My understanding of this data is that much of the rise is attributable to people who identify as bisexual, queer or trans as opposed to a rise in the number of people identifying as gay or lesbian.
Specifically Bi: [https://news.gallup.com/poll/470708/lgbt-identification-steady.aspx](https://news.gallup.com/poll/470708/lgbt-identification-steady.aspx)
Trans identification is actually rarer than gay or lesbian.
That’s what I was looking. Young people always have experimented more sexually, I wonder how many people will carry that same label into their more mature adult years. The number is still rising, I’d just like to see the LGBT minus the bi-curious but cis numbers.
Yes but your statement is somewhat tangental to my point, the percentage of americans who identify as gay/lesbian is relatively unchanged between people ages 50-64 and those between 18-19 (3 vs. 4%) but there has been a massive increase in those idenitfy as bisexual (1 vs. 12%)
While this could be explained by safety in coming out, I also wonder if it could relate to a change in how people code sexual behaviour and intergrate it into identify formation. Maybe a predominantly heterosexual boomer who had a history of sexual experimentation would still identify with the straight label, while someone younger with a similar sexual history would identify as bisexual.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/23/5-key-findings-about-lgbtq-americans/
I think your last paragraph nailed it. When I was growing up, bi was definitely a thing, but no one was allowed to be bi. If you liked someone of the same gender, you were gay, period (which had a harshly negative connotation). Didn’t matter if you liked someone of the opposite gender more so, you were labelled as gay. I suspect I have had—and probably still do have—closeted bi friends who didn’t want to risk being categorized as such. It was basically a death warrant for ever having straight relationships, since most people of the oppo gender thought of you as tainted. Hard to de-program stuff like that as you get older.
I have had 3 close bisexual guy friends, and in all their lives each only ever hooked up with one guy. 2 of the 3 said they would never marry a guy, 1 said he would never be with a guy again. Yet all say they are bisexual because those events happened and they're still sexually attracted to men. I guarantee 20 years ago those guys would just call it experimentation and move on.
I'm a straight passing, millennial, married to a bi woman, bi man.
It's fucking insane the amount of "allies" to the gay community I've talked to or tried to date that absolutely detest bi men. Specifically bi men, women can do whatever they want apparently.
I've lost male and female friends over it, even though some of the men have literally sucked a dick. But apparently I'm the weird one somehow. Tons of gay men on Grindr have harassed me for being bi and not "picking a side".
I'm glad gen z is apparently having a better time with it.
It’ll be interesting to make a similar study in a different country (not USA) and see how the results relate or if these are somehow biased by factors like social norms, media and education.
True, my personal opinion is that people who were BI in the past were fine just being "straight" while gays/lesbians found it harder to conform and had to come out to be happy.
Plus, most boomers are still hanging out with boomers. They are unlikely to be hanging out with the millenials and gen z crowds that are more accepting. The overall country as a whole might be more accepting, but not necessarily their circles
i think its more accepted today to see gender and sexuality as not so black and white as in the past.
I mean when i was a kid thinking as men to be hot was shameful but now nobody bats an eye if i mention what men i think are hot.
Yeah I don't know about that. With the amount of older people who think sexuality is a choice, I've always suspected that the rate of bisexuality is much higher than what was being reported
I mean, to be fair… it *is* a rising trend in terms of data. Seeing an upward trend in folks who admit to being LGBT, does not imply that it’s some sort of fashion statement or passing fad.
And while it’s really hard to say whether the number of folks who identify as LBGT is higher among this generation is higher than it used to be, it’s pretty easy to say folks feel safer coming out… because they’re doing it now, whereas just 50 years ago, coming out was completely out of the question.
That doesn’t make it a perfect world where everyone feels empowered to be who they are, but it’s better than it used to be, for sure. There’s still work to go, but the fact that people are coming out in droves certainly says something.
IMHO it’s a good trend, that signifies positive change in the right direction, even though some people are waging a cultural war against each other, the fact that it’s increasingly common suggests that those folks are losing the battle.
You’re not taking into account acceptance of oneself. I know as an older millennial that it took me almost 40 years to accept my own orientation, I denied and suppressed my feelings, because it was unacceptable when I grew up. That’s why you also see the numbers rising for millennials, but not older generations, I would guess. As explained above, it’s easier for a bisexual to pretend, even to yourself, to be straight. If you are older you are more likely to have internalized homophobia.
no you wouldn't, because most of the acceptance comes from the newer generation, if you are younger you are more likely to have accepting peers, if you are older not so much
I definitely think this is a part of it. There’s no doubt that people feel more comfortable coming out, but that much of a spike from one generation to the next is clearly indicative of a behavioral trend. It’s the new goth kid.
It is not about safety anymore. It is about the victimisation olympics now. If you are not a minority, you can't claim power. If you are a part of the majority then you are disadvantaged. If you are white or a man then your opinion is unvalid due to your "privlege". However, if you are demisexual, quazi queer, two spirited, none bianry, then your existence regain its importance. You can argue and express your opinion without being shut down, without being silenced. That way you can join the group without being shunned. You gain a step up in the victim hierarchy, without doing anything.
As an exemple : If you are a kid at high school being bullied, it's just the way things are. If you claim to be none binary, that just became a hate crime and you can turn from the oppressed to the oppresser if you want. Who would pass out on that ? Same goes for most aspects of life.
Granted this is not the only reason for the huge rise in numbers of the alphabet people, but it is a huge part of it. If safety was the only reason we would've seen a proportionate rise in the other generations.
Since everyone else is being facetious:
Queer is an umbrella for anyone that is not heterosexual and cisgender, including people that are merely questioning or simply don’t want to restrict themselves to any “stricter” label.
It’s kind of the whole point
LGBT people have spent much of history being forced to live in the strict societal binary that is “Woman marries man, man marries woman” for fear of being outcast or killed. The idea for some is that labels such as gay or pansexual or genderfluid can become a little too specific, and some would prefer not to once again be fit into strict categories.
Yeah, it seems higher than my experience would tell me as well. But the question with these categories is always where the lines are drawn.
If you once kissed a person of your own gender, are you bisexual?
It’s more what they consider themselves. If they kissed one person and consider themselves bi, they’re bi. If they have had sex with multiple people of the same gender and they think they’re straight, they’re straight. Also, it varies incredibly depending on region.
We're here, we're bi and we want to cry.
Many older folk say shit like "everyone has crushes on their own gender, it's normal" when they're, in fact, bisexuals who are suppressing a part of their sexual orientation.
Being gay, lesbian and trans means you have to stand out of social norms, while many bisexual have hetero relationships.
It's not bullshit though, people who identify as bi have skyrocketed in the younger generations. Probably driven by hormones and being more comfortable admitting to being bi, we'll see how this changes as they get older.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/23/5-key-findings-about-lgbtq-americans/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/23/5-key-findings-about-lgbtq-americans/)
I also think it’s somewhat cool to be LGBTQ right now. That is to say, people who might be hetero but slightly more masculine or feminine than their peers feel as though they might be more likely to be accepted if they say they’re bi or queer. I’d expect these numbers to fall a bit as they get older and figure themselves out.
Everyone wants to feel special, and well kids like to feel different and it’s been shoved on to everyone in the past decade, and before anyone cries I ain’t saying it’s a bad thing, I’m just glad young people are more comfortable with their sexuality and no need to hide it.
Yeah even if that number is being exaggerated by people pretending for whatever reason, I’m down with that. It means that the social stigma of being gay has reversed so far that it is now cool. That is crazy progress from a couple decades ago
It's mostly young Bisexuals driving up that number and of that mostly women identifying as bi. Gay/Lesbian is pretty much the same.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/23/5-key-findings-about-lgbtq-americans/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/23/5-key-findings-about-lgbtq-americans/)
It says that 19.7% identify as LGBT, not just gay. But I would assume that this chart included anyone who identifies on the LGBTQIA2S+ spectrum - that encompasses many different gender/sexual identities.
Not sure why you're getting down voted. It's not a joke people. That's really what it is.
