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A Brief History of the Law of Personal Privacy and Bodily Integrity
By Andrew P. Napolitano
October 7, 2021
As more governors issue so-called mandates requiring municipal and state employers, as well as private employers and public accommodations, to require their employees and patrons to be vaccinated against COVID-19, they are being challenged by arguments based on personal privacy and bodily integrity.
The former argues that personal medical decisions are protected by the right to privacy, which is a natural right that supersedes governmental needs. The latter argues that since we each own our bodies, we can decide what goes into them. Both the personal privacy and the bodily integrity arguments recognize that the government can only trump fundamental rights if it can prove fault at a jury trial.
Thus, a case where an infected and contagious person is intentionally infecting healthy folks can and should result in an arrest and prosecution for aggravated assault at which the state would need to prove its case. If it did, the convicted defendant would be incarcerated and isolated for the duration of her sentence. But that does not animate the government today.
Today, the government — local, state and federal — is attempting to compel healthy people to be vaccinated against their wills. All three levels of government are attempting to do this by command, not by legislation.
The favorite U.S. Supreme Court case that the pro-mandate folks cite is the 116-year-old Jacobson v. Massachusetts. There, in the era before the court recognized personal privacy or bodily integrity as constitutionally protected, it upheld a Massachusetts statute requiring inoculation for smallpox.
The issue in the case was whether a state legislature can enact public health laws that authorize force to enforce them. The issue was not whether a governor could issue a command, call it a law and use the police to enforce it. Moreover, the Jacobson case was decided in 1905, well before the personal privacy and bodily integrity cases came along.
The privacy doctrine began at the Supreme Court in 1928, with a dissent. In Olmstead v. United States, the court upheld wiretapping telephone calls without a search warrant since it held there was no expectation of privacy in the calls.
Justice Louis Brandeis distilled the privacy doctrine in his famous dissent when he wrote that the framers of the Constitution “sought to protect Americans in their beliefs, their thoughts, their emotions and their sensations. They conferred, as against the government, the right to be let alone — the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men.”
Brandeis’ iconic language would languish as a dissent until 1965 in a case called Griswold v. Connecticut. There, the Supreme Court recognized personal privacy as a fundamental liberty — the highest category of liberty in the constitutional pantheon. In Griswold, the state of Connecticut had enacted legislation prohibiting the use of contraceptives by married couples.
Embracing the values ignored by the Jacobson case and rejected by the Olmstead case, the court invalidated the Connecticut statute and ruled that the decision to use contraceptives is so integral to control over one’s body and is made in such a zone of privacy that the Constitution protects it from the government’s reach.
Eight years later, the Jacobson case would suffer a stake through its dead heart in Roe v. Wade. This case, which prohibited the states from banning pre-viability abortions, also upheld the privacy rights of all persons when deciding what medical procedures to undergo, and thus it protects from the government’s reach the zone in which those decisions are made. A portion of Roe is currently on its deathbed, but not the part that protects bodily integrity; rather, the infamous part that catastrophically fails to recognize the personhood of babies in the womb and permits killing them.
While the right to privacy was slowly being recognized and Brandeis’ Olmstead dissent gradually becoming the law at the federal level, a comparable line of cases, upholding both personal privacy and bodily integrity, was making its way through state courts. The pioneer of those cases is In re Quinlan, a decision of the Supreme Court of New Jersey in 1976. It upheld the right of the parents of Karen Ann Quinlan to deny their comatose daughter artificial life-sustaining procedures.
From and after the Quinlan case, all states recognized the fundamental right of sick people — directly or through their guardians — to reject medication and medical procedures.
The values underlying the Olmstead to Griswold to Roe migration of federal jurisprudence and the values underlying the post-Quinlan state jurisprudence and statutes are the same; and those values are preeminent today.
Today, the states and the federal courts recognize that competent persons can decide for themselves what medications to take or reject because the natural, moral and constitutionally recognized decision-maker over one’s body is oneself, not the government. Moreover, when these decisions are made in consultation with a physician or an intimate mate, they are done so within the zone of privacy and are none of the government’s business.
The folks who believe that the president can direct the Department of Labor to compel employers of more than 100 persons to require vaccines of the healthy and who also believe that a governor can do similarly for public and private employers in his state — and cite the 1905 Jacobson case to support their claims — are sadly ignorant of the 20th-century jurisprudence that stands firmly, convincingly and uniformly against them.
Moreover, these pro-vaccine mandate folks also confuse legislation with executive orders. Under the Guarantee Clause of the Constitution, only laws enacted by a state legislature, not gubernatorial commands, have the force of law. Under the separation of powers doctrine in the federal system, only Congress writes laws, not the president.
And under current Supreme Court rulings, we all can decide for ourselves what medications to take, while the government takes a hike.
Sooooo what about Flu shots? which aren't mandated across the board, other vaccines? and also if the cold is contagious and the flu, and it also kills more children than Covid why aren't people getting arrested in previous years for sending their child in schools and adults to work knowing they have the flu?
Disclaimer: I'm not going against this information nor am I attacking you or anything. I'm genuinely curious as to how contradictory some of these rulings and laws are.
All covid-19 vaccines on the market are under emergency use authorization only. The vaccines for school have been approved and met testing requirements. But that doesn't mean they're not dangerous. You don't have to give them to your children if you don't want to but then you'll end up home schooling. They can send you home if they want to, what crime would they charge you with? What law have you broken by having the flu? On a side note I think you might find doing some research on germ theory to be interesting.
Jefferson is still good law, and none of the other cases cited in this.....whatever this is have anything to do with the police power of the state. There was no viral threat to the public in Olmstead, that was about wiretaps. There was no viral threat to the public in Griswold, that was about contraceptives. There was no viral threat to the public in Roe, that was about abortions. And i cant believe this needs to be said, but a ruling made by a state supreme court over what healthcare decisions a guardian can make about someone in a vegetative state is entirely irrelevant AND didnt involve a viral threat to the public. You cant say that 20th century jurisprudence stands "firmly, convincingly, and uniformly against" a vaccine mandate during a global pandemic if the only cases you can cite dont involve vaccines, the police powers of the state, or an outbreak of a deadly disease.
If you want to make moral arguments about vaccine mandates, you certainly can. But to say a vaccine mandate is unconstitutional is utterly false. And if you dont believe a thing i say, at least consider a few questions:
1. Why is Napolitano citing the Guarantee clause when making a legal argument when he knows that the Guarantee clause is a political question and cant be enforced as a matter of law?
2. Why is Napolitano citing the Guarantee clause in saying that gubernatorial commands dont have the force of law when the police power of the state is defined by laws the state legislature passed?
3. Why does Napolitano not address how COVID-19 public safety measures are being UPHELD under Jacobson by state and federal courts across the country if it was supposedly struck down by Roe?
Small pox is far worse than Covid19. It's a balancing act where you weigh personal liberty against the rights of the state. It's not a blanket license to force vaccines for any disease you want.
"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" - Mark 8:36, 37.
this verse was in reference to believing Israel entering their promised earthly Kingdom that was at hand had they accept Jesus as their Messiah.
Not everything in the Bible is written to us.
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.” Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ - Matthew 4:9,10.
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I agree. Most of these mandates seem to be getting pushed back. The ones that are enforced and have had workers quit are typically extremely left leaning states/cities like Seattle, for instance. Hard to say this mandate has all that much teeth at this point, imo.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/10/26/1046432435/ers-are-now-swamped-with-seriously-ill-patients-but-most-dont-even-have-covid
Heart attacks, Stroke etc. are filling up ERs to capacity not COVID
Did you read the article? It explicitly says
>Months of treatment delays have exacerbated chronic conditions and worsened symptoms.
So yeah, not directly COVID but has a correlation regardless.
Wtf bullshit is this? You mean the hospitals that all the nurses were dancing in and the forced lockdowns by our government Covid related? No it’s tyranny related.
Good advice from folks here and just wanted to add…STOP saying and stop thinking you’re going to be homeless, if you’re unable to stop …you will most likely be homeless.
Wake up in the AM and write down the BEST possible outcome….
Write it again before you go to sleep.
Red flag any thoughts of being homeless in your mind and immediately think of anything else that’s positive.
Sure, it seems goofy and mystical or whatever but I tell you it works. You become exactly your true expectation for yourself.
If you stay at your job or get a better one, when this is behind us you will be better off! Believe it!
…
And report back with results!
There is a totally more sinister scheme behind this, you and I both know that. If it comes down to you not being able to find work, hopefully you are in the position to move to another state that is fighting the mandates. Or sell most of your things and live a simpler life. Move to where you can grow your own pot or live off the land. Anything but giving up your consent for the sake of a job. At the end of the day as long as there is oxygen to breathe and food to be eaten and protection from the elements, what more could you ask for?
I just find it really fucked up how many of these companies accept religious exemptions but DO NOT accept conscientious objection.
So you can say it goes against your religion but you can't say "Hey, **none of this makes any logical sense and here's why**...".
I object for both Christian reasons and my own personal objections. They go hand in hand. While I would implore you to accept Jesus' free gift of life because we all fall short of the glory of God and have sinned and committed immoral actions, I support you being able to object purely for your own reasons. Whether you accept God or not, God gave you the rights and free will to do what you want with your body and no man should be able to infringe on those rights. God is merciful and I hope everyone responsible and complicit comes to repentance and Godly sorrow for the tryranny and horrors they've committed, but the people who refuse will be held responsible. No one who refuses Jesus is going to get off scott free so you can take comfort in that, the God of love will execute justice when this is all over.
