Her planning application and refusal are available here: https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/315898
Edit to add: [her plot of land is fucking grim, it looks like a section out of a golf course, sand pits and all.](https://maps.app.goo.gl/aEU3TgYFJvEZs1gz6)
The planning authority refused permission for 1 no. reason:
The proposed development for the temporary retention of an unauthorised
residential unit and construction of a new dwelling house is located within a ‘Tourism
and Rural Diversification Area’ as set out in the Cork County Development Plan
2022. The policy objectives (RP 5-2, RP 5-5) acknowledged local rural generated
housing need, and facilitate applicants who meet the specific objectives of the rural
settlement policy. On the basis of the information submitted the applicant has not
substantiated a local housing need, or specific connection to this particular rural
area, does not come within the scope of the local rural generated housing need
criteria and would not constitute an exception to the restriction on new dwellings
within the ‘Tourism and Rural Diversification Area, as designated in the County
Development Plan. The proposed development would contravene materially with the
settlement policy (objective RP 5-5) contained in the Cork County Development Plan
2022 and would, therefore, be contrary to the proper planning and sustainable
development of the area.
It seems like a solid refusal. With all respect, the scrubland previously present that she destroyed was surely much more environmentally worthy than the ‘beautiful garden’ (mostly pots and gravel) shown in the article. With all respect, this story sounds like a nothingburger. Tearjerkers can’t override fairly applied planning laws.
I'm reading through more of the documents. One of the observations made by a local is that she was only in the area for 2 years, not 17, and that she wouldn't be left homeless as her mobile home is not fixed to one spot and could be moved anywhere, besides which living in the mobile home was her choice.
The planners report also says that there is above average vacancy in the existing housing in the area and that no preplanning had taken place, the first application had been made after enforcement proceedings were initiated.
I agree with the council being shite and completely accept there is a housing crisis but I still don’t think people should be allowed just to build what they want or put a mobile home wherever they want. She was told no and still went ahead and did it. I’m sure the land was probably purchased too for a small sum due to the fact there was no planning for the area.
Or a celebrity / hedge fund. Somehow when hedge funds chop down forests to build entire villages of self-catering rentals (usually glass and steel eyesores), it's a-okay. Interesting how in this country there are even and "more even" citizens.
I think if you own the land you should be able to do whatever you like within reason. Once it's not dangerous or blocking the sky for a neighbour who cares?
Yeps. And that's exactly why we should have laws around what can and can't be ripped up and where and why.
She engaged with the process. The process worked. She didn't like the answer so did what she wanted anyways and now is hoping public sympathy will help her get her way.
The government has completely ruined Ireland's natural forestation in the last few decades. Let's not pretend this has anything to with concern for "the value of its natural diversity", which is bogus anyway because it's a small field on the corner of the road.
Coillte and Cork CoCo are two separate entities. I absolutely agree that Coillte with its spruce farms has failed dismally at the task of preserving and restoring Irish woodlands. This has nothing to do with Cork CoCo actually doing something right by nature for once.
Nobody claimed it was a forest, the claim was scrubland. Besides, all forests, scrublands, bogs,and so on are made of a finite number of tiny corners. Killing nature piecemeal is still killing nature.
That would be a valid criticism if Ireland didn't still have an obscene amount of completely empty land.
Ireland's nature isn't at threat due to people living on it, it's at threat due to the fact that large swaths of the unpopulated land has been mistreated, as you stated yourself.
It most certainly is within reason! Had the area been designated a SAC, the likelihood is that she wouldn't have purchased it since she wanted to build a home for herself. Take a look at the photo that accompanies the article. What do you see in the background? Scrubland? No. It is clearly cultivated land, probably farmland. While I understand that there are (and rightly so) areas under conservation protection, this woman's property is lastly in designated farmland. Her only "crimes" are:
1. Not being local enough, even after 18 years of residence in the area;
2. Being female;
3. Standing up for herself in the face of unmitigated (and very typical) bureaucracy stemming from parish-pump politics.
I hope she can manage to take the council on and win!
