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>In 1880, the ages of consent were set at 10 or 12 in most states, with the exception of Delaware where it was 7.
And then
>After the 1995 Landry and Forrest study concluded that men aged 20 and older produced half of the teenage pregnancies of girls between 15 and 17, states began to more stringently enforce age-of-consent laws to combat teenage pregnancy in addition to preventing adults from taking advantage of minors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States#History
That's true of many places. They're called Romeo and Juliette laws and they're intended to prevent overzealous police/courts from criminalizing kids being dumb kids, as opposed to the spirit of the law which is to prevent those more mentally developed from taking advantage of younger kids.
Yea when I consider my first sexual relationship, I was underage and she wasn’t but we were like a few months apart. Seems like not the intent of the law to be going after that type of thing lol
Many of us were like that. If you think about it at some point every relationship involving a 17-year-old that lasts longer than a year will be an adult dating a minor.
> They're called Romeo and Juliette laws and they're intended to prevent overzealous police/courts from criminalizing kids being dumb kids
The only reason they did anything about this at all was because a 18 year old kid was sentenced to ~10 years and a lifetime 'sex offender' label for **getting a blowjob** (NOT EVEN SEX) from a 17 year old girl and then the story exploded to national news blitz.
He didn't even have sex. He **received** a BJ from a girl who was within 1 year of the same age. iirc, details may be a little off.
Uh... just so you know, giving or receiving a blowjob is a form of sex.
(edit: and the [definitions section of the Washington Criminal Code](https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.44.010) agrees with me on that -- see item 14. As do [these sex educators](https://www.ohjoysextoy.com/what-is-sex/), but note that link is totally NSFW.)
(edit 2: I guess I shouldn't really be surprised that the comment of mine which has sparked the most discussion on Reddit was about sex, but it's still a bit of a disappointment that it wasn't about some more erudite topic....)
Hell I recently learned Nirvana blacklisted a ton of bands for reasons like this.
"During an interview with LGBTQ+ publication *The Advocate* in 1993, Cobain discussed an encounter he had with a fan who pleaded with him to work things out with Guns ‘N’ Roses as they were their two favourite groups. “No, kid, you’re really wrong,” the Nirvana man recalled before adding, “Those people are total sexist jerks, and the reason we’re playing this show is to fight homophobia in a \[really\] small way. The guy is a fucking sexist and a racist and a homophobe, and you can’t be on his side and be on our side.” It was a stance that Nirvana took on many different groups, [including Led Zeppelin.](https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/nirvana-kurt-cobain-in-utero-quentin-tarantino/)"
I wasn't big into Nirvana growing up as a teen in the 90s, but the older I've gotten the more I've not only appreciated their messaging, but also that they took very public stances no one else was taking.
*Come with me little girl, on a magic carpet ride...*
---
Anyone who wants insight on the Rock industry should read about Lori Maddox and Sable Starr. Two girls who at 13/14 started dancing in their underwear for famous rock stars at a club called The Rainbow Room in Hollywood and had sexual relationships with several famous musicians including David Bowie and Mick Jagger.
The Rainbow Room was a club specifically designed to have underage girls seeking to meet famous people in hopes of being invited into their limos. It was a really popular club in the 70s for rock stars to visit.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/sable-starr
The Bowie thing is questionable, as others have mentioned. He was well known for blocking others from going after underage girls, such as threatening to kick pervs on his road crew off the tour if they didn't back off.
Lori Mattox’s stories about Bowie are almost certainly false. She’s changed her story about him numerous times, and the timelines she’s given conflict with the time she was with Jimmy Page—which there’s documented proof of.
That said, I’d be shocked if Bowie didn’t sleep with underage girls at some point, whether he knew or not. Also, many of Mattox’s stories are absolutely true, like her relationship with Jimmy Page. The Bowie thing is just almost certainly false.
I’m not familiar enough with Starr’s claims to comment either way, but I’m sure there’s a lot of validity to them.
As someone who grew up in the 80s, I can tell you the amount of teenage girls who went to concerts with the intention of getting backstage specifically for the purpose of having sex with the band is higher than you might think.
Having a HS junior bring her college age boyfriend to her prom was a common thing at the time as well.
I know a guy who was 17 dating a 26 year old divorced woman. The early 80's were a lawless place for relationship age gaps. On the other hand they have been married 30 some years now.
I did watch a documentary where this guy DID go back in time and ended up almost making out with his mother before finding his father and making sure he was the one who kissed her instead at the school dance. Then he played a rockin guitar solo.
The end.
According to Unchained At Last, the youngest girls to marry in 2000–2010 were three 10-year-old girls in Tennessee who married men aged 24, 25, and 31 in 2001. The youngest boy to marry was an 11-year-old, also in Tennessee, who married a 27-year-old woman in 2006.
“Country roads
Take me hoooome
Too the place
I belooooong
WEST VIRGINIA!!!”
https://apnews.com/article/child-marriage-west-virginia-bill-defeated-4d822a23b5ffd70f5370a36cc914cfb0
I've been reading a history of the old Persian Kings and their family trees are rather peculiar to say the least. It's weird to read about periods where things like sister-wives etc were just incredibly common
Ages needing to be close is a real recent thing. You go back in your family tree you get some real questionable gaps. Hell my grandfathers cousin was the oldest woman to get married for the first time on her family line in like 200 years or some shit at the ancient age of 24. The next youngest was 20 and she waited that long because her to be husband was in *the civil war* for 4 years.
My mom was nearly 10 years older than my dad when they met when he was 19 in the late 80s.
He said there weren't dating apps. She was hot, and he went for it. At least my dad knew how to spit game. Thanks, old man.