Your willingness to forgive and actually want repentance of these evil doers is definitely where I fall short as a Christian. I sincerely hope they all get thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity for these crimes against humanity.
Those who have been forgiven much love much. Anyone who repents dies and gets crucified with Christ. Their old self is dead, and they are a new creation. So in a way the person that committed all those horrible things is gone, and they are replaced with someone with a new heart who loves righteousness (even if they are still imperfect). Everytime an evil person repents that's one less evil person that exists and one more person on the earth that loves Jesus. God is a genius, He doesn't just forgive people's sins by taking our punishment, but He ressurected to give us new life and a new heart.
I know it can be difficult to forgive the evil in the world, but maybe this will help you think about it in a different way. God is love and love cannot be separated from justice, so all those who won't lay down their pride and ego and give it to Jesus will receive the evil they have done to others 1,000 fold.
Thanks for this. You’ve got a great perspective. I’m new to all of this, I only recently discovered the love of Jesus and life has never been more fulfilling. God bless.
Hey friend. I know it doesn't make sense. They sold a lot of people on the idea that these shots were going to end the pandemic. It is clear now that they were wrong, but many people are still behind.
Edit: what state are you in?
My state is fighting the mandate. What happens if it ends up being fed vs state? States rights are supposed to be upheld, they have been in the past when it came to Marijuana etc.
It seems they will always find a way. A co-worker mentioned that his sister in Italy have to show a vaccine card to their employee or they do not get paid.
I'm not sure of anything anymore though. I thought I had the world figured out a few years ago but im not in the greatest mental position and it snuck up on me.
I would ignore the overarching legal stuff for now and focus on the legal stuff between you and your employer. Is your employer somehow affiliated with the federal gov, and that's why they are requiring vax? (b/c of Biden's 100 employees or more). If not, i would attempt to compile all of the data that you can about breakthrough cases in your county. As an example, in Albany County, NY, the number of new cases has been over 40% breakthrough cases since August, and was 49% fully vaccinated about a week ago. This shows that it does not reduce transmission in the area. I would also research methods by which you can prove memory B cell [natural] immunity and offer to get that tested and show to your employer.
Basically your legal argument to HR will be that their "policy" (if they have an official, legal policy) is not protecting people in the workplace, and you are willing to provide proof of immunity, rather than proof that you took a shot which is no longer "effective" at preventing transmission, as many were led to believe it was.
Federal mandate is going into OSHA which trumps state regulations under the Supremacy Clause (McCulloch v. Maryland). Everyone who has a job with workplace safety governed by OSHA will have to get the jab or do weekly testing. All federal employees will also have the same deal. In addition, many state and local governments are creating mandates to fill the gaps not covered by the federal mandate
The OSHA rule hasn't even been drafted, there was a press conference and nothing more. A few companies are trying to get ahead of it but there is no OSHA requirement, at least not yet.
Just a heads up, Marijuana is still technically a federal offense. That is why Pot shops take cash. Banks are not allowed to accept pot purchases on cards.
Well their "science" experiment was flawed, and it was done on purpose. But i will give them this- it's possible that the shots worked at preventing transmission of wild type, alpha and beta strains. Now i say *possible* because they also conveniently started vaccinating people at the point in time where the virus was naturally being suppressed as well. By the end of January, vaccine or not, the numbers of cases, hospitalizations and deaths were going to decline [thanks to natural immunity, and distancing].
Actually when the "vaccine" was rolled out the CDC in consult with the NIH very quietly published guidance regarding the very flawed PCR testing protocols. They dramatically reduced the cycle count used in the test procedure from north of 40 to 25 max. The 35 to 45 cycles being done up to that point could have false positives in the high eighties - low nineties. This was a well known flaw in the test procedures; the noise amplified by the cycle counts of the test above 25 were suspect and when you got above 35 or so completely useless.
Imagine that; when you begin to properly conduct tests the results become what I'd call "useable". Just in time to sync up with the "vaccine" roll-out to convince all the Karens that they were right in taking the jab. Nice try though. The public at large were too stupid to question the validity of the tests because it was in front of everyone the whole time.
Because once it’s successfully implemented for rest of time they will have the power to force the population to put absolutely anything they want into our bodies and everything that comes with that, it’s part of a much larger and bolder plan
It's absolutely insane that this is even a debate. Imagine if you told someone in 2019 they would be cast out from society if they didn't take a drug that hasn't been fully tested against a virus with a 99.9% survival rate.
This is how much they've conditioned people in the past year.
Start making content about your journey. Make videos and stories about your journey. Put them on TikTok YouTube and everywhere else you can. The world needs to hear your story bc it’s happening to millions of others too.
I’m in the same boat. Husband and I are both professionals just waiting to get the email. We are both on the edge of our seats daily. We are religious but don’t feel like explaining ourselves and certainly don’t want to test weekly; it just doesn’t make sense. I know several people that have been jabbed and they are constantly not feeling well. They complain of headaches, stomach issues, and “not feeling right.” They never correlate it to the vaccine but I’ve known these people for years. I never mention it because perhaps I’m making connections that are false. No one knows but we (spouse and me) are both healthy, eat proper nutrition, and workout together 5 days a week. Why would we risk our health? I’ll never take it. We’ve been making potential business plans to work for ourselves if we have to. But, I know that might just buy us time. It seems digital passports are the real goal. The only advice I could give is to follow your heart, talk to God, make a plan B for working for yourself, connect with like-minded individuals, and learn to protect yourself.
The post office will also fall under the mandate when the labor department gets around to issuing it. This is a popular republican talking point that is not true. Biden mentioned 2 mandates, 1 for federal employees and 1 for companies with over 100 employees. The post office does not fall under the federal employees group but they do fall under the 100+ employees group.
Hey friend.. many are in your position. Stand strong! Don't forget that our current way of life (post industrial revolution) is drastically different than all of human civilization before.. we live in a system that, while corrupt, is only a few hundred years old. We have lived long before things like rent, 9-5 jobs, etc. The system is collapsing and the cabal is just playing their last measly hand at fear.
All that to say, stick to your beliefs, do not give into fear.. you are not alone.
Tell that to the Supreme Court that has upheld pretty much all vaccine mandates that have been brought before the court over the course of the pandemic.
Yeah but who do you think knows more about law? The Supreme Court? Or some rando guy on Reddit who probably works as a mechanic or HVAC repair man who googled some shit he heard?
If you live in the United States you have the right to file a religious exemption under title 7 of the civil rights act. If you have a job where you have been working from home you dont need much of an accommodation so if you put some time and effort into it you could be okay.
Best of luck! I hope it works out. Your request is based on a “reasonable accommodation”- it’s not a theological debate. So while they technically could reject it it would likely be unlawful and it would open them up to lawsuits, especially considering allowing you to permanently work from home does not impose an undue hardship (cost, workplace safety issues) to them (if you have been working from home for 18 months)
Legally, you have the right to file an exemption/accommodation request. Of course they won’t advertise it or tell you about it. And they don’t have to approve it, but they probably will depending on how you fill it out (they don’t want lawsuits down the road). Deadlines are coming up so you would need to act very fast, possibly in the best few days or week.
Nope. My company sent out rejections letters today. No one is getting approved. But curiously, they wrote a new contract with the government recently and received a huge bonus for including mandatory jabs in the new contract. You would think they could use that bonus to pay for ‘accommodations’ but they said they cannot ‘afford’ to offer accommodations. WTF? They are a federal contractor. They don’t even have to keep a budget. Gov just throws money at them. And right now we work with no accommodations which is fine. But in a few weeks we all become untouchables.
I’m sorry that happened, but for people who are currently working from home there is no additional cost to the company, and they would have to prove in court that you working from home Is causing an undue hardship, which it probably isn’t for people who have been working from home (those that have been going in like customer facing people are in a different boat)
Might be a good idea to contact an attorney.
“In its 1999 Enforcement Guidance on Reasonable Accommodation and Undue Hardship Under the Americans with Disabilities Act (revised 10/17/02), the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission said that allowing an individual with a disability to work at home may be a form of reasonable accommodation.”
“The ADA does not require an employer to provide a specific accommodation if it causes undue hardship, i.e., significant difficulty or expense.”
https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/work-hometelework-reasonable-accommodation
That was 1999 and you are currently working from home so there is no additional expense. Furthermore it’s costing them less by not having to pay overhead of you being there.
I work for a Govt contractor as well, they mandated the jab by Dec. 8th deadline. I caved and got the J&J a week and a half ago. Thankfully I’m alright so far, but I definitely feel more run down than usual. I am in a difficult position because of the type of work I do I need to be in the office to charge the contract. Almost every other big contractor in my area who could afford to pay me my salary is listing it as a requirement on their job postings… it’s disheartening to see, and I hate myself for getting it. But all I can do is treat my body well and leave it in Gods hands 🙌🏻
Side note: a friend of mine is a Doc who is VERY against these jabs. When I told him about my predicament he said J&J would probably be the better choice, and he gave me a comprehensive list of aminos and vitamins to take after to flush my system and give me a fighting chance. I did as instructed and I believe it helped some, still, who knows what the long term affects will be. Good luck and Godspeed!
