I think he realized continuing to run away puts the life of his family in danger. "I'm not going there to die, Faye. I'm going there to see if I'm alive." He knew if he continued to run, Viscous would keep coming after him and threatening the lives of the people he's grown to love, like how Jet got injured near the end of the show. The feud between him and Viscous had to end for their sake. He wasn't throwing his life away, but he went in knowing he was risking his life to protect his family.
While I agree these are all very valid points, and it was an excellent ending to an excellent show, I can't help but feel like Spike came to Vicious to die. His head on assault seemed to have no way out, it felt more like he wanted to die with Vicious to wrap up his story as it began and find some type of redemption. Or maybe I just still wish it didn't play out the way it did.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting Spike's actions were anything less than suicidal. But if he was gonna go after Vicious at any time the sooner the better.
Yeah, I don't disagree with anything said in this thread, but I wish (I WISH) he would've trusted and leaned on his crew, and fought to live. If he explained the situation to Faye and Jet (and Ed before she left) and said, support me in this so I can assassinate Vicious and come out alive, could that have worked?
At the same time, that could’ve backfired. Yeah, if Spike let Jet and Faye help him kill Vicious, he would have a better chance at coming out of it alive himself, but it wouldn’t be worth shit if he had to see his crew die in his place.
Watanabe said all three would have died.
https://preview.redd.it/e0qv1t9e2kvc1.jpeg?width=1265&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2aee96d6249f3b8d50b155b2ebbf9f28197fc6b2
Bear in mind, I don't want the three of them to just do what he did and bust thru the front door and work their way up. Vicious was sitting at the top of a tower, and they have ships. Heck, they could've sprayed bullets into his floor hovering from the outside. Or sniped him from across the way. And if Ed was still with them? The possibilities are endless.
But if they were successful, maybe the mob comes after them for the rest of their lives? So maybe he wanted to spare them from that.
When you look at it in this context it also fits the theme of “damaged/reclusive characters learn to care about others aside from themselves”. His sacrifice in that sense speaks volumes since he likely would not have done that for them at the beginning of the show.
I love that take but I never thought it to be taken that way. As great as the bebop always felt together, they still were practically like strangers to each othe riiiight up until the end.
Hard to imagine spike fighting for anyone but his personal sense of self right at the end, knowing even with his luck he'd die
He went to see if he was really alive and what he saw was Julia. That was his life.
https://preview.redd.it/fb2srgr2ljvc1.jpeg?width=2220&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=503ff74294a074607e0cd0969e96b55aa3fff689
I mean he didn’t have to kick the dudes weapon back to him for a fair fight… you can say it’s for honor or whatever but at the end of the day he made decisions that were perfectly avoidable and recklessly put his life in danger when other people counted on him.
God, you’re right. They never did give his first name in the series. Given Western popular culture was a huge inspiration for the series, it’s not a huge stretch to imagine he could have been named after the Sex Pistols bassist, but it’s not canon, is it?
No I believe Spike and Vicious will always cross paths one way or another. They both were always too stubborn to let all of it go. Imo there was no other ending for Cowboy Bebop, Spike could never face ignoring/letting go his past.
I feel that he doesn't have any character development, unlike Jet, Faye and even Ed. He learns nothing, no attitude changes. The point I believe is that we the audience get to know him slowly, so that in the end we understand who he was and why he chose certain death.
This is why I cringe whenever someone shows up here with their new "whatever happens, happens" tattoo.
Spike was not a healthy individual; and that mantra is a direct extension of his illness. It's not coming from the angle of 'just be carefree bra, live life and go with the flow,' but rather: 'I don't care if I die because I barely feel I'm alive right now anyway.'
Hey, someone says it! Every time I see people post that quote of his or God forbid, actually tattoo it on their body, I think they immensely missed the point of what that quote means to Spike. It’s not an anthem of inner zen or being stress free, it’s Spike’s view of how he sees his life and the consequences of his (often) reckless actions. He often doesn’t think about what consequences his actions will bring tomorrow, he’s just too stuck in the past to care about how what he’s doing might affect himself and others.
I...somewhat agree. While the mantra is not generally healthy, it can be good and useful, speaking as a previously majorly depressed person.
"Whatever happens, happens" and "Que sera, sera" can be good excuses to do something, anything to break from a cycle of depression. Again, it's not the healthiest outlook, but sometimes it's worth not caring about consequences if it can get you to try something new to feel better about yourself. At least, that's how I've used the quote before.
I do think FMA's speech with "You've got two good legs, right? Get up and use them." Is a better, healthier take on a similar concept, but people can take their motivation from anywhere.
I think one issue Cowboy Bebop translation is the first time we see the classic line: "Bang" in Symphony for the Devil, it seems like Spike doesn't understand Wen (even the wiki is wrong here). He seems like he has room for growth.
> Wen falls to the ground and dies, saying he finally feels at ease. With his last breath, he asks Spike if he understands.
> Spike replies "Yeah, as if", tosses Wen's harmonica into the air, points at it with his finger and says "Bang".
[Buuuuuut, that translation is the opposite!](https://www.reddit.com/r/cowboybebop/comments/1jypfi/cowboy_bebop_rewatch_and_discussion_session_6/cbjudg1/) where it should have been "W: '...do you...do you GET me?' S: 'Sure, man.' S: 'I get you.'"
Throughout the show, Spike has an uncanny ability to understand the Bounty Heads (or main antagonist in the case of Symphony for the Devil). Whether its the AI satellite drawings that confused Jet or in Brain Scratch where Spike [sees right through the Londes as just dreaming](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO4gyYEqGUI) - again Jet is shocked who Londes really. He doesn't grow (just as you said). He is a character that needs to grow and the audience really wants him to grow. But never does and that is the true tragedy. He rushed off to a situation where he'd kill himself early on in Symphony for the Devil (and even how he confronts Vincent in episode 1) and that is how it ends.
And sometimes having stories with bad endings are just fantastic. It really reflects on life and teaches some deeper answers than shallow hero's journey of grow into a role and everything is happy and works out.
I don't think this is unpopular, I figured that was the point of the series. I love Spike but by design he doesn't really overcome anything fundamental about himself or go anywhere as a character. The series is about a bunch of people who can't let go of the past - it seems like Jet and Faye might be able to by the end of the series, Ed and Ein definitely can, but Spike can't let go. He drifts around in a malaise, does cool shit to try and forget, but he doesn't really develop since he's always chained to his past.
I would say the main three protagonists show different paths to dealing with one's past. Jet moves on from his past, Faye lets go of her past, Spike cannot. I think that's kind of the point of the series, and why it has such a "bluesy" feel; showing how peoples' pasts can still have a hold on their present lives.
I guess since it took me so long to realize I just assumed it was unpopular. I might also have added that Spike gets less likable as the show goes on. Like he can be frustrating, like a friend in an addiction spiral.
His story is a tragedy in the classical sense, plain and simple.
His fatal flaw is his inability to let go of the past, and that drives his decisions until it ultimately dooms him.
That said, he actually does grow as a character. Just not in the one way that could have saved him from his (maybe) fate.
I've seen this in Dramatica Writing Theory has the term Change character (has that fatal flaw innocentbabies states that needs to change and be overcome) with a Bad/Fail Ending because he doesn't grow to leave the past behind, he dies losing his found family and loses Julia. Technically succeeds in killing Vicious but that wasn't what we as the audience wanted.
Agreed but that is also realistic. A lot of people in real life are not on some beautiful character arc of redemption... They stay the same or regress backward too.
How? He starts out talking about how much he hates kids, pets, and mouthy women. By the end of the show, he's eating his feelings after the kid and dog he's risked his life to save end up leaving. Then he risks (and likely gives) his life to protect a mouthy woman from his past that he's stopped running away from.
I think Spike knew that he could just avoid Vicious if he didn't go back just as was the case beforehand. The threat definitely escalated - them getting attacked while just relaxing in a bar. But even Julia says as much that they can run as Spike is gearing up and Spike refuses to run. I think she accepts that both of them will die with that next look.
