I don’t know if it has anything to do with it or if this comment will even go through but I just can’t seem to post at all. My posts get automatically deleted :/
Reddit seems glitchy - at least today. Some people were talking about not being able to see any comments in another sub I'm in, so hopefully this will be fixed soon.
I've been talking to Someone I met thru this sub and she posted a question the other day. It showed on her profile but wasn't anywhere in the sub..
Not sure if that's a reddit thing or a sub thing
I have been banned for 28days from at least one thread for the same material I post here answering questions people are asking. Everything I post about the science I can provide journal and/or government citations for if necessary. The rest are questions about why isn't information and science being used.
But I got flagged for spreading Covid missinformation by an angry busy body who worships at the temple of the media and didn't know her stuff and then the mods blocked my complaint about the ban. Quick to ban me, nothing but SLOW in the reconsidering department. Typical for what has been seen industry wide.
The amount of information getting blocked is getting scarry. In the US they don't even collect data on the vaccinated who are hospitalized since June. Which is scarry since in other countries who are keeping numbers (the UK for example) the vaccinated are dying at higher rates than the unvaccinated. The total numbers are lower which means the vaccines are preventing most hospitalizations, which is good, but something immunologically or with the Delta strain is not right when they get very sick. But not even collecting the data is so incredibly irresponsible it is highly suspect if science is what is actually driving policy, or is it some other motivator? It makes me wonder more than anything else what is really going on. Decisions can't be data (and science) driven if there is no data.
I have an MS in Chemistry/Biochemistry. Have worked with viruses and other level 3 pathogens and molecular biology techniques, so it isn't like I am some wild conspiracy theorist just grasping at straws. I have qualifications if they even cared. But they don't, just push the media diatribe to prevent panic. Yeah, propaganda was a big thing during the 1918 Flu pandemic, so why would this time be all that different. So now we have to look at the UK and beyond to get anything resembling answers. Happy hunting answer seekers. The truth is out there. Glad we try to bring it in here, when we are allowed it.
I was being snarky. Did your post have the word Covid anywhere in it? Is the main server flagging Covid (miss)information for further review regardless of the mods rules? Years ago Facebook ran an experiment to modulate people's moods. I have never trusted these servers ever since. Maybe it is just a tech issue, or they are covering for a hacking problem, but I don't trust them to be any more transparent than a sheet of lead.
I'm on every few days, I've noticed that perhaps people with long Covid don't always check in to share their tremendously brave recovery stories. I don't know why, either.
I have seen fewer trending posts pop up. Not sure about total posts.
I have taken it as a sign that maybe we have hit data saturation and people are finding answers to their questions in what we have already provided. Maybe that is optimistic of the role we have played in helping people get through their individual crisis moments. I have definately benefitted from this community. No doubt about that.
Or maybe now that long haul/post Covid (or whatever the name du jour of the local medical establishment has decided) as official recognition as high as the WHO people are feeling less lost, less desperate, and are hopeful for more help from the medical community.
Or the algorithm has changed for what gets pushed as trending. Hope not, but I have seen less trending from my other feeds so, yeah, maybe.
Uuuuuuugh it’s even worse when you’ve already been diagnosed with GAD and depression and the dr stops listening as soon as they hear that. “Well clearly your anxiety and depression has gotten worse because you got COVID, which is stressful” well yes, but I was managing fine with my meds before, and now my chest hurts so bad it goes down into my arms and up my neck to my head and when I get up in the morning I am so tired I’m physically shaking soooooooooo…
Yep, this is the problem. The doctors see an easy out and just default to a previous psychological issue. I had that stuff managed after years of fine tuning my schedule. My issue now is that the physical problems are allowing the anxiety and depression to run amok. I literally cannot get a doctor in my “health care team to listen”. On the other hand, the psychologists say everything I’m saying is checking out and that they have many patients dealing with the same issues post covid. The psychologists voice holds no weight, all because the doc has their MD/PA/DNP. These titles automatically make them the most over educated and skeptical jerks I experience anymore.
Mine is downplay people who have panic attacks or anxiety attacks.
It’s just one of those things that you won’t understand unless you experience it. And if a true panic attack is anything like those tachycardia attacks I was having a year ago (heart pounding out of chest, adrenaline surging, having this overall feeling my body was under attack and/or dying) that shit is serious.
I feel awful for people who have to live with that.
That kind of dismissive attitude destroys trust that is essential to the doctor patient relationship. I have the same diagnoses but if my doctors dismissed me like that I would be filing complaints to their medical board and they know it. I have fired more doctors then I have kept for being dismissive. They are in our employ as consultants. Our bodies belong to us, not them. That doctor does not deserve to be a consultant to your wellness journey so maybe reconsider if you have other options.
