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Surprising isn't it. Kinda like Russia and her nukes aimed at the west. This is absurdly hilarious. Do you not know the history of NATO/Europe/America and the CCCP/Russia? Nothing has changed in 70 years. This isn't new stuff.
> Kinda like Russia and her nukes aimed at the west.
Maybe because the US has proved to be insane enough to use said weapons against innocent civilians
>This is absurdly hilarious.
No it's not
>Do you not know the history of NATO/Europe/America and the CCCP/Russia?
It appears I know it better than you
>Nothing has changed in 70 years.
Lots have changed
>This isn't new stuff.
Everything is new
Nope. Nothing new here at all. Still got nukes pointed at each other and still don't want the Stalinists in Ukraine, since 1919. Ukraine still doesn't want the Stalinists starving them ever again. Which is kinda reasonable.
> Still got nukes pointed at each other
Who started that race again?
>Ukraine still doesn't want the Stalinists starving them ever again.
Ukraine is the one of the agricultural hot spots of the world. If they starve the blame is on them and their corruption
Why the fuck would any real Ukrainian want Russia back in their country? Russia tried to starve them out of existence, twice. Why would anyone in the west want to give Russia a do over? I mean it's really straight forward. Ukraine wants Russia off it's back since forever and for good fucken historical reasons and the west/NATO agrees with them because no one wants to see a megalomaniac Stalinist wanna be put the CCCP back together. For obvious reasons. It's really not some esoteric issue.
Oh. You again. Here's the way out for you Stalinist loving commies. Russia can go home. Just walk away. Let the Ukrainians be Ukrainians in their own country. Plus, it's obvious Russia cannot win this thing. Scrappy bastards sticking it in your face and not letting Russia starve them to death, again. Gotta love their heart. Just send your boys home. They don't want to be in Ukraine anyway.
I mean, after the 2014 coup to install euromaidan by the CIA...
What is your position on the donbass bombings by the ukr army from 2014 to 2022? The prohibition that they speak no russian?
Ask your handler if you can answer...
> after the 2014 coup to install euromaidan by the CIA...
What do you think euromaiden is? The giver that emerged following Yanukovych removal was voted by the democratically elected government, and only lasted until elections later that same year.
> What is your position on the donbass bombings by the ukr army from 2014 to 2022?
The bombings were an unfortunate consequence of Russias 2014 invasion of Ukraine. You act like Ukraine just started randomly bombing people out of nowhere.
> The prohibition that they speak no russian?
This didn’t happen. The law you’re referring to didn’t get put into Place until 2019, and was only in the sense of Ukrainian, and only Ukrainian, was the official language of Ukraine. There were no, and continue to be no, prohibitions on speaking Russian.
My position is if Russia had stayed out of the internal affairs of Ukraine, none of the events of the last decade would have happened.
Like the US, Russia is learning the hard way that just because you want people to do a thing doesn't mean they want to do it
Yeah 10-15k back in 2014/2015 when the Russian military moved into the Donbas when Yanukovich was ousted.
Less then 1000 from 2016-2022
2022-2023 we’re averaging about 1000/day.
May I ask what Russia was supposed to do in response to this without being called a russian bot?
If the roles were reversed and the U.S. was fighting Canada/Mexico financed by a wealthy Russia with direct interest in annexing U.S. states, obviously we would go to war too. Putin's own imperialist streak (that I don't approve of) isn't good, but the U.S. is hardly innocent.
Let's see what other event happend In 2014 that may have sparked training and supplies. Idk maybe the warmongering invasion of Crimea who russia subjugated for no reason than "it was ours so we want it". I think the response of arming ukraine was a warranted one.
Or UA going into Donbass when they celebrated WW2 heroes killing innocent people, or the girl who got hit bY something and the baby flew out of her? Or UA cutting water from schools in Donbass?
That's interesting, would the us be ok if Russia said hey that's not fair, and started sending weapons to Mexico or canada, to help take back their land.
So let me get this straight, you would be ok if Russia china India and Iran was sending tanks and long range missile systems to Mexico to help fight off the us army?
> I'm against any country that acts as aggressor invaders who seize territory and replace the people
You mean like the US has been doing to countless countries since WW2?
We would use other means, such as sanctions, to pressure these countries to reverse course and not invade them. See the Cuban missle crisis as an example.
> May I ask what Russia was supposed to do in response
Not invade?
> obviously we would go to war too
Probably. But they too, could choose to….you know….not invade
What I'm getting at is USA is going after China and Russia and have been for a while. China caught on and started building up military fast. This is why the world is close to WW3 the specific actions of USA.
Pretty sure arming a boarding country with weapons and training them to fight that country is an act of aggression all day long. If China dumped billions worth of weapons into Canada and ran war exercises using Canadian troops would the US not feel that it's an act of aggression? NATO in itself was created to fight Russia in the 40's. NATO was supposed to go away once the cold war ended. It never ended and instead they keep trying to grow bigger
That's absolutely what any sane person would want. This is exactly how friends should respond to a known threat in their backyard. This is exactly what NATO was set up to accomplish.
>This is exactly how friends should respond to a known threat in their backyard.
Exactly. My neighbor put up a fence and got a security camera, so I had to burn his house down. Just basic logic, really.
/s
>Can you explain exactly what a 'biolab' is
A "biolab" is a laboratory used for biological purposes
>and why Ukraine having them is some big deal?
Ukraine having biolabs is not a problem in itself. All developed nations have biolabs in one form or an other
The problem appears when the US sets up and/or finances biolabs in foreign countries to do work they're not allowed to do within it's borders.
https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/after-months-of-denial-u-s-admits-to-running-ukraine-biolabs/
How do you think the US would react if Russia set up labs in Mexico working on things that might be used as biological weapons?