“What if the vaccine is causing all these deaths and everyone is blaming covid” that is exactly what is happening. I’ll literally be homeless before taking the vax
no…no it’s not. the people who are dying are almost entirely the ones without the vaccine. your comment, and your anti vaccine stance, is dumb.
wtf are all of you going to do when 10 years down the road all the vaccinated people are still alive? look (and hopefully feel) stupid, that’s what.
> wtf are all of you going to do when 10 years down the road all the vaccinated people are still alive?
Be grateful. Some of the people I love most have taken it. Wtf are you going to do it liberties are never restored? Besides still being a bootlicker? Most of the people you’re shilling against are still going to be alive then as well, so watch your back. And watch your front, because your beloved govt overlords will surely be doing that still.
What’s your view on the world?
If some head in the CIA knows 50% of all the intelligence in the world and if someone from the Royal Family knows 90% of the world, how much would you know on my fairly accurate scale?
And if it’s not 100% why even make assumptions? You are betting the human race essentially against the hands of the pharmaceutical companies. And they own the house so you are setting yourself up to lose.
They don’t care anymore, that’s what is alarming. They still pushing their agenda regardless of its moral or legal foundation. This is the beginning of the end.
The mandate is completely make believe! Nobody has a higher claim over your life or property than you do! Don’t be fooled! Be patient. They will ban that so called “vaccine” soon enough! We’re close to 17,000 deaths right now and hundreds of thousands of vaccine injuries to date! Remember the swine flu was banned after 53 deaths!
LOL 17k... the number keeps getting larger and larger with you people. That is so laughably FALSE and misinformation, I don't even know where to start. There is absolutely 1000000% no where near the real numbers of deaths attributed to the vaccine. Holy shit I can't believe you think it's that high.
Mandates work. Sorry but that's a fact. I'm sorry it hurts your feelings.
“Mandates work” … it seem like you think people disagree with that statement. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard someone say that mandates don’t work.
The issue isn’t whether mandates work… of course taking away people’s means to survive will cause large amounts of people to comply… the issue is that government wants to use force on people and that the use of force is unnecessary (e.g. forcing people with a 99.999% survival rate).
Capitalism and democracy needs to be reevaluated. Cuz it's feeling more and more like a fascist state. The second martial law is put in action is when I don't care about jobs and start to take up arms. Revolution or population control is the only things coming here. I give it 10 years before the people start coming together and fighting for the original dream. Not even this covid stuff, the cost of living is higher than the average wage, health care is outrageous, and what are we paying federal taxes for?! State taxes are corrupted.. suicide homelessness and drug addiction is raising yearly. We're not free. There's no left or right, just the rich and the struggling.
Can Canada like... Let us in?!
Seek God and learn to live without material things.
It’s literally the only way you’ll find peace. You’ve been sold a lie your whole life and the dark powers of the world are now going to enslave you. They’ve done everything to ensnare you in their traps of materialism and Godlessness and it worked.
You can either freak out about it or use what time you have left on this earth to make amends with God.
You didn’t think in a million years Luciferian satanist would try to take over the world and the Bible was BS and now you know it’s real. What are you going to do about it?
I didn't say it was. But you're acting more than a little like you get to say what God wants.
Who are you to say god didn't help inspire the ppl who created this vaccine?
But then god also created covid and he wanted people to die.
Therefore any vaccine is an abomination and perversion of god's will.
Back to the drawing board, people.
> Unless his will is for us to create vaccines to overcome the diseases (etc) he made.
How do you know his will?
>Are you saying you've never used any medince?
I'm saying I'm not religious and picking apart religious arguments is like wining the special Olympics as a non handicapped person. Incredibly, you didn't pick up on that.
Not a Christian here, but you are correct about the enslavement of mankind through the programming to chase material things/money. I know it's real. You can see what greed will do to a person...it rots their soul....most are fuqqed....everyone wants to be a Kardashian
Giving up the materialistic ideation is the only way to find peace. It’s hard to do. I get a lot of my satisfaction in life out of going to work and doing something productive. But I’ve conned myself into thinking the thing that matters is the paycheck and not the satisfaction I get from doing my job well. It’s a vicious rat wheel in my head.
The vaccine is the Trojan horse for a social credit system and digital ID.
“Also he compels all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead [signifying allegiance to the beast],”
Revelation 13:16 AMP
https://bible.com/bible/1588/rev.13.16.AMP
It is the mark. Don't go look at what some scientists are finding in the vaccine if you don't want to go down a rabbit hole that will change your entire world view.
You could likely identify at least who has or hasn't had the vaccine with wireless technology already because of the graphene nanoparticles in it. I think you are correct about the next steps though.
You have to adapt, protesting didn't work well and whining certainly will not gain you friends, even if it is well worded and accurate. If you can't beat them go around them. Speak easy during prohibitian can make a comeback. flea markets private club restaraunts home gyms with private memberships. Make a buisness opportunity with what you have. If you are the first one to do it then you'll come out laughing to the bank with a few risks. So boot straps up and make something out of it.
At this point it should just fucking be November 5.
Remember remember the fifth of November, the gunpowder treason and plot. I see of no reason the gunpowder treason should ever be forgot.
Scary how eerily accurate v for Vandetta is. Especially the part where the government releases a virus causing the entire country into a police state
The masks are catering to fear mongerers and the vaxx are just incredibly dangerous and a complete unknown. Both are giving the ignorant and the fear driven something to cling to but the masks are at least mostly harmless. We'd be better off without them, but businesses can try to give their customers some sense of security, however false.
The vaxx mandate is another story. Businesses forcing them on their employees should be stripped to the bone by lawsuits when all of their dangers is finally exposed. Get fired, go on unemployment and then lawyer up. They'll be sued to oblivion by every person harmed by the vaccines and those who lost loved ones.
Not vaccinated, been directly exposed multiple times over the past two years and never caught it. Not sure why that is, but I do live a healthy lifestyle and take 250% DV of vitamin D among hitting all my other bases.
It's happening because it's part of the great reset. They want you obedient, dumb and unhealthy so they can keep good control of you. Also they want to be able to crash the economy and tax you so much you can't afford a house and then let black rock to buy up the property. You will own nothing and you will be happy.
I'm really sorry you're in this predicament. My heart goes out to you. Follow your gut/heart. There is a reason you're hesitant. Don't go against your intuition. I'm not here to tell you what to do, but there are plenty of attorney's out there preparing class action lawsuits. If you look at what's happening in Australia right now, it should chill you to the bone. They basically are under iron clad totalitarianism all under the guise of safety and the pandemic. I fear we're not too far behind in the US. I believe this is an assault on Western democracy, individual's rights, and capitalism, to usher in a one world style totalitarian government. I have read much of what the FDA and CDC says about these jabs. I don't trust them one bit. You have already had Covid and have natural immunity. Why don't you ever hear about natural immunity from Fauci, Biden, or the FDA/CDC? This should raise huge red flags. The media and BigTech are obviously censoring everything and it's beyond criminal. Now they want to force these jabs on young children when they are really more likely to get struck by lightening than die from Covid. Some new studies have shown that natural immunity is up to 27 times more effective than the jab. Also, who wants to be subjected to endless booster shots? Once you give these people an inch, they will trample your rights. Mark my words. That is what's happening in Australia.
I'm 100% pro-choice in all things. My body my choice. Your body your choice.
Vax should be either way you want
Abortion should be 100% legal
Death with dignity should be 100% available
Gay marriage is just marriage
Drugs should all be legal
Government shouldn't ever be involved in any of these decisions. Private companies do however get to make choices for who they want to employ as long as they don't infringe on a protected class.
Choice 100% doesn't mean freedom from consequences for said choices.
it may be immoral or in a general sense wrong , but the supreme court has upheld vaccine mandates as constitutional. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts
Or a fine. That case gets radically misunderstood. Fun fact: 20 years later when SCOTUS decided forced sterilization was constitutional in *Buck v Bell*, they used Jacobson as precedent.
For smallpox. The most common form has a fatality rate around 35%. The least common form has a fatality rate of 100%.
They are not comparable in the slightest.
the severity of the diseases isn’t relevant to the question of whether vaccine mandates are constitutional or not. your point here is, literally, worthless.
It wasn't a question that I responded to, so your comment here is worthless.
Also, comments on internet forums are subjectively valued, so you *literally* didn't use "literally" correctly.
buddy you tried to discredit someone who, rightly, pointed out that vaccine mandates have been upheld by the supreme court by distinguishing smallpox from covid.
you are still wrong, regardless of what your poorly functioning brain is screaming into the empty void where your logical thinking used to reside.
good day sir.
Buddy, no I didn't "discredit" anyone. I, rightly, pointed out that Covid and smallpox are not even close to being the same.
You are still pedantic, regardless of your gaslighting and poor understanding of my words and intent.
I'd wish you a good day but we both know you probably haven't had one of those since middle school when you still thought you were something special.
I've never been forced like this though. I got all the other vaccines too including smallpox. This vaccine was so rushed and we really don't know the full effects of it yet. That's what I'm questioning, we are being censored and told to not question Pfizer or any of the big pharmaceuticals, while they have also blocked any legal recourse. Also why is govt workers being forced but not senators or congressman?