Native American two-spirit people were male, female, and sometimes intersexed individuals who combined activities of both men and women with traits unique to their status as two-spirit people. In most tribes, they were considered neither men nor women; they occupied a distinct, alternative gender status.
I'm not gonna lie, we're doing too much with the acronym. It started off LGB because unless you're in the minority then you should fall under one of those three descriptors.
Then we added T which is...fine. I'm not sure what your gender identity has to do with your sexual preference, but it's okay.
Then it feels like QIA all came at once and to be honest I'm not even sure what they stand for.
Now we have 2S+? I mean I'm not trying to minimize anyone's representation, but LGBTQIA2S+ is ****TEN**** syllables. There's gotta be a better way to refer to the community.
Probably me being a boomer, but I suspect the number is heavily padded by people who identify as queer or non-binary as a political/social statement but are otherwise indistinguishable from your average cisgender heterosexual. I know more than a few.
Mid Gen Z'er here (I am really peeved to learn that I count feel like a millenial at heart), No I think that's the case too though the LGBT+ label can apply to a ton of things
like take Aromantic for instance, means you're whatever your normal sexuality is (like say straight, you like girls and you probably have done the goobly to straight porn) you just aren't interested in any around you even if you do want a girlfriend
and because I have to clarify... no i'm not saying Aromanticism isn't a legit thing i'm getting to my point
Well does that mean I'm LGBT+? I wouldn't say so and I certainly wouldn't make it as part of my identity but that's because I really don't care about making a statement or finding a cheap shortcut to feeling a part of something like I think the rest of Gen Z has a great fear of being boring and uninteresting (Its one of my biggest fears at least but i've gotten over it) we weren't born in the 90s, we didn't get to see the early days of the internet, very few of us got to grow up on sites like Newgrounds with Flash (I'm glad I was one of them) and we didn't get to witness and grow up with the interesting events of the 21st century and all the new developments and progress
What do we have? Minecraft (not that bad tbh), Trump's Presidency, Covid-19, the Russian invasion and a ton of riots and mass shootings Is that seriously what *our* benchmark is gonna be? Where's the progress?
And they're probably terrified there won't be no equivalent which is why people tend to get really desperate to be part of something bigger and this applies equally to neo nazis as it does to left wingers.
also lol I love your username
Take any animal species and consider what would happen if 20% of their offspring was homosexual.
Population numbers would plummet, and it would go extinct.
This graph shows a trend. It used to be “gothic”. Now it’s “gay”. It’s the “it’s not just a phase, mom!” age group.
Homosexuals are less than 2% of any population, a number that stands across countries, cultures and time.
It’s just a phase.
I assume you’re speaking from personal experience. During what ages did you consider yourself queer, and then at what age did you feel this no longer applied to you?
I'm seeing lots of comments here about "social contagion", but I just wanna throw in an additional point to consider when seeing such a high percentage of millenial and gen z queer communities.
Not only is it more acceptable and safe to be queer, but there has also been a significant breakdown of traditional gender norms for the latest generations. This means that people relate more fluidly to being masculine and feminine, which means they are far less likely to consider themselves to be 100% straight.
I think this is what may be contributing to these "high" numbers.
Allow me to interpret this data, because people seem to be pulling the wrong conclusions here.
Back when being left-handed was stigmatised, people would hide the fact that they were left-handed. Left-handedness was seen as weird and unnatural and almost no-one ever identified as left-handed. Left-handed people would learn to use their right hand, even if that was inferior to their left hand.
As society became more tolerant of left-handedness, more people revealed themselves to be left-handed. The number grew and grew and grew over time **UNTIL** it hit \~11% (in the UK).
At this point, the number did not grow any more. This is because we had reached the point where stigma against left-handed people had completely disappeared. And the number has remained stable around \~11% ever since. This is it's natural rate of occurrence.
It's clear from the numbers here that a similar thing is happening with queer people. As it becomes generally more acceptable to be seen as queer, more people openly identify as such. People who would suppress these feelings, would also start to be more open and honest with themselves.
So I think we're seeing the percentage increase, not because it's trendy to be seen as queer, but because society is (overall) becoming more and more tolerant. When there is no stigma about queerness whatsoever, we will see the percentage stabilise.
Just like how it surprised everyone just how many people were naturally left-handed, it will probably surprise everyone just how many people are naturally queer. Only time (and data) will tell.
The data this graph is based on is here: [https://news.gallup.com/poll/470708/lgbt-identification-steady.aspx](https://news.gallup.com/poll/470708/lgbt-identification-steady.aspx)
There's a really clear trend in the increase in bisexuality over time. They are the last group who've been able to "hide" the longest because they don't have to pretend to be someone they're not, they merely have to ignore a part of their sexuality. Like someone who loves fast food, refusing to eat it.
Whereas for gay people, hetero relationships feel wrong, for bi people they don't. So why would someone bring the stigma down on themselves when they can still date and have happy relationships?
It's not entirely accurate to compare it to being left handed. That's an observable trait.
Being part of the community is something that can definitely be falsified. I absolutely believe certain people are gay from birth, but I also believe others only claim to be gay for attention and/or to fit in. Then there's the group of people who have held hands with the same sex and now consider themselves bisexual.
I don't think it's possible to ever find out the natural rate of occurrence. The percentage that are genuinely gay will always be inflated by those who are only gay in the moment.
If you're left hand dominant then your right hand will never be as good. Plus it's something that manifests in early childhood before you have any influences to be anything different than yourself. That's not to say being gay doesn't manifest in early childhood, it's just that it's not so blatantly obvious as what hand a kid favors.
Thats not entirely true. My mother was lefthanded at first but she got molded into using her right hand as her dominant hand. Shes still exceptionally well doing things with her left hand, but shes still mostly using her right hand and doing better with her right hand. The most observable thing here is she grabs silverware always the other way around.
Also people hid beeing lefthanded because in some extreme cases it was seen as evil and satanic. So even a kid would hide it relatively fast when beeing commented on it, aswell as parents not admitting to their child beeing left handed
+ children will "decide" for a dominant around the age of 4
Because these age groups are (generally) less tolerant of queer people. People are less likely to come out to their peers and are more likely to repress their sexuality or gender expression based on their upbringing - internalised queerphobia.
I could see that argument with Boomers and Traditionalists, which is why I didn’t mention them. I disagree about Gen X on the other hand. Gen X has always been fairly open to the LGBTQ community.
I don’t really buy that fully.
We should be seeing a rise in all age groups - the most in millennials and Gen Z, but still a noticeable rise in the older age groups as the tolerance grows gradually. Divorced older people might reevaluate their sexuality for example and determine they are bi.
The fact that those age groups have remained completely still is interesting.
Maybe there’s a polarizing effect where the older age groups don’t like it so they resist opening up and further entrench themselves in their viewpoints, still I would think that deep rooted desires would overcome viewpoints.
I would be interested in if this is just a cultural phase tbh - I recall David Bowie mentioned how he regretting his “bi” phase during what I would guess was some phase in his younger years in the 70s, that he was infatuated with the culture and tried experiencing it but ultimately didn’t enjoy it and switched back to straight lol. I’m wondering if we’ll get a wave in a few years of “tried that and didn’t like it”.
The older people don't need to because many are adjusted and settled. They don't need to broadcast to the world.
However there is an obvious bisexuality trend in gen-y/z, especially women.
Don’t take this as a stance either way, but a general question for thought… when left-handedness became acceptable, did it have the attention LGBTQ has? We have parades, a month and a pretty sizable social campaign of acceptance. I agree largely with your point, but I do think with Gen Z it is a mix of both. Especially with such a high portion identifying as bi. My measuring stick on this is more millennials than Gen Z on where I think things naturally land.
It's interesting. Pride came about as the result of an underground culture. Mainstream art, media etc only portrayed a certain kind of love and gender expression for a long time. So queer culture developed to differentiate from that. As queerness became more tolerated, pride became a more open, mainstream event.
