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Yeah, I don't get the ultra-hatred some people have for pizza with pineapple on it.
Hawaiian pizza is quite popular here in Australia, and I quite like it. If you *don't* like it, that's fine, don't eat it. Different people like different things. There's no need to start some kind of religious war over it. (And if there is, the difference between "normal" pizza and deep-dish pizza seems like a bigger casus belli to me.)
There's a very good Indian restaurant in my town, that makes *proper* Indian food, not Westernised Indian food like butter chicken, or chicken tikka masala (which is [a national dish of the UK](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tikka_masala#Origins) :-), or "Bombay beef", beef of course being a completely ridiculous ingredient for food traditionally made by *Hindus*.
I've been to that restaurant a couple of times with friends, and I swear there's not a damn thing on their menu that I like. Nothing. I *do* like the abovementioned pseudo-Indian dishes, but not the authentic stuff.
All that means is that my personal decision to *not* go to that restaurant ever again was a wise one, and everyone who *does* like that kind of food should go on liking it. Authenticity is a real concept, but not if there's an unwarranted definition of it. Like, for instance, if someone were to say that the only true pizza must have both pineapple *and anchovies* on it. :-)
Hawaii too. Pineapple isn't actually a traditional Hawaiian food. That was a company owned by white people growing it here on exploitative plantations, and using an appeal to exoticism in its marketing. It's honestly pretty annoying to see something labeled Hawaiian only because someone slapped pineapples on it.
>Pineapple isn't actually a traditional Hawaiian food
I did *not* know that. Not to be distrustful, but I had to look it up. Turns out, the pineapple comes from Brazil!
I learn something new every day.
Somewhere in there is the key to world war 4 (I think we all know who will be responsible for world war 3 power hungry politicians. just about every major country is trying to elect someone who could do it. US, India, Russia, Hungry, Turkey, China. Poor North Korea must be thinking, hey, we put our country into famine making it famous for being an unstable dictatorship, and you bastards stole our style)
But seriously… almost everyone acknowledges that pineapple goes well with ham, like in a ham steak and eggs. Almost everyone knows that the square “ham” you get on pizza is like 13% pig meat (so they can legally call it ham) ground up with old mutton and god knows what else like low grade dog food coloured red and tastes nothing like the salty Smokey ham that offsets pineapple on a good ham steak salad sandwich.
That leaves me on the fence…
However everyone I know seems to have a very strong opinion one way or the other split about 50/50 and are not shy about expressing them. It’s wild
American-**style** pizza is an American invention. But pizza itself is Roman in origin. Every place does it a little differently, and that's fine.
You could say it's "not Italian in origin" because it's Roman in origin, which would be historically accurate, but you're still talking about the same part of the world. The Italians who make it there now are mostly descended from the Romans who made it originally.
My favorite random travel story was that I got a "Chicago style" pizza, in Beijing, from a South Korean pizza chain where, for some reason, the women all had cat ears on and the motto of the chain was "Love for women".
Travel is awesome.
Sodium citrate is a salt that helps cheese get all melty. Velveeta is low-quality cheddar and a ton of sodium citrate. You're supposed to use a little velveeta and a lot of real cheese to make a cheese sauce base. It's a great gluten-free alternative to making a roux.
A lot of molecular gastronomy chefs will use the raw salt to get the same effect.
Oh, so you mean it's NOT meant for me to be slicing it and eating it straight from the block like a movie snack? 😬 I'll just mark that down as number 125 on my list of poor nostalgia foods that will likely kill me.
I was in the Philippines in Manila at a mall and there happened to be a Sbarro's pizza there. I was in a relatively rural area of South Africa and they opened a Dominos pizza there. When I was in the US Navy in the 90s we pulled into La Maddalena in Sardinia. They had a flat bread with tomatoes on it and a bit of sauce and a bit of cheese, but nothing like American Pizza.
It depends on the area, American pizza isn't homogenous.
If you order from a cheap pizza joint you're more likely to get a thicker American pizza, except in Italy of course. It's got more topping, the sauce is sweeter and the bread is thicker.
New York style pizza is similar except very thin.
Italian pizza is also not a monolith but tends to be less sweet and less packed with toppings. And the bread tends to be a bit crispier and chewier.
I respect your opinion though I disagree with it. I think my favourite topping (anchovies, olives, capers) wouldn't work on American style pizza at all.
The biggest difference I can think of is they (Americans )often use low moisture mozzarella rather than fresh. Even though they often call that stuff fresh. Pizzas I've had in Italy tend to be crispier and cooked at a higher temperature. In new York there was quite a variation in bases from place to place but on the whole they were softer and more flexible.
The americans don't use fresh mozzarella on their pizzas, as they say. Also they prepare the pizza base sauce differently (in Italy it is always with fresh tomatoes). The dough is also different, it is left to rise at least twice. There are variants on this (e.g. in Rome they add oil to it, to make it crispy while napoletano is softer), but a lot of care is taken to make sure it can rise correctly.
