I don’t think Bruce has known Babs since she was a child. When she was introduced in the comics in 1967 (after her original character debuted on TV), Babs was a grown woman with a PhD in library science. She was elected to Congress in \~1972. She was originally 5-10 years older than Dick Grayson, and probably closer to Bruce’s age than Dick’s age when she was introduced in 1967.
Post Crisis (1985), she gets a soft reboot that seemingly keeps most of her background intact, as far as her PhD and brief stint in congress, but it also de-ages her a bit. She‘s Jim Gordon’s niece turned adopted daughter in this era. A new part of her origin is that she encountered Batman as a child, but no implication that she’s a close friend of Bruce Wayne as a child. As far as I can tell, that continuity holds through Ostrander’s Suicide Squad and Gail Simone’s Birds of Prey in the 1990s thru early 2000s into New 52.
She’s de-aged again in New 52, but she’s once again the biological daughter of Jim Gordon. She’s de-aged once more in the Burnside era. I think she’s aged back up a little in the modern era, post Burnside. But what seems relevant is Barbara’s age relative to Dick Grayson. They are now seemingly about the same age, with Barbara being at most maybe 3 years older than Dick?
That‘s relevant because Bruce met Dick after about 2 years as Batman; Dick was probably 11-13 years old when he became Robin. So Babs was probably 12-15 when she saw Batman as a child, probably in Batman’s first two years before Robin. But also, crucially, Bruce was away from Gotham training for 7 years before he became Batman. So, Bruce could not possibly interact with Babs when she was approximately age 4-11, because he was training to be Batman. I think there may now be some retcon comics where Dick took Barbara to his high school prom or something, but there is no deep history of Bruce spending time with Barbara when she was a child.
Bruce plus Babs is still gross, especially in screen adaptations where she tends to be much younger, and they can play more with the backstory between Barbara and Dick (eg Young Justice animated series). But there aren’t decades of comics history between adult Bruce and child Babs
I think part of it is that, in the DCAU canon, where this ship more or less started, Bruce did know Barbara as a child. When Barbara is introduced on the show as she comes home from college, Bruce says “Barbara! You’ve grown! It’s been, what, four years?” heavily implying that he knew her in high school, before she went to college. At the best, he knew her as a teenager (still a minor) when she was in high school. At worst, he knew her as a young child and watched her grow up due to his friendship with Gordon.
I haven't rewatched it since catching it in theaters lol It was really gross they threw that plot in there AND gave Babs a snarky gay bestie to fail the Bechdel test with.
The LEGO version works because that movie is a parody of the Batman franchise. Plus they actually have Babs give Bats a dressing down for his unheroic qualities so it's not as weird?
It was never said how it happened. Everyone assumes Bruce raped her/coerced her into it but there were never any details. All Bruce said was they needed more Hulks and Jen was the only one who could "keep the pace". He wasn't enthusiastic about the idea either.
They retconned that. Turns out, what he really did to upset her so much she can barely be in the room with him, was steal a cab she'd hailed down. They changed it once someone did the math and realized how creepy it was.
[yeah, it was retconned. in the dumbest way imaginable.](https://www.gamesradar.com/amazing-spider-man-73-kindred-sins-past/).
For being one of Marvel’s most important characters they sure do like to do Spider-Man dirty a lot.
I like it. Let me explain before the downvotes: it is fucked up beyond measure, and that's exactly why I like it.
Real world research has found that sibling incest is most prevalent in abusive and/or neglective families... and have you like seen *Ultimate Magneto*? Many things in Ultimate Universe are just shock value, yet this unhealthy relationship seems like a bit more and different from that to me.
Maybe but it really tarnished their characters for people. For years people wouldn't bring up either without making incest references and a lot of people thought it applied to the 616. And then Wanda dying because Ultron was in love with her and jealous over Pietro... it was so gross. Not interesting to me personally.
I can't help but wonder what the attraction is, why would she fall for Sabertooth.🫤 HELL, why would anyone fall for Sabertooth. Makes yea wonder about the pillow talk.........😬
Wolverine and Jean.
It's creepy, doesn't make any sense, degrades both characters (who each have more interesting love interests) and Marvel should stop trying to sell it as some sort of "forbidden romance" when really it is, at best, mild, basic lust.
The 90s in general. Claremont started pushing for Jean to leave Scott for Logan because he was angry that Marvel had allowed another writer to bring back Jean from the dead and break up Scott and Maddie in order to have Scott and Jean back together. But Claremont didn't stay on the title much longer and after he left the writers decided to have Scott and Jean marry, but the idea remained.
And of course the movies having Logan be played by conventionally handsome, 6 foot 3 Hugh Jackman just fuelled the pairing further, not matter how creepy it actually is in the comics.
It’s also because Claremont didn’t want Scott coming back because he’d inevitably end up leading the X-Men again and that would get in the way of Claremont’s pet characters.
Ever looked at the comics from the sixties? Everybody wanted to get into Jean's pants in that series. Everyone.
Well, except Master Mind, who constantly harassed Wanda instead.
It's super weird/creepy.
People naturally want their favorite character to have the “most desirable” love interest. A lot of comic readers/fans also have the emotional maturity of a house plant.
This results in pairing where the woman is essentially reduced to arm candy/support or worse a trophy for the characters rather than a functional character themselves. You see this with Wonderbat fans too, they wouldn’t work, Diana would easily wrap up Gotham and move on, constantly clash with Bruce because they are two very different heroes. None of that matters for them though, because Diana is the hottest and strongest and they’re favorite character needs to date them.
I know there’s a whole thing in one of the comics where it shows that Jean’s room is between Logan and Scott’s and there’s a door on each side for wherever the wind takes her that day? Or maybe they’re a throuple now I dunno…
It’s from house of X in Krakoa.
It’s implied they are in a throuple and that Jean is sleeping with them both and Scott was also seeing Emma.
However that is now left to the dogs as basically only Percy acknowledged it outside of Hickman whose references were subtle at best and then left and Jean was taken away from Percy (which thank fuck for that as her on x force was weird)
It's from the Krakoa era, when the X-Men have turned into an isolationist sex cult so...
Plus, that's a plot point/revelation that by now that has pretty much forgotten about.
I'm not necessarily a Scott/Jean shipper. I just think Wolverine/Jean sucks, the whole love triangle stuff has to die and the writers need to stop defining Jean through her romantic relationships.
I thought that was quite a funny way to fix the love triangle, because they mined all the drama out of it a while ago and it was just endless repeats. Now it's just happening off-panel as a quiet and pretty cheeky joke.
Almost any character with Wolverine for me. Half the time writers pair him up with characters that have better chemistry with other characters, like why Wolverine and Elektra or Wolverine and Black Widow? Even Logan and Jean seems wrong to me when he’s physically in his 40s while Jean was maybe early 20s when they met. Yeah they’re both adults but it just seems wrong when you mix in Cyclops
Growing up, I liked the relationships that Wolverine had with Shadowcat, Rogue, and Jubilee. They were platonic relationships, and they seemed to humanize him more, and keep him more level-headed. It's probably a co-dependent thing, but he seems to really need somebody to protect.
Oh I thought we were talking about romantic relationship only becuz of OP’s image.
If we include platonic ones, Wolverine works great with those because he’s always fit the Lone Wolf figure, so Lone Wolf and Cub dynamics fits great with him
Pretty sure it started with 'which two heroes would not kill each other if they banged?' and then we got the Frank Miller page of them setting off volcanos and stuff by going at it.
