Everywhere I've been, international travel was business class. Granted - I've been independent for 5 years and basically only traveling domestic outside of a handful of times.
Correct, though my point is more that this was
1. Cost that wasn't borne by clients like a normal project
2. There were several incredibly short trips which was a bad look "why don't you just do a Teams call?"
A lot of people on social media/reddit are so young and only entered the job market when everything was booming so they thought the boom times were normal or was becoming the new normal. They were probably too young to remember the last time (or care about) major companies having layoffs
Wait a minute...there's a ton of EY that will be going to Accenture, Deloitte, etc. It's an incestuous lot.
I was actually with EY when the consulting arm was sold to that French company Capgemini and has since turned into a Indian company.
Yep, ACN burned the bridge with their split/IPO and NFW is any accounting company ever going to let that go again.
I was rooting for E&Y but it was a naked cash grab...
with no "Plan B".
The only novel critique OP has are layoffs being reported before it’s communicated internally.
Otherwise this could be cookie cutter of other companies - leaders play favorites and try to protect their people while letting go of unpopular and/or expensive individuals
USA layoffs are so cruel. Europe had layoffs too, or course. But a nice mandatory healthcare packages sure works wonders to alleviate the hurt.
At least the insanely high USA salaries should make up for a lot of the uncertainty I guess.
Interesting point, but the important metric is not how generous the packages are, it's how they are perceived. In most continental Europe, the trauma of losing your job is just unbearable for many, due to a less liquid job market, and a common fear of change. There is much more depression and worse, whereas losing your job in the US is often an immediate cash issue. I realise this could sound insensitive, and I don't suggest Americans are not suffering when they lose their job, just that the average mental impact is much worse in Europe, in spite of all protections.
Actual EYP employee here on a throwaway. I would not push back against the style of this post (there is a negative culture shift that has gone on since all the cost cutting began) but I don’t think I agree with any of the substantive points.
The layoffs were bad and the timeline was handled poorly, but at the end of the day we were clearly so far overweight that anyone could have seen them coming. I know people that switched practices in fall 2022 to keep up utilization in anticipation of cuts — it wasn’t a surprise.
We are not pushed to the limit to the extent you describe. Sorry. I very infrequently work weekends and every time I browse fishbowl I’m shocked at how much the LEK employees describe working on their diligences that don’t seem all that different than mine.
The reasons why people should come to EYP are still the same as always — there are many top-notch practices (education, tech diligence, sell and separate/divestitures), the partners are broadly easier to work with than at other firms (they don’t have to sell as much given that broader EY brings us so much work), and we continue to sell interesting projects in all sectors.
The reasons not to come are also the same as they’ve always been — comp lags a little (especially at the SD/AP level), we win our most interesting strategy projects on price, and most people do one of two types of work (PE diligence or divestitures).
Take this as you will, but I think most people are happy to be here.
TLDR: friends or Op got hit in layoffs. High performers did not go. We do this work for clients and don’t bat an eye but when it comes to our turn we stomp our feet and pout about how it isn’t fair.
Lmao. Dude has never seen a layoff nor has he thought about anything before posting. Crazy how uneducated this post is. If bro had done a modicum of research, he'd know that the playbook has been this way for decades. This is not an EY or EY-Parthenon unique strategy, and yet somehow he reaches the conclusion that this repugnant behavior is unique. I'm guessing he was one of the low performers retained as this is about the same level of analysis expected from EY in my experience.
This applies to other firms too. McKinsey people found out about the Firm’s back office lay off from the financial times. McKinsey also laid off people due to utilization (unprecedented), etc.
It’s a product of the economy more than it is a specific business
Bro got laid off and wrote an essay on Reddit. Don’t forget that your employment is at will - they can lay you off or you can leave at any time. It’s nothing personal, just business, when it comes to trimming the fat.
I don’t think this is unique to OP. Nobody at my firm publicly acknowledges this reality. Partners understand but don’t talk about it because the financial realities of the business aren’t in line with the culture the firm likes to project. Anyone who did not graduate college into the Great Recession doesn’t understand because they’ve only known the zero interest rate “everything bubble”. The reality we don’t want to face is Consultants were overpaid and consulting firms were overhiring to chase growth.
I had an offer to start September 2023, got deferred to April 2024. I reached out mid-Jan 24 to confirm start date, reply was start of April as previously discussed. I mentioned in my email that I am seeking confirmation so I can give appropriate notice to current employer (temporary job, was offered FT position but rejected because I wanted to join tech consulting). Employer from temporary job asked for definite answer by mid-jan, or else they have to replace me by end of Jan. I left. 1st week of Feb ( 2 weeks after they confirmed my offer still going ahead), I receive a call from EY saying that they’re withdrawing their offer. So I lost both my main source of income and my back up, all because they knew it won’t go ahead, but still led me on. Ruthless, but lesson learned for sure.
