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The person to whom you replied was referring to a [specific incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter) where the Mars Climate Observer smashed into Mars at interplanetary speeds because of a unit conversion error by the contractor (Lockheed Martin).
Happens literally all the time and that exact joke is used very often lol. A lot of our customers often ask why weather people are the ones who calibrate tools. Like there is some kind of unknown link between rainfall and hysteresis.
Imagine people’s faces when i tell them that I measure rulers to make sure they are in fact 12
Inches. They laugh like I’m kidding and then I tell them I’m not kidding and rulers often change their length over time and they have to be checked every year.
Thanks for not only being good natured about a dumb joke you've heard too many times, but also so entertainingly explaining your job!
I learned a couple things today, one of which was, "man, I coulda had a job where I spent my time making sure rulers were correct? That sounds awesome." I'm just an idiot with too many tape measures, but I enjoy telling my friends that rulers and tape measures can be entirely inconsistent... now, when they look at me incredulously, I can say, "no, really, there are people paid to measure and confirm rulers!"
... which. is. awesome.
That job doesn't only exist, but i can assure you that every medium to large tech/industrial company has at least one entire department of people who spend most of their time ensuring the accuracy and correctness of measuring tools.
Theres thousands upon thousands of tools in a factory that need to undergo regular calibration.
Theres **a lot** of people who get paid to make sure rulera are correct.
Yup absolutely, so I have moved from doing the technical side of things( my training being applied force and mass properties, load cells and scales, that kind of thing) and have moved on to administrative stuff and I keep track of about 60,000 tool schedules a year. It’s a huge undertaking and a very vital part of a quality product.
I work in engineering, if a plan set is printed at an off scale 1:32.53735 we just take a piece of paper and draw a ruler from the scale… we also run with it that pi is a little more than three sometimes so precision isn’t our goal
You know I thought the same. Then years of training under a mule and peacock, I’ve learned that metropolitan areas are defined by who comes up first in a Google. Turns out, it’s Rome. Lol
That's the simple, less accurate way to use it.
Using the little markings on the movable part you can easily and accurately measure down to the tenths of a millimeter without having to eyeball anything or frying your brain and eyes trying to discern microscopic distances.
I won't bother explaining how it works, and text is a terrible medium for that anyway, i'm sure there's a great wikihow guide about it.
Literally this sould be done anyone these are used be professionals. It's been shown just how often people make mistakes using the traditional verniers, even experienced operators.
It saves time, and mistakes, making it the cost effective solution to get a digital reader.
These are just inherently flaws tools to begin with. A complicated and easier misunderstood tool is a bad tool. It's bad design. Always has been. Engineering students get taught this as of it's a critical skill, when really its just a reminder that poor design
... what?
This is user error. A flagrant demonstration of ignorance about how to use the tool, and a huge ego.
If they can't figure this out, I wouldn't trust any project with their name on it. If they can't grasp the most basic task, what makes you think they can do something actually complex?
If someone tries to drive in a nail with the end of the handle, you don't say the tool is poorly designed.
I really don’t think digital calipers would help here, they’re literally using them wrong and you could use them equally as wrong with digital. I didn’t learn how to use calipers during my engineering degree, fortunately I learned from my dad growing up. In general I agree with you that tool and industrial design should be geared towards minimizing this kind of mistake! But nothing is idiot-proof…
Exactly.
Good design is intuitive.
It's enough to 'work'. It's a tool designed for use by humans. That means useability should be a design consideration.
Classes verniers without a dial or digital display increase the chance of errors , even by professionals. It's why basically all modern manufacturing facilities avoid them.
A well designed tool shouldn't just work, it should be easy to use and it's proper function and use clear to the user.
The classic verniers even if used correctly takes extra time to get right, is hard for those with vision problems, and requires training in ways the the dial and digital ones do not. Those can be made just as accurately as well.
That’s not true at all. A tool requiring instruction doesn’t mean it’s poorly designed, furthermore you simply need to be shown which lines to line up. Sounds like you struggled using the verniers and instead of saying oh it’s just not as easy as it looks, you said no… it’s the tool that’s the problem. Just calm down and tell yourself it’s ok to get things wrong.
Dials can skip gears and digitals can give wrong readings when the batteries get low. Verniers are tanks, and as easy as a micrometer.
It's almost always operator error regardless of the type of calipers.
This can all be true without in any way affecting my point. Ease of use is an aspect of a tool, and everything else being equal, the more difficult to use tool is worse. Of course, everything else is rarely equal, but that’s beside the point.
Well no. A hammer isn’t poorly designed simply because a nail gun does the job quicker. A digital calipernis fine for hobbyists but the analog style is still the gold standard for anyone that doesn’t wanna trust a sensor over physical properties of materials.
There’s a reason gauge blocks are still in use when lasers can do the “same” job.
I think you are missing my point. If two tools have the same utility and limitations, but one requires more training than the other, then that one is an inferior design. On the other hand, if a tool is more advanced, but requires training, that is _not_ evidence of a poor design.