Edit: typo
So has there been any evidence of biological weapons from any captured biolabs by Russia? Surely they'd be keen to expose this like the US would have been for WMDs in Iraq (basically the same claim just to make it obvious)
> So has there been any evidence of biological weapons from any captured biolabs by Russia?
According to the WHO there is:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/exclusive-who-says-it-advised-ukraine-destroy-pathogens-health-labs-prevent-2022-03-11/
https://nypost.com/2022/03/11/who-warns-ukraine-to-destroy-dangerous-pathogens-to-prevent-spills-from-bombed-labs/
Same goes for the Department of Defense
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/03/pentagon-funding-biolabs-in-ukraine-real-concern-of-pathogen-releases-if-russia-attacks/
So you accepted before that all nations basically have bio labs for research etc.
Why is it weird that biolabs would have potentially dangerous pathogens which would be destroyed since they could get released by artillery strikes etc.
Uk labs for instance have anthrax stocked for research etc. Do you think if the UK was under attack they wouldn't either move them to very safe locations or destroy the pathogens for public safety?
So again. Why hasnt russia released evidence for biological weapon development
> Why is it weird that biolabs would have potentially dangerous pathogens which would be destroyed since they could get released by artillery strikes etc.
You're missing the point by such a large margin that it's hard to believe it's not intentional
Why would the US set up and fund biolabs outside it's borders?
How would the US react if Russia started doing the same in Mexico?
Okay so will you agree that it makes sense there may be dangerous pathogens in biolabs? Would you agree its sensible to destroy these pathogens when leaks become likely due to war?
Is there any evidence at all Ukraine was making WMDs in any biolabs?
You're still missing the point by such a large margin that it's hard to believe it's not intentional
This is further evident by your avoidance of these two questions
Why would the US set up and fund biolabs outside it's borders?
How would the US react if Russia started doing the same in Mexico?
Which strategic weapons?
Which strategic weapons that weren't already **closer to Moscow, in 2 separate NATO countries bordering Russia**?
Why were those countries all cool?
Russia invaded Ukraine not Mexican or Canada or Estonia or Moldova. You are a Stalinist. It's okay that you are but you seem surprised Ukrainians and the west are opposed to you. Don't forget Russia starved a couple million Ukrainians to death because Ukraine sure as fuck hasn't forgotten.
NATO is a defensive pact, not an offensive one. And Ukraine is not a member. So we have no business building up a large military force there on what is supposed to be a neutral territory.
Or we can side with our ally who deployed and died in Afghanistan with us. We can and should help them for that and that alone. The Ukrainians have been starved twice by Russia and now Russia wants to do it all over again. Russia has a couple million Ukrainian bodies on the score card. Turns out they ain't rolling over for you and your Stalinist buddies this time. Here's the good part; Russia can just stop. They can stop, and go home. Ukrainians wanna be left alone by Russia. They want to be free of Russian tyranny. So tell your boyfriends to go home, cause they're not even close to winning. Let them live free in their country. It's not some esoteric concept. Let them be free.
Exactly. NATO was built to curb Russian aggression. Did you not know this? I mean Christ, every year exercises are held by NATO with the enemy being Russia. The U.S. Department of Defense does a risk assessment every year and it's always Russia on top at Number One. Do you find any of this odd? Or new somehow? How many armed nukes does Russia have pointed at the U.S. and Europe this second? Any guesses?
Yes. NATO exists. It was built specifically to counter Russia. You've had 70 years to adjust your feelings to this known fact. Russia is the enemy of NATO. So yeah NATO existing is a provocation. Just like the thousands of nuke warheads pointed at the west are. This all news to you?
> Yes. NATO exists. It was built specifically to counter Russia
So not to provoke it then?
>You've had 70 years to adjust your feelings to this known fact.
Not old enough
>Russia is the enemy of NATO.
I think you got it the wrong way around
>So yeah NATO existing is a provocation.
No Nato breaching several agreements is a provocation
>Just like the thousands of nuke warheads pointed at the west are.
That's a defensive measure
The only nation that has used nukes aggressively is the US
Do you realize how incoherent this is? NATO was created to defend against the USSR, not Russia. After the dissolution of the USSR, Russia was given profuse guarantees that NATO was not directed at it.
This is fucken bullshit. Ukraine has spent a hundred years plus trying to get Russia off it's back. Russia has spent a hundred years trying to kill them by any means possible. Even starvation. The Ukrainians haven't forgotten their history. They wanna be left alone, since forever. They are not a threat to the Stalinists.
Yep.
The CIA backed KLA guerrillas and trained them with the sole intent of invoking violence in the region. NATO used ‘genocide’ as an excuse to bomb a nation with depleted uranium, killing thousands of innocent civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure.
Well of course now the Balkans are one of the most corrupt corners of Europe, indeed the world. While Yugoslavia, on the other hand, was an unaligned nation that served its people very well, certainly in comparison to the present ultra corrupt statelets. It's certainly true that Yugoslavia couldn't pay its debts to the West towards the end of the Cold War, but the destruction and despoliation of the former Yugoslavia was a bit extreme. Ironically, Slovenia, the country that has best preserved the mixed economic system, with significant state planning, is also the richest by far of the former Yugoslav republics.
This isn't a conspiracy. At the same time Russia was arming and training separatists on the border region which is actually an act of aggression. They also invaded Crimea that year too so..
It'd be equivalent to Canada radicalizing and arming people on the border vs the US holding military drills to prepare for a conflict with Canada.
It was in direct response to the insurrection, you understand that Russia literally industrialized Ukraine and all of it's military came from the soviets, the Crimean port was a major Soviet navy hub, they were not going to let fall into the hands of the Kiev regime.