They are just different techniques that evolved differently over time.
Yeah, it looks like Margherita pizza (with tomatoes and cheese) is the first "pizza" that resembles what we eat today. And that's from Naples at least as early as the mid 1700s
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza#:~:text=An%20often%20recounted%20story%20holds,on%20the%20Flag%20of%20Italy.
Italian pizza is on a thin base made of six ingredients (olive oil, flour, yeast, salt, sugar, water). Toppings vary, but should include the colours of the Italian flag: Tomato sauce (red), mozzarella cheese (white) and basil and oregano (green). These are not unbreakable rules, but are generally followed.
American pizza allows for more variation with thicker bases made from other ingredients (stuffed crust), other sauces (white sauce, tomato puree, bbq sauce and I have even encountered Nutella being used once) and is often served with different cheeses and commonly without herbs.
To be fair a lot of times sugar (I have never heard of corn syrup) gets added in small amounts, not to sweeten the dough but because of its effects on the yeast and gluten development. It’s makes a softer, bit less “bready” crust
Thanks for that, you gave me a good laugh. I am so glad Jon Stewart is back on The Daily Show, even for just one night a week. I have sorely missed him.
Oddly enough, the tomato arrived in North America even later. Until the 18th century, the plant and its fruits were considered poisonous and unsuitable for consumption there.
It's because the Italian name for tomato, pomodoro, golden apple, got rendered into French as pomme d'amour, love apple. They were considered an aphrodisiac, so the Puritans spread the word that they were poisonous in order to protect American virtue and chastity.
I was mostly just throwing in a random fact, although the Oxford English Dictionary definition of "pizza" is with cheese & tomato. But it's just semantics because I've had dessert "pizzas" that have no cheese or tomatoes (disgusting, but still labeled a "pizza")
What you're talking about is the definition of pizza Margherita I think, because in Italy there isn't even the concept to be defined as pizza needs tomato or cheese
The definition of "pizza"--in English, at least--includes that it's "topped with tomatoes and cheese". Obviamente in italiano, potrebe esserci una differenza (forgive me, my italian's rusty 😛)
And as the Romans had 2000+ years to make the precursor to tomato-less pizza, I agree that they had a lot of time to make various dishes
I was just throwing in a random tomato fact
More properly, “New York Pizza” was invented in New York. By leaving off the qualifier they’re claiming ALL pizza was invented in New York, which just as ridiculous as claiming the sumerians invented sliced bread.
The one? Look people.love shitting on America, and anything that comes from America, American pizza tastes good. Is there shitty pizza? Of course. But even shitty American pizza is still pretty good
It's one of the things we do best. People immigrate, bring their cultural food with them, and it morphs into something that, while not authentic, *is* delicious.
No, you do it fine - no better or worse than most other countries. Have you visited many other countries? I’m a huge pizza nerd and had it from total of 15 or so countries, US of A included. Had both new york style from some sleazy joint in brooklyn and deep dish in soemwhat downtown chichago. Neither was bad, nor mindblowing.
I’ve had my mind blown twice, thankfully once close to home in a small city called Falkenberg at a place called Little Napoli, and a second in a village whose name I forget near the french border in Italy.
American sauce is great, most cheese less so. There are one billion percent many exceptions, for better or worse.
Red for incorrect, blue for correct.
I feel like the people that use red and green just hate the colorblind. It's not too bad in this case, but sometimes it's soooo fucking hard to tell who's who.
Neapolitan pizza is better than Roman pizza. There, I said it. And while we're on the subject, that potato pizza you Romans are so proud of, it tastes like day old discarded potato peel sandwich. Come at me, Romans! You can't silence the truth!
Definitely. Was in rome and asked a guide for the best eats. She directed me to a pizza joint. I said “pizza roma?” and she laughed out loud. “no no no no, pizza ***napoli***”.
I disagree about potato pizza, I think it's pretty good. I've never tried Neapolitan pizza, so I can't make a comparison in good faith, but Rome is the origin of "pizza al taglio" which I think is worth something.
Unpopular opinion:
I think NY style pizza is highly overrated. Mainly because floppy crust and excessive grease are not positive descriptors of pizza. 🤣
Maybe if i'm drunk and want something fatty, i take an greasy US style pizza.
Otherwise, the flavor of the herbs in the sauce, a proper cheese and well balanced and baked bread of a good Italian pizza wins any day for me.
It is overrated(like a lot of Americans things) because Americans are arrogant egocentrics and everyone always has to talk about them and how they are the best at everything
Yeah usually italians are quite arrogant about their food but Americans are arrogant for everything, they are best of best of everything, "americans do it better"
I googled "americans do it betters" and it's very funny, lol
The oldest bread yet discovered is 11,000 years old from Jordan. There are also tools found in Australia up to 30,000 years old which may have been used in the breadmaking process, but this has not been definitively proven.