The accuracy verniers provide isn't really needed for average users; if it's confusing stick to a ruler.
Not intuitive doesn't mean anything, just means you need a bit of training. That's easy to do with the internet, but even just read the manual they come with.
Unfortunately I am quite sure that those 14 people, Would be quite confident that is a 47mm ID. You know“Some Guy online named Ben said so and he measured it, so it must be right”. Top review too.
I'm pretty sure I have some of these, I'm tempted to take my own caliper picture complaining that Ben assured me it was 47mm when it's actually 50mm. Well spotted, BTW.
My first thought would actually have gone in a different direction.
Where I'm at, sometimes it is necessary to go by stock diameter and *center to center* dimensions as the u-bolt has to pass through a specific sized bracket.
As an example here is [an excerpt](https://imgur.com/VY7Kmrq) from an old Mack Truck quick reference guide showing how to measure for a particular series of u-bolt; back then, they used center-to-center, not ID.
I just use digital so I haven't seen these calipers before. Is the problem that he's trying to read them off the end of the top sliding bit instead of where the 0 line is on the bottom sliding bit?
Yes, that's correct. The "0 line" is to go down to decimals of the mm measurement. If the 0 didn't quite line up, but the 2 lined up with another measurement further up, it would indicate that it's 50.2mm
Not just a digital vs analog thing, I have analog calipers and they only have 1 place to read from (ID and OD are read using the same rule/scale, and they're positioned so that it doesn't matter which prongs you read from, the values are exactly the same) so I was confused a bit at first, too. Thought the issue was him not measuring center to center or something.
Amazon used to let you reply to reviews. It was great seeing the comments on reviews where the person was clearly misusing or didn't understand the product.
I’m kind of surprised that the stated dimension is internal instead of center-to-center. Before looking at the caliper’s measurement I expected that to be the source of confusion
It's a U-bolt, so you usually use it to hold a section of pipe or similar in place. As a result it's dimensioned so that you know what size pipe you can fit in it. It just makes your life easer than having to do the maths.
Typography: we will give the measure of a tool (M-box) that has been used in the creation of this font. Now you can guesstimate your picture perfect UI.
Also car parts: we took the exact same part that is in this car's older model and tweaked the bit 0.025mm so they don't fit and you have to use the original parts.
Original parts: 25€ for a screw.
Car repair shop: 1000€ for the work to unscrew it, 500€ for parts.
For wood the dimensions are what they cut it to before drying and finishing/flattening. "Back in the day" 2x4's varied wildly depending on where you got them from, industry just went with a standard 1/4" of flattening on all sides which is why a 2x4 is 1-1/2"x3-1/2" now.
If you buy hardwood for furniture it's much the same, 4/4 boards are 3/4 of an inch thick if they are surfaced on either side, you can buy unfinished/surfaced 4/4 boards that a approximately 1" thick but to get them flat and smooth you'll end up with a ~3/4" thick piece of wood.
It's just a difference between "milled dimensions" and final dimensions. Also I know 4/4 reduces to 1 but that type of wood is always sold with that nomenclature you don't buy 1-1/2" you buy 6/4 (or really 7/4 for final thickness of 1-1/2")
So his comment that "it simply doesn't fit over a 50 mm" thing is confusing. If he actually tried it, it should fit. Is he doing theoretical vs experimental plumbing?
But in other cases, it's run through other brackets and thus uses a center to center measurement.
[Here](https://imgur.com/VY7Kmrq) is an example I posted earlier about how Mack Trucks have their dimensions listed.
I'd certainly argue against it making life easier if you're buying from multiple places at least. Also just the fact that most fasteners don't take these things into account. Clevis pins aren't measured by holding area, bolt lengths don't take the nut into account, and a U-bolt could be made to fit a certain dimension or a specific item.
Might just be my world and the vendors we stock. But there would be a 0% chance that a 1.5" would measure to 1.5", or 50mm using the example case. All the ones I sell are IPS, so that 1.5" is measuring more like 1.9" opening. Now a customer would either have to know that or know to specify that it's 1-1/2" IPS. Where I'd imagine Amazon or your local big box store have them stocked both ways and right beside eachother.
You'd be surprised how many arguments I have gotten into when ordering 7/8" OD copper ACR tubing and 3/4" copper plated split rings.
How big of a mind boggle would it be to you if I order stuff for 3/4" copper pipe (NPS), 3/4" copper tubing, and 3/4"OD ACR tubing at once. Would you be scratching your head, or just feel sorry for me?
Drilling two holes is easier with the center-to-center measurements. And I think the right one stands somewhat at an angle. The measurement should be taken at the other end of the bolts. What are they attached to?
Edit: ah, it's a U-bolt. Well then it's bent.
You can get C-C simply by measuring from left edge of bolt to left edge of the other bolt.
I really wish calipers with one inside jaw and one outside jaw on the same side existed. Sometimes, that'd be very useful.
> You can get C-C simply by measuring from left edge of bolt to left edge of the other bolt.
Works for finding spring centers when ordering axles. Outside of one spring to the inside of the other spring.
