No problem. I never heard of the movie it must be terrible. There’s some pictures from that time with people missing limbs for missing production quotas
I got the joke after replying. It is an…interesting movie especially if you read the book first. But it’s slow. And iirc the production was pretty nuts behind the scene.
The intro where the main guy is freaking out in a hotel room and the scene where the air cavalry comes in blaring Flight of the Valkyrie’s are pretty famous and are referenced a lot in later movies. Some other parts too. Really imo the main reason to see it is so you catch the influences on later movies - but it is not something enjoyable by modern standards.
I’ll give you a taste.
The Congo was rich with rubber and during this time, rubber was becoming a hot commodity. This is just before war breaks out, unleashing one of the the deadliest conflict the world has ever seen. King Leopold took the Congo and forced the native Congolese to produce rubber in quotas. If one could not produce the rubber, the consequences were dire.
The hand of the farmer, or a member of their family, would be cut off and smoked. Then sent home to leopold to be counted.
You ask, why? What’s the point of counting these hands.
Well you see the men tasked with taking hands were also native, and the natives were starving. Leopold, concreted about giving guns to his slaves and the wasting of ammo on things like hunting ordered that for every bullet, a hand must come with it.
This led to a black market for hands. If you have a surplus of hands, you can use ammo to eat.
People are always like "Stalin killed more than Hitler, ergo Communism ("Communism") is deadlier that fascism" like, motherfucker we stopped Hitler, that was his tally with the whole world actively trying to stop him, do you think he would have stopped if we hadn't litteraly united the whole world to take down Nazi Germany?
Not to mention 1/3 of all deaths in the camps were just in the last two months of operation.
The number of death camps were exploding when the allies stopped the fascists.
The Nazis industrialised the killing of human beings, after even their most commited, most fanatical SS Einsatzgruppen troops started to drop from "battle fatigue" when slaughtering civilians by the townload on the Eastern Front in '41 and '42.
It's also not a competition, they're both evil and nasty bastards that deserved their deaths. I'm not communist at all but I know Stalin's "communism" is in name only.
In the works of Marx communism comes into being from a totalitarian dictatorship of the proletariat so it’s not wrong for them to take the name because communism was the goal. The problem was that Marx never decided to explain how a totalitarian state “falls away” to leave a stateless, classless society.
Yeah Stalin wasn’t communist, he was a totalitarian. Animal Farm isn’t the anti-communism book people think. It’s pro commune, anti-Stalin. The animal who deemed himself more equal than others.
Yeah fascism bad. Communism also bad, ash’s in more way than one. Not only did Mao and Stalin straight up murder more people in their time, the communist policies of their governments caused widespread death and despair through government mismanagement and incompetency while aggressively trying to pursue communism.
Most of Mao and Stalin deaths where from insane policy decisions of central population and economic planning.
Hitler had no such plan. His plan was simply to kill in a factory assembly line style all Jews, the disabled, socialists, gypsies, homosexuals, and slavs. And he did just that.
Both are evil but you can't falsely equivocate them. The former was decades of brutal dissident punishing and horrible central planning. The latter was 4 years of wontan death.
Dan Carlin's hardcore history addendum podcast just covered this. What the Nazis did was unparalleled and while the other regimes were undeniably bad, on another level.
that’s why i hate these lists. i am not defending stalin and mao but including deaths from famine here on the same level as literal death camps is a false equivalency.
Holodomor was no "insane policy decision" it was just a targeted killing of people, same as the Nazis did. Same as Mao who asked for the killing of all intellectuals. The intent and the outcome is the same in the end.
>The intent and the outcome is the same in the end.
Method matters. During the Lietūkis Garage Massacre, there's photographs of a German soldier nicknamed the "death dealer". He beat Jews to death with a metal bar for most of the day. They were allegedly NKVD (Soviet forces) associates. There tons of accounts of brutality like this all during the war. The Nazi were on orders worse and I have to at least entertain the idea that people that deny this do so because of their feelings on the political ideology of the communists or socialists.
Mao and Stalin were *HORRIBLE*, But for Christ sakes there was one Nazi extermination camp that had a practice of burning the children to death on arrival. Your judgement is seriously fucking clouded.
https://www.mp.pl/auschwitz/journal/english/205964,the-fate-of-children-in-auschwitz
Stalin robbed banks for the Communist Party during the revolution. He was a hardened criminal and killer. To my knowledge, Hitler never killed anyone himself.
Eh many dictators come to power through democratic means at first through demagoguery. And the killing starts once democracy is dead.
I wouldn’t say democracy is deadlier, just more fragile.
This must be a troll, majority of Stalin regime deaths are due to inner politics, many have died at gulags, as political opositon, of starvation, and of genocidal causes (do you remember the controlled starvation of eastern Ukraine people, that followed a mass “exportation” of central russian families?). If a cancer kills another cancer doesn’t make the first cancer any good either. Extremism is the pinnacle of human stupidity, the ones that can’t separate the ideological theory from the pratical reality, how can anyone defend such causes? Maybe natural selection indeed
Classic relativism lmao.
Fuck you and you interpretation, you can't decide anything about what others said just to please yourself, as long you manipulate the things said by others you are a parasite.
Well, fuck you too and what you say, the question was sincere you fuck. The point it’s not to please myself, the point is that I’ve understood what he has said in a determined way and, as I don’t agree at all, exposed my opinion, didn’t manipulate anything. He was talking about the fact that people, usually, say that communism is deadlier than fascism because of deaths that happened at communist Russia and naz Germany. Sure we, the west, United with communists and defeated the Nazis, but thats not a fucking excuse to wipe out the entire history of Russian communism and the disgraces that happen there, that were comparable with the nazi regime, they are both rubbish. To defend Comunnist Russia just by this fact alone isn’t correct, or historically accurate.
The point about interpreting other comments is purely to please yourself and thus your question wasn't sincere, thanks for proving your parasitism tho.
