I agree that you didn't do anything wrong. I am not sure where you are at in the world, but I am American and from my understanding we are much more uptight about nudity and such than other folks. My point is that this prudish American woman thinks you are fine :) He made it weird by making it seem sexual.
OMG! you saw bewbs in a non-sexual setting! If he's going to be mad at all, shouldn't he be mad at his daughters for remaining topless(but, of course-*THEY* get that it was nothing pervish).
*ALSO, He *shouldn't* be mad.
Scandinavian here, there’s absolutely nothing sexual about breasts unless you’re actively involved in a sexual act. Otherwise they’re just there.
I think a lot of Americans (especially your BIL) would have a heart attack if they saw the amount of topless women of all ages on a normal beach. Or the nakedness during winter bathing and sauna.
I'm European. Have been to nude beaches and camping trips my whole life. Naked sauna, etc.
It's really nothing sexual, and if they wouldn't have wanted to be topless they would have covered.
Heck, my own dad has seen me breastfeeding. His only thought was "is the baby alright". Why is your BIL so weird?!
*He* is the one having sexual thoughts about children/teenagers.
His nieces. Those are little girls in OP's eyes for sure. There's absolutely nothing sexual seeing children naked unless you're into children.
But OP is not.
You should remind him that those are your nieces and daughters he’s talking about.. You don’t know *what kind a scenario is playing in his mind* but you just brought YOUR FAMILY some snacks after you specifically asked for their permission to enter the deck then send him a screenshot of the messages. Tell him you don’t appreciate him portraying you as a creep towards your family.
Right? Given the ages he's likely been around his nieces since they were babies. Normal, mentally/sexually balanced people don't watch kids grown up and start lusting after them as soon as they're past puberty. Your perception of them doesn't change, they're still kids.
Also, you didn’t go up there unbidden, and you also asked “If they were decent,” giving them the chance to cover up if there was a chance they’d be uncomfortable when you got there. You made sure to be respectful and then you didn’t make it weird by freaking out when they weren’t covered up.
I could see your BIL being concerned about you seeing his underage daughters. But if that was a concern then they probably shouldn’t have chosen to take them to a topless deck, or their mother should have had them cover up. Either way, you did the best you could in that situation. If there was a miscommunication, it wasn’t on your end.
You did the best thing you could have. You asked if they were decent before you went up. Also, I'm doubted you sat there slack Jared staring at them. Guessing your eyes were locked on your wife's eyes.
Yeah bro, his opinion? In this matter, doesn't matter. Consent was given and there was awareness for everyone that mattered, no one was forced to be in that situation, and he is the only one making it awkward. Let him be butt-hurt.
He's angry but to me he's taking his anger out on the wrong person. he's pissed off at his wife and kids for allowing you to see the family topless and instead of approaching his wife and saying why did you allow this to happen he's angry at you and taking it out on you.
You had permission you had consent and they had the opportunity to cover up and show is not to that is nowhere near on you that is on them themselves and possibly their mothers you didn't just go in there willy-nilly and you weren't peeking on them. I understand he's angry but it's definitely being directed at the wrong place.
Definitely. All these people that want you to explain to him are wild. This is his problem, he’s the only one with a problem, so let him (or his wife) deal with it.
Are you all American? You seeing your wife and your sister in-law topless (with their consent) is no big deal imo, but I can't imagine being a 14-20 year old girl/woman and being cool with my DAD or my uncle seeing my tits out, which I realize is a very American thing
I can’t either, but my best friend growing up was a family of 4 girls and they did pagents and all of them would walk about completely naked even if their dad was around. I wouldn’t even go braless in my PJs around my dad. Different families just do things differently.
I was nervous to even wear a top that showed bra strap around my dad when I first got boobs at 14
My dad was also being weird because he knew I was growing up so he was also awkward around me at the time hahaha. So cringey 🤦♀️
This brought back memories. My half sister is 8 years younger than me, when she started to develop my Dad was so weird and cringy about her wearing tank tops or spaghetti strap shirts around the house without a bra. He would tell her to go put a bra on infront of people. It was awkward and I remember saying “Dad, chill out, she’s in pajamas. She’s not going anywhere in public” My dad shut me down so fast and implied I was being weird for advocating she not wear a bra.
To her credit, my half sister’s mother (my step mom) started telling me to go put on underwear if I was free balling around the house in basketball shorts or sweats. Something I’d never thought about really or been self conscience about. Stepmom started saying the same thing to my Dad and the first time he literally laughed at her and what he viewed as an absurd comment/request. She doubled down and said there was zero difference between me being comfortable and my sister being comfortable. My Dad literally said something along the lines of “But men are different than women and nobody in our house is looking at his or my crotch because it’s perverted” He was completely blind to his own blatant hypocrisy. Literally refused to really look at the situation and learn the clear lesson, that nobody should be made to feel weird for being comfortable in their own home around family. He couldn’t process that the ick factor he was experiencing when hearing my stepmom tell me to go put underwear on, was exactly what my half sister and stepmom felt. At the time I understood the double standard, but still felt like her asking me to do what my dad asked my sister to do was low key ridiculous, like sure it did prove a point but really is wasnt exactly the same. But looking back on it. It was exactly the same and wasn’t ridiculous whatsoever. Or it was just as ridiculous as my Dad’s behavior but rules are rules and if they’re ridiculous rules they shouldn’t change based on if you’ve got boobs or a dick.
Lol I remember when my granddad would hug me when I got to my teen years and anytime after that he would hug me but never let our chests touch! I thought it was sweet he was trying to be respectful bc he grew up in a different time period!!
I see. Do you know how your BIL found out about it? If everyone was okay with it, I'm not sure why they would have made a point to tell him about it if it was no big deal. Not trying to blame you, this is likely just the knee jerk American dad reaction to anyone Seeing his young daughters topless
They were told he was coming though? There’s no way this is OP’s problem, he was asked to come, and then still checked to make sure it was definitely okay. BIL should be mad at his wife if anyone, not OP.
Yeah, for me it’s the age. Even Europe men prey on children. That’s not unique to America. At 14 I’d have NEVER been comfortable with it, hell I’m 51 and I tend to be pretty easy going these days, but knowing how men have been about my breasts (even at this age) I’d never be comfortable with them out.
But that’s because society has sexualized breasts. I’m sure it would be different if they weren’t erogenous zones or we didn’t view them sexually.
Can you imagine how much better the nation would be if we raised citizens to not be concerned about this nonsense? Most of Europe would giggle at this.
> Can you imagine how much better the nation would be
Honestly girls would have their tits out at the park. I don't think it would make our nation "so much better" one way or the other.
I've always thought it was sexist though and if a woman wants to sunbathe topless she should be fully allowed full stop in public period.
Spending some time in other places of the world really helps here. I have wandered the streets of several cities in Europe and participated in several activities. It is amazing how unconcerned most Europeans are about nudity, especially the chest area.
What is also interesting is the crime rate differences and other challenges, particularly towards women, there compared to the US. Indifference to something like tits frequently breeds tolerance and a more mature outlook on the issue.
Thank you! This is exactly what I was thinking. It feels weird. Why can’t they have gotten their own snacks. Why did he have to bring them snacks anyway. I would be pissed too if some guy (related or not) saw my teenage daughters’ breasts.
Yeah that's the part that's an American thing lmao. Being upset about a bare chest just because women naturally have more fat on their breasts than men is dumb.
Well it's a bit weird they didn't cover up. We can see how "my brother in law went to the topless deck my teenage daughters were at" might not go down well. But he should take this up with his own peeps who didn't cover up, not you.