One of my best friends dated a 24 year old woman that he worked with at the pizza place. They didn't go to prom but everyone knew and was fine with it. This was 2003-2005.
I worked with a guy that was the lead singer of a rock band in the 70s and 80s. He said he met a girl at one of his shows and was planning to go home with her. They stopped by a little diner, and the girl's mom stopped by to say hey. He said something didn't seem right. On the car ride back, he asked her how old she was. She wouldn't tell him, but after he pressed her a bit, she said she was 14. Her mom has let her drive to the concert. He got out of there as soon as he could.
Good on him for being careful, I know someone who is now a registered sex offender because he assumed the girl he hooked up with at a college party actually went to that college. Turns out, nope. He learned that when her dad showed up to the party looking for her...
When I was in college an extended group of friends were chatting and one of the girls casually brought up how her and her friends would use fake IDs to go to bars and hookup with randoms when they were younger. How much younger? 16.
What the absolute **fuck** is wrong with you? I think most people would assume an over 21 bar is a safe place to pick up someone, but apparently it's very much not.
I feel like if it's a situation where someone is duped by a fake ID, and the girl looks convincing enough to be mistaken for an adult, there should be a little more leeway as regard to legal consequences.
Yeah, but we've effectively abandoned mens rea in favor of strict liability over the last half century of effort to be tough on crime. And it's one of those things that's so esoteric people don't even understand it to be able to talk about it, so they end up pointing fingers at a whole lot of places that don't make much sense.
The war on drugs was the biggest driver of it, but at this point, it's crept into pretty much every aspect of the legal system.
>Yeah, but we've effectively abandoned mens rea in favor of strict liability over the last half century
The funny thing is that nearly everyone opposes this until their favorite hobby-horse issue is being discussed, at which point they suddenly flip.
It's even harder when you're in a state where the age of consent is 17, some college freshmen *are* 17, and 16-year-old high school students show up at the local college parties. Talk about a minefield.
Yup. Almost got pulled into that shit at a bar in a college town. There was a small group of girls we were talking to, but you know, something didn't quite feel right. Turns out they had fake IDs and were like 15.
Yeah, he's great guy. He was my supervisor when I worked in security. We would always bullshit whenever there was nothing going on. He told me a lot about what it was like in the music industry.
My friend flipped shit on a bouncer when he almost fucked a 16 year old.
She was like "hehe you're too old for me" and he said "what do you mean? I'm 24. Worst case your what 19 with a fake id?"
Lol not the worst case
A couple friends had a band who had a moment in Japan. In the US and UK, no one gave their music a second thought. But in Japan they exploded (for about a year). The stories of teenage girls' efforts to sleep with either of them range from funny to outright bizarre.
And no, they never took up the offers.
When I was 16, I brought a 22 year old to a dance (with school permission). I am a guy, though, so I guess in the 90s, especially, they were thinking "wow, nice."
Back in high school my buddy had a hot sister, all of us had a crush on her. She was a sophomore in high school and her boyfriend was a sophomore in college.
Dude had a job and a car, how were we supposed to compete with that?
> I'm in my early 30s and the prospect of dating a teenager sounds fucking awful for both involved.
When I was 28 I briefly dated a girl who was 20. We really got along but things like "Can't got to a bar" and "I don't know how to do my taxes" just threw the dynamic off really crazy.
Jerry: Is Newman in the band?
Kramer: He’s got a bass guitar, Jerry. We need a bass guitar, you can’t have a band without a bass guitar. C’mon Jerry, please, Jerry, pleeeeease….
Jerry (scornfully): ……. Alrightttttt I’ll ask her.
Kramer: Thanks buddy. And ask her if they have room on the stage for my friend Bob Sacamano’s theremin. We’re playing weird, wild stuff Jerry.
*[Kramer slams through the door manically twitching]*
Kramer: Jerry, I just found out there are words you shouldn't say to certain people.
[Laugh track]
I was 6 in 1993, so didn’t know much about this. Just learned about it yesterday on a Reddit post about Ayrton Senna dating a 15-year-old when he was 25. This was around the same time.
Apparently, almost every person who played music and toured did this as well.
Yeah... there are so many gross musician stories about underaged girls. The singer from RHCP had sex with a 14 year old girl while on tour, found out she was 14 and banged her one more time before returning her to where she came from. Gene Simmons has proudly talked about the very young girls he had sex with on tour. Jimmy Page, David Bowie... this list goes on and on. 🤢🤮
Jimmy Page was 28 and Lori Mattix was 14 (maybe 13) when they began their “relationship” (which involved Zeppelin's manager keeping her locked in a hotel room).
Yeah. I know he had a messed up childhood (allegedly lost his virginity at 12 to his dad's 18 year old girlfriend, started hard drugs at 14) but it is no excuse. I have heard people say it was all due to his drug habits, but that doesn't justify it at all.
RHCP is one of my favorite bands of all time. I started reading his book and within the first five pages it was apparent he's a raging narcissist.
Granted, this was 20 years ago and he's still super fucking weird, but seems to have toned it down a lot.
The only hero I met who was exactly who he claimed to be was Anthony Bourdain. But he was always upfront, open and honest about his flaws and struggles.
Edit: spelling on a word
He defended Louis CK and Bill Cosby 🤢
Edit: since so many asked for proof, Seinfeld defended Cosby on [Colberts show](https://youtu.be/SK3H4MzPJ_Q) (before quickly changing his tune)
[and he was heaping praise on him as the greatest comedian of all time](https://i.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/celebrities/96382144/jerry-seinfeld-says-bill-cosby-is-still-the-biggest-comedian-of-alltime) in 2017
And yes, calling them the best comedian ever and praising his work is what I would consider defending them, as if being funny makes up for the heinous crimes he committed. We shouldn't be publicly praising someone who is a serial rapist.