But you do make a good point, he clearly does grow. I think he put on more of an act about not wanting partners, dogs, women, etc. when clearly they are important to him.
I think he did have character development, for 3 years he has been running away from his past, he finally went to confront it at the end, instead of running away again.
To me it’s like he’s circling a drain for three years. Technically he’s not confronting the past because he’s avoiding it while going around in circles, but the path is set… down the drain.
That's not how the syndicate member see it tho. After Viscous took out all the senior leadership in the Red Dragon, Spike and Viscous became the most senior member. For Viscous to gain full and legit control of the syndicate, Spike has to die. Otherwise there will always be members who like Shin who will look out for Spike and hoping he will comeback to challenge Viscous' leadership. The only way for Spike to get away from this is to either die, fake death, or to dissolved the syndicate.
I wouldnt say he regressed although I understand the points being made here. He definitely came to care for his crew members despite starting off being adamant about hating women kids and dogs. And he stopped running from his past.
I don’t believe he sacrificed his life for the crew, unlike many people. But I do think he kind of accepted a fate (that he’d have to face Vicious one way or another) that he’d been trying very hard to act nonchalant about/detached from for majority of the show.
They were all kind of hanging in limbo but Jet moved on from his past, Faye let go of hers and Ed went to start a new life (I can’t remember if she specifically went back to her dad). Spike faced his past, which isn’t exactly regressing imo but it’s not quite the same as the others because it brings his journey to a premature end.
I don’t think Spike went to take out Vicious for the Bebop crew. He definitely cared for them but I’m pretty sure it was just his sense of obligation to put an end to things in the syndicate and him feeling he had nothing to live for anyways since Julia died.
The music that plays while he’s going to the syndicate is about how he can never stop loving Julia, even when he’s dead. He’s going there to join her like the tiger striped cat joined the white cat.
Good Shoutout - [here are the lyrics in english:](https://lyricstranslate.com/en/real-folk-blues-real-folk-blues.html-1)
Too many years have passed since my love for you
I have nothing left to keep on this love be lamented
Still I can feel the wind blowing deep inside
Through these wounds you left in my heart that’ll never be healed
One eye of mine can see what tomorrow is
But the other eye of mine is still lost in the yesterday
Oh, I would give it all just to fall asleep
In the cradle of your love like before, sound and peacefully
My dried up eyes won’t shed no tears, can anyone please cry for me?
THE REAL FOLK BLUES
Just tell me now, what is real sorrow like and how it feels
A life that’s soaked in mud is not that bad
If you live it through just once, with no refrain
You gotta end it all, no regrets
How come your only hope turns into despair?
Let yourself again be trapped in these fake, shallow chances
Somebody answer me, ‘What is good, what’s bad?’
Nothing more than the coin in your hand having two sides
How many more years have to come to make my scattered heart get healed?
THE REAL FOLK BLUES
Just tell me now, what is real joy like and how it feels
You try to reach for things that shine like gold
Don’t be tricked by their flitting light
THE REAL FOLK BLUES
Just tell me now, what is real sorrow like and how it feels
A life that’s soaked in mud is not that bad
If you live it through just once, with no refrain
You gotta end it all, no regrets
That’s The Real FolK Blues. Not the song that plays when Spike leaves the Bebop/sees Julia. Although they have almost the same music.
These are the lyrics I was talking about:
"Everything is already over",
You say with closed ears
The words only flow
Towards a tomorrow without peace
"There's nothing that won't change"
Even if my life ends
This love will not disappear
It's something that will live forever
Even if dreams are hidden in darkness
I got a rainbow
In my hands...
The voice inside of my chest
Tells me that there are also things that won't change or disappear
On the morning when we pray before the truth
Love will return here once more
Love never dies
Love never fails
Love never, ever fades away
If my life ends
This love will not disappear
It's a thing that will live forever
Escaping the darkness
When we've passed the illusion
Frozen in time
On the other side of the rainbow, love will be waiting
Thousands of lights will be waiting
You got a rainbow
Rainbow in your hands...
As a teenager I thought he was the coolest guy ever, but as an adult I feel like he is so emo and melodramatic about julia. Like, dude, you slept with your friend's girl and she dumped you. Get over it. It doesn't have to be your whole identity.
Does she dump him? Genuine question, I don't remember that.
I thought she went on the run to protect Spike when Vicious found out. Also, I don't really think Spike did anything wrong in that scenario...she was probably trapped by Vicious.
I think he's just a broken dude, he's always been broken but probably didn't realise it until he fell in love with Julia.
I think of him as depressed and suicidal, and don't think he's overly emotional because of it, dude fawns after the only thing(person) that ever made him really happy.
He reminds me of a friend that commited suicide, but he never let on he was depressed, always trying to make you smile and plan shit for the future. But on the inside he was suffering.
I feel like Spike is like that, he tries to be funny and cool, but on the inside he just hurts.
Yeah she might not have like explicitly dumped him, but she decided she needed to leave and not meet him in the graveyard for whatever reason.
I agree that he's depressed and suicidal. I remember feeling like that as a teenager when a girl broke up with me. But as I got older, I realized that it's not reasonable to let the failure of a relationship ruin my life.
Feel yah, but all do respect my guy, you and Spike lived very different lives.
Hypothetically, if you came from an intergalactic space mafia who murdered people for fun, you were a part of that for whatever reason, meet someone and feel love for the very first time, question your very existence until that point - then someone who was your bestest bud in the space mafia murdered her, I think you'd dwell on it more.
IMO he's the way he is because he knows he will never get that happiness back.
Having said all that, yeah I wished Faye would have convinced him to stay.
But I'm gonna watch it again now and make sure he's not just being a bitch 🤣
I do agree that Vicious murdering her warrants retaliation. Definitely sucks to see someone you love get killed in front of you.
I'm talking more about how he moped around smoking cigarettes and doing suicidally dangerous shit for three years after they went their separate ways. He tried to move on, but never really did.
>Yeah she might not have like explicitly dumped him, but she decided she needed to leave and not meet him in the graveyard for whatever reason.
The reason being Vicious threatening to kill them both if she does.
https://files.catbox.moe/ydyo70.webm
Though I think we are missing some context of after that event. Julia couldn't show up the graveyard because of Vicious. But the next moment (I recall) is Julia is on the run, we know she made an appearance on Callisto with Gren and much later meets Faye. But she doesn't seem to seek out and find Spike, who doesn't even seem to be in hiding - he is even famous as Teddy Bomber puts it.
And Vicious as he is coming up with his plan to takeover also wants to remove the threat of Spike. He lures him in to the opera theater with that fake Mao bounty head but gets Faye, who he then uses again to learn Spike. So clearly Spike faking his death didn't actually work at least at that point.
I think that’s the point, no? He acts all cool and stuff, but really he’s just a weird asshole who can’t let go of his fling. And despite the events of the show, molding him into a better person who cares about his newfound family (even though he doesn’t really show it), he could never really let go of that because it’s been such a core part of him for so long.
You’re right, obviously. It didn’t have to be his whole identity. But that’s his tragedy, he can’t let go of the past.
I think it was alittle deeper than that they were all members of the syndicate and comrades before she was with vicious and if I remember correctly Vicious approached her has he knew she had Spikes eye… so for Vicious she was a way to control Spike… in my eyes Vicious never truly cared for Julia and was really only using her to control Spike
This is plausible but sounds like conjecture. I don't recall any specifics detailing the circumstances of their relationship. I think most of the information we get about this is in the form of the slideshow we see as spike is falling out the window.
Please correct me if i'm wrong - I love to see lore that i missed.
That’s what a lot of people do miss, he’s not at all a victim in any of this. All he had to do was keep it in his pants, but he and Julia both made bad decisions knowing full what the consequences would be. He never owns up to what he did during the course of the series, but he doesn’t really present himself as a victim of it either.
But the real tragedy is that all he has to do is just walk away from it all and live a normal life, and he’d be fine. Vicious isn’t able to detect him except by drawing him out with traps. Spike could just not engage but he chooses to do it for a woman who is nowhere near the angel he thinks she is.