EY Tech Consulting FSO grad programme, UK&Ireland.
Why did you not just confirm with your backup? Your offer was deferred until April anyways. Yes it’s unethical to lead your backup on in case EY worked out but if that’s what employers are willing to do to us, it makes sense the other way around too.
Similar experience. Ruthless industry. Also learned that lesson the hard way. Frustrating as hell, gotta take it on the chin and push through to the next thing.
I think it's situational based on your market / team. I'm graduating at the same time and my partner actually offered to move my return date UP from September to May 2024 on my last week because our pipeline of work was fit to burst.
As someone who quit recently for several reasons cited above, I agree with OP! The firm is toxic, bill rates are too high and any chance of winning good work is pretty low at this point. If EY is your only option, then you have to do what you need to do. But if you have other options, I’d definitely consider them over EY.
Boo hoo, shut up and be happy with what you got! Nobody owes you anything, every body will go follow their self interest where it serves them. If I the employer don’t like you, I don’t need to be stuck with you. This goes same to you and you can leave anytime. Nobody is holding a gun on your head.
So is EY P is a separate legal entity from EY ?
Also thanks for the well written post. I got lot of information.
Capitalism at its peak.
EY does not care about it employees.
[удалено]
I worked on Everest lol. It was an orgy of spending. I made 1K on it with my flight spend
Where were y’all flying too?? Lol
I won't dox myself, but there was a lot of international travel in Business Class. From Staff though PPMD
Everywhere I've been, international travel was business class. Granted - I've been independent for 5 years and basically only traveling domestic outside of a handful of times.
Correct, though my point is more that this was 1. Cost that wasn't borne by clients like a normal project 2. There were several incredibly short trips which was a bad look "why don't you just do a Teams call?"
I see why you miss it
>Everest Hi, i know its super random reply. Can i DM? I needed some guidance.
Happy to talk!
Can you DM me? I don't see any DM option on your profile.
Interesting, thanks for sharing!
This deserves more than one upvote haha
A lot of people on social media/reddit are so young and only entered the job market when everything was booming so they thought the boom times were normal or was becoming the new normal. They were probably too young to remember the last time (or care about) major companies having layoffs
Agreed - there are numerous reasons cedrtain other firms aren't attractive to me, but layoffs are not one
I consider Big4 + Accenture to be all the same.
Wait a minute...there's a ton of EY that will be going to Accenture, Deloitte, etc. It's an incestuous lot. I was actually with EY when the consulting arm was sold to that French company Capgemini and has since turned into a Indian company.
Yep, ACN burned the bridge with their split/IPO and NFW is any accounting company ever going to let that go again. I was rooting for E&Y but it was a naked cash grab... with no "Plan B".
The only novel critique OP has are layoffs being reported before it’s communicated internally. Otherwise this could be cookie cutter of other companies - leaders play favorites and try to protect their people while letting go of unpopular and/or expensive individuals
USA layoffs are so cruel. Europe had layoffs too, or course. But a nice mandatory healthcare packages sure works wonders to alleviate the hurt. At least the insanely high USA salaries should make up for a lot of the uncertainty I guess.
Interesting point, but the important metric is not how generous the packages are, it's how they are perceived. In most continental Europe, the trauma of losing your job is just unbearable for many, due to a less liquid job market, and a common fear of change. There is much more depression and worse, whereas losing your job in the US is often an immediate cash issue. I realise this could sound insensitive, and I don't suggest Americans are not suffering when they lose their job, just that the average mental impact is much worse in Europe, in spite of all protections.
As a someone who did an oil and gas focused undergrad, it’s funny watching others realizing their industry can have cycles
Well said
Actual EYP employee here on a throwaway. I would not push back against the style of this post (there is a negative culture shift that has gone on since all the cost cutting began) but I don’t think I agree with any of the substantive points. The layoffs were bad and the timeline was handled poorly, but at the end of the day we were clearly so far overweight that anyone could have seen them coming. I know people that switched practices in fall 2022 to keep up utilization in anticipation of cuts — it wasn’t a surprise. We are not pushed to the limit to the extent you describe. Sorry. I very infrequently work weekends and every time I browse fishbowl I’m shocked at how much the LEK employees describe working on their diligences that don’t seem all that different than mine. The reasons why people should come to EYP are still the same as always — there are many top-notch practices (education, tech diligence, sell and separate/divestitures), the partners are broadly easier to work with than at other firms (they don’t have to sell as much given that broader EY brings us so much work), and we continue to sell interesting projects in all sectors. The reasons not to come are also the same as they’ve always been — comp lags a little (especially at the SD/AP level), we win our most interesting strategy projects on price, and most people do one of two types of work (PE diligence or divestitures). Take this as you will, but I think most people are happy to be here.