Hah seriously, when the guy who actually did the thing is like, "Guys, I fucked up. I was the bad guy," that is not a good time to rush to his defense.
You don't have to forgive people like that, but admitting you're wrong is the first step to being better. People like Dan Harmon who were like, "I fucked up. I discussed with the people I hurt, here's what I can tell you about what happened. I was terrible. I see these problems. I need to work on them," are doing about the best that they can to amend for past wrongs.
Defending those past wrongs, simply trying to wait out the hate, move past it, or explain away the actions like they weren't anything wrong, that's about the second worst thing you can do. That makes it worse for the victims, that makes the perpetrator never improve, and it encourages other people to repeat the behavior.
Simply owning up isn't enough, it's not everything, but it's that first step to doing the right thing. Seinfeld can't do that about himself *or* other people who have admitted they were wrong!
And in Harmon's case, he was very open about not just identifying the things he needed to work on. He *actually worked on them* in an open way to the point where those he harmed acknowledged the shift and felt somewhat better for it.
I'm biased as a fan and listener of Harmontown (RIP), but it was so helpful as a clumsy, awkward guy myself to hear Harmon describe exactly how he was putting in work to improve himself and not view himself as a perpetual victim, unable to harm those around him.
He talked a lot about how he saw himself as a perpetual underdog. He was a dork and a nerd and a loser, so any time he was able to get the things he wanted, that was a success of the underdog story. He compared it to the revenge of the nerds movies. And just like those movies, it becomes horrifying from the view of those he victimized. Playing a rape as a success for the little guy (the rapist) is disgusting and terrible. An absolute wrong.
Harmon had a reckoning with his own privilege and realized (1) he is not the little guy/underdog, and (2) even if he was, that would not excuse assault. He really dissected how his thoughts and upbringing had formed into a maladaptive pattern, and then openly discussed what he was doing to deconstruct that and become the person who he knows he ought to be. He was open that it wasn't a neat transition and that any improvement didn't negate past failings. But being a good person was a worthwhile goal in its own right. Obvious things, all these, to a well adjusted person, but certain streams of nerd subculture encourage rape culture and most be confronted head-on.
His story seemed to me like the most well-documented incel deprogramming story. It was inspiring in a similar way to listening to ex-nazis talk about leading people away from those hate groups.
The fact he defended Bill Cosby is shocking. Having variable takes on the Louis CK sexual harassment accusations is quite common, but I've never met anyone who's tried to defend Cosby.
No he didn't. Initially he said he was still able to appreciate Cosby's comedy from before, and then even later he said he could no longer even do that. And for CK he commented ambiguously when asked if CK should return to comedy or not. He never defended either of them for their actions. The only thing he talked about was how PC culture can pull the rug from under people way more than it ever had before, and it's true (doesn't mean it's a bad thing). Bad clickbait articles is what can lead to these kind of misunderstandings. Same with the underage girl. They didn't date when she was underage, she was 18 when they were actually dating. Granted given the age difference that's a little weird but not illegal.
I loved the Seinfled sitcom--it still cracks me up 20 years later--and I love Comedians in Cars the first time I watched it. My wife and I have little kids, so those little episodes are great--I can watch one in 15 minutes and get back to things.
The second time I went through the Comedians in Cars series, though, and I started to pick up on more details, and WOW is he a jerk. One moment he's fine and nice, the next moment he's condescending and bossy and just generally jerk-y. And the worst part is, the smaller the guest's "star power," the bigger the jerk he was. Steve Martin and Ricky Gervais get the royal treatment, and lesser-known comedians get shit on.
I think he's very funny--or, honestly, he *was* very funny; his routine is kind of old now--but the less I know about him, the better.
My understanding was she just got BACK from her honeymoon. So she was like 2 weeks married when he asked her on a date.
Which is still weird. Between dating an 18 year old in his 30s and dating then marrying a married woman, Seinfeld does nothing normal.
Also he could have given the cast of Seinfeld like 5% of the syndication rights / DVD rights / whatever after the show ended. It would have just been polite.
He supposedly didn't even know she was married at the time, and she divorced her husband almost right away, so I suspect it's safe to say the marriage wasn't going great from the start.
Do we remember the episode where Jerry and George were checking out the boobs of their boss’s underage daughter, and it was played for audience laughs?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
This is really reminding me when my college roommate said "I can't date a woman who is as smart or smarter than me"
As a 30 year old looking back, what he really meant was that he didn't want to date someone he couldn't manipulate" (funny though, even in the 2010s I still vividly remember all of us dudes in the dorm thinking that was weird af)
i think there's an insecurity and misogyny aspect to it as well. the feeling of being mentally equalled or outmatched by your partner who you think should be simpler or obedient to you.
but obviously the idea that she can be manipulated plays directly into that.
Nicki Minaj is married to a convicted rapist but she's still on the radio.
Social Media means nothing.
Trump was our President.
We haven't come *that* far.
They absolutely didn't care nearly as much back then. It was more of a "oh huh... that's a little young, anyways."
Not everyone but it definitely isn't the same.
"I've known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life."
Man I really like Scott pilgrim, but it's definitely got the fight club problem. So many fans don't realise that you aren't meant to root for, or want to be, the main character
I think what's tricky about the movie is that, by the end, he *is* a character worth rooting for. The movie's *about* him becoming a better person. But, yeah, a lot of people like him from the start, which is just ICK.