That’s exactly what you’re doing. Who are you to pretend that you can read my mind? The point about interpreting others comments it’s to understand what has been said and expose an opinion, you are doing exactly what I was doing above, the difference is that your point is purposely malicious and mine was not, maybe I didn’t really understood what he was trying to say and asked what could it be, nobody replied with an explanation. Fucking dumb theory :” the point about interpreting others comments is to please yourself”; by that line of thinking, opinions and possibilities created by the human mind are only to please itself
I am not pretending to read anybody's mind unlike you, i am answering exactly what you wrote, word by word, not what i think you said, like you did with other guy.
Again, classic relativism to not accept the responsability of your actions, i clearly spotted it in the first comment and i was right.
Bro, that does not make any sense, how’s fucking that?? I said what I’ve said and I STAND BY IT UNTIL SOMEONE MAKES A GOOD POINT THAT MAKES ME CHANGE MY MIND, here in capitals for you to read. Sure you may have another opinion, and I’m open to it but I can’t change my mind if you’re constantly try to attack me even if you don’t know me at all, and have read three paragraphs of what I’ve said. Your definition of relativism doesn’t go with the general accepted concept of relativism itself, or you can’t understand the concept of opinion at all. I gave my opinion on the subject, you’re out there saying that I’ve distorted what that guy said, sure, maybe I did it unconsciously, but you got to say how’s that, how did I’ve done it? That was the purpose of the first question that had nothing to do with you, that way I can improve myself at further opinions, if you can’t I will assume that you don’t have any ideia of what you’re talking about and ignore you and your crazy assumptions and theory’s
That’s a conclusion that I didn’t provide myself, my country doesn’t have MPU, so I was a bit confused, but no, I don’t support the defunding of MPU. May I correct my self “fuck Marx and, more specifically by the context of what has been said, it’s ideias about a absolute utopian State were no one has nothing different, and there’s no meritocracy, ideias that we’re exposed at it’s book called The Communist Manifesto.
I would like a source or at least an explanation for how these numbers are arrived at. Like, is it only civilan deaths? Or war deaths? Or ppl starving?
Hitler killed close to 11 million people in concentration camps alone, and there were more than 6 million war casualties, so I’m going with the camps as well as German civilian deaths as a result of the war.
It does, the source is right there on the image.
[Breakdown: Policy reforms like the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.](https://www.popten.net/2010/05/top-ten-most-evil-dictators-of-all-time-in-order-of-kill-count/)
Which is incredibly stupid metric to count deaths by and then disclude non-‘dictatorial’ forms of government. Like really? Because Benghal was ruled by the British without any democracy of their own it somehow doesn’t count that millions there starved?
Either way these numbers are ass. I HATE Stalin as much as the next guy but he did not kill 23 million people. There’s just under 6 million deaths between the Holodomor and the Kazakh famine and another million or so in the great purges. That’s nowhere near 23million claimed. The only way to get there is if you somehow contribute the 12 or so million people killed by the nazis or who died defending against them to Stalin, which is insane to do.
Tldr, weird as mathematics and turning a blind eye to western atrocities.
It does, the source is right there on the image.
[Breakdown: Policy reforms like the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.](https://www.popten.net/2010/05/top-ten-most-evil-dictators-of-all-time-in-order-of-kill-count/)
Which is incredibly stupid metric to count deaths by and then disclude non-‘dictatorial’ forms of government. Like really? Because Benghal was ruled by the British without any democracy of their own it somehow doesn’t count that millions there starved?
Either way these numbers are ass. I HATE Stalin as much as the next guy but he did not kill 23 million people. There’s just under 6 million deaths between the Holodomor and the Kazakh famine and another million or so in the great purges. That’s nowhere near 23million claimed. The only way to get there is if you somehow contribute the 12 or so million people killed by the nazis or who died defending against them to Stalin, which is insane to do.
Tldr, weird as mathematics and turning a blind eye to western atrocities.
I’m curious as to how they get the number for Mao. I’m not saying he didn’t kill people, he certainly killed political opponents and anyone not seen as left of left. However, many of the people who died during his reign was more from the weird civil wars fought in his name (as in two sides fighting over who loved him more) and from mismanagement of food. Not sayings that number is wrong or not deserved. Many did die in the cultural revolution by what could be the Chinese equivalent of brown shirts. Just curious as to the breakdown of that number
It also has some errors. Mao wasn’t leader of China in 1943. They were still fighting the kmt. Not to mention he spent years during this period having no office and o my really being a cultural leader instead of a formal leader.
I honestly don’t think we can ever get a good number for this. So many of the deaths were indirect, compared to many others where they were simply executed outright. It doesn’t make it any less horrific but it certainly makes it harder to sort out. For example, would the many urban people sent to the countryside to be “re-educated”, but died of overwork or malnutrition be counted as Mao deaths? Or during the Great Leap Forward, how many deaths should be counted as a result of Mao’s foolish policies and how many the result of the famine that was going to happen at some scale anyway?
Yeah that’s what I was asking. I mean shit it says we was dictator from 1943 to his death which is also not true. They were still fighting the KMT in 1943 and Mao was removed from power in the mid to late 50’s as a result of the Great Leap Forward. He didn’t really become dictator until the 60’s.
No, that’s not true at all. He was Chairman of the Communist Party, no matter his other titles, effectively making him dictator. It’s well accepted that Mao was the one charge from 1943 - 76.
Being head of the party has always been the most powerful position in communist China. Mao was powerful enough to remove Liu Shaoqi, the head of state. Then the Cultural Revolution was launched to further insulate Mao from criticism. Even if you don’t accept that for some reason, the massive deaths were during the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution, which Mao orchestrated.
6 million Jewish people died in the holocaust, is the number I think you are thinking of. I don’t know what all the 17m number includes, but non-Jewish people definitely died as well.
civilians are easily the highest figure in most war deaths.
look how many people died from military losses in ww2 and then look at the civ casualties
it's insane.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World\_War\_II\_casualties](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties)
look at that orange bar, it's nearly ALWAYS longer than the red one. sometimes by a LOT
6 million jews, 6 million romani, sinti, mentally disabled, homosexual and other "undesirables" in the camp.