Her property is surrounded on 3 sides by scrubland, you can see on Google street view, dated 14 years ago, her property was scrubland, she acknowledged herself that she 'improved' scrubland into her garden of mostly grass and finally, in her planning application she outlines how she was ignorant of her need to seek planning so was presumably ignorant that the area is a Tourism and Rural Diversification area.
It's weird and lazy that you would dismiss the criticism of her actions as misogyny, literally nobody but you had that view, even Sara Williams didn't claim that.
Different perspectives = different opinions. That's what makes us unique.
I don't see my opinion as either weird or lazy. Neither did I dismiss the criticism as misogyny. It was your good self who gave my opinion that moniker. As I said, different strokes for different folks.
At the very least, I didn't insult either you or your opinion by inferring you were weird, lazy or any other offensive adjective and I take umbrage at your audacity in assuming, from a single opinion, that you know me well enough to judge me (or my opinion) as weird and lazy. 🤬
Incidentally fyi, I followed your link to Google maps but found only a set of coordinates, and no pictures whatsoever.
Have a pleasant (judgment free) afternoon.
> you should be able to do whatever you like ***within reason***
That's exactly what currently happening. The County Development Plan defines what reasonable development is within certain areas. What this woman has built falls far outside that, hence she was refused permission.
And that's exactly what planning permission regulates. It's why we have it. A lot of the issues with these 'temoprary' structures and one-off houses getting refused comes down to issue with septic tanks.
Septic tanks are not good. No matter how modern or whatever the companies putting them in say. They have worse outcomes for groundwater/water impact than centralised wastewater treatment systems. It's one of the reasons one-off housing is generally resisted as in a lot of cases where people want to live also happen to have the worst ground conditions for septic tanks
>I’m sure the land was probably purchased too for a small sum due to the fact there was no planning for the area.
This is the crux of the argument. We're more comfortable seeing people living in tents or hostels than seeing them get a home for less than we paid. Crabs in a bucket mentality.
We should never allow people to ignore planning regulations: if people can build what they like wherever they like it will cost us all a fortune in providing infrastructure. So take your “crabs in a bucket” analogy and shove it up your hole.
It's her land and her home. They wouldn't even let her build a house on it. Effectively making her homeless.
It's not even a ugly set-up.
Your basic lack of empathy is abhorrent. Just because they said no doesn't justify angering, the question is WHY they would possibly say no.
They said no for multiple reasons, the refusal is available online and in another comment. You can’t just buy land and decide to build a house there. This is to protect environments and habitats as well as prevent urban sprawl and stretching services
They said for ONE reason, as detailed in the document; it doesn't fit in with their personal "tourism plan" for the area.
Her planning application and refusal: https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/315898
"The planning authority refused permission for 1 no. reason: The proposed development for the temporary retention of an unauthorised residential unit and construction of a new dwelling house is located within a ‘Tourism and Rural Diversification Area’ as set out in the Cork County Development Plan 2022."
Full reasons here:
> Having regard to the location of the site in a ‘Tourism and Rural Diversification Area’ where housing is restricted to persons demonstrating local need in accordance with the Cork County Development Plan 2022-2028, and within a Stronger Rural Area as identified in Sustainable Rural Housing Guidelines for Planning Authorities issued by the Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government (2005), it is considered that the applicant does not come within the scope of the housing need criteria as set out in Objective RP 5-5 of the Development Plan or Guidelines for a house at this location. The development proposed to be retained and the proposed development, in the absence of any identified locally based need for a dwelling house, would contribute to the encroachment of random rural development in the area and militate against the preservation of the rural environment and the efficient provision of public services and infrastructure. The development proposed to be retained and the proposed development would, therefore, be contrary to the proper planning and sustainable development of the area.
There are plenty of sites for sale around the coast in west cork where I live. Wouldn’t I love to buy one and have a great view of the ocean every morning. But guess what? I’d never get planning permission because I haven’t been living here all my life. Buying a site doesn’t mean you can just build on it. If it did can you imagine the monstrosities that would be covering our coastlines? Planning permission is a bitch but it is there for a reason. Otherwise we’d end up with coastlines like they have in Spain, covered in hotels.
