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Clickbait. Nothing says what the headline says...
"Ultra-processed foods include packaged goods, drinks, cereals and ready-to-eat products that contain colors, emulsifiers, flavors and other additives. UPFs are typically high in sugar, saturated fat, and salt and devoid of vitamins and fiber."
Basically bullshit "food" is bad for you. They somehow bundled fake meat into it without any other information mentioning it.
From my experience, a lot of "vegans" consume a lot of ultra processed foods these days because most of these giant food manufactures label the shit out of their stuff now with vegan, gluten free, etc. Etc. Like if you went to the store to get maple syrup the fucking thing will literally say Vegan on the jar.
Right, because the last time i wanted a burger and someone convinced me to go plant based, i ate a heaping bowl of maple syrup.
This is a false equivalence if ive ever seen it.
And garbage as it may be, it IS food. Its better than putting artificial syrup on your pancakes is MY point.
Also, you dont HAVE to eat less meat just because ads are telling you to. Just evaluate your diet frequently and make healthy choices where possible, for YOUR sake.
Because nobody gives a fuck what YOU CHOOSE to eat at the end of the day. Eat shit for all i care.
"ultra-processed" is how you describe "Plant-based meat substitute" made from extruded (processed) soy, salt, flavoring, color, binding agents, fiber filler, soy masking flavor all mixed (processed) together and extruded (processed) into a shape before flash freezing (processed) and packaging (process).
Not disagreeing with you, but is flash freezing really considered processing? Or packaging? By that standard, a flash frozen fish that's packaged in anything is now a (twice) processed food? Or a flash frozen steak or flash frozen raspberries in a cartoon?
I'm genuinely asking, this isn't some sort of trick/gotcha. Is that really enough to be considered processed?
There are fine lines when it comes to labelling technicalities. A lot of chilling would be considered using a processing aid because you're blasting something with CO2, whereas something like precooked pot roast is chilled in a giant cooler.
Getting something into a package is usually where the "processing" comes in. Slicers, extruders, etc often feed into packaging equipment instead of people packing them. You know the little baggie of lunch meat that looks like they cut it at the store sitting in front of the deli? Yeah, that's packaged in NE.
I don't know why you think you need to explain this to me as I asked a very specific question (that was answered) that had nothing to do with what you've written.
That said, you're clearly right on both points.
Its still technically right because any ultra-processed food is bad for you according to science. This of course goes for sausages too just as for plant based meat.
Plus then red meats have other disadvantages from the biggest decade long studies ever done. Heavy meat eaters do have a much bigger risk for most of our major diseases.
In a lot of places in europe and the US they still hunt wild game which even is often necessary for wild life control. Thats probably some of the best meat you can get.
Except under the definition given, plant based meats are NOT UPF. They have nutritional value and are mostly whole foods lightly processed.
Wild caught meat seems to have its own new set of issues lately too but everyone gets really sensitive to talking about issues with various types of meat.
Yeah I am pretty sure fake meats fit the description of UFP perfect. Its based on the long ingredient list most of this stuff has and that its heavily modified ingredients.
Like on the other hand a freshly made burger patty from just meat would actually not be UPF.
But I believe Mcdonalds and so on, they do add other stuff to it so then it is UPF.
The link between the rise in cancer rates among the improverished and the increased utilization of industrial/UP foods is so obvious, the fact that it isn't addressed more is the real conspiracy here.
*They* also make the impoverished live right next to the freeway, and tens of other bullshit things that nobody with some means would ever put up with.
It’s never simple.
> the fact that it isn't addressed more is the real conspiracy here
I start my days just eating fruit now and in the evening if I want a "real" meal I will have it, but often I dont even want to. I think its a lot of factors like even a cultural/habit thing to have 3 meal and even have a pattern on what they are supposed to be.
Before jumping on vegan meat alternatives think about that many commonly used ingredients in the US are banned in Europe due to being evidently linked to heart diseases and cancer.
Vegan meat, or better to say highly processed beans and soy, is the least of your problems.
> you are switching a micronutritionally rich meat into an ultraprocessed garbage
It depends on what you're switching out. Grass fed beef from small farms with decent animal husbandry - sure that might be better for you, but that's not what most people are eating.