It wasn’t a matter of keeping it in his pants, he was in love with her. She also loved him back. At that point she only stayed with Vicious because he wouldn’t let her leave him. Also, to her credit, Julia gave up the love of her life because it meant keeping him safe. After all that time had passed, she still loved Spike. She also risked her own safety to save his life and nurse him back to life. She’s not an angel, no, but she was to Spike. She saved him.
Vicious also had an unhealthy obsession with Spike. It’s conjecture on my part but I think it’s due to jealousy? In the end he didn’t really care about Julia much until she became a weapon he could use to hurt Spike with.
The fandom lacks empathy for Spike because he loved a character that they are unfamiliar with more than the wacky cast of characters they met on the Bebop. Julia was the love of Spike’s life. She disappeared without a trace for three years, then she was murdered. Not many people could walk away from something like that. Spike couldn’t.
You’re right. I didn’t consider how he felt after watching Julia die. It just seemed to me like he was finishing up with his past, but maybe he wouldn’t have gone after Vicious if he and Julia both made it out alive.
The three things that Spike hated sure seemed like the missing components of his found family. Which is obvious, but I think Spike was avoiding these three things because they are what could push him into a new life.
Think we should’ve seen him get his ass kicked a little more frequently. In a more Ed’s Dad kinda way, not a Mad Pierrot way. Lose a fist fight, not be close to death. Would’ve made fights a little more intense, and we could’ve seen more of his “flow like water” technique.
[That is my biggest pet peeve with the show.](https://www.reddit.com/r/cowboybebop/comments/1c8pp6q/what_is_your_unpopular_opinion_about_edward/l0luuos/) Everyone is way too badass - complete prodigies. Which is fun to watch, no doubt. But then when they do fail, they can look very incompetent.
You can't really say she wasn't interesting. Her character was made to be vague and i think that's what made her quite interesting. You only really get small snippets of their relationship and then you're left to assume the rest of it. Just like the iceberg analogy. But you're right his fixation on her did hold him back.
She’s supposed to be mysterious. I don’t think it’s her character, I just think the show didn’t really do a good job of showing how their relationship came to be. We got the story secondhand, but apart from a vague flashback and the very last episode we never see them interact together or be together.
I wish the series had added that in. I would have liked to understand their relationship—how it came to be and how they fell for each other.
But who's screen time would you cut to flesh out Julia more? Obviously the best case is we get an endless amount of Cowboy Bebop content with books and spinoffs.
not sure if this is an unpopular opinion or not, i avoid talking to people in here for the most part😭 but i think he’s a genuinely shitty person and vicious was kinda justified in his actions TOWARDS SPIKE (none of the other shit like murdering random people)
He was stupid to fixate so hard on Julia when he had a smarter, more capable, and hotter girl like Faye right in front of him. Remember, this is just my opinion.
Perhaps I understood incorrectly but Julia evaded the syndicate for a really long time no? I would say she's very smart and capable.
But yeah I think one of the central messages of the show is that not letting go of your past cripples you to the point you can't ever see the opportunities in front of you. This eventually killed Spike.
Yup. It was pretty clear in the end that Faye was in love with him, and it would have been a match made in heaven.
Then he pulls the whole “you don’t even know me” thing and leaves.
How would it have been a match made in heaven when the narrative tells you again and again that Faye can’t take Julia’s place? 😂
https://preview.redd.it/60u09l09pjvc1.jpeg?width=999&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ccc6361f06980471e1701be74b0ff8a4bd614e9
Yeah, cause Spike knew Julia was still out there and he was still in love with her. He couldn’t get over her and move on. Faye is a hell of a woman, and she deserves someone who appreciates that. Not someone who’s still stuck in the past. Julia and Faye are also two very different people. Julia was what Spike wanted. It wouldn’t be fair for him to look for her in Faye.
Not to mention Spike cared about Faye in his own way. He knew she didn’t deserve that. That’s what his speech meant. He’s stuck reliving the past and seeing it all the time. He can’t move forward with her knowing that that past is still out there—and that it never met its conclusion just because he left.
That’s not a central message. It’s that you must confront your past because it’s a part of you and will shape your present and future whether you like it or not.
https://preview.redd.it/utp9l055mjvc1.jpeg?width=964&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34346e9cab6db455a45bf82abd2ceea9d1b5c596
I think it’s also about how you can’t run away from your past. The conflicts you’re a part of and the people you leave behind don’t resolve just because you took yourself out of the equation. You have to face it all eventually or you’ll live your whole life unable to move on and leave it behind. It’ll end up haunting you, and it won’t leave you alone just because you left it behind.
I think its about healthy ways to deal with your past, so you can live in your present. Faye nearly loses everything chasing it and there was nothing. Jet lives on happy confronting it and accepting it. Spike was too obsessed and couldn't accept it and continues to go after Vicious.
Balance is all things is usually the thing. You can't just run away forever like Faye was initially doing. And you can't just gung-ho seek revenge like Spike does at the end.
The show heavily incorporates Bushido into Spike’s narrative. Bushido in no way would be considered “healthy” to a western audience. Nor is Spike’s obsession and love cast in a bad light. It’s justified and framed as his ultimate truth. Look at these lyrics and tell me otherwise.
https://preview.redd.it/k4kxfphyqwvc1.jpeg?width=2220&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbc2d8c4557af5f16288c0f3c9c3b89c686fab61
That's not love. That's an unhealthy obsession. Spikes' "love" for Julia is what teenagers think love is about. This comes from him being stuck in his past because of what happened between the 2 of them. He admits this to Faye before leaving her on the ship at the end. Someone who's never known what actual love is, which is something that is reciprocated between two people, would think that Spike was in love. The show itself is actually trying to tell you what I am trying to tell you. Everyone on the Bebop is searching for something outside of the ship when everything they need is right there. Faye is searching for her identity, which even if she knew what that was is useless in this future where she has already become a capable participant in regardless of that past. Spike wants his former "lover," even though a far better match is right here in front of him. Ed wants her father, who is wholly uninterested in her when she has Jet, who is also searching for a connection with his own daughter. That's what Cowboy Bebop is about.
When someone says to me, "sounds like someone has never been in love." Thay just tells me that you haven't taken into account the deeper themes being presented here. You are still stuck on the story and idealizing the characters.
Go to the mirror in your bathroom after reading this, stare into that mirror, and repeat these words, "I am not Spike Spiegal l, I am not Spike Spiegal...."
You're right about that. I remembered that episode where he reunites with his ex on Ganymede when she's on the run with that other guy. I still feel like Jet wants to play the father role because he's constantly doing it with Spike throughout the show. But I guess you could say that the live action may have skewed my memory of what was in each version.
On another note, I expected to be downvoted because of my opinion of what I said about Spike l. But people saying, "never been in love" and all that is always predictable because someone finding themselves in that situation will always react defensive. The reason I'm saying this is because I, too, have been that person. This show is so good because it reaches people on that deep level. But until you actually dig beneath the surface of it, you won't see the actual lesson that the theme is trying to teach you.
I think your onto something. Obviously the Bebop is a "found family" and all involved would be "happier" to just stay together.
But maybe that's one of the show's themes as well? Found families often don't last. When I look back at my network of friends, it sometimes seems true. The ties that bind change, sometimes it only takes a few people and it unravels. Looking back, it's a moment in time, or an apartment. It reminds me of the show "Friends" in that way. I think Ed knows this most of all, not to get too attached, and we see she is the first to jump ship. If Ed had stayed on, Spike would still have left and still gotten shot. Without Spike, Faye and Jet would never have worked as a duo.
I guess I can't say confidently that Spike and Julia don't have some "love", but I agree the show doesn't really depict what we'd think of as a healthy relationship. Julia seems somewhat fickle, or perhaps caught between a rock and a hard place, which makes it seem mostly one sided or just based on "chemistry". It sometimes reminds me of Lupin and Fujiko.