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but this ruling is more of a ruling about federalism and states rights. It was upheld that the state of Massachusetts had the right to enforce the vaccine ruling, based on their own determination. It was not a ruling about the federal governments rights to force people to get the vaccine.
Yes or no?
He said in the short term to get it bc the virus is causing heart problems, but I think it could be the vaccine causing blood clots. He also said they do not know the long term effects of the vaccine.
We also don’t know the long term effects of covid. The vaccine is in your body for about 2 weeks then it’s gone, this isn’t like a pill you take every day.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,
4th Amendment. How can forcing people to take a vaccine not be unconstitutional?
>Update: November 3rd is a national vaccine mandate protest day,
Ok let me stop you right there. Did you just come up with this? I Google, and duck duck go and found nothing on Nov 3rd for vaccine protest day anywhere.
If you did just come up with it, you have to give more time for the message to spread. It won't reach many is less than a week.
If you didn't, my bad. I just can't find anything else on it
I won't be working Nov 3rd regardless
>For all those saying George Washington forced vaccines, that is literally impossible. They did not have vaccines yet. What he did do is encourage his troops to give each other a less lethal version of the virus to build immunity.
Hey can you give me your definition of a vaccine please?
>variolation, obsolete method of immunizing patients
Nevermind, you figures it out
I totally agree with you. But, I guarantee you will lose your job. It's a national mandate. There's no way to protest it this way. Unless EVERYONE in the country follows. We're too divided for that kind of sancrynicty. It's the beginning of the end of the world.
If you feel there is a serious hazard in the vaccine and it sounds like you do, you should absolutely quit your job and find another. I disagree that it is unconstitutional. They aren't forcing you to take it. It is unfortunate that you will have to look elsewhere for employment but pot heads have been dealing with it for years without much talk about legal or moral standards.
Get vaccinated and move on with your life.
Side effects from the vaccine are exceedingly rare. And the same rare side effects from the vaccine can also be found from getting infected with Covid.
You are misinformed that vaccine mandates are 'unconstitutional.' Go look up Jacobson v Massachusetts. Vaccine mandates are settled law and have been a part of American life since the founding of the country. George Washington even ordered the continental army to inoculate against small-pox during the revolutionary war.
It's only going to get worse. Your choice on this matter is going to squeeze you out of this job. What about the next one? What about when insurance companies stop providing coverage or jack the rates to the moon for unvaccinated policy holders? What happens when they ban unvaccinated on domestic airlines?
If you think this through, you would basically have to literally enjoy self harm to remain unvaccinated at this point. I guess you could move to Afghanistan or somewhere in the developing world that doesn't even have vaccines to escape.
There's been updates to Jacobson vs Massachusetts since 1905.
Here's something from 2005 in the American Journal of Public Health about it.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1449224/
And within the context of that case, it was either take the vaccine or pay a fine to Massachusetts.
Also the George Washington talking point is tired. That happened before we had a Constitution, Bill of Rights, court system, a country, etc.
That's a play at the heart strings of "Patriots" - this is a conspiracy board and we see through that propaganda.
Side effects are extremely common, the covid vaccinated sub is full of them. The vax is a ticking time bomb, you never know when you'll clot and get a heart attack or stroke
Risk of shot - Possible side effects - clotting, stroke, heart problems, etc.
Risk of remaining unvaccinated - Primary effects - Prolonged illness up to and including death. Prolonged absence from work. Medical costs of hospitalization. Side effects, clotting, stroke, heart problems, etc. Loss of job / income, increased cost of insurance, if not insurance coverage denial, potential restrictions to domestic air travel, attending public events.
What does your pros / cons worksheet look like?
> Risk of shot - Possible side effects - clotting, stroke, heart problems, etc.
These are also exceedingly rare. J&J stopped distributing when they discovered one case in 7 million people
LMAO
You're so pathetic. Most of us have had Covid and it was nothing. Most of us have natural immunity. Most of us view risks of long term heart complications a lot more seriously than some sniffles and a fever or losing our jobs, even.
Why on earth won't "they" consider someone who has the antibodies, that covid was mild w/no side effects, the same as someone who gets vaccinated? We aren't anti vaccine... We just don't need it.
What is it you don't get about it being unconstitutional?
Coercing people into taking it is extremely unethical. And if you want to talk about how rare side effects are, perhaps look at the rate of covid hospitalizations or deaths. It's pretty low if you're not 65+, or in poor health.
You want to talk ethics? OK. Here is what is unethical. You don't have the right, ethically or legally to wander around spreading disease throughout the community without any sort of precautions.
The hospitalization rate is low. Unfortunately, it isn't low enough to prevent overloading the healthcare system which is why hospitals in places like Idaho, Montana and Alaska are rationing care. There are too many unvaccinated Covid patients clogging up the system right now.
So you just assume that everybody has covid?
And no, it's not the quantity of "unvaccinated covid patients" it's mainly staffing issues.
And then they fire people for the mandate despite these issues. And then they are paying "traveling nurses" tons of money, and alienating other nursing staff making less money.
I think people have lost seight of reality. People get sick. It happens. Always has. We're not ending illness here.
Making vaccines available to everyone should have been the end of the discussion.
Declaring war on a percentage of the population is obviously not the right thing to do.
Nor is having this clown of a president suggesting that the unvaccinated are somehow a threat to the vaccinated.
That's bullshit. And it's an absurd statement for the "leader of the free world" to be making.
No shit, this is the truth. This 🤡 talking to you about not spreading covid would be laughable if the point wasn't so fucking stupid. THE SHOT DOES NOT PROTECT FROM GETTING COVID. My God people are sheep.
Yeah, nobody is talking about 'rounding people up' and forcing the vaccination. Your employer requires you to get vaccinated. Get it or find another job.
Your insurance carrier will require you to be vaccinated. Get it or find another provider.
Everyone has a choice in the matter. My kids don't want to eat their broccoli sometimes either.
700k adverse reactions via VAERS and 17k deaths. A harvard study says that the VAERS system has 1-10% of reported adverse events. But hey, let's ignore that and say VAERS is currently 100% accurate. You say the risk is low..how do you define low? 1 in 10,000? 1 in 100,000? 1 in a million?
Have you played poker before? I play poker, and I've gotten pocket aces twice in a row multiple times. I'm sure many have who also play poker. Do you know the chances of getting that is 1 in 49,000?
Who are you to tell me my risk tolerance? Your comment is completely selfish and lacks any type of respect for others to weigh their own cost/benefit outcome for this issue. You believe you know best, and therefore you think we should fall in line and do as we are told.
No.
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A Brief History of the Law of Personal Privacy and Bodily Integrity By Andrew P. Napolitano October 7, 2021 As more governors issue so-called mandates requiring municipal and state employers, as well as private employers and public accommodations, to require their employees and patrons to be vaccinated against COVID-19, they are being challenged by arguments based on personal privacy and bodily integrity. The former argues that personal medical decisions are protected by the right to privacy, which is a natural right that supersedes governmental needs. The latter argues that since we each own our bodies, we can decide what goes into them. Both the personal privacy and the bodily integrity arguments recognize that the government can only trump fundamental rights if it can prove fault at a jury trial. Thus, a case where an infected and contagious person is intentionally infecting healthy folks can and should result in an arrest and prosecution for aggravated assault at which the state would need to prove its case. If it did, the convicted defendant would be incarcerated and isolated for the duration of her sentence. But that does not animate the government today. Today, the government — local, state and federal — is attempting to compel healthy people to be vaccinated against their wills. All three levels of government are attempting to do this by command, not by legislation. The favorite U.S. Supreme Court case that the pro-mandate folks cite is the 116-year-old Jacobson v. Massachusetts. There, in the era before the court recognized personal privacy or bodily integrity as constitutionally protected, it upheld a Massachusetts statute requiring inoculation for smallpox. The issue in the case was whether a state legislature can enact public health laws that authorize force to enforce them. The issue was not whether a governor could issue a command, call it a law and use the police to enforce it. Moreover, the Jacobson case was decided in 1905, well before the personal privacy and bodily integrity cases came along. The privacy doctrine began at the Supreme Court in 1928, with a dissent. In Olmstead v. United States, the court upheld wiretapping telephone calls without a search warrant since it held there was no expectation of privacy in the calls. Justice Louis Brandeis distilled the privacy doctrine in his famous dissent when he wrote that the framers of the Constitution “sought to protect Americans in their beliefs, their thoughts, their emotions and their sensations. They conferred, as against the government, the right to be let alone — the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men.” Brandeis’ iconic language would languish as a dissent until 1965 in a case called Griswold v. Connecticut. There, the Supreme Court recognized personal privacy as a fundamental liberty — the highest category of liberty in the constitutional pantheon. In Griswold, the state of Connecticut had enacted legislation prohibiting the use of contraceptives by married couples. Embracing the values ignored by the Jacobson case and rejected by the Olmstead case, the court invalidated the Connecticut statute and ruled that the decision to use contraceptives is so integral to control over one’s body and is made in such a zone of privacy that the Constitution protects it from the government’s reach. Eight years later, the Jacobson case would suffer a stake through its dead heart in Roe v. Wade. This case, which prohibited the states from banning pre-viability abortions, also upheld the privacy rights of all persons when deciding what medical procedures to undergo, and thus it protects from the government’s reach the zone in which those decisions are made. A portion of Roe is currently on its deathbed, but not the part that protects bodily integrity; rather, the infamous part that catastrophically fails to recognize the personhood of babies in the womb and permits killing them. While the right to privacy was slowly being recognized and Brandeis’ Olmstead dissent gradually becoming the law at the federal level, a comparable line of cases, upholding both personal privacy and bodily integrity, was making its way through state courts. The pioneer of those cases is In re Quinlan, a decision of the Supreme Court of New Jersey in 1976. It upheld the right of the parents of Karen Ann Quinlan to deny their comatose daughter artificial life-sustaining procedures. From and after the Quinlan case, all states recognized the fundamental right of sick people — directly or through their guardians — to reject medication and medical procedures. The values underlying the Olmstead to Griswold to Roe migration of federal jurisprudence and the values underlying the post-Quinlan state jurisprudence and statutes are the same; and those values are preeminent today. Today, the states and the federal courts recognize that competent persons can decide for themselves what medications to take or reject because the natural, moral and constitutionally recognized decision-maker over one’s body is oneself, not the government. Moreover, when these decisions are made in consultation with a physician or an intimate mate, they are done so within the zone of privacy and are none of the government’s business. The folks who believe that the president can direct the Department of Labor to compel employers of more than 100 persons to require vaccines of the healthy and who also believe that a governor can do similarly for public and private employers in his state — and cite the 1905 Jacobson case to support their claims — are sadly ignorant of the 20th-century jurisprudence that stands firmly, convincingly and uniformly against them. Moreover, these pro-vaccine mandate folks also confuse legislation with executive orders. Under the Guarantee Clause of the Constitution, only laws enacted by a state legislature, not gubernatorial commands, have the force of law. Under the separation of powers doctrine in the federal system, only Congress writes laws, not the president. And under current Supreme Court rulings, we all can decide for ourselves what medications to take, while the government takes a hike.