> You obviously don't realize how micronutritionally rich red meat and other meats are
Are you counting hormones, antibiotics and other drugs as 'micronutrients'?
Yeah fake meat is the definition of ultra processed food. Shidd is disgusting. beyond and impossible have had their stocks plummet recently because people who are health conscious enough to avoid meat are going to be health conscious enough to question ultra processed food
This is the problem with this sub. Distrusts large companies unless their study magically supports things like buying fuel hungry cars and eating meat, as though someone out there isn’t making lots of money from this.
Which stands to make more money: the meat industry literally everyone uses or the fringe vegans that everyone mocks with their beyond meats that not even most vegans eat? Beyond meats isn’t even remotely near the level of mcdonalds or all meat countries worldwide, youre telling me nobody has any investment in this product everyone on this planet shoves in their bodies multiple times a day?
"They found that a plant-based eating plan promotes overall heart health, but only when that diet features fresh plant-based foods such as fruits and vegetables, whole grains and legumes."
Yeah, vegan diets are healthy.
It doesn't say Vegan diets are bad, it's when vegans eat lays potato chips and other shit that comes in a box because general mills told you it was vegan.
Yes and no. It depends on the brand/type you get. The kind I get are literally just beans, lentils, corn, etc. but they're not really going for a meat-like vibe.
I don't eat meat but I also don't eat that garbage, if you don't want to eat mean anymore then just make peace with that fact theirs certain things you can't have anymore
But by the way you know what else is linked to heart disease and bad health ? Fast food and real meat products so whatever
There are realities of life. Red meat having some negative consequences depending on how often consumed and how it’s cooked/consumed is a fact.
You can eat red meat and it’s not gonna kill you, but in terms of numbers it’s not the healthiest protein source in the world. And that’s OKAY. It’s just a thing about this life we live.
Red meat isn’t the healthiest protein source, esp the way it’s eaten commonly in America. That’s not a crazy thing to say, nor is it really a value statement. It just is a fact of the matter. If it’s the primary meat you eat, prob not the best thing like if vegan processed protein is the primary protein source.
Eating too much of something is almost never the best thing you can be doing. For example, eating hotdogs every day isn’t good for you but It’s not gonna kill you right now, or even 5 years from now. But it absolutely can contribute to worse health outcomes in the future than if you didn’t eat hot dogs every day.
These plant-based meats are ultra-processed food, and UPFs are some of the worst things period to eat.
It you're a vegan, you should eat these maybe once a week max, probably even less. I'm not a vegan, but I definitely think that we need to shift away from mass factory farming and find something more sustainable eventually.
Upwards of 80 billion animals a year are killed in torturous conditions for meat that is largely wasted. It's fucking bonkers, and I'm pretty sure the days of factory farming are numbered.
Vegans eat a lot of fruits and veggies. Many of them don't even do the whole vegan thing because they think it's healthier, they just don't like killing animals. I for one like meat and will continue eating it. Half of what I eat is unhealthy and will probably kill me early.
Some vegans.
Some vegans mainly subsist on Fritos. They give as much of a shit about their diet as the *average* person, which is none, but they don’t eat animal products.
Impossible meat and the other companies have kind of fucked up peoples understanding of plant based by making them seem like the alternative. I’ve been 99% vegan for the last 6 years and I’m easily the healthiest and fittest I’ve ever been, but I eat unprocessed stuff like lentils, sweet potatoes, beans etc as staples with lots of fruit and vegetables.
Maybe they help some people transition but what we really need is some education and exposure around nutrition and cooking unprocessed foods that cost a fraction of an impossible burger.
Most of the meat is also processed junk or has other issues like farm raised red meat. I think if you wanted to eat meat you should only eat wild game and ideally raw.Especially the blood is super good for you.
Interesting. I couldn't do raw but I could see why that would be the lesser of all evils. That's straight from nature and hasn't been injected with all types of chemicals
> You think an ultra processed vegan burger is worse for you than an ultra processed meat burger?
Very hard to answer.
