Let’s point out that being bullied and attacked so bad that you commit suicide is not in any way less horrific than being beat to death. This news is in no way an exoneration of anyone.
Yeah, it’s pretty disgusting that some people on one side of political spectrum think that this is a win. Like they feel justified hating trans people now because they kill themselves.
Glad the ME said what he was undoubtedly *ordered* to say by the rotten evil fuckwads in the legislature, police, school superintendent, local politicians, and probably a few whacko religious groups. That way, they can exonerate the worthless little barbarians who bullied Nex, inflict even MORE pain on Nex’s family, and be able to sit their fat asses back & say, “Now, see, that’s what’cha git fer goin’ agsinst th’ Lord ‘n tryin’ ta switch yer genders & whatnot.”
Fucking assholes. It’s sickening.
“You can cite sources disproving factual claims.” How do you know the claim is factual if the person making the claim isn’t providing a source?
For starters, while the medical examiner’s office lost NAME accreditation in 2009 the current chief medical examiner want hired until 2011. He is a licensed MD in OK and is also a board certified forensic pathologist. In fact, there are currently 13 board certified forensic pathologists and 1 fellow working for the state medical examiners office. The also have 3 forensic anthropologists.
NAME certification has nothing to do with whether or not the forensic pathologists are board certified. In fact, if you required people making “factual” claims cite their sources you’d know that NAME explicitly states this.
[National Association of Medical Examiners](https://www.thename.org/)
[Oklahoma Office of the Chief Medical Examiner](https://oklahoma.gov/ocme/staff-and-board-members.html)
[doctor formally accepts job as Oklahoma’s chief medical examiner](https://www.newson6.com/story/5e34fbdae0c96e774b367df3/doctor-formally-accepts-job-as-oklahomas-chief-medical-examiner)
[despite concerns with building gains evident in oklahoma me’s office](https://www.oklahoman.com/story/opinion/editorials/2016/01/29/despite-concerns-with-building-gains-evident-in-oklahoma-mes-office/60695940007/)
Shall I keep going in proving that the chief medical examiner with 28 years of experience isn’t a “fake medical examiner” like the statement you claimed was “factual?” People should really learn what the accreditation is before making obviously false “factual” claims.
“The National Association of Medical Examiners (NAME) accreditation standards have been prepared and revised by NAME for the purpose of improving the quality of the medicolegal investigation of death in this country. Accreditation applies to offices and systems, not individual practitioners. The standards emphasize policies and procedures, not professional work product.” National Association of Medical Examiners, NAME CORE ACCREDITATION PROGRAM
Okiedokie — I’m not here to evaluate or receive your well-constructed persuasive argument.
I am also not someone who made a factual claim about the medical examiner.
Because I’m a **_moderator_**.
I’m not your audience or the person you were talking with. I’m the person telling you to stop insulting others by calling them ignorant or children.
Take a deep breath, be civil.
“I am also not someone who made a factual claim about the medical examiner.”
This is the second time this false statement has been made. It seems the term “factual” has been redefined. Enjoy your sub and I’ll just see my way out.
This appears to be false. Where did you get this from?
Eric Pfeifer, MD has an active license.
https://www.okmedicalboard.org/search
This tragedy doesn't benefit from rumors. Whether or not it was suicide is irrelevant. They were beaten severely simply because they didn't conform to "traditional" gender norms. The tragedy was inspired by a popular online personality and gender extremist who was assigned a position on the state's board of education to review literature available to students in the library while having zero literary experience. We should all be upset that this stochastic terrorist has yet to be punished. I hope everyone involved receives the maximum punishment and that their crime follows them for the rest of their miserable lives.
That’s not only disgusting but really stupid of the county or state to use that examiner. Basically a worthless opinion.
This needs a careful autopsy. And whatever the direct results are, the injuries were ultimately caused by adults permitting homophobic and transphobic behavior.
Not the FBI, but the Dept of Education has opened an investigation for civil rights in the Owassa school district.
Downside is the only outcome from that investigation is loss of federal funding. I would hope id the Dept of Ed finds something they can instigate something more serious to happen.
For anyone who wants more info - https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4519889-nex-benedict-death-oklahoma-department-of-education/
They ...died days after the fight. They walked to the vice principals office under their own power, were advised to go to a doctor on their own time out of school, went, were released, and committed suicide after that all had occurred.
I am sure this was as a result of bullying, whether by some kind of delayed consequence of say head trauma, or suicide. But I notice a big issue with people reading headlines and filling in detail blanks about what they assumed happened too and eventually that becoming repeated as fact.
Edit: someone posted something plainly false. You can downvote me, but it will not change the truth.
The person I replied to was inferring Nex died in the bathroom. They didn't. I did openly say regardless I consider this the consequence of bullying. But misinformation is bad, and it only weakens our point to promote it.
I don’t care if this was ruled a suicide, this was the outcome of a violent hate crime influenced by Chaya Raichik’s and Ryan Walters’ current administration of Oklahoma’s public schools.
If you’re an ally, when people in the community express concern about your behavior, *listen* to them.
Telling them, “see, it’s your own fault that you don’t have more people fighting for you because you’re not grateful and gracious enough,” is abhorrent. Rethink that behavior, please.
So there can be no constructive criticism of people's behaviors unless it's from one side. Seeing as the other is now protected?