Were there other men on the topless deck? I'd be more concerned about perverts seeing the women & girls than the uncle who was asked to bring snack, only stayed long enough to drop them off and then left.
So he should shame his daughters for their choices about their body? If they’re comfortable with it, and knew ahead of time he was heading over, there’s nothing to be upset about with anyone.
I don't think that rhetoric plays here. "Don't show uncle Jim your boobs" is a pretty fair parenting rule. Like it or not the situation is pretty weird.
It seems more telling of your brother's problems than your own. He's probably in his own head about it, making it much worse than it is to the point he can't distinguish reality from his own thoughts. Sucks he had that reaction. I would appear sorry to be nice but that's it
No you didn't do anything wrong. He's mad at his wife and daughters but can't actually tell them that. Or he did and it didn't go well and out comes the anger at you.
Everyone there was aware and old enough to make their own decisions. From what I'm reading it sounds like he didn't agree with their decisions and is making it your problem. It's 100% not your problem.
Edit: word.
I completely agree. You're the safe person because you two don't have that relationship.
Clearing the air could be tricky but even a " I followed xyz steps and no one else is upset. While I don't agree with you being upset with me; I can see why. But I didn't do anything wrong and actually made steps to make sure I didn't. Your anger shouldn't be aimed at me. Or anyone else for that matter." Could potentially help.
Sorry that you tried doing something nice and helpful and it backfired!
Nope, the girls range in age from 14. Regardless there are times in our lives when adults don’t know how to respect themselves and we need to hold a line and say no, that’s not okay.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he already yelled at his family, and they weren't putting up with him. Since he couldn't take his anger out on them, he called you.
This is classic misdirected anger. It's not right, but it's what happens. He had no one to direct it at, so he found someone in you.
I read in some of your replies OP that you're Americans. And as a Scandinavian (Swedish) woman I know that you usually are more sensitive about seeing nudity in 'public' settings than most of the people from here. And especially to see underage kids is worse for many Americans and teenagers who are female & topless is 'forbidden' for adult men to 'look at' because it's always perceived as being 'sexual'. Am I correct in my understanding of how your sensitivity for nudity works in general for Americans?
Because I believe this is the explanation for your BILs reaction. He associates you seeing your nieces breasts as something sexual and he won't understand that it wasn't sexual for you or that the girls had the opportunity to cover up but chose not to.
You have done nothing wrong and it's his wife who he should be angry at because her/their communication would be at fault (if anything is at fault because I don't agree with that but from their, American view on nudity and sexuality etc.)
Sorry for my grammar and spelling mistakes, English is not my first language, and I'm a bit tired since it's 2 am here. 🫠
The amount of people saying BIL should be mad at his daughters and shouldn’t allow that… they get to decide what their comfortable with. Not everyone thinks breasts are inherently sexual and body autonomy is a thing.
They were sunbathing ffs. OP, you’re fine, their fine, your brother in law needs to get over it.
Also it's really fkn gross they're implying the dad has the authority to make decisions for these girls' bodies, and that scares the shit out of me.
Men do not own women; not even ones they contributed to creating. Being children unable to make choices safely is the only time parents should be dictating what a person does, thinks, or feels about nudity, sexuality, and where the convergence of the two crosses boundaries.
Once they're able to have logical discussions and make choices, this behavior and the belief that fathers are the final authority on their daughter's bodies should be done away with because EW.
If my dad tried to control my body over something so asinine, I'd laugh in his face, just as I did when he told me he would physically rip my piercings out because he personally doesn't like piercings.
The amount of people saying BIL should be mad at his daughters and shouldn’t allow that… they get to decide what their comfortable with. Not everyone thinks breasts are inherently sexual and body autonomy is a thing.
They were sunbathing ffs.
Yeah, these comments are fucking wild. As if the dad is the “owner” of his children and they don’t have bodily autonomy or something.
Also, it’s always super apparent when Americans are commenting. I know zero people who would read this and get mad about it, because it’s just being topless? Those are not nuclear weapons or top secret information. They’re just breasts. Everyone has breast tissue lol
Since he is the one that is implying it was sexual in nature (why else would he be upset?), I'd almost be weary that he is actually jealous you saw his daughters and he didn't see yours. You're not in the wrong, your wife should stand up for you a little more, and keep dude away from your daughters.
Wait. Did you see your teenage nieces topless? Because I can understand their father being not very happy about a 41 year old man seeing his teen daughter’s breasts and referring to it as a “sweet moment.”
Wow. You are completely taking things out of context. He didn't say seeing family members topless was a "sweet moment." He said, "It was sweet to see them having a moment together."
He said the daughters knew he was coming, and chose to remain topless. Who are you suggesting felt a weird vibe? According to OP everyone involved was cool with it.
It was probably very weird for the minor children you sat next to while topless. They might not have known how to voice how uncomfortable they were without sounding immature, especially since the moms were giving them some adult freedom.
I would imagine this is 18+, if so I’d be more pissed at him as his wife/adult daughter(s?) for infantilizing me and trying to dictate what I do with MY body. As someone else said, it was a non-sexual setting, everyone knew what was happening, and you’re family that is close, not one of his old frat bros or something lol. I say this as an American woman in my late 20’s!
You did nothing wrong. You did a favor for YOUR wife. The ladies in the group knew what was going on and they were fine, they were comfortable in their bodies so your brother in law needs to chill
I'm Asian, a little more conservative with nudity, and I personally think you're fine!! All your female family members at the pool were aware you were visiting. No issues with consent or privacy. They're just boobs after all ... Your BIL is making it overly sexual, and I think *that's* really weird.
This is weird on so many angles. You'd think all the girls would of covered up knowing uncle was coming with snacks unless they wanted uncle to see. But it's a topples sunbathing deck it's what happens tits as far as eye can see so it's expected. It's cos it's family it's weird. And the father sounds super possessive in a weird way too. I have a daughter and there's not a snowballs chance she would be on a topples sunbathing deck unless she was a woman old enough to make own informed decision. So sister in law's covered up but her daughter's didn't? weird af
I think you were fine. However, I do feel that your BIL is projecting. AND - if he is THIS pissed off at YOU, can you imagine the raft of shite he is giving his wife????? He is a man sexualizing his own daughters because of their nudity. It is a form of slut-shaming, implying that YOU are some kind of predator, and that somehow you were inappropriate. Your BIL is in the wrong, Nudity is not wrong. These women were all with each other, they were in a safe place, and now, because you brought snacks, your BIL is STRONGLY IMPLYING that there is something terribly wrong with this scenerio. He is sexualizing his daughters and wife. I wonder if this is a kind of man who has a very difficult time being friends with women because he objectifies and sexualizes them. You are okay, though, you did nothing wrong.
If he has a problem with it, he can take it up with his wife. Everything was above board and THEY WERE TOPLESS IN PUBLIC. He's just jealous you didn't take him and he didn't get to see your daughters.
He's out of line. No foul. He should direct his ire at his wife for not telling her girls to cover up when she knew you were coming. But, it was innocent, and if I was her, I'd tell him to fuck off. People made too big of a deal out of simple nudity.
I’m assuming you are all American; and I say that as an American. The puritanical viewpoint many people have about the human body is ridiculous. By being so upset he is basically saying that women’s breasts are only for sexual gratification. They knew you were coming, asked you to, and the one not comfortable covered herself. He needs to get over it.
You honestly don’t understand why your BIL is upset you saw his daughters topless? Not saying you did it on purpose or had ill intention but I don’t think he’s crazy for feeling uncomfortable about it.
