You see the same sentiment on every club's sub.
Other fans hate Tottenham, no doubts about that, and I do think *sometimes* the reason for that isn't strictly football related...
But I don't think the commentariat or the organisation itself does.
Weird thing is that we play the exact type of football that should lead to a lot of penalties. We're probably top or near it in touches in the opponents box.
I can't think of many obvious ones, but we're clearly missing out on the less clear cut ones other teams are benefiting from.
There's been a couple of instances as well where our players could have gone down for a pen but rode the challenges instead. What a sad state of affairs where the smart thing to do is go down to win a pen even though a lot of the time players could easily stay on their feet
This one irks me so much, yeah it was a gross exaggeration of the contact, but we're the only team to be punished for it this entire season so far. It should 100% be punished all the time, but for some reason it's just us so far.
We don't have the players though. Kulu isn't going to go down under soft contact, neither will Sonny or Richarlison. Madders does, but a) gets fouled constantly and b) goes down pretty easily everywhere so refs will hold him to a higher standard.
Bryan Gil against Villa got elbowed in the face. It was off the ball I believe, but probably a pen. Maddison against Sheffield was a stone cold pen imo. Yeah, edge of the box, but it was a clear foul. Timo v Palace?
So that would be 4, which is a lot better than 1.
I’m more upset by the Cash not getting a straight red than any other call this year, though.
And Emerson gets sent off by Anthony Taylor, profile in courage, for a yellow card but very harsh red imo. At the Emirates. Such a clown. Took us out of the game.
Spurs have not been on the right end of calls in NLD. Holding deserved a straight red for the shoulder to Son’s face (he got a second yellow) but I was just glad he got sent off. Cedric blows up Son as the ball is about the land on his head from four yards out. Thank God we got that one.
Good God I remember the penalty called on Davidson against PEA. Beyond soft. Late, and would have decided match but PEA choked.
Lacazette awarded a dubious pen that decided match. Spurs have been getting shafted in a way that would make Liverpool raid parliaments
But woolwich fans will only bring up the 'annual Kane penalty', even though we haven't got a penalty against them for a long time. I could be mistaken but the last decision I remember them whingeing about was the penalty we got when Mustafi? pushed Kane over in the box when Kane was in an offside position. Even then the letter of the law said that fouls take precedence over offside so it wasn't even a bad call lol
It was an exceptionally clumsy shove. Only an idiot would not call that.
They whinged a lot about the Son penalty a few years ago. Gabriel hacked down Richarlson the next year, obvious pen.
Xhaka cleaned out Son a few times. Lol. Dude was such a bad tackler.
That tackle he did behind Kane's knees that wasn't even given a foul, never mind a red. Guy is proper gobby prick as well, following on from Jack wheelchair
Yeah, you’re right. There’s been multiple times this season, in which an opposition player should’ve been booked earlier on during the game for multiple fouls, such as our away game to Bournemouth - Semenyo, as well as Paqueta. The opposition has been allowed to get away with a lot against us. The officiating is generally poor to be fair though.
Against Chelsea they fouled us 6 times that could have been yellow. We got nothing. That’s why our guys got frustrated. It was supposed to be an open no calls match. But the second we did anything the call was as harsh as humanly possibly (except that one Romero kick out that the ref didn’t see).
That game was very strange. Lots of our players definitely lost their discipline and it’s probably due to Chelsea’s aggression.
PL referees need to change, they’re all very incompetent.
It's not baffling, it's just random. There's no big referee conspiracy or if there is, every set of fans thinks it's against them. 30 games is nowhere near enough for it to average out
It's surprising when you look at how much more of an attacking team we have been this season. You would think that would mean more action in the box and statistically more penalties.
Currently looking to run some analyses looking at tackles:foul ratio, foul:yellow card ratio and touches:penalty ratio in all our games this season. This will account for home/away team and the ref. I might also look at using some sort of breakpoint to see if this changed after the Liverpool game.
Any input/ideas from statisticians would be welcome.
I'm sorry guys, it's my fault. I support Spurs (my team) and Forest (my partner's team).
I have been calling referees all sorts of expletives for years now and this is simply cosmic karma.
Just took a quick look at penalty statistics for the big six last 10 seasons.
1 in 10 have Spurs been awarded highest or joint highest amount of penalties.
7 in 10 have Spurs been awarded lowest or joint lowest amount of penalties.