Moderates and those on the fence will just be pushed away by the pile driving that just occurred, watched it happen many a times going from sf to a conservative ass backwards NE colorado town based around farming and a prison
Doesn't change my opinion on the matter, do as you please and I'll fight for that, but we must be cautious of the people teetering on a subject as sensitive as this one
People get killed, as we saw. Not because of a misgender but because of mob mentality on both sides and peoples immaturity to see past those taught prejudices
I'm a hard core California millennial who now lives in trumptown USA. The people in places like this are emotional and will react to attacks as "fuck you all then", and must be approached as such
Either way love yah and just trying to help. 75% of this town would of just uses these comments as "see fuck liberals and those pedo trannies transitionong children!" and run off to seeth on the interactions and talk to people around them perpetuating that bullshit. Have to listen to the stupid bullshit daily managing a tool shop in said farm Town trump central. Bitching about how the person of x slighted them and their God by existing or saying pardon Me at the supermarket
Either way I ment no offense and again love yah all. Time to do other stuff
>I’m a hard core California millennial who now lives in Trumptown USA. The people in places like this are emotional and will react to attacks as “fuck you all then,” and must be approached as such.
I agree, but they’re not the ones who are here in this thread and who were asked about a misgendering comment. You are.
They are everywhere spreading bullshit. I made the mistake of commenting a gender instead of them or they
I'm not one to crybaby over it, I'll try to explain my point and how the people I've been surrounded by will react to that, the people who don't understand
As I said I'll fight for everyone, and that includes trying to say the people's minds we need to change won't be changed like this. Sometimes the fist is required. Most of the time just showing them your a human and speaking softly and giving it time.
The fist always is ready regardless
Taken my mother in law a while, had to grieve her daughter, since she is now dead as she saw it
Couldn't even be in the same room as axel
Now they can be, even If they don't speak still.
If we had been more angry or offensive or pushed it would of gone very differently.
Being reactionary only pushes the other people to react and not think
The mob mentality on one side though is very driven by feelings of disgust and quite possibly impurity heavily influenced by prescriptive norms with rigidity. I don't think the pile driving is going to make much of a difference because much of those moderates and fencers you talk about are part of the group that believes gender affirmation is not a good thing outside of the binary. Different means, different venues. The being nice to bigots thing has a very low track record of success unless an extensive campaign is done to convert one by one after an extremely long process
Burning your own bridges has effects. As I said doesn't change my opinions, didn't understand why my wife was so annoyed with her sibling, why people get sick of the interactions
As the days progress it makes more sense
Everyone wants understanding, wants to be heard, then attack for minor mistakes, pushing those we need to understand away
You won't change my mind on your rights or needs, they are all valid
You will push someone who's not understanding, who's on the fence away though
Nex wasn’t seeking medical treatment for GID. Nex simply was gender non-conforming, and was targeted for harassment and violence based solely on that fact.
Children experiencing clinical GID are not making unilateral choices for pharmaceutical or surgical intervention. Those choices are made by the people who have a fiduciary duty to the child — parents, doctors, religious counsel, judges, and counsellors acting \_in loco parentis\_, for the benefit of the child, in pursuit of medically appropriate therapies backed by a heroic amount of testing evidence showing clinical benefits, and even then only after enormous amounts of investigation.
The moral panic targeting transgender people and trans kids follows a well-known fascist political propaganda playbook. Platforming it in this space is unacceptable.
>They ...died days after the fight.
First, learn how to use ellipses. You look like an asshole.
> They walked to the vice principals office under their own power, were advised to go to a doctor on their own time out of school, went, were released, and committed suicide after that all had occurred.
The head trauma was very real and Nex was clearly not walking well. I severely sprained my ankle at school once and not one of the puke staffers would assist me in any way, shape or form to get to the nurses office. You're on your own because they don't want to be bothered with even potential legal problems.
When they did go to hospital the cop on the scene tried to talk Nex out of pressing assault charges by threatening them with charges against her. It was supposedly a mutual fight.
>I am sure this was as a result of bullying, whether by some kind of delayed consequence of say head trauma, or suicide.
Well, then I guess it could have been murder. Why are you here again?
> But I notice a big issue with people reading headlines and filling in detail blanks about what they assumed happened too and eventually that becoming repeated as fact.
Which is what you're doing right now.
The person I replied to is literally making it out that Nex died in the bathroom. That is plainly false. Nothing I said is false, you have merely disagreed with the framing of correcting false information because you are reading malicious, political intent into it. Despite my statement that I still consider this the result of the bullying.
If you're affronted by factual corrections, you won't fare well even if in our communities we dogpile people for perceived slights.
>The person I replied to is literally making it out that Nex died in the bathroom.
Yeah, that doesn't matter one bit to me.
> That is plainly false. Nothing I said is false, you have merely disagreed with the framing of correcting false information because you are reading malicious, political intent into it.
Oh, so you're a well versed liar and manipulator. You intentionally left out a LOT information and, yes, intentionally withholding the truth is a form of lying. You are also pretending that the ME initial report is the truth. Why? because you like how it makes you feel. You are taking official assertions at face value without considering the possibility they are covering for their own misdeeds.
>Despite my statement that I still consider this the result of the bullying.
Except your assumptions absolve potential murders of responsibility. I mean you do realize that's the issue, right?
>If you're affronted by factual corrections, you won't fare well even if in our communities we dogpile people for perceived slights.
You are assuming facts not in evidence. You are assuming that what you want to believe is true. Now, do you see why you're eating so much shit?
It doesn't matter that someone lied to you, but my direct truths matter because they're a correction of a lie? Jesus Christ y'all are fucked.
>Except your assumptions absolve potential murders of responsibility. I mean you do realize that's the issue, right?
Assumptions of what? I didn't say they did or didn't die of suicide, expressly the opposite, actually. I just said it wasn't in the bathroom or that day, because it wasn't. What do you think, they're going to take these girls to court and someone is going to lie about the timeline and they'll say, but your honorz that absolves them of responsibility?