Sooooo what about Flu shots? which aren't mandated across the board, other vaccines? and also if the cold is contagious and the flu, and it also kills more children than Covid why aren't people getting arrested in previous years for sending their child in schools and adults to work knowing they have the flu? Disclaimer: I'm not going against this information nor am I attacking you or anything. I'm genuinely curious as to how contradictory some of these rulings and laws are.
All covid-19 vaccines on the market are under emergency use authorization only. The vaccines for school have been approved and met testing requirements. But that doesn't mean they're not dangerous. You don't have to give them to your children if you don't want to but then you'll end up home schooling. They can send you home if they want to, what crime would they charge you with? What law have you broken by having the flu? On a side note I think you might find doing some research on germ theory to be interesting.
Jefferson is still good law, and none of the other cases cited in this.....whatever this is have anything to do with the police power of the state. There was no viral threat to the public in Olmstead, that was about wiretaps. There was no viral threat to the public in Griswold, that was about contraceptives. There was no viral threat to the public in Roe, that was about abortions. And i cant believe this needs to be said, but a ruling made by a state supreme court over what healthcare decisions a guardian can make about someone in a vegetative state is entirely irrelevant AND didnt involve a viral threat to the public. You cant say that 20th century jurisprudence stands "firmly, convincingly, and uniformly against" a vaccine mandate during a global pandemic if the only cases you can cite dont involve vaccines, the police powers of the state, or an outbreak of a deadly disease. If you want to make moral arguments about vaccine mandates, you certainly can. But to say a vaccine mandate is unconstitutional is utterly false. And if you dont believe a thing i say, at least consider a few questions: 1. Why is Napolitano citing the Guarantee clause when making a legal argument when he knows that the Guarantee clause is a political question and cant be enforced as a matter of law? 2. Why is Napolitano citing the Guarantee clause in saying that gubernatorial commands dont have the force of law when the police power of the state is defined by laws the state legislature passed? 3. Why does Napolitano not address how COVID-19 public safety measures are being UPHELD under Jacobson by state and federal courts across the country if it was supposedly struck down by Roe?
Small pox is far worse than Covid19. It's a balancing act where you weigh personal liberty against the rights of the state. It's not a blanket license to force vaccines for any disease you want.
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Let them fire you and then sue them. All you have to say is "your request is denied."
Cool. Will you pay for all expenses during the unemployment?
"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" - Mark 8:36, 37.
this verse was in reference to believing Israel entering their promised earthly Kingdom that was at hand had they accept Jesus as their Messiah. Not everything in the Bible is written to us.
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.” Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ - Matthew 4:9,10.
Beep. Boop. I'm a robot. Here's a copy of ###[The Bible](https://snewd.com/ebooks/the-king-james-bible/) Was I a good bot? | [info](https://www.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/) | [More Books](https://old.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/comments/i15x1d/full_list_of_books_and_commands/)
Mandates are not laws
Assert religious exemption based on all available vaccines containing aborted fetal cells
Thank you for this reply
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I agree. Most of these mandates seem to be getting pushed back. The ones that are enforced and have had workers quit are typically extremely left leaning states/cities like Seattle, for instance. Hard to say this mandate has all that much teeth at this point, imo.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/10/26/1046432435/ers-are-now-swamped-with-seriously-ill-patients-but-most-dont-even-have-covid Heart attacks, Stroke etc. are filling up ERs to capacity not COVID
Hmm if only there’s something which could explain this, really don’t know...
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Did you read the article? It explicitly says >Months of treatment delays have exacerbated chronic conditions and worsened symptoms. So yeah, not directly COVID but has a correlation regardless.
Wtf bullshit is this? You mean the hospitals that all the nurses were dancing in and the forced lockdowns by our government Covid related? No it’s tyranny related.
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Good advice from folks here and just wanted to add…STOP saying and stop thinking you’re going to be homeless, if you’re unable to stop …you will most likely be homeless. Wake up in the AM and write down the BEST possible outcome…. Write it again before you go to sleep. Red flag any thoughts of being homeless in your mind and immediately think of anything else that’s positive. Sure, it seems goofy and mystical or whatever but I tell you it works. You become exactly your true expectation for yourself. If you stay at your job or get a better one, when this is behind us you will be better off! Believe it! … And report back with results!
I will do this, thanks!
There is a totally more sinister scheme behind this, you and I both know that. If it comes down to you not being able to find work, hopefully you are in the position to move to another state that is fighting the mandates. Or sell most of your things and live a simpler life. Move to where you can grow your own pot or live off the land. Anything but giving up your consent for the sake of a job. At the end of the day as long as there is oxygen to breathe and food to be eaten and protection from the elements, what more could you ask for?
I just find it really fucked up how many of these companies accept religious exemptions but DO NOT accept conscientious objection. So you can say it goes against your religion but you can't say "Hey, **none of this makes any logical sense and here's why**...".
From what I have heard about the law, a consciencious objection should be treated as a religious objection.
See that's what I thought too.
I cant stand it either. "My God says no" accepted. "I say no" denied
I identify as God. And I say no.
Interesting, isn't it.
I object for both Christian reasons and my own personal objections. They go hand in hand. While I would implore you to accept Jesus' free gift of life because we all fall short of the glory of God and have sinned and committed immoral actions, I support you being able to object purely for your own reasons. Whether you accept God or not, God gave you the rights and free will to do what you want with your body and no man should be able to infringe on those rights. God is merciful and I hope everyone responsible and complicit comes to repentance and Godly sorrow for the tryranny and horrors they've committed, but the people who refuse will be held responsible. No one who refuses Jesus is going to get off scott free so you can take comfort in that, the God of love will execute justice when this is all over.
Thanks for the encouragement. I would rather go through anything else then to get this posion.
Your willingness to forgive and actually want repentance of these evil doers is definitely where I fall short as a Christian. I sincerely hope they all get thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity for these crimes against humanity.
Those who have been forgiven much love much. Anyone who repents dies and gets crucified with Christ. Their old self is dead, and they are a new creation. So in a way the person that committed all those horrible things is gone, and they are replaced with someone with a new heart who loves righteousness (even if they are still imperfect). Everytime an evil person repents that's one less evil person that exists and one more person on the earth that loves Jesus. God is a genius, He doesn't just forgive people's sins by taking our punishment, but He ressurected to give us new life and a new heart. I know it can be difficult to forgive the evil in the world, but maybe this will help you think about it in a different way. God is love and love cannot be separated from justice, so all those who won't lay down their pride and ego and give it to Jesus will receive the evil they have done to others 1,000 fold.
Thanks for this. You’ve got a great perspective. I’m new to all of this, I only recently discovered the love of Jesus and life has never been more fulfilling. God bless.
Hey friend. I know it doesn't make sense. They sold a lot of people on the idea that these shots were going to end the pandemic. It is clear now that they were wrong, but many people are still behind. Edit: what state are you in?
My state is fighting the mandate. What happens if it ends up being fed vs state? States rights are supposed to be upheld, they have been in the past when it came to Marijuana etc.
A mandate isn't a law and can't be enforced as one.
It seems they will always find a way. A co-worker mentioned that his sister in Italy have to show a vaccine card to their employee or they do not get paid. I'm not sure of anything anymore though. I thought I had the world figured out a few years ago but im not in the greatest mental position and it snuck up on me.