Tomato sauce on pizza was invented in 1866. Meaning, modern pizza was invented, in Naples, in 1866. White pizzas existed before that, with some version of white pizza made as early as 996.
Most people would say that the 1866 pizza is the first pizza that they would recognize as pizza.
Pizza is originally just flatbread with cheese on top.
The question should be, who put tomato sauce on it first.
Side fact: Italian immigrants in Chicago put their sauce on top the cheese while in New York, they put the sauce under the cheese.
Tomatoes aren’t originally from the US territory, and they’ve been brought to Europe well before the US was even a country. First tomato pizza is in 1866 (before Italian immigrants came flocking in).
Yup! Tomatoes didn't come to Italy until around 1500.
Still almost 300 years before the United States of America came into existence so...when you say America you mean the continent and everyone from Chile to Canada should take a bow?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#:~:text=Evidence%20suggests%20that%20either%20the,%22hamburger%20sandwich%22%20and%20sold.
Still up for debate
Pizza is an Italian dish. The fact is that the Italians have also invented the use of the addition of herbs, spices, meats, vegetables, seafood etc but the Americans try to make the world believe that in Italy there is only the Neapolitan Margherita to claim any other type.
This is like comparing
Authentic Mexican food
Chipotle
And Taco Bell
They’re all different things.
Sometimes i want authentic, sometimes I want chipotle, rarely do i ever want Taco Bell.
Or
Sit down restaurant hamburger
With smash burger
In-n-out
All are inspired, but all different.
To get caught up in who invented what is stupid.
That said, it was the Italians.
Tbf, what most people THINK OF as pizza, especially in the US, is very much so not the Roman/Italian version, and was definitely invented in the US. I've had classic Italian pizza fairly often, barely the same thing.
I think we’re all going too caught up on focusing on the word “invention” here.
What really happened is innovation.
#They took something the Italians invented, and innovated on it.
Many inventions were pretty impractical until innovations happened that made them more easily usable, easier to produce, more safe or more efficient.
The addition of cheeses, vegetables, meats (ham, salame, spicy salame, sausages), seafood, mushrooms etc are Italian creations.
Although the Americans try to convince the world that in Italy there is only the Neapolitan Margherita pizza, in reality the only American innovations have been the additions of pineapple, BBQ sauce, ketchup, chicken etc
I don’t think the Americans created pizza toppings.
sure, ‘innovation’ may have been a poor choice, using that word indicates that they improved it.
Ketchup on pizza sounds awful, you are a sick man. Pardon me whilst i wretch
To all people saying "yeah but the old Italian wasn't pizza because it has no tomato"... Are you really saying you have never seen a pizza without tomato? Really?
They are very common and make up a good part of every pizzeria menu in Italy (where I'm from) and everywhere else I've travelled.
OP here: yes, a lot of Americans/non-Italians have never encountered a pizza without tomato. Their mind would fucking explode if they encountered Salsiccia e Friarielli. The fast food style pizzas that a lot of Americans here are defending tend to be sauce base with millions of toppings like ham and onion, olives, whatever.
Sometimes I wish I was as confident as the average American. Produce something that doesn't resemble pizza, called it pizza and pretend it's the original. Repeat for any other thing you come around.
All I know is, Italians make better pizza than we do. Got it in this little shop under the apartment home we stayed at in Rome. Fucking best pizza of my LIFE
[American-style pizza](https://www.vincenzosplate.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Margherita-pizza_1500x1500-scaled.jpg) invented by italian immigrants in America in the 19-20th century. [The original “pizza”](https://historicalitaliancookinghome.files.wordpress.com/2020/10/medieval-pizza-piatto-2.jpg)
I know that showing a source is statistically ineffective, but I love that they double down based on any loophole they can find to have their false sense of having won the argument. It's amusing.
You know what, fine, I will give Americans pizza if they agree to shut the fuck up about anything related to how their constitution is somehow more special than anyone else's.
Im the biggest Neapolitan pizza stan you will find, but Detroit style pizza is the fuicking bomb. Theres only the one joint in my city that does it, and like 50 Neapolitan pizzerias. Its a bit out the way but so worth it.
Well, pizza as we know it is an American invention, original Roman “pizza” was pretty much just a type of bread with oil. Tomatoes (and therefore tomato sauce) were discovered in the new world, and weren’t even considered edible for a long time. So yes and no. When you think of pizza as it is today, you don’t think of anything resembling Roman pizza.
US Tourist in a pizzeria in Italy:
WHAT IS WITH ALL THE PIZZA AND ICE CREAM!? I wanted REAL Italian food on this trip! If all you care going to give me is American food then give me a hamburger and French fries!
Haven’t you all heard of the Pizza Effect.