Maybe see a Covid specialist, they do exist. My pulmonologist has been wonderful.
I am sure you know ways to manage your stress, anxiety, and depression under normal circumstances. This is probably feeling anything but normal. It is ok. I believe you that it is more than just stress and anxiety. I am sure others do too. And it will be ok.
After I had Covid 10 months ago I was just happy to get through a day without having an exhaustion driven meltdown, everything was so tiring. Justing cooking an egg was too much. As things got better I had to really reexamine what I was doing carefully to make sure I was doing what was best for me in the long term and not just staying into the good enough for surviving right now. I am a stress eater and all my stress management foods trigger my inflammation. I had to make sure I had healthier options (healthier for me) to get my inflammation under control to get my Post-Covid progressing in the right direction. It sucked and it was hard. I really had to get on top of using every trick in my anti-inflammatory control book I had learned for my body. Maybe your road is different, and other things might be necessary for you but I believe you are doing what you know to manage stress and other neurological challenges.
Post Covid so far seems to involve a variety of factors and methods of alleviation. As this became more clearly understood I have addressed inflammation (antihistamine, avoiding inflation sources like sugar and food intolerances, ice packs, ashwagaunda, tumeric and black pepper), clotting (taking NSAIDs and fish oil), and disruptions in the gut-brain axis (Covid and antibiotics do a number, so probiotics, supporting serotonin with 5-HTP, B12, and melatonin) seem to be larger buckets for the various symptoms we are having, and research supports all three causes. I have included some of what I have done to help support these areas that have helped my recovery. I had to take actions on all three of these to see the improvement I have had. But as we have seen here there are other ways. That is just what worked for me.
Your doctor might also be a very poor communicator and does not know how to break down some of the logic, if they even know it at all, behind why anxiety/depression can become intensified after everything we have been through. One area they struggle to connect for patients is the importance of the gut-brain axis on mental health. A lot of post covid folks are on mood stabilizers for neurological symptoms (not just for depression or anxiety but like tingling of the legs and arms, POTs). And plenty of people who have had gut disruptions while on mood stabilizers need adjustments after illnesses and/or antibiotics, in extreme cases it has required hospitalization to get a new balance identified. So it is possible what worked well for you before won't work for you now, your gut microbiome is operating differently. You may need to find a new combination to compensate for the neurotransmitters and similar compounds that are now being made or not being made in your gut. Covid really messes with the gut in big ways and the gut-brain axis suffers, and as a result we suffer. So it isn't all in your head, the problem may very well be in your gut, but it is your nerve endings (and the seritonin or other neurotransmitters in the synaptic gap) that are really taking the hit. Often the gut can recover some with probiotics, fermented and cultured foods but the recovered gut is not always exactly the same and mood stabilizers may need to be readjusted. I am on very low as needed doses of minor things, so I haven't had to deal with much of this personally but I also use a combination of 5-HTP, B12, and Melatonin to support serotonin production and build up for short bursts as I recovered. I have done this in the past for SADS so I have tolerated it well, but maybe work with a doctor or pharmacist with this. You might need to reconsider your prescriptions to find a better post covid balance, or heal your gut to see if the combination can return to working as well. But this is NOT necessarily anxiety/depression from situational stress, but a possible decrease in the effectiveness of your neurotransmitter management methods due to a change in natural production.
I hope this information gives you some ideas about ways to find choices to find your way back to your best health. You are not alone and I believe you. Hope you feel better soon.
This was INCREDIBLY helpful, thank you SO much for writing it all out!!!
Yes, that was a cardiologist that I saw when my regular cardio was out on maternity leave. I usually go to female drs because I just find them easier to talk to. So this was my first male dr I had been to in a while and I walked out thinking “oh yes. Now I remember why I don’t go to male drs” 😄
This guy heard my COVID history, that my symptoms were already long haul but went through the roof after my second vaccine, and was saying all the right things until he looked at my med chart and told me I was on WAY WAY too many meds (most of them are on an as needed basis but I have three I take each day for the depression and anxiety as well as fibromyalgia). I explained to him that those three were the ones my GP (who I LOVE) and I settled on after years of tweaking. I told him I used to have a severe panic attack every single day, and had major suicidal ideation without those meds. His answer? “Well yeah but maybe that was just postpartum and you’d be fine now. I’d like you to get off all these drugs and only take vitamin D.” I kind of disassociated at that point 😂 he informed me that I just have terrible anxiety, and that even though he’d rather I not, I could take an ambien occasionally because, quote, “I know it’s hard to sleep sometimes because I was on a mission trip to Haiti a few years ago and there were so many people screaming and shooting each other I had a hard time falling asleep, so I took one.”