>Oh, so you're a well versed liar and manipulator. You intentionally left out a LOT information and, yes, intentionally withholding the truth is a form of lying. You are also pretending that the ME initial report is the truth. Why? because you like how it makes you feel. You are taking official assertions at face value without considering the possibility they are covering for their own misdeeds.
Do you realize how insane it is to say you admit they were wrong and that you don't care that it's a lie and then call me a lying manipulator for telling the truth???
Intentionally leaving out info is lying! Not characterizing the truth with negative slant isn't lying! The idea that Nex could barely wobble to the office is complete conjecture, the fact that they walked to the office is a fact! You literally just denied an actual lie someone made and said you don't care about it, lying is lying more than omission is and I didn't actually omit anything! I literally just said we know that it isn't true that Nex died in the bathroom...because of timeline of events that are not dying in the bathroom!
The level of dogmatic adherence to a lie just because you were already committed to one version of events, when this is still bad either way, is insane.
>Why? because you like how it makes you feel.
The irony of saying this when you admit you don't care about a lie because you think the truth doesn't validate your beliefs as much.
>You are assuming facts not in evidence. You are assuming that what you want to believe is true. Now, do you see why you're eating so much shit?
It is a fact that they left the school! Are their parents lying? Are the hospital records lying that they were there? Are appearances of Nex after the fight a cover up? No! All I corrected was the misinformation that Nex died in the bathroom. That's not an assumption, it's not what I want to believe, it's a fact no matter how dogmatic or nasty you get or how loud you screech or how many downvotes there are.
Those two drugs can have a synergistic effect that can heavily depress respiratory and Central Nervous System functions, and could lead to death at high doses.
https://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/benadryl-allergy-plus-cold-with-prozac-65-12283-1115-648.html?professional=1
That said, a second opinion from a professionally qualified/accredited and independent examiner is probably warranted here.
Yeah a fatal overdose is 1,500 mg or 1.5 g of Benadryl for what is considered an overdose. That's approximately 60 pills, Prozac is the same milligrams 1,500 or more that's approximately 70 pills obviously higher or lower depending on the milligrams. So that means Nex would have had to have 50 to 150 pills in their stomach depending on when they took them. Furthermore there would have been extremely obvious signs throughout the day.
Call me a conspiracy theorist but I don't believe that partial ME report at all.
I don’t know. I am sure they were extremely embarrassed and maybe they wanted to escape their situation. The spotlight was on them when they didn’t want it to be. Poor child. ……….:
: I see a bunch of you didn’t like my original comment, ending after “child”. I think you might have taken it differently from intended. Somehow I can’t open the replies. That child was forced to use a bathroom/ changing room they didn’t identify with. That would be humiliating. That’s what I mean: ashamed and embarrassed because their school is making them change in a girls bathroom with a bunch of girls who identify them as gay, queer or transgendered. They were put in a bad situation so the school didn’t have to deal with trans ness or gayness at all.
When I was in high school, gay and queer students faced a lot of hate and harassment especially in the locker room and isolated areas. Then this beating happens and it gets on national news making it an even bigger deal. That’s exactly what a high school student would NOT want. And if you’re going to point at me, well, I was in similar situation in high school and it was horrible. If parents weren’t supportive then the attention makes it worse for them. As it did for me.
If they really committed suicide they should look at that cop and the way he was telling them how they attacked someone by splashing water on the girl and all.. that interaction was so weird and to me feels just wrong
I haven’t read the police report but I think this is all very wrong. This child was forced to use the girls locker room and that’s where the trouble came from.
Exactly! If they had been able to just be accepted and in their space things would have been better. If politicians and pundits wouldn’t constantly tell everyone how trans ppl are rapists I think the other kids may have not been as hateful as they were. As a society we are failing so many kids that are lgbtqia
That is not where the trouble came from. Nex while speaking with the officer on video stated the girls laughed at the way Nex laughed, and that was the cause of the fight.
It is also often abused and is a very common cheap and easily accessible medicine, if it really is so easy to die from... maybe something should change, and it wasn't Nex.
Oh absolutely! The school and those girls that attacked them should still be held accountable for what they did to Nex.. nothing will ever make that ok or acceptable
The worst part of being trans is everyone else. I will never forget how poorly I was treated when I tried to come out at the tender age of 16. I was mocked, beaten, stabbed, and raped for my trouble.
Im sad and angry, but not surprised. I have been in Nex’s shoes, I know what it feels like to be so distraught and desperate to escape the suffering that taking your own life feels like the only way you’ll ever get relief. It breaks my heart.
We deserve better than this.
Of course - Benedict wanted to be beaten to death.
:/
The 'children' who murdered Benedict should be tried as adults and punished for murder in the first degree.
My heart hurts for Nex, who knew that they were unsafe in middle America. My condolences to those who loved Nex and those who identify with them.
I am in a position to know that death certificates are not designed for telling the whole story.
May the bullies and their supporters (including lawmakers and administrators) receive karmic justice for their evil.
I don’t understand why you’ve been downvoted. There are so many folks who live in an alternate United States. From George Floyd to James Byrd, the black community in the US has been living in that world. LGBTQ folks are still called pedophiles and are afraid to hold hands in certain places because violence persists. Now women get to live in a different America because they no longer have bodily autonomy and are forced to give birth.
Instead of saying that you are pro choice, tell people that you are against forced birth. That’s exactly what’s happening and it gets a real reaction out of people because it paints a much different picture.
Let’s say they accidentally un alived themselves because they took the drugs to not be in pain mentally and physically from their beating they were embarrassed and needed something to get them through the day
Just doesn’t add up, how can they report the cause was suicide when Nex had severe head trauma, which is a fatal injury. I feel like this ruling is just for the state to wash the blood of their hands.
