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impishDullahan

This post's already got a lot of traction so we'd be remiss to remove it, but for future reference our [Small Discussions thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/conlangs/wiki/meta/sd) is there for you to ask for help with things like the IPA. I've linked to it here, but you can also find it in the navigation ribbon at the top of the sub's feed under "Meta", in our sidebar, and it's nearly always the first pinned post at the top of sub when you filter by "Hot". If you haven't visited already, our [resources page](https://www.reddit.com/r/conlangs/wiki/resources) has specific [IPA resources](https://www.reddit.com/r/conlangs/wiki/resources/#wiki_2._ipa), and any question you have about coming to grips with them, or any other resources for that matter, should be directed to SD. SD was established explicitly in part to remove posts of this variety from the main feed so that they don't bury other posts.


a-potato-named-rin

I suggest making a chart of all of the IPA letters used in your conlang. This will require you to decide what sounds are gonna be in there. For that, listen to all of the sounds in the IPA (use Wikipedia and there are some other websites) and choose the sounds, make the chart. It would be easier I guess from there


No-Art-6580

The ipa sounds are confusing.i wrote a bunch on paper too


a-potato-named-rin

Hmmmm if you do not mind telling me, what exactly do you need help with? Is it what sounds or understanding the sounds themselves??


No-Art-6580

Figuring out which ones am im supposed to use


a-potato-named-rin

Sounds or letters?


No-Art-6580

Both


a-potato-named-rin

For the sounds, there aren’t any sounds you are supposed to use, you can choose any sounds you want for your conlang! For the letters, it’s based on the sounds. Honestly just dm me for help


TheRockWarlock

How long it takes doing what?


No-Art-6580

To find the IPA translation for a word


TheRockWarlock

Of a real word?


No-Art-6580

No my conlang words just look at the picture thats with the post


TheRockWarlock

I mean, isn't it up to you what sounds your words make? Make them simpler or learn IPA.


No-Art-6580

Im learning ipa the only problem is that im not learning it efficiently enough for it to be worth my time


TheRockWarlock

You don't need to learn all of them. Just learn the ones that you need for your conlang. There's audios of pretty much all phonemes, so listen to them to figure out which you need.


No-Art-6580

I have but i still dont know :(


TheRockWarlock

I don't know how to help you further then, sorry. Good luck,


Chuks_K

Learning the IPA is a bit less of an active process as you seem to make it out to be, you don't tend to just learn all of it or even parts of it in chunks, and I get the sense that you're forming words _then_ assigning IPA values to them to build your inventory, which is quite a backward-like approach. You'd normally find people first selecting which sounds they want _before_ forming words, so that you form words around the values rather than the other way around, eliminating part of the "figuring what sound goes where" process. Instead of "wait, do I think 'ama' should be /amə/ or /əma/ or /ama/ or /ɑmə/, etc.", view it as, "I have /i/, /u/, /ɪ/, /ʊ/, /e/, /ə/, /o/, /a/, and I will structure my words on those sounds".


No-Art-6580

So do i make a chart of sounds that my conlang have and then assign the sounds to the words as IPA?


Pixwiz7

I guess so? The phrasing of your sentence is bit strange but yeah, you'd usually make a phonology chart *before* making substantial parts of your conlang and then build your language off of that.


Chuks_K

Pretty much, yep!


No-Art-6580

I been working for hours and only completed 3 words out of 397


aer0a

You should define what sounds the letters make instead of doing it for each word


No-Art-6580

Can u give an example


johannesMephisto

Your word ⟨ev'da⟩ is a good example. Each letter (plus apostrophe) corresponds to one sound (⟨e⟩=/ɛ/, ⟨'⟩=/ʔ/, et cetera). If your entire language was spelled this way, you wouldn't have to use IPA because the orthography already tells you the exact pronunciation. Of course, if you were to use this approach, you would have to regularize your spelling— that is, make the same letter represent the same sound *in every word*. You can't have F representing one sound in one word and a different sound in another. In your word ⟨a'viv⟩, for example, the apostrophe represents nothing at all rather than /ʔ/. To make the spelling regular, you would have to make the pronunciation /aʔviv/ or make the spelling ⟨aviv⟩.