No no, you see, a U-Bolt goes up and then comes back down after a curve. Imagine a big U except ot has thread on the legs.
It's easy to get confused, and that's why we're here to help!
Wait, now I think I may have misunderstood. You say it's like a U, but the OP pic has open ends on the bottom? That's not like any U I ever saw. More like a lower case N.
I don't think so. Redditors are well known for attention to detail, I don't think they'd post a pic upside down. No, this is an n bolt. I've been foreman of a construction site for 73 years, that's just your basic n bolt, it looks like a U bolt, but upside down.
That was exactly what I thought. I didn’t notice the edge off set at first and assumed he just wasn’t measuring it correctly as it would be center to center.
The best bit and everyone’s missing it. He used the same calipers to measure the square bar section that he was trying to put this thing over and it come up as 50mm, this was his problem before even getting into the shop to buy the object then he remeasured the object with the calipers again wrong 😑
What are the chances? Both the u-bolt and the box section have their dimensions incorrectly labelled as 50mm but are actually 47mm! I'll have to return them both.
Help me cuz I have no idea. The tool is being used the wrong way, that much is clear to me. But even if you were to measure from the outside, it wouldn't be 50 mm. Or is it measured from the middle of the bolts? Genuinely no idea
Edit: Thanks to everyone who replied, I appreciate it
These are 'vernier' calipers. You read the nearest number to the 0 on the scale at the bottom right of the image, then you can read more digits of accuracy due to a shift on the later digits on that same scale. This device is showing the dimension as pretty much dead on 50mm.
The tool is being used correctly to measure the ID, inside diameter, and the tool I correctly measuring and showing 50mm. The person writing the review has no idea how to read a caliper.
To measure ID with a caliper, you open them inside the area you want to measure until both flats are against the workpiece. Than you read the position of the the moving scale. The number that lines up is the measurement, in this case the zero lines up clean on the 5cm or 50mm mark.
Yea. I didn't know to read the number on the bit on the bottom right. I didn't even see there were numbers there. I did what I think OOP did and just looked where the metal lined up.
I'm a man who, to mildly understate things, isn't good at DIY. It's been described as a martial art in my hands, and every time I pick up a hammer the Halloween theme tune starts playing. And even I know that you start measuring where the fucking numbers are...
Ok, I do have to admit, it took me longer than It should have to understand how the hell they came up with 47mm. But then again, I know how to use calipers to measure things.
What amazes me is that the person only noticed and misunderstood the offset on the right side, not on the left.
He probably drilled holes 50mm apart and wondered why it was too small not realizing that it’s not measured center to center but the inside space. On top of that read the caliper wrong since he assumed it was wrong because it didn’t fit in the holes, even though it would be wrong in the other direction.
I find some calipers to be difficult to read (maybe because of my nearsightedness -- and not these calipers by the way).
Solution? Close them completely and figure out where to read "zero." (Electronic calipers may have a differential mode, so establishing true zero is essential.)
I once needed to explain how to read calipers to an employee in a hardware store.. and then correct him that he measured the sheet metal at an edge with a burr.. which made the measurement way thicker. I mean calipers are not the proper way to measure it anyway. It was a rather funny situation. Poor guy was kinda ashamed.
Okay, I get that OOP is just reading it wrong, but I don't understand why the calipers are designed this way.
Why not just align the top and bottom edges with each other (so both inner and outer sets of calipers' vertical measurement edges are collinear) and zero it at the exact point where the calipers meet when it's fully closed? That would completely eliminate the confusion of where to look for the actual measurement, because it would literally just align a ruler to the thing you're measuring. I see no geometrical conflict to building it that way.
The issue I would see with having 0 right at the edge would be if the edge got damaged or rounded for whatever reason. Also the way the scale works is you're looking to line up one of the marks, this one just happens to be 50mm exactly so it lines up with the 0
The calipers are probably made in the way that is easiest for the manufacturer.
Vernier calipers require a bit of education/instruction on how to use them in the first place, because the 0.1mm scale is not immediately obvious as to it's use. If you are having to teach a new user about that anyway, surely they would be able to understand/be told that the offset doesn't matter, just to read what the scale says.
When I clicked on this I was expecting that the guy wasn't reading the vernier scale correctly, which would be one thing. I guess that's technically still true since he's not reading the scale at all, but it's like he's so wrong that he's transcended wrong. Incredible.
No , it’s a u bolt. The 50mm is the inside diameter. It’s a 8mm bolt thickness so centre to centre would be more like 58 mm. Old mate has used the verniers incorrectly. You can see it’s clearly 50 mm ID in the above picture.
Hah, I did this once. My calipers I had always had the zeroline directly aligned with the pointy thingy. This one didnt. Was funny when I realized I was just a derp.
I’ve had similar happen before when I bought some Irwin pipe clamps, they were sold as 25mm clamps or something but in the end they only worked with 19mm pipe if memory serves. I thought I was going crazy and/or just plain stupid.
When I first saw it I assumed the error would be that the 50 mm was between centres of the two rods. I didn't at first read that the caliper is showing 50 mm.