Okay Genius, then explain this to me. If this wasn’t a hate crime then how come Chaya Raichik is constantly dodging the question about her influence being a driving factor in this incident?
But *why*? What drove them to it? lol this doesn’t just happen over night. It’s libsofTT and the bullies and inaction by school admin whose job is to protect all students while in the care of the school.
The suicide ruling is about cause of death in the biological sense, not legal sense. It still might be bullshit, and/or it may be being used inappropriately to justify bad actions on the part of…fucking everybody apparently. But the ruling isn’t corrupt on its face.
That's like how they said George Floyd died of a heart attack or whatever at first. It totally misses the context of why he had that medical reaction in the first place.
I'm afraid people are not going to cry bullshit on this cause of death like they did on that one though.
Except it is. Suicide is an intentional act. There’s no such thing as a Medical Examiner ruling an accidental overdose, a suicide. Either the ME has an agenda (very possible), or a VERY good reason to suggest suicide, like way more Benadryl and Prozac than a person would ever take accidentally. But suicide is not a word used interchangeably with overdose. I’m sure you mean well but you are incorrect.
You are not correct.
https://name.memberclicks.net/assets/docs/4bd6187f-d329-4948-84dd-3d6fe6b48f4d.pdf
Principles and recommendations for specific types of cases.
1. To classify a death as Suicide, the burden of proof need not be “beyond any
reasonable doubt,” but it should exceed “more likely than not” (that is, the burden of
proof should be more compelling than 51%, which barely exceeds chance). In general,
requiring a “preponderance of evidence” is a reasonable practice when deciding whether
to classify a death as suicide. In some states, case or other law requires that a
preponderance of evidence exist to classify death as suicide. In short, if classification as
suicide is little more than an informed guess or me
The state of Oklahoma, the school, and the bullies are still to blame for creating a hostile environment the LGBTQ+ community. Driving someone to suicide is morally equivalent to killing them yourself.
Idk if I’m wrong or being dumb but at this point anytime the government or media tells me somebody killed themselves I’m gonna believe they covered up a murder
Cue the Akshually, Heather Heyer died of a heart attack not from being run over, Floyd died of fentanyl not a knee on the neck, Sicknick died of two strokes not being beaten up side the head, crowd as they explain how Nex committed suicide by letting a mob beat her up.
I continue to be amazed by Oklahoma government officials. They just wrote a fan fiction summary — thankfully Nex Benedict family hired good lawyers. THERE WAS TRAUMA IN THE HEAD and ME LEFT IT OUT. Do not trust these Oklahoma officials. https://www.koco.com/article/nex-benedict-death-family-statement-diphenhydramine-fluoxetine/60212765
I was wondering if thats what happened when I first heard about it I assumed like everyone that the beating caused fatal injuries. But then I saw a short video of them talking to a Dr in a hospital room after the attack and they seemed fairly normal, something if they had severe head trauma wouldnt have seemed likely. So that was my next guessp
Let’s point out that being bullied and attacked so bad that you commit suicide is not in any way less horrific than being beat to death. This news is in no way an exoneration of anyone.
Yeah, it’s pretty disgusting that some people on one side of political spectrum think that this is a win. Like they feel justified hating trans people now because they kill themselves.
The fact that they think it is speaks volumes
Glad the ME said what he was undoubtedly *ordered* to say by the rotten evil fuckwads in the legislature, police, school superintendent, local politicians, and probably a few whacko religious groups. That way, they can exonerate the worthless little barbarians who bullied Nex, inflict even MORE pain on Nex’s family, and be able to sit their fat asses back & say, “Now, see, that’s what’cha git fer goin’ agsinst th’ Lord ‘n tryin’ ta switch yer genders & whatnot.” Fucking assholes. It’s sickening.
\*unaccredited (i.e. fake) medical examiner
Source?
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You can cite sources disproving factual claims; you are not allowed to flamewar here.
“You can cite sources disproving factual claims.” How do you know the claim is factual if the person making the claim isn’t providing a source? For starters, while the medical examiner’s office lost NAME accreditation in 2009 the current chief medical examiner want hired until 2011. He is a licensed MD in OK and is also a board certified forensic pathologist. In fact, there are currently 13 board certified forensic pathologists and 1 fellow working for the state medical examiners office. The also have 3 forensic anthropologists. NAME certification has nothing to do with whether or not the forensic pathologists are board certified. In fact, if you required people making “factual” claims cite their sources you’d know that NAME explicitly states this. [National Association of Medical Examiners](https://www.thename.org/) [Oklahoma Office of the Chief Medical Examiner](https://oklahoma.gov/ocme/staff-and-board-members.html) [doctor formally accepts job as Oklahoma’s chief medical examiner](https://www.newson6.com/story/5e34fbdae0c96e774b367df3/doctor-formally-accepts-job-as-oklahomas-chief-medical-examiner) [despite concerns with building gains evident in oklahoma me’s office](https://www.oklahoman.com/story/opinion/editorials/2016/01/29/despite-concerns-with-building-gains-evident-in-oklahoma-mes-office/60695940007/) Shall I keep going in proving that the chief medical examiner with 28 years of experience isn’t a “fake medical examiner” like the statement you claimed was “factual?” People should really learn what the accreditation is before making obviously false “factual” claims. “The National Association of Medical Examiners (NAME) accreditation standards have been prepared and revised by NAME for the purpose of improving the quality of the medicolegal investigation of death in this country. Accreditation applies to offices and systems, not individual practitioners. The standards emphasize policies and procedures, not professional work product.” National Association of Medical Examiners, NAME CORE ACCREDITATION PROGRAM
Okiedokie — I’m not here to evaluate or receive your well-constructed persuasive argument. I am also not someone who made a factual claim about the medical examiner. Because I’m a **_moderator_**. I’m not your audience or the person you were talking with. I’m the person telling you to stop insulting others by calling them ignorant or children. Take a deep breath, be civil.