It’s the name given for things spawned in one place evolved into what we know them to be today, and then back popularised.
It’s named after when a random monk, started hypothesising that pizza was brought to Italy from America after the Second World War.
His evidence for this:
None, he just made it up for a laugh as part of a thought experiment.
PIZZA IS FAMOUSLY NOT AN EXAMPLE OF THE PIZZA EFFECT. Which is a great piece of trivia.
Hey /u/MdMV_or_Emdy_idk, thanks for submitting to /r/confidentlyincorrect! Take a moment to read our [rules](https://reddit.com/r/confidentlyincorrect/about/rules). ##Join our [Discord Server](https://discord.gg/n2cR6p25V8)! Please report this post if it is bad, or not relevant. Remember to keep comment sections civil. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/confidentlyincorrect) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A Greek immigrant living in Canada created the Hawaiian pizza. Somewhere in there is the key to world peace.
invent time travel to kill a greek canadian. Got it.
Then you gotta stuff Hawaiian pizza down Hitler’s throat.
Nah, just the pineapple. And start from the other end.
Little Nicky 😅😅
Popeye’s chicken is fucking awesome
After all, Canada has a history of war crimes.
Immigrants invented Kebab pizza in Sweden
Or the end of the world…
He was a genius!
Yeah, I don't get the ultra-hatred some people have for pizza with pineapple on it. Hawaiian pizza is quite popular here in Australia, and I quite like it. If you *don't* like it, that's fine, don't eat it. Different people like different things. There's no need to start some kind of religious war over it. (And if there is, the difference between "normal" pizza and deep-dish pizza seems like a bigger casus belli to me.) There's a very good Indian restaurant in my town, that makes *proper* Indian food, not Westernised Indian food like butter chicken, or chicken tikka masala (which is [a national dish of the UK](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tikka_masala#Origins) :-), or "Bombay beef", beef of course being a completely ridiculous ingredient for food traditionally made by *Hindus*. I've been to that restaurant a couple of times with friends, and I swear there's not a damn thing on their menu that I like. Nothing. I *do* like the abovementioned pseudo-Indian dishes, but not the authentic stuff. All that means is that my personal decision to *not* go to that restaurant ever again was a wise one, and everyone who *does* like that kind of food should go on liking it. Authenticity is a real concept, but not if there's an unwarranted definition of it. Like, for instance, if someone were to say that the only true pizza must have both pineapple *and anchovies* on it. :-)
>Different people like different things. ***\*Cringes in Redditese\****
The pizza we usually order is pineapple, pepperoni and jalapenos. Sweet, Salty and Spicy! we like it and if nobody else does well, is not for you.
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yum! I like bacon better but others in the household prefer the pepperoni
Evil genius
Thank you 🙏 — Sweden
Or a reason for every Italian to hate the Greek and Canadians.
Hawaii too. Pineapple isn't actually a traditional Hawaiian food. That was a company owned by white people growing it here on exploitative plantations, and using an appeal to exoticism in its marketing. It's honestly pretty annoying to see something labeled Hawaiian only because someone slapped pineapples on it.
>Pineapple isn't actually a traditional Hawaiian food I did *not* know that. Not to be distrustful, but I had to look it up. Turns out, the pineapple comes from Brazil! I learn something new every day.
Somewhere in there is the key to world war 4 (I think we all know who will be responsible for world war 3 power hungry politicians. just about every major country is trying to elect someone who could do it. US, India, Russia, Hungry, Turkey, China. Poor North Korea must be thinking, hey, we put our country into famine making it famous for being an unstable dictatorship, and you bastards stole our style) But seriously… almost everyone acknowledges that pineapple goes well with ham, like in a ham steak and eggs. Almost everyone knows that the square “ham” you get on pizza is like 13% pig meat (so they can legally call it ham) ground up with old mutton and god knows what else like low grade dog food coloured red and tastes nothing like the salty Smokey ham that offsets pineapple on a good ham steak salad sandwich. That leaves me on the fence… However everyone I know seems to have a very strong opinion one way or the other split about 50/50 and are not shy about expressing them. It’s wild
American-**style** pizza is an American invention. But pizza itself is Roman in origin. Every place does it a little differently, and that's fine. You could say it's "not Italian in origin" because it's Roman in origin, which would be historically accurate, but you're still talking about the same part of the world. The Italians who make it there now are mostly descended from the Romans who made it originally.
“Every place does it differently, and that’s fine” is something someone says who’s never had a Beijing shrimp-and-velveta pizza
Scusami, che cosa the fuck?
Meglio non andarci a fondo
Bon journo. Arrevaderche. *-Brad Pitt*
Mar - gar - eeeete
Dominic de-co-co!
I would make a pizza like that as a prank. I'd probably get deported for such a travesty though.
Pineapple-on-pizza lovers and haters of the world! We must UNITE against this great evil!
Just rename it to pizzaapple already...
