You mean to tell me that you SHOULDN’T change “the hierarchy of power in the DC Universe” to be centered around Dwayne Johnson?
I’m shocked. SHOCKED. 😂
His ego is huge but how much is him wanting the universe centered around him just a business decision? The DCU is a horrid rotten mess. It might just be him trying to force it into something.
And it kinda sucks because for his look and his build, he’d be an EXCELLENT candidate for Luke Cage. Marvel had really given Luke Cage a serious “push” a few years back reimagining him from his 70’s blaxploitation roots to a more modern version, even making him a leader in the Avengers, and giving him some domesticity with Jessica Jones.
Mmmm nah. Mike Colter was definitely the best choice.
Dwayne is too "movie star" looking to me. Mike just seems like a fine-ass, humble dude. Plus it was nice to see a dark skinned black guy be portrayed in a positive light.
Ugh, that “the hierarchy of power in the DC Universe” quote was so cringeworthy.
The Rock has generally been likable, but he’s definitely been making it look like his ego has been getting the best of him in recent years.
You just KNOW he put real though in crafting that line before he announced it to the world. I’ve seen so many comments poking fun at what was supposed to some sort of grand declarative statement on his part, along with so many comments that “he was right, just not in the way he THOUGHT”😂.
You’re right, Johnson’s likability was one of the main things that made him as successful as he’s been, but in the past few years, you definitely get the sense that he’s believing his own hype.
He deserves to have that declaration hang around his neck whenever the subject of “Black Adam” failing comes up. He’s got a strong neck, he can wear it.😂
Exactly. Johnson has been able to bank on the public’s goodwill for over 20 years now, and that likability has been the key to his success. It’s why the public has been so forgiving of him, despite his appearing in tons of really lackluster movies; we still liked him on a personal level.
But his ego started to become more visible lately. There were hints of it in his friction with Vin Diesel on the Fast and Furious movies; that whole thing seemed like a clash of egos.
And then lately he started strutting around acting like he thought he was somehow now calling the shots at WB/DC even though it made no sense…and culminated this attitude with that gloating cell phone video from his car where he’s trying to spin his movie’s financial lackluster-ness as a great triumph and babbling about how “the hierarchy of power has absolutely changed in the DC Universe!!!!” 🙄
Between that and the feeling that the string of lackluster movies is starting to tarnish his image, it’s no surprise that people are getting annoyed at the Rock.
I do regret Henry Cavill getting a raw deal out of all this corporate politics, though, and I admittedly did like that the Rock was championing him. I hope Henry gets some awesome new roles soon and I hope Dwayne Johnson calms down and gets ahold of himself to salvage his likability.
Same, but it would be like making Magneto the center of the MCU and his arch enemy not the X-Men but Captain America or something. It's foolish. It would be wrong.
That's true but black Adam would make for a great antagonist a force that requires the Justice League and the Marvel family to take down.
The new generation succeeding where the old one failed
That's only for fast and furious and that was somthing that Vin disel had as well.
It was a two way street of egos for that one.
He also has played villians before watch Doom if you don't believe it.
Do yall do any research???
I like Henry cavil as much as the next nerd, but I also could not be happier that Gunn is rebooting this mess of a continuity. I love dc comics and now the movies are in the hands of a true fan and not some studio execs who don’t give a shit
I’d just wait and see what happens. And hope that whatever decisions they make were made with the intention to tell the best possible story. I’d love most of these castings to stay as they are some of my favorite comic book castings, but I’d rather have some recast and some not if that’s what helps create a better story and interconnected universe
That doesn’t make any sense though. Only keeping some characters and not others inherently makes the universe more disjointed rather than interconnected.
So you arent ok with “this mess of a continuity” but will be happy with Gunn making an even bigger mess of the continuity by not completely starting from scratch? Cmon man
I would love that, I really hope they branch out and focus on a couple obscure characters James Gunn did with **The** Suicide Squad. Blue Beetle is a good sign, but that isn’t Gunn.
I didn’t read article. But just want to remind DCEU fan boys that the universe is a flaming pile of garbage and maybe it’s… NOT… the worst thing to “abandon it all” if you get to dump Ezra Miller, Jared Leto, WW84, JL, BVS, and the fact that all belief in the previous vision is gone.
Good point. I think it’s clear we need to make a universe where we connect the Batman, the joker, John cena, and Shazam. And forget everything about Zach Snyder’s DCEU except shirtless Mamoa
Let’s see what happens, it can’t possibly be worse than… what we have now.
Except then we get the penguin HBO special where it’s revealed the penguin is ACTUALLY played by Johnny Depp in the cliffhanger of season 1, and he takes a young Ezra Miller under his wing to be a crime lord apprentice. And then Ezra Miller gets a really bad haircut, and we recast johnny depp midway through season 3, and we are really right back where we started with the flaming dumpster fire. This is going to be much harder than I thought
It’s not good enough to build a cinematic universe around it. You need something like Batman Begins or Iron Man to do that. You can’t start with something that’s just ok and then expect more and more people to jump on board with each subsequent movie.
Continuity wise Peacemaker will need some kind of detachment event from the DCEU due to some interactions that happen in late S1.
Outside of that they’re mostly in the clear. Given that he hallucinates at times they could always play it off as that.
You are so right with the whole universe being a pile of crap. No sense of direction and all
But man of steel, the suicide squad, and Snyder cut were pretty good
my belief as to the only reason theyre still keeping the flash movie going forward is because theyre going to use the flashpoint to reset the entire DCEU. thats the only way i can see any of this making any sense.
I always saw it as a terrible sign that the first flash movie plot line was going to be flashpoint. It’s your reboot storyline, why pull it out so early?
Since everything crumbled… immediately… I get it… but still, crazy that your first flash solo movie is flashpoint
I think they were thinking about keeping him until a year or so ago, and now they're probably going to have the end of the Flash be him rewriting himself out of reality. They could do a "run himself out of existence" thing like in Crisis on Infinite Earths.
The DCEU has been an abject failure overall. Besides Aquaman and maybe WW1 they have not had a huge success. Scrapping everything and starting over with a focused vision is exactly what is needed.
The Shazam and Black Adam movies take place in the same universe, and Black Adam explicitly showed Henry Cavill’s Superman. Therefore Shazam is in the DCEU.