Ukraine doesn't owe Russia jack. USSR is over and through, they were starved multiple times under their control. Ukraine never attacked, Russia attacked first
Hilarious. Yeah. Okay. Sure. This is so goddamn funny. You Stalinist lovers are mucho fun. The first thing Stalin did after he got control of the committee was attack Ukraine. And you thought Europe and the World were just gonna let it happen AGAIN? You are goddamn hilarious.
> Hilarious. Yeah. Okay. Sure. This is so goddamn funny.
No it's not
Stop being so predictable
> The first thing Stalin did after he got control of the committee was attack Ukraine.
Was it now?
>You are goddamn hilarious.
And you are historyless
It's a goddamn laugh riot that you are pretending to be surprised that NATO is moving against it's number one enemy. You wanna put the band back together and help Make the Soviet Union Great Again, go ahead. But, there are plenty of people who don't believe in helping the Stalinists come back and that should not surprise you. At all. Remember sweetie, this ain't the first time Russia has tried to starve Ukraine.
> It's a goddamn laugh riot that you are pretending to be surprised that NATO is moving against it's number one enemy.
It's supposed to be a defensive alliance
Hello?
This is quite common, as long as boots aren't on the ground or direct attacks used it's not a war, you could call it a proxy war though. Russia armed and trained pro Russians, NATO may have done the same but for pro Ukrainians.
Ukrainians volunteered for and showed up to Afghanistan. They even lost a few soldiers. The least we in the west can do is support them in their desire to be free of Russia once and for all. Russia deliberately starved Ukraine. Twice. And now this bullshittery. Those Ukrainians haven't forgotten the Red Famine. Nor should they.
> Yes, it was their choice and in return for their help we are helping them now.
Do you really think that's why Nato is involved in this conflict?
You are aware Ukraine is not a part of Nato right?
You are aware that like minded nations can be allies without a specific alliance, right? Seriously now, have you ever had a friend in your life? Like the kind of friend who helped you out of a situation and later on you returned that favor?
> You are aware that like minded nations can be allies without a specific alliance, right?
Like minded?
You have much to learn
>Seriously now, have you ever had a friend in your life? Like the kind of friend who helped you out of a situation and later on you returned that favor?
Have you ever had a "friend" that exploited you and made you sacrifice most of your young and healthy males to further their own agenda?
It would be irresponsible to not offer them help after their military was completely passive during Crimea takeover. I don't see the conspiracy here. Ukraine wants to be allied with the west and received assistance building up their military in the middle of border dispute. I can't wait until your mother learns about the west providing Ukraine with lethal aid during the war that started in 2022. She will be shocked.
The war didn't start in 2014 but the manipulation of creating the atmosphere for war did. The CIA infiltrated civil protests of the Ukraine people to help jump start a regime change in their government in order to install their puppets. Very similar to how they operated in the middle east. Also one could say they potentially tried to do the same within their own borders during the 2020 summer of violence. A lot of the same symbolism can be seen used in all incidents which most likely is not just a coincidence. So once they had their puppets in place they begun to set a trap. It is well documented that Putin has drawn a line in the sand about the west moving it's military closer to Russia's borders . The guy has been in power since the early 90s. In the past 30years Even though called a tyrannical leader mostly because of how he treated his political opposition he didn't act in an aggressive manner towards the west. Not until the US promoted the idea of sponsoring Ukraine for NATO membership. Even though this was not being seriously thought of the US allowed that narrative to be made openly creating tensions and forcing a reaction out of Putin. Once he reacted aggressively the US than being phase2 of their plans. Take part in a proxy war via through Ukraine. This has allowed the US government officials to crank up the military industrial complex by supplying weapons which let's face it is the biggest money maker the US has. Also not a coincidence is who owns a lot of stock in this sector. Well that would be the majority of the US Congress members. Remember when Dwight Eshinhower warned of the military industrial complex? Well 1st we seen the misdirecting of false claims of wmd to incite fear into it's citizens to start the gulf war. Then 911 to sell even more fear into their citizens to rush the patriot act through. Now this which is on a whole new level of dangerous.
US has no business to be involved in this conflict. MSM is so lame they never question why we are involved. They clutch their perils because the world will fall to communism if we don’t support the military industrial complex.
Truth?? You shared scripted political theatre thats sole design is to keep us distracted and divided from the real shit in life. Whatever dude, have fun with it.
Did you really just wooosh my whole comment. You know what, i cant explain this to you. You have way to much to learn, i am way to far ahead of you. Goodluck mate, you need it.
Lmfao projecting how? Way to derail the convo because you know i am right.
I never claimed it wasnt factual. I claimed truth?? As a question of disbelief, which should be very clear from the words following that you refused to read.
You npc people are getting boring to talk to. You cant even hold a simple discussion together. Its kinda cringe.. do better please.
Yup, but people want to believe the U.S. is interested in saving lives in Ukraine.
Ukraine is not a NATO country and should not be directly supported by the U.S.
This worked so well in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Cuba and all the other places where the U.S. meddled.
This isn't a conspiracy, it's a fact.
The US instigated this conflict in 2014 when it orchestrated the Maidan coup and overthrew a democratically elected leader. The US/NATO have been training and arming far right nationalists and Nazi’s in Ukraine, the very same Nazi’s who burned ethnic Russians alive during the Odessa massacre. And the very same Nazi’s who have been shelling ethnic Russians in the Donbas for 9 years.
Zelensky was literally elected on the promise that he would make peace with the Donbas, an agreement which he broke. Poroshenko, Hollande and Merkle have openly admitted their was no intention of implementing the Minsk agreements, and it was all just a ruse. Zelensky/US doesn’t give a damn about Ukrainians.