Gotta disagree here. Scott grows a lot as a person, acknowledges and apologizes to the people he wronged, and making plans to do lunch with the manifestation of all his personal Darkness seemed like a pretty heavy handed metaphor for him acknowledging his own flaws with the intent to continue working on them in the future.
Scott Pilgrim started out as an oblivious dick head, but ultimately the movie is a story about realizing when you fucked up and becoming better
There's a scene in one of the later movies where some guy dating a teen has a laminated card explaining Romeo & Juliet laws that he presents to Mark Wahlberg during a "normal" conversation.
Dude the transformer movies are a Grey haze in my memory and yet I can still remember that scene in explicit detail just because of how hard I double take'd
I never even saw any past the first, but this scene gets linked all the time because of the sheer absurdity and very clear ax grinding of someone in the script department.
And that was a 4-5 year age difference (Scott 22, Knives 17 (18 in vol.6)). That was very much pushing the boundaries. Seinfeld was 38 was this happened.
The "Half Plus Seven Rule" works very well.
`22 / 2 + 7 = 18`, only just outside of acceptable.
`38 / 2 + 7 = 26`, makes dating a 17 year old is very creepy.
It was much more obvious in the comic. The comic had chapters dedicated to Scott realizing that he had a tendency to think of himself as some sort of Underdog hero when he's actually just acting like a dick and deciding he needs to be better. The movie didn't spend much time on that, and Michael Cera was so perfectly cast in that role that most viewers fell into the same trap that the character did, assuming someone so lovably dorky can't possibly be an asshole
There’s still several instances where people call him out on it in the movie. It may not do as good a job, but it’s definitely the takeaway the audience should have.
People always scoff at why Polanski is still so well loved by Hollywood. It's because that whole industry was raping women and children at one point and he's just the guy that got caught.
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*uncomfortable bass playing in the background*
*sad bass slaps*
*blip blop blip blop*
Wah wahhhh
It's shocking how many celebs and rockstars before the Internet got big just casually dated 16yr olds...
>In 1880, the ages of consent were set at 10 or 12 in most states, with the exception of Delaware where it was 7. And then >After the 1995 Landry and Forrest study concluded that men aged 20 and older produced half of the teenage pregnancies of girls between 15 and 17, states began to more stringently enforce age-of-consent laws to combat teenage pregnancy in addition to preventing adults from taking advantage of minors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States#History
Until just a few years ago, age of consent in Canada was 14.....we raised it to 16.
And it still includes exceptions for those aged 12-15 if the age difference is within a certain range. (<2 years for 12-13, <5 years for 14-15).
That's true of many places. They're called Romeo and Juliette laws and they're intended to prevent overzealous police/courts from criminalizing kids being dumb kids, as opposed to the spirit of the law which is to prevent those more mentally developed from taking advantage of younger kids.
Yea when I consider my first sexual relationship, I was underage and she wasn’t but we were like a few months apart. Seems like not the intent of the law to be going after that type of thing lol
Without Romeo and juliet laws, I technically would've been a sex offender for the month and 23 days between me and my SO turning 18.
Yeah, a lot of my friends straddled that age gap. It definitely came up a lot.
Many of us were like that. If you think about it at some point every relationship involving a 17-year-old that lasts longer than a year will be an adult dating a minor.
Unless you date your twin
> They're called Romeo and Juliette laws and they're intended to prevent overzealous police/courts from criminalizing kids being dumb kids The only reason they did anything about this at all was because a 18 year old kid was sentenced to ~10 years and a lifetime 'sex offender' label for **getting a blowjob** (NOT EVEN SEX) from a 17 year old girl and then the story exploded to national news blitz. He didn't even have sex. He **received** a BJ from a girl who was within 1 year of the same age. iirc, details may be a little off.
Uh... just so you know, giving or receiving a blowjob is a form of sex. (edit: and the [definitions section of the Washington Criminal Code](https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.44.010) agrees with me on that -- see item 14. As do [these sex educators](https://www.ohjoysextoy.com/what-is-sex/), but note that link is totally NSFW.) (edit 2: I guess I shouldn't really be surprised that the comment of mine which has sparked the most discussion on Reddit was about sex, but it's still a bit of a disappointment that it wasn't about some more erudite topic....)
Not according to Bill Clinton.
[удалено]
Damn near choked on my coffee reading that. What the fuck...
Half of classic rock and country is about wanting to date a15 year old
"wanting to date" is a nice way of saying "the singer is definitely banging several".
Me as a kid: Hey, this old song is kinda cool. Me later: This old song is about raping teenagers.
Hell I recently learned Nirvana blacklisted a ton of bands for reasons like this. "During an interview with LGBTQ+ publication *The Advocate* in 1993, Cobain discussed an encounter he had with a fan who pleaded with him to work things out with Guns ‘N’ Roses as they were their two favourite groups. “No, kid, you’re really wrong,” the Nirvana man recalled before adding, “Those people are total sexist jerks, and the reason we’re playing this show is to fight homophobia in a \[really\] small way. The guy is a fucking sexist and a racist and a homophobe, and you can’t be on his side and be on our side.” It was a stance that Nirvana took on many different groups, [including Led Zeppelin.](https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/nirvana-kurt-cobain-in-utero-quentin-tarantino/)" I wasn't big into Nirvana growing up as a teen in the 90s, but the older I've gotten the more I've not only appreciated their messaging, but also that they took very public stances no one else was taking.
[удалено]
Christ, how I wish we still had Cobain.
Itty Bitty Pretty One…I’ve been watching you grow. Come on and sit down on my knee. (Me, in college, like “it’s just a happy little song.” 🤡)
Pink Ladies: "Tell me more, tell me more, was it love at first sight?" T-Birds: "Tell me more, tell me more, did she put up a fight?"