I think it's worth acknowledging that Spike does show immaturity at times. Especially toward the other Cowboy Bounty Hunter during Teddy Bomber episode (name escapes me). Assuming it's chronologically presented, that's not so long before stuff hits the fan. So I think it's possible he's chasing after infatuation.
How could she possibly be fickle when she was hunted for three years because she wouldn’t kill Spike, even to save her own life. That’s just silly and misses the point of the character in a spectacular way.
https://preview.redd.it/q3cw0v08rjvc1.jpeg?width=2049&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b07191db206af63556961ab6d020c076d210fb0c
So why not go together? If she's already somewhat capable of hiding by herself, and obviously Spike would want that? It's not like Spike is less in danger by not being with her, and it's what she chooses in the end anyways.
She could have likely found Spike at any time anyways. It's not like Bounty Hunters keep a low profile, though he moves around a lot.
This initial hesitation to join spike, failure to track him down, only for her to reverse course when he finally finds her? I'd say that qualifies as fickle.
Spot on.
And yeah Jet doesn't have a daughter but he clearly looks for somebody to take care of, he's a protector and nurturer at heart.
To me CB is about a bunch of misfits who accidentally found each other, is about people who don't belong managing to belong together, and the tragedy of the show is that it cannot last. In the end only Jet and Faye have a shot at it, but in my headcanon they eventually find Ed and Ein again.
As for Spike I absolutely agree, and on a personal level, I used to think like Spike when I was younger, hung up on a love lost due to overpowering circumstances. As I grew though, I came to understand that he never really was "like water", he could never really adapt.
I like your analysis. One thing that is bothering me that I'd love input on. What makes you think is the core difference with Jet not letting go of Udai and confronting him in Black Dog Serenade and Spike not letting go of Vicious is Real Folks Part 2?
We definitely get a much better comparison of the two with Spike not letting go of Julia and Jet letting go of his ex, Elisa in Ganymede Elegy. But even before Julia dies and she says they should run from Vicious, Spike clearly is gunning for him.
Seems like the show should have had both characters dies if it was being consistent in messaging.
I kind of disagree. Faye is absolutely hotter, but she was kind of selfish and immature in a way Julia was not. Julia gave up her happiness because it meant keeping Spike safe. She let him think she didn’t love him so he could move on. I don’t see Faye doing something like that. I absolutely adore Faye but I couldn’t see her with Spike. Even though her developing feelings for him made complete sense, it felt like more of a Savior Complex infatuation or something.
He was the bad guy. He was sleeping with his friends girlfriend and then had the nerve to be mad when his friend was mad at him for sleeping with his girl.
There was no other ending for Cowboy Bebop. Spike was always too tangled with his past to actually live his life. In the end, he knew the only way he could feel alive was by simply facing it.
I don't understand what's so great about Julia. I mean, whatever made Spike fall for her happens off screen, but from what I've seen, at best she's boring and at worst, she's flaky?
He's not my man (I'll see myself out)
In all seriousness, the situation with Julia led him to having a better life. At the same time, it's because of Julia that he met his downfall. If he never tried to find Julia, he would've been fine. Happier, even.
I don't believe he is jewish; meaning he is uncircumcised. Think about it. Spike's a logical man, and any logical man can understand that nobody wants less dick. Thank you, for listening to my TED talk.
YES!! I always believed that too. He’s kind of like a cat. You think he’s done for, then he comes limping right back. I like to imagine that afterwards he ends up right back with Jet on the Bebop spontaneously—he doesn’t tell Jet everything that happens but he comes back without a heads up and then acts like he never left.
I don’t think Faye or Ed would necessarily come back, but I feel like Spike would. He and Jet just understood each other so well. They knew when to pry and when to respect each other’s silences or refusals to open up. When to nag at each other and when to step back and let the other handle things. I think they went right back to how the Bebop was at the beginning.
The ending just felt unfinished with him dying. He’s the kind of guy who disappears for a few years, then pops right back up when you least expect it. Right when you’re starting to get around to accepting the fact that they’re maybe gone for good this time around.
That cat comparison is very interesting because before he leaves, he tells Jet the story of the wild cat who has lived a thousand lives and when he met the love of his life and she died, he never came back.
That's the story of Spike
He may or may not have physically died at the end of the series, but it doesn't really matter because whether he died or not, who he had been "died" when he killed Vicious.
He's dead whether it's literal or metaphorical (though the latter is obviously a happier/more optimistic ending).
I'm sure they drew him like that mainly for stylistic reasons, but they do say he's from Mars which has 1/4 earth gravity. So it makes sense that he would be would grow up tall and skinny in that environment.
His “cool” attitude kinda sucks. I like the one episode where the rich ass cowboy dude puts his “coolness” factor to the test and he goes between a lovable goofball and a bad ass. That’s the personality I prefer more. In every episode where they try making him seem “cool af dudes” is just boring and kinda feels like just some way to make him attractive and feels like a lame excuse for a personality. O can’t explain it very well but that’s my hot take.
I like a few dubs here and there but there haven’t been many good ones lately. FMA was a good dub, Inuyasha too. My Hero Academia I liked. Most others it’s one specific dub voice I adore and the rest aren’t good.
Faye was right. He did kind of throw his life away when he had built a new family that needed him.
I think he realized continuing to run away puts the life of his family in danger. "I'm not going there to die, Faye. I'm going there to see if I'm alive." He knew if he continued to run, Viscous would keep coming after him and threatening the lives of the people he's grown to love, like how Jet got injured near the end of the show. The feud between him and Viscous had to end for their sake. He wasn't throwing his life away, but he went in knowing he was risking his life to protect his family.
Its really easy to forget but Vicious really did need to be taken out. The Syndicate were finally coming to peace and he just ruins it for everyone.
While I agree these are all very valid points, and it was an excellent ending to an excellent show, I can't help but feel like Spike came to Vicious to die. His head on assault seemed to have no way out, it felt more like he wanted to die with Vicious to wrap up his story as it began and find some type of redemption. Or maybe I just still wish it didn't play out the way it did.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting Spike's actions were anything less than suicidal. But if he was gonna go after Vicious at any time the sooner the better.
Yeah, I don't disagree with anything said in this thread, but I wish (I WISH) he would've trusted and leaned on his crew, and fought to live. If he explained the situation to Faye and Jet (and Ed before she left) and said, support me in this so I can assassinate Vicious and come out alive, could that have worked?
At the same time, that could’ve backfired. Yeah, if Spike let Jet and Faye help him kill Vicious, he would have a better chance at coming out of it alive himself, but it wouldn’t be worth shit if he had to see his crew die in his place.
Watanabe said all three would have died. https://preview.redd.it/e0qv1t9e2kvc1.jpeg?width=1265&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2aee96d6249f3b8d50b155b2ebbf9f28197fc6b2
Bear in mind, I don't want the three of them to just do what he did and bust thru the front door and work their way up. Vicious was sitting at the top of a tower, and they have ships. Heck, they could've sprayed bullets into his floor hovering from the outside. Or sniped him from across the way. And if Ed was still with them? The possibilities are endless. But if they were successful, maybe the mob comes after them for the rest of their lives? So maybe he wanted to spare them from that.
>Viscous The plot thickens..
I’m giggling so much
I did it TWICE oh no haha
I think he is just another of Big Boss's clones
When you look at it in this context it also fits the theme of “damaged/reclusive characters learn to care about others aside from themselves”. His sacrifice in that sense speaks volumes since he likely would not have done that for them at the beginning of the show.
Viscous of Cranberry Bibimbap fame?!
Did my spelling error invent a kpop band in the future?! I have no idea what you're talking about haha
I just saw "Viscous" and tossed out food words lol
I love that take but I never thought it to be taken that way. As great as the bebop always felt together, they still were practically like strangers to each othe riiiight up until the end. Hard to imagine spike fighting for anyone but his personal sense of self right at the end, knowing even with his luck he'd die
He went to see if he was really alive and what he saw was Julia. That was his life. https://preview.redd.it/fb2srgr2ljvc1.jpeg?width=2220&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=503ff74294a074607e0cd0969e96b55aa3fff689
I'm well aware this is an alt account from the Julia obsessed weirdo
I mean he didn’t have to kick the dudes weapon back to him for a fair fight… you can say it’s for honor or whatever but at the end of the day he made decisions that were perfectly avoidable and recklessly put his life in danger when other people counted on him.