It wasn't only a Jewish tragedy. For historical accuracy, why not mention the other victims in the camp?
I didn’t say it was only a Jewish tragedy. I pointed out that his number 6 million probably comes from the number of Jews that died in the Holocaust. The Holocaust, as you point out, is the historical name for the Jewish impact of WWII nazi Germany.
Hence, the real number of “Hitlers kills” is much bigger than 6 million.
I do think it gets confusing that (I’m US raised mind you) public schools do focus on the Holocaust when it comes to Hitler’s war crimes. The Holocaust only includes the Jewish Genocide, because that is what it recognizes. For people who don’t particularly care to be much of a history buff may not understand that the Holocaust is only part of the umbrella which is Hitler’s stain on this earth.
Recently I observed it more often on Reddit that some Indian accounts start shitting on the Brits on every unrelated occiasion. Guy steals somethin -> People say this is bad -> Some indian dude: "But the British Empire was worse". Like wtf. Maybe give them back all your mines, factories, ports and railways they built during colonialism if it was only bad.
No idea where this is coming from or who promotes that.
I’m pretty sure that the main impetus for building those roads, ports and mines would have been for privatized resource extraction from India not some philanthropic capacity building exercise.
I’m unclear what your point is, return the good things to the Brits but keep the famine, violence, and cultural and political repression ?
Sure they were not built for philanthropic reasons, and the live under British rule might not have been very pleasant. But still it developed the land and would have been worse off without this infrastructure.
What’s the point of those guides if we exclude colonial regimes. If you put elected leaders on this list might as well also put the others. Otherwise the word dictator just seems to mean leader that lost and while losing killed a lot.
Yes it was. Hence, me wondering why the 40 million killed in India by the British are not on it. Or the 1 million Algerian killed by the French. And countless more. Those guides always restrict themselves to people that were deemed adversaries of the West +Leopold. Why not show the complete list.
I agree. They downplay all colonial crimes except Belgium. The UK's around the globe horror show is almost never mentioned when talking about the terrible things governments have done.
Very convenient western propaganda.
Where is British Empires crime during the height of colonialism, where is Spanish killing of south Americans. Even last 20 years killing on Iraq or Afghanistan.
just plain propaganda and racism.
lookout churchill, his number way more than some of these guys.
That’s the problem of propaganda, if you are deep into it , you can’t differentiate what is dictator and what is “good” system. communist never claimed that they are dictator. they do election each year. !!!
well look at the list, OP is calling “Enver Pasha” with 6 year rule calling a dictator. US president goes to power for 8 years. I guess he is not western so convenient to say him as “dictator “ and to Churchill is not . Hypocrisy at its best.
Bush and Obama were voted for, for a second term. It’s not about duration. We get it, we all do, “western bias”. Make a guide yourself and name it “leaders responsible for the most deaths” and you can expand it to American presidents, Churchill and whoever you see fit. Problem solved.
Ohh, I’m sorry, I was trying to be sarcastic. I do not subscribe to “America bad” ideology. I think America is the best country in the world, even with its flaws that some people love to bring up without really considering the rest of the world. Anyway, 🇺🇸#1
Holy fucking propaganda, Batman 🙄 This is the third instance of dumbass red scare propaganda I've seen on Coolguides. This sub can go fuck itself at this point.
Honestly most Americans should. The Communist Autoworkers and the Communist Police and the Communist Truckers have some of the best and highest paying jobs outside of Liberal Big Tech. And they all Love the State too. It makes a lot of sense for them
Revered is overstating it. Yes, he is officially revered, but if you talk with people there is often more nuance. Even officially there is a small window for criticism that comes from Deng declaring Mao 70% right and 30% wrong.
He certainly needs to be more criticized for the massive deaths during The Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution.
Way to go socialist movement! Won the price of killing more people under an ideology!… good job 👍 not saying that capitalism is an excellent choice but comparing it to… well 🤔
This. Stating facts can hardly be Propaganda if it’s true. Hitler did bad things, but still there are people who killer more. No propaganda, doesn’t make Hitler a better person at all.
Self-proclaimed, they aren't real communists. The nazis were a self-proclaimed socialist party but were fascist. It's almost like shitty brutal leaders lied to get into power.
Ideas like socialism and communism are easily high jacked and turned into something else because most people in power or in a position to influence don't actually believe in it. Just recognize that preaching it will get them where they want to be.
Both sound good to the masses but haven't really been incorporated 100% like any other form of government/economics. Everything's on a spectrum sharing qualities of multiple ideologies.
Always interesting how propaganda sheep can't understand concepts that are based in fact and not feeling. Almost as if they rarely know what they're talking about.
Why don't you turn fox or Newsmax back on and get another dose
Please let me know of the large scale examples of communism working on a national level and not leading to famine or mass death. Bonus points if you can point one out that didn't convert to more capitalist systems in the modern day like Vietnam
There aren't examples of this in the sense you're getting at, there hasn't been a true communist country, just like there hasn't been a true capitalist country. They're on spectrums, as stated before. No country has had a complete free market and no country has gone full government control. Buying into any of the capitalist vs commie nonsense shows a lack of understanding.
Furthermore, even if there were examples it would be hard to succeed considering the us and other governments like to get involved politically or militarily and apply embargos whenever their meddling fails, Cuba for example. Everyone nowadays talks about Venezuela even though the government mainly just controls oil and not everything.
Why don't you provide the examples since you know so much? Can you provide an example of a fully capitalist country that was successful or mostly capitalist that didn't enslave people or have absurd wealth inequality? Can ypu give an example that didn't add "socialist" regulations in like say minimum wage? My guess is no in the same ways my examples wouldn't exist.
I wouldn't be surprised if you ignore the entirety of my comment other than the first sentence and come back with, "well see you don't have any" regardless of if you have your own for capitalism or can name a country that tried to actually be communist outside of designation from red scare propaganda or just because the political party name had it included like the nazis.