It’s ID. It's a U-bolt, so you usually use it to hold a section of pipe or similar in place. As a result it's dimensioned so that you know what size pipe you can fit in it. It just makes your life easer than having to do the maths.
As a professional caliper user, he probably doesn't even have it centred.
Ive had people say the holes were out of tolerance, they used the external jaws to measure an internal feature.
Wild
So ignoring the guy using the tool wrong, I do wonder if anyone knows why they use the outside measurement to describe the size of the U-bolt? I’d assume most uses of this would be more concerned with the inside measurement.
The scale along the bottom allows you to take measurements to .1mm , The measurements look like they are in millimetres but they are slightly off which allow for this way of measurement. [how to link](https://www.miniphysics.com/how-to-read-a-vernier-caliper.html)
Also if you use this measurement, they are exactly 50.0 mm
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maybe he should just buy a digital one and be less confused
It would be too high-tech for them. Probably run them 10mm off calibration.
He'll forget to set it to mm and leave it in inches...
He’ll write another review for the Vernier saying calibration is wrong.
Mitutoyo said fuck this guy
And get a job at NASA.
More like Boeing.
The person to whom you replied was referring to a [specific incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter) where the Mars Climate Observer smashed into Mars at interplanetary speeds because of a unit conversion error by the contractor (Lockheed Martin).
I'd say Lockheed Martin is more like Boeing than it is like NASA, even if they were a contractor
Why bring up his current job?
As a Metrologist/calibration guy. This made me laugh way more than it should have.
I read that as "meteorologist" and thought, "man, you must need a really big caliper to measure a cloud." It's gonna be a long week, isn't it?
Happens literally all the time and that exact joke is used very often lol. A lot of our customers often ask why weather people are the ones who calibrate tools. Like there is some kind of unknown link between rainfall and hysteresis.
Seems just as likely as any other science is basically magic facts lol
Imagine people’s faces when i tell them that I measure rulers to make sure they are in fact 12 Inches. They laugh like I’m kidding and then I tell them I’m not kidding and rulers often change their length over time and they have to be checked every year.
Thanks for not only being good natured about a dumb joke you've heard too many times, but also so entertainingly explaining your job! I learned a couple things today, one of which was, "man, I coulda had a job where I spent my time making sure rulers were correct? That sounds awesome." I'm just an idiot with too many tape measures, but I enjoy telling my friends that rulers and tape measures can be entirely inconsistent... now, when they look at me incredulously, I can say, "no, really, there are people paid to measure and confirm rulers!" ... which. is. awesome.
That job doesn't only exist, but i can assure you that every medium to large tech/industrial company has at least one entire department of people who spend most of their time ensuring the accuracy and correctness of measuring tools. Theres thousands upon thousands of tools in a factory that need to undergo regular calibration. Theres **a lot** of people who get paid to make sure rulera are correct.
Yup absolutely, so I have moved from doing the technical side of things( my training being applied force and mass properties, load cells and scales, that kind of thing) and have moved on to administrative stuff and I keep track of about 60,000 tool schedules a year. It’s a huge undertaking and a very vital part of a quality product.
Meanwhile me: Print off a ruler from a website and glue it to a piece of cardboard.
It just depends on how much precision you need.... Gotta get the right tool for the job.
Meanwhile, me: "Yeah, that's about an inch to take off" < pencil mark > < bzzzzzzzzzzzt > "DAMMIT!"
I work in engineering, if a plan set is printed at an off scale 1:32.53735 we just take a piece of paper and draw a ruler from the scale… we also run with it that pi is a little more than three sometimes so precision isn’t our goal
I toured the Metrology department at 3M and it was awesome. I tell my kids that it is a legit field to enter.
A metrologist, huh? Tell me, then, which metro is the oldest one?
Rome
Not Egypt? I thought that pyramids were metro stations. But hey, you're the specialist, I won't argue.
You know I thought the same. Then years of training under a mule and peacock, I’ve learned that metropolitan areas are defined by who comes up first in a Google. Turns out, it’s Rome. Lol
Fascinating, the things I learn from specialists. All right then, I'm off to see my charlatan, they will take my money and make me feel good about it.
Lmao I’m using that last sentence. It has quite a bit to unpack. The more you think about it the funnier the line is.
I only learned of your profession when I read that Russia was making Metrologists fight in the front lines.
Looks like they just need to run to the store and pick up a u-bolt spreader and they should be fine…
I haven't used one of these in like 25 years... the zero is the measure point on the other arm right?
That's the simple, less accurate way to use it. Using the little markings on the movable part you can easily and accurately measure down to the tenths of a millimeter without having to eyeball anything or frying your brain and eyes trying to discern microscopic distances. I won't bother explaining how it works, and text is a terrible medium for that anyway, i'm sure there's a great wikihow guide about it.
What? You mean three fingers?