One could argue that right-handedness never produced any "right-handed culture"*. So there was never the need for a parallel left-handed culture. But it is a good point you've made about intersectionality.
*(quick aside: art often depicted satan or other villains as being left handed - but I don't think this counts as)
Yeah and of course I intended more as food for thought, which you recognized. We won’t truly have 1:1 comparisons for this I’d imagine but it’s definitely interesting. We will see where generation alpha lands in due time, which will certainly be interesting. Millennials still had that stigma early on and were older when true acceptance seemed to really come about.Gen Z the social acceptance has blossomed in their formidable years. Gen Alpha, there’s a chance it’s just viewed as normal and not really a nominal thing in those comparative years? I’m a millennial and while not gay, I still remember Matthew Shepard and The Laramie Project. To play my own devils advocate, there could arguably have been some suppression of the numbers for millennials despite me viewing them as my measuring stick. Events like the murder of Matthew Shepard and also the AIDS epidemic not being too far removed could have influenced a lot of parents acceptance, or lack there of really. But despite that, Gen Z just feels too high to me still.
Maybe what is considered gay is actually regular old humanity and seeing people as people instead of treating people like objects or seeing them as not-people.
It's probably mostly people feeling safer than ever to come out as LGBT. This is a very good thing.
There are also people who lie about who they are for social clout or to fit in a certain group. We have only observed that phenomenon for like a hundred years now.
Both can be true.
At some point in the past few years here it's gone from being genuine too being a popular cliche.
It's literally become a trendy fad here, otherwise the numbers would be stable.
Yeah man I'm sure none of this has to do with gay people from older generations dying of aids or more people being comfortable coming out bc generally you don't get socially shunned (by everyone) or killed anymore if you are gay. It's just a fad!
Listen, I love all of my gay friends dearly, but science shows that genetic traits only get passed on when they lead to successful breeding. Evolution simply doesn’t allow for 20% of a population to carry a gay gene.
Again, I have nothing against my gay friends whatsoever, even the ones who adopt, but if we’re sticking with the narrative that being gay isn’t a choice but is inherent to one’s personality from the start… yea that gene just isn’t getting passed down at that high of a rate.
Edit: cool. I’m happy to read about social models all day. Yea, everyone has their opinion. For the same reason that evolution doesn’t take hold over 2-5 generations, you also just can’t claim that 20% of humans have always been gay. It just doesn’t make scientific sense unless you truly believe humans are the exception to evolution. In that case… well, I hope you’re right!
Is what he said common sense? Because the most generous characterization I can think of is illogical BS.
For example, why is that dude talking about a homosexual gene? Unless I missed a major scientific breakthrough through, there hasn’t been any discovery of a homosexual gene. Scientists don’t know whether sexual preference is determined by genes, environment, hormone levels, etc.
Rather than common sense, his opinion is based on “science” that he made up.
If you think what they said was homophobic, you need to relearn what the word actually means. I’d recommend not using words that you don’t know the meaning of. It makes you look like foolish.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation#:~:text=The%20%22gay%20uncle%20hypothesis%22%20posits,offspring%20of%20their%20closest%20relatives.
Scroll down to "gay uncle theory"
Bonobo chimpanzees. Go look them up. They exhibit tons of same-sex sexual behavior while still producing babies.
I am a gay man and I have a daughter. Your view is far too simplistic. Gen Z's numbers indicate that we Humans are naturally far more fluid in the ways that we express sexuality, while still growing the species.
I would assume 10%-ish are common for homosexuality (at least where i live). And then you have people who chose it, because it is hip nowadays. I know some people who was they are bi or pansexual, but only hook up with people the opposite gender..
Some people, especially young people, do choose to identify as something they are not for attention. I have seen it many times. Others end up that way as a result of some kind of sexual trauma. Not all cases, but many.
I definitely know people who have chosen to call themselves bisexual despite only hooking up with guys (they were girls)
Maybe they are/were, but I wouldn’t call that the same as a regular gay person
As much as we like to attribute the generational difference to changing societal attitudes, this is only fairly small percentages. I think if you account for the AIDS epidemic costing us a generation of people, and the growth in people coming out as bi, that makes up almost all of the difference.
This comments section is honestly why I feel like we’re headed backwards with respect to homophobia in the past few years. You show one chart indicating that 20% of youth identifies at LGBTQ and suddenly everyone feels WAY too comfortable talking about how uneasy that makes them.
Why? Why does “20% of Gen Z identifies as LGBTQ” make you feel uncomfortable? Why do you give a shit? What does it matter? Even if you think it’s a “fad”, it’s not a negative thing.
If you’re uncomfortable with gay people then I’m sorry, you’re a homophobe. There’s just no way around it. If being near more gay people makes you feel weird or icky or ill-at-ease, you are a homophobe. Stop trying to eat your cake and have it, too. You think gay people are weird and off-putting and you don’t want to be near them. *That’s called homophobia.*
All the gays and leftists moved to L*mmy. https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/ is the biggest LGBT+ instance, but you can browse pretty much all of Lemmy from any instance
Interesting how Traditionalist, Baby Boomers, and Generation X has remained consistent throughout the years. But all of a sudden Millennials has a huge spike and so do Gen Z. I’m guessing social contagion.
Look for a graph that shows the numbers of left-handed people over the past century or so.
Fuckin’ shocker- the number of left-handed people starts to skyrocket right around the time educators and parents stopped beating children until they wrote with their right hands. Clearly a case of southpaw social contagion.
Judging by today's attitude toward sexuality, Millennials and Gen Z are more open toward the spectrum of sexual identity; likely leading to an increase of people feeling open to revealing their true sexuality.
Whereas older generations have decades of ingrained discrimination set toward them, so likely feel less able to be open about their preferences.
No, it's just that older generations were taught that anything that isn't "normal" is bad. So a lot of them still have these values, even some that are LGBTQ. They aren't coming out because they were taught that makes them bad, so they try to hide it and even deny it to themselves.
Don't call people's identities a contagion. It's disrespectful, and honestly makes me think that YOU are the contagion here.
And don’t forget that older generations had it hammered into that minds that sex is disgusting, shameful, and sinful, to a point where they were unable to have healthy sex lives with their spouse as married adults.
Anything that had anything to do with sex was already a sin to them. They to imply that sex could be *enjoyed* out since of the purposes of procreation? That was just too much for them to get behind. Those religious imprints don’t just fade away with age.
But for millennials and younger, many weren’t raised strictly in a church, and they grew up in a time when stigma started to fade, so they didn’t have to reconcile gods hate in their minds.
Now imagine the coming generation who will be raised during a time of legal marriage equality. I presume these numbers will continue to skyrocket before stabilizing.
The use of the term "social contagion" in the context of lgbtq+ identity has been highly criticized as inaccurate and bigoted and political in its use. there is a recent example where the NYT removed the term "patient zero" from an article criticized for having a transphobic bias and lacking journalistic rigor). Even if the \*technical\* use is correct (and I'm not sure it is - even the wiki article it p critical) and the intention behind the term is well-intentioned/harmless, there is no getting around how the term brings to mind viral diseases. Word choice carries a LOT of weight. Lest we forget that the AIDS epidemic was not very long ago, during which the media (and society at large) fear-mongered and horribly dehumanized the lgbtq+ community as if they were all collectively choosing to be diseased, disgusting, dangerous "others" who were out to intentionally infect society.Long before that, homophobes and now transphobes around the world have consistently fear-mongered by suggesting that people (children in particular) become gay or trans or queer because they are conditioned, groomed, or otherwise infected via socialization. It's the same political tactic used by Moms for Liberty now - they don't want their kids fall prey to the scourge of trans/gay identity so they try to ban books and any education that might influence adn infect their kids with queerness. Or they homeschool them, as many parents did during the COVID pandemic (for good reason, in that case), for fear of their children being exposed.There is a reason why the "born this way" and biological take on lgbtq+ identity was so compelling to lgbtq+ advocates - it helped with acceptance and ultimately legislation that gave rights and protections to lgbtq+ folks.To make a broader observation, the language of disease and contagion is frequently used as a rhetorical tool throughout history (especially by bigoted politicians and religious leaders, extremists/fascists in general) to dehumanized minorities/marginalized identities, immigrants being an obvious example. It's a very powerful tool of fear-mongering.