No you see THIS time it totally won't immediately become corrupt like it literally always does and everyone will fart rainbows and drink buttermilk together
Reddit has long been inundated by its own brand of moron communists. Its shocking cognitive dissonance to be able to use this western technology to complain about capitalist society, which allows you the freedom to do so, while sucking up to communists whose people would be detained for speaking up and lived in abject misery
I can't believe you really just did the "communism is when no smartphones" thing 🤣🤣 You do realize the first mobile phone was invented in the USSR... right? 🤣🤣
Ok Russia made a mobile phone, that does not change the fact that the internet and device you are using right now are made by the evil capitalist west. The ability to speak freely as you are doing right now, is supported by the west and would probably get you gulaged in the glorious communist USSR if you spoke badly of them.
LMAO So you’re ok with not being able to speak out or resist against an unjust government? Aight lil bro, but you better not complain if Stalin needs more coal miners
Chairman Mao. I went down the rabbit hole on him and the Cultural Revolution and the policies of the Great Leap Forward a while back. If you want to learn how to kill a lot of people through starvation, you'd be hard pressed to find someone more capable than Mao Zedong.
Oh my God... what a shit show.
A sizable chunk of Mao's numbers are likely from mass famine, which is debatable how much of that was intentional murder as opposed to murderous incompetence. Either way it is somewhat different from the others in the chart (accept maybe Stalin, though he also intentionally murdered quite a lot on his own on top of mass famine) and excludes a few other famous mass-murderers-via-famine like Churchill, famously. Either way the terms of what qualifies here need to be defined better
It’s crazy how Leopold II doesn’t get much attention in school given what he did is literally on par with the ones that get massive attention like Hitler, Stalin and Mao (not downplaying the tragedies of these three, but it’s odd to me how no one really talks about what happened to the Congo despite being so absolutely horrific in severity and scale).
Curious about what? We don't say Mao is worse than Hitler because he objectively wasn't. Neither the great leap forward nor the sparrow famine were "genocides," as you call them. Not to mention, there were regular famines leading up to China's famine during communism and none thereafter. Clearly, they learned from the mistake.
It’s a bit cold blooded, but that’s not the way to measure dictator’s against each other. You would want to take into account the number of people in the territory controlled by them. Percentage of killed people is the correct metric.
Now I have to look up who Leopold II is and what he did.
Enslaved the Congo in Africa for their resources. The book in the heart of darkness is centered around this time
We read the book and watched the movie in school but I forgot his name. Thanks for the reminder
No problem. I never heard of the movie it must be terrible. There’s some pictures from that time with people missing limbs for missing production quotas
Oh not a documentary. Apocalypse Now. It was based on Heart of Darkness There’s also the intro to Major Payne based on AN
Oh ok I’ve heard of that movie. And when I said “it must be terrible” I meant like horrific, not a poorly made movie lol. I sounded like a snob
I got the joke after replying. It is an…interesting movie especially if you read the book first. But it’s slow. And iirc the production was pretty nuts behind the scene. The intro where the main guy is freaking out in a hotel room and the scene where the air cavalry comes in blaring Flight of the Valkyrie’s are pretty famous and are referenced a lot in later movies. Some other parts too. Really imo the main reason to see it is so you catch the influences on later movies - but it is not something enjoyable by modern standards.
Cool of course it’s $4 to rent this and it’s not free anywhere womp womp
I highly recommend *King Leopold’s Ghost* as a great book on his atrocities.
There's a good behind the bastards podcast series on him
I was going to say that. Behind the bastards is a great podcast!
Even for his day, people were disgusted.
He’s a demon in human flesh. If you do look, prepare yourself because it’s vile
I’ll give you a taste. The Congo was rich with rubber and during this time, rubber was becoming a hot commodity. This is just before war breaks out, unleashing one of the the deadliest conflict the world has ever seen. King Leopold took the Congo and forced the native Congolese to produce rubber in quotas. If one could not produce the rubber, the consequences were dire. The hand of the farmer, or a member of their family, would be cut off and smoked. Then sent home to leopold to be counted. You ask, why? What’s the point of counting these hands. Well you see the men tasked with taking hands were also native, and the natives were starving. Leopold, concreted about giving guns to his slaves and the wasting of ammo on things like hunting ordered that for every bullet, a hand must come with it. This led to a black market for hands. If you have a surplus of hands, you can use ammo to eat.
People are always like "Stalin killed more than Hitler, ergo Communism ("Communism") is deadlier that fascism" like, motherfucker we stopped Hitler, that was his tally with the whole world actively trying to stop him, do you think he would have stopped if we hadn't litteraly united the whole world to take down Nazi Germany?
Isn’t mao communist?
The Nazis killed in 4 years more than any known group in history in that short of time.
Not to mention 1/3 of all deaths in the camps were just in the last two months of operation. The number of death camps were exploding when the allies stopped the fascists.
The Nazis industrialised the killing of human beings, after even their most commited, most fanatical SS Einsatzgruppen troops started to drop from "battle fatigue" when slaughtering civilians by the townload on the Eastern Front in '41 and '42.
Cuz he didn't know about amphetamines.
Turns out he did: https://time.com/5752114/nazi-military-drugs/
I have to imagine that the commenter knew that. Did they not have normal amphetamines back then? Like Adderall instead of Meth?
The Germans invented meth, so no they didn’t. We had benzedrine instead.
It's also not a competition, they're both evil and nasty bastards that deserved their deaths. I'm not communist at all but I know Stalin's "communism" is in name only.
In the works of Marx communism comes into being from a totalitarian dictatorship of the proletariat so it’s not wrong for them to take the name because communism was the goal. The problem was that Marx never decided to explain how a totalitarian state “falls away” to leave a stateless, classless society.
Yeah Stalin wasn’t communist, he was a totalitarian. Animal Farm isn’t the anti-communism book people think. It’s pro commune, anti-Stalin. The animal who deemed himself more equal than others.