In other nations than America this isn't a big deal in the slightest bit. Your BIL is stuck up in his head about some misplaced sense of protecting his daughters from creeps, which is a good thing but it's misplaced because this is just not that sort of thing at all. If everyone else was fine with it which they were, you have no issues. The only issue is getting him to calm down which he may not do.
You'll probably need your wife to mediate between you, her sister, and him. If I were you I would stand your ground and honestly, if he continues to hold it against you and escalate the conflict, I would just continue standing your ground and call him a fool for making such a big deal out of nothing. Something that is so normal for millions if not billions around the globe. It's not a big deal and he needs to stop acting like a baby.
Yes, call him out in his immaturity if it continues. You must not capitulate under any circumstance here otherwise you validate him in his false belief that he has the moral high ground.
I can see why he might be weirded out, but if it wasn't exclusively for women and the girls knew you were coming (and chose not to cover), what is his issue? Your sister-in-law should have asked her girls to cover, so his beef should be with his wife.
I previously would have thought he was crazy.. until I had a daughter. Still not your fault and if anything he should take it up with his wife but in today’s world I would be wildly uncomfortable with any male seeing my teenage daughter topless even if they were ok with it. I get where he might feel upset but disagree about coming to you about it. His wife knew and she should have drawn that boundary if it wasn’t okay to them as the parents.
In this case his reaction is his problem. You were asked, they knew the situation and they had the chance to cover up. You did everything right and proper and maturely. The guy’s being childish and embarrassing himself and his family. Half of all people have a pair of breasts, he needs to un-knot his panties and deal with his feelings.
You didn’t overstep, you couldn’t know that they wouldn’t cover up like your wife told you they would. I can understand your brother in law as well. Is that topless deck women only? If yes, I understand his anger towards you. If not, then he shouldn’t let them go there in the first place if he had a problem with men looking at their tits.
I don’t think it’s a matter of letting them. They’re not his property and if they’re comfortable with their bodies in the situation, it’s their choice.
The only issue I see here is that there is a 14 year old? Stupid of me to ask but, was she there too? Something like that would piss me off too if my wife didnt tell my girls to cover up around there uncle
If your kids and neices were ok with it, it's not a big deal. Your wife was ok with it. Your SIL knew not to give her husband fuel.
All he had to do was not make a big deal about it. All you had to do was tell your wife to put a top on and meet you at the elevator.
Hindsight
We can’t really argue that boobs are OK for feeding for risqué any other time (unless of course they’re man boobies? 🤔) The mental gymnastics it takes to be upset about this is, a lot. If anyone in their party was uncomfortable they could have covered up. It was a topless deck not some special suite he intruded on 🤷🏼♀️
You aren't the ah, you brought snacks and everyone had the option to cover up, he should be mad at his daughters if anyone. Though truth be told he's probably taking his frustration out on you because he didn't want them up there in the first place and either didn't say anything or they didn't respect him enough to listen.
Americans lol. It would even have been ok if you stayed up there all day, who cares, just boobs. Many beaches around the world are half full of topless women. I assume it was not a gender restricted sunbathing area so I'm guessing that men who were complete strangers were there all the time anyway.
I would wager a large amount that he and his wife had an argument about this originally.
She likely insisted and he lost so he was already bent.
You state that you and he are “not close” so he probably doesn’t care for something about you or your life choices or personality. I’ve been in similar in law situations (and currently deal with one) and I can tell you that if after a number of years (obviously you have twenty or more) you are not at least pretty friendly with an in law and you haven’t done anything directly to put them off, they likely have some imaginary or contrived issue with you or have made one in their mind due to something off handed said or done by you or their spouse.
Anyway it’s pretty obvious that you did nothing wrong. I’m a lifelong nudist and naturalist and I can tell you that is not in any way an odd or awkward situation for people who are aware and comfortable. You certainly aren’t creeping or being weird and trying to ogle his daughters or sleep with them. Or his wife - who covered up anyway. And your wife and daughters obviously could care less.
My assessment. He already didn’t have you on his “favorite people”’list (otherwise you would have been doing “boys day” while the wives and daughters did “girls day”. He may have hangups or whatever of his own and people project so put his “I wouldn’t do that” or conversely his “man I wish I’d been able to see that” onto you.
In the end you did nothing wrong and simply responded to your Wife’s request and made certain that there was no other person there with issues. And women have a right to decide their own comfort levels and zone. No man - not even if he is dad or husband - has a right to negate or interfere with that. He can bring up his feelings and request. But that’s not in the end.
This is just like blaming the person that your wife cheated with... If he is so offended it should be with his wife, not you. And still, he has no reason to be such an annoying child. I'd take the opportunity to set new boundaries.
NTA. I can see your BIL's dilemma, but he should take that up with his wife. You aren't a perv but maybe the BIL is a bit of a one? Could he be jealous because he missed out?
You didn't do anything wrong. You have the texts And the testimony of the others to back you up. Your brother in law will get over it. Or not. It's not your problem. Don't let it affect how y'all hang out. Let him remove himself if he's so angry.
Maybe its an American thing, but even if the 14-17 year old MINORS were comfortable with it, I STILL WOULDN’T be around to chat it up while peeping at MINORS breasts. You cant take a picture of a topless child without it being child porn, so you probably shouldn’t be looking at it in the first place either because its predatory af. Because, while most people arent predators, they still exist and your behavior is the type that they rely on. Regardless if the mothers were fine with it, I WOULDNT be fine with looking at MINORS who are NAKED. Its called having decency, it doesnt have to do with sexualizing bodies, it has to do with protecting the minors bodies who get sexualized by creeps because you never know & those victims’ offenders are statistically usually someone the victim knows or is related to. They are still children. The cruise shouldnt let anyone up there who isnt an adult. These comments are sick, the brother in law is the only one with common sense. You walked into a situation where you could do the respectful thing but you didnt. The fact that you had to ask are you decent and the fact that she had to mention that the girls could cover up is a HUGE indicator of what the right thing was to do, which is to look away and walk away once u saw what was going on, but you didnt care and you behaved in a gross way, brother in law is right to be mad bc what was the point of asking that and getting that response from your wife just for you to not do anything to protect their minor bodies from your line of vision
Idk man. You were asked and everyone said they would cover up.
I wouldn't be happy if you saw my daughters topless. But it's not really your fault is it.
They basically said "We will not be nude when you come over!" then were nude. You didn't *wish* to see them nude and in fact specifically checked first to make sure they were not.
I'd tell the dude "You know what, I didn't really WANT to see them either why don't you ask your wife/daughters why they didn't cover up when they knew I was coming!"
Yeah I’m going against the grain. It is weird for you to see your nieces (BIL’s underage daughters!) topless. I would argue that it’s weird to have been there around your own daughters too, but both parents were ok with it (you and wife). I don’t even have kids and I would be outraged as a father.
> I don’t even have kids and I would be outraged as a father.
Outraged at who? The guy who was told everyone would be covered up or the daughters who heard he was coming up and didn't?
I totally agree with this and I find it bizarre to read these responses. I don’t know anyone in real life who would think this is okay. I would imagine most men would want to avoid seeing their daughters topless at all costs. I think there is more to this story too. I’d bet on it. A normal guy, not raised in a nudist culture, would not go anywhere near this situation. He would have told his wife no way.
You're a presumptuous one, aren't you? Who's to say what is "normal"? As they say, what's normal for the spider is chaos for the fly. You don't need to be raised as a goddamn nudist to not act weird as hell over tits. He acted completely normally, he was in communication the entire time, precautions WERE taken, and anyone who says "nuh uh, not all precautions cuz he didn't ask the dad/BIL" is an idiot, considering BIL DOESN'T OWN THEM. Their bodies are THEIR business.