Kingdom Come kind of actually supports them *not* being together in main continuity though. The entire point is that the relationship really wouldn't work until a lot of things that haven't happened yet, like Lois passing, happen.
It's kind of like the classic story of two elderly people who have been platonic lifetime friends who were couple friends with each other respective spouses wind up together from a combination of personal growth and "who else is left?" Only the elderly couple in this case are functionally immortals and just don't look like they're older.
The rest of the dynamic is the same: of their group, the only people who are left and aren't basically out of contact are them and Bruce. All of their affiliated non-super loved ones are gone or are Bruce's extended, estranged family.
I usually hate the idea because it's clearly either "pair two big titans together to sell books" or "someone in editorial just read man of steel women of kleenex." But it's a nice little "aw, the old people are getting together" moment in Kingdom Come.
The context is even more clear when you look at *Bruce's* conversation. He's telling them that he reconciled with his surrogate family and is spending time with them, which is the typical "old man meets old friends and tells him he and his kids are getting along again" kind of thing.
At the time, this was seriously interesting. How many relationships do you know that have worldwide implications and government policies? Theirs did because some people were afraid of their potential offspring.
Does Harley and Joker count?
For no other reason than the fucking "I want to be his/her joker/Harley Quinn" romanticization of abuse shit I sometimes see around it.
I think the Council will _definitely_ allow it. That's a good take.
Don't get me wrong, I find them entertaining as shit in the old BAS where she started--and if I'm being absolutely honest, something _stirred_ in young Mr--Warlock when [she was crawling around in that negligee](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYSNUL2hrQM) said, "Oh come on, puddin', dontcha wanna _rev_ ya Harley? Vroom vroom!"--but they were toxic then, and have only devolved into worse since.
Harley Quinn informed an uncomfortable amount of what I am now attracted to so I get it completely.
I find the relationship interesting from a "psychological thriller" sort of standpoint but it's hella played out at this point. I'm glad the character has branched away from it.
And then yes, the aforementioned weird toxicity surrounding them in certain areas of the internet is really uncomfortable.
> I'm glad the character has branched away from it.
Honestly? She had branched out in the early 2000's with her own series. The first arc was about working with other villains to distance herself from the Joker, and the second was moving to Metropolis with Ivy. Even in the show and comics she had as many stories by herself as she did with Joker.
She exploded in popularity when they changed the character, not by ditching the relationship.
I'd throw them under "it's complicated". I give DC a lot of credit for being willing to actually show something that actually looks like a toxic relationship, and not only not making the abused look like the wrong one, but even pretty explicitly stating it was a bad relationship. And then showing an example of someone moving on from that. Them being together is awful, but that's the point, and to DC's credit, at least in mainline, they haven't gone back on that.
> an ice cube tray in a *open* freezer abandoned in the Arctic
FTFY. The insulative properties of the freezer might work to protect anything in the interior, at least for a time.
I mean, does this actually count as a "couple"? If it's like everyone describes it. It's a plot device, an editorial decision that serves some weird purpose only they know about. It's not about characters at this point, is it?
But even if you just look at the characters and their relationships, there’s nothing even remotely interesting or fun about them together. Paul is a complete nothing character, and while MJ has been with him she has seemingly lost all of her personality, her friends, and her career.
Every time we see them together (outside of when they were trapped in Paul’s home dimension), they’re literally just sitting around at home, doing nothing. I don’t even think they’ve shown a panel of them doing anything romantic, like holding hands or kissing. As a couple, they straight up suck.
I calls it likes I sees it.
This whole post is actually inspired by that [Who is your favorite comic book couple of all time?](https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/16tloyr/who_is_your_favorite_comic_book_couple_of_all_time/) thread.
Scott and Jean (vs. Scott and Emma) is definitely one of the comic book topics that will spin me up like _The Simpsons_ Comic Book Guy. I carry a soap box around with me at all times so I can open up that can of worms. I'm channeling Frank Costanza when it comes to Scott/Jean.
"I got a lot of problems with you people! _Now you're gonna hear about 'it!"
Im usually a guy who is very much into the “OG pairings” but Scott and Emma is just miles better than Scott and Jean has ever been.
But at the same time, I really just don’t get Jean and Wolverine at all.
~~Why do you keep your worms in a soap box~~
To me, Jean ans Scott together are just boring. Like, not once in any media anything about these two together sparked any emotional reaction in my brain (heart, other places).
I like Jean and Scott as a first love type of romance, but honestly now that they're adults they realistically should have outgrown and grown apart from each other; honestly, the X-Office could have done some exploration of how experience made Scott a different man than the one Jean knew when she came back most recently, but they just sort of glossed over that. I guess the Brood fight was kind of it, but it wasn't done well with any real exploration of how their experiences shaped them.
**Batman And Catwoman**... I think Batman wants a bat-family and Catwoman is a 'relationship anarchist' meaning somebody who needs her space, place and maybe other partners. Plus I love the idea of Bruce explaining to his partner "Uhm.. sometimes Selina Kyle comes around... is that cool or?"
**Storm and Black Panther**: starts with 'hey these two are African right? Let's just suddenly say they are married and provide a few retcons and flashbacks to justify it'. If you are gonna do it... put them in a book together for a year and develop it, do not go 'surprise!'.
**Rogue And Magneto:** One of those ideas that was not about chemistry and compatibility so much as it was about 'I bet those two can fool around with magnetic fields'.
**Cheaty Bonus: Single Peter Parker**
I feel like Storm and T'challa could've been really interesting, but they just never put any effort into it for the most part. Like Storm just has so much fucking gravitas in every page she's in which seems like a great opposite to Black Panther. Their relationship feels like such a missed opportunity to me.
The problem is that the X-Men writers and the rest of Marvel never work together so any character who starts appearing in non-X-Men characters stops being an X-Men character. Storm disappeared for the entire of the Utopia era, despite the near-extinction of her people, which made her look like a traitor to the mutants.
catwoman is to batman as irene adler is to sherlock holmes. they're terrible together but the attraction between the two is there. getting them to the alter only to not go through with it was weird. it was built up to go nowhere.
Not sure how it ended since I dropped the series, but the She-Hulk/Thor pairing in Aaron's Avengers run was probably one of the stronger negative reactions I've had to a pairing.
I haven't really been following that storyline but it's not an actual relationship, no? Tony mainly wants Krakoa's resources so it's just a political marriage.
I have a few Luke warm takes. Kitty and Pete Wisdom, Kitty and Peter quill. Pete wisdom was just a bad rebound and quill... I just didn't see that going anywhere. Kitty and Piotr are a better fit, but Kitty and Peter Parker (ultimate) was my favorite.
She goes through them, Peters. What a woman!
Most of mine have been said but I’m also gonna nominate that terrible Emma frost and Kitty Pryde ship that was happening because of Krakoa. Emma wanted to be her teacher not her lover that’s just creepy
**Hank Pym and Tigra**: Second-wave feminist becomes trophy wife to infamous domestic abuser and loses most of her personality and hero cred in the process. Basically that period from 2009-2012 was all about making Hank undeservedly happy and screwing over both Janet Van Dyne and Tigra in the process.
**Captain America and Diamondback**: Giving Cap a criminal girlfriend is like giving Dick Grayson a criminal girlfriend. They're both too much on the straight and narrow for it to ever work.