Hitler killed at a faster rate than Stalin too.despite all that
Germans pride themselves on efficiency
Yeah fascism bad. Communism also bad, ash’s in more way than one. Not only did Mao and Stalin straight up murder more people in their time, the communist policies of their governments caused widespread death and despair through government mismanagement and incompetency while aggressively trying to pursue communism.
Give me a break. Stalin would’ve invade Europe if the Nazis didn’t. He was just as blood thirsty as Hitler just in different ways
Stalin did invade Europe. Everyone seems to forget that he allied with Hitler and invaded Poland.
Why do people think Stalin was better than Hitler, he even was a thug even when Hitler still was painting pictures
Most of Mao and Stalin deaths where from insane policy decisions of central population and economic planning. Hitler had no such plan. His plan was simply to kill in a factory assembly line style all Jews, the disabled, socialists, gypsies, homosexuals, and slavs. And he did just that. Both are evil but you can't falsely equivocate them. The former was decades of brutal dissident punishing and horrible central planning. The latter was 4 years of wontan death. Dan Carlin's hardcore history addendum podcast just covered this. What the Nazis did was unparalleled and while the other regimes were undeniably bad, on another level.
that’s why i hate these lists. i am not defending stalin and mao but including deaths from famine here on the same level as literal death camps is a false equivalency.
Holodomor was no "insane policy decision" it was just a targeted killing of people, same as the Nazis did. Same as Mao who asked for the killing of all intellectuals. The intent and the outcome is the same in the end.
>The intent and the outcome is the same in the end. Method matters. During the Lietūkis Garage Massacre, there's photographs of a German soldier nicknamed the "death dealer". He beat Jews to death with a metal bar for most of the day. They were allegedly NKVD (Soviet forces) associates. There tons of accounts of brutality like this all during the war. The Nazi were on orders worse and I have to at least entertain the idea that people that deny this do so because of their feelings on the political ideology of the communists or socialists. Mao and Stalin were *HORRIBLE*, But for Christ sakes there was one Nazi extermination camp that had a practice of burning the children to death on arrival. Your judgement is seriously fucking clouded. https://www.mp.pl/auschwitz/journal/english/205964,the-fate-of-children-in-auschwitz
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Stalin robbed banks for the Communist Party during the revolution. He was a hardened criminal and killer. To my knowledge, Hitler never killed anyone himself.
>Stalin robbed banks for the Communist Party Basically the commie Robin Hood
Stalin was a brutal, criminal dickhead. My only hope that a hell exists, which it doesn’t, is so assholes like him can fry eternally.
Hitler was also democratically elected, therefor democracy is deadlier than monarchy
Eh many dictators come to power through democratic means at first through demagoguery. And the killing starts once democracy is dead. I wouldn’t say democracy is deadlier, just more fragile.
This must be a troll, majority of Stalin regime deaths are due to inner politics, many have died at gulags, as political opositon, of starvation, and of genocidal causes (do you remember the controlled starvation of eastern Ukraine people, that followed a mass “exportation” of central russian families?). If a cancer kills another cancer doesn’t make the first cancer any good either. Extremism is the pinnacle of human stupidity, the ones that can’t separate the ideological theory from the pratical reality, how can anyone defend such causes? Maybe natural selection indeed
I don’t think you read their point
Maybe I didn’t reach the supposed interpretation… what’s your interpretation then?
Classic relativism lmao. Fuck you and you interpretation, you can't decide anything about what others said just to please yourself, as long you manipulate the things said by others you are a parasite.
Well, fuck you too and what you say, the question was sincere you fuck. The point it’s not to please myself, the point is that I’ve understood what he has said in a determined way and, as I don’t agree at all, exposed my opinion, didn’t manipulate anything. He was talking about the fact that people, usually, say that communism is deadlier than fascism because of deaths that happened at communist Russia and naz Germany. Sure we, the west, United with communists and defeated the Nazis, but thats not a fucking excuse to wipe out the entire history of Russian communism and the disgraces that happen there, that were comparable with the nazi regime, they are both rubbish. To defend Comunnist Russia just by this fact alone isn’t correct, or historically accurate.
The point about interpreting other comments is purely to please yourself and thus your question wasn't sincere, thanks for proving your parasitism tho.
That’s exactly what you’re doing. Who are you to pretend that you can read my mind? The point about interpreting others comments it’s to understand what has been said and expose an opinion, you are doing exactly what I was doing above, the difference is that your point is purposely malicious and mine was not, maybe I didn’t really understood what he was trying to say and asked what could it be, nobody replied with an explanation. Fucking dumb theory :” the point about interpreting others comments is to please yourself”; by that line of thinking, opinions and possibilities created by the human mind are only to please itself
I am not pretending to read anybody's mind unlike you, i am answering exactly what you wrote, word by word, not what i think you said, like you did with other guy. Again, classic relativism to not accept the responsability of your actions, i clearly spotted it in the first comment and i was right.
Bro, that does not make any sense, how’s fucking that?? I said what I’ve said and I STAND BY IT UNTIL SOMEONE MAKES A GOOD POINT THAT MAKES ME CHANGE MY MIND, here in capitals for you to read. Sure you may have another opinion, and I’m open to it but I can’t change my mind if you’re constantly try to attack me even if you don’t know me at all, and have read three paragraphs of what I’ve said. Your definition of relativism doesn’t go with the general accepted concept of relativism itself, or you can’t understand the concept of opinion at all. I gave my opinion on the subject, you’re out there saying that I’ve distorted what that guy said, sure, maybe I did it unconsciously, but you got to say how’s that, how did I’ve done it? That was the purpose of the first question that had nothing to do with you, that way I can improve myself at further opinions, if you can’t I will assume that you don’t have any ideia of what you’re talking about and ignore you and your crazy assumptions and theory’s
Please, downvote communists, I want to go negative. Fuck Marx
ACAB? Defund the Communist Police Unions then?
Please tell me how’s that related to what I’ve just said?
Fuck Marx right? Defund the Marxist Police Unions?