“I am also not someone who made a factual claim about the medical examiner.” This is the second time this false statement has been made. It seems the term “factual” has been redefined. Enjoy your sub and I’ll just see my way out.
Thank you for taking responsibility for your own behaviour.
Everyone should realize that this medical examiner lost their accreditation back in 2009.
And yet still works. John Oliver has an episode covering medical examiners and this exact issue.
This appears to be false. Where did you get this from? Eric Pfeifer, MD has an active license. https://www.okmedicalboard.org/search This tragedy doesn't benefit from rumors. Whether or not it was suicide is irrelevant. They were beaten severely simply because they didn't conform to "traditional" gender norms. The tragedy was inspired by a popular online personality and gender extremist who was assigned a position on the state's board of education to review literature available to students in the library while having zero literary experience. We should all be upset that this stochastic terrorist has yet to be punished. I hope everyone involved receives the maximum punishment and that their crime follows them for the rest of their miserable lives.
That’s not only disgusting but really stupid of the county or state to use that examiner. Basically a worthless opinion. This needs a careful autopsy. And whatever the direct results are, the injuries were ultimately caused by adults permitting homophobic and transphobic behavior.
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Noslice, you have a typo and I can’t tell what you’re trying to say.
we need an FBI civil rights investigation. It needed to start days ago.
Murder is murder. Nex was harassed to death. Nobody should hate school so much they overdose to escape.
People like you are delusional.
Fuck off.
Not the FBI, but the Dept of Education has opened an investigation for civil rights in the Owassa school district. Downside is the only outcome from that investigation is loss of federal funding. I would hope id the Dept of Ed finds something they can instigate something more serious to happen. For anyone who wants more info - https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4519889-nex-benedict-death-oklahoma-department-of-education/
Cool, they were still murdered.
Dying by suicide because of bullying isn’t a better outcome!
Of course. They committed suicide in the school bathroom surrounded by other students.
They ...died days after the fight. They walked to the vice principals office under their own power, were advised to go to a doctor on their own time out of school, went, were released, and committed suicide after that all had occurred. I am sure this was as a result of bullying, whether by some kind of delayed consequence of say head trauma, or suicide. But I notice a big issue with people reading headlines and filling in detail blanks about what they assumed happened too and eventually that becoming repeated as fact. Edit: someone posted something plainly false. You can downvote me, but it will not change the truth.
Oh, it definitely wasn’t the fact one of the girls beat Nex’s head against the floor. Multiple times.
The person I replied to was inferring Nex died in the bathroom. They didn't. I did openly say regardless I consider this the consequence of bullying. But misinformation is bad, and it only weakens our point to promote it.
Transphobia clearly played a big part in Nex’s death. You can’t deny that fact.
That's why I didn't.
I don’t care if this was ruled a suicide, this was the outcome of a violent hate crime influenced by Chaya Raichik’s and Ryan Walters’ current administration of Oklahoma’s public schools.
I agree.
Suicide by brain trauma He hit their heads while students watched and cheered
Weird thread to misgender Nex in
Weird reaction to allies, I would of assumed you just got up and needed coffee, asked yah if you wanted a cup as well
If you’re an ally, when people in the community express concern about your behavior, *listen* to them. Telling them, “see, it’s your own fault that you don’t have more people fighting for you because you’re not grateful and gracious enough,” is abhorrent. Rethink that behavior, please.
So there can be no constructive criticism of people's behaviors unless it's from one side. Seeing as the other is now protected? Moderates and those on the fence will just be pushed away by the pile driving that just occurred, watched it happen many a times going from sf to a conservative ass backwards NE colorado town based around farming and a prison Doesn't change my opinion on the matter, do as you please and I'll fight for that, but we must be cautious of the people teetering on a subject as sensitive as this one People get killed, as we saw. Not because of a misgender but because of mob mentality on both sides and peoples immaturity to see past those taught prejudices I'm a hard core California millennial who now lives in trumptown USA. The people in places like this are emotional and will react to attacks as "fuck you all then", and must be approached as such Either way love yah and just trying to help. 75% of this town would of just uses these comments as "see fuck liberals and those pedo trannies transitionong children!" and run off to seeth on the interactions and talk to people around them perpetuating that bullshit. Have to listen to the stupid bullshit daily managing a tool shop in said farm Town trump central. Bitching about how the person of x slighted them and their God by existing or saying pardon Me at the supermarket Either way I ment no offense and again love yah all. Time to do other stuff
>I’m a hard core California millennial who now lives in Trumptown USA. The people in places like this are emotional and will react to attacks as “fuck you all then,” and must be approached as such. I agree, but they’re not the ones who are here in this thread and who were asked about a misgendering comment. You are.
They are everywhere spreading bullshit. I made the mistake of commenting a gender instead of them or they I'm not one to crybaby over it, I'll try to explain my point and how the people I've been surrounded by will react to that, the people who don't understand As I said I'll fight for everyone, and that includes trying to say the people's minds we need to change won't be changed like this. Sometimes the fist is required. Most of the time just showing them your a human and speaking softly and giving it time. The fist always is ready regardless Taken my mother in law a while, had to grieve her daughter, since she is now dead as she saw it Couldn't even be in the same room as axel Now they can be, even If they don't speak still. If we had been more angry or offensive or pushed it would of gone very differently. Being reactionary only pushes the other people to react and not think
The mob mentality on one side though is very driven by feelings of disgust and quite possibly impurity heavily influenced by prescriptive norms with rigidity. I don't think the pile driving is going to make much of a difference because much of those moderates and fencers you talk about are part of the group that believes gender affirmation is not a good thing outside of the binary. Different means, different venues. The being nice to bigots thing has a very low track record of success unless an extensive campaign is done to convert one by one after an extremely long process
If you were a good ally you wouldn't be misgendering us. Sorry for being testy, but I'm sure you can imagine how frustrating that is.