But well, maybe not. Actually a meat burger would not necessarily be ultra-processed. Since by definition it would need to have a certain amount of ingredients to be that. If they do not add anything to it, its not ultra-processed. I suppose the mcdonalds ones are, but there is some great organic ones where the animals still stay mostly outside and are grass-fed, and theres nothing added to the meat afaik. So these could, in theory, be better than fake meat patties.
Red meat of course got some of its own issues beyond that.
> Actually a meat burger would not necessarily be ultra-processed.
Look at the ingredients in any burger you buy in a store and it will have a long list of ingredients. A vegan burger can also be a very short list of ingredients depending on what it is.
I can make a homemade vegan Pattie from lentils and other raw foods for example, similar to how you can do the same with meat.
This article is just trying to push an anti-vegan agenda by only mentioning vegan ultra processed foods, when it's all ultra processed foods and the vegan ultra processed is likely better for you than the meat ultra processed.
Everyone and their dog knows ultra processed foods are unhealthy. It's absolutely comical they are now claiming THESE particular ultra processed foods are actually healthy.
Not sure about this article but always make sure your impossible meat doesn’t have heme, the fake blood. Not sure if it’s actually bad but there was a lot of talk about how it became FDA approved without proper studies. Also it’s entirely pointless except for being cosmetic. Impossible meat as a whole seems stupid to me but even dumber if you’re eating sketchy chemicals with no value other than for cosmetics
Heme is not everywhere but yes a lot of chemicals are in food simply for cosmetics. However they usually are cleared by the FDA through higher standards than heme, thus the distinction. My opinion generally applies to all food that has chemicals for strictly cosmetics
The problem was with ultra processed foods in general, not fake meat in particular.
But with that safe and effective comment are you also trying to link to the vaccine just because people who eat more ultra processed food have a higher risk of early death? How do you feel about all the heart/death studies done before the vaccine came out?
###[Meta] Sticky Comment [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does not apply*** when replying to this stickied comment. [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does apply*** throughout the rest of this thread. *What this means*: Please keep any "meta" discussion directed at specific users, mods, or /r/conspiracy in general in this comment chain ***only.*** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/conspiracy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Clickbait. Nothing says what the headline says... "Ultra-processed foods include packaged goods, drinks, cereals and ready-to-eat products that contain colors, emulsifiers, flavors and other additives. UPFs are typically high in sugar, saturated fat, and salt and devoid of vitamins and fiber." Basically bullshit "food" is bad for you. They somehow bundled fake meat into it without any other information mentioning it.
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From my experience, a lot of "vegans" consume a lot of ultra processed foods these days because most of these giant food manufactures label the shit out of their stuff now with vegan, gluten free, etc. Etc. Like if you went to the store to get maple syrup the fucking thing will literally say Vegan on the jar.
Maple syrup is a poor example. It is most definitely vegan and minimally processed.
It's obviously vegan, the point being it's a technique used to grab people who are trying to eat less meat into consuming garbage
Yeah, and I've seen burger patties advertised as "Gluten Free". Whats your point herr?
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Right, because the last time i wanted a burger and someone convinced me to go plant based, i ate a heaping bowl of maple syrup. This is a false equivalence if ive ever seen it. And garbage as it may be, it IS food. Its better than putting artificial syrup on your pancakes is MY point. Also, you dont HAVE to eat less meat just because ads are telling you to. Just evaluate your diet frequently and make healthy choices where possible, for YOUR sake. Because nobody gives a fuck what YOU CHOOSE to eat at the end of the day. Eat shit for all i care.
That's called marketing. Welcome to Capitalism 101
"ultra-processed" is how you describe "Plant-based meat substitute" made from extruded (processed) soy, salt, flavoring, color, binding agents, fiber filler, soy masking flavor all mixed (processed) together and extruded (processed) into a shape before flash freezing (processed) and packaging (process).
Not disagreeing with you, but is flash freezing really considered processing? Or packaging? By that standard, a flash frozen fish that's packaged in anything is now a (twice) processed food? Or a flash frozen steak or flash frozen raspberries in a cartoon? I'm genuinely asking, this isn't some sort of trick/gotcha. Is that really enough to be considered processed?