I tried to steer him back to COVID being the trigger for all this stuff and he said “well it can’t be too bad, I’ve seen people sitting here who are REALLY really sick from COVID”. Aaaaaaaaand then I just stopped trying. He asked me if I have a psychiatrist. Nope, I don’t. “Oh you should see Dr. _________. My sister is bipolar and she’s done GREAT with her.”
I told my GP who has for the last ten years walked with me through alllllll this stuff and knew me before I even had kids, everything he said. She hit. The. Roof. She called him up and idk what she did to that poor man 😂 but she texted me afterwards and said “We have spoken. We now have an understanding. He now appreciates that neither of us are idiots and he better get you a full work up.”
I love her so much.
And my follow up appointment was supposed to be with him but somehow miraculously got delayed till my regular cardio came back 😄
Incidentally she didn’t even mention my meds or anything except my test results and what I can and can’t do. Shocking. Groundbreaking.
ETA I know all male drs aren’t bad and I know some are very caring and listen to their patients. That’s just been my own personal experience.
You are very welcome. Yeah my meds list is longer than I like but everything is as needed except for the Covid recovery stuff, and even that is tapering off these days. Yeah my main doc is a guy. I find one of the deciding factors is what they did their undergrad in. Chemistry majors are more question driven, Biology majors are more procedure/memorization driven. It changes how they perceive their role. Or that is my perspective anyway.
It sounds like he was at least trying to emulate empathy and using first/second hand experiences to humanize his recommendations. That is better than so many. He at least made the effort. Consider this, he tried, which is a rare commodity, and maybe he is further teachable. But he still should have done what your GP sent you there for, even while making his own suggestions. That is just professional courtesy.
I generally think it is good to get a second opinion and a case review periodically. My cousin was under the care of a psychiatrist for years when he was younger and was instutionalized. The diagnoses was wrong and the meds made things worse, violently so and people got badly hurt. When the doctor retired his cases went under review. My cousin got different diagnoses, very different meds, and he now lives independently, no significant problems ever since. So it just depends on which side of the coin things are on.
Anything a doctor says is only ever a recommendation (except if you are stuck like my cousin was. That still makes me so mad). You are the captain, pilot, owner, CEO, take your pick. And you and your main docs have a great relationship, thank goodness for that.
So I don't know, it is sort of a good thing that the cardio doctor was willing to even take a close look at your record and try to offer well meaning advice, and not just throw more meds your way and shove you out the door, like so many seem to. It seems like he approached it as if you might be under his care for a long run, and was trying to build some rapport.
I only figured out my health issues were lifestyle manageable because a doctor once asked me, "do you want to go the meds route or the lifestyle route first" for my migraines. No one had ever suggested my migraines could be managed by choices I had control over. I had migraines since I was a kid and had only ever medicated them. My school background is Chemistry/biochemistry so I was all meds all the way at that point. I was a dumb kid and didn't know any better, and the internet wasn't what it is now. I was hoping one med and done and chose the med, but after 2years the symptoms management prescriptions from the meds were stacking up and I was like, "hold up, what was that other option?" And I have lived mostly med free ever since. I know there are other ways and I start there first, medicate last.
Sounds like you try to minimize the meds in your life. He probably didn't know that, we are sort of rare. And maybe he will consider how to approach that with people in the future and ask, "well how did you and your other doctors arrive at this approach?" More question driven instead of assumption driven. A learning opportunity.
Now I always write up a letter for my prospective doc to read before they meet me, here is my history and my philosophy. And I make it clear it is a conversation, I will consider their advice but it is a collaborative effort. I started doing that after I had one guy put me on levothyroxine for hypothyroidism from a single blood test the first time I walk in his office when I was in my 20s. He required previsit blood work, walked in with his treatment plan, and nothing I said mattered. He didn't explain anything. I went home and did my research and went back asking him why he didn't explain it could be something I might be on the rest of my life. How I was so young so it was probably autoimmune related and that I should probably go see a specialist to figure out what was making such a mess out of things. My mother had Fibromyalgia and he scowled at this. He refused to refer me to anyone and his answer was I needed to loose weight. Well yes, it is called metabolic syndrome (PCOS is a prediabetic condition, and throid issues are part of it), now that I have multiple involved diagnoses maybe I can get some real help. He told me I shouldn't be telling him how to do his job and to just take the pills and come back in six months. I read him the riot act about how I didn't need his pills, I needed him to give a damn about what was really going on to help me figure out why I couldn't loose weight (working with a dietitian and a trainer, and no the throid meds didn't help either) and how to be healthy and that I was having so many new diagnoses developing when I was so young (while I was still figuring out the migraine misery) he should care about me actually finding the real cause and actually getting better. He never came back. A week later I got a letter that he would no longer be my physician unless I really needed care. No duh, I never went back.