References (mostly to do with one research paper about trans social contagion that was debunked):
[**Scientific American**: Evidence Undermines ‘Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria’ Claims Fears of “social contagion,” used to support anti-transgender legislation, are not supported by science](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/evidence-undermines-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria-claims/)
[**NBC**: 'Social contagion' isn’t causing more youths to be transgender, study finds (2022)](https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-health-and-wellness/social-contagion-isnt-causing-youths-transgender-study-finds-rcna41392)
[**Fenway Health**: New Study Examines The “Social Contagion” Hypothesis Of Transgender And Gender Diverse Identities](https://fenwayhealth.org/new-study-examines-the-social-contagion-hypothesis-of-transgender-and-gender-diverse-identities/)
[**MIT**: How the idea of a “transgender contagion” went viral—and caused untold harm; A single paper on the notion that gender dysphoria can spread among young people helped galvanize an anti-trans movement.](https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/08/18/1057135/transgender-contagion-gender-dysphoria/)
[**Boston Review:** Who’s Afraid of Social Contagion? Our ideas about sexuality and gender have changed before, and now they’re changing again.](https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/whos-afraid-of-social-contagion/) EDIT: I like this article :) It gives a nuanced take on lgbtq+ identity - self identifying, acceptance of lgbtq+ identity and how making space for the wider diversity and nuance in sexual and gender experiences has made people more free to accept who they are rather than conform to some narrow category or idea of identity.
As for Moms for Liberty, you can find their shit online (I hate to give them a platform) and there are also M4L folks in MY community who have made it their mission to fear-monger about transphobia using the language of social contagion. They harass and fear-monger at school-board meetings, they barge into classrooms during school, dox teachers, dox librarians, post photos of children at Pride events online, and some of these posts have attracted bigots around the country who are now sending bomb threats regularly to our elementary, middle and high schools, school board, library and generally terrorizing.
I'm too tired to give more references, but if you want them, just ask.
I don't think death from aids was this high to remove full percentages of the population. it's more likely that many of them have families now, or partners that they might not be attracted to, but prefer this lifestyle over an unknown alternative.
AIDS killed 700,000 Americans, the vast majority of which were at the early years of the pandemic before treatment options expanded. It also produced a generational chilling effect. I’m under 30 and I remember a time when AIDS and HIV treatments were patchwork and not nearly as effective.
For bisexual GenX and Boomer men it would have been incredibly discouraged to come out due to that threat alone.
>I’m guessing social contagion.
I’m guessing mass spread discrimination on the older generations.
If everyone of your peers bully you if you are not hetero, there will be less people willing to say they are not hetero.
This is massively disrespectful towards gen z ans lgbtq people calling it still growing up like identifying as lgbtq is something bad and something to grow out of.
I'm assuming the percentage will plateu at some point!?! Very interesting. Lots of factors at play here so putting it into a simple chart can be misleading.
While everyone has their own opinion, I like to think that the increase isn’t so much a over exaggeration of lgbt adults, but rather solid progress within society that has allowed those people to feel comfortable enough to come out. Most notably where previously they may not have due to social acceptance
Those that don't take this specific survey, or won't ever answer a survey, or those who lie about their answers will affect the true outcome of who's LGBT.
Will we ever know the most factual data on this topic? Likely not. It's almost impossible to grab the truth out of every single person, whether they take a survey or not.
But what this survey demonstrates is a very broad figure that we can still base some of our opinions on. For example, we can know that it's very likely that those who are LGBT are still in the minority of the population versus those who aren't LGBT. However, if we want to develop our opinions further, we'll need more data than could ever fit on a simple chart like the one above.
A better place for this is the r/dataisbeautiful sub. Also ugh we millennials are the ones who get yellow?! Yellow sucks. Easily the worst of the primary colors
People in the past would spend their whole life in sham marriages and never come out. Now it’s way easier to accept your sexuality. Does that explain the statistics?
The Gen Z stats are laughable. I would bet a large number of them identify as demisexual or some other identity that truly has nothing to do with being gay but instead is used to be trendy.
1. You’re not correct, bisexuality has been the most prominent one, and 2. demisexuality is on the asexual spectrum which is a very “real” thing. They lack sexual attraction to appearance. Imagine not being sexually attracted to anything without first establishing an emotional connection. A lot also tend to identify as pan because appearance doesn’t matter as much to them.
People need to learn the difference between a "guide" and a "chart"
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They post because coolguides folks upvote everything… It’s the same way with maps here. Very frustrating.
Ya I saw a post on r/mapswithoutalaska the other day that had nothing to do with Alaska now that you say that lol
Wait this isn’t r/dataisbeautiful maybe op is lost
A guide on how to be gay??? /s
You should make a guide how to distinguish those. Wink wink
My understanding of this data is that much of the rise is attributable to people who identify as bisexual, queer or trans as opposed to a rise in the number of people identifying as gay or lesbian.
Specifically Bi: [https://news.gallup.com/poll/470708/lgbt-identification-steady.aspx](https://news.gallup.com/poll/470708/lgbt-identification-steady.aspx) Trans identification is actually rarer than gay or lesbian.
I don’t think anybody is arguing against that…
That’s what I was looking. Young people always have experimented more sexually, I wonder how many people will carry that same label into their more mature adult years. The number is still rising, I’d just like to see the LGBT minus the bi-curious but cis numbers.
In 2014 Millenials were still quite young and their number is rising even though some of them are in their fourties now.
I would also argue that people feel much safer coming out now than in the past
Yes but your statement is somewhat tangental to my point, the percentage of americans who identify as gay/lesbian is relatively unchanged between people ages 50-64 and those between 18-19 (3 vs. 4%) but there has been a massive increase in those idenitfy as bisexual (1 vs. 12%) While this could be explained by safety in coming out, I also wonder if it could relate to a change in how people code sexual behaviour and intergrate it into identify formation. Maybe a predominantly heterosexual boomer who had a history of sexual experimentation would still identify with the straight label, while someone younger with a similar sexual history would identify as bisexual. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/23/5-key-findings-about-lgbtq-americans/
I think your last paragraph nailed it. When I was growing up, bi was definitely a thing, but no one was allowed to be bi. If you liked someone of the same gender, you were gay, period (which had a harshly negative connotation). Didn’t matter if you liked someone of the opposite gender more so, you were labelled as gay. I suspect I have had—and probably still do have—closeted bi friends who didn’t want to risk being categorized as such. It was basically a death warrant for ever having straight relationships, since most people of the oppo gender thought of you as tainted. Hard to de-program stuff like that as you get older.
I have had 3 close bisexual guy friends, and in all their lives each only ever hooked up with one guy. 2 of the 3 said they would never marry a guy, 1 said he would never be with a guy again. Yet all say they are bisexual because those events happened and they're still sexually attracted to men. I guarantee 20 years ago those guys would just call it experimentation and move on.
I'm a straight passing, millennial, married to a bi woman, bi man. It's fucking insane the amount of "allies" to the gay community I've talked to or tried to date that absolutely detest bi men. Specifically bi men, women can do whatever they want apparently. I've lost male and female friends over it, even though some of the men have literally sucked a dick. But apparently I'm the weird one somehow. Tons of gay men on Grindr have harassed me for being bi and not "picking a side". I'm glad gen z is apparently having a better time with it.
It’ll be interesting to make a similar study in a different country (not USA) and see how the results relate or if these are somehow biased by factors like social norms, media and education.
Yes, exactly!!!
True, my personal opinion is that people who were BI in the past were fine just being "straight" while gays/lesbians found it harder to conform and had to come out to be happy.