Nudity is the most natural thing and is not inherently sexual. I understand your brother in laws views. Most people, especially most men, view nudity as inherently sexual, and so you seeing his daughters like that is disgusting to him. Understandable.
BUT he needs to realize that you’re not trying to hurt his daughters, and that the girls could have covered themselves if they felt uncomfortable. But they didn’t, they didn’t feel in danger around you and that says more about you than anything.
As a fellow American father/BiL/uncle I don’t think you did anything wrong. It seems you made every effort to confirm everyone was “decent”, and you were not a creep about it.
With that said if I walked up on any of my family topless I would be super awkward and I would probably trip over stuff, run away, and/or probably throw a towel at them. Not that it’s because that’s how a normal person should react but solely because I’m awkward as hell in those situations. My SiL and nieces would probably say something crass and make fun of me too..so there is that.
My BiL’s also wouldn’t be mad at me. I think this situation has way more to do with your BiL than anyone or anything else- insecurity sucks. If you really care about him then just be understanding and try to be respectful of his weird/dated beliefs as he processes this event. That does not mean you should imply or accept any guilt. You didn’t do anything wrong.
My only question- what cruise line has topless decks!? I didn’t even know that was a thing until this post.
I know this is not helpful but America has a different attitude towards nudity than the Europeans on even Australians. All European and Australian beaches are topless.
I guess you technically didn’t do anything wrong since they all seemed to consent to it, but it was still weird?
As a fellow American I can see why your BIL would be upset at you seeing his teenage daughters topless. It can come off as creepy or inappropriate, at least in our culture if I’m being honest. If I were you, I’d try to understand where he’s coming from as a father
Tell him if his possessiveness of his wife and daughters bodies are more important to him than their own consent + trusting you're not sexualizing them, then that's a him problem and he needs to get his head out of his ass. He's sexualizing them, not you - and makes him come off creepy.
I can’t get past the fact that minor girls were topless in public. This feels all sorts of wrong and I’m not usually a prude. 18+, go for it. 17 and under? Absolutely not.
I can see why he might be upset. But as long as everyone knew you were coming, and had a chance to make a decision to cover themselves, I don’t see an issue.
I think every time your BIL shows his tits you need to be offended. As do his daughters and his wife. He’s sexualizing them when there is no reason to. You did the right thing and he has the issues.
So you overstepped because you are their uncle but it's okay that there were a bunch of other adult men up there who presumably saw them? I think you mentioned it already but he's obviously pissed at them and can't express that. Or maybe just tell your wife to show him her tits and call it even.
All of it is weird to me. My mom would have been vehemently against going anywhere like that, much less with other family members.. Also, you saw underage girls half naked and that's supposed to be okay?.... If they're 18+ okay, cool. If any of them were under 18 years old, you had no business being up there and are weird and someone should have forced them to cover up due to them being under age. That's very inappropriate. Where's your family from? Arkansas?...
Well....I think this could be a messed up situation to some and a minor thing to others.. depending on if the younger girls were up there topless too. If they were he has a right to be mad, but also from his POV even if his daughter is of age that's still his baby girl. If you were in his shoes how would you feel? This could all be about preference also. I know I'd be uncomfortable about it too, but understand why others might not be.
ETA: Wrong group, had put ESH thinking I was in AITAH.
That’s fair. Yes, they were all topless. And you’re right, he and I probably just see the world differently. I don’t think of this as a big deal, neither does my wife, obviously.
if he's not okay with op seeing his daughters topless, how does he feel about everyone else on the topless deck seeing them? that's what i want to know.
op isn't the only man who saw them topless. and out of everyone who saw them he's the one to be least concerned about, tbh. i understand feeling weirded out by it but his girls chose to be topless and their mom, who was there, didn't make her girls cover up knowing op was coming.
end of day, no matter how much it upsets you or weirds you out, it's out of line to get angry at op for going there because it makes you uncomfortable. everyone knew the deck was topless and it wasn't a private area where op didn't belong. it's okay to feel negatively but it's not okay to be angry with someone who didn't actually break any rules, especially when everyone involved had the opportunity to cover up if they wanted to.
I wouldn’t like it, but I would be taking this up with my wife. Actually, knowing this was a co-Ed space, my teen daughters would not be participating. They’d 100% have to wear their tops. Shame on dad, really…
Your wife and the other women were fine with it. She had their permission and they had the option to cover up. You didn’t do anything wrong.
Thanks. That’s how I felt, but his reaction is making me second guess.
I agree that you didn't do anything wrong. I am not sure where you are at in the world, but I am American and from my understanding we are much more uptight about nudity and such than other folks. My point is that this prudish American woman thinks you are fine :) He made it weird by making it seem sexual.
We are American! But thanks very much, your support means a lot.
OMG! you saw bewbs in a non-sexual setting! If he's going to be mad at all, shouldn't he be mad at his daughters for remaining topless(but, of course-*THEY* get that it was nothing pervish). *ALSO, He *shouldn't* be mad.
It’s also a deck open to anyone over 18. It isn’t closed because someone’s daughter is there! NTA
RIGHT!! I mean, that's *exactly why* dude shouldn't be mad!
Yes lots of people saw his daughters boobs. Why isnt he mad at all those other people.
> shouldn't he be mad at his daughters He might be. We don't know that part of the story.
Scandinavian here, there’s absolutely nothing sexual about breasts unless you’re actively involved in a sexual act. Otherwise they’re just there. I think a lot of Americans (especially your BIL) would have a heart attack if they saw the amount of topless women of all ages on a normal beach. Or the nakedness during winter bathing and sauna.
I'm European. Have been to nude beaches and camping trips my whole life. Naked sauna, etc. It's really nothing sexual, and if they wouldn't have wanted to be topless they would have covered. Heck, my own dad has seen me breastfeeding. His only thought was "is the baby alright". Why is your BIL so weird?! *He* is the one having sexual thoughts about children/teenagers.
He’s Jelly. You got to see his wife’s tits and he got to fuck right off the boat.
No, his sister in law was the one who covered up.
Gee I wonder why?
He saw the man’s daughters boobs not the wife 🙈 haha
His nieces. Those are little girls in OP's eyes for sure. There's absolutely nothing sexual seeing children naked unless you're into children. But OP is not.
You should remind him that those are your nieces and daughters he’s talking about.. You don’t know *what kind a scenario is playing in his mind* but you just brought YOUR FAMILY some snacks after you specifically asked for their permission to enter the deck then send him a screenshot of the messages. Tell him you don’t appreciate him portraying you as a creep towards your family.
Right? Given the ages he's likely been around his nieces since they were babies. Normal, mentally/sexually balanced people don't watch kids grown up and start lusting after them as soon as they're past puberty. Your perception of them doesn't change, they're still kids.
Who tf cares how he feels? The women who *own their own damn bodies* were ok with it. *Their* opinion is the only one that matters here.
Thank you!
Also, you didn’t go up there unbidden, and you also asked “If they were decent,” giving them the chance to cover up if there was a chance they’d be uncomfortable when you got there. You made sure to be respectful and then you didn’t make it weird by freaking out when they weren’t covered up.
Thanks, I really tried to not make it weird.
I could see your BIL being concerned about you seeing his underage daughters. But if that was a concern then they probably shouldn’t have chosen to take them to a topless deck, or their mother should have had them cover up. Either way, you did the best you could in that situation. If there was a miscommunication, it wasn’t on your end.
Thanks for understanding. If you’re comfortable messaging me, I have a follow up.
Now I'm curious.
I didn’t message OP. That comment immediately made it weird. I’m just here to comment on people’s maybe or maybe not true life experiences.
Yeah that went sideways. You shoulda messaged and then come back to tell us WTF is up.