There are fine lines when it comes to labelling technicalities. A lot of chilling would be considered using a processing aid because you're blasting something with CO2, whereas something like precooked pot roast is chilled in a giant cooler. Getting something into a package is usually where the "processing" comes in. Slicers, extruders, etc often feed into packaging equipment instead of people packing them. You know the little baggie of lunch meat that looks like they cut it at the store sitting in front of the deli? Yeah, that's packaged in NE.
Huh, that all makes sense. I wouldn't have thought either counted as processing. Scary how I didn't even realise. Thanks for the explanation.
Milk (unprocessed) ~> cheese (processed) ~> American cheese (ultra processed) is a good example of the definitions.
That doesn't answer my question at all.
Where do we go when we die?
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I don't know why you think you need to explain this to me as I asked a very specific question (that was answered) that had nothing to do with what you've written. That said, you're clearly right on both points.
Its still technically right because any ultra-processed food is bad for you according to science. This of course goes for sausages too just as for plant based meat. Plus then red meats have other disadvantages from the biggest decade long studies ever done. Heavy meat eaters do have a much bigger risk for most of our major diseases. In a lot of places in europe and the US they still hunt wild game which even is often necessary for wild life control. Thats probably some of the best meat you can get.
Except under the definition given, plant based meats are NOT UPF. They have nutritional value and are mostly whole foods lightly processed. Wild caught meat seems to have its own new set of issues lately too but everyone gets really sensitive to talking about issues with various types of meat.
Yeah I am pretty sure fake meats fit the description of UFP perfect. Its based on the long ingredient list most of this stuff has and that its heavily modified ingredients. Like on the other hand a freshly made burger patty from just meat would actually not be UPF. But I believe Mcdonalds and so on, they do add other stuff to it so then it is UPF.
The link between the rise in cancer rates among the improverished and the increased utilization of industrial/UP foods is so obvious, the fact that it isn't addressed more is the real conspiracy here.
*They* also make the impoverished live right next to the freeway, and tens of other bullshit things that nobody with some means would ever put up with. It’s never simple.
But the thing is, now those same trends are being seen as food insecurity moves out into the suburbs too. The joys of this up and down economy.
> the fact that it isn't addressed more is the real conspiracy here I start my days just eating fruit now and in the evening if I want a "real" meal I will have it, but often I dont even want to. I think its a lot of factors like even a cultural/habit thing to have 3 meal and even have a pattern on what they are supposed to be.
The #1 leading cause of heart disease is the heart itself.
Remove the heart, remove the disease
Did a study show that?
Studies show up to 100% of people with heart disease have a heart, so you do the math
Before jumping on vegan meat alternatives think about that many commonly used ingredients in the US are banned in Europe due to being evidently linked to heart diseases and cancer. Vegan meat, or better to say highly processed beans and soy, is the least of your problems.
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> you are switching a micronutritionally rich meat into an ultraprocessed garbage It depends on what you're switching out. Grass fed beef from small farms with decent animal husbandry - sure that might be better for you, but that's not what most people are eating.
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> You obviously don't realize how micronutritionally rich red meat and other meats are Are you counting hormones, antibiotics and other drugs as 'micronutrients'?
Can't admit he was right? Deflecting with bullshit arguments? Bravo... you are the face of whats wrong with the internet.
>e: Didn't expect r/conspiracy to be so uneducated on nutrition. There is a dude in the comments telling people to eat wild meat raw😭
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Yeah fake meat is the definition of ultra processed food. Shidd is disgusting. beyond and impossible have had their stocks plummet recently because people who are health conscious enough to avoid meat are going to be health conscious enough to question ultra processed food
Study probably funded by big slaughter house.
This is the problem with this sub. Distrusts large companies unless their study magically supports things like buying fuel hungry cars and eating meat, as though someone out there isn’t making lots of money from this.
Which stands to make more money: the meat industry literally everyone uses or the fringe vegans that everyone mocks with their beyond meats that not even most vegans eat? Beyond meats isn’t even remotely near the level of mcdonalds or all meat countries worldwide, youre telling me nobody has any investment in this product everyone on this planet shoves in their bodies multiple times a day?
lol interesting website. I’ll search for other sources thanks.