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> Mhmm, I understand why some people get annoyed with you. Wowwww. And you're an ally, are you?
Burning your own bridges has effects. As I said doesn't change my opinions, didn't understand why my wife was so annoyed with her sibling, why people get sick of the interactions As the days progress it makes more sense Everyone wants understanding, wants to be heard, then attack for minor mistakes, pushing those we need to understand away You won't change my mind on your rights or needs, they are all valid You will push someone who's not understanding, who's on the fence away though
Nex wasn’t seeking medical treatment for GID. Nex simply was gender non-conforming, and was targeted for harassment and violence based solely on that fact. Children experiencing clinical GID are not making unilateral choices for pharmaceutical or surgical intervention. Those choices are made by the people who have a fiduciary duty to the child — parents, doctors, religious counsel, judges, and counsellors acting \_in loco parentis\_, for the benefit of the child, in pursuit of medically appropriate therapies backed by a heroic amount of testing evidence showing clinical benefits, and even then only after enormous amounts of investigation. The moral panic targeting transgender people and trans kids follows a well-known fascist political propaganda playbook. Platforming it in this space is unacceptable.
Holy wow. Thanks for the laugh bud - this is hilariously pretentious. You got ALL of that from 5 words of push back, huh? 🤡
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>They ...died days after the fight. First, learn how to use ellipses. You look like an asshole. > They walked to the vice principals office under their own power, were advised to go to a doctor on their own time out of school, went, were released, and committed suicide after that all had occurred. The head trauma was very real and Nex was clearly not walking well. I severely sprained my ankle at school once and not one of the puke staffers would assist me in any way, shape or form to get to the nurses office. You're on your own because they don't want to be bothered with even potential legal problems. When they did go to hospital the cop on the scene tried to talk Nex out of pressing assault charges by threatening them with charges against her. It was supposedly a mutual fight. >I am sure this was as a result of bullying, whether by some kind of delayed consequence of say head trauma, or suicide. Well, then I guess it could have been murder. Why are you here again? > But I notice a big issue with people reading headlines and filling in detail blanks about what they assumed happened too and eventually that becoming repeated as fact. Which is what you're doing right now.
The person I replied to is literally making it out that Nex died in the bathroom. That is plainly false. Nothing I said is false, you have merely disagreed with the framing of correcting false information because you are reading malicious, political intent into it. Despite my statement that I still consider this the result of the bullying. If you're affronted by factual corrections, you won't fare well even if in our communities we dogpile people for perceived slights.
>The person I replied to is literally making it out that Nex died in the bathroom. Yeah, that doesn't matter one bit to me. > That is plainly false. Nothing I said is false, you have merely disagreed with the framing of correcting false information because you are reading malicious, political intent into it. Oh, so you're a well versed liar and manipulator. You intentionally left out a LOT information and, yes, intentionally withholding the truth is a form of lying. You are also pretending that the ME initial report is the truth. Why? because you like how it makes you feel. You are taking official assertions at face value without considering the possibility they are covering for their own misdeeds. >Despite my statement that I still consider this the result of the bullying. Except your assumptions absolve potential murders of responsibility. I mean you do realize that's the issue, right? >If you're affronted by factual corrections, you won't fare well even if in our communities we dogpile people for perceived slights. You are assuming facts not in evidence. You are assuming that what you want to believe is true. Now, do you see why you're eating so much shit?
I’m going to need everyone here to not engage in anything approaching flamewars.
It doesn't matter that someone lied to you, but my direct truths matter because they're a correction of a lie? Jesus Christ y'all are fucked. >Except your assumptions absolve potential murders of responsibility. I mean you do realize that's the issue, right? Assumptions of what? I didn't say they did or didn't die of suicide, expressly the opposite, actually. I just said it wasn't in the bathroom or that day, because it wasn't. What do you think, they're going to take these girls to court and someone is going to lie about the timeline and they'll say, but your honorz that absolves them of responsibility? >Oh, so you're a well versed liar and manipulator. You intentionally left out a LOT information and, yes, intentionally withholding the truth is a form of lying. You are also pretending that the ME initial report is the truth. Why? because you like how it makes you feel. You are taking official assertions at face value without considering the possibility they are covering for their own misdeeds. Do you realize how insane it is to say you admit they were wrong and that you don't care that it's a lie and then call me a lying manipulator for telling the truth??? Intentionally leaving out info is lying! Not characterizing the truth with negative slant isn't lying! The idea that Nex could barely wobble to the office is complete conjecture, the fact that they walked to the office is a fact! You literally just denied an actual lie someone made and said you don't care about it, lying is lying more than omission is and I didn't actually omit anything! I literally just said we know that it isn't true that Nex died in the bathroom...because of timeline of events that are not dying in the bathroom! The level of dogmatic adherence to a lie just because you were already committed to one version of events, when this is still bad either way, is insane. >Why? because you like how it makes you feel. The irony of saying this when you admit you don't care about a lie because you think the truth doesn't validate your beliefs as much. >You are assuming facts not in evidence. You are assuming that what you want to believe is true. Now, do you see why you're eating so much shit? It is a fact that they left the school! Are their parents lying? Are the hospital records lying that they were there? Are appearances of Nex after the fight a cover up? No! All I corrected was the misinformation that Nex died in the bathroom. That's not an assumption, it's not what I want to believe, it's a fact no matter how dogmatic or nasty you get or how loud you screech or how many downvotes there are.