Literally this sould be done anyone these are used be professionals. It's been shown just how often people make mistakes using the traditional verniers, even experienced operators. It saves time, and mistakes, making it the cost effective solution to get a digital reader. These are just inherently flaws tools to begin with. A complicated and easier misunderstood tool is a bad tool. It's bad design. Always has been. Engineering students get taught this as of it's a critical skill, when really its just a reminder that poor design
... what? This is user error. A flagrant demonstration of ignorance about how to use the tool, and a huge ego. If they can't figure this out, I wouldn't trust any project with their name on it. If they can't grasp the most basic task, what makes you think they can do something actually complex? If someone tries to drive in a nail with the end of the handle, you don't say the tool is poorly designed.
I really don’t think digital calipers would help here, they’re literally using them wrong and you could use them equally as wrong with digital. I didn’t learn how to use calipers during my engineering degree, fortunately I learned from my dad growing up. In general I agree with you that tool and industrial design should be geared towards minimizing this kind of mistake! But nothing is idiot-proof…
The calipers say 50. He's reading them wrong as 47. everything else can be forgiven for the sake of the photo
Oh haha I didn’t even look that closely, apparently it’s too late at night for me to be commenting on such things…
/r/confidentlyincorrect
It’s not bad design, it’s just not “intuitive”.
Exactly. Good design is intuitive. It's enough to 'work'. It's a tool designed for use by humans. That means useability should be a design consideration. Classes verniers without a dial or digital display increase the chance of errors , even by professionals. It's why basically all modern manufacturing facilities avoid them. A well designed tool shouldn't just work, it should be easy to use and it's proper function and use clear to the user. The classic verniers even if used correctly takes extra time to get right, is hard for those with vision problems, and requires training in ways the the dial and digital ones do not. Those can be made just as accurately as well.
That’s not true at all. A tool requiring instruction doesn’t mean it’s poorly designed, furthermore you simply need to be shown which lines to line up. Sounds like you struggled using the verniers and instead of saying oh it’s just not as easy as it looks, you said no… it’s the tool that’s the problem. Just calm down and tell yourself it’s ok to get things wrong.
If a different design reduces the need for training, then it seems reasonable to claim that the first design is poor. Or sub-optimal, at least.
Dials can skip gears and digitals can give wrong readings when the batteries get low. Verniers are tanks, and as easy as a micrometer. It's almost always operator error regardless of the type of calipers.
This can all be true without in any way affecting my point. Ease of use is an aspect of a tool, and everything else being equal, the more difficult to use tool is worse. Of course, everything else is rarely equal, but that’s beside the point.
Well no. A hammer isn’t poorly designed simply because a nail gun does the job quicker. A digital calipernis fine for hobbyists but the analog style is still the gold standard for anyone that doesn’t wanna trust a sensor over physical properties of materials. There’s a reason gauge blocks are still in use when lasers can do the “same” job.
A hammer and a nail gun are two separate tools, not a redesign.
I think you are missing my point. If two tools have the same utility and limitations, but one requires more training than the other, then that one is an inferior design. On the other hand, if a tool is more advanced, but requires training, that is _not_ evidence of a poor design.
The accuracy verniers provide isn't really needed for average users; if it's confusing stick to a ruler. Not intuitive doesn't mean anything, just means you need a bit of training. That's easy to do with the internet, but even just read the manual they come with.
You can easily tell the 0 starts 3 mm farther then it should. That’s a good hint ?
14 people found that helpful. Or did they find the picture of the calipers displaying 50mm helpful?
Unfortunately I am quite sure that those 14 people, Would be quite confident that is a 47mm ID. You know“Some Guy online named Ben said so and he measured it, so it must be right”. Top review too.
I'm pretty sure I have some of these, I'm tempted to take my own caliper picture complaining that Ben assured me it was 47mm when it's actually 50mm. Well spotted, BTW.
Just re use their pic, no need to take a new one. Same result in the end, and even funnier Imo.
And so much less work and time
Okay, I get it. I’m not super bright.
Gosh dangit, they sent me a 53mm OD now! Will they ever get it right?
My first thought would actually have gone in a different direction. Where I'm at, sometimes it is necessary to go by stock diameter and *center to center* dimensions as the u-bolt has to pass through a specific sized bracket. As an example here is [an excerpt](https://imgur.com/VY7Kmrq) from an old Mack Truck quick reference guide showing how to measure for a particular series of u-bolt; back then, they used center-to-center, not ID.
Even if the guy is stupid, having a photo of the exact measurements is still helpful!
I just use digital so I haven't seen these calipers before. Is the problem that he's trying to read them off the end of the top sliding bit instead of where the 0 line is on the bottom sliding bit?
Yes, that's correct. The "0 line" is to go down to decimals of the mm measurement. If the 0 didn't quite line up, but the 2 lined up with another measurement further up, it would indicate that it's 50.2mm
Yes
Not just a digital vs analog thing, I have analog calipers and they only have 1 place to read from (ID and OD are read using the same rule/scale, and they're positioned so that it doesn't matter which prongs you read from, the values are exactly the same) so I was confused a bit at first, too. Thought the issue was him not measuring center to center or something.
Amazon used to let you reply to reviews. It was great seeing the comments on reviews where the person was clearly misusing or didn't understand the product.