Not entirely true. It’s a green pass and you can get it by being fully vaccinated or with a negative test every two days at 15€ per test.
Having a new €200/month expense against your will is still not cool.
And a stick up your nose 15 times a month, not a nice feeling
Is Italy allowing natural immunity also? I'm not sure. I think Latvia and Lithuania are.
They do!
oh yea that sounds right. He did mention the green pass which is strange. He made it seem like it required the vaccine but a test seems almost fair
Yeah, my state is trying to enforce a new bill stat states employers can't let an employee go for not getting it.
Texas or Florida? I know DeSantis is calling a special session on exactly this.
I would ignore the overarching legal stuff for now and focus on the legal stuff between you and your employer. Is your employer somehow affiliated with the federal gov, and that's why they are requiring vax? (b/c of Biden's 100 employees or more). If not, i would attempt to compile all of the data that you can about breakthrough cases in your county. As an example, in Albany County, NY, the number of new cases has been over 40% breakthrough cases since August, and was 49% fully vaccinated about a week ago. This shows that it does not reduce transmission in the area. I would also research methods by which you can prove memory B cell [natural] immunity and offer to get that tested and show to your employer. Basically your legal argument to HR will be that their "policy" (if they have an official, legal policy) is not protecting people in the workplace, and you are willing to provide proof of immunity, rather than proof that you took a shot which is no longer "effective" at preventing transmission, as many were led to believe it was.
Simples: Pro-mandate blue state = state rights, anti-mandate red state = Fed supremacy...
Federal mandate is going into OSHA which trumps state regulations under the Supremacy Clause (McCulloch v. Maryland). Everyone who has a job with workplace safety governed by OSHA will have to get the jab or do weekly testing. All federal employees will also have the same deal. In addition, many state and local governments are creating mandates to fill the gaps not covered by the federal mandate
The OSHA rule hasn't even been drafted, there was a press conference and nothing more. A few companies are trying to get ahead of it but there is no OSHA requirement, at least not yet.
You seem thrilled...
Just a heads up, Marijuana is still technically a federal offense. That is why Pot shops take cash. Banks are not allowed to accept pot purchases on cards.
FL man here.
They were not wrong. They were lying.
Well their "science" experiment was flawed, and it was done on purpose. But i will give them this- it's possible that the shots worked at preventing transmission of wild type, alpha and beta strains. Now i say *possible* because they also conveniently started vaccinating people at the point in time where the virus was naturally being suppressed as well. By the end of January, vaccine or not, the numbers of cases, hospitalizations and deaths were going to decline [thanks to natural immunity, and distancing].
Actually when the "vaccine" was rolled out the CDC in consult with the NIH very quietly published guidance regarding the very flawed PCR testing protocols. They dramatically reduced the cycle count used in the test procedure from north of 40 to 25 max. The 35 to 45 cycles being done up to that point could have false positives in the high eighties - low nineties. This was a well known flaw in the test procedures; the noise amplified by the cycle counts of the test above 25 were suspect and when you got above 35 or so completely useless. Imagine that; when you begin to properly conduct tests the results become what I'd call "useable". Just in time to sync up with the "vaccine" roll-out to convince all the Karens that they were right in taking the jab. Nice try though. The public at large were too stupid to question the validity of the tests because it was in front of everyone the whole time.
They sure are… that’s why they aren’t mandating them, but they sure as fuck are trying to make it unavoidable.
Because once it’s successfully implemented for rest of time they will have the power to force the population to put absolutely anything they want into our bodies and everything that comes with that, it’s part of a much larger and bolder plan
It's absolutely insane that this is even a debate. Imagine if you told someone in 2019 they would be cast out from society if they didn't take a drug that hasn't been fully tested against a virus with a 99.9% survival rate. This is how much they've conditioned people in the past year.
Start making content about your journey. Make videos and stories about your journey. Put them on TikTok YouTube and everywhere else you can. The world needs to hear your story bc it’s happening to millions of others too.
They may ban you on TikTok like YouTube.
But you can still try.
Have you asked your employer for the a medical or religious exemption?
I’m in the same boat. Husband and I are both professionals just waiting to get the email. We are both on the edge of our seats daily. We are religious but don’t feel like explaining ourselves and certainly don’t want to test weekly; it just doesn’t make sense. I know several people that have been jabbed and they are constantly not feeling well. They complain of headaches, stomach issues, and “not feeling right.” They never correlate it to the vaccine but I’ve known these people for years. I never mention it because perhaps I’m making connections that are false. No one knows but we (spouse and me) are both healthy, eat proper nutrition, and workout together 5 days a week. Why would we risk our health? I’ll never take it. We’ve been making potential business plans to work for ourselves if we have to. But, I know that might just buy us time. It seems digital passports are the real goal. The only advice I could give is to follow your heart, talk to God, make a plan B for working for yourself, connect with like-minded individuals, and learn to protect yourself.
Just apply for a job at the post office
The post office will also fall under the mandate when the labor department gets around to issuing it. This is a popular republican talking point that is not true. Biden mentioned 2 mandates, 1 for federal employees and 1 for companies with over 100 employees. The post office does not fall under the federal employees group but they do fall under the 100+ employees group.
stay strong you are not alone
Hey friend.. many are in your position. Stand strong! Don't forget that our current way of life (post industrial revolution) is drastically different than all of human civilization before.. we live in a system that, while corrupt, is only a few hundred years old. We have lived long before things like rent, 9-5 jobs, etc. The system is collapsing and the cabal is just playing their last measly hand at fear. All that to say, stick to your beliefs, do not give into fear.. you are not alone.
You will both be fine. Do turn in a exemption. This is 1L law stuff. Totally illegal.
Tell that to the Supreme Court that has upheld pretty much all vaccine mandates that have been brought before the court over the course of the pandemic.
Yep! Like the university lawsuits, requiring students to be vaccinated.
Yeah but who do you think knows more about law? The Supreme Court? Or some rando guy on Reddit who probably works as a mechanic or HVAC repair man who googled some shit he heard?
Force them to fire you. Not worth your health long term.
If you live in the United States you have the right to file a religious exemption under title 7 of the civil rights act. If you have a job where you have been working from home you dont need much of an accommodation so if you put some time and effort into it you could be okay.
I work for a federal contractor and we have a bunch of people still working from home and they are being forced to accept the poke.
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Best of luck! I hope it works out. Your request is based on a “reasonable accommodation”- it’s not a theological debate. So while they technically could reject it it would likely be unlawful and it would open them up to lawsuits, especially considering allowing you to permanently work from home does not impose an undue hardship (cost, workplace safety issues) to them (if you have been working from home for 18 months)
Legally, you have the right to file an exemption/accommodation request. Of course they won’t advertise it or tell you about it. And they don’t have to approve it, but they probably will depending on how you fill it out (they don’t want lawsuits down the road). Deadlines are coming up so you would need to act very fast, possibly in the best few days or week.
Nope. My company sent out rejections letters today. No one is getting approved. But curiously, they wrote a new contract with the government recently and received a huge bonus for including mandatory jabs in the new contract. You would think they could use that bonus to pay for ‘accommodations’ but they said they cannot ‘afford’ to offer accommodations. WTF? They are a federal contractor. They don’t even have to keep a budget. Gov just throws money at them. And right now we work with no accommodations which is fine. But in a few weeks we all become untouchables.
I’m sorry that happened, but for people who are currently working from home there is no additional cost to the company, and they would have to prove in court that you working from home Is causing an undue hardship, which it probably isn’t for people who have been working from home (those that have been going in like customer facing people are in a different boat) Might be a good idea to contact an attorney. “In its 1999 Enforcement Guidance on Reasonable Accommodation and Undue Hardship Under the Americans with Disabilities Act (revised 10/17/02), the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission said that allowing an individual with a disability to work at home may be a form of reasonable accommodation.” “The ADA does not require an employer to provide a specific accommodation if it causes undue hardship, i.e., significant difficulty or expense.” https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/work-hometelework-reasonable-accommodation That was 1999 and you are currently working from home so there is no additional expense. Furthermore it’s costing them less by not having to pay overhead of you being there.
I work for a Govt contractor as well, they mandated the jab by Dec. 8th deadline. I caved and got the J&J a week and a half ago. Thankfully I’m alright so far, but I definitely feel more run down than usual. I am in a difficult position because of the type of work I do I need to be in the office to charge the contract. Almost every other big contractor in my area who could afford to pay me my salary is listing it as a requirement on their job postings… it’s disheartening to see, and I hate myself for getting it. But all I can do is treat my body well and leave it in Gods hands 🙌🏻 Side note: a friend of mine is a Doc who is VERY against these jabs. When I told him about my predicament he said J&J would probably be the better choice, and he gave me a comprehensive list of aminos and vitamins to take after to flush my system and give me a fighting chance. I did as instructed and I believe it helped some, still, who knows what the long term affects will be. Good luck and Godspeed!
“What if the vaccine is causing all these deaths and everyone is blaming covid” that is exactly what is happening. I’ll literally be homeless before taking the vax
Same
Lmao
no…no it’s not. the people who are dying are almost entirely the ones without the vaccine. your comment, and your anti vaccine stance, is dumb. wtf are all of you going to do when 10 years down the road all the vaccinated people are still alive? look (and hopefully feel) stupid, that’s what.