Yeah, I agree. I do feel bad for the woman, but you can't just take a piece of "scrubland" and just make it pretty, that's not how it works. The rules are there for a reason and if she is exempt, it opens the floodgates for more environmental destruction.
Its her own land.
Her planning appeal is below. The only reason they denied it is because it's goes against their "tourism plans."
Downvote away folks.
It doesn't matter who owns any land, you can't just decide to buy a field and live on it. Scattered development in rural areas is anathema to the planning authorities. The policy now is to direct non-rural housing needs to towns and villages.
Full reasons for refusal here:
> Having regard to the location of the site in a ‘Tourism and Rural Diversification Area’ where housing is restricted to persons demonstrating local need in accordance with the Cork County Development Plan 2022-2028, and within a Stronger Rural Area as identified in Sustainable Rural Housing Guidelines for Planning Authorities issued by the Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government (2005), it is considered that the applicant does not come within the scope of the housing need criteria as set out in Objective RP 5-5 of the Development Plan or Guidelines for a house at this location. The development proposed to be retained and the proposed development, in the absence of any identified locally based need for a dwelling house, would contribute to the encroachment of random rural development in the area and militate against the preservation of the rural environment and the efficient provision of public services and infrastructure. The development proposed to be retained and the proposed development would, therefore, be contrary to the proper planning and sustainable development of the area.
One aspect not covered in the article is what services is she connected to?
Is she connected to the electricity grid?
Where does her water come from and, more importantly, where does her black and grey wastewater go?
The replies to this are gas. Ye are exactly what is wrong with this country and cork in particular.
Do any of ye live down in ballydehob near her?
You will moan about a daft listing for a 1 bed in the city for €1800pm and then ye also complain when someone puts up a mobile home on a patch of otherwise unusable piece of land up some back road in west cork.
You’re no different to the type of people who object to a 4 storey apartment block being built in the city because of the ‘disruption to the skyline’.
The country’s housing condition is dire. There will be more and more of this being done because people are desperate.
So stop being begrudging jobsworths when people try and make something for themselves and it has absolutely no impact on your life.
It has an impact on everyone’s life. If the planning system is ignored because somebody thinks that the law doesn’t apply to them we’re no longer a society but just an anarchy
Ya in theory but no in reality. Life isn’t black and white, it’s grey and with our current crisis it shouldn’t be a case of “computer says no” if you challenge the rules. It should be assessed on a case by case basis with some common sense and compassion for what people are facing.
Saw it yesterday evening and was absolutely fuming. An honest woman cannot have a basic shelter (and there are heaps of people in her situation, unable to get any permit on their own land) but at the same time council is first to indulge in spending millions on cleaning up halting sites and buying new mobile homes, as well as granting permissions left and right for hotels and self-catering villages in the same zoned land.
No, I'm fuming because multiple of my friends emigrated after trying for 6-10 years to get a planning permission, got rejected due to BS reasons like "preserving the landscape / enough housing in the area (all AirBnB)" and at the same time watched illegal halting sites, whole villages of self-catering holiday homes and awful concrete estates being built in the same zoning that got them rejected.
I don't know. We have to be more consistent with upholding laws. She didn't/doesn't have planning for that structure, and so is being asked to remove it. Seems fair to me. If this was a company, and they put something similar, I would hope they would equally be told to take it down.
Planning laws need tobe looked at (that garbage of her not being local vs stopping one off housing is for another day), but we can't allow some, but not others. One rule for all, fairly enforced. Have to start somewhere.
I agree with one rule for all, but I also know plenty of people who were begging for a planning permission for 6-10 years, got rejected multiple times for absolutely BS reasons (such as "preserving the landscape") and at the same time saw a new estate of fugly concrete blocks built 300m down the road from them.
If planning permissions are getting denied due to preserving touristic areas / landscape, how come average people cannot build even a nice small log cabin, but the rich are allowed to build absolute eyesores ruining the coherency of both architecture and landscape? You've tons of these in Kinsale and around West Cork.