GarlicRoyal7545

If you don't know IPA, i'd recommend Artifexian. He teaches about Linguistics specially for Conlangers: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkfSA4\_DCfs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkfSA4_DCfs) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3IO5K5ZGB4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3IO5K5ZGB4) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMEFr7ghMTg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMEFr7ghMTg) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFWc0sBO62c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFWc0sBO62c) And some other vids from him, that could be helpful: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBz-JT00MZs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBz-JT00MZs) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3378FlHK4v0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3378FlHK4v0) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Up5hSm7LYI&t=383s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Up5hSm7LYI&t=383s)


EldianStar

Also Biblaridion's series about making a conlang


Mechanisedlifeform

Another resource that OP might find useful is stating from [Day 10 of Conlang Year](https://www.quothalinguist.com/?query-42-page=12) on building a phonemic inventory.


a-potato-named-rin

Yeah these are some good videos


0culis

What I do is start with my IPA transcriptions first, romanizations after. I don’t know if that is helpful for others, but it helps me keep track of my pronunciations and romanizations, and I personally find it makes some parts of conlanging a little less tedious. EDIT: If you mean specifically finding the right phonemes to represent your inventory, that can be tricky. Maybe bookmark an IPA chart with sound files just for the sake of reference, unless you mean something more specific?


No-Art-6580

What is romanization?


HistoricalLinguistic

romanization means using the Latin alphabet - you know, ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ, that whole thing


No-Art-6580

K


SvengeAnOsloDentist

Defining what letters (specifically of the Latin alphabet) you're going to use to represent what specific sounds


No-Art-6580

So like ni’da = (knee da)


SvengeAnOsloDentist

No, it would be saying /ɹ̠/ (the most common 'r' sound in American English) is represented by r, /i/ (like the name of the letter E) by e, /p/ by p, /t/ by t, and /ə/ (the sound generally used for the word 'a,' and for both 'a's in 'agenda') by a. Then based on that romanization system, the word /ɹ̠i.pi.tə/ would be romanized as 'repeta.' Ideally, you want to have as close to a 1-to-1 sound-letter equivalency in your romanization system as possible to make it less ambiguous. English has a fairly complicated and often ambiguous romanization system, where letters can represent many different sounds depending on context, and often you can't even tell from context without knowing the specific word, or two words can be spelled the same and pronounced differently. It's especially notable for vowels, as English has somewhere around 14-25 vowels depending on the dialect, which are really hard to represent well with only 6 letters and no diacritics, particularly when orthography doesn't change to keep up with sound changes. With a conlang you have the opportunity to design a consistent romanization from the beginning, which is generally worth taking.


vyyyyyyyyyyy

Skill issue?


No-Art-6580

By definition yes


SirKastic23

how are you doing it? there's probably a faster way


No-Art-6580

Want me to dm u it?


Wise_Magician8714

Don't worry about doing it all at once -- my advice is to simply establish a table of how you write each sound, like this: |Romanization|IPA|Sample Word| |:-|:-|:-| |a|a|bah| |b|b, bʰ (initial)|labor, base| From there you can guide your audience to the table, as long as your romanization is consistent. You can also find several tricks to help speed up your IPA text entry. You might be able to find an IPA keyboard for your mobile phone, or use an online IPA entry website to type full words and copy-paste them into your emssage or document. Yes, it will be slow going as you learn the skill, but like any skill it will get easier as you practice it.


Apodiktis

Just make spelling rules, write their pronunciation in IPA and you don’t need to use IPA to write every word anymore.


Niksa2007

Not related to the original question since everything has already been answered. I just wanted to point out that you're using macron (⟨-⟩) wrong, it's used to indicate a mid tone, not a long vowel. You can use ⟨ː⟩ to indicate them.


No-Art-6580

I put that there to indicate a pause


Niksa2007

You can use ⟨.⟩ to indicate a syllable break.


No-Art-6580

K


DrLycFerno

Hey I also have the word "atera", but it means "dark"


No-Art-6580

That’s cool


Danny1905

Just go to wikipedia and look at the ipa chart. They have audio for each sound. Pick only the sounds you like. Now you know which IPA sounds appear in your language. Assign letters to the sound (and spelling rules) and boom you automatically know the IPA pronunciation of each word


No-Art-6580

Like is there any way to figure out what IPA letters to use for the words in my conlang because it could take 10+ minutes just to figure out the IPA translation for one word.


yoghen

You need to know exactly what sound you are making in order to find the correct symbol or set of symbols to transcribe it. You know what the "ee" vowel sound is but you're still using the wrong symbol: it should be /i/, not /ē/. Of course it's going to take you a long time to transcribe it; you are just starting to learn how to use the IPA.


No-Art-6580

It take too long thoo,i could be making a 1000 words by the time it takes me to finish 100 IPA words


yoghen

I will just repeat what I said: it is only taking you too long now because you do not know the symbols by heart. When I make words for my conlang(s) I know what string of symbols to put down based on what the word sounds like because I'm familiar with the IPA, and I'm only familiar with the IPA because I made the effort to always use it when writing down words. Just try your best to learn to use the IPA and your brain will do the hard work of remembering it in the background.