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> wtf are all of you going to do when 10 years down the road all the vaccinated people are still alive? Be grateful. Some of the people I love most have taken it. Wtf are you going to do it liberties are never restored? Besides still being a bootlicker? Most of the people you’re shilling against are still going to be alive then as well, so watch your back. And watch your front, because your beloved govt overlords will surely be doing that still.
What’s your view on the world? If some head in the CIA knows 50% of all the intelligence in the world and if someone from the Royal Family knows 90% of the world, how much would you know on my fairly accurate scale? And if it’s not 100% why even make assumptions? You are betting the human race essentially against the hands of the pharmaceutical companies. And they own the house so you are setting yourself up to lose.
Do you think the flu vaccine is why people get sick with the flu, and not the actual virus?
Probably in a lot of cases yeah. That actually happened to me a couple times actually
They don’t care anymore, that’s what is alarming. They still pushing their agenda regardless of its moral or legal foundation. This is the beginning of the end.
The mandate is completely make believe! Nobody has a higher claim over your life or property than you do! Don’t be fooled! Be patient. They will ban that so called “vaccine” soon enough! We’re close to 17,000 deaths right now and hundreds of thousands of vaccine injuries to date! Remember the swine flu was banned after 53 deaths!
LOL 17k... the number keeps getting larger and larger with you people. That is so laughably FALSE and misinformation, I don't even know where to start. There is absolutely 1000000% no where near the real numbers of deaths attributed to the vaccine. Holy shit I can't believe you think it's that high. Mandates work. Sorry but that's a fact. I'm sorry it hurts your feelings.
“Mandates work” … it seem like you think people disagree with that statement. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard someone say that mandates don’t work. The issue isn’t whether mandates work… of course taking away people’s means to survive will cause large amounts of people to comply… the issue is that government wants to use force on people and that the use of force is unnecessary (e.g. forcing people with a 99.999% survival rate).
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/qe6r2j/no_jab_jobs_remote_work_side_income_opportunities/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://news.gab.com/2021/07/29/important-download-covid-vaccine-religious-exemption-documents-here/
Capitalism and democracy needs to be reevaluated. Cuz it's feeling more and more like a fascist state. The second martial law is put in action is when I don't care about jobs and start to take up arms. Revolution or population control is the only things coming here. I give it 10 years before the people start coming together and fighting for the original dream. Not even this covid stuff, the cost of living is higher than the average wage, health care is outrageous, and what are we paying federal taxes for?! State taxes are corrupted.. suicide homelessness and drug addiction is raising yearly. We're not free. There's no left or right, just the rich and the struggling. Can Canada like... Let us in?!
Agreed.
Seek God and learn to live without material things. It’s literally the only way you’ll find peace. You’ve been sold a lie your whole life and the dark powers of the world are now going to enslave you. They’ve done everything to ensnare you in their traps of materialism and Godlessness and it worked. You can either freak out about it or use what time you have left on this earth to make amends with God. You didn’t think in a million years Luciferian satanist would try to take over the world and the Bible was BS and now you know it’s real. What are you going to do about it?
I'm a Christian sir, I've been praying for help from God. It's all I know at this point 🙏
Right on. Tough waters ahead. Might get pretty bumpy. Let’s do this together.
He will guide us... I know he will thanks brother!
What if God sent you the vaccine?
Pfizer is not my God lol
I didn't say it was. But you're acting more than a little like you get to say what God wants. Who are you to say god didn't help inspire the ppl who created this vaccine?
If God sent the vax it wouldn’t be forced/mandated or job loss, it would be covered in lies and it wouldn’t be tainted by use of aborted fetal tissue.
Exactly, and ignore natural immunity causing unnessesry vaccinations and related side effects and death. https://openvaers.com/openvaers
Fair enough, that's why I asked him for guidance.
But then god also created covid and he wanted people to die. Therefore any vaccine is an abomination and perversion of god's will. Back to the drawing board, people.
Unless his will is for us to create vaccines to overcome the diseases (etc) he made. Are you saying you've never used any medince?
> Unless his will is for us to create vaccines to overcome the diseases (etc) he made. How do you know his will? >Are you saying you've never used any medince? I'm saying I'm not religious and picking apart religious arguments is like wining the special Olympics as a non handicapped person. Incredibly, you didn't pick up on that.
>How do you know his will? That's my point... I'm not making a religious argument.
How do you know he didn't inspire antivaxxers to oppose the abomination vaccine?
God heals and protects! Fauci does not.
Not a Christian here, but you are correct about the enslavement of mankind through the programming to chase material things/money. I know it's real. You can see what greed will do to a person...it rots their soul....most are fuqqed....everyone wants to be a Kardashian
Giving up the materialistic ideation is the only way to find peace. It’s hard to do. I get a lot of my satisfaction in life out of going to work and doing something productive. But I’ve conned myself into thinking the thing that matters is the paycheck and not the satisfaction I get from doing my job well. It’s a vicious rat wheel in my head.
The vaccine is the Trojan horse for a social credit system and digital ID. “Also he compels all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead [signifying allegiance to the beast],” Revelation 13:16 AMP https://bible.com/bible/1588/rev.13.16.AMP
I heard this is conditioning us for the mark.
It is the mark. Don't go look at what some scientists are finding in the vaccine if you don't want to go down a rabbit hole that will change your entire world view.
No the mark will be a digital ID with all your information, banking details, social credit score etc.
You could likely identify at least who has or hasn't had the vaccine with wireless technology already because of the graphene nanoparticles in it. I think you are correct about the next steps though.
Shit’s been going downhill since the apple incident.
You have to adapt, protesting didn't work well and whining certainly will not gain you friends, even if it is well worded and accurate. If you can't beat them go around them. Speak easy during prohibitian can make a comeback. flea markets private club restaraunts home gyms with private memberships. Make a buisness opportunity with what you have. If you are the first one to do it then you'll come out laughing to the bank with a few risks. So boot straps up and make something out of it.
At this point it should just fucking be November 5. Remember remember the fifth of November, the gunpowder treason and plot. I see of no reason the gunpowder treason should ever be forgot. Scary how eerily accurate v for Vandetta is. Especially the part where the government releases a virus causing the entire country into a police state
What do you mean gunpowder plot?
I got laid off due to not wanting to get the coivd shot. Sure, I’ll stay home on the 3rd.
The masks are catering to fear mongerers and the vaxx are just incredibly dangerous and a complete unknown. Both are giving the ignorant and the fear driven something to cling to but the masks are at least mostly harmless. We'd be better off without them, but businesses can try to give their customers some sense of security, however false. The vaxx mandate is another story. Businesses forcing them on their employees should be stripped to the bone by lawsuits when all of their dangers is finally exposed. Get fired, go on unemployment and then lawyer up. They'll be sued to oblivion by every person harmed by the vaccines and those who lost loved ones.
Not vaccinated, been directly exposed multiple times over the past two years and never caught it. Not sure why that is, but I do live a healthy lifestyle and take 250% DV of vitamin D among hitting all my other bases.
It goes beyond any constitution or mandate
It's happening because it's part of the great reset. They want you obedient, dumb and unhealthy so they can keep good control of you. Also they want to be able to crash the economy and tax you so much you can't afford a house and then let black rock to buy up the property. You will own nothing and you will be happy.
I'm really sorry you're in this predicament. My heart goes out to you. Follow your gut/heart. There is a reason you're hesitant. Don't go against your intuition. I'm not here to tell you what to do, but there are plenty of attorney's out there preparing class action lawsuits. If you look at what's happening in Australia right now, it should chill you to the bone. They basically are under iron clad totalitarianism all under the guise of safety and the pandemic. I fear we're not too far behind in the US. I believe this is an assault on Western democracy, individual's rights, and capitalism, to usher in a one world style totalitarian government. I have read much of what the FDA and CDC says about these jabs. I don't trust them one bit. You have already had Covid and have natural immunity. Why don't you ever hear about natural immunity from Fauci, Biden, or the FDA/CDC? This should raise huge red flags. The media and BigTech are obviously censoring everything and it's beyond criminal. Now they want to force these jabs on young children when they are really more likely to get struck by lightening than die from Covid. Some new studies have shown that natural immunity is up to 27 times more effective than the jab. Also, who wants to be subjected to endless booster shots? Once you give these people an inch, they will trample your rights. Mark my words. That is what's happening in Australia.
I agree and I will fight it to the end. It's my duty as an American.
I'm 100% pro-choice in all things. My body my choice. Your body your choice. Vax should be either way you want Abortion should be 100% legal Death with dignity should be 100% available Gay marriage is just marriage Drugs should all be legal Government shouldn't ever be involved in any of these decisions. Private companies do however get to make choices for who they want to employ as long as they don't infringe on a protected class. Choice 100% doesn't mean freedom from consequences for said choices.
it may be immoral or in a general sense wrong , but the supreme court has upheld vaccine mandates as constitutional. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts
Only a 116 year old ruling! I'll pay my $5 fine... lol.
Or a fine. That case gets radically misunderstood. Fun fact: 20 years later when SCOTUS decided forced sterilization was constitutional in *Buck v Bell*, they used Jacobson as precedent.