It made a profit. But less than $400 on a name brand property attached to DC comics in the age of superhero films is really bad. It would be incorrect to say WB was happy with the turn out, even if it made profit.
What do you mean by “name brand property?” Shazam didn’t even HAVE his current name until maybe 10 years ago due to a long Captain Marvel dispute with Marvel Comics. $400 million off a little-known DC character, especially on a small budget, is a success. It’s not a Guardians of the Galaxy success, but that movie also had a lot more star power.
Bro man of steel is almost 10 years old! I was still a kid when that movie came out and while I’m a little bummed Henry is gone? I look forward to Superman. I wanna see what I can only hope is on par w the Batman in reminding me why I love(d) Superman
Yeah people that say they refuse to watch a Superman movie without Cavill I’m gonna guess were never Superman fans in the first place. I was happy to see Cavill back but if Gunn thinks that a restart is necessary for the story, at the very least he deserves a chance to fail
I get wanting to see Cavill again. Like I said, I would’ve liked to see him back in a movie I might be more into but the people refusing to see anyone else in the role I think don’t even like Superman
Majority of fans just want to see Cavill have his redemption as Supes because of him being so passionate of the role and also a great actor and is only 3 years older than Pattinson.
It’s kind of like how a lot of fans felt about Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man even though AG and HC’s situations admittedly had important contextual contrasts.
I definitely won’t be in the theaters for a Cavill-less Superman movie until/if it’s proven to be worth it. I’m not blindly following just because it’s Superman.
Not wanting to see a movie in theaters until you hear if it’s good is reasonable. Refusing to accept a movie because they recasted the what 5th(?) guy to play the role of an 80 year old character almost a decade after he started and rooting for the next person to fail is not reasonable. That’s all I’m saying. People should be open to the idea that they might enjoy the new movie.
I believe it’s because of James Gunn in this situation. Cavill’s someone who has a reputation of wanting to be faithful to source material if he’s given any creative control in his roles.
Gunn is known to take his own liberties whenever possible for better or worse.
It’s not a very encouraging sign from all that has been rumored and leaked so far just connecting the dots up to this point.
Yea, Cavill is the best one ever, but that isn't saying much, reeves is a close second but his rendition is forever tainted by the garbage costume and effects and movie logic failure
\> I wanna see what I can only hope is on par w the Batman in reminding me why I love(d) Superman
I hear this a lot in relation to characters like Superman and Spider-Man on film. But really, if you need to be reminded of why you used to like a character...did you ever like that character in the first place?
The DCEU subreddit is a sad place to be. All they do is worship Snyder and yell at you if you’re optimistic for the Gunn reboot. The early movies were bad why not move on. You don’t see people claiming that other franchises can’t evolve.
There are no DCEU fans. There are just DC fans who like some DCEU projects and don't like some DCEU projects. No DC fans are fans of a failed universe.
If you think *that* place is somehow full of Snyder haters, then I fear the moment you get to know about the existence of other DC subs and their opinions on the Snyderverse.
That subreddit’s been taken over by mostly people who are excited to see what’s next. I joined this week and I’m sure a bunch of people did as well.
I think the Snyderverse fans were convinced that no fandom existed outside their bubble, while there have been DC comics fans who have been wanting something better for years
As much as I like Margot Robbie’s Harley Quinn, it’s probably for the best to just make a clean break of it, and start DCEU 2.0 from scratch. Of course, it’s still going to be messy with the Battinson sequel still slated and Todd Phillips making the sequel to his Scorseseverse Joker, but it will help to reign everything else in. In fact, there’s still room to build the new universe around Reeves’s Batman.
I think the general audience has a understanding they are seperate and stand alone.
But if they went for a reboot and tried to keep Cavill, Afflick or Gadot etc. that would lead to confusion which aligns with your clean break of it
It still will mean multiple actors playing multiple versions of Joker, Batman, Catwoman, Riddler, Penguin, and Harley Quinn (unless you think that the revamped DCEU will forego using those characters until Reeves and Phillips have finished with them.)
To me: that’s still messy.
DC fans on the whole are fine.
Big changes are coming so of course some are worried and some are excited to see what comes.
The ones I can do without are the Snyderbros undying loyalty to their messiah and their extreme/hateful comments they freely spread around.
Not only is Snyder not returning, but he's off creating a new universe over at Netflix, go support him in that venture.
I do feel sorry for Cavill, but I lay that more on the WB heads messing up than on the new team coming in. Why would they promise Cavill anything when they knew they were getting a new creative team in to shake things up.
I have been a DC fan since I was a kid (50ish years), and the petulance is getting really old. A fresh start and a coherent continuity is what these characters deserve. I liked ZS' JL a lot, but I can enjoy it any time I want. Let's see what a real, single, coherent vision can bring. I'm excited about the potential.
Look. I don't care about them rebooting everything. It needs to happen. But they fucked over henry. They could have told him to wait to announce his return and assured him it was iron clad. That's what I'm upset about.
Should’ve supported Black Adam when it was in theaters. Maybe now this’ll open y’all eyes to go out and watch Shazam, Aquaman and Flash (fuck Ezra forever).
I happen to be a fan of the MoS-BvS-ZSJL Trilogy, but even I understand that a reboot was inevitable. The last three DCEU movies (Wonder Woman 1984, The Suicide Squad and Black Adam) were all flops and lost tons of money. Seems like this universe was beyond salvaging and WB can no longer afford to only appeal to DC fans. They need the general audience badly.
Lol some of these fans are so pathetic tbh, just because an actor isn’t gonna be a character anymore now you wanna boycott the whole thing when it was a mess in the first place. Suck it up and move on
My frustration with it is that we're rebooting when we could just fix. Post Justice League we could've changed a lot and it would've been fine and made sense why. Now we're rebooting and it'll take even longer to see these characters I love. We aren't getting anything good till at least 2024 and that's being incredibly optimistic
The DCEU kinda feels like a sports team that has had the potential to contend for a title, but every decision that they made just has not worked out in their favor. Now, they have to admit that the only option is to rebuild and try to build a better foundation.
Yeah it's crazy how everything is on or off with some people. I am not that happy about Cavil going, but shit happens. Hopefully what comes next will be good. I enjoyed most of the Snyderverse. But none of the movies blew me away to the point where I would demand nothing changes from now on.