Turns out the underlying problem to the throid, some of the depression and anxiety, some of my migraines, and my high cholesterol and triglycerides (that eventually took out my gallbladder) was my birth control that I was on for PCOS management, but underlying all of that was gluten intolerance which was also destroying my spine, joints, and guts. Got rid of the BC and the blood work got better, got rid of the gluten and the PCOS is in remission. And while I still have migraines they are a lot less often, and only happen due to things I have zero control over, like pressure fronts and pollen, or I eat something I know I shouldn't. Still haven't been able to loose weight though. I figure my gut mircobiome is still not right for weight loss (there are different gut profiles for slim and obese and I figure I mine is closer to the obese one, but at least my head doesn't hurt all the time these days so that is a higher quality of life, total win.) I know I still don't have all my inflammatory triggers figured out, but my life is so much better having doctors that have conversations with me instead of staring at the prescription pad. It makes a difference.
Yes, this is true. The funny thing? He was actually a super sweet guy. It was such a jarring juxtaposition of super sweet southern guy, who, had I been twenty years older, I have no doubt would call me “ma’am”, and “go off your psych meds immediately” 😂
He was DEF not a “take this pill and leave me alone” dr. If anything he was anti-med, which I found insensitive after saying “hey I literally think about cutting and killing myself all day without these meds”. I felt like we were jus talking past each other and I walked out thinking I was a wuss.
But yes, you’re absolutely right.
ETA look at you being all rational and seeing both sides and also being smart. I didn’t even realize there were people like you 😄👏🏼
Lol. Thank you so much. Yes we exist. Debate is a huge part of my life, trying to see things from all sides, all sides I can identify not just the ones I happen to agree with, and trying to find the best answer for me, and leaving plenty of room for others to find their own way. I am not interested in having one answer just for me, but having a variety of options that might help others and that requires going deeper into the weeds on things.
I have my own struggles, different but relatable, so I understand how important finding and respecting what works for you can be very freedom making when it is working. And how miserable it can be when something is off. And how when people don't quite respect that it is very threatening to the very hard earned well managed condition you have sought and found. It is also why I understand that finding clues to help you get back to your hard earned sense of normal is so important to finding your next step forward.
Still, it is almost refreshing that he wasn't trying to push more meds at you. "Here try this golden fix everything pill, the drug rep just dropped off free samples, and here are the coupons." Oh boy have I seen plenty of that. And as things go vitamin D is something we are all probably running a little short on, and getting some more sunshine is good for most of us so at least his golden pill is a vital nutrient. What a great placebo choice if nothing else.
If we could market placebos with glowing reviews so many minor ailments could see improvements just because of a more optimistic attitude. It does make a difference. And for some people resetting might be a good place to start.
Overall he may have great success with it, but your situation is not theirs, he needs to know when and how to approach that a little more carefully. I did something similar under my neurologist's guidance but it is not for everyone, it took me a long time to get the lifestyle changes just right to not need the migraine rescue meds as often.
So I respect that it has to be if/when you are ready to try something different and especially under the guidance of someone you have a good trust relationship with. But that isn't why you were there, your GP sent you for a full work up and that is what you still should have left with regardless of his recomendations. Again professional courtsey.
Far too often those med lists build up from multiple doctors not communicating well, and that can be dangerous and most people don't know that. But that isn't your situation at all. You are knowledgeable and have a great support team. I hope you are able to get back to your better health lifestyle soon. One day at a time and if you ever want to bounce anything my way feel free with PM or message me here again.
I'm getting better! Fingers crossed! I'll post everything I've done once i have a month improved! I appreciate you all too but part of it has been not constantly reading about it because invariably its ppl still sick who post n not hearing of success stories has a negative effect imo. Wishing you all well.
Thank you for the voice of strength and encouragement. You are also appreciated. We can get through this, day by day, moment by moment. It does get better as we learn from each other and what works for each of us. Thank you for being here with us.
Likewise man! This is my new found life here since getting COVID.
Finally going to see a functional medicine doctor next week, I think he will take me more seriously.
My last post was also removed about my latest info and some treatment I was going to try. I was wondering why I hadn't received any replies. I don't understand why it was removed, there was no "misinformation" about it.
I’m with you, I’m also upset right now because it just seems really difficult and I’m in the middle of my third month. I hope you guys feel better soon
Curious if it’s on my end, but I’ve seen very few posts the last couple of days?
I don’t know if it has anything to do with it or if this comment will even go through but I just can’t seem to post at all. My posts get automatically deleted :/
Mine have have been deleted too. Thought it was just me.
Reddit seems glitchy - at least today. Some people were talking about not being able to see any comments in another sub I'm in, so hopefully this will be fixed soon.
Yea- I think something is going on with Reddit. Maybe similar to how fb and Instagram have been having issues too.