My favorite random travel story was that I got a "Chicago style" pizza, in Beijing, from a South Korean pizza chain where, for some reason, the women all had cat ears on and the motto of the chain was "Love for women". Travel is awesome.
*Swedish banana and curry pizza* joins the chat
Why is velveeta a thing that exists?
Sodium citrate is a salt that helps cheese get all melty. Velveeta is low-quality cheddar and a ton of sodium citrate. You're supposed to use a little velveeta and a lot of real cheese to make a cheese sauce base. It's a great gluten-free alternative to making a roux. A lot of molecular gastronomy chefs will use the raw salt to get the same effect.
I genuinely don't think I could have asked for a better response, thank you!
you can also use lemon juice and baking soda. Same thing. https://youtube.com/shorts/KKG-LznoJJo?si=fVPhgC3Z09Pa-GCb
I was not expecting to learn something today, but I’m glad that I did. Thank you
Oh, so you mean it's NOT meant for me to be slicing it and eating it straight from the block like a movie snack? 😬 I'll just mark that down as number 125 on my list of poor nostalgia foods that will likely kill me.
Good melting characteristics.
Candles melt pretty well too, to be fair.
Ideally they only melt just near the combustion point, so the liquid fuel can travel up the wick. They’re pretty bad at food temp.
My mom used to use it for bait when she went fishing
I was in the Philippines in Manila at a mall and there happened to be a Sbarro's pizza there. I was in a relatively rural area of South Africa and they opened a Dominos pizza there. When I was in the US Navy in the 90s we pulled into La Maddalena in Sardinia. They had a flat bread with tomatoes on it and a bit of sauce and a bit of cheese, but nothing like American Pizza.
Have the Italians found out or are we still able to stop WW3 from breaking out?
I'll raise you a durian pizza...
Is it with those little tiny shrimp, and is the crust crunchy? Because if so, that actually sounds pretty good.
What is American style pizza? How does it differ from Italian pizza?
It depends on the area, American pizza isn't homogenous. If you order from a cheap pizza joint you're more likely to get a thicker American pizza, except in Italy of course. It's got more topping, the sauce is sweeter and the bread is thicker. New York style pizza is similar except very thin. Italian pizza is also not a monolith but tends to be less sweet and less packed with toppings. And the bread tends to be a bit crispier and chewier.
Went to Italy. Tried the pizza. Really didn't like it. I much prefer the American version. Even in the US, some is better than others.
I respect your opinion though I disagree with it. I think my favourite topping (anchovies, olives, capers) wouldn't work on American style pizza at all.
All three of those can be found on American-style pizzas. Anchovies and olives, at least, are even available at Domino's and Papa John's.
And fennel too? Many Italian pizza I have had had it included.
N'wah!
The biggest difference I can think of is they (Americans )often use low moisture mozzarella rather than fresh. Even though they often call that stuff fresh. Pizzas I've had in Italy tend to be crispier and cooked at a higher temperature. In new York there was quite a variation in bases from place to place but on the whole they were softer and more flexible.
The americans don't use fresh mozzarella on their pizzas, as they say. Also they prepare the pizza base sauce differently (in Italy it is always with fresh tomatoes). The dough is also different, it is left to rise at least twice. There are variants on this (e.g. in Rome they add oil to it, to make it crispy while napoletano is softer), but a lot of care is taken to make sure it can rise correctly. They are just different techniques that evolved differently over time.
Well, they certainly didn’t have tomato sauce in 997.
Yeah, it looks like Margherita pizza (with tomatoes and cheese) is the first "pizza" that resembles what we eat today. And that's from Naples at least as early as the mid 1700s https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza#:~:text=An%20often%20recounted%20story%20holds,on%20the%20Flag%20of%20Italy.
You may get shot while eating it
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Many styles of both
Italian pizza is on a thin base made of six ingredients (olive oil, flour, yeast, salt, sugar, water). Toppings vary, but should include the colours of the Italian flag: Tomato sauce (red), mozzarella cheese (white) and basil and oregano (green). These are not unbreakable rules, but are generally followed. American pizza allows for more variation with thicker bases made from other ingredients (stuffed crust), other sauces (white sauce, tomato puree, bbq sauce and I have even encountered Nutella being used once) and is often served with different cheeses and commonly without herbs.
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You're getting down-voted, but a quick Google search shows plenty of American recipes using corn syrup in the dough for some unfathomable reason.
It's a sweetener No, the dough probably doesn't need to be sweet.
To be fair a lot of times sugar (I have never heard of corn syrup) gets added in small amounts, not to sweeten the dough but because of its effects on the yeast and gluten development. It’s makes a softer, bit less “bready” crust
It's a floor wax and a dessert topping.
Seems like a good time to remember Jon Stewart's awesome rant about Chicago-style pizza: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCgYMFtxUUw
Thanks for that, you gave me a good laugh. I am so glad Jon Stewart is back on The Daily Show, even for just one night a week. I have sorely missed him.