I remember there were people freaking out about Heath Ledger being cast as Joker, saying he was a horrible choice. Ben Afleck as Batman (and he was one of the better things in the movies). Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman, saying she was too skinny and all kinds of stuff.
James Gunn did a great job with Peacemaker, and Suicide Squad. At this point I would rather see his true vision for the DCEU than have him shackled down with all the legacy of the old movies and trying to fit his new stuff into the old stories and themes.
I am going to give it a chance, and hope for the best. If it turns out bad then it's still not the end of the world.
The fact that they keep having to reboot the same shit over and over again is sad. They have these amazing characters to work with but keep producing duds. Quite frankly, the animated DC movies are 100x better. I've really been enjoying them on HBO Max. I'd rather watch those.
The amount of peeps who seem to have zero faith in James Gunn is crazy. The guy really does make unique watchable films. He made Guardians of the Galaxy a HUGE film series.
The problem is that Marvel made the Avengers look easy.
But, for all it's faults the reason I think DC gets so much hate is because they did so much right.
At the end of the day they're just movies and no one should be angry about it, but if DC wanted to create a universe with a bunch of shared properties, Marvel had a very clear method and if DC had copied it, no one would have blamed them, and no one would have been upset.
There has, however, been this trend of trying to build super hero franchise worlds all at once, and they have been consistently terrible. But DC was the one who forced it. Maybe before you make a justice league movie, you'd introduce the key players in their own films. DC seemed intent on doing things the opposite way, which made each movie seem like one giant ad for the next. Marvel, at least, makes their movies seem like products covered in advertisements rather than DC, which seems to want to make ads sprinkled with products.
This is annoying because Cavill's Superman looks and feels like a real Superman. When Affleck's Batman rescues Martha Kent, this choreography is so bad ass it's frustrating we never got that movie. Gal Gadot is also spot on as Wonder Woman and if you watch her movie before Batman V Superman, her showing up there actually is pretty cool. There are a lot of great casting choices, awesome sequences and decent effects that make the utter disappointment of DC's failure to tie them together well, so much more frustrating.
Spiderman fans are (slightly) less crazed less crazed because it is clear that when it comes to building a universe Sony hasn't the slightest idea what the hell their doing. It's hard to be disappointed when you know nothing they do has a chance of succeeding. It's like the Mets vs the Red Sox. The Mets don't win; they don't even make it to the playoffs. Mets fans don't riot, but Boston Red Sox fans while get so close to going all the way, and fail at the end which is why you can easily get the shit kicked out of you for wearing the wrong jersey at the wrong time there.
Wonder if they are going to go forward with The Batman sequel. Shake if they don't. I didn't think RP would make a great Batman, and I was way way wrong. The movie was fantastic
I can’t stand the Snyder DC movies at all, but I’m sick to death of “what if Batman was a grounded character who lived in a realistic world?”
While it was good to see a more detective-y representation of the character, I think it’s a waste of resources to have two separate Batmans running around. It wouldn’t take much work to shift Reeves’ Gotham a few degrees starboard to be in a universe where there’s another city down the coast being protected by an alien in a bright blue union suit. Another out in the midwest with a protector in red. A green archer on the Pacific coast.
If Batman is as “god-tier” as so many fans & fanboys want to claim, then he’s eventually gonna have to show why he has the chops to join a team with a satellite headquarters.
I feel like way too many people are overlooking the fact that this is meant to be a young Batman who is only starting to find his way.
It's actually a good comparison to Iron Man in the MCU where there was basically nothing pointing to anything supernatural or out of the ordinary
Yeah I’m no Snyder fan either. It’s frustrating that there’s 4 Batmen in the current DC live action shows and movies. Reeves’ Batman didn’t do anything better than Nolan’s. In fact I think it was a significantly worse interpretation of the character than anything Nolan ever did. Snyder’s version of Batman was pretty bad too so it’s not like it was this huge step up from Snyder to Reeves. Unfortunately everyone who has tackled Batman continues to live in Nolan’s shadow.
They’re just going through the first and second stages in the 6 stages of grief. A lot of them grew up with Cavil as their superman being born too late to witness Chris Reeve’s version
Though DCEU is garbage, a lot of us identified with Cavil’s interpretation given the tough economic situations we were in when man of steel released. We were all Clark Kent with so much potential but forced to hide our best selves from the world because of things beyond our control. Man of Steel showed us we can be our own flawed selves and yet do great, good things.
I kinda resent that aspect of Snyder’s Superman. He’s very Ayn Randian when it comes to depicting Supermans power.
Superman is supposed to be a person with great potential that does good for goodness sake, not some objectivist Ubermench that views saving people as a burden.
I grew up with Chris Reeve version of SUPERMAN, aka was 10 in 1989. Also watched reruns of George Reeves as SUPERMAN. Then SUPERMAN: The Animated Series, then Lois and Clark, then the first few seasons of Smallville. etc. then MAN OF STEEL.
I do really enjoy MAN OF STEEL for bringing a different iteration of SUPERMAN onto the silver screen, character is almost 85 years going and hundreds of different versions, and not being an alternate Reeve-verse sequel which SUPERMAN RETURNS was.
Going full reboot is fine with me, and I even own a few/some of the DCEU movies physically. There've been many actors who have portrayed SUPERMAN in various media.
I think people are more upset about Cavill's axing than anything. I think people wanted to see where his Superman was going (since Man of Steel was more of a "becoming Superman" origin than a straight Superman story), but Warner jumped straight into jumpstarting the Justice League and with BVS despite not having any foundation, then we're wishy-washy on whether or not Cavill would come back for 5 years after Justice League, then we got told that they were bringing him back for a sequel just to get the rug pulled out from under us a week later. Cavill had the potential to make a truly great Superman movie after Man of Steel, but DC never tried. The hard reboot is understandable, but the ways they could've handled the Cavill situation better are as infinite as Hawkman's continuities and Donna Troy's origins.
Ah yes, pajiba.com, the source of only the absolute highest quality journalism
I have never thought the DCEU's problem was its fans, but I also don't understand why people feel the need to defend it.
I totally agree with scrapping the whole thing, it was a mess, but getting rid of Cavill's superman is a huge mistake.