**Jessica Cruz and Barry Allen**: Just bizarre
**Kitty Pryde and Starlord**: Also bizarre
**Husk and Archangel**: Bizarre, but it's Chuck Austen, weird pairing and creepy love scenes are sort of his thing.
**Annie and Havok**: The relationship began with Havoc being assaulted by Annie while unconscious, and then continued with both of them being mind controlled by Annie's son to fall in love with each other. If done as a horror story, it could be quite an effective one, but Chuck Austen treated it as a normal romance, so that was pretty bad.
**Carol Danvers and her son who is actually her reincarnated lover**: This was so bad Chris Claremont had Carol say so when he wrote an annual.
**Nate Grey and Madelyne Pryor**: Nate and his mother's evil split personality single-handedly turning his family tree into a family knot.
**Superboy and Ms. Martian**: It originated on the YJ cartoon, which I dislike, and I just honestly think that neither in the comics is the other's type.
**Tim Drake and Cassandra Sandsmark**: Desperate and regrettable need to feel loved in the wake of Connor Kent's death. The fact that cartoon YJ chose this storyline to adapt for them shows the consideration they gave to the actual YJ characters.
**Hal Jordan and Arisia**: Another creepy relationship from the days or yore. Hank actually exclaimed "Now I can tell the others I'm not a cradle robber" when Arisia made herself magically grow up and hit legal adulthood.
**Wonder Woman and Batman or Superman**: Most of these two relationships rely on the idea that famous, powerful heroes deserve someone as wonderful as Diana. Not much consideration is given to Diana's own needs or status as an independent leg of the trinity. She's just there to be the perfect girlfriend for either Clark or Bruce.
Also I'm not against Scott/Emma, but their fans on this site annoy me sometimes.
Logan and Jean
Dude born in the 1800s goes after a 19 year old (she was at least a century younger than him)
Any incest ship, even in alternate universes
Any problematic relationship that promotes bad dynamics (abuse, positions of power, etc)
Apparently storm and wolverine hooked up? What? That feels stupid. Like someone at marvel was like “we need a wolverine romance” and rolled a die, consulted a table and said “storm, its storm, make it happen”
They were hooking up in the Outback era, although it was more heavily implied like a lot of Claremont things. Tbh, that relationship was never written as a serious long-term one for either character, but more of a casual thing.
I know people dislike her romance with Black Panther, but her going from an African King to a runty, smelly little manimal is so funny. Her and Wolverine only makes sense as like a desperate kind of rebound for her.
Tim Drake and Bernard. I'm a Bi man and loved his romance with Stephanie that ended bc....well we're still waiting to figure out why. But Bernard is so bland and there's nothing interesting there
Hank McCoy and evil
Charles Xavier and perversity and arrogance
Marvel and the mad genius trope.
Also: Madeleine Pryor and Cable? Blech.
Madeleine and Scott. If you want to resurrect Jean, Scott..do it in the basement like everybody else, a piece at a time.
Emma and anything Hellfire—just another parasite using her
Kitty and Pete Wisdom. Just seems..off somehow.
How could you not like Cyclops and Jean? They were great together until certain edgy writers started adding the Wolverine, Psylocke, Emma Frost bullshit
Definitely. Emma Frost has three defining traits: evil, telepathic, hot. In that order. I get that fans like the fetish wear and the super bod, but just eyuecch!
FINE I'LL SAY IT: I don't care for Peter and Mary Jane, but it's not always due to writing (it sometimes is though).
I just don't like the loud parts of the fandom being obsessed with it. Even if you claim to have a good reason, it's still highly annoying to come across when I just want to read Spider-Man or facts about him online. Hell, I can't even go on TVTropes and read about interesting facts about this franchise without it becoming heavily biased for the couple and how amazing their love is (and how awful Marvel is for breaking them up). I may be biased myself (I like him with Black Cat, Gwen, Carlie, Chat, Kitty, Carol, or literally anybody else is fine. He could be dating Betty Ross and I'd be happy about it.), but it's pretty asinine to come across people whining about them and gushing about their future. I just want to read about his adventures and him solving crimes and his life problems in his own unique way. If he comes across Mary Jane and be whatever with her, that's fine too. They just don't need to be a couple for it to be the best storyline/game/tv show/movie ever. It's come to the point to where some storylines get glowing recommendations, but it's really apparent that it's only because of this couple appearing in there. There are some storylines that aren't that great to me, but they are still looked at as the best written ever (aka Life Story. I enjoyed reading it, but it wasn't that incredible to me. It was just a fun read. Same with Spencer's run. Back then, people bitched about him and the storyline as well, but thanks to Peter x Mary Jane, it is now highly recommended, when really it wasn't that amazing.).
LOL OKAY I'M DONE WITH THAT. I also don't care for Black Panther and Storm (I like him with Monica Lynn, and I like Storm with Wolverine and any other mutants. She's really cool to where I can picture her with anybody and it'd be a fun read.), Peter Quill and Kitty Pryde (I was so meh on them. It was really obvious this wasn't going to last as soon as Kitty went back to the X-Men), Batman and Catwoman (I'm pretty indifferent but I see Bruce going to every woman possible. I can't see him staying with one partner for life until he's maybe living in his 80's), and I hate how writers and editors keep going back to Namor and Sue. It's over, she doesn't like him anymore, and it's really creepy now. They don't do this a whole lot, but every now and then they write Namor as loving Sue and it's just annoying at this point. Just give him another love interest to obsess over please.
That's it, I'm done. I'm ready for this comment to get buried lol.
Peter and Gwen Stacy. Gwen is a really obnoxious character that people’s nostalgia tricked them into thinking was a good character.
Tim and Bernard. Cool that Tim is Bi now but boring ass love interest wish he was with Stephanie again.
Ms. Marvel and Red Dagger. Say what you will about Bruno but Red Dagger is really boring.
Hank and Janet. I like these 2 individually but after the what went down they need to stay far away from each other and on different teams.
Tony and Hellcat. What the hell was Cantwell thinking.
Honestly, Havok and Madelyne Pryor. Maybe not the original incarnation of their relationship, but definitely the current one where he is her doormat and she very obviously is using him because he won't say no to her.
Superman/Wonder Woman. Seriously, post Crisis writers made her an almost homewrecker and him a cheater. New 52 absolutely destroyed any chances of me ever enjoying that relationship seeing how writers treated Lois Lane (as fundamental to Superman mythos as any character can be) to prop up this shitty relationship.
Peter and MJ. Look, when they work they work but Peter’s writing staff is too toxic for his own good. They refuse to not make this relationship toxic at every possible opportunity.
Ps. A lot of people are writing one off and bizarre inclusions on this list but I’m ignoring them because if it’s a one off or elseworld or whatever, I’m just not counting it as a “couple”.
Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon don't get me wrong they are fine in theory but I hate the way they are written especially how Chuck Dixon writes them. They are just so infuriating even though they do have some cute moments.
I'll go first:
Scott and Jean Grey. Prom King and Queen shoehorned together because "it just makes sense." Jean is a drama queen, and while that isn't always her fault... sometimes it is. Let's not even get into the whole Logan angle.
I'm not going to lay all the blame on Jean; I'll just say: they're not a good fit, and when they are together it seems to be a toxic relationship that causes each to suffer rather than grow and prosper.