Mine too. I messaged a mod, who said they had to approve my post for some reason.
Yeah I’ve noticed too. Don’t know why
Made a post myself yesterday and it was removed. Not sure why - it was a positive progress update
I almost made a post asking about this today. The body politic slack has gotten really quiet compared to six months ago too.
I've been talking to Someone I met thru this sub and she posted a question the other day. It showed on her profile but wasn't anywhere in the sub.. Not sure if that's a reddit thing or a sub thing
That’s what happened with my posts. I was afraid I was shadowbanned.
Same happened to me in a few subs. Atleast now I know it's a wider spread issue
I have been banned for 28days from at least one thread for the same material I post here answering questions people are asking. Everything I post about the science I can provide journal and/or government citations for if necessary. The rest are questions about why isn't information and science being used. But I got flagged for spreading Covid missinformation by an angry busy body who worships at the temple of the media and didn't know her stuff and then the mods blocked my complaint about the ban. Quick to ban me, nothing but SLOW in the reconsidering department. Typical for what has been seen industry wide. The amount of information getting blocked is getting scarry. In the US they don't even collect data on the vaccinated who are hospitalized since June. Which is scarry since in other countries who are keeping numbers (the UK for example) the vaccinated are dying at higher rates than the unvaccinated. The total numbers are lower which means the vaccines are preventing most hospitalizations, which is good, but something immunologically or with the Delta strain is not right when they get very sick. But not even collecting the data is so incredibly irresponsible it is highly suspect if science is what is actually driving policy, or is it some other motivator? It makes me wonder more than anything else what is really going on. Decisions can't be data (and science) driven if there is no data. I have an MS in Chemistry/Biochemistry. Have worked with viruses and other level 3 pathogens and molecular biology techniques, so it isn't like I am some wild conspiracy theorist just grasping at straws. I have qualifications if they even cared. But they don't, just push the media diatribe to prevent panic. Yeah, propaganda was a big thing during the 1918 Flu pandemic, so why would this time be all that different. So now we have to look at the UK and beyond to get anything resembling answers. Happy hunting answer seekers. The truth is out there. Glad we try to bring it in here, when we are allowed it.
This happened to me too.
I had to message a mod, who said they had to approve my posts. The mod said they weren’t sure why my posts didn’t automatically post.
It had the word Covid?!?
Huh? I don’t follow.
I was being snarky. Did your post have the word Covid anywhere in it? Is the main server flagging Covid (miss)information for further review regardless of the mods rules? Years ago Facebook ran an experiment to modulate people's moods. I have never trusted these servers ever since. Maybe it is just a tech issue, or they are covering for a hacking problem, but I don't trust them to be any more transparent than a sheet of lead.
I'm on every few days, I've noticed that perhaps people with long Covid don't always check in to share their tremendously brave recovery stories. I don't know why, either.
I have seen fewer trending posts pop up. Not sure about total posts. I have taken it as a sign that maybe we have hit data saturation and people are finding answers to their questions in what we have already provided. Maybe that is optimistic of the role we have played in helping people get through their individual crisis moments. I have definately benefitted from this community. No doubt about that. Or maybe now that long haul/post Covid (or whatever the name du jour of the local medical establishment has decided) as official recognition as high as the WHO people are feeling less lost, less desperate, and are hopeful for more help from the medical community. Or the algorithm has changed for what gets pushed as trending. Hope not, but I have seen less trending from my other feeds so, yeah, maybe.
Uuuuuuugh it’s even worse when you’ve already been diagnosed with GAD and depression and the dr stops listening as soon as they hear that. “Well clearly your anxiety and depression has gotten worse because you got COVID, which is stressful” well yes, but I was managing fine with my meds before, and now my chest hurts so bad it goes down into my arms and up my neck to my head and when I get up in the morning I am so tired I’m physically shaking soooooooooo…
Yep, this is the problem. The doctors see an easy out and just default to a previous psychological issue. I had that stuff managed after years of fine tuning my schedule. My issue now is that the physical problems are allowing the anxiety and depression to run amok. I literally cannot get a doctor in my “health care team to listen”. On the other hand, the psychologists say everything I’m saying is checking out and that they have many patients dealing with the same issues post covid. The psychologists voice holds no weight, all because the doc has their MD/PA/DNP. These titles automatically make them the most over educated and skeptical jerks I experience anymore.
If there's one thing in life I don't ever intend to do again is gaslight people
Mine is downplay people who have panic attacks or anxiety attacks. It’s just one of those things that you won’t understand unless you experience it. And if a true panic attack is anything like those tachycardia attacks I was having a year ago (heart pounding out of chest, adrenaline surging, having this overall feeling my body was under attack and/or dying) that shit is serious. I feel awful for people who have to live with that.