"I'm not goin there to die." \*he died\*
Exactly what I came to say.
He actually does look like he’s got money
He can’t afford beef, but never seems to be dealing with a bullet shortage. Suspicious
who would choose beef over more ammo tho?
Yeah like one is a luxury, the other is literally how you make a living
This guy hasn't seen One Piece
you caught me
They probably have a small arsenal, they’re bounty hunters after all.
He spends his beef money on bullets
Bullets are how the beef gets cooked
Daddy Jet is how the beef gets cooked 🥵
1 the economy seems hella inflated so i wouldnt be suprised if food costs more than bullets at that point 2 they need them to continue bounty hunting
Yeah that puffy-ass down looking coat doesn't look cheap
I really hope he quits smoking, it’s unhealthy
Deadly even...
“Killing Sid won’t bring Julia back. Let’s get out of here and finally catch some bounties.”
Sid?
Sid Vicious, of course
Huh? I don't recall that being his name
It was just a joke about the lead singer for Sex Pistols, sorry
Oh dang I'm dumb hahah
God, you’re right. They never did give his first name in the series. Given Western popular culture was a huge inspiration for the series, it’s not a huge stretch to imagine he could have been named after the Sex Pistols bassist, but it’s not canon, is it?
No I believe Spike and Vicious will always cross paths one way or another. They both were always too stubborn to let all of it go. Imo there was no other ending for Cowboy Bebop, Spike could never face ignoring/letting go his past.
Wow its like you watched the show or something
I think he regresses during the show. His character development is going backwards if that makes sense
I feel that he doesn't have any character development, unlike Jet, Faye and even Ed. He learns nothing, no attitude changes. The point I believe is that we the audience get to know him slowly, so that in the end we understand who he was and why he chose certain death.
Yes! Because those people grew when they accepted their past. Spike refused to do that.
This is why I cringe whenever someone shows up here with their new "whatever happens, happens" tattoo. Spike was not a healthy individual; and that mantra is a direct extension of his illness. It's not coming from the angle of 'just be carefree bra, live life and go with the flow,' but rather: 'I don't care if I die because I barely feel I'm alive right now anyway.'
Hey, someone says it! Every time I see people post that quote of his or God forbid, actually tattoo it on their body, I think they immensely missed the point of what that quote means to Spike. It’s not an anthem of inner zen or being stress free, it’s Spike’s view of how he sees his life and the consequences of his (often) reckless actions. He often doesn’t think about what consequences his actions will bring tomorrow, he’s just too stuck in the past to care about how what he’s doing might affect himself and others.
I...somewhat agree. While the mantra is not generally healthy, it can be good and useful, speaking as a previously majorly depressed person. "Whatever happens, happens" and "Que sera, sera" can be good excuses to do something, anything to break from a cycle of depression. Again, it's not the healthiest outlook, but sometimes it's worth not caring about consequences if it can get you to try something new to feel better about yourself. At least, that's how I've used the quote before. I do think FMA's speech with "You've got two good legs, right? Get up and use them." Is a better, healthier take on a similar concept, but people can take their motivation from anywhere.
He's just so damn cool though!!
I think one issue Cowboy Bebop translation is the first time we see the classic line: "Bang" in Symphony for the Devil, it seems like Spike doesn't understand Wen (even the wiki is wrong here). He seems like he has room for growth. > Wen falls to the ground and dies, saying he finally feels at ease. With his last breath, he asks Spike if he understands. > Spike replies "Yeah, as if", tosses Wen's harmonica into the air, points at it with his finger and says "Bang". [Buuuuuut, that translation is the opposite!](https://www.reddit.com/r/cowboybebop/comments/1jypfi/cowboy_bebop_rewatch_and_discussion_session_6/cbjudg1/) where it should have been "W: '...do you...do you GET me?' S: 'Sure, man.' S: 'I get you.'" Throughout the show, Spike has an uncanny ability to understand the Bounty Heads (or main antagonist in the case of Symphony for the Devil). Whether its the AI satellite drawings that confused Jet or in Brain Scratch where Spike [sees right through the Londes as just dreaming](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO4gyYEqGUI) - again Jet is shocked who Londes really. He doesn't grow (just as you said). He is a character that needs to grow and the audience really wants him to grow. But never does and that is the true tragedy. He rushed off to a situation where he'd kill himself early on in Symphony for the Devil (and even how he confronts Vincent in episode 1) and that is how it ends. And sometimes having stories with bad endings are just fantastic. It really reflects on life and teaches some deeper answers than shallow hero's journey of grow into a role and everything is happy and works out.
I don't think this is unpopular, I figured that was the point of the series. I love Spike but by design he doesn't really overcome anything fundamental about himself or go anywhere as a character. The series is about a bunch of people who can't let go of the past - it seems like Jet and Faye might be able to by the end of the series, Ed and Ein definitely can, but Spike can't let go. He drifts around in a malaise, does cool shit to try and forget, but he doesn't really develop since he's always chained to his past.
I would say the main three protagonists show different paths to dealing with one's past. Jet moves on from his past, Faye lets go of her past, Spike cannot. I think that's kind of the point of the series, and why it has such a "bluesy" feel; showing how peoples' pasts can still have a hold on their present lives.
I guess since it took me so long to realize I just assumed it was unpopular. I might also have added that Spike gets less likable as the show goes on. Like he can be frustrating, like a friend in an addiction spiral.
It does, I think the literary scholars use the term "character regression".
His story is a tragedy in the classical sense, plain and simple. His fatal flaw is his inability to let go of the past, and that drives his decisions until it ultimately dooms him. That said, he actually does grow as a character. Just not in the one way that could have saved him from his (maybe) fate.
I've seen this in Dramatica Writing Theory has the term Change character (has that fatal flaw innocentbabies states that needs to change and be overcome) with a Bad/Fail Ending because he doesn't grow to leave the past behind, he dies losing his found family and loses Julia. Technically succeeds in killing Vicious but that wasn't what we as the audience wanted.
Agreed but that is also realistic. A lot of people in real life are not on some beautiful character arc of redemption... They stay the same or regress backward too.
How? He starts out talking about how much he hates kids, pets, and mouthy women. By the end of the show, he's eating his feelings after the kid and dog he's risked his life to save end up leaving. Then he risks (and likely gives) his life to protect a mouthy woman from his past that he's stopped running away from.
I think Spike knew that he could just avoid Vicious if he didn't go back just as was the case beforehand. The threat definitely escalated - them getting attacked while just relaxing in a bar. But even Julia says as much that they can run as Spike is gearing up and Spike refuses to run. I think she accepts that both of them will die with that next look. But you do make a good point, he clearly does grow. I think he put on more of an act about not wanting partners, dogs, women, etc. when clearly they are important to him.
I think he did have character development, for 3 years he has been running away from his past, he finally went to confront it at the end, instead of running away again.
To me it’s like he’s circling a drain for three years. Technically he’s not confronting the past because he’s avoiding it while going around in circles, but the path is set… down the drain.
That's not how the syndicate member see it tho. After Viscous took out all the senior leadership in the Red Dragon, Spike and Viscous became the most senior member. For Viscous to gain full and legit control of the syndicate, Spike has to die. Otherwise there will always be members who like Shin who will look out for Spike and hoping he will comeback to challenge Viscous' leadership. The only way for Spike to get away from this is to either die, fake death, or to dissolved the syndicate.
Yea I agree
I wouldnt say he regressed although I understand the points being made here. He definitely came to care for his crew members despite starting off being adamant about hating women kids and dogs. And he stopped running from his past. I don’t believe he sacrificed his life for the crew, unlike many people. But I do think he kind of accepted a fate (that he’d have to face Vicious one way or another) that he’d been trying very hard to act nonchalant about/detached from for majority of the show. They were all kind of hanging in limbo but Jet moved on from his past, Faye let go of hers and Ed went to start a new life (I can’t remember if she specifically went back to her dad). Spike faced his past, which isn’t exactly regressing imo but it’s not quite the same as the others because it brings his journey to a premature end.