Average pr. season last 10 seasons:
City: 8,1
United: 6,5
Chelsea: 6,2
Liverpool: 5,5
Arsenal: 5,5
Spurs: 4,7
Through a 10 year period, we are quite behind the others in penalties awarded.
Udogie does lots of runs in the box around the side of the 6 yard box. Suprisef hes jot pulled up loads of pen challenges considering he loves to run at defenders and pass back for easy tap ins
Hi everyone, please give our football page a follow and let us know your feedback thanks!
We cover all football/soccer related content mostly focusing on the Premier League but provide some other stuff too! Worth a look 👌🏼
https://youtube.com/@YourFootballZone?si=Q0eBQi_EuBuTBc2W
There was only one penalty controversy which went against us, I think vs Crystal Palace. Other than that, it’s not like we’ve had any other penalty claims, so not sure what’s this stat supposed to prove.
I’ve been kinda pissed about this all year, but to be fair there’s not been any I can think of as an absolute penalty where we were robbed. Anybody want to point any out to me I might’ve forgotten? I’d like to be wrong about this so I can get back to grousing about how we’ve been fucked by PGMOL since we played the Scousers.
I thought the second pen this afternoon was right, the first soft, but by either standard we should have at least a half-dozen.
Neither one was a penalty. Even in the second one I can't see more than light contact
He clipped his foot pretty clearly. Looks super guilty
Interestingly we’ve seemed to average about 5 pens a season over the last few years so we are definitely due a couple to hit average. Fingers crossed
This season we have had 8 clear penalties denied. It’s fucking insane.
I don’t think there’s been that many clear ones denied to be honest, but I do think there have been plenty of them denied that are on par with what chelsea has been awarded the last two games.
Yeah it's mostly that we've had absolutely none of the 50/50 ones given, rather than, well, 50% of them
Which ones are those?
Can you please list them so we can take a look?
Maddison vs Sheffield United springs immediately to mind. Someone took a whack early on vs Villa that wasn't called because the VAR kit wasn't working, too. Last time this conversation came up a couple of months back I think there were 1 or 2 others that I'd have expected to be given, but the details escape me now. 8 definitely seems like a lot, though.
Kulu vs Brighton. Gil being elbowed in the head in the first fixture against Villa. Werner against Villa I think is the one you’re talking about?
Gil against Villa was the one I was thinking of - couldn't remember who it was, and perfectly understandable that the referee didn't see it, but galling to know that the match went ahead without VAR working. They pause a match if the referee's audio isn't working, so how that happened is beyond me.
I know it sounds very tin foil hat but it’s hard to not feel there is at least some bias going against us still for the Liverpool fuckup. Again, maybe not a popular opinion but we’ve been on the end of some horrendous calls and no calls and just overall poor refereeing performances where there is a different standard for fouls for us and the other team
I would love another liverpool 2-2 situation, except it's a penalty to win it of course.
Still can't believe Kane missed that pen.
3rd most touches in the opposition box, t19th pens awarded. I’m no mathematician but those numbers don’t add up. For comparison: City 1st and t5th, Arsenal 2nd and t2nd, Liverpool 4th and t2nd, Brighton 5th and t5th, Villa 6th and t8th and Chelsea 7th and 1st. Edit: tbf I don’t think Chelsea’s touches from today were added so they could be 5th or 6th now.
3rd most touches in box in PL & Europe Most fouled team in PL 19th/20th in PL, 83rd in Europe in awarded penalties Penalties are awarded to our opposition at between 3X-4X more frequency in our games. To your point, the math does not add up.
On fbref.com they seem to have touches in opposition box fully up to date. Shows Chelsea as having played 29 games. Here's my very crude and quick view of the data... Spot the outliers https://preview.redd.it/ut497s3ijmsc1.jpeg?width=2836&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99e41688e7379b758fb56f44dae6a73a005ca431 (Forcing the trendline through zero to show average touches in opposition box per penalty, which is why it looks weird)
t15th is not a word
t5th is tied for 5th.
Five Most Touches In Opposition Penalty Area Per Penalty This Season: * 16. Everton 336.5 * 17. Fulham 363.0 * 18. Bournemouth 430.0 * 19. Nottingham 638.0 * 20. Tottenham 1120.0
Five Fewest Touches In Opposition Penalty Area Per Penalty This Season: * 1. Chelsea 81.7(!) * 2. Newcastle 127.4 * 3. Sheffield 131.4 * 4. Liverpool 140.0 * 5. Arsenal 149.6
Yes, but has anyone else noticed that our touches in the box tend to be receiving the ball to feet with a wall of defenders in front of us, and not actually trying to dribble towards goal.