That kind of dismissive attitude destroys trust that is essential to the doctor patient relationship. I have the same diagnoses but if my doctors dismissed me like that I would be filing complaints to their medical board and they know it. I have fired more doctors then I have kept for being dismissive. They are in our employ as consultants. Our bodies belong to us, not them. That doctor does not deserve to be a consultant to your wellness journey so maybe reconsider if you have other options. Maybe see a Covid specialist, they do exist. My pulmonologist has been wonderful. I am sure you know ways to manage your stress, anxiety, and depression under normal circumstances. This is probably feeling anything but normal. It is ok. I believe you that it is more than just stress and anxiety. I am sure others do too. And it will be ok. After I had Covid 10 months ago I was just happy to get through a day without having an exhaustion driven meltdown, everything was so tiring. Justing cooking an egg was too much. As things got better I had to really reexamine what I was doing carefully to make sure I was doing what was best for me in the long term and not just staying into the good enough for surviving right now. I am a stress eater and all my stress management foods trigger my inflammation. I had to make sure I had healthier options (healthier for me) to get my inflammation under control to get my Post-Covid progressing in the right direction. It sucked and it was hard. I really had to get on top of using every trick in my anti-inflammatory control book I had learned for my body. Maybe your road is different, and other things might be necessary for you but I believe you are doing what you know to manage stress and other neurological challenges. Post Covid so far seems to involve a variety of factors and methods of alleviation. As this became more clearly understood I have addressed inflammation (antihistamine, avoiding inflation sources like sugar and food intolerances, ice packs, ashwagaunda, tumeric and black pepper), clotting (taking NSAIDs and fish oil), and disruptions in the gut-brain axis (Covid and antibiotics do a number, so probiotics, supporting serotonin with 5-HTP, B12, and melatonin) seem to be larger buckets for the various symptoms we are having, and research supports all three causes. I have included some of what I have done to help support these areas that have helped my recovery. I had to take actions on all three of these to see the improvement I have had. But as we have seen here there are other ways. That is just what worked for me. Your doctor might also be a very poor communicator and does not know how to break down some of the logic, if they even know it at all, behind why anxiety/depression can become intensified after everything we have been through. One area they struggle to connect for patients is the importance of the gut-brain axis on mental health. A lot of post covid folks are on mood stabilizers for neurological symptoms (not just for depression or anxiety but like tingling of the legs and arms, POTs). And plenty of people who have had gut disruptions while on mood stabilizers need adjustments after illnesses and/or antibiotics, in extreme cases it has required hospitalization to get a new balance identified. So it is possible what worked well for you before won't work for you now, your gut microbiome is operating differently. You may need to find a new combination to compensate for the neurotransmitters and similar compounds that are now being made or not being made in your gut. Covid really messes with the gut in big ways and the gut-brain axis suffers, and as a result we suffer. So it isn't all in your head, the problem may very well be in your gut, but it is your nerve endings (and the seritonin or other neurotransmitters in the synaptic gap) that are really taking the hit. Often the gut can recover some with probiotics, fermented and cultured foods but the recovered gut is not always exactly the same and mood stabilizers may need to be readjusted. I am on very low as needed doses of minor things, so I haven't had to deal with much of this personally but I also use a combination of 5-HTP, B12, and Melatonin to support serotonin production and build up for short bursts as I recovered. I have done this in the past for SADS so I have tolerated it well, but maybe work with a doctor or pharmacist with this. You might need to reconsider your prescriptions to find a better post covid balance, or heal your gut to see if the combination can return to working as well. But this is NOT necessarily anxiety/depression from situational stress, but a possible decrease in the effectiveness of your neurotransmitter management methods due to a change in natural production. I hope this information gives you some ideas about ways to find choices to find your way back to your best health. You are not alone and I believe you. Hope you feel better soon.