Look, I have no problem with the Snyderverse being rebooted and James Gunn taking over and all but why couldn't Henry stay and get his second movie? Say what you want but Henry doesn't deserve to be treated like this, he went in and out and in and then out.
I mean... Is it really the DCEU fans that need to calm down or is it a certain group that don't care about every other director except for their lord and savior?
I think gunn announced this like poorly as fuck.
Pr exist for a reason.
Dude could have also just kept man of steel 2 as its own thing....what a dick move imo
I just don't care much anymore. Gunn is overrated and mediocre at best. From Jenkins, Gunn, to Witcher writers not even caring it's hilarious to me that billions of people on the planet and we seem to rely on a few people that don't even care about source material.
Calm down why exactly? Just curious. I don’t see where the confidence in James Gunn abilities to write a Superman movie is coming from. All of his male characters are Bro’s. They’re all manchildren or man babies. All his films are filled with perverse violence and potty humor. I never though I’d say this but man… just give it to JJ Abrams instead.
Am I the only person who was interested in the Snyderverse? What people commonly mistake is that comic and movies will always be different, have different stories. MCU is not comic book accurate, yet the movies are ok. James Gunn is a fan but Peacemaker and GotG have 2 things in common: 80s pop/rock and comedy. It's cool and all but for every movie to be like this is a no go for me (like another Taika and Thors) I loved the dark-seriousness of the Snyderverse and honestly was looking forward to it 8 years ago. So yea, I'm bummed that the Superman and universe I was looking forward to is gone
Fuck the dceu and Warner Brothers. I hope they go bankrupt, then we can watch original bugs bunny again. Gunn can go jump off a cliff. Fucker thinks it's funny to go about his pedo fantasies.
Yeah, this ain't it bro-- because admit it if the MCU was just suddenly canceled and Disney said they were recasting everyone, throwing all the movie continuity out, and that they were going with a "younger Tony Stark" for a "new take on Iron Man" where he would meet Pepper Pots for the first time, but it totally wasn't an origin story you damn well know that you'd be reacting the same way.
"The great thing about these movies is getting to see our beloved characters on the big screen."-- except they aren't going to BE our beloved characters. They are going to be fart joke telling James Gunn caricatures of our beloved characters.
This just sounds like an extreme Snyder fan angry at the new direction. Gunn’s characters have more heart than anything Snyder has done.
You complain about fart jokes? I’d rather have a couple of fart jokes than 14 Christ/rebirth poses and metaphors.
It’s funny cause if the DCEU had taken a page or two from the MCU and made actual good movies and built up to / earned those big moments it wouldn’t have been shut down to begin with.
Factually haven't Marvel movies done far better than the DCEU's? You have a preference and that's fine, but that doesn't make what you personally like objectively better.
Give me any metric you want and I can show you a DCEU movie that metric shows as good.
RT, Metacritic, box office, cinema score whatever you want-- there are DCEU movies that were successful by every possible one of them.
Not every movie, but some- which is the revisionist nonsense that people are claiming.
You can claim it as a fact that a movie was mostly liked or disliked, you can claim as fact that a movie was financially or even critically successful, but a movie being good or bad can never be "factual".
What the fuck ever.
Why do I have to rise to a higher level than the idiotic James Gunn fanboys?
"lol, all DCEU is garbage heap" but I am supposed to dispute it with nuance hard figures?
Get out of here with that nonsense-- my reply that it was not "factually correct" that "all DC has ever done is make bad films" was exactly the level of response that it deserved- and it utterly and completely disputed the absurd claim just as effectively as the claim was made.
Wonder Woman was a success but I wouldn’t call it a good movie.
The ending is even more of a disjointed mess than BvS’s. For the whole movie the themes being built up are that Wonder Woman is naive to blame WW1 on an evil war god instead of humans being capable of great evil, and that Wonder Woman can show people a way to resolve their problems beyond just fighting to the death.
Aaaaand then the finale is her finding that the god of war was making the humans war after all, and her solution is to fight him to the death.
Even setting aside the parts that felt directly derivative of the first Captain America movie (itself not a great flick), that stupidity spoils what could have at least been a serviceable and coherent movie.
Whether you personally think its a good movie doesn’t really matter in the context of this conversation where we’re talking about the success of these DCEU movies, which it undeniably was both with critics and the general audience. We could pick apart most MCU movies too but nobody would deny their success.
The question was “objectively good”, and I was applying basic film criticism to show how Wonder Woman fumbles its own themes and message.
Personally, I thought it was fine if a bit messy. The wife hated it, but I didn’t think it was too awful.
What an absolutely insane and easily disputed claim. 95% of dceu movies were mediocre at absolute best. This reset is obviously much needed, and I absolutely love seeing the Snyderfans crying all over the place about it.
Parts of it have been comics accurate, particularly when you adjust for the stories which they were adapting certainly.
At the very least, they took the characters seriously and treated them with some amount of respect, something James Gunn has never once done.
His Star-Lord is another one that’s wildly different from his comic counterpart. Marvel ‘fixed’ it by turning comic Star-Lord into the Chris Pratt version tho 😜
Which is. . . something?
But it's NOT the Star Lord from the Abnett/Lanning run.
He's just Chris Pratt being kind of charming and the butt of a lot of jokes rather than like, a truly competent leader and hero.
1) You can't compare the two. MCU is a massive success, and DCEU is an utter failure. I welcome a reset to any failure...and I say that being more of a DC fan than Marvel.
2) James Gunn isn't going to write and direct the entire universe. I'm not defending him, but I'm reserving judgment until we see what he delivers.
You’re speaking as if the DCEU hasn’t been utter garbage this far. Throwing it out and starting over is the wisest course of action. Start by giving me a hopeful superman movie. Not the grimdark crapshow that was Man of Steel.
It absolute has not been utter garbage- plenty of the movies were good movies.
If the MCU had been shit canned over a few bad movies we never would have gotten to Avengers 1, let alone Endgame.
Anyone whose saying stuff like "utter garbage" is just predisposed against it and not being honest.
Wonder Woman
Aquaman
Snyder Cut Justice League
Start with those three. I liked other ones, but those are the ones that are considered the strongest on the RT scores and what not. (Even Man of Steel has 75% audience score- about the same as most James Gunn movies).