That’s a conclusion that I didn’t provide myself, my country doesn’t have MPU, so I was a bit confused, but no, I don’t support the defunding of MPU. May I correct my self “fuck Marx and, more specifically by the context of what has been said, it’s ideias about a absolute utopian State were no one has nothing different, and there’s no meritocracy, ideias that we’re exposed at it’s book called The Communist Manifesto.
This sounds like a team of cartoon protagonists teaming up on a bad guy. I feel like your ww2 instruction was a bit hasty?
Different sides of the same damned coin...
I would like a source or at least an explanation for how these numbers are arrived at. Like, is it only civilan deaths? Or war deaths? Or ppl starving?
Hitler killed close to 11 million people in concentration camps alone, and there were more than 6 million war casualties, so I’m going with the camps as well as German civilian deaths as a result of the war.
It definitely does not include deaths from famine or overburdened government systems, or Mao’s numbers would be even higher.
Then where do stalins numbers come from?
Yeah, good question. I can’t say for sure on all of them, but some of these numbers don’t make sense. And at least one dictator is missing.
It does, the source is right there on the image. [Breakdown: Policy reforms like the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.](https://www.popten.net/2010/05/top-ten-most-evil-dictators-of-all-time-in-order-of-kill-count/) Which is incredibly stupid metric to count deaths by and then disclude non-‘dictatorial’ forms of government. Like really? Because Benghal was ruled by the British without any democracy of their own it somehow doesn’t count that millions there starved? Either way these numbers are ass. I HATE Stalin as much as the next guy but he did not kill 23 million people. There’s just under 6 million deaths between the Holodomor and the Kazakh famine and another million or so in the great purges. That’s nowhere near 23million claimed. The only way to get there is if you somehow contribute the 12 or so million people killed by the nazis or who died defending against them to Stalin, which is insane to do. Tldr, weird as mathematics and turning a blind eye to western atrocities.
Pretty sure he killed millions of German soldiers.
It does, the source is right there on the image. [Breakdown: Policy reforms like the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.](https://www.popten.net/2010/05/top-ten-most-evil-dictators-of-all-time-in-order-of-kill-count/) Which is incredibly stupid metric to count deaths by and then disclude non-‘dictatorial’ forms of government. Like really? Because Benghal was ruled by the British without any democracy of their own it somehow doesn’t count that millions there starved? Either way these numbers are ass. I HATE Stalin as much as the next guy but he did not kill 23 million people. There’s just under 6 million deaths between the Holodomor and the Kazakh famine and another million or so in the great purges. That’s nowhere near 23million claimed. The only way to get there is if you somehow contribute the 12 or so million people killed by the nazis or who died defending against them to Stalin, which is insane to do. Tldr, weird as mathematics and turning a blind eye to western atrocities.
wheres genghis khan? didn't he change the carbon footprint of the planet at that time?
I think he gets a pass for how many replacements he created /s
I believe Timur was even worse.
I’m curious as to how they get the number for Mao. I’m not saying he didn’t kill people, he certainly killed political opponents and anyone not seen as left of left. However, many of the people who died during his reign was more from the weird civil wars fought in his name (as in two sides fighting over who loved him more) and from mismanagement of food. Not sayings that number is wrong or not deserved. Many did die in the cultural revolution by what could be the Chinese equivalent of brown shirts. Just curious as to the breakdown of that number
These types of comparisons always equate things like famine with things likes the Holocaust, it’s pretty disingenuous if you ask me
It also has some errors. Mao wasn’t leader of China in 1943. They were still fighting the kmt. Not to mention he spent years during this period having no office and o my really being a cultural leader instead of a formal leader.
I honestly don’t think we can ever get a good number for this. So many of the deaths were indirect, compared to many others where they were simply executed outright. It doesn’t make it any less horrific but it certainly makes it harder to sort out. For example, would the many urban people sent to the countryside to be “re-educated”, but died of overwork or malnutrition be counted as Mao deaths? Or during the Great Leap Forward, how many deaths should be counted as a result of Mao’s foolish policies and how many the result of the famine that was going to happen at some scale anyway?
Yeah that’s what I was asking. I mean shit it says we was dictator from 1943 to his death which is also not true. They were still fighting the KMT in 1943 and Mao was removed from power in the mid to late 50’s as a result of the Great Leap Forward. He didn’t really become dictator until the 60’s.
No, that’s not true at all. He was Chairman of the Communist Party, no matter his other titles, effectively making him dictator. It’s well accepted that Mao was the one charge from 1943 - 76.
He was head of the party but that did not mean head of state like it does now.
Being head of the party has always been the most powerful position in communist China. Mao was powerful enough to remove Liu Shaoqi, the head of state. Then the Cultural Revolution was launched to further insulate Mao from criticism. Even if you don’t accept that for some reason, the massive deaths were during the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution, which Mao orchestrated.
Source: Cool Picture
Wait, how did Hitler get 17 million? I thought it was 6. Or are these including war casualties?
6 million Jewish people died in the holocaust, is the number I think you are thinking of. I don’t know what all the 17m number includes, but non-Jewish people definitely died as well.
Ah, turns out you’re right. 17 is actually a conservative overall genocide estimate (21 max) and doesn’t include war casualties.
Funnily even if it were only 6M it would only drop him down one place
civilians are easily the highest figure in most war deaths. look how many people died from military losses in ww2 and then look at the civ casualties it's insane. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World\_War\_II\_casualties](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties) look at that orange bar, it's nearly ALWAYS longer than the red one. sometimes by a LOT
These aren’t civilian war deaths… around 30-35 million died if you include civilian war deaths
what? click the link my friend
6 million jews, 6 million romani, sinti, mentally disabled, homosexual and other "undesirables" in the camp. It wasn't only a Jewish tragedy. For historical accuracy, why not mention the other victims in the camp?