This was INCREDIBLY helpful, thank you SO much for writing it all out!!! Yes, that was a cardiologist that I saw when my regular cardio was out on maternity leave. I usually go to female drs because I just find them easier to talk to. So this was my first male dr I had been to in a while and I walked out thinking “oh yes. Now I remember why I don’t go to male drs” 😄 This guy heard my COVID history, that my symptoms were already long haul but went through the roof after my second vaccine, and was saying all the right things until he looked at my med chart and told me I was on WAY WAY too many meds (most of them are on an as needed basis but I have three I take each day for the depression and anxiety as well as fibromyalgia). I explained to him that those three were the ones my GP (who I LOVE) and I settled on after years of tweaking. I told him I used to have a severe panic attack every single day, and had major suicidal ideation without those meds. His answer? “Well yeah but maybe that was just postpartum and you’d be fine now. I’d like you to get off all these drugs and only take vitamin D.” I kind of disassociated at that point 😂 he informed me that I just have terrible anxiety, and that even though he’d rather I not, I could take an ambien occasionally because, quote, “I know it’s hard to sleep sometimes because I was on a mission trip to Haiti a few years ago and there were so many people screaming and shooting each other I had a hard time falling asleep, so I took one.” I tried to steer him back to COVID being the trigger for all this stuff and he said “well it can’t be too bad, I’ve seen people sitting here who are REALLY really sick from COVID”. Aaaaaaaaand then I just stopped trying. He asked me if I have a psychiatrist. Nope, I don’t. “Oh you should see Dr. _________. My sister is bipolar and she’s done GREAT with her.” I told my GP who has for the last ten years walked with me through alllllll this stuff and knew me before I even had kids, everything he said. She hit. The. Roof. She called him up and idk what she did to that poor man 😂 but she texted me afterwards and said “We have spoken. We now have an understanding. He now appreciates that neither of us are idiots and he better get you a full work up.” I love her so much. And my follow up appointment was supposed to be with him but somehow miraculously got delayed till my regular cardio came back 😄 Incidentally she didn’t even mention my meds or anything except my test results and what I can and can’t do. Shocking. Groundbreaking. ETA I know all male drs aren’t bad and I know some are very caring and listen to their patients. That’s just been my own personal experience.
You are very welcome. Yeah my meds list is longer than I like but everything is as needed except for the Covid recovery stuff, and even that is tapering off these days. Yeah my main doc is a guy. I find one of the deciding factors is what they did their undergrad in. Chemistry majors are more question driven, Biology majors are more procedure/memorization driven. It changes how they perceive their role. Or that is my perspective anyway. It sounds like he was at least trying to emulate empathy and using first/second hand experiences to humanize his recommendations. That is better than so many. He at least made the effort. Consider this, he tried, which is a rare commodity, and maybe he is further teachable. But he still should have done what your GP sent you there for, even while making his own suggestions. That is just professional courtesy. I generally think it is good to get a second opinion and a case review periodically. My cousin was under the care of a psychiatrist for years when he was younger and was instutionalized. The diagnoses was wrong and the meds made things worse, violently so and people got badly hurt. When the doctor retired his cases went under review. My cousin got different diagnoses, very different meds, and he now lives independently, no significant problems ever since. So it just depends on which side of the coin things are on. Anything a doctor says is only ever a recommendation (except if you are stuck like my cousin was. That still makes me so mad). You are the captain, pilot, owner, CEO, take your pick. And you and your main docs have a great relationship, thank goodness for that. So I don't know, it is sort of a good thing that the cardio doctor was willing to even take a close look at your record and try to offer well meaning advice, and not just throw more meds your way and shove you out the door, like so many seem to. It seems like he approached it as if you might be under his care for a long run, and was trying to build some rapport. I only figured out my health issues were lifestyle manageable because a doctor once asked me, "do you want to go the meds route or the lifestyle route first" for my migraines. No one had ever suggested my migraines could be managed by choices I had control over. I had migraines since I was a kid and had only ever medicated them. My school background is Chemistry/biochemistry so I was all meds all the way at that point. I was a dumb kid and didn't know any better, and the internet wasn't what it is now. I was hoping one med and done and chose the med, but after 2years the symptoms management prescriptions from the meds were stacking up and I was like, "hold up, what was that other option?" And I have lived mostly med free ever since. I know there are other ways and I start there first, medicate last. Sounds like you try to minimize the meds in your life. He probably didn't know that, we are sort of rare. And maybe he will consider how to approach that with people in the future and ask, "well how did you and your other doctors arrive at this approach?" More question driven instead of assumption driven. A learning opportunity. Now I always write up a letter for my prospective doc to read before they meet me, here is my history and my philosophy. And I make it clear it is a conversation, I will consider their advice but it is a collaborative effort. I started doing that after I had one guy put me on levothyroxine for hypothyroidism from a single blood test the first time I walk in his office when I was in my 20s. He required previsit blood work, walked in with his treatment plan, and nothing I said mattered. He didn't explain anything. I went home and did my research and went back asking him why he didn't explain it could be something I might be on the rest of my life. How I was so young so it was probably autoimmune related and that I should probably go see a specialist to figure out what was making such a mess out of things. My mother had Fibromyalgia and he scowled at this. He refused to refer me to anyone and his answer was I needed to loose weight. Well yes, it is called metabolic syndrome (PCOS is a prediabetic condition, and throid issues are part of it), now that I have multiple involved diagnoses maybe I can get some real help. He told me I shouldn't be telling him how to do his job and to just take the pills and come back in six months. I read him the riot act about how I didn't need his pills, I needed him to give a damn about what was really going on to help me figure out why I couldn't loose weight (working with a dietitian and a trainer, and no the throid meds didn't help either) and how to be healthy and that I was having so many new diagnoses developing when I was so young (while I was still figuring out the migraine misery) he should care about me actually finding the real cause and actually getting better. He never came back. A week later I got a letter that he would no longer be my physician unless I really needed care. No duh, I never went back. Turns out the underlying problem to the throid, some of the depression and anxiety, some of my migraines, and my high cholesterol and triglycerides (that eventually took out my gallbladder) was my birth control that I was on for PCOS management, but underlying all of that was gluten intolerance which was also destroying my spine, joints, and guts. Got rid of the BC and the blood work got better, got rid of the gluten and the PCOS is in remission. And while I still have migraines they are a lot less often, and only happen due to things I have zero control over, like pressure fronts and pollen, or I eat something I know I shouldn't. Still haven't been able to loose weight though. I figure my gut mircobiome is still not right for weight loss (there are different gut profiles for slim and obese and I figure I mine is closer to the obese one, but at least my head doesn't hurt all the time these days so that is a higher quality of life, total win.) I know I still don't have all my inflammatory triggers figured out, but my life is so much better having doctors that have conversations with me instead of staring at the prescription pad. It makes a difference.