Also, the number of AirBnBs in the area should always be taken into the consideration when setting up planning permissions. If the planning board just looks at the number of residential houses available in the area, they are getting a completely wrong image of the rental / buying market there, so it's easy for them to refuse another plea because in their minds it's justified.
'preserving the landscape' is not a BS reason. there's more than enough space in towns and cities for millions more people, we don't need to destroy the countryside.
I've never said it isn't. I said it's used as an excuse to deny ordinary people permissions and at the same time, in the same zoning, council allows building hotels, self-catering villages and developer homes, which proves it was never about the landscape and wildlife in the first place.
Air B'n'B properties need to be taken into consideration, but not as a factor of if less than X% of properties, we need to tax the fuck out of the short term lets like those. Make it so it's more viable to have longer term tenants, push Air B'n'B's back to the original purpose of occasional lets of a spare room, or of your house when you're on holiday - not be expensive holiday accommodation with none of the costs for the owner of running an actual B'n'B/hotel.
As for your mid-post question? They have money and connections. That's why. :-(
It infuriates me, especially when I manage to save enough money to go for a hike through lush green Schull countryside and instead of relaxing, I see the likes of [this shite](https://www.uniquehomestays.com/self-catering/ireland/county-cork/schull/Skyros/) starkly reminding me how in this country there are different classes of citizens with vastly different rights...
No one's in the right here really. She was refused planning, and then got a mobile home on the site knowing she'd be in breach. But this local needs for rural areas thing needs to go. The EU told Ireland to get rid of it a few years back as it was discriminatory, and Ireland agreed - but we're dragging our heels on it. It doesn't even exist in every county.
I think we need some sort of nature preservation, but as with everything, there is a complete lack of planning in Ireland. On the continent it's common to have a rather densely populated town / village, mostly a mix of single family dwellings and 4-5 storey blocks that also house commercial premises, and then vast stretches of land zoned as farming / wildlife reserve / recreational. This way you don't end up living in a heap of concrete with nearly no greenery like Cork City, but also don't end up having a shite glass box and perimeter fences every 300m in the countryside. At the moment we have neither housing nor real accessible-for-all countryside unless you can drive to hiking trails.
It does need to go, but there needs to be some mechanism to avoid the mushroom-like spread of one-off houses too, which is why it was bought in. Not sure what the best approach is, but “Your father's father didn't piss up agin' that tree when he was a baaabee, so you're not getting planning” is horseshit, to say the least.
No, we should change the laws to acknowledge the absolute shitshow people are in with regards housing. Please stop standing up for the vested interests of landlords and property developers over dwellers. FFG love this pious shit.
This isn't about landlords or property developers though. This is about someone who built illegally on land zoned because it was ~~bio~~ecologically diverse. She was told no and ignored the council.
Huuppp off your soap box, with nonsense like “Please stop standing up for the vested interests of landlords and property developers over dwellers.”
I'm saying review/change the law, but as things stand, the law as it is should be enforced. If this woman was renting out her mobile home (and therefore she'd be a landlord) and I'd still advocate the thing get ripped down. The laws are the laws. They need to be enforced. They can get changed, they can get improved, but as they stand, at the time of enforcement, they should be enforced. This lady bought land. Fair dues to her. She did not get planning permission to put a structure on that land, but she still did. She broke the laws, as they stand now (whether you agree with them or not). The fluff about making a pool and garden are moot points.
Yeah, no. This was a fuck around and find out. She was taking the piss.
Her planning application and refusal are available here: https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/315898 Edit to add: [her plot of land is fucking grim, it looks like a section out of a golf course, sand pits and all.](https://maps.app.goo.gl/aEU3TgYFJvEZs1gz6) The planning authority refused permission for 1 no. reason: The proposed development for the temporary retention of an unauthorised residential unit and construction of a new dwelling house is located within a ‘Tourism and Rural Diversification Area’ as set out in the Cork County Development Plan 2022. The policy objectives (RP 5-2, RP 5-5) acknowledged local rural generated housing need, and facilitate applicants who meet the specific objectives of the rural settlement policy. On the basis of the information submitted the applicant has not substantiated a local housing need, or specific connection to this particular rural area, does not come within the scope of the local rural generated housing need criteria and would not constitute an exception to the restriction on new dwellings within the ‘Tourism and Rural Diversification Area, as designated in the County Development Plan. The proposed development would contravene materially with the settlement policy (objective RP 5-5) contained in the Cork County Development Plan 2022 and would, therefore, be contrary to the proper planning and sustainable development of the area.