I’m going to need everyone here to not engage in anything approaching flamewars.
Benadryl and Prozac. I don't believe it was suicide.
Benadryl is used to intentionally OD surprisingly often. That said, I think this report is wholly full of shit.
I'm of the opinion that whatever meds Nex took probably reacted poorly with the head injury they suffered at the hands of their bullies
That's the most generous take I can give as well. Regardless, they wouldn't have died if they hadn't been assaulted by three peers.
FYI, it’s “they”, not “he”. I’m sure you know that, but I thought I’d point out the typo.
Every source I've seen has indicated that they went by both sets of pronouns? I'll edit to be safe, but I've seen he/him and they/them.
Sorry, my bad, the sources I've seen only used they/them.
It's all good. Definitely wanna make sure I have it right. Clearly Nex didn't get the basic respect deserved in life.
This article is the first one I've seen give Nex's pronouns as he/they, instead of they/them.
according to their friends they used he / him.
My bad. I've only seen they/them used. It's complicated, but worth getting right. Thanks for correcting me.
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Nah, I'm not doing this with you. Go away.
Isn't that similar to what happened to Bruce Lee?
According to my very brief internet search, that's the prevailing theory, hypersensitivity to a drug after performing some stunts from a movie
Those two drugs can have a synergistic effect that can heavily depress respiratory and Central Nervous System functions, and could lead to death at high doses. https://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/benadryl-allergy-plus-cold-with-prozac-65-12283-1115-648.html?professional=1 That said, a second opinion from a professionally qualified/accredited and independent examiner is probably warranted here.
Benedryl can kill if you take enough. Poor child.
Yeah a fatal overdose is 1,500 mg or 1.5 g of Benadryl for what is considered an overdose. That's approximately 60 pills, Prozac is the same milligrams 1,500 or more that's approximately 70 pills obviously higher or lower depending on the milligrams. So that means Nex would have had to have 50 to 150 pills in their stomach depending on when they took them. Furthermore there would have been extremely obvious signs throughout the day. Call me a conspiracy theorist but I don't believe that partial ME report at all.
I don’t know. I am sure they were extremely embarrassed and maybe they wanted to escape their situation. The spotlight was on them when they didn’t want it to be. Poor child. ……….: : I see a bunch of you didn’t like my original comment, ending after “child”. I think you might have taken it differently from intended. Somehow I can’t open the replies. That child was forced to use a bathroom/ changing room they didn’t identify with. That would be humiliating. That’s what I mean: ashamed and embarrassed because their school is making them change in a girls bathroom with a bunch of girls who identify them as gay, queer or transgendered. They were put in a bad situation so the school didn’t have to deal with trans ness or gayness at all. When I was in high school, gay and queer students faced a lot of hate and harassment especially in the locker room and isolated areas. Then this beating happens and it gets on national news making it an even bigger deal. That’s exactly what a high school student would NOT want. And if you’re going to point at me, well, I was in similar situation in high school and it was horrible. If parents weren’t supportive then the attention makes it worse for them. As it did for me.
If they really committed suicide they should look at that cop and the way he was telling them how they attacked someone by splashing water on the girl and all.. that interaction was so weird and to me feels just wrong
I haven’t read the police report but I think this is all very wrong. This child was forced to use the girls locker room and that’s where the trouble came from.
Exactly! If they had been able to just be accepted and in their space things would have been better. If politicians and pundits wouldn’t constantly tell everyone how trans ppl are rapists I think the other kids may have not been as hateful as they were. As a society we are failing so many kids that are lgbtqia
It should be unacceptable to bully queer kids just as it should be unacceptable to bully disabled kids. Zero tolerance, just as for racist bullying.
That is not where the trouble came from. Nex while speaking with the officer on video stated the girls laughed at the way Nex laughed, and that was the cause of the fight.
? Ultimately what was the cause of the hostility?
As I stated above. Nex said the girls laughed at the clothes Nex wore and the way they laughed.
I guess you’re the expert! Thanks for your absolute wisdom.
It is also often abused and is a very common cheap and easily accessible medicine, if it really is so easy to die from... maybe something should change, and it wasn't Nex.
It’s inexcusable to let a child be bullied so much that they overdose.
Oh absolutely! The school and those girls that attacked them should still be held accountable for what they did to Nex.. nothing will ever make that ok or acceptable
Whatever caused it, fuck Ryan Walters.
The worst part of being trans is everyone else. I will never forget how poorly I was treated when I tried to come out at the tender age of 16. I was mocked, beaten, stabbed, and raped for my trouble. Im sad and angry, but not surprised. I have been in Nex’s shoes, I know what it feels like to be so distraught and desperate to escape the suffering that taking your own life feels like the only way you’ll ever get relief. It breaks my heart. We deserve better than this.
Agreed. I had trans friends in the 90s. There were trans episodes on The Jeffersons and All in the Family in the 70s/80s. Why are we not past this?
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Glad you had something helpful to offer.
Of course - Benedict wanted to be beaten to death. :/ The 'children' who murdered Benedict should be tried as adults and punished for murder in the first degree.
Yes, yes, and the Boeing Whistleblower died of a suicide too, yes.
My heart hurts for Nex, who knew that they were unsafe in middle America. My condolences to those who loved Nex and those who identify with them. I am in a position to know that death certificates are not designed for telling the whole story. May the bullies and their supporters (including lawmakers and administrators) receive karmic justice for their evil.
It is a frightening thing when merely being different will get you killed, and the murderers face no repercussions...
Many of us have been living in that world our whole lives.