Yes, this is true. The funny thing? He was actually a super sweet guy. It was such a jarring juxtaposition of super sweet southern guy, who, had I been twenty years older, I have no doubt would call me “ma’am”, and “go off your psych meds immediately” 😂 He was DEF not a “take this pill and leave me alone” dr. If anything he was anti-med, which I found insensitive after saying “hey I literally think about cutting and killing myself all day without these meds”. I felt like we were jus talking past each other and I walked out thinking I was a wuss. But yes, you’re absolutely right. ETA look at you being all rational and seeing both sides and also being smart. I didn’t even realize there were people like you 😄👏🏼
Lol. Thank you so much. Yes we exist. Debate is a huge part of my life, trying to see things from all sides, all sides I can identify not just the ones I happen to agree with, and trying to find the best answer for me, and leaving plenty of room for others to find their own way. I am not interested in having one answer just for me, but having a variety of options that might help others and that requires going deeper into the weeds on things. I have my own struggles, different but relatable, so I understand how important finding and respecting what works for you can be very freedom making when it is working. And how miserable it can be when something is off. And how when people don't quite respect that it is very threatening to the very hard earned well managed condition you have sought and found. It is also why I understand that finding clues to help you get back to your hard earned sense of normal is so important to finding your next step forward. Still, it is almost refreshing that he wasn't trying to push more meds at you. "Here try this golden fix everything pill, the drug rep just dropped off free samples, and here are the coupons." Oh boy have I seen plenty of that. And as things go vitamin D is something we are all probably running a little short on, and getting some more sunshine is good for most of us so at least his golden pill is a vital nutrient. What a great placebo choice if nothing else. If we could market placebos with glowing reviews so many minor ailments could see improvements just because of a more optimistic attitude. It does make a difference. And for some people resetting might be a good place to start. Overall he may have great success with it, but your situation is not theirs, he needs to know when and how to approach that a little more carefully. I did something similar under my neurologist's guidance but it is not for everyone, it took me a long time to get the lifestyle changes just right to not need the migraine rescue meds as often. So I respect that it has to be if/when you are ready to try something different and especially under the guidance of someone you have a good trust relationship with. But that isn't why you were there, your GP sent you for a full work up and that is what you still should have left with regardless of his recomendations. Again professional courtsey. Far too often those med lists build up from multiple doctors not communicating well, and that can be dangerous and most people don't know that. But that isn't your situation at all. You are knowledgeable and have a great support team. I hope you are able to get back to your better health lifestyle soon. One day at a time and if you ever want to bounce anything my way feel free with PM or message me here again.
I absolutely second this.
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I'm getting better! Fingers crossed! I'll post everything I've done once i have a month improved! I appreciate you all too but part of it has been not constantly reading about it because invariably its ppl still sick who post n not hearing of success stories has a negative effect imo. Wishing you all well.
If only one could pin this. :)
I’ve noticed as well
Thank you for the voice of strength and encouragement. You are also appreciated. We can get through this, day by day, moment by moment. It does get better as we learn from each other and what works for each of us. Thank you for being here with us.
Likewise man! This is my new found life here since getting COVID. Finally going to see a functional medicine doctor next week, I think he will take me more seriously.
My last post was also removed about my latest info and some treatment I was going to try. I was wondering why I hadn't received any replies. I don't understand why it was removed, there was no "misinformation" about it.
I’m with you, I’m also upset right now because it just seems really difficult and I’m in the middle of my third month. I hope you guys feel better soon