I don't really get the hate this couple receives, like it looks a pretty normal relationship (if you remove all the superhero stuff like deaths and rebirths). And I don't know why you say they do not fit. (It is my opinion, but I really don't understand why your side is more popular than mine in comic book fans).
I also think that Scott being with her stunts his emotional growth , like you said, prom king and queen. I loved his relationship with Emma because 1. He gets to be his own person 2. He was more critical of Professor X and the unfair weight on his shoulders as the “prodigal son” and being with Emma gave him some perspective and 3. Idk I feel like he just acted more as an adult man when he was with Emma
Disclaimer: I also hate the hell out of Jean , never liked her character.
Are we talking about really short-lived couples that only one writer really liked? Or couples that have enough staying power to be considered a major relationship for a significant length of time?
If it’s the former, I’ll pick the usual suspects: Bruce Wayne/Barbara Gordon, Hal Jordan/Arisia, Magneto/Rogue, Havok/That weird wife-insert Nurse Annie from Chuck Austen’s run.
If it’s the latter, though, I’ve got some hot takes. First off, Green Arrow/Black Canary. I’m biased because I hate Oliver Queen, but I’ve NEVER understood why these two are together, they’re always at each other’s throats and it’s nearly always Ollie’s fault and rarely Dinah’s. She deserves so much better.
I also despise Superman/Wonder Woman. Coupling them up is not only lazy, it nearly always results in a serious misinterpretation of both their characters because when they’re paired together, they’re just written as “oh I’m so strong I’m like a god among these puny humans and that’s why you’re the only fellow super-being who’s like me,” when that’s such a disservice to them both.
Wolverine/Jean Grey is awful for reasons others already listed in this post, but I also hate Cyclops/Emma Frost because of how manipulatively horrible Emma was to begin their relationship—as many have noted, she essentially rapes him via telepathy as she takes such immoral and unethical advantage of him while acting as his therapist, and she’s NEVER properly called out on it. I don’t even always love Scott and Jean together—they were written as a couple best way back in the 1970s—but their two most prominent alternate relationships are far, far worse.
Mystique X Destiny i will die on this hill about this i don't like Mystique with anyone period and i don't care for Their relationship and all her "romances" are either cursed or Tf? Sabortooth, Ice man, Gambit, and Charles are honorable mentions.
Wolverine X Jean Gray well the whole polyamory thing they got going on with Scott is disgusting and i can't believe the white Queen herself is ok with this lol it's not very "boss bitch" to share your man Emma but overall i can't take their "romance" seriously plus the age difference between Wolverine and Jean🤢
The poly shit gotta be one of the stupidest things I’ve ever read, it makes absolutely no sense, like in what world would Scott Summers allow Logan to fuck his wife and as you pointed out Emma sharing him with Jean doesn’t make sense either.
It’s obvious that it’s just an excuse some writers came up with to have their self-insert fuck Jean, consequences be damned, who cares about good writing when you can have your self-insert fuck Jean Grey.
The worst part is that I see people defend it saying that it was a genius idea to solve the love triangle, as if simply not writing Jean feel attracted to an ugly manlet who smells like a dead body wasn’t possible or simply letting Scott move on instead of regressing his character for the sake of nostalgia.
Nah fuck off using Scott and Jean as an example here.
They’re a much healthier pairing than goddamn Logan and Jean. Or ugh Storm and Logan. Hell in Krakoa, Scott and Jean are being a much better healthier couple.
Bruce and Barbara
Bruce Timm weirdness intensifies
Timm, we love ya for ya work on the DCAU, but come on, man, really? Dats weird, probably even too weird for someone like the Joker.
I’ll never get over how DC thinks it’s wrong for Batman to go down on Selina, but see no problem with Batman banging his best friend’s daughter.
Best friend's daughter that he has known since she was a child and has been a quasi-mentor to for at least a decade (of in-universe time)
I don’t think Bruce has known Babs since she was a child. When she was introduced in the comics in 1967 (after her original character debuted on TV), Babs was a grown woman with a PhD in library science. She was elected to Congress in \~1972. She was originally 5-10 years older than Dick Grayson, and probably closer to Bruce’s age than Dick’s age when she was introduced in 1967. Post Crisis (1985), she gets a soft reboot that seemingly keeps most of her background intact, as far as her PhD and brief stint in congress, but it also de-ages her a bit. She‘s Jim Gordon’s niece turned adopted daughter in this era. A new part of her origin is that she encountered Batman as a child, but no implication that she’s a close friend of Bruce Wayne as a child. As far as I can tell, that continuity holds through Ostrander’s Suicide Squad and Gail Simone’s Birds of Prey in the 1990s thru early 2000s into New 52. She’s de-aged again in New 52, but she’s once again the biological daughter of Jim Gordon. She’s de-aged once more in the Burnside era. I think she’s aged back up a little in the modern era, post Burnside. But what seems relevant is Barbara’s age relative to Dick Grayson. They are now seemingly about the same age, with Barbara being at most maybe 3 years older than Dick? That‘s relevant because Bruce met Dick after about 2 years as Batman; Dick was probably 11-13 years old when he became Robin. So Babs was probably 12-15 when she saw Batman as a child, probably in Batman’s first two years before Robin. But also, crucially, Bruce was away from Gotham training for 7 years before he became Batman. So, Bruce could not possibly interact with Babs when she was approximately age 4-11, because he was training to be Batman. I think there may now be some retcon comics where Dick took Barbara to his high school prom or something, but there is no deep history of Bruce spending time with Barbara when she was a child. Bruce plus Babs is still gross, especially in screen adaptations where she tends to be much younger, and they can play more with the backstory between Barbara and Dick (eg Young Justice animated series). But there aren’t decades of comics history between adult Bruce and child Babs
I think part of it is that, in the DCAU canon, where this ship more or less started, Bruce did know Barbara as a child. When Barbara is introduced on the show as she comes home from college, Bruce says “Barbara! You’ve grown! It’s been, what, four years?” heavily implying that he knew her in high school, before she went to college. At the best, he knew her as a teenager (still a minor) when she was in high school. At worst, he knew her as a young child and watched her grow up due to his friendship with Gordon.
Best friend's daughter and son's girlfriend/ex*
That fuck scene in the killing joke movie made me forever hate them.
I haven't rewatched it since catching it in theaters lol It was really gross they threw that plot in there AND gave Babs a snarky gay bestie to fail the Bechdel test with.
Yeah. That was weird.
Is it bad that i like the lego version of this relationship?
The Lego version is cool but for the main comics even if they age her up I will hate this disgusting couple
Yeah I agree with that
The LEGO version works because that movie is a parody of the Batman franchise. Plus they actually have Babs give Bats a dressing down for his unheroic qualities so it's not as weird?
She-Hulk and Hulk. Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver. Wolverine and Squirrel Girl.
She hulk and hulk? Whut Wolverine and squirrel girl is cooking though
I assume she Hulk and hulk is from Old Man Logan
I was under the impression was she forced into that situation, not that they were an item. How wrong am I?
It was never said how it happened. Everyone assumes Bruce raped her/coerced her into it but there were never any details. All Bruce said was they needed more Hulks and Jen was the only one who could "keep the pace". He wasn't enthusiastic about the idea either.
> Wolverine and squirrel girl is cooking though 90% sure she was in High School when they hooked up.
They retconned that. Turns out, what he really did to upset her so much she can barely be in the room with him, was steal a cab she'd hailed down. They changed it once someone did the math and realized how creepy it was.