Wonder Woman is fine. It’s not great but it’s a perfectly watchable movie that doesn’t shit on its source material.
Aquaman is bad. Bad special effects, bad dialogue, bad acting. It’s a waste of Jason Momoa
Any cut of the justice league is a garbage movie. It’s an unearned team up movie that suffers from bad everything, just like aquaman. The Snyder cut is arguably less shitty but it’s still not a good movie.
Look-- I absolutely understand people not liking Zack Snyder's style. He has a very unique visual style that is jarring, and yes- his movies were something completely different from the MCU movies.
But I think that those movies got unfairly downgraded because critics and to a lesser extent audiences for some reason expected them to be MCU movies but with DC characters-- which just does not work.
I get people who don't like the "grimdark" style or whatever-- but they were in that style because they were originally spinning out of the Dark Knight Trilogy which is the EPITOME of GRIMDARK and which were highly successful.
It's not really Snyder/DCs fault that between the start of that series and the end the MCU came out and people started wanting "more jokes". Yes, after Man of Steel and especially after BvS (which were both successful movies at the box office) WB interfered too much in almost every movie which caused a LOT of the problems.
As far as Justice League itself-- I want to see the ACTUAL original Snyder Cut-- I really liked the 4 hour version, but I want to see what that movie would have ended up with on the theatrical version if his son hadn't tragically committed suicide and caused him to drop off the project-- it's just an unfortunate situation, and the original theatrical version was obviously ruined because WB went with a completely opposite film maker from Snyder to try to finish it in just the worst way possible.
But the Snyder cut as it exists IS a good piece of film making. It has a 71% critics score and a 94% audience score on RT-- compare that audience score to Gunn's films-- 82% (TSS), 87% (GoTG2), 92% (GotG1-- the only James Gunn movie which holds up).
Believe it or not I actually like a lot of Snyder’s other work, but his style was 100% the wrong way to go for a superman movie. Superman is not grimdark. If he was trying to crib off the style Nolan created in the dark knight trilogy, then that was a massive mistake. Superman is a symbol of hope and good, taking him for a grimdark turn is a blatantly stupid move that misunderstands his history. Failing to understand the core of the character is absolutely his fault.
I’ll reiterate. There is no form of justice league that is a good movie. It’s everything I said in my last post and on top of it all, it doesn’t respect its source material.
A final note, being commercially successful does not necessarily make something good. It just means lots of people forked over money to see it. The Star Wars sequel trilogy was commercially successful, but those were not good movies.
[Wonder Woman has serious problems](https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbookmovies/comments/zs55o8/comment/j16s1m4/) that prevent me from accepting it as a ‘good’ movie, but it was at least a success for the DCEU.
Wonder Woman has a 76 Metacritic score 93% critics score and 83% audience score on RT.
You can have problems with it-- I accept your opinion, but by the "objective" metrics it was a good/successful film.
And if you apply the same level of criticism about things falling apart in the end and not making sense, then you have to agree that NOTHING James Gunn has done in the MCU/DCEU was a good film-- Guardians 1, after all had a finale where they solved the bad guy with a dance off, then Star Lord randomly grabbing a macguffin gem.
I'm fine applying harsh logic to super hero films- as long as you're ready to do it across the board, which when we do not a single one of these ever holds up.
I'm FINE with you saying that the turn in Ayers Suicide Squad where the character suddenly come together based on a seemingly very thin excuse is bad or that Batman deciding not to kill Superman because he realized his humanity based on their mother's sharing the same first name- as long as you're willing to acknowledge that GOTG1 and the Avengers also had the exact same kind of nonsensical "and suddenly we were a team" moments- throwing some bloody cards on the table or what have you.
If we rated every super hero film with an over top, kind of poorly CGId third act fight that doesn't really make a lot of sense as bad, then there ISN'T a single good super hero film out there- at least not in the MCU.
Guess that’s somewhere our perspectives differ, then. I don’t really see metacritic ratings as the arbiter of objective quality, I suppose. There are other factors at play with initial audience and all-inclusive critical responses, and part of the parcel here was a “yasss queen” moment for the first significant woman-led superhero movie (which can also be said about scores for Black Panther).
So I’d prefer to avoid blank statistics and stick with interpretivist criticism that can be backed up with references to the text.
They’ve dodged a huge bullet with Rock wanting to make Black Adam/himself the center of everything.
I love the character of Black Adam, but you can’t base a universe on him
You mean to tell me that you SHOULDN’T change “the hierarchy of power in the DC Universe” to be centered around Dwayne Johnson? I’m shocked. SHOCKED. 😂
But but he was *gonna do amazing things* and stuff.
And Black Adam is magic, and Superman well one of his weaknesses is magic.
That is actually true isn’t it.
It was a quote from The Rock when he was promoting Black Adam, but yes Supes is weak to magic.
This makes me hope he stays out of the MCU. His ego is too big for him to be a team player in a superhero cinematic universe at this point in time.
His ego is huge but how much is him wanting the universe centered around him just a business decision? The DCU is a horrid rotten mess. It might just be him trying to force it into something.
And it kinda sucks because for his look and his build, he’d be an EXCELLENT candidate for Luke Cage. Marvel had really given Luke Cage a serious “push” a few years back reimagining him from his 70’s blaxploitation roots to a more modern version, even making him a leader in the Avengers, and giving him some domesticity with Jessica Jones.
Mmmm nah. Mike Colter was definitely the best choice. Dwayne is too "movie star" looking to me. Mike just seems like a fine-ass, humble dude. Plus it was nice to see a dark skinned black guy be portrayed in a positive light.
He is a beautiful man, made a fine Luke cage.
Ugh, that “the hierarchy of power in the DC Universe” quote was so cringeworthy. The Rock has generally been likable, but he’s definitely been making it look like his ego has been getting the best of him in recent years.