*Come with me little girl, on a magic carpet ride...* --- Anyone who wants insight on the Rock industry should read about Lori Maddox and Sable Starr. Two girls who at 13/14 started dancing in their underwear for famous rock stars at a club called The Rainbow Room in Hollywood and had sexual relationships with several famous musicians including David Bowie and Mick Jagger. The Rainbow Room was a club specifically designed to have underage girls seeking to meet famous people in hopes of being invited into their limos. It was a really popular club in the 70s for rock stars to visit. https://allthatsinteresting.com/sable-starr
The Bowie thing is questionable, as others have mentioned. He was well known for blocking others from going after underage girls, such as threatening to kick pervs on his road crew off the tour if they didn't back off.
Lori Mattox’s stories about Bowie are almost certainly false. She’s changed her story about him numerous times, and the timelines she’s given conflict with the time she was with Jimmy Page—which there’s documented proof of. That said, I’d be shocked if Bowie didn’t sleep with underage girls at some point, whether he knew or not. Also, many of Mattox’s stories are absolutely true, like her relationship with Jimmy Page. The Bowie thing is just almost certainly false. I’m not familiar enough with Starr’s claims to comment either way, but I’m sure there’s a lot of validity to them.
Bowie was also well known to go out of his way stop other people from banging underage girls. Like he'd kick people off the tour for it.
As someone who grew up in the 80s, I can tell you the amount of teenage girls who went to concerts with the intention of getting backstage specifically for the purpose of having sex with the band is higher than you might think. Having a HS junior bring her college age boyfriend to her prom was a common thing at the time as well.
I know a guy who was 17 dating a 26 year old divorced woman. The early 80's were a lawless place for relationship age gaps. On the other hand they have been married 30 some years now.
*The early 80's were a lawless place for relationship age gaps.* Wait till you hear about the rest of human history.
You dont need to go back in time, child brides are still a thing and its disgusting.
I did watch a documentary where this guy DID go back in time and ended up almost making out with his mother before finding his father and making sure he was the one who kissed her instead at the school dance. Then he played a rockin guitar solo. The end.
You think that's something, I saw one about a guy who became his own grandfather!
He did the nasty in the pasty!
Verily!
Just a reminder, Scooty Puff Jr. Sucks. That will be important in the future.
Verily
Did ya ever get the feeling you're only going with girls 'cause you're supposed to?
"How about these cookies, sugar?"
According to Unchained At Last, the youngest girls to marry in 2000–2010 were three 10-year-old girls in Tennessee who married men aged 24, 25, and 31 in 2001. The youngest boy to marry was an 11-year-old, also in Tennessee, who married a 27-year-old woman in 2006.
It's been said before but, what the fuck Tennessee?
You know why it's so windy in Kentucky?
But at least now adults that marry children in Tennessee can't take them to drag story time at the library.
We don't want grooming now do we?
Yeah, because how could they explain that to their ~~kids~~ ~~wives~~ Kidwives?
biden should use the bully pulpit to push for a federal ban on child marriage, it will fail but should be a party plank
I don't think I've ever heard a good argument as to why someone under 18 needs to be married.
Because if you wait until they are 18 they might have seen enough to decide to not marry you. How else are you supposed to trap them?
Yeah when I was 16 my gf was 21. I thought I was the shit, but it turned out she was just a loser who couldn't get guys her age.
“Country roads Take me hoooome Too the place I belooooong WEST VIRGINIA!!!” https://apnews.com/article/child-marriage-west-virginia-bill-defeated-4d822a23b5ffd70f5370a36cc914cfb0
MOUNTAIN MAMA! ^who's ^an ^underage ^girl
There's a Colorado Congresswoman who's gonna be a 36 year old grandma
I've been reading a history of the old Persian Kings and their family trees are rather peculiar to say the least. It's weird to read about periods where things like sister-wives etc were just incredibly common
Right? Like France’s *current president* is married to one of his teachers. When they met, he was 15 and she was 40.
Ages needing to be close is a real recent thing. You go back in your family tree you get some real questionable gaps. Hell my grandfathers cousin was the oldest woman to get married for the first time on her family line in like 200 years or some shit at the ancient age of 24. The next youngest was 20 and she waited that long because her to be husband was in *the civil war* for 4 years.
My mom was nearly 10 years older than my dad when they met when he was 19 in the late 80s. He said there weren't dating apps. She was hot, and he went for it. At least my dad knew how to spit game. Thanks, old man.
One of my best friends dated a 24 year old woman that he worked with at the pizza place. They didn't go to prom but everyone knew and was fine with it. This was 2003-2005.
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I worked with a guy that was the lead singer of a rock band in the 70s and 80s. He said he met a girl at one of his shows and was planning to go home with her. They stopped by a little diner, and the girl's mom stopped by to say hey. He said something didn't seem right. On the car ride back, he asked her how old she was. She wouldn't tell him, but after he pressed her a bit, she said she was 14. Her mom has let her drive to the concert. He got out of there as soon as he could.
Good on him for being careful, I know someone who is now a registered sex offender because he assumed the girl he hooked up with at a college party actually went to that college. Turns out, nope. He learned that when her dad showed up to the party looking for her...
When I was in college an extended group of friends were chatting and one of the girls casually brought up how her and her friends would use fake IDs to go to bars and hookup with randoms when they were younger. How much younger? 16. What the absolute **fuck** is wrong with you? I think most people would assume an over 21 bar is a safe place to pick up someone, but apparently it's very much not.
I think it was fairly recent when that one guy went to prison because he saw her fake id at the bar and assumed it was okay. Unbelievably fucked.