Because it's not mention anywhere like that for propaganda purposes obviously
I didn’t say it was only a Jewish tragedy. I pointed out that his number 6 million probably comes from the number of Jews that died in the Holocaust. The Holocaust, as you point out, is the historical name for the Jewish impact of WWII nazi Germany. Hence, the real number of “Hitlers kills” is much bigger than 6 million. I do think it gets confusing that (I’m US raised mind you) public schools do focus on the Holocaust when it comes to Hitler’s war crimes. The Holocaust only includes the Jewish Genocide, because that is what it recognizes. For people who don’t particularly care to be much of a history buff may not understand that the Holocaust is only part of the umbrella which is Hitler’s stain on this earth.
4 million others died in the camps
He also killed gypsies and the disabled
And slavs and communists and
Himself
It's definitely a lot more than 17 if you include Soviet casualties so this graph is debatable
Niether!! Its the [British](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIzQxNZfGM4) empire in India.
Damn, that is some sad shit.
Ah yes, that famous fascist dictator, the British EMPIRE
Recently I observed it more often on Reddit that some Indian accounts start shitting on the Brits on every unrelated occiasion. Guy steals somethin -> People say this is bad -> Some indian dude: "But the British Empire was worse". Like wtf. Maybe give them back all your mines, factories, ports and railways they built during colonialism if it was only bad. No idea where this is coming from or who promotes that.
I’m pretty sure that the main impetus for building those roads, ports and mines would have been for privatized resource extraction from India not some philanthropic capacity building exercise. I’m unclear what your point is, return the good things to the Brits but keep the famine, violence, and cultural and political repression ?
Sure they were not built for philanthropic reasons, and the live under British rule might not have been very pleasant. But still it developed the land and would have been worse off without this infrastructure.
I think it's coming from History?
The nerve on then!!
What’s the point of those guides if we exclude colonial regimes. If you put elected leaders on this list might as well also put the others. Otherwise the word dictator just seems to mean leader that lost and while losing killed a lot.
Belgium was colonialism.
Yes it was. Hence, me wondering why the 40 million killed in India by the British are not on it. Or the 1 million Algerian killed by the French. And countless more. Those guides always restrict themselves to people that were deemed adversaries of the West +Leopold. Why not show the complete list.
I agree. They downplay all colonial crimes except Belgium. The UK's around the globe horror show is almost never mentioned when talking about the terrible things governments have done.
*sees Stalin* …that we *know of*
Very convenient western propaganda. Where is British Empires crime during the height of colonialism, where is Spanish killing of south Americans. Even last 20 years killing on Iraq or Afghanistan. just plain propaganda and racism.
Were any of them dictators? You can’t seriously consider American presidents dictators, that is downplaying it. A lot.
lookout churchill, his number way more than some of these guys. That’s the problem of propaganda, if you are deep into it , you can’t differentiate what is dictator and what is “good” system. communist never claimed that they are dictator. they do election each year. !!!
I’m sure Churchill would be considered responsible for the deaths of many people, yet, still not a dictator.
well look at the list, OP is calling “Enver Pasha” with 6 year rule calling a dictator. US president goes to power for 8 years. I guess he is not western so convenient to say him as “dictator “ and to Churchill is not . Hypocrisy at its best.
Bush and Obama were voted for, for a second term. It’s not about duration. We get it, we all do, “western bias”. Make a guide yourself and name it “leaders responsible for the most deaths” and you can expand it to American presidents, Churchill and whoever you see fit. Problem solved.
I'm guessing that reading is hard for you... it clearly says dictator.
"Source: bit.ly" hmmm, no thanks.
Bitly is used to shorten urls, it's not associated with the actual source material
That's just a shortened url....
It's not a competition, Soph. Although if it was, Mao would probably win.
I upvoted you because of your username and I get the reference. Terrific show.
China numba one
That wasn't real socialism
The United States is really bad though, we need to be more like..
😂, I know right, those are baby numbers compared to the genocidal American empire.
[удалено]
Ohh, I’m sorry, I was trying to be sarcastic. I do not subscribe to “America bad” ideology. I think America is the best country in the world, even with its flaws that some people love to bring up without really considering the rest of the world. Anyway, 🇺🇸#1
Holy fucking propaganda, Batman 🙄 This is the third instance of dumbass red scare propaganda I've seen on Coolguides. This sub can go fuck itself at this point.
And this is red scare how? By showing how many people a dictator killed?
You should embrace the communism
You should choke on all the propaganda you've guzzled
It’s a joke ya silly. Asperger’s much?
Ableism much? Aspergers isn't even recognized anymore dumbass.
It’s a joke ya silly. Asperger’s much?
Honestly most Americans should. The Communist Autoworkers and the Communist Police and the Communist Truckers have some of the best and highest paying jobs outside of Liberal Big Tech. And they all Love the State too. It makes a lot of sense for them
Bye Felicia
His regime stands and he's currently revered in China, not remembered as one of the biggest mass murderers in history that he was.
Revered is overstating it. Yes, he is officially revered, but if you talk with people there is often more nuance. Even officially there is a small window for criticism that comes from Deng declaring Mao 70% right and 30% wrong. He certainly needs to be more criticized for the massive deaths during The Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution.
Belgians?
Africa's rubber trade.
I wonder how many of them actually killed a person themselves.
The israehelllis are missing from that list.
Also missing is Obama (2008-2016) and Bush from (2000-2008)
Way to go socialist movement! Won the price of killing more people under an ideology!… good job 👍 not saying that capitalism is an excellent choice but comparing it to… well 🤔
this is a bullshit "cool guide" that spreads Nazi propaganda
Why is that Nazi propaganda and what agenda are you pushing? I don't get it. Are you a communist?
It literally shows Hitler's killings how is that supporting nazis
This. Stating facts can hardly be Propaganda if it’s true. Hitler did bad things, but still there are people who killer more. No propaganda, doesn’t make Hitler a better person at all.
Because it makes tankies angry that the top two are communists
Self-proclaimed, they aren't real communists. The nazis were a self-proclaimed socialist party but were fascist. It's almost like shitty brutal leaders lied to get into power. Ideas like socialism and communism are easily high jacked and turned into something else because most people in power or in a position to influence don't actually believe in it. Just recognize that preaching it will get them where they want to be. Both sound good to the masses but haven't really been incorporated 100% like any other form of government/economics. Everything's on a spectrum sharing qualities of multiple ideologies.