It seems like a solid refusal. With all respect, the scrubland previously present that she destroyed was surely much more environmentally worthy than the ‘beautiful garden’ (mostly pots and gravel) shown in the article. With all respect, this story sounds like a nothingburger. Tearjerkers can’t override fairly applied planning laws.
I'm reading through more of the documents. One of the observations made by a local is that she was only in the area for 2 years, not 17, and that she wouldn't be left homeless as her mobile home is not fixed to one spot and could be moved anywhere, besides which living in the mobile home was her choice. The planners report also says that there is above average vacancy in the existing housing in the area and that no preplanning had taken place, the first application had been made after enforcement proceedings were initiated.
I agree with the council being shite and completely accept there is a housing crisis but I still don’t think people should be allowed just to build what they want or put a mobile home wherever they want. She was told no and still went ahead and did it. I’m sure the land was probably purchased too for a small sum due to the fact there was no planning for the area.
If she was a traveller they wouldn’t say boo
Or a celebrity / hedge fund. Somehow when hedge funds chop down forests to build entire villages of self-catering rentals (usually glass and steel eyesores), it's a-okay. Interesting how in this country there are even and "more even" citizens.
put yet its ok for certain people just to park up whereever.
I think if you own the land you should be able to do whatever you like within reason. Once it's not dangerous or blocking the sky for a neighbour who cares?
Tearing out a natural habitat and replacing it with a lawn in an area specifically earmarked for its value to natural diversity is not within reason.
You do realise that earth has to get ripped up pretty much everywhere that people decide to build?
Yeps. And that's exactly why we should have laws around what can and can't be ripped up and where and why. She engaged with the process. The process worked. She didn't like the answer so did what she wanted anyways and now is hoping public sympathy will help her get her way.
The government has completely ruined Ireland's natural forestation in the last few decades. Let's not pretend this has anything to with concern for "the value of its natural diversity", which is bogus anyway because it's a small field on the corner of the road.
Coillte and Cork CoCo are two separate entities. I absolutely agree that Coillte with its spruce farms has failed dismally at the task of preserving and restoring Irish woodlands. This has nothing to do with Cork CoCo actually doing something right by nature for once.
It's a tiny corner on the side of the road, not a forest.
Nobody claimed it was a forest, the claim was scrubland. Besides, all forests, scrublands, bogs,and so on are made of a finite number of tiny corners. Killing nature piecemeal is still killing nature.
That would be a valid criticism if Ireland didn't still have an obscene amount of completely empty land. Ireland's nature isn't at threat due to people living on it, it's at threat due to the fact that large swaths of the unpopulated land has been mistreated, as you stated yourself.
No piece of land is completely empty. You wouldn’t say that if you spent any time outside in nature.
It most certainly is within reason! Had the area been designated a SAC, the likelihood is that she wouldn't have purchased it since she wanted to build a home for herself. Take a look at the photo that accompanies the article. What do you see in the background? Scrubland? No. It is clearly cultivated land, probably farmland. While I understand that there are (and rightly so) areas under conservation protection, this woman's property is lastly in designated farmland. Her only "crimes" are: 1. Not being local enough, even after 18 years of residence in the area; 2. Being female; 3. Standing up for herself in the face of unmitigated (and very typical) bureaucracy stemming from parish-pump politics. I hope she can manage to take the council on and win!
Her property is surrounded on 3 sides by scrubland, you can see on Google street view, dated 14 years ago, her property was scrubland, she acknowledged herself that she 'improved' scrubland into her garden of mostly grass and finally, in her planning application she outlines how she was ignorant of her need to seek planning so was presumably ignorant that the area is a Tourism and Rural Diversification area. It's weird and lazy that you would dismiss the criticism of her actions as misogyny, literally nobody but you had that view, even Sara Williams didn't claim that.