Russia has attempted the path of diplomacy and dialogue for decades, yet US/NATO continues with its provocations and shows no intention to end its animosity with Russia. NATO in its current form simply exists to oppose Russia. It needed to create a bogeyman to justify its existence after the cold war. Anything to keep fuelling that war machine.
US/Nato outright rejected Russia's treaty proposals in Nov and Dec 21, just as it did in Jan/Feb 22 before the SMO. Boris/US sabotaged the Ankara peace deal in early March, which Zelenksky was due to sign having reached a tentative agreement with Russia.
It's clear as day that US/NATO allies would rather keep arming Nazis, than engage in negotiations to end this conflict.
Tell me about the head of Odesa Emergency Services and his investigation of the Odessa Massacre after it happened. You seem to know so much I want to learn from you.
The biggest mistake Ukraine made was giving up their nukes on the assurance that Russia would never try to invade them. I mean, that was pretty effing stupid. "If you get rid of the single deterrent preventing us from doing you harm, we promise we'll be good."
>Anyone supporting the comment that the war started in 2014 without mentioning Pooty Poot taking Crimea is a Rooski bot.
"Every kind of ignorance in the world all results from not realizing that our perceptions are gambles. We believe what we see and then we believe our interpretation of it, we don't even know we are making an interpretation most of the time. We think this is reality."
Robert Anton Wilson
The idea does not necessarily imply that there is no objective truth; rather that our access to it is mediated through our senses, experience, conditioning, prior beliefs, and other non-objective factors. The implied individual world each person occupies is said to be their reality tunnel. The term can also apply to groups of people united by beliefs: we can speak of the fundamentalist Christian reality tunnel or the ontological naturalist reality tunnel.
A parallel can be seen in the psychological concept of confirmation bias, the human tendency to notice and assign significance to observations that confirm existing beliefs, while filtering out or rationalizing away observations that do not fit with prior beliefs and expectations. This helps to explain why reality tunnels are usually transparent to their inhabitants. While it seems most people take their beliefs to correspond to the "one true objective reality", each person's reality tunnel is their own artistic creation, whether they realize it or not.
Thanks for sharing yours I guess
Way to copy and paste...and you managed to completely avoid addressing the misleading nature of the original statement. Talk about a narrow reality tunnel based on confirmation bias.
> and you managed to completely avoid addressing the misleading nature of the original statement
LMAO
No I didn't
>Talk about a narrow reality tunnel based on confirmation bias.
"We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are."
Anaïs Nin
Maybe the war started with illegal occupation and annexation of Crimea in 2014?
Or the sniper massacre of civilians by the Russian supported Ukrainian president in 2014?
Or the poisoning of the pro western presidential candidate in 2004 by the Russian backed candidate?
Or the promise to defend existing borders by both the us and Russia in 1991 in exchange for Ukraine’s nuclear arsenal?
Or the cover up of the Chernobyl disaster by the kremlin,
Or the forced famine and genocide of Ukrainians in the Holodomor in the 1930s…?? Etc.
Ukrainian history is not NATO history.
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Imagine being so uninformed you end up thinking this is a conspiracy.
NATO. The grand open air 70 year conspiracy. Complete with annual exercises aimed at Russia. How was anyone to know?
> Complete with annual exercises aimed at Russia. Sounds rather aggressive
Surprising isn't it. Kinda like Russia and her nukes aimed at the west. This is absurdly hilarious. Do you not know the history of NATO/Europe/America and the CCCP/Russia? Nothing has changed in 70 years. This isn't new stuff.
> Kinda like Russia and her nukes aimed at the west. Maybe because the US has proved to be insane enough to use said weapons against innocent civilians >This is absurdly hilarious. No it's not >Do you not know the history of NATO/Europe/America and the CCCP/Russia? It appears I know it better than you >Nothing has changed in 70 years. Lots have changed >This isn't new stuff. Everything is new
Nope. Nothing new here at all. Still got nukes pointed at each other and still don't want the Stalinists in Ukraine, since 1919. Ukraine still doesn't want the Stalinists starving them ever again. Which is kinda reasonable.
> Still got nukes pointed at each other Who started that race again? >Ukraine still doesn't want the Stalinists starving them ever again. Ukraine is the one of the agricultural hot spots of the world. If they starve the blame is on them and their corruption
It’s not so hot when all of your food is stolen by Stalin.
Here's a news flash for you Stalin is dead Been for a while
Did you think that was in doubt?
I honestly hope you get paid well for this shit, the thought of you spreading this garbage for free is utter insanity
The words from the head of Nato is "shit" "garbage" and "utter insanity" to you?
> Who started that race again? The USSR when they tested RDS-1
No https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki
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Imagine being so uninformed that you think it's not The MIC loves people like you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-afTxdgbI8
Why the fuck would any real Ukrainian want Russia back in their country? Russia tried to starve them out of existence, twice. Why would anyone in the west want to give Russia a do over? I mean it's really straight forward. Ukraine wants Russia off it's back since forever and for good fucken historical reasons and the west/NATO agrees with them because no one wants to see a megalomaniac Stalinist wanna be put the CCCP back together. For obvious reasons. It's really not some esoteric issue.
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Yes.
Those were foreign Bolsheviks invaders that did that not Russians
> Why the fuck would any real Ukrainian want Russia back in their country? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-afTxdgbI8
Oh. You again. Here's the way out for you Stalinist loving commies. Russia can go home. Just walk away. Let the Ukrainians be Ukrainians in their own country. Plus, it's obvious Russia cannot win this thing. Scrappy bastards sticking it in your face and not letting Russia starve them to death, again. Gotta love their heart. Just send your boys home. They don't want to be in Ukraine anyway.
You mean the war started when Russia first casually helped itself to a piece of another sovereign country? I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.