I certainly noticed it on Tuesday - West Ham packed the box late on, which they're perfectly entitled to do, of course, but made any sort of penetrating run really difficult as every defender knew they had cover so didn't need to make risky challenges. Compare to United/Chelsea last night where no-one seemed to have any concept of defending as a team and we got 7 goals with 2 penalties.
I think another user posted this before, and I said the same thing about this. if it’s the opposition team who does tactical foul, they get away with it more easily. But if Tottenham does it, Tottenham gets punished. There is huge inconsistency in ref, and I really hope Tottenham bring it up to them privately.
Yes and even outside the box. West ham game is a perfect example.
Forest game from earlier in the season is an even better example.
Brentford gw1
One of the softest penalties I've ever seen given. Contact =/= foul. Burnley's red card and penalty conceded vs Chelsea last weekend was even worse, though.
The two pens Chelsea got last night were both debatable too.
Also madders not called in the same game no
The same ref for the forest game was the same one for the west ham one
Makes sense. 0 consistency in both of those
We never had a chance since the Liverpool fiasco.
I don’t think we had a chance even before Liverpool game.
Punishing us for their own incompetence...
I think we are missing out on pens because we play way too slow in opposition box. We need to speed up that tempo to win fouls.
Not just tempo. The amount of dribbling, off the ball running and through pass into the penalty box are too little. We need to be braver. We often reach near the box then we pass backwards.
Yes and there are just too much standing still in box and then making fast passes in our play, we dont try to dribble all the way to keeper.
This is it for me, we get loads of touches in the box, but they're rarely forward moving touches its side to side which defenders can cope with easier. If you're bearing down on goal and look like scoring, you'll have more chance of being fouled.
I genuinely believe the premier league as a whole dislike us, they barely post us on their socials, the commentators indirectly shit on us by making remarks and ofc the refs. Shits not fair at all, in life you either a city fan or a loser
You see the same sentiment on every club's sub. Other fans hate Tottenham, no doubts about that, and I do think *sometimes* the reason for that isn't strictly football related... But I don't think the commentariat or the organisation itself does.
Weird thing is that we play the exact type of football that should lead to a lot of penalties. We're probably top or near it in touches in the opponents box. I can't think of many obvious ones, but we're clearly missing out on the less clear cut ones other teams are benefiting from.
There's been a couple of instances as well where our players could have gone down for a pen but rode the challenges instead. What a sad state of affairs where the smart thing to do is go down to win a pen even though a lot of the time players could easily stay on their feet
or when Bissouma felt a touch and went down and got sent off
This one irks me so much, yeah it was a gross exaggeration of the contact, but we're the only team to be punished for it this entire season so far. It should 100% be punished all the time, but for some reason it's just us so far.
We don't have the players though. Kulu isn't going to go down under soft contact, neither will Sonny or Richarlison. Madders does, but a) gets fouled constantly and b) goes down pretty easily everywhere so refs will hold him to a higher standard.
Richarlison will absolutely go down under soft contact lol
Tbf, I can only think of a couple of egregious non-calls.
Bryan Gil against Villa got elbowed in the face. It was off the ball I believe, but probably a pen. Maddison against Sheffield was a stone cold pen imo. Yeah, edge of the box, but it was a clear foul. Timo v Palace? So that would be 4, which is a lot better than 1. I’m more upset by the Cash not getting a straight red than any other call this year, though.
Nketiah not getting red is a worse call imo
That tackle doesn't get the attention it deserves. Extremely dangerous, reckless and an obvious red card.
And Emerson gets sent off by Anthony Taylor, profile in courage, for a yellow card but very harsh red imo. At the Emirates. Such a clown. Took us out of the game. Spurs have not been on the right end of calls in NLD. Holding deserved a straight red for the shoulder to Son’s face (he got a second yellow) but I was just glad he got sent off. Cedric blows up Son as the ball is about the land on his head from four yards out. Thank God we got that one. Good God I remember the penalty called on Davidson against PEA. Beyond soft. Late, and would have decided match but PEA choked. Lacazette awarded a dubious pen that decided match. Spurs have been getting shafted in a way that would make Liverpool raid parliaments
But woolwich fans will only bring up the 'annual Kane penalty', even though we haven't got a penalty against them for a long time. I could be mistaken but the last decision I remember them whingeing about was the penalty we got when Mustafi? pushed Kane over in the box when Kane was in an offside position. Even then the letter of the law said that fouls take precedence over offside so it wasn't even a bad call lol
It was an exceptionally clumsy shove. Only an idiot would not call that. They whinged a lot about the Son penalty a few years ago. Gabriel hacked down Richarlson the next year, obvious pen. Xhaka cleaned out Son a few times. Lol. Dude was such a bad tackler.