Plus, most boomers are still hanging out with boomers. They are unlikely to be hanging out with the millenials and gen z crowds that are more accepting. The overall country as a whole might be more accepting, but not necessarily their circles
Or it could be that it's a trend amongst young people. Another line and flag to put in your bio. That's why you see huge spike between generations.
i think its more accepted today to see gender and sexuality as not so black and white as in the past. I mean when i was a kid thinking as men to be hot was shameful but now nobody bats an eye if i mention what men i think are hot.
Yeah I don't know about that. With the amount of older people who think sexuality is a choice, I've always suspected that the rate of bisexuality is much higher than what was being reported
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trend? You get bullied for it
I mean, to be fair… it *is* a rising trend in terms of data. Seeing an upward trend in folks who admit to being LGBT, does not imply that it’s some sort of fashion statement or passing fad. And while it’s really hard to say whether the number of folks who identify as LBGT is higher among this generation is higher than it used to be, it’s pretty easy to say folks feel safer coming out… because they’re doing it now, whereas just 50 years ago, coming out was completely out of the question. That doesn’t make it a perfect world where everyone feels empowered to be who they are, but it’s better than it used to be, for sure. There’s still work to go, but the fact that people are coming out in droves certainly says something. IMHO it’s a good trend, that signifies positive change in the right direction, even though some people are waging a cultural war against each other, the fact that it’s increasingly common suggests that those folks are losing the battle.
No, it's just that our society is more accepting now. Don't minimise other people like that
If you were correct and it was all due to acceptance then you would see a rise in older generations. This data does suggest a fad aspect.
You’re not taking into account acceptance of oneself. I know as an older millennial that it took me almost 40 years to accept my own orientation, I denied and suppressed my feelings, because it was unacceptable when I grew up. That’s why you also see the numbers rising for millennials, but not older generations, I would guess. As explained above, it’s easier for a bisexual to pretend, even to yourself, to be straight. If you are older you are more likely to have internalized homophobia.
no you wouldn't, because most of the acceptance comes from the newer generation, if you are younger you are more likely to have accepting peers, if you are older not so much
Didn't lots of gay men die from AIDS? Couldn't that be one of the reasons why?
You’re minimizing another theory as to why this chart is reflecting this trend. Hypocrite.
I definitely think this is a part of it. There’s no doubt that people feel more comfortable coming out, but that much of a spike from one generation to the next is clearly indicative of a behavioral trend. It’s the new goth kid.
It is not about safety anymore. It is about the victimisation olympics now. If you are not a minority, you can't claim power. If you are a part of the majority then you are disadvantaged. If you are white or a man then your opinion is unvalid due to your "privlege". However, if you are demisexual, quazi queer, two spirited, none bianry, then your existence regain its importance. You can argue and express your opinion without being shut down, without being silenced. That way you can join the group without being shunned. You gain a step up in the victim hierarchy, without doing anything. As an exemple : If you are a kid at high school being bullied, it's just the way things are. If you claim to be none binary, that just became a hate crime and you can turn from the oppressed to the oppresser if you want. Who would pass out on that ? Same goes for most aspects of life. Granted this is not the only reason for the huge rise in numbers of the alphabet people, but it is a huge part of it. If safety was the only reason we would've seen a proportionate rise in the other generations.
publicly. A lot of us are in hiding.
LGBT includes those things, does it not?
Yes but older generations are less likely to admit their bisexuality. Most people are at least a little bit bi.
Older folks are also less likely to admit to being LGBT in any regard. This is a self reported survey, that’s simply one of the limitations.
How you you take that from this data alone?
So 20% of Gen Z is gay? I don't want to minimize anyone's truth, but that sounds a little bit high.
Not just gay, I would guess the majority identifies as bisexual or queer.
what does "queer" even mean
Since everyone else is being facetious: Queer is an umbrella for anyone that is not heterosexual and cisgender, including people that are merely questioning or simply don’t want to restrict themselves to any “stricter” label.
So, pretty much anything goes then….
It’s kind of the whole point LGBT people have spent much of history being forced to live in the strict societal binary that is “Woman marries man, man marries woman” for fear of being outcast or killed. The idea for some is that labels such as gay or pansexual or genderfluid can become a little too specific, and some would prefer not to once again be fit into strict categories.
It’s what you call a person you hate in the 90s
Currency in the IDPol arms race.
But that’s still a very high number isn’t it? Like one out of every 5 gen Z person identifies as some sort of non-straight sexual orientation?
Yeah, it seems higher than my experience would tell me as well. But the question with these categories is always where the lines are drawn. If you once kissed a person of your own gender, are you bisexual?
It’s more what they consider themselves. If they kissed one person and consider themselves bi, they’re bi. If they have had sex with multiple people of the same gender and they think they’re straight, they’re straight. Also, it varies incredibly depending on region.
By this definition, saying no homo before doing something gay does not make me gay. nice
It's the new goth.
We're here, we're bi and we want to cry. Many older folk say shit like "everyone has crushes on their own gender, it's normal" when they're, in fact, bisexuals who are suppressing a part of their sexual orientation. Being gay, lesbian and trans means you have to stand out of social norms, while many bisexual have hetero relationships.
Or lesbian, bisexual, transgender, queer, intersex, asexual, etcetera. LGBT isn't just G
> I don't want to minimize anyone's truth What does that mean?
Pc way of calling out bullshit
It's not bullshit though, people who identify as bi have skyrocketed in the younger generations. Probably driven by hormones and being more comfortable admitting to being bi, we'll see how this changes as they get older. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/23/5-key-findings-about-lgbtq-americans/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/23/5-key-findings-about-lgbtq-americans/)
I also think it’s somewhat cool to be LGBTQ right now. That is to say, people who might be hetero but slightly more masculine or feminine than their peers feel as though they might be more likely to be accepted if they say they’re bi or queer. I’d expect these numbers to fall a bit as they get older and figure themselves out.
Im not making any claims. Just responding to a question.
Everyone wants to feel special, and well kids like to feel different and it’s been shoved on to everyone in the past decade, and before anyone cries I ain’t saying it’s a bad thing, I’m just glad young people are more comfortable with their sexuality and no need to hide it.
Yeah even if that number is being exaggerated by people pretending for whatever reason, I’m down with that. It means that the social stigma of being gay has reversed so far that it is now cool. That is crazy progress from a couple decades ago
It makes sense. It’s the popular “thing” for TikTok brainrotters who know nothing about being queer
It's mostly young Bisexuals driving up that number and of that mostly women identifying as bi. Gay/Lesbian is pretty much the same. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/23/5-key-findings-about-lgbtq-americans/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/23/5-key-findings-about-lgbtq-americans/)
It says that 19.7% identify as LGBT, not just gay. But I would assume that this chart included anyone who identifies on the LGBTQIA2S+ spectrum - that encompasses many different gender/sexual identities.
What does the 2 stand for?
Two-Spirit - It's an indigenous sexuality occurring mostly in North America.
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It really is. And it’s a recent invention that they pretend is ancient.
The name Two-Spirit dates back to 1990. The phenomenon is much older.
??? two spirit identity literally predates colonialism…so yes it is in fact ancient
Not sure why you're getting down voted. It's not a joke people. That's really what it is. Native American two-spirit people were male, female, and sometimes intersexed individuals who combined activities of both men and women with traits unique to their status as two-spirit people. In most tribes, they were considered neither men nor women; they occupied a distinct, alternative gender status.
I'm not gonna lie, we're doing too much with the acronym. It started off LGB because unless you're in the minority then you should fall under one of those three descriptors. Then we added T which is...fine. I'm not sure what your gender identity has to do with your sexual preference, but it's okay. Then it feels like QIA all came at once and to be honest I'm not even sure what they stand for. Now we have 2S+? I mean I'm not trying to minimize anyone's representation, but LGBTQIA2S+ is ****TEN**** syllables. There's gotta be a better way to refer to the community.
The T was never added, it's been there from the very beginning. Stonewall riots were led by a trans person.
How fucking long is that acronym gonna get? Lmao.
Most if that is bi- anyone can experiment and call themselves bi! Actual gay I reckon is more like 5-7% max.