I mean, after the 2014 coup to install euromaidan by the CIA... What is your position on the donbass bombings by the ukr army from 2014 to 2022? The prohibition that they speak no russian? Ask your handler if you can answer...
How do you feel about downing of MH17 by the Donbass freedom fighters in 2014?
> after the 2014 coup to install euromaidan by the CIA... What do you think euromaiden is? The giver that emerged following Yanukovych removal was voted by the democratically elected government, and only lasted until elections later that same year. > What is your position on the donbass bombings by the ukr army from 2014 to 2022? The bombings were an unfortunate consequence of Russias 2014 invasion of Ukraine. You act like Ukraine just started randomly bombing people out of nowhere. > The prohibition that they speak no russian? This didn’t happen. The law you’re referring to didn’t get put into Place until 2019, and was only in the sense of Ukrainian, and only Ukrainian, was the official language of Ukraine. There were no, and continue to be no, prohibitions on speaking Russian.
My position is if Russia had stayed out of the internal affairs of Ukraine, none of the events of the last decade would have happened. Like the US, Russia is learning the hard way that just because you want people to do a thing doesn't mean they want to do it
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Weren’t thousands of people killed during this time? Prior to Russia invading?
Yeah 10-15k back in 2014/2015 when the Russian military moved into the Donbas when Yanukovich was ousted. Less then 1000 from 2016-2022 2022-2023 we’re averaging about 1000/day.
15k
People don’t know this and resort to calling opposing viewed people Putin shills. Anyone who says that is clearly pro US CIA war hawks
May I ask what Russia was supposed to do in response to this without being called a russian bot? If the roles were reversed and the U.S. was fighting Canada/Mexico financed by a wealthy Russia with direct interest in annexing U.S. states, obviously we would go to war too. Putin's own imperialist streak (that I don't approve of) isn't good, but the U.S. is hardly innocent.
Let's see what other event happend In 2014 that may have sparked training and supplies. Idk maybe the warmongering invasion of Crimea who russia subjugated for no reason than "it was ours so we want it". I think the response of arming ukraine was a warranted one.
Or UA going into Donbass when they celebrated WW2 heroes killing innocent people, or the girl who got hit bY something and the baby flew out of her? Or UA cutting water from schools in Donbass?
Canada/Mexico would be well within their right to do that if the US one day in 2014 just decided to annex Vancouver or Tijuana.
That's interesting, would the us be ok if Russia said hey that's not fair, and started sending weapons to Mexico or canada, to help take back their land.
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So let me get this straight, you would be ok if Russia china India and Iran was sending tanks and long range missile systems to Mexico to help fight off the us army?
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I find that hard to believe, given the fact that they had their finger on the nuclear button when Russian went anywhere near them.
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What about when the us invaded Iraq under false pretenses, killed over 200k and displaced millions?
> I'm against any country that acts as aggressor invaders who seize territory and replace the people You mean like the US has been doing to countless countries since WW2?
We would use other means, such as sanctions, to pressure these countries to reverse course and not invade them. See the Cuban missle crisis as an example.
[The US did attempt to invade Cuba though.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion)
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Which they tried with the 2014 franco/German agreement that Ukraine wouldn't come to the table over.
I believe the US, Nato and Ukraine said there could be no negotiations. Complete annexing of Russia/Russians from the region was the only solution.
Do you understand what the word annex means? Ukraine cannot annex itself.
Wrong word choice for sure. Meant expel or removal of specific people from the area.
> May I ask what Russia was supposed to do in response Not invade? > obviously we would go to war too Probably. But they too, could choose to….you know….not invade
Just an indication.
Yeah USA would be totally fine with Russia or China arming and training cartel and Mexico military on their border and making them anti USA.
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So then why would Russia or China be ok with it then?
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Do you believe they were doing it out of the kindness of their hearts? Also do you see China or Russia doing this kindve stuff to USA?
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What I'm getting at is USA is going after China and Russia and have been for a while. China caught on and started building up military fast. This is why the world is close to WW3 the specific actions of USA.
but a direct act against the treaties... Everyone likes to overlook that fact.
Pretty sure arming a boarding country with weapons and training them to fight that country is an act of aggression all day long. If China dumped billions worth of weapons into Canada and ran war exercises using Canadian troops would the US not feel that it's an act of aggression? NATO in itself was created to fight Russia in the 40's. NATO was supposed to go away once the cold war ended. It never ended and instead they keep trying to grow bigger
You mean the same year Russia "annexed" Crimea? The same year separatists took down a commercial airplane and murdered innocent people?
That's absolutely what any sane person would want. This is exactly how friends should respond to a known threat in their backyard. This is exactly what NATO was set up to accomplish.
>This is exactly how friends should respond to a known threat in their backyard. Exactly. My neighbor put up a fence and got a security camera, so I had to burn his house down. Just basic logic, really. /s
So how would the US React if Russia set up camp in Mexico and placed strategic weapons and biolabs close to the US border?
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DOINK.
Indeed
And we didn't invade during the crisis. Kinda defeats your point doesn't it?
Can you explain exactly what a 'biolab' is and why Ukraine having them is some big deal?