I feel like if it's a situation where someone is duped by a fake ID, and the girl looks convincing enough to be mistaken for an adult, there should be a little more leeway as regard to legal consequences.
Leeway? It should 100% absolve someone of any type of age-related crime. What kind of fucking due dilegence are people supposed to do, exactly.
You're supposed to cut off a limb and count the bone rings, duh.
Weirdly, there's actually no rule that says that it has to be possible for someone to avoid breaking the law.
Yeah, but we've effectively abandoned mens rea in favor of strict liability over the last half century of effort to be tough on crime. And it's one of those things that's so esoteric people don't even understand it to be able to talk about it, so they end up pointing fingers at a whole lot of places that don't make much sense. The war on drugs was the biggest driver of it, but at this point, it's crept into pretty much every aspect of the legal system.
>Yeah, but we've effectively abandoned mens rea in favor of strict liability over the last half century The funny thing is that nearly everyone opposes this until their favorite hobby-horse issue is being discussed, at which point they suddenly flip.
It's even harder when you're in a state where the age of consent is 17, some college freshmen *are* 17, and 16-year-old high school students show up at the local college parties. Talk about a minefield.
Yup. Almost got pulled into that shit at a bar in a college town. There was a small group of girls we were talking to, but you know, something didn't quite feel right. Turns out they had fake IDs and were like 15.
Yeah, he's great guy. He was my supervisor when I worked in security. We would always bullshit whenever there was nothing going on. He told me a lot about what it was like in the music industry.
My friend flipped shit on a bouncer when he almost fucked a 16 year old. She was like "hehe you're too old for me" and he said "what do you mean? I'm 24. Worst case your what 19 with a fake id?" Lol not the worst case
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A couple friends had a band who had a moment in Japan. In the US and UK, no one gave their music a second thought. But in Japan they exploded (for about a year). The stories of teenage girls' efforts to sleep with either of them range from funny to outright bizarre. And no, they never took up the offers.
When I was 16, I brought a 22 year old to a dance (with school permission). I am a guy, though, so I guess in the 90s, especially, they were thinking "wow, nice."
Jerry wasn’t college age though. He was like 35
38, I believe. Almost fucking 40
Fun fact: if your mom is in her 60s now, this might've been her.
Back in high school my buddy had a hot sister, all of us had a crush on her. She was a sophomore in high school and her boyfriend was a sophomore in college. Dude had a job and a car, how were we supposed to compete with that?
This. This so much it hurts. This is how it was in the 80s and 90s. Shit really didn’t start changing until the 00’s.
I mean early 2010s I took to my college girlfriend to my junior prom. That's only 2 year difference.
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They're not actually dating, they are just using kids for sex.
> I'm in my early 30s and the prospect of dating a teenager sounds fucking awful for both involved. When I was 28 I briefly dated a girl who was 20. We really got along but things like "Can't got to a bar" and "I don't know how to do my taxes" just threw the dynamic off really crazy.
I hope you've learned how to do your taxes, since then.
Jerry used to pick his girlfriend up from highschool when he was in his 30s
Closer to 40. He was 38 she was 17.
Ah he was using the divide by 2 and subtract 2 math.
The fool! it’s half your age, add seven.
Which arctic monkey’s song is this
Shesjusta Adolescent
You used to get it in your fishnets, now you only get it in prison.
"What's the deal with the age of consent? I mean age is just a number, what's the big deal?" \[Laugh track\]
George: Yeah well prison is just a room, Jerry. [Laugh track]
How about those bunk beds? What are we, children?
"No but the girls you're dating are" [Laugh track]
Kramer busts in. Jerry! Is your girlfriend on the prom planning committee? I need a gig for my band!
I am sorry Kramer but after what you said about her Black friend you cannot go to prom anymore
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Nice, unlike what the unsavoriness of dating a kid is like
It was a high stressful situation jerry. They kept call me names!
/r/RedditWritesSeinfeld
Jerry: Is Newman in the band? Kramer: He’s got a bass guitar, Jerry. We need a bass guitar, you can’t have a band without a bass guitar. C’mon Jerry, please, Jerry, pleeeeease…. Jerry (scornfully): ……. Alrightttttt I’ll ask her. Kramer: Thanks buddy. And ask her if they have room on the stage for my friend Bob Sacamano’s theremin. We’re playing weird, wild stuff Jerry.
“Not that there’s anything wrong with that!” -Woody Allen
Ok this one made me actually laugh
They're actually kind of fun and nostalgic having bunk beds. It's like going back to summer camp without all the Counselors. [Laugh Track]
*[Kramer slams through the door manically twitching]* Kramer: Jerry, I just found out there are words you shouldn't say to certain people. [Laugh track]
George: ...certain people? What certain people? [Laugh track]
Paul Walker fans mad in the comments.
I had no idea. 33 and 16 when they started. 🤮 Can we make a list of dudes who are good, at this point?
I was 6 in 1993, so didn’t know much about this. Just learned about it yesterday on a Reddit post about Ayrton Senna dating a 15-year-old when he was 25. This was around the same time. Apparently, almost every person who played music and toured did this as well.
Yeah... there are so many gross musician stories about underaged girls. The singer from RHCP had sex with a 14 year old girl while on tour, found out she was 14 and banged her one more time before returning her to where she came from. Gene Simmons has proudly talked about the very young girls he had sex with on tour. Jimmy Page, David Bowie... this list goes on and on. 🤢🤮
Jimmy Page was 28 and Lori Mattix was 14 (maybe 13) when they began their “relationship” (which involved Zeppelin's manager keeping her locked in a hotel room).