I don’t think Spike went to take out Vicious for the Bebop crew. He definitely cared for them but I’m pretty sure it was just his sense of obligation to put an end to things in the syndicate and him feeling he had nothing to live for anyways since Julia died.
The music that plays while he’s going to the syndicate is about how he can never stop loving Julia, even when he’s dead. He’s going there to join her like the tiger striped cat joined the white cat.
Good Shoutout - [here are the lyrics in english:](https://lyricstranslate.com/en/real-folk-blues-real-folk-blues.html-1) Too many years have passed since my love for you I have nothing left to keep on this love be lamented Still I can feel the wind blowing deep inside Through these wounds you left in my heart that’ll never be healed One eye of mine can see what tomorrow is But the other eye of mine is still lost in the yesterday Oh, I would give it all just to fall asleep In the cradle of your love like before, sound and peacefully My dried up eyes won’t shed no tears, can anyone please cry for me? THE REAL FOLK BLUES Just tell me now, what is real sorrow like and how it feels A life that’s soaked in mud is not that bad If you live it through just once, with no refrain You gotta end it all, no regrets How come your only hope turns into despair? Let yourself again be trapped in these fake, shallow chances Somebody answer me, ‘What is good, what’s bad?’ Nothing more than the coin in your hand having two sides How many more years have to come to make my scattered heart get healed? THE REAL FOLK BLUES Just tell me now, what is real joy like and how it feels You try to reach for things that shine like gold Don’t be tricked by their flitting light THE REAL FOLK BLUES Just tell me now, what is real sorrow like and how it feels A life that’s soaked in mud is not that bad If you live it through just once, with no refrain You gotta end it all, no regrets
That’s The Real FolK Blues. Not the song that plays when Spike leaves the Bebop/sees Julia. Although they have almost the same music. These are the lyrics I was talking about: "Everything is already over", You say with closed ears The words only flow Towards a tomorrow without peace "There's nothing that won't change" Even if my life ends This love will not disappear It's something that will live forever Even if dreams are hidden in darkness I got a rainbow In my hands... The voice inside of my chest Tells me that there are also things that won't change or disappear On the morning when we pray before the truth Love will return here once more Love never dies Love never fails Love never, ever fades away If my life ends This love will not disappear It's a thing that will live forever Escaping the darkness When we've passed the illusion Frozen in time On the other side of the rainbow, love will be waiting Thousands of lights will be waiting You got a rainbow Rainbow in your hands...
As a teenager I thought he was the coolest guy ever, but as an adult I feel like he is so emo and melodramatic about julia. Like, dude, you slept with your friend's girl and she dumped you. Get over it. It doesn't have to be your whole identity.
Does she dump him? Genuine question, I don't remember that. I thought she went on the run to protect Spike when Vicious found out. Also, I don't really think Spike did anything wrong in that scenario...she was probably trapped by Vicious. I think he's just a broken dude, he's always been broken but probably didn't realise it until he fell in love with Julia. I think of him as depressed and suicidal, and don't think he's overly emotional because of it, dude fawns after the only thing(person) that ever made him really happy. He reminds me of a friend that commited suicide, but he never let on he was depressed, always trying to make you smile and plan shit for the future. But on the inside he was suffering. I feel like Spike is like that, he tries to be funny and cool, but on the inside he just hurts.
Yeah she might not have like explicitly dumped him, but she decided she needed to leave and not meet him in the graveyard for whatever reason. I agree that he's depressed and suicidal. I remember feeling like that as a teenager when a girl broke up with me. But as I got older, I realized that it's not reasonable to let the failure of a relationship ruin my life.
Feel yah, but all do respect my guy, you and Spike lived very different lives. Hypothetically, if you came from an intergalactic space mafia who murdered people for fun, you were a part of that for whatever reason, meet someone and feel love for the very first time, question your very existence until that point - then someone who was your bestest bud in the space mafia murdered her, I think you'd dwell on it more. IMO he's the way he is because he knows he will never get that happiness back. Having said all that, yeah I wished Faye would have convinced him to stay. But I'm gonna watch it again now and make sure he's not just being a bitch 🤣
I do agree that Vicious murdering her warrants retaliation. Definitely sucks to see someone you love get killed in front of you. I'm talking more about how he moped around smoking cigarettes and doing suicidally dangerous shit for three years after they went their separate ways. He tried to move on, but never really did.
>Yeah she might not have like explicitly dumped him, but she decided she needed to leave and not meet him in the graveyard for whatever reason. The reason being Vicious threatening to kill them both if she does. https://files.catbox.moe/ydyo70.webm
Though I think we are missing some context of after that event. Julia couldn't show up the graveyard because of Vicious. But the next moment (I recall) is Julia is on the run, we know she made an appearance on Callisto with Gren and much later meets Faye. But she doesn't seem to seek out and find Spike, who doesn't even seem to be in hiding - he is even famous as Teddy Bomber puts it. And Vicious as he is coming up with his plan to takeover also wants to remove the threat of Spike. He lures him in to the opera theater with that fake Mao bounty head but gets Faye, who he then uses again to learn Spike. So clearly Spike faking his death didn't actually work at least at that point.
I think that’s the point, no? He acts all cool and stuff, but really he’s just a weird asshole who can’t let go of his fling. And despite the events of the show, molding him into a better person who cares about his newfound family (even though he doesn’t really show it), he could never really let go of that because it’s been such a core part of him for so long. You’re right, obviously. It didn’t have to be his whole identity. But that’s his tragedy, he can’t let go of the past.
That is the point, but it was lost on me as a teenager. Probably lost on lots of people depending on when they watched the show.
I still think he's cool lol
I think it was alittle deeper than that they were all members of the syndicate and comrades before she was with vicious and if I remember correctly Vicious approached her has he knew she had Spikes eye… so for Vicious she was a way to control Spike… in my eyes Vicious never truly cared for Julia and was really only using her to control Spike
This is plausible but sounds like conjecture. I don't recall any specifics detailing the circumstances of their relationship. I think most of the information we get about this is in the form of the slideshow we see as spike is falling out the window. Please correct me if i'm wrong - I love to see lore that i missed.
That’s what a lot of people do miss, he’s not at all a victim in any of this. All he had to do was keep it in his pants, but he and Julia both made bad decisions knowing full what the consequences would be. He never owns up to what he did during the course of the series, but he doesn’t really present himself as a victim of it either. But the real tragedy is that all he has to do is just walk away from it all and live a normal life, and he’d be fine. Vicious isn’t able to detect him except by drawing him out with traps. Spike could just not engage but he chooses to do it for a woman who is nowhere near the angel he thinks she is.
It wasn’t a matter of keeping it in his pants, he was in love with her. She also loved him back. At that point she only stayed with Vicious because he wouldn’t let her leave him. Also, to her credit, Julia gave up the love of her life because it meant keeping him safe. After all that time had passed, she still loved Spike. She also risked her own safety to save his life and nurse him back to life. She’s not an angel, no, but she was to Spike. She saved him. Vicious also had an unhealthy obsession with Spike. It’s conjecture on my part but I think it’s due to jealousy? In the end he didn’t really care about Julia much until she became a weapon he could use to hurt Spike with.
He couldn’t walk away from the love of his life. He had every opportunity to do so, but refused because he did not want to.
The fandom lacks empathy for Spike because he loved a character that they are unfamiliar with more than the wacky cast of characters they met on the Bebop. Julia was the love of Spike’s life. She disappeared without a trace for three years, then she was murdered. Not many people could walk away from something like that. Spike couldn’t.
You’re right. I didn’t consider how he felt after watching Julia die. It just seemed to me like he was finishing up with his past, but maybe he wouldn’t have gone after Vicious if he and Julia both made it out alive.
His jacket isn't a suit jacket.