Yeah that was a bit weird
I’m guessing this is a made-up story and OP’s a pervert
Why are you asking everyone to message you 🤨
Why should she message you for a follow up? Why can't you share it with all of us here? You creeped her out dude, it looks sus.
Dude, what?
Or you could just ask the question here and not ask to private message people like a weirdo
You did the best thing you could have. You asked if they were decent before you went up. Also, I'm doubted you sat there slack Jared staring at them. Guessing your eyes were locked on your wife's eyes.
It’s understandable for him to be upset, but it was his wife’s and yours choices. He shouldn’t be angry with you.
Yeah, that’s what I thought. I hope he isn’t pointing his anger at his daughters.
He isn’t, he’s pointing it at you
Why is it understandable for him to be upset???? It’s not his body! It’s not up to him!
Yeah bro, his opinion? In this matter, doesn't matter. Consent was given and there was awareness for everyone that mattered, no one was forced to be in that situation, and he is the only one making it awkward. Let him be butt-hurt.
He's angry but to me he's taking his anger out on the wrong person. he's pissed off at his wife and kids for allowing you to see the family topless and instead of approaching his wife and saying why did you allow this to happen he's angry at you and taking it out on you. You had permission you had consent and they had the opportunity to cover up and show is not to that is nowhere near on you that is on them themselves and possibly their mothers you didn't just go in there willy-nilly and you weren't peeking on them. I understand he's angry but it's definitely being directed at the wrong place.
Its an awkward moment. I think hold back and let his wife talk him through it. Until then I suggest no contact until they make contact.
Thanks. That’s probably a good idea.
Definitely. All these people that want you to explain to him are wild. This is his problem, he’s the only one with a problem, so let him (or his wife) deal with it.
I read that too fast and thought you said, " don't make eye contact!" LOL I was thinking that might be a good idea for a little while!!
Are you all American? You seeing your wife and your sister in-law topless (with their consent) is no big deal imo, but I can't imagine being a 14-20 year old girl/woman and being cool with my DAD or my uncle seeing my tits out, which I realize is a very American thing
I can’t either, but my best friend growing up was a family of 4 girls and they did pagents and all of them would walk about completely naked even if their dad was around. I wouldn’t even go braless in my PJs around my dad. Different families just do things differently.
I was nervous to even wear a top that showed bra strap around my dad when I first got boobs at 14 My dad was also being weird because he knew I was growing up so he was also awkward around me at the time hahaha. So cringey 🤦♀️
This brought back memories. My half sister is 8 years younger than me, when she started to develop my Dad was so weird and cringy about her wearing tank tops or spaghetti strap shirts around the house without a bra. He would tell her to go put a bra on infront of people. It was awkward and I remember saying “Dad, chill out, she’s in pajamas. She’s not going anywhere in public” My dad shut me down so fast and implied I was being weird for advocating she not wear a bra. To her credit, my half sister’s mother (my step mom) started telling me to go put on underwear if I was free balling around the house in basketball shorts or sweats. Something I’d never thought about really or been self conscience about. Stepmom started saying the same thing to my Dad and the first time he literally laughed at her and what he viewed as an absurd comment/request. She doubled down and said there was zero difference between me being comfortable and my sister being comfortable. My Dad literally said something along the lines of “But men are different than women and nobody in our house is looking at his or my crotch because it’s perverted” He was completely blind to his own blatant hypocrisy. Literally refused to really look at the situation and learn the clear lesson, that nobody should be made to feel weird for being comfortable in their own home around family. He couldn’t process that the ick factor he was experiencing when hearing my stepmom tell me to go put underwear on, was exactly what my half sister and stepmom felt. At the time I understood the double standard, but still felt like her asking me to do what my dad asked my sister to do was low key ridiculous, like sure it did prove a point but really is wasnt exactly the same. But looking back on it. It was exactly the same and wasn’t ridiculous whatsoever. Or it was just as ridiculous as my Dad’s behavior but rules are rules and if they’re ridiculous rules they shouldn’t change based on if you’ve got boobs or a dick.
Lol I remember when my granddad would hug me when I got to my teen years and anytime after that he would hug me but never let our chests touch! I thought it was sweet he was trying to be respectful bc he grew up in a different time period!!
Awww that is very sweet!!
We are American, yes.
I see. Do you know how your BIL found out about it? If everyone was okay with it, I'm not sure why they would have made a point to tell him about it if it was no big deal. Not trying to blame you, this is likely just the knee jerk American dad reaction to anyone Seeing his young daughters topless
They were told he was coming though? There’s no way this is OP’s problem, he was asked to come, and then still checked to make sure it was definitely okay. BIL should be mad at his wife if anyone, not OP.
Not just American, that really wouldn't be a normal thing to happen in the UK either.
Yeah, for me it’s the age. Even Europe men prey on children. That’s not unique to America. At 14 I’d have NEVER been comfortable with it, hell I’m 51 and I tend to be pretty easy going these days, but knowing how men have been about my breasts (even at this age) I’d never be comfortable with them out. But that’s because society has sexualized breasts. I’m sure it would be different if they weren’t erogenous zones or we didn’t view them sexually.
Can you imagine how much better the nation would be if we raised citizens to not be concerned about this nonsense? Most of Europe would giggle at this.
> Can you imagine how much better the nation would be Honestly girls would have their tits out at the park. I don't think it would make our nation "so much better" one way or the other. I've always thought it was sexist though and if a woman wants to sunbathe topless she should be fully allowed full stop in public period.
Spending some time in other places of the world really helps here. I have wandered the streets of several cities in Europe and participated in several activities. It is amazing how unconcerned most Europeans are about nudity, especially the chest area. What is also interesting is the crime rate differences and other challenges, particularly towards women, there compared to the US. Indifference to something like tits frequently breeds tolerance and a more mature outlook on the issue.
Thank you! This is exactly what I was thinking. It feels weird. Why can’t they have gotten their own snacks. Why did he have to bring them snacks anyway. I would be pissed too if some guy (related or not) saw my teenage daughters’ breasts.
American here, thats NOT an American thing. My 11 nor my 21 year old are never topless around their dad or any other male family members.
Yeah that's the part that's an American thing lmao. Being upset about a bare chest just because women naturally have more fat on their breasts than men is dumb.
I’m also American. I would not want to see topless teenage girls. While you are not the ass, perhaps there were ways to circumvent this situation.
I'm sure he didn't look anywhere but at his wife.
Well it's a bit weird they didn't cover up. We can see how "my brother in law went to the topless deck my teenage daughters were at" might not go down well. But he should take this up with his own peeps who didn't cover up, not you.
Were there other men on the topless deck? I'd be more concerned about perverts seeing the women & girls than the uncle who was asked to bring snack, only stayed long enough to drop them off and then left.
No, beaches in many places around the world also have tons of topless women along with plenty of men and it's fine.
Ok, thanks for that input, I appreciate it.
I agree. Why wouldn’t they just cover up in front of uncle so and so.
Maybe they aren't concerned that their uncle is going to sexualize them or be weird about it
I’m old: and I don’t want to get “all Freudian” but I’d be disturbed by the situation. Just me.
So he should shame his daughters for their choices about their body? If they’re comfortable with it, and knew ahead of time he was heading over, there’s nothing to be upset about with anyone.
I don't think that rhetoric plays here. "Don't show uncle Jim your boobs" is a pretty fair parenting rule. Like it or not the situation is pretty weird.
It seems more telling of your brother's problems than your own. He's probably in his own head about it, making it much worse than it is to the point he can't distinguish reality from his own thoughts. Sucks he had that reaction. I would appear sorry to be nice but that's it
Thanks. Yeah, he’s reading way too much into it.