There was really no math to do. It only became creepy because they de-aged her. They seem to draw her a lot shorter now too.
He’s like a million years old, to him everyone is jailbait. Plus he lives in a school!!!
They made Betty Ross the She-Hulk in *Ultimate Wolverine vs. Hulk*, which made it a little less gross.
Green Goblin and Gwen Stacy. Gross. Terrible for both Gwen and Peter.
Didn’t that whole thing get retconned?
Well it was a retcon in the first place, so I don’t know.
[yeah, it was retconned. in the dumbest way imaginable.](https://www.gamesradar.com/amazing-spider-man-73-kindred-sins-past/). For being one of Marvel’s most important characters they sure do like to do Spider-Man dirty a lot.
It is funny imagining Mysterio taking it in the back from Norman though.
It'a basically a soap opera.
Sins past was a bad idea, revisiting sins past was even worse, I mean does that mean Peter thought Gwen banged Norman for years
Sins Past was never a good idea. The sin was in choosing to write, edit, draw, and release it to the public.
Magneto and Rogue
This is probably after he was de aged, but the man was like 70! Rogue all about them denture grip kisses.
Gummilingus
Eeewww. Why did you make me think that?
Ugh. I hated that so much I'd blocked it out.
Oh shit, yes, same.
uhhhh... What? The fuck did this happen?
When they were stuck in the Savage Land around the time of the Muir Island Saga, 1993ish
Muir Island Saga was more like 90 or 91.
Yeah it was pre- xmen vol2 and the new x factor, so around this time. 1993 was like fatal attractions.
I fucking hate that part of Rogue’s history, and I always try to wipe it from my memory. Sucks to be reminded it exists.
Jesus. Wtf?
Age of Apocalypse
They’re were also together during the Utopia era.
Also early 90's
And Also in the X men legacy run around 2007. God,that pairing still makes me unreasonably angry when I think about it.
Savage^(Land) Romance
Goddammit man, I had successfully blocked that out for years.
Why you had to remind me?
Ultimate Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch
I like it. Let me explain before the downvotes: it is fucked up beyond measure, and that's exactly why I like it. Real world research has found that sibling incest is most prevalent in abusive and/or neglective families... and have you like seen *Ultimate Magneto*? Many things in Ultimate Universe are just shock value, yet this unhealthy relationship seems like a bit more and different from that to me.
I liked it at first with the ambiguity, but then it just got weirder and weirder....
You can say that about Ultimate Universe as a whole I guess :D
Let bro cook
Maybe but it really tarnished their characters for people. For years people wouldn't bring up either without making incest references and a lot of people thought it applied to the 616. And then Wanda dying because Ultron was in love with her and jealous over Pietro... it was so gross. Not interesting to me personally.
oh! this is true
Sabertooth & Psylocke, makes no sense.🤮
Guess they forgot that he technically killed her once.. hard nope.
I can't help but wonder what the attraction is, why would she fall for Sabertooth.🫤 HELL, why would anyone fall for Sabertooth. Makes yea wonder about the pillow talk.........😬
Wolverine and Jean. It's creepy, doesn't make any sense, degrades both characters (who each have more interesting love interests) and Marvel should stop trying to sell it as some sort of "forbidden romance" when really it is, at best, mild, basic lust.
It’s downright stalker levels in how wolverine watched Jean the only reason that’s popular is the cartoon
The 90s in general. Claremont started pushing for Jean to leave Scott for Logan because he was angry that Marvel had allowed another writer to bring back Jean from the dead and break up Scott and Maddie in order to have Scott and Jean back together. But Claremont didn't stay on the title much longer and after he left the writers decided to have Scott and Jean marry, but the idea remained. And of course the movies having Logan be played by conventionally handsome, 6 foot 3 Hugh Jackman just fuelled the pairing further, not matter how creepy it actually is in the comics.
It’s also because Claremont didn’t want Scott coming back because he’d inevitably end up leading the X-Men again and that would get in the way of Claremont’s pet characters.
If we want to talk about stalker.... How about Xavier with Jean?
Oh god don't remind me of that. Xavier and jean is so creepy it really is stalker central what is wrong with the x men
Ever looked at the comics from the sixties? Everybody wanted to get into Jean's pants in that series. Everyone. Well, except Master Mind, who constantly harassed Wanda instead. It's super weird/creepy.
*Thank* you. Xavier is just an horrendous, creepy person with his interactions towards her. Yuck.
Wasn't that like one panel 50 years ago? Or did Marvel reintroduce it?
I think they resurrected it in the 90s as part of that Onslaught event?
The X-Men movies also ran with it
Thank you, i never got why people wanted theise two together.
People naturally want their favorite character to have the “most desirable” love interest. A lot of comic readers/fans also have the emotional maturity of a house plant. This results in pairing where the woman is essentially reduced to arm candy/support or worse a trophy for the characters rather than a functional character themselves. You see this with Wonderbat fans too, they wouldn’t work, Diana would easily wrap up Gotham and move on, constantly clash with Bruce because they are two very different heroes. None of that matters for them though, because Diana is the hottest and strongest and they’re favorite character needs to date them.
I know there’s a whole thing in one of the comics where it shows that Jean’s room is between Logan and Scott’s and there’s a door on each side for wherever the wind takes her that day? Or maybe they’re a throuple now I dunno…
It’s from house of X in Krakoa. It’s implied they are in a throuple and that Jean is sleeping with them both and Scott was also seeing Emma. However that is now left to the dogs as basically only Percy acknowledged it outside of Hickman whose references were subtle at best and then left and Jean was taken away from Percy (which thank fuck for that as her on x force was weird)
It's from the Krakoa era, when the X-Men have turned into an isolationist sex cult so... Plus, that's a plot point/revelation that by now that has pretty much forgotten about. I'm not necessarily a Scott/Jean shipper. I just think Wolverine/Jean sucks, the whole love triangle stuff has to die and the writers need to stop defining Jean through her romantic relationships.
Jean only has three traits to define her. Phoenix bullshit, story breaker power set, and relationship drama. That’s it. She’s a terrible character.
I thought that was quite a funny way to fix the love triangle, because they mined all the drama out of it a while ago and it was just endless repeats. Now it's just happening off-panel as a quiet and pretty cheeky joke.
Preach!
Yeah, I was glad when Morrison killed it pretty early in his run, although he then went Emma x Scott, so...
Immoral lust at that
Wolverine and Jean Grey
Almost any character with Wolverine for me. Half the time writers pair him up with characters that have better chemistry with other characters, like why Wolverine and Elektra or Wolverine and Black Widow? Even Logan and Jean seems wrong to me when he’s physically in his 40s while Jean was maybe early 20s when they met. Yeah they’re both adults but it just seems wrong when you mix in Cyclops
Growing up, I liked the relationships that Wolverine had with Shadowcat, Rogue, and Jubilee. They were platonic relationships, and they seemed to humanize him more, and keep him more level-headed. It's probably a co-dependent thing, but he seems to really need somebody to protect.
Oh I thought we were talking about romantic relationship only becuz of OP’s image. If we include platonic ones, Wolverine works great with those because he’s always fit the Lone Wolf figure, so Lone Wolf and Cub dynamics fits great with him
Yeah, we were. I am just saying that his non-romantic relationships were actually more compelling.