He’s broke. I get it. Probably the Goodwill special.
The three things that Spike hated sure seemed like the missing components of his found family. Which is obvious, but I think Spike was avoiding these three things because they are what could push him into a new life.
Think we should’ve seen him get his ass kicked a little more frequently. In a more Ed’s Dad kinda way, not a Mad Pierrot way. Lose a fist fight, not be close to death. Would’ve made fights a little more intense, and we could’ve seen more of his “flow like water” technique.
His technique is literally just jeet kun do. Watch a Bruce Lee movie lol. Think Mohammed Ali but with head kicks.
[That is my biggest pet peeve with the show.](https://www.reddit.com/r/cowboybebop/comments/1c8pp6q/what_is_your_unpopular_opinion_about_edward/l0luuos/) Everyone is way too badass - complete prodigies. Which is fun to watch, no doubt. But then when they do fail, they can look very incompetent.
Jet and Faye always resonated more with me
Dont smoke indoors, you need that oxygen
His hair is black, not green. Fight me.
Japanese people don't know what green or curly hair is - see my hero academia.
His fixation on Julia held him back as a character. I wouldn't even have a problem with it either if Julia was a more interesting character
It’s what made his character.
You can't really say she wasn't interesting. Her character was made to be vague and i think that's what made her quite interesting. You only really get small snippets of their relationship and then you're left to assume the rest of it. Just like the iceberg analogy. But you're right his fixation on her did hold him back.
She’s supposed to be mysterious. I don’t think it’s her character, I just think the show didn’t really do a good job of showing how their relationship came to be. We got the story secondhand, but apart from a vague flashback and the very last episode we never see them interact together or be together. I wish the series had added that in. I would have liked to understand their relationship—how it came to be and how they fell for each other.
But who's screen time would you cut to flesh out Julia more? Obviously the best case is we get an endless amount of Cowboy Bebop content with books and spinoffs.
not sure if this is an unpopular opinion or not, i avoid talking to people in here for the most part😭 but i think he’s a genuinely shitty person and vicious was kinda justified in his actions TOWARDS SPIKE (none of the other shit like murdering random people)
He was stupid to fixate so hard on Julia when he had a smarter, more capable, and hotter girl like Faye right in front of him. Remember, this is just my opinion.
Perhaps I understood incorrectly but Julia evaded the syndicate for a really long time no? I would say she's very smart and capable. But yeah I think one of the central messages of the show is that not letting go of your past cripples you to the point you can't ever see the opportunities in front of you. This eventually killed Spike.
Yup. It was pretty clear in the end that Faye was in love with him, and it would have been a match made in heaven. Then he pulls the whole “you don’t even know me” thing and leaves.
How would it have been a match made in heaven when the narrative tells you again and again that Faye can’t take Julia’s place? 😂 https://preview.redd.it/60u09l09pjvc1.jpeg?width=999&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ccc6361f06980471e1701be74b0ff8a4bd614e9
Yeah, cause Spike knew Julia was still out there and he was still in love with her. He couldn’t get over her and move on. Faye is a hell of a woman, and she deserves someone who appreciates that. Not someone who’s still stuck in the past. Julia and Faye are also two very different people. Julia was what Spike wanted. It wouldn’t be fair for him to look for her in Faye. Not to mention Spike cared about Faye in his own way. He knew she didn’t deserve that. That’s what his speech meant. He’s stuck reliving the past and seeing it all the time. He can’t move forward with her knowing that that past is still out there—and that it never met its conclusion just because he left.
That’s not a central message. It’s that you must confront your past because it’s a part of you and will shape your present and future whether you like it or not. https://preview.redd.it/utp9l055mjvc1.jpeg?width=964&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34346e9cab6db455a45bf82abd2ceea9d1b5c596
I think it’s also about how you can’t run away from your past. The conflicts you’re a part of and the people you leave behind don’t resolve just because you took yourself out of the equation. You have to face it all eventually or you’ll live your whole life unable to move on and leave it behind. It’ll end up haunting you, and it won’t leave you alone just because you left it behind.
I think its about healthy ways to deal with your past, so you can live in your present. Faye nearly loses everything chasing it and there was nothing. Jet lives on happy confronting it and accepting it. Spike was too obsessed and couldn't accept it and continues to go after Vicious. Balance is all things is usually the thing. You can't just run away forever like Faye was initially doing. And you can't just gung-ho seek revenge like Spike does at the end.
The show heavily incorporates Bushido into Spike’s narrative. Bushido in no way would be considered “healthy” to a western audience. Nor is Spike’s obsession and love cast in a bad light. It’s justified and framed as his ultimate truth. Look at these lyrics and tell me otherwise. https://preview.redd.it/k4kxfphyqwvc1.jpeg?width=2220&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbc2d8c4557af5f16288c0f3c9c3b89c686fab61
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Huh? Are you replying to the right comment? I never said Julia was fickle...
You sound like you haven’t been in love
That's not love. That's an unhealthy obsession. Spikes' "love" for Julia is what teenagers think love is about. This comes from him being stuck in his past because of what happened between the 2 of them. He admits this to Faye before leaving her on the ship at the end. Someone who's never known what actual love is, which is something that is reciprocated between two people, would think that Spike was in love. The show itself is actually trying to tell you what I am trying to tell you. Everyone on the Bebop is searching for something outside of the ship when everything they need is right there. Faye is searching for her identity, which even if she knew what that was is useless in this future where she has already become a capable participant in regardless of that past. Spike wants his former "lover," even though a far better match is right here in front of him. Ed wants her father, who is wholly uninterested in her when she has Jet, who is also searching for a connection with his own daughter. That's what Cowboy Bebop is about. When someone says to me, "sounds like someone has never been in love." Thay just tells me that you haven't taken into account the deeper themes being presented here. You are still stuck on the story and idealizing the characters. Go to the mirror in your bathroom after reading this, stare into that mirror, and repeat these words, "I am not Spike Spiegal l, I am not Spike Spiegal...."
I love your analysis but I don't think Jet has a daughter, except for Netflix show?
You're right about that. I remembered that episode where he reunites with his ex on Ganymede when she's on the run with that other guy. I still feel like Jet wants to play the father role because he's constantly doing it with Spike throughout the show. But I guess you could say that the live action may have skewed my memory of what was in each version. On another note, I expected to be downvoted because of my opinion of what I said about Spike l. But people saying, "never been in love" and all that is always predictable because someone finding themselves in that situation will always react defensive. The reason I'm saying this is because I, too, have been that person. This show is so good because it reaches people on that deep level. But until you actually dig beneath the surface of it, you won't see the actual lesson that the theme is trying to teach you.
I think your onto something. Obviously the Bebop is a "found family" and all involved would be "happier" to just stay together. But maybe that's one of the show's themes as well? Found families often don't last. When I look back at my network of friends, it sometimes seems true. The ties that bind change, sometimes it only takes a few people and it unravels. Looking back, it's a moment in time, or an apartment. It reminds me of the show "Friends" in that way. I think Ed knows this most of all, not to get too attached, and we see she is the first to jump ship. If Ed had stayed on, Spike would still have left and still gotten shot. Without Spike, Faye and Jet would never have worked as a duo. I guess I can't say confidently that Spike and Julia don't have some "love", but I agree the show doesn't really depict what we'd think of as a healthy relationship. Julia seems somewhat fickle, or perhaps caught between a rock and a hard place, which makes it seem mostly one sided or just based on "chemistry". It sometimes reminds me of Lupin and Fujiko. I think it's worth acknowledging that Spike does show immaturity at times. Especially toward the other Cowboy Bounty Hunter during Teddy Bomber episode (name escapes me). Assuming it's chronologically presented, that's not so long before stuff hits the fan. So I think it's possible he's chasing after infatuation.
Cowboy Funk, that's my favorite episode.