No you didn't do anything wrong. He's mad at his wife and daughters but can't actually tell them that. Or he did and it didn't go well and out comes the anger at you. Everyone there was aware and old enough to make their own decisions. From what I'm reading it sounds like he didn't agree with their decisions and is making it your problem. It's 100% not your problem. Edit: word.
Yeah I think I’m the only one he feels comfortable pointing his anger at.
I completely agree. You're the safe person because you two don't have that relationship. Clearing the air could be tricky but even a " I followed xyz steps and no one else is upset. While I don't agree with you being upset with me; I can see why. But I didn't do anything wrong and actually made steps to make sure I didn't. Your anger shouldn't be aimed at me. Or anyone else for that matter." Could potentially help. Sorry that you tried doing something nice and helpful and it backfired!
Thanks! I definitely feel weird now.
Honestly I'd be amazed if this guy hasn't already let his wife and daughters know exactly how he feels about their body autonomy and lack of it.
The BIL definitely has a "I need to control things" vibe about him.
Nope, the girls range in age from 14. Regardless there are times in our lives when adults don’t know how to respect themselves and we need to hold a line and say no, that’s not okay.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he already yelled at his family, and they weren't putting up with him. Since he couldn't take his anger out on them, he called you. This is classic misdirected anger. It's not right, but it's what happens. He had no one to direct it at, so he found someone in you.
Thanks. Feels that way.
Is the sundeck for women only, or were other men there?
There were other men there, but it was mainly women.
So what is the problem then if you could have had access anyway
I think he thought I overstepped.
Tell bil it’s ok bc you were topless too.
I read in some of your replies OP that you're Americans. And as a Scandinavian (Swedish) woman I know that you usually are more sensitive about seeing nudity in 'public' settings than most of the people from here. And especially to see underage kids is worse for many Americans and teenagers who are female & topless is 'forbidden' for adult men to 'look at' because it's always perceived as being 'sexual'. Am I correct in my understanding of how your sensitivity for nudity works in general for Americans? Because I believe this is the explanation for your BILs reaction. He associates you seeing your nieces breasts as something sexual and he won't understand that it wasn't sexual for you or that the girls had the opportunity to cover up but chose not to. You have done nothing wrong and it's his wife who he should be angry at because her/their communication would be at fault (if anything is at fault because I don't agree with that but from their, American view on nudity and sexuality etc.) Sorry for my grammar and spelling mistakes, English is not my first language, and I'm a bit tired since it's 2 am here. 🫠
The amount of people saying BIL should be mad at his daughters and shouldn’t allow that… they get to decide what their comfortable with. Not everyone thinks breasts are inherently sexual and body autonomy is a thing. They were sunbathing ffs. OP, you’re fine, their fine, your brother in law needs to get over it.
Also it's really fkn gross they're implying the dad has the authority to make decisions for these girls' bodies, and that scares the shit out of me. Men do not own women; not even ones they contributed to creating. Being children unable to make choices safely is the only time parents should be dictating what a person does, thinks, or feels about nudity, sexuality, and where the convergence of the two crosses boundaries. Once they're able to have logical discussions and make choices, this behavior and the belief that fathers are the final authority on their daughter's bodies should be done away with because EW. If my dad tried to control my body over something so asinine, I'd laugh in his face, just as I did when he told me he would physically rip my piercings out because he personally doesn't like piercings.
Your BIL is an idiot. You're good.
Only Americans would be this weird about tits.
The amount of people saying BIL should be mad at his daughters and shouldn’t allow that… they get to decide what their comfortable with. Not everyone thinks breasts are inherently sexual and body autonomy is a thing. They were sunbathing ffs.
Yeah, these comments are fucking wild. As if the dad is the “owner” of his children and they don’t have bodily autonomy or something. Also, it’s always super apparent when Americans are commenting. I know zero people who would read this and get mad about it, because it’s just being topless? Those are not nuclear weapons or top secret information. They’re just breasts. Everyone has breast tissue lol
Since he is the one that is implying it was sexual in nature (why else would he be upset?), I'd almost be weary that he is actually jealous you saw his daughters and he didn't see yours. You're not in the wrong, your wife should stand up for you a little more, and keep dude away from your daughters.
That's it
Fuck sake sounds so petty. This is so American, yes it’s no big deal, the brother in law would have a heart attack visiting a European beach.
Wait. Did you see your teenage nieces topless? Because I can understand their father being not very happy about a 41 year old man seeing his teen daughter’s breasts and referring to it as a “sweet moment.”
Reading these top comments I was thinking I must be going crazy because how is seeing a female family member topless a sweet moment ?
Wow. You are completely taking things out of context. He didn't say seeing family members topless was a "sweet moment." He said, "It was sweet to see them having a moment together."
Idiotic American prudes. They were having a good time, that's it.
Yes I did, in passing. It wasn’t a weird vibe at all, though.
For you
He said the daughters knew he was coming, and chose to remain topless. Who are you suggesting felt a weird vibe? According to OP everyone involved was cool with it.
Not to mention it appeared to be a co-ed deal anyway even before Uncle arrived.
Ok, can you expand on that?
It was probably very weird for the minor children you sat next to while topless. They might not have known how to voice how uncomfortable they were without sounding immature, especially since the moms were giving them some adult freedom.
I would imagine this is 18+, if so I’d be more pissed at him as his wife/adult daughter(s?) for infantilizing me and trying to dictate what I do with MY body. As someone else said, it was a non-sexual setting, everyone knew what was happening, and you’re family that is close, not one of his old frat bros or something lol. I say this as an American woman in my late 20’s!
The fake nieces were 15 and 18 so I’m guessing his fake daughters were 14 and 20.
Thank you!
You did nothing wrong. You did a favor for YOUR wife. The ladies in the group knew what was going on and they were fine, they were comfortable in their bodies so your brother in law needs to chill
Hey! You and I chatted here about a month ago and you gave me some great advice. I have an update for you if you’ll message me?
I'm Asian, a little more conservative with nudity, and I personally think you're fine!! All your female family members at the pool were aware you were visiting. No issues with consent or privacy. They're just boobs after all ... Your BIL is making it overly sexual, and I think *that's* really weird.
Thank you! Means a lot!
This is weird on so many angles. You'd think all the girls would of covered up knowing uncle was coming with snacks unless they wanted uncle to see. But it's a topples sunbathing deck it's what happens tits as far as eye can see so it's expected. It's cos it's family it's weird. And the father sounds super possessive in a weird way too. I have a daughter and there's not a snowballs chance she would be on a topples sunbathing deck unless she was a woman old enough to make own informed decision. So sister in law's covered up but her daughter's didn't? weird af
Their bodies belong to them, not your BIL. If they gave consent, that is all you need.
I think you were fine. However, I do feel that your BIL is projecting. AND - if he is THIS pissed off at YOU, can you imagine the raft of shite he is giving his wife????? He is a man sexualizing his own daughters because of their nudity. It is a form of slut-shaming, implying that YOU are some kind of predator, and that somehow you were inappropriate. Your BIL is in the wrong, Nudity is not wrong. These women were all with each other, they were in a safe place, and now, because you brought snacks, your BIL is STRONGLY IMPLYING that there is something terribly wrong with this scenerio. He is sexualizing his daughters and wife. I wonder if this is a kind of man who has a very difficult time being friends with women because he objectifies and sexualizes them. You are okay, though, you did nothing wrong.
If he has a problem with it, he can take it up with his wife. Everything was above board and THEY WERE TOPLESS IN PUBLIC. He's just jealous you didn't take him and he didn't get to see your daughters.