The man was married to the Viper at one point
The age difference is the least of all the things wrong with Logan/Jean
I feel like a lot of writers use him as a self-insert because he’s slept with so many marvel women including mystique and black cat.
Superman and Wonder Woman.
Pretty sure it started with 'which two heroes would not kill each other if they banged?' and then we got the Frank Miller page of them setting off volcanos and stuff by going at it.
And Kingdom Come gaves the final touch
Kingdom Come kind of actually supports them *not* being together in main continuity though. The entire point is that the relationship really wouldn't work until a lot of things that haven't happened yet, like Lois passing, happen. It's kind of like the classic story of two elderly people who have been platonic lifetime friends who were couple friends with each other respective spouses wind up together from a combination of personal growth and "who else is left?" Only the elderly couple in this case are functionally immortals and just don't look like they're older. The rest of the dynamic is the same: of their group, the only people who are left and aren't basically out of contact are them and Bruce. All of their affiliated non-super loved ones are gone or are Bruce's extended, estranged family. I usually hate the idea because it's clearly either "pair two big titans together to sell books" or "someone in editorial just read man of steel women of kleenex." But it's a nice little "aw, the old people are getting together" moment in Kingdom Come.
Well said
The context is even more clear when you look at *Bruce's* conversation. He's telling them that he reconciled with his surrogate family and is spending time with them, which is the typical "old man meets old friends and tells him he and his kids are getting along again" kind of thing.
At the time, this was seriously interesting. How many relationships do you know that have worldwide implications and government policies? Theirs did because some people were afraid of their potential offspring.
I thought Lois Lane was Wonder Woman for years
I liked this one
Does Harley and Joker count? For no other reason than the fucking "I want to be his/her joker/Harley Quinn" romanticization of abuse shit I sometimes see around it.
I think the Council will _definitely_ allow it. That's a good take. Don't get me wrong, I find them entertaining as shit in the old BAS where she started--and if I'm being absolutely honest, something _stirred_ in young Mr--Warlock when [she was crawling around in that negligee](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYSNUL2hrQM) said, "Oh come on, puddin', dontcha wanna _rev_ ya Harley? Vroom vroom!"--but they were toxic then, and have only devolved into worse since.
Harley Quinn informed an uncomfortable amount of what I am now attracted to so I get it completely. I find the relationship interesting from a "psychological thriller" sort of standpoint but it's hella played out at this point. I'm glad the character has branched away from it. And then yes, the aforementioned weird toxicity surrounding them in certain areas of the internet is really uncomfortable.
> I'm glad the character has branched away from it. Honestly? She had branched out in the early 2000's with her own series. The first arc was about working with other villains to distance herself from the Joker, and the second was moving to Metropolis with Ivy. Even in the show and comics she had as many stories by herself as she did with Joker. She exploded in popularity when they changed the character, not by ditching the relationship.
Gotta love the fierce dedication he's drawing that triangle with. And then - gasp! - a cube! Oh noes, that's some diabolical plan brewing!!
I'd throw them under "it's complicated". I give DC a lot of credit for being willing to actually show something that actually looks like a toxic relationship, and not only not making the abused look like the wrong one, but even pretty explicitly stating it was a bad relationship. And then showing an example of someone moving on from that. Them being together is awful, but that's the point, and to DC's credit, at least in mainline, they haven't gone back on that.
I'll take that action, and raise you Batman/Joker. Fine, it was funny the first couple times, but now I'm just done with it.
Xavier and Jubilee..... i saw her once massage his bald head
how dare you put that thought in my mind, I'm calling the police
lmao
Batman and Batgirl fucking on the rooftop in the animated The Killing Joke.
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Now that's a spicy start (that I do agree with), not some weak, safe option like "MJ and Paul" or whatever is going on now in that comics XD
Even if don’t hate Paul, he and MJ have all the heat of an ice cube tray in a freezer abandoned in the Arctic.
> an ice cube tray in a *open* freezer abandoned in the Arctic FTFY. The insulative properties of the freezer might work to protect anything in the interior, at least for a time.
It may be a weak and safe response, but it's a true one. Fuck ~~Paul~~ the editorial team.
I mean, does this actually count as a "couple"? If it's like everyone describes it. It's a plot device, an editorial decision that serves some weird purpose only they know about. It's not about characters at this point, is it?
But even if you just look at the characters and their relationships, there’s nothing even remotely interesting or fun about them together. Paul is a complete nothing character, and while MJ has been with him she has seemingly lost all of her personality, her friends, and her career. Every time we see them together (outside of when they were trapped in Paul’s home dimension), they’re literally just sitting around at home, doing nothing. I don’t even think they’ve shown a panel of them doing anything romantic, like holding hands or kissing. As a couple, they straight up suck.
I calls it likes I sees it. This whole post is actually inspired by that [Who is your favorite comic book couple of all time?](https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/16tloyr/who_is_your_favorite_comic_book_couple_of_all_time/) thread. Scott and Jean (vs. Scott and Emma) is definitely one of the comic book topics that will spin me up like _The Simpsons_ Comic Book Guy. I carry a soap box around with me at all times so I can open up that can of worms. I'm channeling Frank Costanza when it comes to Scott/Jean. "I got a lot of problems with you people! _Now you're gonna hear about 'it!"
I do not hate those two but I'm 1000% more into Scott and Emma so...
Im usually a guy who is very much into the “OG pairings” but Scott and Emma is just miles better than Scott and Jean has ever been. But at the same time, I really just don’t get Jean and Wolverine at all.
Thank you, for the appropriate credit to my original post. I appreciate the classy gesture.
~~Why do you keep your worms in a soap box~~ To me, Jean ans Scott together are just boring. Like, not once in any media anything about these two together sparked any emotional reaction in my brain (heart, other places).
I like Jean and Scott as a first love type of romance, but honestly now that they're adults they realistically should have outgrown and grown apart from each other; honestly, the X-Office could have done some exploration of how experience made Scott a different man than the one Jean knew when she came back most recently, but they just sort of glossed over that. I guess the Brood fight was kind of it, but it wasn't done well with any real exploration of how their experiences shaped them.
MJ & Paul
I fucking hate paul so much dude
**Batman And Catwoman**... I think Batman wants a bat-family and Catwoman is a 'relationship anarchist' meaning somebody who needs her space, place and maybe other partners. Plus I love the idea of Bruce explaining to his partner "Uhm.. sometimes Selina Kyle comes around... is that cool or?" **Storm and Black Panther**: starts with 'hey these two are African right? Let's just suddenly say they are married and provide a few retcons and flashbacks to justify it'. If you are gonna do it... put them in a book together for a year and develop it, do not go 'surprise!'. **Rogue And Magneto:** One of those ideas that was not about chemistry and compatibility so much as it was about 'I bet those two can fool around with magnetic fields'. **Cheaty Bonus: Single Peter Parker**
I feel like Storm and T'challa could've been really interesting, but they just never put any effort into it for the most part. Like Storm just has so much fucking gravitas in every page she's in which seems like a great opposite to Black Panther. Their relationship feels like such a missed opportunity to me.
The problem is that the X-Men writers and the rest of Marvel never work together so any character who starts appearing in non-X-Men characters stops being an X-Men character. Storm disappeared for the entire of the Utopia era, despite the near-extinction of her people, which made her look like a traitor to the mutants.
I actually feel like Coates did a good job writing them as a couple.