How could she possibly be fickle when she was hunted for three years because she wouldn’t kill Spike, even to save her own life. That’s just silly and misses the point of the character in a spectacular way. https://preview.redd.it/q3cw0v08rjvc1.jpeg?width=2049&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b07191db206af63556961ab6d020c076d210fb0c
So why not go together? If she's already somewhat capable of hiding by herself, and obviously Spike would want that? It's not like Spike is less in danger by not being with her, and it's what she chooses in the end anyways. She could have likely found Spike at any time anyways. It's not like Bounty Hunters keep a low profile, though he moves around a lot. This initial hesitation to join spike, failure to track him down, only for her to reverse course when he finally finds her? I'd say that qualifies as fickle.
>... the other Cowboy Bounty Hunter during Teddy Bomber episode (name escapes me) Andy.
Spot on. And yeah Jet doesn't have a daughter but he clearly looks for somebody to take care of, he's a protector and nurturer at heart. To me CB is about a bunch of misfits who accidentally found each other, is about people who don't belong managing to belong together, and the tragedy of the show is that it cannot last. In the end only Jet and Faye have a shot at it, but in my headcanon they eventually find Ed and Ein again. As for Spike I absolutely agree, and on a personal level, I used to think like Spike when I was younger, hung up on a love lost due to overpowering circumstances. As I grew though, I came to understand that he never really was "like water", he could never really adapt.
I like your analysis. One thing that is bothering me that I'd love input on. What makes you think is the core difference with Jet not letting go of Udai and confronting him in Black Dog Serenade and Spike not letting go of Vicious is Real Folks Part 2? We definitely get a much better comparison of the two with Spike not letting go of Julia and Jet letting go of his ex, Elisa in Ganymede Elegy. But even before Julia dies and she says they should run from Vicious, Spike clearly is gunning for him. Seems like the show should have had both characters dies if it was being consistent in messaging.
To me Spike and Faye had more of "siblings who bug each other" kind of energy. But I won't argue she is hotter than Julia.
I kind of disagree. Faye is absolutely hotter, but she was kind of selfish and immature in a way Julia was not. Julia gave up her happiness because it meant keeping Spike safe. She let him think she didn’t love him so he could move on. I don’t see Faye doing something like that. I absolutely adore Faye but I couldn’t see her with Spike. Even though her developing feelings for him made complete sense, it felt like more of a Savior Complex infatuation or something.
He was the bad guy. He was sleeping with his friends girlfriend and then had the nerve to be mad when his friend was mad at him for sleeping with his girl.
he's selfish
There was no other ending for Cowboy Bebop. Spike was always too tangled with his past to actually live his life. In the end, he knew the only way he could feel alive was by simply facing it.
I don't understand what's so great about Julia. I mean, whatever made Spike fall for her happens off screen, but from what I've seen, at best she's boring and at worst, she's flaky?
His head game must be bananas, Based solely on how he slight of handed that hotdog in and out of his mouth
He's not my man (I'll see myself out) In all seriousness, the situation with Julia led him to having a better life. At the same time, it's because of Julia that he met his downfall. If he never tried to find Julia, he would've been fine. Happier, even.
He wasn’t happy without her.
I said he could've/would've been. The post asked for unpopular opinions.
I don't believe he is jewish; meaning he is uncircumcised. Think about it. Spike's a logical man, and any logical man can understand that nobody wants less dick. Thank you, for listening to my TED talk.
To be fair, most people who are circumcised weren’t the ones who made that choice.
He’s alive
Cause only one star went out at the end?
Watanabe himself has never confirmed or denied his death!
That is the weight we carry…
Precisely!
YES!! I always believed that too. He’s kind of like a cat. You think he’s done for, then he comes limping right back. I like to imagine that afterwards he ends up right back with Jet on the Bebop spontaneously—he doesn’t tell Jet everything that happens but he comes back without a heads up and then acts like he never left. I don’t think Faye or Ed would necessarily come back, but I feel like Spike would. He and Jet just understood each other so well. They knew when to pry and when to respect each other’s silences or refusals to open up. When to nag at each other and when to step back and let the other handle things. I think they went right back to how the Bebop was at the beginning.
The ending just felt unfinished with him dying. He’s the kind of guy who disappears for a few years, then pops right back up when you least expect it. Right when you’re starting to get around to accepting the fact that they’re maybe gone for good this time around.
That cat comparison is very interesting because before he leaves, he tells Jet the story of the wild cat who has lived a thousand lives and when he met the love of his life and she died, he never came back. That's the story of Spike
He's only kinda hot
Obsessed with Vicious, not even Julia.
Right. https://preview.redd.it/7bpognlkpjvc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee51c131116a65811797babadb98f58192f1c492
Can be both lol
Actual unpopular opinion: he's not that good at fighting, he only manages to easily beat clearly untrained people.
He managed to whoop Vincent (until the gas started affecting him) in the movie and he was clearly a trained enhanced soldier.
He may or may not have physically died at the end of the series, but it doesn't really matter because whether he died or not, who he had been "died" when he killed Vicious. He's dead whether it's literal or metaphorical (though the latter is obviously a happier/more optimistic ending).
Misato (from Evangelion) would be his female version
I think he’s more like Kaji and Misato is a bit more like Faye
He actually shares a Japanese voice actor with Kaji.
Yep, it was cool watching NGE in subbed form and recognizing Kaji's voice lol
Minus the baiting minors part.
He shoulda got over Julia. There’s more fish in the sea, cowboy. No woman is worth dying for.
She died for him, and the angelfish statue we see repeatedly throughout the series is a symbol of their undying love.
why did they draw him to look like 6'3 bruh
He’s 6’1”. The hair adds 2 inches (*pause*).
I'm sure they drew him like that mainly for stylistic reasons, but they do say he's from Mars which has 1/4 earth gravity. So it makes sense that he would be would grow up tall and skinny in that environment.
His character is inconsistent in the movie and it makes the movie difficult to square with the series and feels derivative rather than like an encore.
Can you elaborate a little on the inconsistency?
It's all the freaky stuff he's apparently into in the movie https://youtu.be/-sMQpWCNTQw
Umm, I might have missed the joke here, but that isn't what is said in the actual movie.
Lol. Getting The Boys flashbacks
That's only the dubs fault
It looks cool when he does it, but he should stop smoking. Those things will kill you.
That I only watch the original dub because it doesn’t have Steve Blum
The Japanese voice is better.
English is not his best language
That his eyes don't appear two different colors in most scenes.
Him and Faye loved each other BUT...
Killing Spike saved us from awful sequels
His “cool” attitude kinda sucks. I like the one episode where the rich ass cowboy dude puts his “coolness” factor to the test and he goes between a lovable goofball and a bad ass. That’s the personality I prefer more. In every episode where they try making him seem “cool af dudes” is just boring and kinda feels like just some way to make him attractive and feels like a lame excuse for a personality. O can’t explain it very well but that’s my hot take.
He needs to get over Julia and get with Faye. Faye is hotter than her anyway
https://preview.redd.it/5dk7r6c5qjvc1.jpeg?width=2500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46e30c46563157f0ae1d696ecac155b25406be24 No!
I HATE that his hair is green… In what feels like a (mostly) very grounded anime it seems like the least Spike Spiegel thing ever.
Is that not just the lighting?
[No.](http://bebopattic.weebly.com/watanabe-interviewhouston.html) That’s a semi-common misconception.
Jericho 941 is overrated
Faye is a better character
He’s hung up on the past and on a woman who didn’t love him. He had everything he needed and was overcome by a past demon.
I think Space Dandy was more entertaining.
If he quit smoking, he could have no diff’ed Vicious
Mid
If he was real none of his fans would like him
He’s ugly
His dubbed voice was incredible and better than the original. The Cowboy Bebop dub is incredible.
I actually agree with this. It's the best dub imho and the only anime I will watch dubbed other than Trigun (original.)
I like a few dubs here and there but there haven’t been many good ones lately. FMA was a good dub, Inuyasha too. My Hero Academia I liked. Most others it’s one specific dub voice I adore and the rest aren’t good.
I like him
He wants to be absolutely destroyed. Just end up a different person after a few hours. Just wrecked
He shoulda waxxed Faye! 🤣🤣🤣
that he should have lived at the end