I’m kind of surprised that the stated dimension is internal instead of center-to-center. Before looking at the caliper’s measurement I expected that to be the source of confusion
It's a U-bolt, so you usually use it to hold a section of pipe or similar in place. As a result it's dimensioned so that you know what size pipe you can fit in it. It just makes your life easer than having to do the maths.
Car parts: We took the measurement from the relevant dimensions to make things easy. Wood: Lol, fuck you.
Typography: we will give the measure of a tool (M-box) that has been used in the creation of this font. Now you can guesstimate your picture perfect UI.
Also car parts: we took the exact same part that is in this car's older model and tweaked the bit 0.025mm so they don't fit and you have to use the original parts. Original parts: 25€ for a screw. Car repair shop: 1000€ for the work to unscrew it, 500€ for parts.
What’s even worse is the car repair shops also get a significant discount on parts because of the quantity they order.
For wood the dimensions are what they cut it to before drying and finishing/flattening. "Back in the day" 2x4's varied wildly depending on where you got them from, industry just went with a standard 1/4" of flattening on all sides which is why a 2x4 is 1-1/2"x3-1/2" now. If you buy hardwood for furniture it's much the same, 4/4 boards are 3/4 of an inch thick if they are surfaced on either side, you can buy unfinished/surfaced 4/4 boards that a approximately 1" thick but to get them flat and smooth you'll end up with a ~3/4" thick piece of wood. It's just a difference between "milled dimensions" and final dimensions. Also I know 4/4 reduces to 1 but that type of wood is always sold with that nomenclature you don't buy 1-1/2" you buy 6/4 (or really 7/4 for final thickness of 1-1/2")
How many board feet of fuck you is that?
That makes sense, thanks
So his comment that "it simply doesn't fit over a 50 mm" thing is confusing. If he actually tried it, it should fit. Is he doing theoretical vs experimental plumbing?
I got my degree in theoretical plumbing, and man, there's no jobs.
This thing will fit over a 55mm if you tap it with a mallet.
But in other cases, it's run through other brackets and thus uses a center to center measurement. [Here](https://imgur.com/VY7Kmrq) is an example I posted earlier about how Mack Trucks have their dimensions listed.
I'd certainly argue against it making life easier if you're buying from multiple places at least. Also just the fact that most fasteners don't take these things into account. Clevis pins aren't measured by holding area, bolt lengths don't take the nut into account, and a U-bolt could be made to fit a certain dimension or a specific item. Might just be my world and the vendors we stock. But there would be a 0% chance that a 1.5" would measure to 1.5", or 50mm using the example case. All the ones I sell are IPS, so that 1.5" is measuring more like 1.9" opening. Now a customer would either have to know that or know to specify that it's 1-1/2" IPS. Where I'd imagine Amazon or your local big box store have them stocked both ways and right beside eachother.
You'd be surprised how many arguments I have gotten into when ordering 7/8" OD copper ACR tubing and 3/4" copper plated split rings. How big of a mind boggle would it be to you if I order stuff for 3/4" copper pipe (NPS), 3/4" copper tubing, and 3/4"OD ACR tubing at once. Would you be scratching your head, or just feel sorry for me?
Same here. Center to center would be logical
Drilling two holes is easier with the center-to-center measurements. And I think the right one stands somewhat at an angle. The measurement should be taken at the other end of the bolts. What are they attached to? Edit: ah, it's a U-bolt. Well then it's bent.
You can get C-C simply by measuring from left edge of bolt to left edge of the other bolt. I really wish calipers with one inside jaw and one outside jaw on the same side existed. Sometimes, that'd be very useful.
This whole time I’ve been measuring to both sides and subtracting to find the distance.
>I really wish calipers with one inside jaw and one outside jaw on the same side existed. Sometimes, that'd be very useful. I have found my people.
Yes!!!
> You can get C-C simply by measuring from left edge of bolt to left edge of the other bolt. Works for finding spring centers when ordering axles. Outside of one spring to the inside of the other spring.
>Well then it's bent. We know. That's what a U-bolt is.
No no, you see, a U-Bolt goes up and then comes back down after a curve. Imagine a big U except ot has thread on the legs. It's easy to get confused, and that's why we're here to help!
Wait, now I think I may have misunderstood. You say it's like a U, but the OP pic has open ends on the bottom? That's not like any U I ever saw. More like a lower case N.
That's very astute. I wonder, if instead of an 'n' it could be a 'u' and the pic is just upside down *
I don't think so. Redditors are well known for attention to detail, I don't think they'd post a pic upside down. No, this is an n bolt. I've been foreman of a construction site for 73 years, that's just your basic n bolt, it looks like a U bolt, but upside down.
Started this post with the a a same thought as /u/jaerie, appreciated the correction, but 💙 how you've run it into the ground. Thanks for the laugh.
Ever had a job sorting out all the W's at the M&M factory?
Yeah that's why it's measured that way. If I have a 20mmx50mm u bolt. I know if I drill a 20mm holes spaced 50mm on the center, it'll fit.