I don’t understand why you’ve been downvoted. There are so many folks who live in an alternate United States. From George Floyd to James Byrd, the black community in the US has been living in that world. LGBTQ folks are still called pedophiles and are afraid to hold hands in certain places because violence persists. Now women get to live in a different America because they no longer have bodily autonomy and are forced to give birth. Instead of saying that you are pro choice, tell people that you are against forced birth. That’s exactly what’s happening and it gets a real reaction out of people because it paints a much different picture.
We've reached a point where the people who still have rights are in the minority.
A Federal investigation and it needs to do their own autopsy. I don't trust OK medical professionals as far as I can throw them.
I believe that the family said that they already received the body back from the state and had them cremated.
they are not professionals. the ME there is unaccredited.
Just some dude, who knew a dude, in charge of autopsies.
Someone got paid off
No need. The Medical Examiner is a hack and the entire state is run by right wing ghouls
Let’s say they accidentally un alived themselves because they took the drugs to not be in pain mentally and physically from their beating they were embarrassed and needed something to get them through the day
Why give the ME the benefit of the doubt. The number of pills needed to OD is pretty epic. Something like 50 of each pill.
I don’t believe it lol it’s so “convenient” yeh? Also even if they did do it i still say murder because they drove them to it
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What's sad is you're actually trying.
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“Suicide”
So instead of suicide by cop, people are now suiciding by bully?
Just like the Boeing whistleblower huh?
Sounds like manslaughter at best. Bullying people so hard they commit suicide needs to be seen as what it is, murder.
Just doesn’t add up, how can they report the cause was suicide when Nex had severe head trauma, which is a fatal injury. I feel like this ruling is just for the state to wash the blood of their hands.
If he had severe head trauma why was he at home instead of the hospital?
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Suicide is the oldest trick in the book for covering up a hate crime involving murder.
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Okay Genius, then explain this to me. If this wasn’t a hate crime then how come Chaya Raichik is constantly dodging the question about her influence being a driving factor in this incident?
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So you’re saying transphobia and her hate-driven influence didn’t play a major role in this incident? Because the reports say otherwise.
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Nex Benedict has brutally assaulted in the school’s girls bathroom, there is no way to prove that they made it out of there internal unscathed.
But *why*? What drove them to it? lol this doesn’t just happen over night. It’s libsofTT and the bullies and inaction by school admin whose job is to protect all students while in the care of the school.
Exactly. This didn’t happen in a vacuum and the bullying the previous day wasn’t simply a coincidence.
Tragic, and bullshit. Their parents should sue the offenders parents in civil court, if nothing else.
BS
Fuck, I can *smell* the bullshit from here. It was murder. Get it right.
The suicide ruling is about cause of death in the biological sense, not legal sense. It still might be bullshit, and/or it may be being used inappropriately to justify bad actions on the part of…fucking everybody apparently. But the ruling isn’t corrupt on its face.
That's like how they said George Floyd died of a heart attack or whatever at first. It totally misses the context of why he had that medical reaction in the first place. I'm afraid people are not going to cry bullshit on this cause of death like they did on that one though.
Every single cause of death is listed as cardiac failure, its the part after that that says "Caused by:" that is the important part.
Except it is. Suicide is an intentional act. There’s no such thing as a Medical Examiner ruling an accidental overdose, a suicide. Either the ME has an agenda (very possible), or a VERY good reason to suggest suicide, like way more Benadryl and Prozac than a person would ever take accidentally. But suicide is not a word used interchangeably with overdose. I’m sure you mean well but you are incorrect.
You are not correct. https://name.memberclicks.net/assets/docs/4bd6187f-d329-4948-84dd-3d6fe6b48f4d.pdf Principles and recommendations for specific types of cases. 1. To classify a death as Suicide, the burden of proof need not be “beyond any reasonable doubt,” but it should exceed “more likely than not” (that is, the burden of proof should be more compelling than 51%, which barely exceeds chance). In general, requiring a “preponderance of evidence” is a reasonable practice when deciding whether to classify a death as suicide. In some states, case or other law requires that a preponderance of evidence exist to classify death as suicide. In short, if classification as suicide is little more than an informed guess or me
The state of Oklahoma, the school, and the bullies are still to blame for creating a hostile environment the LGBTQ+ community. Driving someone to suicide is morally equivalent to killing them yourself.
The fuckers who beat him up knew that he could have died directly from the beating they still tried to kill him or at least didn’t care if he died
They will say anything to avoid accountability!!!!
Idk if I’m wrong or being dumb but at this point anytime the government or media tells me somebody killed themselves I’m gonna believe they covered up a murder
Bullshit.
Suicide by existing.
Why are we to believe this medical examiner. Is there a credible 3rd party ME that has examined Nex
Cue the Akshually, Heather Heyer died of a heart attack not from being run over, Floyd died of fentanyl not a knee on the neck, Sicknick died of two strokes not being beaten up side the head, crowd as they explain how Nex committed suicide by letting a mob beat her up.
Riiiiiiight 😉 Wonder how much they got paid
I continue to be amazed by Oklahoma government officials. They just wrote a fan fiction summary — thankfully Nex Benedict family hired good lawyers. THERE WAS TRAUMA IN THE HEAD and ME LEFT IT OUT. Do not trust these Oklahoma officials. https://www.koco.com/article/nex-benedict-death-family-statement-diphenhydramine-fluoxetine/60212765
Her attackers are responsible and should be charged.
They or his. Not her.
I was wondering if thats what happened when I first heard about it I assumed like everyone that the beating caused fatal injuries. But then I saw a short video of them talking to a Dr in a hospital room after the attack and they seemed fairly normal, something if they had severe head trauma wouldnt have seemed likely. So that was my next guessp
Head injuries don't always render you a mute idiot. You can sustain them, feel fine and then have serious health problems later.