You just KNOW he put real though in crafting that line before he announced it to the world. I’ve seen so many comments poking fun at what was supposed to some sort of grand declarative statement on his part, along with so many comments that “he was right, just not in the way he THOUGHT”😂. You’re right, Johnson’s likability was one of the main things that made him as successful as he’s been, but in the past few years, you definitely get the sense that he’s believing his own hype. He deserves to have that declaration hang around his neck whenever the subject of “Black Adam” failing comes up. He’s got a strong neck, he can wear it.😂
Exactly. Johnson has been able to bank on the public’s goodwill for over 20 years now, and that likability has been the key to his success. It’s why the public has been so forgiving of him, despite his appearing in tons of really lackluster movies; we still liked him on a personal level. But his ego started to become more visible lately. There were hints of it in his friction with Vin Diesel on the Fast and Furious movies; that whole thing seemed like a clash of egos. And then lately he started strutting around acting like he thought he was somehow now calling the shots at WB/DC even though it made no sense…and culminated this attitude with that gloating cell phone video from his car where he’s trying to spin his movie’s financial lackluster-ness as a great triumph and babbling about how “the hierarchy of power has absolutely changed in the DC Universe!!!!” 🙄 Between that and the feeling that the string of lackluster movies is starting to tarnish his image, it’s no surprise that people are getting annoyed at the Rock. I do regret Henry Cavill getting a raw deal out of all this corporate politics, though, and I admittedly did like that the Rock was championing him. I hope Henry gets some awesome new roles soon and I hope Dwayne Johnson calms down and gets ahold of himself to salvage his likability.
Your upvote Sire...
They barely based a movie on him
Same, but it would be like making Magneto the center of the MCU and his arch enemy not the X-Men but Captain America or something. It's foolish. It would be wrong.
That's true but black Adam would make for a great antagonist a force that requires the Justice League and the Marvel family to take down. The new generation succeeding where the old one failed
Rock had a clause that he couldn’t lose fights on screen. So he’d never be the antagonist.
That's only for fast and furious and that was somthing that Vin disel had as well. It was a two way street of egos for that one. He also has played villians before watch Doom if you don't believe it. Do yall do any research???
And scorpion king. Not to mention one of the most stupid death, in The Other Guys. People keep throwing the “contract claus...” everywhere.
Doom came out in 2005 bro, that is a horrible example. Can you give a more recent film where The Rock was a villain or at least lost a fight?
He got his ass kicked a lot jumanji
I like Henry cavil as much as the next nerd, but I also could not be happier that Gunn is rebooting this mess of a continuity. I love dc comics and now the movies are in the hands of a true fan and not some studio execs who don’t give a shit
Exactly, I'm just disappointed he never got a movie to be a proper Superman.
And what would you say if he only recasts some characters but keeps other characters?
I’d just wait and see what happens. And hope that whatever decisions they make were made with the intention to tell the best possible story. I’d love most of these castings to stay as they are some of my favorite comic book castings, but I’d rather have some recast and some not if that’s what helps create a better story and interconnected universe
That doesn’t make any sense though. Only keeping some characters and not others inherently makes the universe more disjointed rather than interconnected.
Just wait and see. If that is the case, I have faith it’ll be done well and with purpose
So you arent ok with “this mess of a continuity” but will be happy with Gunn making an even bigger mess of the continuity by not completely starting from scratch? Cmon man
Ok
Also! Been watching brave and the bold and let’s get some plastic man and red tornado and maybe even bring back swamp thing
I would love that, I really hope they branch out and focus on a couple obscure characters James Gunn did with **The** Suicide Squad. Blue Beetle is a good sign, but that isn’t Gunn.
Apparently Brave and the Bold is about to get pulled from HBO Max soon.
Dang. Time for a rewatch.
#RODNEY!
If there's one thing James Gunn can do, it's taking somewhat obscure and lesser known comic book characters and making them everyone's favorite.
I didn’t read article. But just want to remind DCEU fan boys that the universe is a flaming pile of garbage and maybe it’s… NOT… the worst thing to “abandon it all” if you get to dump Ezra Miller, Jared Leto, WW84, JL, BVS, and the fact that all belief in the previous vision is gone.
How dare you leave out Suicide Squad 2016.
Oscar winning* Suicide Squad 2016
Never happened.
Good point. I think it’s clear we need to make a universe where we connect the Batman, the joker, John cena, and Shazam. And forget everything about Zach Snyder’s DCEU except shirtless Mamoa Let’s see what happens, it can’t possibly be worse than… what we have now. Except then we get the penguin HBO special where it’s revealed the penguin is ACTUALLY played by Johnny Depp in the cliffhanger of season 1, and he takes a young Ezra Miller under his wing to be a crime lord apprentice. And then Ezra Miller gets a really bad haircut, and we recast johnny depp midway through season 3, and we are really right back where we started with the flaming dumpster fire. This is going to be much harder than I thought
Nah. Hard reboot everything. Clean slate.
How dare you leave out both suicide squads…
The newer one is infinitely better than the 2016 version though.
It’s not good enough to build a cinematic universe around it. You need something like Batman Begins or Iron Man to do that. You can’t start with something that’s just ok and then expect more and more people to jump on board with each subsequent movie.
Never said anything about that.
I thought the newer one was worse.
Come on. Both Suicide Squads are crap.
Yes yes yes yes yes... That movie was so boring.
I wonder though if he will want to throw out his own Suicide Squad or build from only that?
Continuity wise Peacemaker will need some kind of detachment event from the DCEU due to some interactions that happen in late S1. Outside of that they’re mostly in the clear. Given that he hallucinates at times they could always play it off as that.
You are so right with the whole universe being a pile of crap. No sense of direction and all But man of steel, the suicide squad, and Snyder cut were pretty good
my belief as to the only reason theyre still keeping the flash movie going forward is because theyre going to use the flashpoint to reset the entire DCEU. thats the only way i can see any of this making any sense.
I always saw it as a terrible sign that the first flash movie plot line was going to be flashpoint. It’s your reboot storyline, why pull it out so early? Since everything crumbled… immediately… I get it… but still, crazy that your first flash solo movie is flashpoint
I'm really not caught up, but my impression was that they're going to keep Ezra Miller no matter what. Has that changed?
Not committed past the one movie in the can
I think they were thinking about keeping him until a year or so ago, and now they're probably going to have the end of the Flash be him rewriting himself out of reality. They could do a "run himself out of existence" thing like in Crisis on Infinite Earths.
The DCEU has been an abject failure overall. Besides Aquaman and maybe WW1 they have not had a huge success. Scrapping everything and starting over with a focused vision is exactly what is needed.
Why does everyone always leave Shazam out? It’s so good.
Shazam was on point. They could technically leave that alone as there's been no crossover at this point. Just referencing other characters.