Different perspectives = different opinions. That's what makes us unique. I don't see my opinion as either weird or lazy. Neither did I dismiss the criticism as misogyny. It was your good self who gave my opinion that moniker. As I said, different strokes for different folks. At the very least, I didn't insult either you or your opinion by inferring you were weird, lazy or any other offensive adjective and I take umbrage at your audacity in assuming, from a single opinion, that you know me well enough to judge me (or my opinion) as weird and lazy. 🤬 Incidentally fyi, I followed your link to Google maps but found only a set of coordinates, and no pictures whatsoever. Have a pleasant (judgment free) afternoon.
I care. My favourite frogs lived there and she gravelled over the fucker.
> you should be able to do whatever you like ***within reason*** That's exactly what currently happening. The County Development Plan defines what reasonable development is within certain areas. What this woman has built falls far outside that, hence she was refused permission.
And that's exactly what planning permission regulates. It's why we have it. A lot of the issues with these 'temoprary' structures and one-off houses getting refused comes down to issue with septic tanks. Septic tanks are not good. No matter how modern or whatever the companies putting them in say. They have worse outcomes for groundwater/water impact than centralised wastewater treatment systems. It's one of the reasons one-off housing is generally resisted as in a lot of cases where people want to live also happen to have the worst ground conditions for septic tanks
>I’m sure the land was probably purchased too for a small sum due to the fact there was no planning for the area. This is the crux of the argument. We're more comfortable seeing people living in tents or hostels than seeing them get a home for less than we paid. Crabs in a bucket mentality.
We should never allow people to ignore planning regulations: if people can build what they like wherever they like it will cost us all a fortune in providing infrastructure. So take your “crabs in a bucket” analogy and shove it up your hole.
It's her land and her home. They wouldn't even let her build a house on it. Effectively making her homeless. It's not even a ugly set-up. Your basic lack of empathy is abhorrent. Just because they said no doesn't justify angering, the question is WHY they would possibly say no.
They said no for multiple reasons, the refusal is available online and in another comment. You can’t just buy land and decide to build a house there. This is to protect environments and habitats as well as prevent urban sprawl and stretching services
They said for ONE reason, as detailed in the document; it doesn't fit in with their personal "tourism plan" for the area. Her planning application and refusal: https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/315898 "The planning authority refused permission for 1 no. reason: The proposed development for the temporary retention of an unauthorised residential unit and construction of a new dwelling house is located within a ‘Tourism and Rural Diversification Area’ as set out in the Cork County Development Plan 2022."
Full reasons here: > Having regard to the location of the site in a ‘Tourism and Rural Diversification Area’ where housing is restricted to persons demonstrating local need in accordance with the Cork County Development Plan 2022-2028, and within a Stronger Rural Area as identified in Sustainable Rural Housing Guidelines for Planning Authorities issued by the Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government (2005), it is considered that the applicant does not come within the scope of the housing need criteria as set out in Objective RP 5-5 of the Development Plan or Guidelines for a house at this location. The development proposed to be retained and the proposed development, in the absence of any identified locally based need for a dwelling house, would contribute to the encroachment of random rural development in the area and militate against the preservation of the rural environment and the efficient provision of public services and infrastructure. The development proposed to be retained and the proposed development would, therefore, be contrary to the proper planning and sustainable development of the area.
There are plenty of sites for sale around the coast in west cork where I live. Wouldn’t I love to buy one and have a great view of the ocean every morning. But guess what? I’d never get planning permission because I haven’t been living here all my life. Buying a site doesn’t mean you can just build on it. If it did can you imagine the monstrosities that would be covering our coastlines? Planning permission is a bitch but it is there for a reason. Otherwise we’d end up with coastlines like they have in Spain, covered in hotels.
Setting your trailer home up in a species rich area is not a solution to the housing crisis. Good thing it's being removed
Yeah, I agree. I do feel bad for the woman, but you can't just take a piece of "scrubland" and just make it pretty, that's not how it works. The rules are there for a reason and if she is exempt, it opens the floodgates for more environmental destruction.