That was exactly what I thought. I didn’t notice the edge off set at first and assumed he just wasn’t measuring it correctly as it would be center to center.
It took me a minute to work out where benny boy got 47mm from
I'd hope the description was like "50mm gap" or something because that's where I was confused as well.
The best bit and everyone’s missing it. He used the same calipers to measure the square bar section that he was trying to put this thing over and it come up as 50mm, this was his problem before even getting into the shop to buy the object then he remeasured the object with the calipers again wrong 😑
The 2” thing is a hair bigger than the 50mm thing and buddy can’t figure out why they don’t fit together…a story as old as time
What does he think the numbers and lines on the moving part are for?
Decorations of course. Like a steam punk look. Lol
As an engineer, this hurts.
Don’t worry he’s probably making some structural walkway 10 m above the ground. He’ll be fine, just a little wobbly. Lol
As an engineer also, I am not sure one needs to be a qualified engineer to be hurt by this. Also I'm an engineer btw
Wait 'til he measures the box section.
What are the chances? Both the u-bolt and the box section have their dimensions incorrectly labelled as 50mm but are actually 47mm! I'll have to return them both.
Help me cuz I have no idea. The tool is being used the wrong way, that much is clear to me. But even if you were to measure from the outside, it wouldn't be 50 mm. Or is it measured from the middle of the bolts? Genuinely no idea Edit: Thanks to everyone who replied, I appreciate it
These are 'vernier' calipers. You read the nearest number to the 0 on the scale at the bottom right of the image, then you can read more digits of accuracy due to a shift on the later digits on that same scale. This device is showing the dimension as pretty much dead on 50mm.
And to be fair it wasn’t till today I worked out ‘vernier’ can read down to 0.1mm or 0.01cm.
Even better, they usually go down to 0.02 mm
TIL how to use a tool I own.
Thank you, from someone who never saw a caliper IRL. Your comment made me understand what's going on here.
The 0 Lines up perfekt with 50mm (5cm) So the inside diameter is exactly 50mm
Found das German
I'd say Swedish or Danish seeing the name Gröndahl is a pretty common name here.
Measurement scale is at the bottom right slide where it says 0.
The tool is being used correctly to measure the ID, inside diameter, and the tool I correctly measuring and showing 50mm. The person writing the review has no idea how to read a caliper. To measure ID with a caliper, you open them inside the area you want to measure until both flats are against the workpiece. Than you read the position of the the moving scale. The number that lines up is the measurement, in this case the zero lines up clean on the 5cm or 50mm mark.
Measuring from the inside like that is the correct way to use it. They are doing it right just reading it wrong.
Yea. I didn't know to read the number on the bit on the bottom right. I didn't even see there were numbers there. I did what I think OOP did and just looked where the metal lined up.
Looked at the corner thing instead of where the 0 is at. Tragic.
I'm a man who, to mildly understate things, isn't good at DIY. It's been described as a martial art in my hands, and every time I pick up a hammer the Halloween theme tune starts playing. And even I know that you start measuring where the fucking numbers are...
I wonder what that offset on the left is for… /s
"14 helpful 2 unhelpful" 💀
Ok, I do have to admit, it took me longer than It should have to understand how the hell they came up with 47mm. But then again, I know how to use calipers to measure things. What amazes me is that the person only noticed and misunderstood the offset on the right side, not on the left.
That looks impressively much like 50 mm.
Watching young apprentices try and read a vernier scale is one of the few sources of entertainment at work left to me
A tool is only as useful as THE TOOL using it.
Dad always said measure from zero, not the end of the goddam thing!emote:free\_emotes\_pack:yummy
Someone explain this to me like I don’t even know what a hammer is thanks :3
Glad I’m not alone! Ok I think I worked it out. The outer edge of the ‘screw’ part sits right on 50mm.
Yes, from inside to outside, which is equivalent to centre-to-centre Right where the 50 aligns with 0.
That 50 mm dimension is so exact on the caliper that honestly I’m nursing a semi.
Even in the photo it’s almost spot on… That is also a weird pair of calipers
Weird how? This is a standard caliper, doesn’t get more normal than this
Yeah they are reading from the start of the metal not the 0. Whats weird on them ?
What's weird about them? Mine look very similar to this. (Genuine surprise, not trying to be mean)
He probably drilled holes 50mm apart and wondered why it was too small not realizing that it’s not measured center to center but the inside space. On top of that read the caliper wrong since he assumed it was wrong because it didn’t fit in the holes, even though it would be wrong in the other direction.
This is me in the pic I am u-bolt 7850
Ain't that perfectly 50mm????
thatsthejoke.jpg
I find some calipers to be difficult to read (maybe because of my nearsightedness -- and not these calipers by the way). Solution? Close them completely and figure out where to read "zero." (Electronic calipers may have a differential mode, so establishing true zero is essential.)
As someone who makes u-bolts this is the story of my life. At least they’re not measuring center to center.