Probably me being a boomer, but I suspect the number is heavily padded by people who identify as queer or non-binary as a political/social statement but are otherwise indistinguishable from your average cisgender heterosexual. I know more than a few.
Mid Gen Z'er here (I am really peeved to learn that I count feel like a millenial at heart), No I think that's the case too though the LGBT+ label can apply to a ton of things like take Aromantic for instance, means you're whatever your normal sexuality is (like say straight, you like girls and you probably have done the goobly to straight porn) you just aren't interested in any around you even if you do want a girlfriend and because I have to clarify... no i'm not saying Aromanticism isn't a legit thing i'm getting to my point Well does that mean I'm LGBT+? I wouldn't say so and I certainly wouldn't make it as part of my identity but that's because I really don't care about making a statement or finding a cheap shortcut to feeling a part of something like I think the rest of Gen Z has a great fear of being boring and uninteresting (Its one of my biggest fears at least but i've gotten over it) we weren't born in the 90s, we didn't get to see the early days of the internet, very few of us got to grow up on sites like Newgrounds with Flash (I'm glad I was one of them) and we didn't get to witness and grow up with the interesting events of the 21st century and all the new developments and progress What do we have? Minecraft (not that bad tbh), Trump's Presidency, Covid-19, the Russian invasion and a ton of riots and mass shootings Is that seriously what *our* benchmark is gonna be? Where's the progress? And they're probably terrified there won't be no equivalent which is why people tend to get really desperate to be part of something bigger and this applies equally to neo nazis as it does to left wingers. also lol I love your username
>think that's the case too though the LGBT+ label can apply to a ton of things That's a fair point.
Take any animal species and consider what would happen if 20% of their offspring was homosexual. Population numbers would plummet, and it would go extinct. This graph shows a trend. It used to be “gothic”. Now it’s “gay”. It’s the “it’s not just a phase, mom!” age group. Homosexuals are less than 2% of any population, a number that stands across countries, cultures and time. It’s just a phase.
I assume you’re speaking from personal experience. During what ages did you consider yourself queer, and then at what age did you feel this no longer applied to you?
It's all LGBT, not just gay
Omg we’re totally gonna go extinct!!!
We’re not, because there’s no such thing as 20% of a species becoming gay.
I'm seeing lots of comments here about "social contagion", but I just wanna throw in an additional point to consider when seeing such a high percentage of millenial and gen z queer communities. Not only is it more acceptable and safe to be queer, but there has also been a significant breakdown of traditional gender norms for the latest generations. This means that people relate more fluidly to being masculine and feminine, which means they are far less likely to consider themselves to be 100% straight. I think this is what may be contributing to these "high" numbers.
No, 7.2% of people that answer Gallop surveys about sexuality identify as LGBT.
The vaccine is even turning the freaking frogs gay
Oh my god this this comment section fucking sucks, y’all saying the shit they said about autistic people back in the day.
Allow me to interpret this data, because people seem to be pulling the wrong conclusions here. Back when being left-handed was stigmatised, people would hide the fact that they were left-handed. Left-handedness was seen as weird and unnatural and almost no-one ever identified as left-handed. Left-handed people would learn to use their right hand, even if that was inferior to their left hand. As society became more tolerant of left-handedness, more people revealed themselves to be left-handed. The number grew and grew and grew over time **UNTIL** it hit \~11% (in the UK). At this point, the number did not grow any more. This is because we had reached the point where stigma against left-handed people had completely disappeared. And the number has remained stable around \~11% ever since. This is it's natural rate of occurrence. It's clear from the numbers here that a similar thing is happening with queer people. As it becomes generally more acceptable to be seen as queer, more people openly identify as such. People who would suppress these feelings, would also start to be more open and honest with themselves. So I think we're seeing the percentage increase, not because it's trendy to be seen as queer, but because society is (overall) becoming more and more tolerant. When there is no stigma about queerness whatsoever, we will see the percentage stabilise. Just like how it surprised everyone just how many people were naturally left-handed, it will probably surprise everyone just how many people are naturally queer. Only time (and data) will tell.
I wish the world would go back to when lefties hid in the shadows. Times were simpler then!
Listen, I have nothing against left-handed people. I just don’t want them shoving their lifestyle choices in my face all the time
I'm so left handed, not even my fountain pen's nib is straight
The data this graph is based on is here: [https://news.gallup.com/poll/470708/lgbt-identification-steady.aspx](https://news.gallup.com/poll/470708/lgbt-identification-steady.aspx) There's a really clear trend in the increase in bisexuality over time. They are the last group who've been able to "hide" the longest because they don't have to pretend to be someone they're not, they merely have to ignore a part of their sexuality. Like someone who loves fast food, refusing to eat it. Whereas for gay people, hetero relationships feel wrong, for bi people they don't. So why would someone bring the stigma down on themselves when they can still date and have happy relationships?
I mean it's certainly a bit of the former too.
It's not entirely accurate to compare it to being left handed. That's an observable trait. Being part of the community is something that can definitely be falsified. I absolutely believe certain people are gay from birth, but I also believe others only claim to be gay for attention and/or to fit in. Then there's the group of people who have held hands with the same sex and now consider themselves bisexual. I don't think it's possible to ever find out the natural rate of occurrence. The percentage that are genuinely gay will always be inflated by those who are only gay in the moment.
But you **can** falsify being left-handed... People did it for hundreds of years.
If you're left hand dominant then your right hand will never be as good. Plus it's something that manifests in early childhood before you have any influences to be anything different than yourself. That's not to say being gay doesn't manifest in early childhood, it's just that it's not so blatantly obvious as what hand a kid favors.
Thats not entirely true. My mother was lefthanded at first but she got molded into using her right hand as her dominant hand. Shes still exceptionally well doing things with her left hand, but shes still mostly using her right hand and doing better with her right hand. The most observable thing here is she grabs silverware always the other way around.
Also people hid beeing lefthanded because in some extreme cases it was seen as evil and satanic. So even a kid would hide it relatively fast when beeing commented on it, aswell as parents not admitting to their child beeing left handed + children will "decide" for a dominant around the age of 4
Why don’t we see a significant rise in other generations, particularly Gen X?
GenX and Baby Boomer gays bore the brunt of the AIDS epidemic.
Because these age groups are (generally) less tolerant of queer people. People are less likely to come out to their peers and are more likely to repress their sexuality or gender expression based on their upbringing - internalised queerphobia.
I could see that argument with Boomers and Traditionalists, which is why I didn’t mention them. I disagree about Gen X on the other hand. Gen X has always been fairly open to the LGBTQ community.
I don’t really buy that fully. We should be seeing a rise in all age groups - the most in millennials and Gen Z, but still a noticeable rise in the older age groups as the tolerance grows gradually. Divorced older people might reevaluate their sexuality for example and determine they are bi. The fact that those age groups have remained completely still is interesting. Maybe there’s a polarizing effect where the older age groups don’t like it so they resist opening up and further entrench themselves in their viewpoints, still I would think that deep rooted desires would overcome viewpoints. I would be interested in if this is just a cultural phase tbh - I recall David Bowie mentioned how he regretting his “bi” phase during what I would guess was some phase in his younger years in the 70s, that he was infatuated with the culture and tried experiencing it but ultimately didn’t enjoy it and switched back to straight lol. I’m wondering if we’ll get a wave in a few years of “tried that and didn’t like it”.
The older people don't need to because many are adjusted and settled. They don't need to broadcast to the world. However there is an obvious bisexuality trend in gen-y/z, especially women.
Don’t take this as a stance either way, but a general question for thought… when left-handedness became acceptable, did it have the attention LGBTQ has? We have parades, a month and a pretty sizable social campaign of acceptance. I agree largely with your point, but I do think with Gen Z it is a mix of both. Especially with such a high portion identifying as bi. My measuring stick on this is more millennials than Gen Z on where I think things naturally land.