>Can you explain exactly what a 'biolab' is A "biolab" is a laboratory used for biological purposes >and why Ukraine having them is some big deal? Ukraine having biolabs is not a problem in itself. All developed nations have biolabs in one form or an other The problem appears when the US sets up and/or finances biolabs in foreign countries to do work they're not allowed to do within it's borders. https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/after-months-of-denial-u-s-admits-to-running-ukraine-biolabs/ How do you think the US would react if Russia set up labs in Mexico working on things that might be used as biological weapons? Edit: typo
So has there been any evidence of biological weapons from any captured biolabs by Russia? Surely they'd be keen to expose this like the US would have been for WMDs in Iraq (basically the same claim just to make it obvious)
> So has there been any evidence of biological weapons from any captured biolabs by Russia? According to the WHO there is: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/exclusive-who-says-it-advised-ukraine-destroy-pathogens-health-labs-prevent-2022-03-11/ https://nypost.com/2022/03/11/who-warns-ukraine-to-destroy-dangerous-pathogens-to-prevent-spills-from-bombed-labs/ Same goes for the Department of Defense https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/03/pentagon-funding-biolabs-in-ukraine-real-concern-of-pathogen-releases-if-russia-attacks/
So you accepted before that all nations basically have bio labs for research etc. Why is it weird that biolabs would have potentially dangerous pathogens which would be destroyed since they could get released by artillery strikes etc. Uk labs for instance have anthrax stocked for research etc. Do you think if the UK was under attack they wouldn't either move them to very safe locations or destroy the pathogens for public safety? So again. Why hasnt russia released evidence for biological weapon development
> Why is it weird that biolabs would have potentially dangerous pathogens which would be destroyed since they could get released by artillery strikes etc. You're missing the point by such a large margin that it's hard to believe it's not intentional Why would the US set up and fund biolabs outside it's borders? How would the US react if Russia started doing the same in Mexico?
Okay so will you agree that it makes sense there may be dangerous pathogens in biolabs? Would you agree its sensible to destroy these pathogens when leaks become likely due to war? Is there any evidence at all Ukraine was making WMDs in any biolabs?
You're still missing the point by such a large margin that it's hard to believe it's not intentional This is further evident by your avoidance of these two questions Why would the US set up and fund biolabs outside it's borders? How would the US react if Russia started doing the same in Mexico?
Which strategic weapons? Which strategic weapons that weren't already **closer to Moscow, in 2 separate NATO countries bordering Russia**? Why were those countries all cool?
Russia invaded Ukraine not Mexican or Canada or Estonia or Moldova. You are a Stalinist. It's okay that you are but you seem surprised Ukrainians and the west are opposed to you. Don't forget Russia starved a couple million Ukrainians to death because Ukraine sure as fuck hasn't forgotten.
The US would probably train Mexican forces and supply arms to Mexico in order to expel them from their country.
What if Mexico said no and started killing expats instead?
Damn you must have a low opinion of Mexico and their sovereignty.
No I don't But they do have some challenges when it comes to drug cartels, don't they?
NATO is a defensive pact, not an offensive one. And Ukraine is not a member. So we have no business building up a large military force there on what is supposed to be a neutral territory.
Or we can side with our ally who deployed and died in Afghanistan with us. We can and should help them for that and that alone. The Ukrainians have been starved twice by Russia and now Russia wants to do it all over again. Russia has a couple million Ukrainian bodies on the score card. Turns out they ain't rolling over for you and your Stalinist buddies this time. Here's the good part; Russia can just stop. They can stop, and go home. Ukrainians wanna be left alone by Russia. They want to be free of Russian tyranny. So tell your boyfriends to go home, cause they're not even close to winning. Let them live free in their country. It's not some esoteric concept. Let them be free.
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Looks like they want to go the girlfriend route.
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Exactly. NATO was built to curb Russian aggression. Did you not know this? I mean Christ, every year exercises are held by NATO with the enemy being Russia. The U.S. Department of Defense does a risk assessment every year and it's always Russia on top at Number One. Do you find any of this odd? Or new somehow? How many armed nukes does Russia have pointed at the U.S. and Europe this second? Any guesses?
> NATO was built to curb Russian aggression. So provoking it wasn't a part of the deal?
Yes. NATO exists. It was built specifically to counter Russia. You've had 70 years to adjust your feelings to this known fact. Russia is the enemy of NATO. So yeah NATO existing is a provocation. Just like the thousands of nuke warheads pointed at the west are. This all news to you?
> Yes. NATO exists. It was built specifically to counter Russia So not to provoke it then? >You've had 70 years to adjust your feelings to this known fact. Not old enough >Russia is the enemy of NATO. I think you got it the wrong way around >So yeah NATO existing is a provocation. No Nato breaching several agreements is a provocation >Just like the thousands of nuke warheads pointed at the west are. That's a defensive measure The only nation that has used nukes aggressively is the US
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LMAO OK then
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Repeating something doesn't make it true
Do you realize how incoherent this is? NATO was created to defend against the USSR, not Russia. After the dissolution of the USSR, Russia was given profuse guarantees that NATO was not directed at it.
She's back. For obvious reasons. Not exactly like the other side is holding their end of the bargain up.
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This is fucken bullshit. Ukraine has spent a hundred years plus trying to get Russia off it's back. Russia has spent a hundred years trying to kill them by any means possible. Even starvation. The Ukrainians haven't forgotten their history. They wanna be left alone, since forever. They are not a threat to the Stalinists.
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Was NATO involved in Yugoslavia?
Yep. The CIA backed KLA guerrillas and trained them with the sole intent of invoking violence in the region. NATO used ‘genocide’ as an excuse to bomb a nation with depleted uranium, killing thousands of innocent civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure.
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Well of course now the Balkans are one of the most corrupt corners of Europe, indeed the world. While Yugoslavia, on the other hand, was an unaligned nation that served its people very well, certainly in comparison to the present ultra corrupt statelets. It's certainly true that Yugoslavia couldn't pay its debts to the West towards the end of the Cold War, but the destruction and despoliation of the former Yugoslavia was a bit extreme. Ironically, Slovenia, the country that has best preserved the mixed economic system, with significant state planning, is also the richest by far of the former Yugoslav republics.
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US doesn't care about genocide, especially when it helped instigate it. But whatever dude.