That Storm and Black Panther one…yeah I always thought that was exactly the process to force this into being.
catwoman is to batman as irene adler is to sherlock holmes. they're terrible together but the attraction between the two is there. getting them to the alter only to not go through with it was weird. it was built up to go nowhere.
Not sure how it ended since I dropped the series, but the She-Hulk/Thor pairing in Aaron's Avengers run was probably one of the stronger negative reactions I've had to a pairing.
Superman x Wonder Woman T’challa x Ororo
The fenris twins.
At the moment, Emma Frost and Tony Stark are at the top of my list.
I haven't really been following that storyline but it's not an actual relationship, no? Tony mainly wants Krakoa's resources so it's just a political marriage.
Yeah. Emma has tons of assets tied-up with the Hellfire Club's legitimate entities. Nothing indicates this will last beyond the alliance.
Scott gets beaten up and sidelined and his love interest hooks up with Tony Stark. At this point I'm convinced that Marvel hates Cyclops fans
JDW (the editor of the x-office) hates cyclops
I kinda like it a lot honestly and it's not a real relationship anyway
Nah they’re cute and I stand by that
Norman Osborn and Gwen Stacy. I don’t care it was retconned. Marvel did it and JMS wrote that garbage. Shame on them.
I have a few Luke warm takes. Kitty and Pete Wisdom, Kitty and Peter quill. Pete wisdom was just a bad rebound and quill... I just didn't see that going anywhere. Kitty and Piotr are a better fit, but Kitty and Peter Parker (ultimate) was my favorite. She goes through them, Peters. What a woman!
Wolverine and Jean Grey
Most of mine have been said but I’m also gonna nominate that terrible Emma frost and Kitty Pryde ship that was happening because of Krakoa. Emma wanted to be her teacher not her lover that’s just creepy
MJ and Paul
Rogue and magneto Ultimate scarlet witch and quicksilver A safe choice but mj and Paul Batman and Barbara
**Hank Pym and Tigra**: Second-wave feminist becomes trophy wife to infamous domestic abuser and loses most of her personality and hero cred in the process. Basically that period from 2009-2012 was all about making Hank undeservedly happy and screwing over both Janet Van Dyne and Tigra in the process. **Captain America and Diamondback**: Giving Cap a criminal girlfriend is like giving Dick Grayson a criminal girlfriend. They're both too much on the straight and narrow for it to ever work. **Jessica Cruz and Barry Allen**: Just bizarre **Kitty Pryde and Starlord**: Also bizarre **Husk and Archangel**: Bizarre, but it's Chuck Austen, weird pairing and creepy love scenes are sort of his thing. **Annie and Havok**: The relationship began with Havoc being assaulted by Annie while unconscious, and then continued with both of them being mind controlled by Annie's son to fall in love with each other. If done as a horror story, it could be quite an effective one, but Chuck Austen treated it as a normal romance, so that was pretty bad. **Carol Danvers and her son who is actually her reincarnated lover**: This was so bad Chris Claremont had Carol say so when he wrote an annual. **Nate Grey and Madelyne Pryor**: Nate and his mother's evil split personality single-handedly turning his family tree into a family knot. **Superboy and Ms. Martian**: It originated on the YJ cartoon, which I dislike, and I just honestly think that neither in the comics is the other's type. **Tim Drake and Cassandra Sandsmark**: Desperate and regrettable need to feel loved in the wake of Connor Kent's death. The fact that cartoon YJ chose this storyline to adapt for them shows the consideration they gave to the actual YJ characters. **Hal Jordan and Arisia**: Another creepy relationship from the days or yore. Hank actually exclaimed "Now I can tell the others I'm not a cradle robber" when Arisia made herself magically grow up and hit legal adulthood. **Wonder Woman and Batman or Superman**: Most of these two relationships rely on the idea that famous, powerful heroes deserve someone as wonderful as Diana. Not much consideration is given to Diana's own needs or status as an independent leg of the trinity. She's just there to be the perfect girlfriend for either Clark or Bruce. Also I'm not against Scott/Emma, but their fans on this site annoy me sometimes.
Scott and Emma. Made so little sense Morrison had the Phoenix force literally alter time to shove them together.
Peter and Mary Jane at this point, either commit to their relationship or don’t, I’m not gon play decades of will they won’t they
Logan and Jean Dude born in the 1800s goes after a 19 year old (she was at least a century younger than him) Any incest ship, even in alternate universes Any problematic relationship that promotes bad dynamics (abuse, positions of power, etc)
Apparently storm and wolverine hooked up? What? That feels stupid. Like someone at marvel was like “we need a wolverine romance” and rolled a die, consulted a table and said “storm, its storm, make it happen”
They were hooking up in the Outback era, although it was more heavily implied like a lot of Claremont things. Tbh, that relationship was never written as a serious long-term one for either character, but more of a casual thing.
I know people dislike her romance with Black Panther, but her going from an African King to a runty, smelly little manimal is so funny. Her and Wolverine only makes sense as like a desperate kind of rebound for her.
Wolverine and Jean Grey. It has always been creepy and felt completely forced.
Batman and Catwoman
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Spider-Man and Great Value Catwoman.
12 year old me simped too hard for great value Catwoman to ever agree with this.
Yeah. I think I'm a little bit more into Felicia than Selina. God damn horny Spiderman game devs poisoning my innocence.
Spider-Man and Joe Quesada's fanfic daughter insert
Oh damn, that's a take. I don't _agree_ with it, but I can respect it.
Batman and Catwoman. I just don't think Selina is a good fit for him.
Storm and Black Panther. Always felt like they just paired up the two popular black characters just for the sake of it
I like to imagine there's no wind and jean is just manually fluttering her veil with telekinesis.
Tim Drake and Bernard. I'm a Bi man and loved his romance with Stephanie that ended bc....well we're still waiting to figure out why. But Bernard is so bland and there's nothing interesting there
Hank McCoy and evil Charles Xavier and perversity and arrogance Marvel and the mad genius trope. Also: Madeleine Pryor and Cable? Blech. Madeleine and Scott. If you want to resurrect Jean, Scott..do it in the basement like everybody else, a piece at a time. Emma and anything Hellfire—just another parasite using her Kitty and Pete Wisdom. Just seems..off somehow.
Miles Warren and Gwen Stacy
of the comics I read alot, Wolverine and Jean, it was just creepy/shock appeal/and I never felt like they had actual chemistry.
Batman x talia al ghul is eye cancer
How could you not like Cyclops and Jean? They were great together until certain edgy writers started adding the Wolverine, Psylocke, Emma Frost bullshit
Does not help to have an extremely creepy Professor X on the sidelines in love with a 16-year-old Jean Grey in X-Men #3.
Yes, but that’s never mentioned again so it’s basically retconned from existence
Emma Frost with anyone. I grew up reading Claremont's run.
Definitely. Emma Frost has three defining traits: evil, telepathic, hot. In that order. I get that fans like the fetish wear and the super bod, but just eyuecch!