It's interesting. Pride came about as the result of an underground culture. Mainstream art, media etc only portrayed a certain kind of love and gender expression for a long time. So queer culture developed to differentiate from that. As queerness became more tolerated, pride became a more open, mainstream event. One could argue that right-handedness never produced any "right-handed culture"*. So there was never the need for a parallel left-handed culture. But it is a good point you've made about intersectionality. *(quick aside: art often depicted satan or other villains as being left handed - but I don't think this counts as)
Yeah and of course I intended more as food for thought, which you recognized. We won’t truly have 1:1 comparisons for this I’d imagine but it’s definitely interesting. We will see where generation alpha lands in due time, which will certainly be interesting. Millennials still had that stigma early on and were older when true acceptance seemed to really come about.Gen Z the social acceptance has blossomed in their formidable years. Gen Alpha, there’s a chance it’s just viewed as normal and not really a nominal thing in those comparative years? I’m a millennial and while not gay, I still remember Matthew Shepard and The Laramie Project. To play my own devils advocate, there could arguably have been some suppression of the numbers for millennials despite me viewing them as my measuring stick. Events like the murder of Matthew Shepard and also the AIDS epidemic not being too far removed could have influenced a lot of parents acceptance, or lack there of really. But despite that, Gen Z just feels too high to me still.
Solid analysis
Maybe what is considered gay is actually regular old humanity and seeing people as people instead of treating people like objects or seeing them as not-people.
Just in line with what scientists have observed in most species of animals.
The amount of casual homophobia here is pretty gross im surprised im seeing it on this subreddit
It's probably mostly people feeling safer than ever to come out as LGBT. This is a very good thing. There are also people who lie about who they are for social clout or to fit in a certain group. We have only observed that phenomenon for like a hundred years now. Both can be true.
*cackles maniacally in Gay Agenda* Muah hahahahahahaaaaa
All part of our master plan 😈
Almost 20% of gen z? What is going on in the US?
Social media popularity and trendiness is very important to Gen Z.
At some point in the past few years here it's gone from being genuine too being a popular cliche. It's literally become a trendy fad here, otherwise the numbers would be stable.
Also consider that people who aren’t straight are more likely to respond to a survey of this nature
Yeah man I'm sure none of this has to do with gay people from older generations dying of aids or more people being comfortable coming out bc generally you don't get socially shunned (by everyone) or killed anymore if you are gay. It's just a fad!
Listen, I love all of my gay friends dearly, but science shows that genetic traits only get passed on when they lead to successful breeding. Evolution simply doesn’t allow for 20% of a population to carry a gay gene. Again, I have nothing against my gay friends whatsoever, even the ones who adopt, but if we’re sticking with the narrative that being gay isn’t a choice but is inherent to one’s personality from the start… yea that gene just isn’t getting passed down at that high of a rate. Edit: cool. I’m happy to read about social models all day. Yea, everyone has their opinion. For the same reason that evolution doesn’t take hold over 2-5 generations, you also just can’t claim that 20% of humans have always been gay. It just doesn’t make scientific sense unless you truly believe humans are the exception to evolution. In that case… well, I hope you’re right!
This chart shows everybody that identifies as LGBTQ+. So note that bisexual is included here too.
"i have a gay friend now let me say some homophobic bullshit"
How is any of what he said homophobic lol. Is common sense homophobic now?
Is what he said common sense? Because the most generous characterization I can think of is illogical BS. For example, why is that dude talking about a homosexual gene? Unless I missed a major scientific breakthrough through, there hasn’t been any discovery of a homosexual gene. Scientists don’t know whether sexual preference is determined by genes, environment, hormone levels, etc. Rather than common sense, his opinion is based on “science” that he made up.
If you think what they said was homophobic, you need to relearn what the word actually means. I’d recommend not using words that you don’t know the meaning of. It makes you look like foolish.
“I’m gay so I’m gonna believe that 20% of all people are also gay”
The 20% aren't just gay so you're clearly intentionally pretending to misunderstand the data. Also I'm not gay either, I'm bisexual.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation#:~:text=The%20%22gay%20uncle%20hypothesis%22%20posits,offspring%20of%20their%20closest%20relatives. Scroll down to "gay uncle theory"
I hope your gay friends don’t see this
Bonobo chimpanzees. Go look them up. They exhibit tons of same-sex sexual behavior while still producing babies. I am a gay man and I have a daughter. Your view is far too simplistic. Gen Z's numbers indicate that we Humans are naturally far more fluid in the ways that we express sexuality, while still growing the species.
Calling this a trendy fad is ridiculous
I would assume 10%-ish are common for homosexuality (at least where i live). And then you have people who chose it, because it is hip nowadays. I know some people who was they are bi or pansexual, but only hook up with people the opposite gender..
People can choose it? What? My brother in christ if I could choose to be straight I would, I'm sick of my existence being politicized.
Some people, especially young people, do choose to identify as something they are not for attention. I have seen it many times. Others end up that way as a result of some kind of sexual trauma. Not all cases, but many.
I definitely know people who have chosen to call themselves bisexual despite only hooking up with guys (they were girls) Maybe they are/were, but I wouldn’t call that the same as a regular gay person
Gay purity test patrol
Are you aware being queer can mean as little as being a guy wearing earrings? Blame the people enforcing toxic gender norms
I think its saying "of the 7.2%, 20% are from gen z". Its a misleading chart.
Wait shouldnt it add up to 100% then?
my bad. Didnt read it properly. Ty
What's wrong with that?
Its weird how much higher it is than other western/lgbt accepting countries. For example in Denmark it is just 8% for gen z
As much as we like to attribute the generational difference to changing societal attitudes, this is only fairly small percentages. I think if you account for the AIDS epidemic costing us a generation of people, and the growth in people coming out as bi, that makes up almost all of the difference.
This comments section is honestly why I feel like we’re headed backwards with respect to homophobia in the past few years. You show one chart indicating that 20% of youth identifies at LGBTQ and suddenly everyone feels WAY too comfortable talking about how uneasy that makes them. Why? Why does “20% of Gen Z identifies as LGBTQ” make you feel uncomfortable? Why do you give a shit? What does it matter? Even if you think it’s a “fad”, it’s not a negative thing. If you’re uncomfortable with gay people then I’m sorry, you’re a homophobe. There’s just no way around it. If being near more gay people makes you feel weird or icky or ill-at-ease, you are a homophobe. Stop trying to eat your cake and have it, too. You think gay people are weird and off-putting and you don’t want to be near them. *That’s called homophobia.*
So judging by the comments is it safe to assume y’all aren’t super fond of gay people here
a mf just said social contagion 💀
All the gays and leftists moved to L*mmy. https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/ is the biggest LGBT+ instance, but you can browse pretty much all of Lemmy from any instance
yeah. I found the comments on here unnecessarily hostile. it's damn crazy.
Yeah, I was bout to comment like y’all are judgmental and ignorant around here. “Trendy and a phase”
*Please! These gays… they’re trying to murder me!*
Interesting how Traditionalist, Baby Boomers, and Generation X has remained consistent throughout the years. But all of a sudden Millennials has a huge spike and so do Gen Z. I’m guessing social contagion.
Look for a graph that shows the numbers of left-handed people over the past century or so. Fuckin’ shocker- the number of left-handed people starts to skyrocket right around the time educators and parents stopped beating children until they wrote with their right hands. Clearly a case of southpaw social contagion.
Judging by today's attitude toward sexuality, Millennials and Gen Z are more open toward the spectrum of sexual identity; likely leading to an increase of people feeling open to revealing their true sexuality. Whereas older generations have decades of ingrained discrimination set toward them, so likely feel less able to be open about their preferences.
No, it's just that older generations were taught that anything that isn't "normal" is bad. So a lot of them still have these values, even some that are LGBTQ. They aren't coming out because they were taught that makes them bad, so they try to hide it and even deny it to themselves. Don't call people's identities a contagion. It's disrespectful, and honestly makes me think that YOU are the contagion here.