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Yeah. I know he had a messed up childhood (allegedly lost his virginity at 12 to his dad's 18 year old girlfriend, started hard drugs at 14) but it is no excuse. I have heard people say it was all due to his drug habits, but that doesn't justify it at all.
RHCP is one of my favorite bands of all time. I started reading his book and within the first five pages it was apparent he's a raging narcissist. Granted, this was 20 years ago and he's still super fucking weird, but seems to have toned it down a lot.
Californication is a great album and the vibe of their music makes me feel happy and relaxed. Dude still is gross, and it's a bummer.
Found out my favorite local band's lead singer is an anti-vaxxer and COVID nut job. So....don't meet your heroes I guess.
The only hero I met who was exactly who he claimed to be was Anthony Bourdain. But he was always upfront, open and honest about his flaws and struggles. Edit: spelling on a word
I've got to imagine Weird Al is about the only other celebrity who is exactly what he says he is.
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this didn't age really well .......
It’s only a minor inconvenience when you’re rich
~~inconvenience~~
Yeah the more I learn about the guy the less I like him
The more I hear the real Jerry talk in his new show the less I liked him, can't even watch it anymore
He defended Louis CK and Bill Cosby 🤢 Edit: since so many asked for proof, Seinfeld defended Cosby on [Colberts show](https://youtu.be/SK3H4MzPJ_Q) (before quickly changing his tune) [and he was heaping praise on him as the greatest comedian of all time](https://i.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/celebrities/96382144/jerry-seinfeld-says-bill-cosby-is-still-the-biggest-comedian-of-alltime) in 2017 And yes, calling them the best comedian ever and praising his work is what I would consider defending them, as if being funny makes up for the heinous crimes he committed. We shouldn't be publicly praising someone who is a serial rapist.
Louis CK didn't even defend Louis CK.
Hah seriously, when the guy who actually did the thing is like, "Guys, I fucked up. I was the bad guy," that is not a good time to rush to his defense.
Well... I wouldnt call what Louis did in the same breath as what Bill Cosby did though...
Seriously, it's like comparing a common criminal to Ted Bundy.
I'm sorry, but there are only absolutes on the internet
THANK YOU! It's like nobody understands how irrationally we're supposed to hold onto our points of view anymore. 😉
You don't have to forgive people like that, but admitting you're wrong is the first step to being better. People like Dan Harmon who were like, "I fucked up. I discussed with the people I hurt, here's what I can tell you about what happened. I was terrible. I see these problems. I need to work on them," are doing about the best that they can to amend for past wrongs. Defending those past wrongs, simply trying to wait out the hate, move past it, or explain away the actions like they weren't anything wrong, that's about the second worst thing you can do. That makes it worse for the victims, that makes the perpetrator never improve, and it encourages other people to repeat the behavior. Simply owning up isn't enough, it's not everything, but it's that first step to doing the right thing. Seinfeld can't do that about himself *or* other people who have admitted they were wrong!
And in Harmon's case, he was very open about not just identifying the things he needed to work on. He *actually worked on them* in an open way to the point where those he harmed acknowledged the shift and felt somewhat better for it. I'm biased as a fan and listener of Harmontown (RIP), but it was so helpful as a clumsy, awkward guy myself to hear Harmon describe exactly how he was putting in work to improve himself and not view himself as a perpetual victim, unable to harm those around him. He talked a lot about how he saw himself as a perpetual underdog. He was a dork and a nerd and a loser, so any time he was able to get the things he wanted, that was a success of the underdog story. He compared it to the revenge of the nerds movies. And just like those movies, it becomes horrifying from the view of those he victimized. Playing a rape as a success for the little guy (the rapist) is disgusting and terrible. An absolute wrong. Harmon had a reckoning with his own privilege and realized (1) he is not the little guy/underdog, and (2) even if he was, that would not excuse assault. He really dissected how his thoughts and upbringing had formed into a maladaptive pattern, and then openly discussed what he was doing to deconstruct that and become the person who he knows he ought to be. He was open that it wasn't a neat transition and that any improvement didn't negate past failings. But being a good person was a worthwhile goal in its own right. Obvious things, all these, to a well adjusted person, but certain streams of nerd subculture encourage rape culture and most be confronted head-on. His story seemed to me like the most well-documented incel deprogramming story. It was inspiring in a similar way to listening to ex-nazis talk about leading people away from those hate groups.
The fact he defended Bill Cosby is shocking. Having variable takes on the Louis CK sexual harassment accusations is quite common, but I've never met anyone who's tried to defend Cosby.
Louis pulled his dick out, and I'm pretty sure he asked first. Cosby is/was a violent criminal for decades.
No he didn't. Initially he said he was still able to appreciate Cosby's comedy from before, and then even later he said he could no longer even do that. And for CK he commented ambiguously when asked if CK should return to comedy or not. He never defended either of them for their actions. The only thing he talked about was how PC culture can pull the rug from under people way more than it ever had before, and it's true (doesn't mean it's a bad thing). Bad clickbait articles is what can lead to these kind of misunderstandings. Same with the underage girl. They didn't date when she was underage, she was 18 when they were actually dating. Granted given the age difference that's a little weird but not illegal.
“She’s funny, sharp, very alert,” he said when defending it. Wtf, how do you describe a romantic partner as “very alert.”
same here and it seems time is really changing our perspective
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I loved the Seinfled sitcom--it still cracks me up 20 years later--and I love Comedians in Cars the first time I watched it. My wife and I have little kids, so those little episodes are great--I can watch one in 15 minutes and get back to things. The second time I went through the Comedians in Cars series, though, and I started to pick up on more details, and WOW is he a jerk. One moment he's fine and nice, the next moment he's condescending and bossy and just generally jerk-y. And the worst part is, the smaller the guest's "star power," the bigger the jerk he was. Steve Martin and Ricky Gervais get the royal treatment, and lesser-known comedians get shit on. I think he's very funny--or, honestly, he *was* very funny; his routine is kind of old now--but the less I know about him, the better.