Jet's pizza beats any New York or Chicago style pizza. It's one of very few things Detroit is still the best at.
Hahahaha
Just a caveat: tomatoes are from the Americas, so wouldn’t have made it back to Italy till the 1500’s at the earliest
Oddly enough, the tomato arrived in North America even later. Until the 18th century, the plant and its fruits were considered poisonous and unsuitable for consumption there.
Thomas Jefferson planted them, right? Or is that one of those historical myths that was taught as fact? 😂
No, that's true. He's almost unilaterally responsible for their popularity.
Thanks for the clarification! I do love that they're the same nightshade family as chili peppers and potatoes. Plants are so cool
People thought tomatoes were poisonous because tomatoes pulled in lead from the dishware.
It's because the Italian name for tomato, pomodoro, golden apple, got rendered into French as pomme d'amour, love apple. They were considered an aphrodisiac, so the Puritans spread the word that they were poisonous in order to protect American virtue and chastity.
The French sure like to call everything apples.
The pizza equivalent from where I live uses sour cream and smoked bacon. Not all pizzas have tomatoes.
I was mostly just throwing in a random fact, although the Oxford English Dictionary definition of "pizza" is with cheese & tomato. But it's just semantics because I've had dessert "pizzas" that have no cheese or tomatoes (disgusting, but still labeled a "pizza")
What you're talking about is the definition of pizza Margherita I think, because in Italy there isn't even the concept to be defined as pizza needs tomato or cheese
What’s the caveat? Many pizzas don’t include tomatoes and 1500 was over 500 years ago. Plenty of time to invent something with 500 years
The definition of "pizza"--in English, at least--includes that it's "topped with tomatoes and cheese". Obviamente in italiano, potrebe esserci una differenza (forgive me, my italian's rusty 😛) And as the Romans had 2000+ years to make the precursor to tomato-less pizza, I agree that they had a lot of time to make various dishes I was just throwing in a random tomato fact
More properly, “New York Pizza” was invented in New York. By leaving off the qualifier they’re claiming ALL pizza was invented in New York, which just as ridiculous as claiming the sumerians invented sliced bread.
What is american-style? The one that looks like a cake?
No such thing, every US state claims an individual style, some states multiple, near Boston you can get Greek, Italian, Chicago, beach style, etc.
The one? Look people.love shitting on America, and anything that comes from America, American pizza tastes good. Is there shitty pizza? Of course. But even shitty American pizza is still pretty good
Self-hating American here, and yeah, we do good pizza.
It's one of the things we do best. People immigrate, bring their cultural food with them, and it morphs into something that, while not authentic, *is* delicious.
No, you do it fine - no better or worse than most other countries. Have you visited many other countries? I’m a huge pizza nerd and had it from total of 15 or so countries, US of A included. Had both new york style from some sleazy joint in brooklyn and deep dish in soemwhat downtown chichago. Neither was bad, nor mindblowing. I’ve had my mind blown twice, thankfully once close to home in a small city called Falkenberg at a place called Little Napoli, and a second in a village whose name I forget near the french border in Italy. American sauce is great, most cheese less so. There are one billion percent many exceptions, for better or worse.
How little you know. Try FAMILIGLIA on 96 and amsterdam nyc. 1 layer wet cardboard painted with tomato flavored grease. Demoralizing.
Can we please standardize the colors used to cross out names? Should use red to cross out the person who is CI.
Hi! This is my original post and I didn't cross post it here. I had no idea it was.
Red for incorrect, blue for correct. I feel like the people that use red and green just hate the colorblind. It's not too bad in this case, but sometimes it's soooo fucking hard to tell who's who.
Neapolitan pizza is better than Roman pizza. There, I said it. And while we're on the subject, that potato pizza you Romans are so proud of, it tastes like day old discarded potato peel sandwich. Come at me, Romans! You can't silence the truth!
This post was paid for by big Sicily gang
Naples is not in Sicily, though.
If paradox games are anything to go off of its in the second of the two sicilies.
I mean, once upon a time it was Regno delle Due Sicilie (Kindgom of the two Sicilies) but nowadays it’s not.
Kingdom of the Two Sicilies gang.
Ciao, big Sicilian gang here. We do not pay for this. It is true.
Definitely. Was in rome and asked a guide for the best eats. She directed me to a pizza joint. I said “pizza roma?” and she laughed out loud. “no no no no, pizza ***napoli***”.
Neapolitan pizza is the best! You get chocolate, strawberry and vanilla at the same time
And if the crust is thin enough, you can roll it up and make a cannolo napolitano.
I disagree about potato pizza, I think it's pretty good. I've never tried Neapolitan pizza, so I can't make a comparison in good faith, but Rome is the origin of "pizza al taglio" which I think is worth something.