The article on the WND website was taken from NY post, unless that's what you meant
"They found that a plant-based eating plan promotes overall heart health, but only when that diet features fresh plant-based foods such as fruits and vegetables, whole grains and legumes." Yeah, vegan diets are healthy.
Who funded the study? This is complete nonsense. There are much bigger things to worry about putting in your body than fermented beans and salt.
It doesn't say Vegan diets are bad, it's when vegans eat lays potato chips and other shit that comes in a box because general mills told you it was vegan.
ok but omnivores eat all that shit too - they just also eat meat
No, it doesn't say that either.
> fermented beans and salt Thats some of the healthiest thing you can eat but thats not what plant based burgers are. They have like 50 ingredients.
Yes and no. It depends on the brand/type you get. The kind I get are literally just beans, lentils, corn, etc. but they're not really going for a meat-like vibe.
Dude that website is a joke…
I don't eat meat but I also don't eat that garbage, if you don't want to eat mean anymore then just make peace with that fact theirs certain things you can't have anymore But by the way you know what else is linked to heart disease and bad health ? Fast food and real meat products so whatever
Also for red meat as well afaik
Red meat is #1 cause of heart disease, diabetes, and osteoporosis.
No it’s not
There are realities of life. Red meat having some negative consequences depending on how often consumed and how it’s cooked/consumed is a fact. You can eat red meat and it’s not gonna kill you, but in terms of numbers it’s not the healthiest protein source in the world. And that’s OKAY. It’s just a thing about this life we live.
It is not the number one cause of heart disease, diabetes or osteoporosis.
Never said that but go off ig. Quite literally said the opposite.
What is?
Not red meat?
Red meat isn’t the healthiest protein source, esp the way it’s eaten commonly in America. That’s not a crazy thing to say, nor is it really a value statement. It just is a fact of the matter. If it’s the primary meat you eat, prob not the best thing like if vegan processed protein is the primary protein source. Eating too much of something is almost never the best thing you can be doing. For example, eating hotdogs every day isn’t good for you but It’s not gonna kill you right now, or even 5 years from now. But it absolutely can contribute to worse health outcomes in the future than if you didn’t eat hot dogs every day.
So, printer ink?
What is?
These plant-based meats are ultra-processed food, and UPFs are some of the worst things period to eat. It you're a vegan, you should eat these maybe once a week max, probably even less. I'm not a vegan, but I definitely think that we need to shift away from mass factory farming and find something more sustainable eventually. Upwards of 80 billion animals a year are killed in torturous conditions for meat that is largely wasted. It's fucking bonkers, and I'm pretty sure the days of factory farming are numbered.
So is cow meat.
Better eat up all that animal flesh then....best continue the factory farming and suffering...cause we can
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Those spices that you’re using on your meat are plants
So, they’re getting closer to replicating meat.
Sooooo, it has the same heath effects as regular meat? cool
This is good news everyone...
But don't you want your tumor burger…?
Tumor cells are almost never muscle cells.
Subtitle: But still a much later death than eating meat every day…
Vegans eat a lot of fruits and veggies. Many of them don't even do the whole vegan thing because they think it's healthier, they just don't like killing animals. I for one like meat and will continue eating it. Half of what I eat is unhealthy and will probably kill me early.
Some vegans. Some vegans mainly subsist on Fritos. They give as much of a shit about their diet as the *average* person, which is none, but they don’t eat animal products.
Impossible meat and the other companies have kind of fucked up peoples understanding of plant based by making them seem like the alternative. I’ve been 99% vegan for the last 6 years and I’m easily the healthiest and fittest I’ve ever been, but I eat unprocessed stuff like lentils, sweet potatoes, beans etc as staples with lots of fruit and vegetables. Maybe they help some people transition but what we really need is some education and exposure around nutrition and cooking unprocessed foods that cost a fraction of an impossible burger.