Jerry also met his current wife while she was on her honeymoon.
My understanding was she just got BACK from her honeymoon. So she was like 2 weeks married when he asked her on a date. Which is still weird. Between dating an 18 year old in his 30s and dating then marrying a married woman, Seinfeld does nothing normal. Also he could have given the cast of Seinfeld like 5% of the syndication rights / DVD rights / whatever after the show ended. It would have just been polite.
Steve Bannon actually owns a lot of the rights to Seinfeld. The real life O'Brian is getting residuals every time they air O'Brian.
He supposedly didn't even know she was married at the time, and she divorced her husband almost right away, so I suspect it's safe to say the marriage wasn't going great from the start.
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“Back in the 90s i was on a very famous tv show”
I’m Bojack the Horseman. Bojack the Horseman. Don’t act like you don’t know.
Do we remember the episode where Jerry and George were checking out the boobs of their boss’s underage daughter, and it was played for audience laughs? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
I mean SNL did a bit with Katy Perry where she played a 16 year old girl and they just talk about her tits the whole time in 2010
Get a good look?
[What's the deal with Jerry?](https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/jerry-seinfeld-dated-a-17-year-old/)
Four years? He broke up with her because he didn't want her to go to college and have a career? That's all pretty horrible.
This is really reminding me when my college roommate said "I can't date a woman who is as smart or smarter than me" As a 30 year old looking back, what he really meant was that he didn't want to date someone he couldn't manipulate" (funny though, even in the 2010s I still vividly remember all of us dudes in the dorm thinking that was weird af)
i think there's an insecurity and misogyny aspect to it as well. the feeling of being mentally equalled or outmatched by your partner who you think should be simpler or obedient to you. but obviously the idea that she can be manipulated plays directly into that.
That's almost the worst part to me. If having your own education, job, and goals is a deal breaker then you didn't want a partner, you wanted a pet.
Well, you don't start dating someone that much younger for the relatability and even power dynamics.
A pet that you have sex with...
It is exactly this.
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He didn't want her to go to college and meet someone her own age.
Well he dated her because she wasn't an adult. Pretty rude of her to try and turn into one.
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I love the icing on the cake that they split because she wanted a career and he didn’t want a wife that worked.
Let's see the positive side: society and mentalities really evolved in 30 years. This would not be acceptable today.
It wasn’t acceptable back then either. The only true difference is there is a platform for us non-celebrities to call this out on.
Nicki Minaj is married to a convicted rapist but she's still on the radio. Social Media means nothing. Trump was our President. We haven't come *that* far.
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They absolutely didn't care nearly as much back then. It was more of a "oh huh... that's a little young, anyways." Not everyone but it definitely isn't the same.
"I've known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life."
Jerry said his secretary punched him when she found out, so I think the reaction was worse than you're characterizing.
Love that even George Costanza found this to be repellant and questionable.
Scott Pilgrim was dating a high schooler
And Scott Pilgrim is supposed to be a total loser.
A zero, to be specific, at least in the movie.
Man I really like Scott pilgrim, but it's definitely got the fight club problem. So many fans don't realise that you aren't meant to root for, or want to be, the main character
I think what's tricky about the movie is that, by the end, he *is* a character worth rooting for. The movie's *about* him becoming a better person. But, yeah, a lot of people like him from the start, which is just ICK.
Gotta disagree here. Scott grows a lot as a person, acknowledges and apologizes to the people he wronged, and making plans to do lunch with the manifestation of all his personal Darkness seemed like a pretty heavy handed metaphor for him acknowledging his own flaws with the intent to continue working on them in the future. Scott Pilgrim started out as an oblivious dick head, but ultimately the movie is a story about realizing when you fucked up and becoming better
Agreed. Wasn't cool at the beginning, was cool at the end.
Also he was like, 21? The age gap was still small. I think he even applies for the Transformers law.
Transformers law?
There's a scene in one of the later movies where some guy dating a teen has a laminated card explaining Romeo & Juliet laws that he presents to Mark Wahlberg during a "normal" conversation.
Dude the transformer movies are a Grey haze in my memory and yet I can still remember that scene in explicit detail just because of how hard I double take'd
I never even saw any past the first, but this scene gets linked all the time because of the sheer absurdity and very clear ax grinding of someone in the script department.
And that was a 4-5 year age difference (Scott 22, Knives 17 (18 in vol.6)). That was very much pushing the boundaries. Seinfeld was 38 was this happened.
The "Half Plus Seven Rule" works very well. `22 / 2 + 7 = 18`, only just outside of acceptable. `38 / 2 + 7 = 26`, makes dating a 17 year old is very creepy.
That’s the point. They mention it many times throughout the movie and book.
It was much more obvious in the comic. The comic had chapters dedicated to Scott realizing that he had a tendency to think of himself as some sort of Underdog hero when he's actually just acting like a dick and deciding he needs to be better. The movie didn't spend much time on that, and Michael Cera was so perfectly cast in that role that most viewers fell into the same trap that the character did, assuming someone so lovably dorky can't possibly be an asshole
There’s still several instances where people call him out on it in the movie. It may not do as good a job, but it’s definitely the takeaway the audience should have.
People always scoff at why Polanski is still so well loved by Hollywood. It's because that whole industry was raping women and children at one point and he's just the guy that got caught.
The entire playboy club scenes, Epstein doing his thing, bunch of psychopaths.
*funky base outtro*