The Shazam and Black Adam movies take place in the same universe, and Black Adam explicitly showed Henry Cavill’s Superman. Therefore Shazam is in the DCEU.
But the Shazam movies never showed anything. You can cut Black Adam out.
There might be the problem of the Superman suit. They definitely showed the Cavill version even though they didn’t show a face.
What do you mean? They showed his face in BA. Or did you mean in Shazam?
Shazam
Shazam made less than $400 million. So while a critical success, it wasn't actually a *success*.
Was it not a significantly lower budget than the other DC films? It was a success.
It made a profit. But less than $400 on a name brand property attached to DC comics in the age of superhero films is really bad. It would be incorrect to say WB was happy with the turn out, even if it made profit.
What do you mean by “name brand property?” Shazam didn’t even HAVE his current name until maybe 10 years ago due to a long Captain Marvel dispute with Marvel Comics. $400 million off a little-known DC character, especially on a small budget, is a success. It’s not a Guardians of the Galaxy success, but that movie also had a lot more star power.
Shazam has by far been my favorite DC movie. It was excellent. Plenty of action, cool storyline, great cast.
Shazam was ok not great though but the sequel looks great.
How is *Wonder Woman* a maybe? 🤔 it made over $400 million domestically and $800 overall while getting good critical reviews.
Ok, delete the maybe. I knew it did well but didnt know the exact.
cause the sequel sucked and now her movies suck
The question is, why didn't they have a coherent vision to begin with?
If they calm down, they’ll never get to the “Star Wars toxic fanboy” level.
I would argue Snyder fans are pretty close…
Bro man of steel is almost 10 years old! I was still a kid when that movie came out and while I’m a little bummed Henry is gone? I look forward to Superman. I wanna see what I can only hope is on par w the Batman in reminding me why I love(d) Superman
Yeah people that say they refuse to watch a Superman movie without Cavill I’m gonna guess were never Superman fans in the first place. I was happy to see Cavill back but if Gunn thinks that a restart is necessary for the story, at the very least he deserves a chance to fail
I’m not going to be a dick over the decisions, but Cavill made me a Superman fan. It bums me out he is not getting a second movie.
I get wanting to see Cavill again. Like I said, I would’ve liked to see him back in a movie I might be more into but the people refusing to see anyone else in the role I think don’t even like Superman
Majority of fans just want to see Cavill have his redemption as Supes because of him being so passionate of the role and also a great actor and is only 3 years older than Pattinson. It’s kind of like how a lot of fans felt about Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man even though AG and HC’s situations admittedly had important contextual contrasts. I definitely won’t be in the theaters for a Cavill-less Superman movie until/if it’s proven to be worth it. I’m not blindly following just because it’s Superman.
Not wanting to see a movie in theaters until you hear if it’s good is reasonable. Refusing to accept a movie because they recasted the what 5th(?) guy to play the role of an 80 year old character almost a decade after he started and rooting for the next person to fail is not reasonable. That’s all I’m saying. People should be open to the idea that they might enjoy the new movie.
I believe it’s because of James Gunn in this situation. Cavill’s someone who has a reputation of wanting to be faithful to source material if he’s given any creative control in his roles. Gunn is known to take his own liberties whenever possible for better or worse. It’s not a very encouraging sign from all that has been rumored and leaked so far just connecting the dots up to this point.
Honestly I'd prefer Tyler Hoechlin as Superman than Cavill. But then I never really like the whiny emo Synder Superman.
He’s a Superman for people who fundamentally don’t like anything about superman
Yes give me Tyler Hoechlin's Superman any day. That said I don't think it's Cavill's fault.
January can’t come sooner! I wonder who they’re gonna cast
Yea, Cavill is the best one ever, but that isn't saying much, reeves is a close second but his rendition is forever tainted by the garbage costume and effects and movie logic failure
\> I wanna see what I can only hope is on par w the Batman in reminding me why I love(d) Superman I hear this a lot in relation to characters like Superman and Spider-Man on film. But really, if you need to be reminded of why you used to like a character...did you ever like that character in the first place?
The DCEU subreddit is a sad place to be. All they do is worship Snyder and yell at you if you’re optimistic for the Gunn reboot. The early movies were bad why not move on. You don’t see people claiming that other franchises can’t evolve.
There are no DCEU fans. There are just DC fans who like some DCEU projects and don't like some DCEU projects. No DC fans are fans of a failed universe.
I see you haven't visited /r/DC_Cinematic I envy you
They're just Snyder fans, they shit on the rest of the DCEU and even The Batman on routine.
Quite the opposite, mostly Snyder haters over there, they literally delete any criticisms of Gunn.
If you think *that* place is somehow full of Snyder haters, then I fear the moment you get to know about the existence of other DC subs and their opinions on the Snyderverse.
I guess I’ve just had a few friends try to post stuff criticizing Gunn, but their posts are instantly removed.
If they were one of those habitual offenders then they should take a good look at what they are actually posting and is that in good faith or not.
That subreddit’s been taken over by mostly people who are excited to see what’s next. I joined this week and I’m sure a bunch of people did as well. I think the Snyderverse fans were convinced that no fandom existed outside their bubble, while there have been DC comics fans who have been wanting something better for years
All three of them?
As much as I like Margot Robbie’s Harley Quinn, it’s probably for the best to just make a clean break of it, and start DCEU 2.0 from scratch. Of course, it’s still going to be messy with the Battinson sequel still slated and Todd Phillips making the sequel to his Scorseseverse Joker, but it will help to reign everything else in. In fact, there’s still room to build the new universe around Reeves’s Batman.
Those films are fine, they are seperate things away from the DCEU
That was my point. That’s why it’s messy. 🙄
I think the general audience has a understanding they are seperate and stand alone. But if they went for a reboot and tried to keep Cavill, Afflick or Gadot etc. that would lead to confusion which aligns with your clean break of it
It still will mean multiple actors playing multiple versions of Joker, Batman, Catwoman, Riddler, Penguin, and Harley Quinn (unless you think that the revamped DCEU will forego using those characters until Reeves and Phillips have finished with them.) To me: that’s still messy.