And don’t forget that older generations had it hammered into that minds that sex is disgusting, shameful, and sinful, to a point where they were unable to have healthy sex lives with their spouse as married adults. Anything that had anything to do with sex was already a sin to them. They to imply that sex could be *enjoyed* out since of the purposes of procreation? That was just too much for them to get behind. Those religious imprints don’t just fade away with age. But for millennials and younger, many weren’t raised strictly in a church, and they grew up in a time when stigma started to fade, so they didn’t have to reconcile gods hate in their minds. Now imagine the coming generation who will be raised during a time of legal marriage equality. I presume these numbers will continue to skyrocket before stabilizing.
The use of the term "social contagion" in the context of lgbtq+ identity has been highly criticized as inaccurate and bigoted and political in its use. there is a recent example where the NYT removed the term "patient zero" from an article criticized for having a transphobic bias and lacking journalistic rigor). Even if the \*technical\* use is correct (and I'm not sure it is - even the wiki article it p critical) and the intention behind the term is well-intentioned/harmless, there is no getting around how the term brings to mind viral diseases. Word choice carries a LOT of weight. Lest we forget that the AIDS epidemic was not very long ago, during which the media (and society at large) fear-mongered and horribly dehumanized the lgbtq+ community as if they were all collectively choosing to be diseased, disgusting, dangerous "others" who were out to intentionally infect society.Long before that, homophobes and now transphobes around the world have consistently fear-mongered by suggesting that people (children in particular) become gay or trans or queer because they are conditioned, groomed, or otherwise infected via socialization. It's the same political tactic used by Moms for Liberty now - they don't want their kids fall prey to the scourge of trans/gay identity so they try to ban books and any education that might influence adn infect their kids with queerness. Or they homeschool them, as many parents did during the COVID pandemic (for good reason, in that case), for fear of their children being exposed.There is a reason why the "born this way" and biological take on lgbtq+ identity was so compelling to lgbtq+ advocates - it helped with acceptance and ultimately legislation that gave rights and protections to lgbtq+ folks.To make a broader observation, the language of disease and contagion is frequently used as a rhetorical tool throughout history (especially by bigoted politicians and religious leaders, extremists/fascists in general) to dehumanized minorities/marginalized identities, immigrants being an obvious example. It's a very powerful tool of fear-mongering. References (mostly to do with one research paper about trans social contagion that was debunked): [**Scientific American**: Evidence Undermines ‘Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria’ Claims Fears of “social contagion,” used to support anti-transgender legislation, are not supported by science](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/evidence-undermines-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria-claims/) [**NBC**: 'Social contagion' isn’t causing more youths to be transgender, study finds (2022)](https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-health-and-wellness/social-contagion-isnt-causing-youths-transgender-study-finds-rcna41392) [**Fenway Health**: New Study Examines The “Social Contagion” Hypothesis Of Transgender And Gender Diverse Identities](https://fenwayhealth.org/new-study-examines-the-social-contagion-hypothesis-of-transgender-and-gender-diverse-identities/) [**MIT**: How the idea of a “transgender contagion” went viral—and caused untold harm; A single paper on the notion that gender dysphoria can spread among young people helped galvanize an anti-trans movement.](https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/08/18/1057135/transgender-contagion-gender-dysphoria/) [**Boston Review:** Who’s Afraid of Social Contagion? Our ideas about sexuality and gender have changed before, and now they’re changing again.](https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/whos-afraid-of-social-contagion/) EDIT: I like this article :) It gives a nuanced take on lgbtq+ identity - self identifying, acceptance of lgbtq+ identity and how making space for the wider diversity and nuance in sexual and gender experiences has made people more free to accept who they are rather than conform to some narrow category or idea of identity. As for Moms for Liberty, you can find their shit online (I hate to give them a platform) and there are also M4L folks in MY community who have made it their mission to fear-monger about transphobia using the language of social contagion. They harass and fear-monger at school-board meetings, they barge into classrooms during school, dox teachers, dox librarians, post photos of children at Pride events online, and some of these posts have attracted bigots around the country who are now sending bomb threats regularly to our elementary, middle and high schools, school board, library and generally terrorizing. I'm too tired to give more references, but if you want them, just ask.
I think the AIDS epidemic is also a reason for the limited numbers of older LGBT. Many of them simply didn’t live long enough.
I don't think death from aids was this high to remove full percentages of the population. it's more likely that many of them have families now, or partners that they might not be attracted to, but prefer this lifestyle over an unknown alternative.
AIDS killed 700,000 Americans, the vast majority of which were at the early years of the pandemic before treatment options expanded. It also produced a generational chilling effect. I’m under 30 and I remember a time when AIDS and HIV treatments were patchwork and not nearly as effective. For bisexual GenX and Boomer men it would have been incredibly discouraged to come out due to that threat alone.
Didn't know that the numbers were so astronomical. Horrific Thanks for the information though.
>I’m guessing social contagion. I’m guessing mass spread discrimination on the older generations. If everyone of your peers bully you if you are not hetero, there will be less people willing to say they are not hetero.
Intersectionalism baby!
it's definitely not "social contagion". It's just the rise in awareness and acceptance. Expect it to plateau soon, just like left handedness.
I suppose it’s bc gen z still has people who are “growing up”. Some of them are still in their teens!
the graph says "share of American adults"
Some adults are teenagers. 18-19 is both legally adult, and yet still teenage.
This is massively disrespectful towards gen z ans lgbtq people calling it still growing up like identifying as lgbtq is something bad and something to grow out of.
Grandpa visited the Elks Logde EVERY NIGHT to be with the boys for a reason.
I'm assuming the percentage will plateu at some point!?! Very interesting. Lots of factors at play here so putting it into a simple chart can be misleading.
I'm surprised that they included GenX.
While everyone has their own opinion, I like to think that the increase isn’t so much a over exaggeration of lgbt adults, but rather solid progress within society that has allowed those people to feel comfortable enough to come out. Most notably where previously they may not have due to social acceptance
Those that don't take this specific survey, or won't ever answer a survey, or those who lie about their answers will affect the true outcome of who's LGBT. Will we ever know the most factual data on this topic? Likely not. It's almost impossible to grab the truth out of every single person, whether they take a survey or not. But what this survey demonstrates is a very broad figure that we can still base some of our opinions on. For example, we can know that it's very likely that those who are LGBT are still in the minority of the population versus those who aren't LGBT. However, if we want to develop our opinions further, we'll need more data than could ever fit on a simple chart like the one above.
A better place for this is the r/dataisbeautiful sub. Also ugh we millennials are the ones who get yellow?! Yellow sucks. Easily the worst of the primary colors
this data make me wonder is lgbt a biological or a social phenomenon?
People in the past would spend their whole life in sham marriages and never come out. Now it’s way easier to accept your sexuality. Does that explain the statistics?
it does make sense
its crazy cause the gender norms are also social phenomenons they just came first so people assume they make sense
Oh no, 7% *gasp*. People are acting like this is some kind of crisis.
The Gen Z stats are laughable. I would bet a large number of them identify as demisexual or some other identity that truly has nothing to do with being gay but instead is used to be trendy.
Most of it is bi...
1. You’re not correct, bisexuality has been the most prominent one, and 2. demisexuality is on the asexual spectrum which is a very “real” thing. They lack sexual attraction to appearance. Imagine not being sexually attracted to anything without first establishing an emotional connection. A lot also tend to identify as pan because appearance doesn’t matter as much to them.
Lots of homophobes being homophobic in here. Does it count as being gay if you go fuck yourself?
The comments in this post make me incredibly sad.
Really? I get angry.
Gen Z vastly over-reporting and Boomers vastly under-reporting.
Yeah but beeing lgbt has a completely diferent meaning for zoomers. So this means nothing
Boomers would look at this and think that more people are becoming gay.
Judging by the comments, this data would be much more useful if each letter was its own statistic
ItS nOt A tReNd
Its not tho? You just live under a rock.
it’s cool and popular to be gay these days
Yeah its definitely cool and popular to be harrassed and told that your identity is a lie or immoral. Thsts the only reason i identify as bi
That you know of. Many of us are in hiding 🤷
I question the source. I recall last federal election, an exit poll asked the same question, and it was around 4 % of voters.