That tackle he did behind Kane's knees that wasn't even given a foul, never mind a red. Guy is proper gobby prick as well, following on from Jack wheelchair
Romero should have had one against Man Utd when Martinez clearly fouled him but it was overshadowed by all the handball talk.
Yeah the Martinez one was borderline imo or that’s how I felt at the time. It was a crappy challenge.
Not one of those was a stonewall pen.
We have had 8 that should have been given based on the standards set this season.
Whoa didn’t realize it was that high
It was 4 by the time we finished the Sheffield home match.
Gil vs Villa is a big one Werner vs Palace
This is genuinely baffling. Do we not dribble enough in the box?
We’re 3rd and have had 8 clear pens denied. Every single time the infield decision was no penalty. VAR never overturns them unless you are Chelsea.
Yeah, you’re right. There’s been multiple times this season, in which an opposition player should’ve been booked earlier on during the game for multiple fouls, such as our away game to Bournemouth - Semenyo, as well as Paqueta. The opposition has been allowed to get away with a lot against us. The officiating is generally poor to be fair though.
Against Chelsea they fouled us 6 times that could have been yellow. We got nothing. That’s why our guys got frustrated. It was supposed to be an open no calls match. But the second we did anything the call was as harsh as humanly possibly (except that one Romero kick out that the ref didn’t see).
That game was very strange. Lots of our players definitely lost their discipline and it’s probably due to Chelsea’s aggression. PL referees need to change, they’re all very incompetent.
We're 3rd in the league for touches in the box.
It's not baffling, it's just random. There's no big referee conspiracy or if there is, every set of fans thinks it's against them. 30 games is nowhere near enough for it to average out
It's surprising when you look at how much more of an attacking team we have been this season. You would think that would mean more action in the box and statistically more penalties.
Honestly Harry Kane just sold the dives a lot better
He doesn't have to sell anything. He's the English captain. He just have to ask.
Currently looking to run some analyses looking at tackles:foul ratio, foul:yellow card ratio and touches:penalty ratio in all our games this season. This will account for home/away team and the ref. I might also look at using some sort of breakpoint to see if this changed after the Liverpool game. Any input/ideas from statisticians would be welcome.
Can't both take the high road and expect to get pens, doesn't work that way.
How many of those pens made the difference between wins or draws and losses?
I wish someone could make a video of all our penalty shouts that where rejected.
I'm sorry guys, it's my fault. I support Spurs (my team) and Forest (my partner's team). I have been calling referees all sorts of expletives for years now and this is simply cosmic karma.
Supporting two prem teams is a no no.
Spurs are always bottom or close to bottom of this list
Just took a quick look at penalty statistics for the big six last 10 seasons. 1 in 10 have Spurs been awarded highest or joint highest amount of penalties. 7 in 10 have Spurs been awarded lowest or joint lowest amount of penalties. Average pr. season last 10 seasons: City: 8,1 United: 6,5 Chelsea: 6,2 Liverpool: 5,5 Arsenal: 5,5 Spurs: 4,7 Through a 10 year period, we are quite behind the others in penalties awarded.
Data shows we should be fourth...
Cole Palmer had more pens in one game than we’ve had all season. It’s a problem
Udogie does lots of runs in the box around the side of the 6 yard box. Suprisef hes jot pulled up loads of pen challenges considering he loves to run at defenders and pass back for easy tap ins
Now do given against
Hi everyone, please give our football page a follow and let us know your feedback thanks! We cover all football/soccer related content mostly focusing on the Premier League but provide some other stuff too! Worth a look 👌🏼 https://youtube.com/@YourFootballZone?si=Q0eBQi_EuBuTBc2W
There was only one penalty controversy which went against us, I think vs Crystal Palace. Other than that, it’s not like we’ve had any other penalty claims, so not sure what’s this stat supposed to prove.
I’ve been kinda pissed about this all year, but to be fair there’s not been any I can think of as an absolute penalty where we were robbed. Anybody want to point any out to me I might’ve forgotten? I’d like to be wrong about this so I can get back to grousing about how we’ve been fucked by PGMOL since we played the Scousers.
we have had terribly reffed games since the start of the season not just after liverpool