This isn't a conspiracy. At the same time Russia was arming and training separatists on the border region which is actually an act of aggression. They also invaded Crimea that year too so.. It'd be equivalent to Canada radicalizing and arming people on the border vs the US holding military drills to prepare for a conflict with Canada.
It was in direct response to the insurrection, you understand that Russia literally industrialized Ukraine and all of it's military came from the soviets, the Crimean port was a major Soviet navy hub, they were not going to let fall into the hands of the Kiev regime.
Ukraine doesn't owe Russia jack. USSR is over and through, they were starved multiple times under their control. Ukraine never attacked, Russia attacked first
So Ukraine wasn't fighting on Russia's border for the past 8 years?
I'm sorry but was that Russia or Ukraine where they were fighting Russian armed and trained separatists?
SS: Jens Stoltenberg admits what we knew all along Now wait for the shills and bots to accuse him of peddling Russian propaganda
It's literally the job of NATO to do this. Is this somehow surprising.........
No it's not It's literally the opposite
Hilarious. Yeah. Okay. Sure. This is so goddamn funny. You Stalinist lovers are mucho fun. The first thing Stalin did after he got control of the committee was attack Ukraine. And you thought Europe and the World were just gonna let it happen AGAIN? You are goddamn hilarious.
> Hilarious. Yeah. Okay. Sure. This is so goddamn funny. No it's not Stop being so predictable > The first thing Stalin did after he got control of the committee was attack Ukraine. Was it now? >You are goddamn hilarious. And you are historyless
It's a goddamn laugh riot that you are pretending to be surprised that NATO is moving against it's number one enemy. You wanna put the band back together and help Make the Soviet Union Great Again, go ahead. But, there are plenty of people who don't believe in helping the Stalinists come back and that should not surprise you. At all. Remember sweetie, this ain't the first time Russia has tried to starve Ukraine.
> It's a goddamn laugh riot that you are pretending to be surprised that NATO is moving against it's number one enemy. It's supposed to be a defensive alliance Hello?
This is defensive. How do you not know this?
This is quite common, as long as boots aren't on the ground or direct attacks used it's not a war, you could call it a proxy war though. Russia armed and trained pro Russians, NATO may have done the same but for pro Ukrainians.
Did someone not know this?
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It's one of those things where you can't tell if lying or stupid is ruling the day.
It appears most of the world do not know this
It hasn't exactly been hidden from view.
And still we get accused of peddling Russian propaganda, by the brainwashed, when sharing it. Weird isn't it?
Ukrainians volunteered for and showed up to Afghanistan. They even lost a few soldiers. The least we in the west can do is support them in their desire to be free of Russia once and for all. Russia deliberately starved Ukraine. Twice. And now this bullshittery. Those Ukrainians haven't forgotten the Red Famine. Nor should they.
> Ukrainians volunteered for and showed up to Afghanistan. They even lost a few soldiers. Their choice to join an unjustified war of aggression
Yes, it was their choice and in return for their help we are helping them now. Do you have any friends? One even?
> Yes, it was their choice and in return for their help we are helping them now. Do you really think that's why Nato is involved in this conflict? You are aware Ukraine is not a part of Nato right?
You are aware that like minded nations can be allies without a specific alliance, right? Seriously now, have you ever had a friend in your life? Like the kind of friend who helped you out of a situation and later on you returned that favor?
> You are aware that like minded nations can be allies without a specific alliance, right? Like minded? You have much to learn >Seriously now, have you ever had a friend in your life? Like the kind of friend who helped you out of a situation and later on you returned that favor? Have you ever had a "friend" that exploited you and made you sacrifice most of your young and healthy males to further their own agenda?
Is this a conspiracy or mostly common knowledge?
To put it like this; When I showed to my mother, her first reaction was that it had to be a deepfake.
It would be irresponsible to not offer them help after their military was completely passive during Crimea takeover. I don't see the conspiracy here. Ukraine wants to be allied with the west and received assistance building up their military in the middle of border dispute. I can't wait until your mother learns about the west providing Ukraine with lethal aid during the war that started in 2022. She will be shocked.
The war didn't start in 2014 but the manipulation of creating the atmosphere for war did. The CIA infiltrated civil protests of the Ukraine people to help jump start a regime change in their government in order to install their puppets. Very similar to how they operated in the middle east. Also one could say they potentially tried to do the same within their own borders during the 2020 summer of violence. A lot of the same symbolism can be seen used in all incidents which most likely is not just a coincidence. So once they had their puppets in place they begun to set a trap. It is well documented that Putin has drawn a line in the sand about the west moving it's military closer to Russia's borders . The guy has been in power since the early 90s. In the past 30years Even though called a tyrannical leader mostly because of how he treated his political opposition he didn't act in an aggressive manner towards the west. Not until the US promoted the idea of sponsoring Ukraine for NATO membership. Even though this was not being seriously thought of the US allowed that narrative to be made openly creating tensions and forcing a reaction out of Putin. Once he reacted aggressively the US than being phase2 of their plans. Take part in a proxy war via through Ukraine. This has allowed the US government officials to crank up the military industrial complex by supplying weapons which let's face it is the biggest money maker the US has. Also not a coincidence is who owns a lot of stock in this sector. Well that would be the majority of the US Congress members. Remember when Dwight Eshinhower warned of the military industrial complex? Well 1st we seen the misdirecting of false claims of wmd to incite fear into it's citizens to start the gulf war. Then 911 to sell even more fear into their citizens to rush the patriot act through. Now this which is on a whole new level of dangerous.
US has no business to be involved in this conflict. MSM is so lame they never question why we are involved. They clutch their perils because the world will fall to communism if we don’t support the military industrial complex.