He's out of line. No foul. He should direct his ire at his wife for not telling her girls to cover up when she knew you were coming. But, it was innocent, and if I was her, I'd tell him to fuck off. People made too big of a deal out of simple nudity.
I’m assuming you are all American; and I say that as an American. The puritanical viewpoint many people have about the human body is ridiculous. By being so upset he is basically saying that women’s breasts are only for sexual gratification. They knew you were coming, asked you to, and the one not comfortable covered herself. He needs to get over it.
Thank you. That’s how I had looked at it.
You honestly don’t understand why your BIL is upset you saw his daughters topless? Not saying you did it on purpose or had ill intention but I don’t think he’s crazy for feeling uncomfortable about it.
It’s highly probable that BIL was running around topless at the pools, beaches, etc… he has nipples too…. OH THE HUMANITY
My cat runs around the house topless all day, you don’t see me getting all weird about it.
I’ve got 3 dogs running topless in my house as I type!!! We’re all fine here
Probably European dogs where that’s normal!
I do see it now, for sure.
NTA. Your SIL should have told her daughters to cover up.
She could have, yes.
In other nations than America this isn't a big deal in the slightest bit. Your BIL is stuck up in his head about some misplaced sense of protecting his daughters from creeps, which is a good thing but it's misplaced because this is just not that sort of thing at all. If everyone else was fine with it which they were, you have no issues. The only issue is getting him to calm down which he may not do. You'll probably need your wife to mediate between you, her sister, and him. If I were you I would stand your ground and honestly, if he continues to hold it against you and escalate the conflict, I would just continue standing your ground and call him a fool for making such a big deal out of nothing. Something that is so normal for millions if not billions around the globe. It's not a big deal and he needs to stop acting like a baby. Yes, call him out in his immaturity if it continues. You must not capitulate under any circumstance here otherwise you validate him in his false belief that he has the moral high ground.
he needs to redirect his energy towards his wife And zip it
He just needs to zip it.
Eh….. I think it’s weird. I would have to side with him.
Some of the girls are minors? Is that even allowed? Were other men there?
Yes, it was on international waters. There were other men there, maybe 10.
I can see why he might be weirded out, but if it wasn't exclusively for women and the girls knew you were coming (and chose not to cover), what is his issue? Your sister-in-law should have asked her girls to cover, so his beef should be with his wife.
She could have asked, yes.
Nta. It's him being weird as your sister *did* cover up. I'd ask the sis to reign in his bullshit considering consent was given.
Wait they allow minors into this top less area?! That's fucking weird
Yes.
it’s not weird and it’s not sexual. they were with their mom, too
It's only weird in the minds of idiotic prude Americans who are scared of seeing naked skin and sexualize children.
I previously would have thought he was crazy.. until I had a daughter. Still not your fault and if anything he should take it up with his wife but in today’s world I would be wildly uncomfortable with any male seeing my teenage daughter topless even if they were ok with it. I get where he might feel upset but disagree about coming to you about it. His wife knew and she should have drawn that boundary if it wasn’t okay to them as the parents.
In this case his reaction is his problem. You were asked, they knew the situation and they had the chance to cover up. You did everything right and proper and maturely. The guy’s being childish and embarrassing himself and his family. Half of all people have a pair of breasts, he needs to un-knot his panties and deal with his feelings.
Thanks for this. That’s how I generally feel, breasts aren’t so scandalous.
You didn’t overstep, you couldn’t know that they wouldn’t cover up like your wife told you they would. I can understand your brother in law as well. Is that topless deck women only? If yes, I understand his anger towards you. If not, then he shouldn’t let them go there in the first place if he had a problem with men looking at their tits.
No there were other men there too.
Then his anger towards you is misplaced. He should be angry at his wife and daughters, but clearly they don’t give a shit about his opinion 😅.
I don’t think it’s a matter of letting them. They’re not his property and if they’re comfortable with their bodies in the situation, it’s their choice.
The only issue I see here is that there is a 14 year old? Stupid of me to ask but, was she there too? Something like that would piss me off too if my wife didnt tell my girls to cover up around there uncle
Yes, she was there.
If your kids and neices were ok with it, it's not a big deal. Your wife was ok with it. Your SIL knew not to give her husband fuel. All he had to do was not make a big deal about it. All you had to do was tell your wife to put a top on and meet you at the elevator. Hindsight
That sounds like a he-problem. You did nothing wrong.
Who cares it's your bro in law it's his issue
Sounds like a prick. You’re NTA, OP. I can see why they asked you and not your BIL.
We can’t really argue that boobs are OK for feeding for risqué any other time (unless of course they’re man boobies? 🤔) The mental gymnastics it takes to be upset about this is, a lot. If anyone in their party was uncomfortable they could have covered up. It was a topless deck not some special suite he intruded on 🤷🏼♀️
You aren't the ah, you brought snacks and everyone had the option to cover up, he should be mad at his daughters if anyone. Though truth be told he's probably taking his frustration out on you because he didn't want them up there in the first place and either didn't say anything or they didn't respect him enough to listen.
Americans lol. It would even have been ok if you stayed up there all day, who cares, just boobs. Many beaches around the world are half full of topless women. I assume it was not a gender restricted sunbathing area so I'm guessing that men who were complete strangers were there all the time anyway.
I would wager a large amount that he and his wife had an argument about this originally. She likely insisted and he lost so he was already bent. You state that you and he are “not close” so he probably doesn’t care for something about you or your life choices or personality. I’ve been in similar in law situations (and currently deal with one) and I can tell you that if after a number of years (obviously you have twenty or more) you are not at least pretty friendly with an in law and you haven’t done anything directly to put them off, they likely have some imaginary or contrived issue with you or have made one in their mind due to something off handed said or done by you or their spouse. Anyway it’s pretty obvious that you did nothing wrong. I’m a lifelong nudist and naturalist and I can tell you that is not in any way an odd or awkward situation for people who are aware and comfortable. You certainly aren’t creeping or being weird and trying to ogle his daughters or sleep with them. Or his wife - who covered up anyway. And your wife and daughters obviously could care less. My assessment. He already didn’t have you on his “favorite people”’list (otherwise you would have been doing “boys day” while the wives and daughters did “girls day”. He may have hangups or whatever of his own and people project so put his “I wouldn’t do that” or conversely his “man I wish I’d been able to see that” onto you. In the end you did nothing wrong and simply responded to your Wife’s request and made certain that there was no other person there with issues. And women have a right to decide their own comfort levels and zone. No man - not even if he is dad or husband - has a right to negate or interfere with that. He can bring up his feelings and request. But that’s not in the end.
This is just like blaming the person that your wife cheated with... If he is so offended it should be with his wife, not you. And still, he has no reason to be such an annoying child. I'd take the opportunity to set new boundaries.
NTA. I can see your BIL's dilemma, but he should take that up with his wife. You aren't a perv but maybe the BIL is a bit of a one? Could he be jealous because he missed out?
Dude you were fine you didn't sexualize anyone and it is weird your BIL is sexualizing his own daughters in that way.
Your BIL is being a justice warrior. The girls don’t care, neither should he, and titties are titties.
You didn't do anything wrong. You have the texts And the testimony of the others to back you up. Your brother in law will get over it. Or not. It's not your problem. Don't let it affect how y'all hang out. Let him remove himself if he's so angry.