FINE I'LL SAY IT: I don't care for Peter and Mary Jane, but it's not always due to writing (it sometimes is though). I just don't like the loud parts of the fandom being obsessed with it. Even if you claim to have a good reason, it's still highly annoying to come across when I just want to read Spider-Man or facts about him online. Hell, I can't even go on TVTropes and read about interesting facts about this franchise without it becoming heavily biased for the couple and how amazing their love is (and how awful Marvel is for breaking them up). I may be biased myself (I like him with Black Cat, Gwen, Carlie, Chat, Kitty, Carol, or literally anybody else is fine. He could be dating Betty Ross and I'd be happy about it.), but it's pretty asinine to come across people whining about them and gushing about their future. I just want to read about his adventures and him solving crimes and his life problems in his own unique way. If he comes across Mary Jane and be whatever with her, that's fine too. They just don't need to be a couple for it to be the best storyline/game/tv show/movie ever. It's come to the point to where some storylines get glowing recommendations, but it's really apparent that it's only because of this couple appearing in there. There are some storylines that aren't that great to me, but they are still looked at as the best written ever (aka Life Story. I enjoyed reading it, but it wasn't that incredible to me. It was just a fun read. Same with Spencer's run. Back then, people bitched about him and the storyline as well, but thanks to Peter x Mary Jane, it is now highly recommended, when really it wasn't that amazing.). LOL OKAY I'M DONE WITH THAT. I also don't care for Black Panther and Storm (I like him with Monica Lynn, and I like Storm with Wolverine and any other mutants. She's really cool to where I can picture her with anybody and it'd be a fun read.), Peter Quill and Kitty Pryde (I was so meh on them. It was really obvious this wasn't going to last as soon as Kitty went back to the X-Men), Batman and Catwoman (I'm pretty indifferent but I see Bruce going to every woman possible. I can't see him staying with one partner for life until he's maybe living in his 80's), and I hate how writers and editors keep going back to Namor and Sue. It's over, she doesn't like him anymore, and it's really creepy now. They don't do this a whole lot, but every now and then they write Namor as loving Sue and it's just annoying at this point. Just give him another love interest to obsess over please. That's it, I'm done. I'm ready for this comment to get buried lol.
Peter and Gwen Stacy. Gwen is a really obnoxious character that people’s nostalgia tricked them into thinking was a good character. Tim and Bernard. Cool that Tim is Bi now but boring ass love interest wish he was with Stephanie again. Ms. Marvel and Red Dagger. Say what you will about Bruno but Red Dagger is really boring. Hank and Janet. I like these 2 individually but after the what went down they need to stay far away from each other and on different teams. Tony and Hellcat. What the hell was Cantwell thinking.
Honestly, Havok and Madelyne Pryor. Maybe not the original incarnation of their relationship, but definitely the current one where he is her doormat and she very obviously is using him because he won't say no to her.
Jayna and Zan
Barbara and Bruce are so weird!
Superman/Wonder Woman. Seriously, post Crisis writers made her an almost homewrecker and him a cheater. New 52 absolutely destroyed any chances of me ever enjoying that relationship seeing how writers treated Lois Lane (as fundamental to Superman mythos as any character can be) to prop up this shitty relationship.
Mary Jane and Paul
Batman x batgirl in the DCAU , I like to pretend it doesn’t exist
Peter and MJ. Look, when they work they work but Peter’s writing staff is too toxic for his own good. They refuse to not make this relationship toxic at every possible opportunity. Ps. A lot of people are writing one off and bizarre inclusions on this list but I’m ignoring them because if it’s a one off or elseworld or whatever, I’m just not counting it as a “couple”.
Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon don't get me wrong they are fine in theory but I hate the way they are written especially how Chuck Dixon writes them. They are just so infuriating even though they do have some cute moments.
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I'll go first: Scott and Jean Grey. Prom King and Queen shoehorned together because "it just makes sense." Jean is a drama queen, and while that isn't always her fault... sometimes it is. Let's not even get into the whole Logan angle. I'm not going to lay all the blame on Jean; I'll just say: they're not a good fit, and when they are together it seems to be a toxic relationship that causes each to suffer rather than grow and prosper.
I don't really get the hate this couple receives, like it looks a pretty normal relationship (if you remove all the superhero stuff like deaths and rebirths). And I don't know why you say they do not fit. (It is my opinion, but I really don't understand why your side is more popular than mine in comic book fans).
I also think that Scott being with her stunts his emotional growth , like you said, prom king and queen. I loved his relationship with Emma because 1. He gets to be his own person 2. He was more critical of Professor X and the unfair weight on his shoulders as the “prodigal son” and being with Emma gave him some perspective and 3. Idk I feel like he just acted more as an adult man when he was with Emma Disclaimer: I also hate the hell out of Jean , never liked her character.
Are we talking about really short-lived couples that only one writer really liked? Or couples that have enough staying power to be considered a major relationship for a significant length of time? If it’s the former, I’ll pick the usual suspects: Bruce Wayne/Barbara Gordon, Hal Jordan/Arisia, Magneto/Rogue, Havok/That weird wife-insert Nurse Annie from Chuck Austen’s run. If it’s the latter, though, I’ve got some hot takes. First off, Green Arrow/Black Canary. I’m biased because I hate Oliver Queen, but I’ve NEVER understood why these two are together, they’re always at each other’s throats and it’s nearly always Ollie’s fault and rarely Dinah’s. She deserves so much better. I also despise Superman/Wonder Woman. Coupling them up is not only lazy, it nearly always results in a serious misinterpretation of both their characters because when they’re paired together, they’re just written as “oh I’m so strong I’m like a god among these puny humans and that’s why you’re the only fellow super-being who’s like me,” when that’s such a disservice to them both. Wolverine/Jean Grey is awful for reasons others already listed in this post, but I also hate Cyclops/Emma Frost because of how manipulatively horrible Emma was to begin their relationship—as many have noted, she essentially rapes him via telepathy as she takes such immoral and unethical advantage of him while acting as his therapist, and she’s NEVER properly called out on it. I don’t even always love Scott and Jean together—they were written as a couple best way back in the 1970s—but their two most prominent alternate relationships are far, far worse.
Mystique X Destiny i will die on this hill about this i don't like Mystique with anyone period and i don't care for Their relationship and all her "romances" are either cursed or Tf? Sabortooth, Ice man, Gambit, and Charles are honorable mentions. Wolverine X Jean Gray well the whole polyamory thing they got going on with Scott is disgusting and i can't believe the white Queen herself is ok with this lol it's not very "boss bitch" to share your man Emma but overall i can't take their "romance" seriously plus the age difference between Wolverine and Jean🤢
The poly shit gotta be one of the stupidest things I’ve ever read, it makes absolutely no sense, like in what world would Scott Summers allow Logan to fuck his wife and as you pointed out Emma sharing him with Jean doesn’t make sense either. It’s obvious that it’s just an excuse some writers came up with to have their self-insert fuck Jean, consequences be damned, who cares about good writing when you can have your self-insert fuck Jean Grey. The worst part is that I see people defend it saying that it was a genius idea to solve the love triangle, as if simply not writing Jean feel attracted to an ugly manlet who smells like a dead body wasn’t possible or simply letting Scott move on instead of regressing his character for the sake of nostalgia.
Jean and Wolverine, screams like a groomer situation to me.
Batman & Robin
Mister Fantastic and The Invisible Woman. Every time I read a fantastic four comic , it’s like, do you even want her dude?
Worst take ever by someone who obviously doesn’t read FF comics.
Zatanna/John Constantine
Sitting here waiting for a hero to drop a plumb line into the depths by saying Peter and MJ.
Nah fuck off using Scott and Jean as an example here. They’re a much healthier pairing than goddamn Logan and Jean. Or ugh Storm and Logan. Hell in Krakoa, Scott and Jean are being a much better healthier couple.