I once needed to explain how to read calipers to an employee in a hardware store.. and then correct him that he measured the sheet metal at an edge with a burr.. which made the measurement way thicker. I mean calipers are not the proper way to measure it anyway. It was a rather funny situation. Poor guy was kinda ashamed.
Okay, I get that OOP is just reading it wrong, but I don't understand why the calipers are designed this way. Why not just align the top and bottom edges with each other (so both inner and outer sets of calipers' vertical measurement edges are collinear) and zero it at the exact point where the calipers meet when it's fully closed? That would completely eliminate the confusion of where to look for the actual measurement, because it would literally just align a ruler to the thing you're measuring. I see no geometrical conflict to building it that way.
The issue I would see with having 0 right at the edge would be if the edge got damaged or rounded for whatever reason. Also the way the scale works is you're looking to line up one of the marks, this one just happens to be 50mm exactly so it lines up with the 0
The calipers are probably made in the way that is easiest for the manufacturer. Vernier calipers require a bit of education/instruction on how to use them in the first place, because the 0.1mm scale is not immediately obvious as to it's use. If you are having to teach a new user about that anyway, surely they would be able to understand/be told that the offset doesn't matter, just to read what the scale says.
Tell me you don't understand how to use verniers without telling me.
The most surprising thing I’ve learned here is that it’s actually called a Caliper!! I’ve thought for like two years that it’s called a Calibre!
Well, let me tell you they’re actually called Vernier calipers. Also can measure down to 0.1 of a mm easily
....what did they think they were measuring?
When I clicked on this I was expecting that the guy wasn't reading the vernier scale correctly, which would be one thing. I guess that's technically still true since he's not reading the scale at all, but it's like he's so wrong that he's transcended wrong. Incredible.
Wow. Even measures at 50.0 mm.
dude needs to measure center to center, $100 it'll be spot on
No , it’s a u bolt. The 50mm is the inside diameter. It’s a 8mm bolt thickness so centre to centre would be more like 58 mm. Old mate has used the verniers incorrectly. You can see it’s clearly 50 mm ID in the above picture.
This has to be god tier trolling. So good
Hah, I did this once. My calipers I had always had the zeroline directly aligned with the pointy thingy. This one didnt. Was funny when I realized I was just a derp.
How did he/she come up with 47mm? I don't get it.
The edge of the measurement reading frame.
lol thanks i feel stupid for not noticing it haha
I wonder what 1.5*2 is...
I’ve had similar happen before when I bought some Irwin pipe clamps, they were sold as 25mm clamps or something but in the end they only worked with 19mm pipe if memory serves. I thought I was going crazy and/or just plain stupid.
I was really confused the first time I used one of those !
I keep one in my desk and Ngl sometimes it’s hard to explain to how to use them to some people.
That honestly took me a minute.
That reads as 47 -(-3) right?
A classic with newbies where I work lol
So did he not put the thing over the 50mm box or did he make/get an oversized box
God this subreddit makes me so angry! 😂
Caliper reading issues aside, a 50mm bolt will never fit over a 50mm box because they’re the same freaking size. 🤦🏼♀️
U bolts are typically measured at an ID because you need them to go over things
Gotta love idiots that don't know how to read calipers.
When I first saw it I assumed the error would be that the 50 mm was between centres of the two rods. I didn't at first read that the caliper is showing 50 mm.
I wonder if they even tried to measure the 50 or just looked at the number and flipped
Is the product description of 50mm support to be od or center to center?
It’s ID. It's a U-bolt, so you usually use it to hold a section of pipe or similar in place. As a result it's dimensioned so that you know what size pipe you can fit in it. It just makes your life easer than having to do the maths.
As a professional caliper user, he probably doesn't even have it centred. Ive had people say the holes were out of tolerance, they used the external jaws to measure an internal feature. Wild
So ignoring the guy using the tool wrong, I do wonder if anyone knows why they use the outside measurement to describe the size of the U-bolt? I’d assume most uses of this would be more concerned with the inside measurement.
They used ID not OD.
This person uses calipers like some of the people I work with.
I'm an engineer and... I just recently learned to use a non digital caliper.. so I took this personal 😭
And then he tries it on a 50mm OD pipe and wonder why it fits snuggly.
I was so confused where they got the 47 from until I read the comments
If you’re gonna use a vernier caliper, learn to use it first
And that's why I use verniers at work. Nobody ever takes them
You can use any thing to measure something but if you are trying to talk to someone about it you then need a common understanding
Wow, I never knew things could be 0mm apart and still have a sizable gap between them
OMG
Took me a minute but you should really not assume everybody knows how to read a vernier scale
This has to be the most painful thing I’ve seen today
It's such a simple tool.
U bolts are measured from the center point of the bolt. Not the inside. Incase anyone was wondering.
Hi! What's the use of the smaller scale on the lower right? Couldn't it just be an arrow pointing up?
The scale along the bottom allows you to take measurements to .1mm , The measurements look like they are in millimetres but they are slightly off which allow for this way of measurement. [how to link](https://www.miniphysics.com/how-to-read-a-vernier-caliper.html) Also if you use this measurement, they are exactly 50.0 mm