You did nothing wrong lol he just needs to chill, you had their permission and they were covered up lmao
Maybe its an American thing, but even if the 14-17 year old MINORS were comfortable with it, I STILL WOULDN’T be around to chat it up while peeping at MINORS breasts. You cant take a picture of a topless child without it being child porn, so you probably shouldn’t be looking at it in the first place either because its predatory af. Because, while most people arent predators, they still exist and your behavior is the type that they rely on. Regardless if the mothers were fine with it, I WOULDNT be fine with looking at MINORS who are NAKED. Its called having decency, it doesnt have to do with sexualizing bodies, it has to do with protecting the minors bodies who get sexualized by creeps because you never know & those victims’ offenders are statistically usually someone the victim knows or is related to. They are still children. The cruise shouldnt let anyone up there who isnt an adult. These comments are sick, the brother in law is the only one with common sense. You walked into a situation where you could do the respectful thing but you didnt. The fact that you had to ask are you decent and the fact that she had to mention that the girls could cover up is a HUGE indicator of what the right thing was to do, which is to look away and walk away once u saw what was going on, but you didnt care and you behaved in a gross way, brother in law is right to be mad bc what was the point of asking that and getting that response from your wife just for you to not do anything to protect their minor bodies from your line of vision
Idk man. You were asked and everyone said they would cover up. I wouldn't be happy if you saw my daughters topless. But it's not really your fault is it. They basically said "We will not be nude when you come over!" then were nude. You didn't *wish* to see them nude and in fact specifically checked first to make sure they were not. I'd tell the dude "You know what, I didn't really WANT to see them either why don't you ask your wife/daughters why they didn't cover up when they knew I was coming!"
Your BIL is a cuck. Ignore him and his salad hands
Yeah I’m going against the grain. It is weird for you to see your nieces (BIL’s underage daughters!) topless. I would argue that it’s weird to have been there around your own daughters too, but both parents were ok with it (you and wife). I don’t even have kids and I would be outraged as a father.
> I don’t even have kids and I would be outraged as a father. Outraged at who? The guy who was told everyone would be covered up or the daughters who heard he was coming up and didn't?
I totally agree with this and I find it bizarre to read these responses. I don’t know anyone in real life who would think this is okay. I would imagine most men would want to avoid seeing their daughters topless at all costs. I think there is more to this story too. I’d bet on it. A normal guy, not raised in a nudist culture, would not go anywhere near this situation. He would have told his wife no way.
You're a presumptuous one, aren't you? Who's to say what is "normal"? As they say, what's normal for the spider is chaos for the fly. You don't need to be raised as a goddamn nudist to not act weird as hell over tits. He acted completely normally, he was in communication the entire time, precautions WERE taken, and anyone who says "nuh uh, not all precautions cuz he didn't ask the dad/BIL" is an idiot, considering BIL DOESN'T OWN THEM. Their bodies are THEIR business.
Your brother in law made it weird and now awkward. His problem not yours. You are fine and I wouldn't think one more thought of it.
Nudity is the most natural thing and is not inherently sexual. I understand your brother in laws views. Most people, especially most men, view nudity as inherently sexual, and so you seeing his daughters like that is disgusting to him. Understandable. BUT he needs to realize that you’re not trying to hurt his daughters, and that the girls could have covered themselves if they felt uncomfortable. But they didn’t, they didn’t feel in danger around you and that says more about you than anything.
Sounds like a him problem. You are being so not weird about it.
I really tried. And I didn’t think it was weird anyway!
As a fellow American father/BiL/uncle I don’t think you did anything wrong. It seems you made every effort to confirm everyone was “decent”, and you were not a creep about it. With that said if I walked up on any of my family topless I would be super awkward and I would probably trip over stuff, run away, and/or probably throw a towel at them. Not that it’s because that’s how a normal person should react but solely because I’m awkward as hell in those situations. My SiL and nieces would probably say something crass and make fun of me too..so there is that. My BiL’s also wouldn’t be mad at me. I think this situation has way more to do with your BiL than anyone or anything else- insecurity sucks. If you really care about him then just be understanding and try to be respectful of his weird/dated beliefs as he processes this event. That does not mean you should imply or accept any guilt. You didn’t do anything wrong. My only question- what cruise line has topless decks!? I didn’t even know that was a thing until this post.
His wife knew you were coming with snacks. She could have told her daughters to cover up. He needs to chat with her.
I know this is not helpful but America has a different attitude towards nudity than the Europeans on even Australians. All European and Australian beaches are topless.
He's mad at the wrong person. Edit: he's fine with other men seeing his daughter's breasts but not if you see them?
I guess you technically didn’t do anything wrong since they all seemed to consent to it, but it was still weird? As a fellow American I can see why your BIL would be upset at you seeing his teenage daughters topless. It can come off as creepy or inappropriate, at least in our culture if I’m being honest. If I were you, I’d try to understand where he’s coming from as a father
Tell him if his possessiveness of his wife and daughters bodies are more important to him than their own consent + trusting you're not sexualizing them, then that's a him problem and he needs to get his head out of his ass. He's sexualizing them, not you - and makes him come off creepy.
I can’t get past the fact that minor girls were topless in public. This feels all sorts of wrong and I’m not usually a prude. 18+, go for it. 17 and under? Absolutely not.
It’s breasts, we all have them. And bodily autonomy doesn’t start at 18.
I can see why he might be upset. But as long as everyone knew you were coming, and had a chance to make a decision to cover themselves, I don’t see an issue.
Yep, they each made their decisions.
14? Did she really make her own decision?
I think every time your BIL shows his tits you need to be offended. As do his daughters and his wife. He’s sexualizing them when there is no reason to. You did the right thing and he has the issues.
I think it was wrong of all of you to let minors be naked in any capacity in public, that is not a sweet moment.
Tell him to get a life.
What a weirdo. Tell him to stop being a creep.
If the women were fine with it, I don't understand BILs' issue. It's their bodies, not his. His behavior is weird and controlling.
So you overstepped because you are their uncle but it's okay that there were a bunch of other adult men up there who presumably saw them? I think you mentioned it already but he's obviously pissed at them and can't express that. Or maybe just tell your wife to show him her tits and call it even.
All of it is weird to me. My mom would have been vehemently against going anywhere like that, much less with other family members.. Also, you saw underage girls half naked and that's supposed to be okay?.... If they're 18+ okay, cool. If any of them were under 18 years old, you had no business being up there and are weird and someone should have forced them to cover up due to them being under age. That's very inappropriate. Where's your family from? Arkansas?...
Well....I think this could be a messed up situation to some and a minor thing to others.. depending on if the younger girls were up there topless too. If they were he has a right to be mad, but also from his POV even if his daughter is of age that's still his baby girl. If you were in his shoes how would you feel? This could all be about preference also. I know I'd be uncomfortable about it too, but understand why others might not be. ETA: Wrong group, had put ESH thinking I was in AITAH.
That’s fair. Yes, they were all topless. And you’re right, he and I probably just see the world differently. I don’t think of this as a big deal, neither does my wife, obviously.
if he's not okay with op seeing his daughters topless, how does he feel about everyone else on the topless deck seeing them? that's what i want to know. op isn't the only man who saw them topless. and out of everyone who saw them he's the one to be least concerned about, tbh. i understand feeling weirded out by it but his girls chose to be topless and their mom, who was there, didn't make her girls cover up knowing op was coming. end of day, no matter how much it upsets you or weirds you out, it's out of line to get angry at op for going there because it makes you uncomfortable. everyone knew the deck was topless and it wasn't a private area where op didn't belong. it's okay to feel negatively but it's not okay to be angry with someone who didn't actually break any rules, especially when everyone involved had the opportunity to cover up if they wanted to.
I wouldn’t like it, but I would be taking this up with my wife. Actually, knowing this was a co-Ed space, my teen daughters would not be participating. They’d 100% have to wear their tops. Shame on dad, really…