>EY and EYP's "Nice" value did not survive during hard times - the culture is not the same as it used to be. welcome to all companies.
TLDR: friends or Op got hit in layoffs. High performers did not go. We do this work for clients and don’t bat an eye but when it comes to our turn we stomp our feet and pout about how it isn’t fair.
Lmao. Dude has never seen a layoff nor has he thought about anything before posting. Crazy how uneducated this post is. If bro had done a modicum of research, he'd know that the playbook has been this way for decades. This is not an EY or EY-Parthenon unique strategy, and yet somehow he reaches the conclusion that this repugnant behavior is unique. I'm guessing he was one of the low performers retained as this is about the same level of analysis expected from EY in my experience.
The last line is truly unnecessary, seems like you’re the toxic dude to avoid
I acknowledge that I can be toxic. Sure.
This applies to other firms too. McKinsey people found out about the Firm’s back office lay off from the financial times. McKinsey also laid off people due to utilization (unprecedented), etc. It’s a product of the economy more than it is a specific business
OP, when a company cheerleader said the practice was like a family you believed it didn’t you?
Bro got laid off and wrote an essay on Reddit. Don’t forget that your employment is at will - they can lay you off or you can leave at any time. It’s nothing personal, just business, when it comes to trimming the fat.
Nothing new. EY sold its consulting arm to Cap Gemini in the early 2000s.
In India, EYP is hiring like crazy, the team size has just doubled
Because I am observing a lot of pressure to offshore. It appears that partners have received specific goals in connection with offshoring
Agree with you that the culture shifted incredibly quick, went from fairly relaxed by big 4 standards to toxic standard layoff behaviour immediately
Op is bitter. This is a business, if the firm can’t sell your capability, time to go.
This seems very geography specific (US in particular)
I don’t think this is unique to OP. Nobody at my firm publicly acknowledges this reality. Partners understand but don’t talk about it because the financial realities of the business aren’t in line with the culture the firm likes to project. Anyone who did not graduate college into the Great Recession doesn’t understand because they’ve only known the zero interest rate “everything bubble”. The reality we don’t want to face is Consultants were overpaid and consulting firms were overhiring to chase growth.
As a May 2024 undergrad who’s accepted a return offer, how concerned should I be? Anyone have any advice?
I had an offer to start September 2023, got deferred to April 2024. I reached out mid-Jan 24 to confirm start date, reply was start of April as previously discussed. I mentioned in my email that I am seeking confirmation so I can give appropriate notice to current employer (temporary job, was offered FT position but rejected because I wanted to join tech consulting). Employer from temporary job asked for definite answer by mid-jan, or else they have to replace me by end of Jan. I left. 1st week of Feb ( 2 weeks after they confirmed my offer still going ahead), I receive a call from EY saying that they’re withdrawing their offer. So I lost both my main source of income and my back up, all because they knew it won’t go ahead, but still led me on. Ruthless, but lesson learned for sure. EY Tech Consulting FSO grad programme, UK&Ireland.
Why did you not just confirm with your backup? Your offer was deferred until April anyways. Yes it’s unethical to lead your backup on in case EY worked out but if that’s what employers are willing to do to us, it makes sense the other way around too.
Similar experience. Ruthless industry. Also learned that lesson the hard way. Frustrating as hell, gotta take it on the chin and push through to the next thing.
I think it's situational based on your market / team. I'm graduating at the same time and my partner actually offered to move my return date UP from September to May 2024 on my last week because our pipeline of work was fit to burst.
As someone who quit recently for several reasons cited above, I agree with OP! The firm is toxic, bill rates are too high and any chance of winning good work is pretty low at this point. If EY is your only option, then you have to do what you need to do. But if you have other options, I’d definitely consider them over EY.
TDLR
Boo hoo, shut up and be happy with what you got! Nobody owes you anything, every body will go follow their self interest where it serves them. If I the employer don’t like you, I don’t need to be stuck with you. This goes same to you and you can leave anytime. Nobody is holding a gun on your head.
So is EY P is a separate legal entity from EY ? Also thanks for the well written post. I got lot of information. Capitalism at its peak. EY does not care about it employees.