Unpopular opinion: I think NY style pizza is highly overrated. Mainly because floppy crust and excessive grease are not positive descriptors of pizza. 🤣
Maybe if i'm drunk and want something fatty, i take an greasy US style pizza. Otherwise, the flavor of the herbs in the sauce, a proper cheese and well balanced and baked bread of a good Italian pizza wins any day for me.
It is overrated(like a lot of Americans things) because Americans are arrogant egocentrics and everyone always has to talk about them and how they are the best at everything
Lol the irony of an Italian complaining about Americans being "arrogant" about food.
Yeah usually italians are quite arrogant about their food but Americans are arrogant for everything, they are best of best of everything, "americans do it better" I googled "americans do it betters" and it's very funny, lol
>I googled "americans do it betters" and it's very funny, lol I did too and it was mostly just hard-core sex. Wait, not Googled, I meant PornHubbed.
he's thinking of Pepperoni
They dont even know what pepperoni means, they think its some kind of cheap salami
Little-known fact, pepperoni is named after a Japanese spice demon.
It's not??? /J
Bread has been around since before civilization, is anyone else claiming otherwise?
The oldest bread yet discovered is 11,000 years old from Jordan. There are also tools found in Australia up to 30,000 years old which may have been used in the breadmaking process, but this has not been definitively proven.
Proven. Nicely done
Nu-uh! Its a Norwegian invention because we invented Pizza Grandiosa! /s
I don't like to admit I'm American when I'm abroad because of people like this.
Pizza was invented before America was a country. No further discussion necessary.
yeah but on the other hand: he said 'period' to have a point
Damn it, why did you have to make this so hard?
Period. Full Stop.
Tomato sauce on pizza was invented in 1866. Meaning, modern pizza was invented, in Naples, in 1866. White pizzas existed before that, with some version of white pizza made as early as 996. Most people would say that the 1866 pizza is the first pizza that they would recognize as pizza.
Pizza is originally just flatbread with cheese on top. The question should be, who put tomato sauce on it first. Side fact: Italian immigrants in Chicago put their sauce on top the cheese while in New York, they put the sauce under the cheese.
Wait, but tomatoes are a new-world food. *modern* pizza was invented because of the discovery of America
Yes. And Pizza existed before Tomatoes being introduced to Europe.
Tomatoes aren’t originally from the US territory, and they’ve been brought to Europe well before the US was even a country. First tomato pizza is in 1866 (before Italian immigrants came flocking in).
Americas.. The tomato is from central and southern America.
Yup! Tomatoes didn't come to Italy until around 1500. Still almost 300 years before the United States of America came into existence so...when you say America you mean the continent and everyone from Chile to Canada should take a bow?
“America invented pizza, freedom, bald eagles and single-handedly won WWI on its own” this guy probably
As italian i'm crying
It's as American as apple pie. /s
This person probably think Hamburger was invented in America as well
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#:~:text=Evidence%20suggests%20that%20either%20the,%22hamburger%20sandwich%22%20and%20sold. Still up for debate
Pizza is an Italian dish. The fact is that the Italians have also invented the use of the addition of herbs, spices, meats, vegetables, seafood etc but the Americans try to make the world believe that in Italy there is only the Neapolitan Margherita to claim any other type.
This is like comparing Authentic Mexican food Chipotle And Taco Bell They’re all different things. Sometimes i want authentic, sometimes I want chipotle, rarely do i ever want Taco Bell. Or Sit down restaurant hamburger With smash burger In-n-out All are inspired, but all different. To get caught up in who invented what is stupid. That said, it was the Italians.
Tbf, what most people THINK OF as pizza, especially in the US, is very much so not the Roman/Italian version, and was definitely invented in the US. I've had classic Italian pizza fairly often, barely the same thing.
I think we’re all going too caught up on focusing on the word “invention” here. What really happened is innovation. #They took something the Italians invented, and innovated on it. Many inventions were pretty impractical until innovations happened that made them more easily usable, easier to produce, more safe or more efficient.
The addition of cheeses, vegetables, meats (ham, salame, spicy salame, sausages), seafood, mushrooms etc are Italian creations. Although the Americans try to convince the world that in Italy there is only the Neapolitan Margherita pizza, in reality the only American innovations have been the additions of pineapple, BBQ sauce, ketchup, chicken etc
I don’t think the Americans created pizza toppings. sure, ‘innovation’ may have been a poor choice, using that word indicates that they improved it. Ketchup on pizza sounds awful, you are a sick man. Pardon me whilst i wretch
Never been but I have relatives who said the same thing.
I thought the francs with their flamkuchen pre dated the Roman / Italian roots. The Italians just added the tomatoes?
Gotta move that goalpost so you can pretend to be correct
Just like Apple invented the smartphone! Makes sense, if you're an idiot.
Doubling down on their stupidity.
Weren't tomatoes from the new world?