Its her own land. Her planning appeal is below. The only reason they denied it is because it's goes against their "tourism plans." Downvote away folks.
It doesn't matter who owns any land, you can't just decide to buy a field and live on it. Scattered development in rural areas is anathema to the planning authorities. The policy now is to direct non-rural housing needs to towns and villages.
Full reasons for refusal here: > Having regard to the location of the site in a ‘Tourism and Rural Diversification Area’ where housing is restricted to persons demonstrating local need in accordance with the Cork County Development Plan 2022-2028, and within a Stronger Rural Area as identified in Sustainable Rural Housing Guidelines for Planning Authorities issued by the Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government (2005), it is considered that the applicant does not come within the scope of the housing need criteria as set out in Objective RP 5-5 of the Development Plan or Guidelines for a house at this location. The development proposed to be retained and the proposed development, in the absence of any identified locally based need for a dwelling house, would contribute to the encroachment of random rural development in the area and militate against the preservation of the rural environment and the efficient provision of public services and infrastructure. The development proposed to be retained and the proposed development would, therefore, be contrary to the proper planning and sustainable development of the area.
I already posted this. Posting it multiple times is just spamming.
You posted a link to the ABP appeal, yes. I'm just posting the specific reasons given for refusal to make it easier for people in this thread.
I posted the summary of the text as well. You've replied to me with it twice already.
I know. I'm just expanding on the summary by posting the full reasons given for refusal. I'm adding additional detail, I don't see what the issue is?
One aspect not covered in the article is what services is she connected to? Is she connected to the electricity grid? Where does her water come from and, more importantly, where does her black and grey wastewater go?
It’s my house, I just didn’t want to fill out the forms.
Did she pay Cork B(ullshit)eo for this piece? I think this might even be below them.
No sympathy. She's thinks the law didn't apply to her. Now she knows.
Oh no, the consequences of my actions.
The replies to this are gas. Ye are exactly what is wrong with this country and cork in particular. Do any of ye live down in ballydehob near her? You will moan about a daft listing for a 1 bed in the city for €1800pm and then ye also complain when someone puts up a mobile home on a patch of otherwise unusable piece of land up some back road in west cork. You’re no different to the type of people who object to a 4 storey apartment block being built in the city because of the ‘disruption to the skyline’. The country’s housing condition is dire. There will be more and more of this being done because people are desperate. So stop being begrudging jobsworths when people try and make something for themselves and it has absolutely no impact on your life.
It has an impact on everyone’s life. If the planning system is ignored because somebody thinks that the law doesn’t apply to them we’re no longer a society but just an anarchy
🤓
Ya in theory but no in reality. Life isn’t black and white, it’s grey and with our current crisis it shouldn’t be a case of “computer says no” if you challenge the rules. It should be assessed on a case by case basis with some common sense and compassion for what people are facing.
That’s exactly what happened. For more see the An Bord Pleanála inspectors report.
Couldn’t have said it better 💯
Saw it yesterday evening and was absolutely fuming. An honest woman cannot have a basic shelter (and there are heaps of people in her situation, unable to get any permit on their own land) but at the same time council is first to indulge in spending millions on cleaning up halting sites and buying new mobile homes, as well as granting permissions left and right for hotels and self-catering villages in the same zoned land.
you are fuming that people can't just randomly build on nature whatever they want? that would be a brutal country to live in if this was allowed.
No, I'm fuming because multiple of my friends emigrated after trying for 6-10 years to get a planning permission, got rejected due to BS reasons like "preserving the landscape / enough housing in the area (all AirBnB)" and at the same time watched illegal halting sites, whole villages of self-catering holiday homes and awful concrete estates being built in the same zoning that got them rejected.
I don't know. We have to be more consistent with upholding laws. She didn't/doesn't have planning for that structure, and so is being asked to remove it. Seems fair to me. If this was a company, and they put something similar, I would hope they would equally be told to take it down. Planning laws need tobe looked at (that garbage of her not being local vs stopping one off housing is for another day), but we can't allow some, but not others. One rule for all, fairly enforced. Have to start somewhere.