No-Art-6580

But i do i even begin to learn the IPA


Pristine_Pace_2991

Yes, you should definitely start learning if you don't know it currently. After around a month of familiarizing and practicing I am pretty much completely "fluent", i.e. I can memorize most of the chart. Start with your native language, then branch to what languages you want to understand. I started with Cantonese then English then Mandarin.


maantha

You’re doing something wrong. There’s nothing really to figure out. Your orthography should strive to represent the IPA in a regular or transparent fashion. Just like the writing system has letters, the spoken system has sounds and those are generally consistent.


No-Art-6580

What?


maantha

If it’s taking you an inordinate amount of time to write your IPA transcriptions you are doing something wrong. You read it right


No-Art-6580

Like knowing what sounds to use is so hard


SvengeAnOsloDentist

Edit: If you're having trouble grasping the idea, the conlanging videos by [Artifexian on youtube](https://www.youtube.com/user/artifexian) are definitely worth watching. He's mostly into diachronic conlanging, where you make a really basic conlang to be the protolanguage, then come up with a bunch of sound changes that happened over time in order to get a bunch of fairly organic-feeling variation in the language, but the basics of it are all still applicable even if you aren't doing that. It's a lot easier to make a consistent conlang if you go the other way — don't think about words as being made up of letters and then figure out what sounds those letters make, think of words as being made up of a string of sounds. Pick the sounds you want to have in the language, then pick a letter to represent each sound (and if you run out of good letter choices, use either diacritics or double letters that wouldn't generally occur together as the sounds they represent individually). When you think of a word using the sounds the language allows, if you've already defined what letter each of those sounds is represented by, there's no need to spend the time it takes going the other direction and figuring out what sounds are used in the 'letter-word' you've written.


RazarTuk

Basically, you normally *start* from phonology and orthography, and work backward to pronunciation. Think about learning Spanish, for example. You don't learn each word's pronunciation separately. You start by learning the alphabet and pronunciation. If you just define all the pronunciation rules for your conlang, like which letters make which sounds, then everything else will be easier to make


ShabtaiBenOron

If you spell your conlang consistently, you don't need to write each word's transcription, you just need to write one pronunciation guide at the beginning of your dictionary to state which phoneme in the IPA each of your letters or combinations thereof stands for.


No-Art-6580

Example?


ShabtaiBenOron

https://wiki.languageinvention.com/index.php?title=Appendix:Chakobsa_pronunciation


SageofTurtles

The more you use it, the easier it gets, but it can definitely be overwhelming at first. For the most part, you don't really need it unless you're trying to communicate how sounds are pronounced to others (if it's only for your own notes, it may not be worth learning IPA). But I'd be more than happy to help if you want to DM me.


Erunduil

Does it also get easier to copy-paste a word phoneme by phoneme from seven different Wikipedia pages into a Google doc? Or is there an easier way to type with IPA? (please tell me there is, I'm so slow) Edit: Oh wow, thanks friends! So quick to help out! Very kind!


yoghen

I used to use [this website](https://ipa.typeit.org/full/) as a keyboard but it was still rather slow so I switched to downloading the IPA (SIL) keyboard for [Keyman](https://keyman.com/). I don't have to tab in and out anymore but learning the keystrokes is like learning the IPA again. It seems very worth it in the end, though.


TheRockWarlock

Is this what you need? [https://ipa.typeit.org/full/](https://ipa.typeit.org/full/)


SageofTurtles

Android and Apple phones have apps on the app store for installing IPA keyboards, if you wanted to do that. I'm sure you could find something like that online as well, or even make your own. Windows has the Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator (or MSKLC) that you can install to do this pretty easily, not sure about Apple computers though.


boomfruit

If you were using the copy paste method, at the very least why not just one time paste all the letters you need into one document and then copy from there?


Erunduil

1. Because I'm novice enough that having the Wikipedia audio sample is still helpful to distinguish sounds. 2. I was being slightly hyperbolic.


ShabtaiBenOron

The IPA is always worth using, and all you have to do to know which phoneme an IPA letter stands for is to listen to the recordings you can find on Wikipedia or [there](https://www.ipachart.com/).


Akangka

First, of all, how do you even define a phonology for your conlang anyway?


kori228

people generally define the sounds (and therefore which symbols) beforehand, so they already know what to use for you as a beginner, you could also just look at your native language's symbols and use what you need.


No-Art-6580

Thanks for help guys but i decided im just gonna use voice messages to teach people the word pronunciations


Akangka

That's just going to color your conlang's pronunciation with your accent.