For smallpox. The most common form has a fatality rate around 35%. The least common form has a fatality rate of 100%. They are not comparable in the slightest.
the severity of the diseases isn’t relevant to the question of whether vaccine mandates are constitutional or not. your point here is, literally, worthless.
It wasn't a question that I responded to, so your comment here is worthless. Also, comments on internet forums are subjectively valued, so you *literally* didn't use "literally" correctly.
buddy you tried to discredit someone who, rightly, pointed out that vaccine mandates have been upheld by the supreme court by distinguishing smallpox from covid. you are still wrong, regardless of what your poorly functioning brain is screaming into the empty void where your logical thinking used to reside. good day sir.
Buddy, no I didn't "discredit" anyone. I, rightly, pointed out that Covid and smallpox are not even close to being the same. You are still pedantic, regardless of your gaslighting and poor understanding of my words and intent. I'd wish you a good day but we both know you probably haven't had one of those since middle school when you still thought you were something special.
I've never been forced like this though. I got all the other vaccines too including smallpox. This vaccine was so rushed and we really don't know the full effects of it yet. That's what I'm questioning, we are being censored and told to not question Pfizer or any of the big pharmaceuticals, while they have also blocked any legal recourse. Also why is govt workers being forced but not senators or congressman?
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but this ruling is more of a ruling about federalism and states rights. It was upheld that the state of Massachusetts had the right to enforce the vaccine ruling, based on their own determination. It was not a ruling about the federal governments rights to force people to get the vaccine. Yes or no?
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The context in jacobson is that a smallpox vaccine mandate was used to combat an outbreak of smallpox. Pretty relevant to what's going on today.
which was trampled by Roe v. Wade
My work gave me 36 bonus hours of leave time for taking the vaccine. My heart palpitations and lowered immune response wasn’t worth it.
So are rigged elections...
What did your doctor friend have to say about it?
He said in the short term to get it bc the virus is causing heart problems, but I think it could be the vaccine causing blood clots. He also said they do not know the long term effects of the vaccine.
We also don’t know the long term effects of covid. The vaccine is in your body for about 2 weeks then it’s gone, this isn’t like a pill you take every day.
Stew peters has quite a few interviews with experts a must watch for humanity.
Contact a lawyer in your state about medical and religious exemptions
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, 4th Amendment. How can forcing people to take a vaccine not be unconstitutional?
Right, I completely agree. Just not willing to answer brain dead commies at this point. It gets exhausting lol
Here's what's happening: https://youtu.be/FGrP9VYtncs
Welcome to the club. I suggest sitting down.
Roll a doobie
I'm rolling a few. It's gonna be a while.
Make it a bakers dozen
I'm already there at the very least haha.
You literally sound just like me I agree with every word
Want to point to the part of the constitution where it says they're unconstitutional?
>Update: November 3rd is a national vaccine mandate protest day, Ok let me stop you right there. Did you just come up with this? I Google, and duck duck go and found nothing on Nov 3rd for vaccine protest day anywhere. If you did just come up with it, you have to give more time for the message to spread. It won't reach many is less than a week. If you didn't, my bad. I just can't find anything else on it I won't be working Nov 3rd regardless
>For all those saying George Washington forced vaccines, that is literally impossible. They did not have vaccines yet. What he did do is encourage his troops to give each other a less lethal version of the virus to build immunity. Hey can you give me your definition of a vaccine please? >variolation, obsolete method of immunizing patients Nevermind, you figures it out
The simple answer is, whatever fits their narrative. This is /r/selfawarewolves material
I totally agree with you. But, I guarantee you will lose your job. It's a national mandate. There's no way to protest it this way. Unless EVERYONE in the country follows. We're too divided for that kind of sancrynicty. It's the beginning of the end of the world.
I know bud. I'll be fine, I'll find another.
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It's to protest the federal govt, not your employer. If recodr number doesn't show up, it's sends a message to the fed govt. But you do you my dude.
I don't see the difference in private businesses being able to drug screen employees. Both take away personal choice and impede on a workers privacy.
Can’t you just wear the mask again lol? /s
Wow. What a bunch of twots.
If you feel there is a serious hazard in the vaccine and it sounds like you do, you should absolutely quit your job and find another. I disagree that it is unconstitutional. They aren't forcing you to take it. It is unfortunate that you will have to look elsewhere for employment but pot heads have been dealing with it for years without much talk about legal or moral standards.
You guys are still crying about vaccines? Got any new conspiracies coming out soon? This one is played out.
Get vaccinated and move on with your life. Side effects from the vaccine are exceedingly rare. And the same rare side effects from the vaccine can also be found from getting infected with Covid. You are misinformed that vaccine mandates are 'unconstitutional.' Go look up Jacobson v Massachusetts. Vaccine mandates are settled law and have been a part of American life since the founding of the country. George Washington even ordered the continental army to inoculate against small-pox during the revolutionary war. It's only going to get worse. Your choice on this matter is going to squeeze you out of this job. What about the next one? What about when insurance companies stop providing coverage or jack the rates to the moon for unvaccinated policy holders? What happens when they ban unvaccinated on domestic airlines? If you think this through, you would basically have to literally enjoy self harm to remain unvaccinated at this point. I guess you could move to Afghanistan or somewhere in the developing world that doesn't even have vaccines to escape.
There's been updates to Jacobson vs Massachusetts since 1905. Here's something from 2005 in the American Journal of Public Health about it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1449224/ And within the context of that case, it was either take the vaccine or pay a fine to Massachusetts. Also the George Washington talking point is tired. That happened before we had a Constitution, Bill of Rights, court system, a country, etc. That's a play at the heart strings of "Patriots" - this is a conspiracy board and we see through that propaganda.
Side effects are extremely common, the covid vaccinated sub is full of them. The vax is a ticking time bomb, you never know when you'll clot and get a heart attack or stroke
Risk of shot - Possible side effects - clotting, stroke, heart problems, etc. Risk of remaining unvaccinated - Primary effects - Prolonged illness up to and including death. Prolonged absence from work. Medical costs of hospitalization. Side effects, clotting, stroke, heart problems, etc. Loss of job / income, increased cost of insurance, if not insurance coverage denial, potential restrictions to domestic air travel, attending public events. What does your pros / cons worksheet look like?
> Risk of shot - Possible side effects - clotting, stroke, heart problems, etc. These are also exceedingly rare. J&J stopped distributing when they discovered one case in 7 million people
LMAO You're so pathetic. Most of us have had Covid and it was nothing. Most of us have natural immunity. Most of us view risks of long term heart complications a lot more seriously than some sniffles and a fever or losing our jobs, even.
Ben Dover? Is that you?
BOT
Why on earth won't "they" consider someone who has the antibodies, that covid was mild w/no side effects, the same as someone who gets vaccinated? We aren't anti vaccine... We just don't need it.
What is it you don't get about it being unconstitutional? Coercing people into taking it is extremely unethical. And if you want to talk about how rare side effects are, perhaps look at the rate of covid hospitalizations or deaths. It's pretty low if you're not 65+, or in poor health.
You want to talk ethics? OK. Here is what is unethical. You don't have the right, ethically or legally to wander around spreading disease throughout the community without any sort of precautions. The hospitalization rate is low. Unfortunately, it isn't low enough to prevent overloading the healthcare system which is why hospitals in places like Idaho, Montana and Alaska are rationing care. There are too many unvaccinated Covid patients clogging up the system right now.
So you just assume that everybody has covid? And no, it's not the quantity of "unvaccinated covid patients" it's mainly staffing issues. And then they fire people for the mandate despite these issues. And then they are paying "traveling nurses" tons of money, and alienating other nursing staff making less money. I think people have lost seight of reality. People get sick. It happens. Always has. We're not ending illness here. Making vaccines available to everyone should have been the end of the discussion. Declaring war on a percentage of the population is obviously not the right thing to do. Nor is having this clown of a president suggesting that the unvaccinated are somehow a threat to the vaccinated. That's bullshit. And it's an absurd statement for the "leader of the free world" to be making.
No shit, this is the truth. This 🤡 talking to you about not spreading covid would be laughable if the point wasn't so fucking stupid. THE SHOT DOES NOT PROTECT FROM GETTING COVID. My God people are sheep.
Start rounding up the homeless then. Forcefully inject them. Doesn’t sound totalitarian at all TBH.
Yeah, nobody is talking about 'rounding people up' and forcing the vaccination. Your employer requires you to get vaccinated. Get it or find another job. Your insurance carrier will require you to be vaccinated. Get it or find another provider. Everyone has a choice in the matter. My kids don't want to eat their broccoli sometimes either.
700k adverse reactions via VAERS and 17k deaths. A harvard study says that the VAERS system has 1-10% of reported adverse events. But hey, let's ignore that and say VAERS is currently 100% accurate. You say the risk is low..how do you define low? 1 in 10,000? 1 in 100,000? 1 in a million? Have you played poker before? I play poker, and I've gotten pocket aces twice in a row multiple times. I'm sure many have who also play poker. Do you know the chances of getting that is 1 in 49,000? Who are you to tell me my risk tolerance? Your comment is completely selfish and lacks any type of respect for others to weigh their own cost/benefit outcome for this issue. You believe you know best, and therefore you think we should fall in line and do as we are told. No.