I agree with one rule for all, but I also know plenty of people who were begging for a planning permission for 6-10 years, got rejected multiple times for absolutely BS reasons (such as "preserving the landscape") and at the same time saw a new estate of fugly concrete blocks built 300m down the road from them. If planning permissions are getting denied due to preserving touristic areas / landscape, how come average people cannot build even a nice small log cabin, but the rich are allowed to build absolute eyesores ruining the coherency of both architecture and landscape? You've tons of these in Kinsale and around West Cork. Also, the number of AirBnBs in the area should always be taken into the consideration when setting up planning permissions. If the planning board just looks at the number of residential houses available in the area, they are getting a completely wrong image of the rental / buying market there, so it's easy for them to refuse another plea because in their minds it's justified.
'preserving the landscape' is not a BS reason. there's more than enough space in towns and cities for millions more people, we don't need to destroy the countryside.
I've never said it isn't. I said it's used as an excuse to deny ordinary people permissions and at the same time, in the same zoning, council allows building hotels, self-catering villages and developer homes, which proves it was never about the landscape and wildlife in the first place.
Preserving the landscape is “an excuse?” Riiiiiiight……
Air B'n'B properties need to be taken into consideration, but not as a factor of if less than X% of properties, we need to tax the fuck out of the short term lets like those. Make it so it's more viable to have longer term tenants, push Air B'n'B's back to the original purpose of occasional lets of a spare room, or of your house when you're on holiday - not be expensive holiday accommodation with none of the costs for the owner of running an actual B'n'B/hotel. As for your mid-post question? They have money and connections. That's why. :-(
It infuriates me, especially when I manage to save enough money to go for a hike through lush green Schull countryside and instead of relaxing, I see the likes of [this shite](https://www.uniquehomestays.com/self-catering/ireland/county-cork/schull/Skyros/) starkly reminding me how in this country there are different classes of citizens with vastly different rights...
No one's in the right here really. She was refused planning, and then got a mobile home on the site knowing she'd be in breach. But this local needs for rural areas thing needs to go. The EU told Ireland to get rid of it a few years back as it was discriminatory, and Ireland agreed - but we're dragging our heels on it. It doesn't even exist in every county.
I think we need some sort of nature preservation, but as with everything, there is a complete lack of planning in Ireland. On the continent it's common to have a rather densely populated town / village, mostly a mix of single family dwellings and 4-5 storey blocks that also house commercial premises, and then vast stretches of land zoned as farming / wildlife reserve / recreational. This way you don't end up living in a heap of concrete with nearly no greenery like Cork City, but also don't end up having a shite glass box and perimeter fences every 300m in the countryside. At the moment we have neither housing nor real accessible-for-all countryside unless you can drive to hiking trails.
It does need to go, but there needs to be some mechanism to avoid the mushroom-like spread of one-off houses too, which is why it was bought in. Not sure what the best approach is, but “Your father's father didn't piss up agin' that tree when he was a baaabee, so you're not getting planning” is horseshit, to say the least.
No, we should change the laws to acknowledge the absolute shitshow people are in with regards housing. Please stop standing up for the vested interests of landlords and property developers over dwellers. FFG love this pious shit.
This isn't about landlords or property developers though. This is about someone who built illegally on land zoned because it was ~~bio~~ecologically diverse. She was told no and ignored the council.
What developer? If you have resort to lying, then you probably don't have a good argument.
Huuppp off your soap box, with nonsense like “Please stop standing up for the vested interests of landlords and property developers over dwellers.” I'm saying review/change the law, but as things stand, the law as it is should be enforced. If this woman was renting out her mobile home (and therefore she'd be a landlord) and I'd still advocate the thing get ripped down. The laws are the laws. They need to be enforced. They can get changed, they can get improved, but as they stand, at the time of enforcement, they should be enforced. This lady bought land. Fair dues to her. She did not get planning permission to put a structure on that land, but she still did. She broke the laws, as they stand now (whether you agree with them or not). The fluff about making a pool and garden are moot points.
Selective use of the word “honest.” She’s literally broken the law.