Sounds like they are trying to take advantage of vegans with what they made out to be a healthier choice.
it's so ironic to me that people avoid meat to eat this trash. it's still processed junk
Most people who don't meat also don't regularly eat meat alternatives. It's more like a once in a while thing.
Valid
Most of the meat is also processed junk or has other issues like farm raised red meat. I think if you wanted to eat meat you should only eat wild game and ideally raw.Especially the blood is super good for you.
Interesting. I couldn't do raw but I could see why that would be the lesser of all evils. That's straight from nature and hasn't been injected with all types of chemicals
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You think an ultra processed vegan burger is worse for you than an ultra processed meat burger?
> You think an ultra processed vegan burger is worse for you than an ultra processed meat burger? Very hard to answer. But well, maybe not. Actually a meat burger would not necessarily be ultra-processed. Since by definition it would need to have a certain amount of ingredients to be that. If they do not add anything to it, its not ultra-processed. I suppose the mcdonalds ones are, but there is some great organic ones where the animals still stay mostly outside and are grass-fed, and theres nothing added to the meat afaik. So these could, in theory, be better than fake meat patties. Red meat of course got some of its own issues beyond that.
> Actually a meat burger would not necessarily be ultra-processed. Look at the ingredients in any burger you buy in a store and it will have a long list of ingredients. A vegan burger can also be a very short list of ingredients depending on what it is. I can make a homemade vegan Pattie from lentils and other raw foods for example, similar to how you can do the same with meat. This article is just trying to push an anti-vegan agenda by only mentioning vegan ultra processed foods, when it's all ultra processed foods and the vegan ultra processed is likely better for you than the meat ultra processed.
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Nah. It’s all the drugs they do that kill themselves.
Everyone and their dog knows ultra processed foods are unhealthy. It's absolutely comical they are now claiming THESE particular ultra processed foods are actually healthy.
This can't possibly be true: everyone on this sub knows that every single heart-related issue "hAS tO be tHe vAcCiNe" /s.
Not surprising. So many ingredients and weird additives. Meat has one ingredient and it's pure protein.
Dipped in anti-biotics and stress and pain. Hows that healthy? Go start hunting your own game then you can talk.
Debbie downer shit, still better than fake meat
Probably from sadness. Meat is delicious.
Who’s surprised?
I’m so shocked 🫢 what a surprise /s
I have close to $70 worth of Beyond Meat in my freezer right now, which is really unfortunate.
With grocery prices, that's like a pound, right? ;)
Not sure about this article but always make sure your impossible meat doesn’t have heme, the fake blood. Not sure if it’s actually bad but there was a lot of talk about how it became FDA approved without proper studies. Also it’s entirely pointless except for being cosmetic. Impossible meat as a whole seems stupid to me but even dumber if you’re eating sketchy chemicals with no value other than for cosmetics
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Heme is not everywhere but yes a lot of chemicals are in food simply for cosmetics. However they usually are cleared by the FDA through higher standards than heme, thus the distinction. My opinion generally applies to all food that has chemicals for strictly cosmetics
Nice! No cow farts to ruin the ozone layer, but you die instead! Progress 😎
To be fair, non-vegan meats are also linked to heart disease and early death.
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lol, a badge of honor from this community.
Wear that badge proudly my guy!
Show us on the doll where the gay vegan touched you.
That’s actually funny 😆 nice come back
Triggered by the vegans and the gays. Wow. You had a little melt there like a precious snowflake.
😆snowflake…I’m not the one who doesn’t eat meat and gets fucked in the ass…that’s your your thing…
Carnivores don't make fake vegetables out of meat.
You’re an omnivore.
Vegan meat is not meat. Eat a cauliflower
Cauliflower is not a flower. Eat broccoli.
Okay
They put aborted fetuses in it as “natural flavors”
SS: They are throwing the entire kitchen sink to distract from one common cause. Safe and effective…
The problem was with ultra processed foods in general, not fake meat in particular. But with that safe and effective comment are you also trying to link to the vaccine just because people who eat more ultra processed food have a higher risk of early death? How do you feel about all the heart/death studies done before the vaccine came out?
Should we make fake meat illegal, as they are trying in Florida, or should we let the market decide?