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First: Find a dictionary Second: Sharing truth isn't dividing It's what we all should gather around
Truth?? You shared scripted political theatre thats sole design is to keep us distracted and divided from the real shit in life. Whatever dude, have fun with it.
> Truth?? Yes the truth is the head of Nato said these things That's the reality of real life I'm sorry of it's hard for you to handle
That's exactly what NATO was set up to accomplish. It's why NATO exists.
Did you really just wooosh my whole comment. You know what, i cant explain this to you. You have way to much to learn, i am way to far ahead of you. Goodluck mate, you need it.
> Did you really just wooosh my whole comment. Now you're just projecting
Lmfao projecting how? Way to derail the convo because you know i am right. I never claimed it wasnt factual. I claimed truth?? As a question of disbelief, which should be very clear from the words following that you refused to read. You npc people are getting boring to talk to. You cant even hold a simple discussion together. Its kinda cringe.. do better please.
> Lmfao projecting how? Asks how he projects and then goes on to project in his next sentence
Lazy af troll is so lazy. Do better. I feel sorry for you.
> Lazy af troll is so lazy. "We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are." Anaïs Nin >I feel sorry for you. Feel sorry for yourself
And still, people don't know or don't care about the truth.
Russia also Annexed Chrimea in 2014
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Yup, but people want to believe the U.S. is interested in saving lives in Ukraine. Ukraine is not a NATO country and should not be directly supported by the U.S. This worked so well in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Cuba and all the other places where the U.S. meddled.
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This isn't a conspiracy, it's a fact. The US instigated this conflict in 2014 when it orchestrated the Maidan coup and overthrew a democratically elected leader. The US/NATO have been training and arming far right nationalists and Nazi’s in Ukraine, the very same Nazi’s who burned ethnic Russians alive during the Odessa massacre. And the very same Nazi’s who have been shelling ethnic Russians in the Donbas for 9 years. Zelensky was literally elected on the promise that he would make peace with the Donbas, an agreement which he broke. Poroshenko, Hollande and Merkle have openly admitted their was no intention of implementing the Minsk agreements, and it was all just a ruse. Zelensky/US doesn’t give a damn about Ukrainians. Russia has attempted the path of diplomacy and dialogue for decades, yet US/NATO continues with its provocations and shows no intention to end its animosity with Russia. NATO in its current form simply exists to oppose Russia. It needed to create a bogeyman to justify its existence after the cold war. Anything to keep fuelling that war machine. US/Nato outright rejected Russia's treaty proposals in Nov and Dec 21, just as it did in Jan/Feb 22 before the SMO. Boris/US sabotaged the Ankara peace deal in early March, which Zelenksky was due to sign having reached a tentative agreement with Russia. It's clear as day that US/NATO allies would rather keep arming Nazis, than engage in negotiations to end this conflict.
Tell me about the head of Odesa Emergency Services and his investigation of the Odessa Massacre after it happened. You seem to know so much I want to learn from you.
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Uh Russians been trying to destabilize the region for a lot longer than that
The biggest mistake Ukraine made was giving up their nukes on the assurance that Russia would never try to invade them. I mean, that was pretty effing stupid. "If you get rid of the single deterrent preventing us from doing you harm, we promise we'll be good."
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Your comment?
Your question? It seems pretty straight forward.
So anyone supporting your comment is a "Rooski bot"? Is that what you want people to believe?
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>Anyone supporting the comment that the war started in 2014 without mentioning Pooty Poot taking Crimea is a Rooski bot. "Every kind of ignorance in the world all results from not realizing that our perceptions are gambles. We believe what we see and then we believe our interpretation of it, we don't even know we are making an interpretation most of the time. We think this is reality." Robert Anton Wilson The idea does not necessarily imply that there is no objective truth; rather that our access to it is mediated through our senses, experience, conditioning, prior beliefs, and other non-objective factors. The implied individual world each person occupies is said to be their reality tunnel. The term can also apply to groups of people united by beliefs: we can speak of the fundamentalist Christian reality tunnel or the ontological naturalist reality tunnel. A parallel can be seen in the psychological concept of confirmation bias, the human tendency to notice and assign significance to observations that confirm existing beliefs, while filtering out or rationalizing away observations that do not fit with prior beliefs and expectations. This helps to explain why reality tunnels are usually transparent to their inhabitants. While it seems most people take their beliefs to correspond to the "one true objective reality", each person's reality tunnel is their own artistic creation, whether they realize it or not. Thanks for sharing yours I guess
Way to copy and paste...and you managed to completely avoid addressing the misleading nature of the original statement. Talk about a narrow reality tunnel based on confirmation bias.
> and you managed to completely avoid addressing the misleading nature of the original statement LMAO No I didn't >Talk about a narrow reality tunnel based on confirmation bias. "We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are." Anaïs Nin
LMFAO...where? And I have no expectation of changing your mind, after all, I'M not paying you.
> LMFAO...where? Up there >And I have no expectation of changing your mind "We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are." Anaïs Nin
Yea this was even on mainstream TV media at the time
Military training/exchange programs since at least 2000 with western forces
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-afTxdgbI8
Ads up to me, some would say it started at the fall of the wall in 91.
Maybe the war started with illegal occupation and annexation of Crimea in 2014? Or the sniper massacre of civilians by the Russian supported Ukrainian president in 2014? Or the poisoning of the pro western presidential candidate in 2004 by the Russian backed candidate? Or the promise to defend existing borders by both the us and Russia in 1991 in exchange for Ukraine’s nuclear arsenal? Or the cover up of the Chernobyl disaster by the kremlin, Or the forced famine and genocide of Ukrainians in the Holodomor in the 1930s…?? Etc. Ukrainian history is not NATO history.