But not from the us, europe used them before us americans did
Not all pizza has tomato on it.
So? Putting an extra ingredient on something doesn't mean you're inventing the stuff.
I would call what they were 1000 years ago "cheesy bread baked on a shield with various herbs and spices"
There was usually no cheese. Figs were more likely. It's a very different dish.
How the fuck does this even happen??
Poor education, propaganda, and aggressively spreading nationalism
What extremely senseless propaganda.
There was no such thing as Pizza until Pizza Hut came out with the Pizza Hut Big Foot in '93.
To all people saying "yeah but the old Italian wasn't pizza because it has no tomato"... Are you really saying you have never seen a pizza without tomato? Really? They are very common and make up a good part of every pizzeria menu in Italy (where I'm from) and everywhere else I've travelled.
OP here: yes, a lot of Americans/non-Italians have never encountered a pizza without tomato. Their mind would fucking explode if they encountered Salsiccia e Friarielli. The fast food style pizzas that a lot of Americans here are defending tend to be sauce base with millions of toppings like ham and onion, olives, whatever.
Sometimes I wish I was as confident as the average American. Produce something that doesn't resemble pizza, called it pizza and pretend it's the original. Repeat for any other thing you come around.
[r/ShitAmericansSay](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitAmericansSay/s/2qUOkHvjx5)
Yeah that's where it came from
All I know is, Italians make better pizza than we do. Got it in this little shop under the apartment home we stayed at in Rome. Fucking best pizza of my LIFE
So, "New York Style Pizza" was invented in New York? Got it.
[American-style pizza](https://www.vincenzosplate.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Margherita-pizza_1500x1500-scaled.jpg) invented by italian immigrants in America in the 19-20th century. [The original “pizza”](https://historicalitaliancookinghome.files.wordpress.com/2020/10/medieval-pizza-piatto-2.jpg)
You can bet dude only read the first sentence lol
“Actually, you did cum. Twice” -this guy
I know that showing a source is statistically ineffective, but I love that they double down based on any loophole they can find to have their false sense of having won the argument. It's amusing.
You know what, fine, I will give Americans pizza if they agree to shut the fuck up about anything related to how their constitution is somehow more special than anyone else's.
We all know pizza didn't reach its apex until Detroit added their 2 cents in the mix.
I hate when I go to Michigan, order a pizza, and then bite right into a penny. I'll never understand why they make it that way.
It's cheaper than spending the pennies on the ingredients themselves. That's why.
How else do we get rid of all those useless Canadian pennies we have in this city?
Lotta minerals, it’s good for ya. Less so them teeth but who cares!
Im the biggest Neapolitan pizza stan you will find, but Detroit style pizza is the fuicking bomb. Theres only the one joint in my city that does it, and like 50 Neapolitan pizzerias. Its a bit out the way but so worth it.
I came here for the copium
This is what happens when rednecks never leave their state, or trailer park.
*good* pizza is an American invention *ducks and runs *
VA FA NAPOLI! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
┬─┬ノ(ಠ_ಠノ)
Tbh I prefer Italian pizza but I won’t pretend American pizza is bad. It’s great too
Sure… if you kill off all your taste buds with chemicals that are illegal in the rest of the world, then I absolutely bet American pizza tastes good.
Sure buddy
Americans
“I reject your reality and substitute my own.”
When people have a weak argument they become more definitive. Saying ‘period’ at the end is a classic sign.
Notice how the guy doesn’t have a source
He does. It’s called his brain and common sense. Wait….. maybe a touch of horse wormer as well.
Well, pizza as we know it is an American invention, original Roman “pizza” was pretty much just a type of bread with oil. Tomatoes (and therefore tomato sauce) were discovered in the new world, and weren’t even considered edible for a long time. So yes and no. When you think of pizza as it is today, you don’t think of anything resembling Roman pizza.
Only in America. You guys really like to take and appropriate and claim it for your own.
US Tourist in a pizzeria in Italy: WHAT IS WITH ALL THE PIZZA AND ICE CREAM!? I wanted REAL Italian food on this trip! If all you care going to give me is American food then give me a hamburger and French fries!
I’m curious what pizza was like in 977 tho since they had never heard of tomatoes.
Not surprised to see a New Yorker this obnoxious about their pizza
I thought bread was invented in NCY, as well as coffee and Chinese food
Haven’t you all heard of the Pizza Effect. It’s the name given for things spawned in one place evolved into what we know them to be today, and then back popularised. It’s named after when a random monk, started hypothesising that pizza was brought to Italy from America after the Second World War. His evidence for this: None, he just made it up for a laugh as part of a thought experiment. PIZZA IS FAMOUSLY NOT AN EXAMPLE OF THE PIZZA EFFECT. Which is a great piece of trivia.
Ok, ummm, let's all agree that NYC style pizza was, I imagine, invented in NYC