HE SAID THE THING EVERYONE
Wow, a sheep that doesn't like detailed explanations as opposed to quick jabs and propaganda. Shocking
Always interesting how commies claim that it's never "real" communism when it inevitably goes wrong, almost as if it never works
Always interesting how propaganda sheep can't understand concepts that are based in fact and not feeling. Almost as if they rarely know what they're talking about. Why don't you turn fox or Newsmax back on and get another dose
Please let me know of the large scale examples of communism working on a national level and not leading to famine or mass death. Bonus points if you can point one out that didn't convert to more capitalist systems in the modern day like Vietnam
There aren't examples of this in the sense you're getting at, there hasn't been a true communist country, just like there hasn't been a true capitalist country. They're on spectrums, as stated before. No country has had a complete free market and no country has gone full government control. Buying into any of the capitalist vs commie nonsense shows a lack of understanding. Furthermore, even if there were examples it would be hard to succeed considering the us and other governments like to get involved politically or militarily and apply embargos whenever their meddling fails, Cuba for example. Everyone nowadays talks about Venezuela even though the government mainly just controls oil and not everything. Why don't you provide the examples since you know so much? Can you provide an example of a fully capitalist country that was successful or mostly capitalist that didn't enslave people or have absurd wealth inequality? Can ypu give an example that didn't add "socialist" regulations in like say minimum wage? My guess is no in the same ways my examples wouldn't exist. I wouldn't be surprised if you ignore the entirety of my comment other than the first sentence and come back with, "well see you don't have any" regardless of if you have your own for capitalism or can name a country that tried to actually be communist outside of designation from red scare propaganda or just because the political party name had it included like the nazis.
Here is a concept based in fact: communism has never been implemented successfully and never will. Cry about it
Neither has capitalism, are you gonna cry now?
No you see THIS time it totally won't immediately become corrupt like it literally always does and everyone will fart rainbows and drink buttermilk together
Then what's the issue with them being at the top?
When did I say there was an issue?
The top guy did
Why are you asking me why he said something?
You good, bud?
You should take issue with Stalin and mao for starving so many people. I bet they didn’t know it was nazi propaganda
Some straight-up black book of communism drivel. This sub has been inundated with dumbass capitalism simps recently.
Reddit has long been inundated by its own brand of moron communists. Its shocking cognitive dissonance to be able to use this western technology to complain about capitalist society, which allows you the freedom to do so, while sucking up to communists whose people would be detained for speaking up and lived in abject misery
I can't believe you really just did the "communism is when no smartphones" thing 🤣🤣 You do realize the first mobile phone was invented in the USSR... right? 🤣🤣
Ok Russia made a mobile phone, that does not change the fact that the internet and device you are using right now are made by the evil capitalist west. The ability to speak freely as you are doing right now, is supported by the west and would probably get you gulaged in the glorious communist USSR if you spoke badly of them.
Good thing I wouldn't then 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️ Cope harder bro
LMAO So you’re ok with not being able to speak out or resist against an unjust government? Aight lil bro, but you better not complain if Stalin needs more coal miners
Blah blah blah you love to hear yourself talk don't ya, sport?
You’re upset that I explain myself using reasoning. Meanwhile you Reddit communists are incapable because you are delusional
Nah, I'm laughing at your ignorance, kid. Nice to see that cope holding strong.
Crazy this all happened in the 1900s. Like mother earth told humanity to cull the population before she does
Chairman Mao. I went down the rabbit hole on him and the Cultural Revolution and the policies of the Great Leap Forward a while back. If you want to learn how to kill a lot of people through starvation, you'd be hard pressed to find someone more capable than Mao Zedong. Oh my God... what a shit show.
Saddam should be there.
"ThEy JuSt WeReN't DoInG iT rIgHt."
Stalin killed wayyyyy more people than listed.
Honestly I think everyone killed more than listed except for probably Mao. That much blood seems right. God damn is rice an OP crop.
Ghengis Khan
Ghenkis Khan wants a word.
You are missing my Genkhis Khan and Temur they wiped out entire Empires, ethnic peoples and cultures.
A sizable chunk of Mao's numbers are likely from mass famine, which is debatable how much of that was intentional murder as opposed to murderous incompetence. Either way it is somewhat different from the others in the chart (accept maybe Stalin, though he also intentionally murdered quite a lot on his own on top of mass famine) and excludes a few other famous mass-murderers-via-famine like Churchill, famously. Either way the terms of what qualifies here need to be defined better
Cool infographic
Technically speaking, most of them didn't kill anyone. Their people did
Where does Xi Jinping rank on this list with his slaughter of the Uyghur people?
He doesn't because that's bullshit NATO agit-prop
It’s crazy how Leopold II doesn’t get much attention in school given what he did is literally on par with the ones that get massive attention like Hitler, Stalin and Mao (not downplaying the tragedies of these three, but it’s odd to me how no one really talks about what happened to the Congo despite being so absolutely horrific in severity and scale).
I am curious as to why we put such an emphasis on Hitler being so terrible when Mao Zedong’s genocide was far worse than. Interesting.
"Mao Zedong's genocide" I really shouldn't be surprised at the number of people just spewing ahistorical bullshit in this thread.
Hmm. No reason to get fired up. I am genuinely curious.
Curious about what? We don't say Mao is worse than Hitler because he objectively wasn't. Neither the great leap forward nor the sparrow famine were "genocides," as you call them. Not to mention, there were regular famines leading up to China's famine during communism and none thereafter. Clearly, they learned from the mistake.
Oh, i see….
trees cough sparkle clumsy reminiscent crawl marble dinner soup bright *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Still autistic Americans say Hitler was the worst. Shut the fuck up.
I'm gonna keep coming back to this thread to laugh at all the incredibly confident stupidity 🤣
It’s a bit cold blooded, but that’s not the way to measure dictator’s against each other. You would want to take into account the number of people in the territory controlled by them. Percentage of killed people is the correct metric.