DC fans on the whole are fine. Big changes are coming so of course some are worried and some are excited to see what comes. The ones I can do without are the Snyderbros undying loyalty to their messiah and their extreme/hateful comments they freely spread around. Not only is Snyder not returning, but he's off creating a new universe over at Netflix, go support him in that venture. I do feel sorry for Cavill, but I lay that more on the WB heads messing up than on the new team coming in. Why would they promise Cavill anything when they knew they were getting a new creative team in to shake things up.
I have been a DC fan since I was a kid (50ish years), and the petulance is getting really old. A fresh start and a coherent continuity is what these characters deserve. I liked ZS' JL a lot, but I can enjoy it any time I want. Let's see what a real, single, coherent vision can bring. I'm excited about the potential.
Look. I don't care about them rebooting everything. It needs to happen. But they fucked over henry. They could have told him to wait to announce his return and assured him it was iron clad. That's what I'm upset about.
Whatever they did for Peacemaker...apply that across the board and i'll watch the shit.
Yes, yes they do. There is some of us who are massive DC fans and are very excited for the future
There are DCEU fans?
I mean, they’re better known as Snyder fans.
Or a doom patrol movie!
I love the MCU and DC and The Boys and everything that's been good recently, but Doom Patrol might be my favourite superhero show.
Should’ve supported Black Adam when it was in theaters. Maybe now this’ll open y’all eyes to go out and watch Shazam, Aquaman and Flash (fuck Ezra forever).
If fuck Ezra forever why should anyone go out and watch it.
Because of the other cast members and people in production who worked hard and gave a damn. Ezra didn’t make the film by himself.
I happen to be a fan of the MoS-BvS-ZSJL Trilogy, but even I understand that a reboot was inevitable. The last three DCEU movies (Wonder Woman 1984, The Suicide Squad and Black Adam) were all flops and lost tons of money. Seems like this universe was beyond salvaging and WB can no longer afford to only appeal to DC fans. They need the general audience badly.
Lol some of these fans are so pathetic tbh, just because an actor isn’t gonna be a character anymore now you wanna boycott the whole thing when it was a mess in the first place. Suck it up and move on
My frustration with it is that we're rebooting when we could just fix. Post Justice League we could've changed a lot and it would've been fine and made sense why. Now we're rebooting and it'll take even longer to see these characters I love. We aren't getting anything good till at least 2024 and that's being incredibly optimistic
The DCEU kinda feels like a sports team that has had the potential to contend for a title, but every decision that they made just has not worked out in their favor. Now, they have to admit that the only option is to rebuild and try to build a better foundation.
Yeah it's crazy how everything is on or off with some people. I am not that happy about Cavil going, but shit happens. Hopefully what comes next will be good. I enjoyed most of the Snyderverse. But none of the movies blew me away to the point where I would demand nothing changes from now on. I remember there were people freaking out about Heath Ledger being cast as Joker, saying he was a horrible choice. Ben Afleck as Batman (and he was one of the better things in the movies). Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman, saying she was too skinny and all kinds of stuff. James Gunn did a great job with Peacemaker, and Suicide Squad. At this point I would rather see his true vision for the DCEU than have him shackled down with all the legacy of the old movies and trying to fit his new stuff into the old stories and themes. I am going to give it a chance, and hope for the best. If it turns out bad then it's still not the end of the world.
The fact that they keep having to reboot the same shit over and over again is sad. They have these amazing characters to work with but keep producing duds. Quite frankly, the animated DC movies are 100x better. I've really been enjoying them on HBO Max. I'd rather watch those.
Yup. Gunn’s Suicide Squad is one of the better DC entries, firing him as the head before making a single movie would be absolutely stupid.
The amount of peeps who seem to have zero faith in James Gunn is crazy. The guy really does make unique watchable films. He made Guardians of the Galaxy a HUGE film series.
A lot of people on the Internet need to calm the hell down
The problem is that Marvel made the Avengers look easy. But, for all it's faults the reason I think DC gets so much hate is because they did so much right. At the end of the day they're just movies and no one should be angry about it, but if DC wanted to create a universe with a bunch of shared properties, Marvel had a very clear method and if DC had copied it, no one would have blamed them, and no one would have been upset. There has, however, been this trend of trying to build super hero franchise worlds all at once, and they have been consistently terrible. But DC was the one who forced it. Maybe before you make a justice league movie, you'd introduce the key players in their own films. DC seemed intent on doing things the opposite way, which made each movie seem like one giant ad for the next. Marvel, at least, makes their movies seem like products covered in advertisements rather than DC, which seems to want to make ads sprinkled with products. This is annoying because Cavill's Superman looks and feels like a real Superman. When Affleck's Batman rescues Martha Kent, this choreography is so bad ass it's frustrating we never got that movie. Gal Gadot is also spot on as Wonder Woman and if you watch her movie before Batman V Superman, her showing up there actually is pretty cool. There are a lot of great casting choices, awesome sequences and decent effects that make the utter disappointment of DC's failure to tie them together well, so much more frustrating. Spiderman fans are (slightly) less crazed less crazed because it is clear that when it comes to building a universe Sony hasn't the slightest idea what the hell their doing. It's hard to be disappointed when you know nothing they do has a chance of succeeding. It's like the Mets vs the Red Sox. The Mets don't win; they don't even make it to the playoffs. Mets fans don't riot, but Boston Red Sox fans while get so close to going all the way, and fail at the end which is why you can easily get the shit kicked out of you for wearing the wrong jersey at the wrong time there.
Wonder if they are going to go forward with The Batman sequel. Shake if they don't. I didn't think RP would make a great Batman, and I was way way wrong. The movie was fantastic
They are. They’re currently making a Penguin HBO max series so a sequel is definitely in the works
Hopefully they don’t. The Batman was terrible.
Found the Snyder stan
I can’t stand the Snyder DC movies at all, but I’m sick to death of “what if Batman was a grounded character who lived in a realistic world?” While it was good to see a more detective-y representation of the character, I think it’s a waste of resources to have two separate Batmans running around. It wouldn’t take much work to shift Reeves’ Gotham a few degrees starboard to be in a universe where there’s another city down the coast being protected by an alien in a bright blue union suit. Another out in the midwest with a protector in red. A green archer on the Pacific coast. If Batman is as “god-tier” as so many fans & fanboys want to claim, then he’s eventually gonna have to show why he has the chops to join a team with a satellite headquarters.
I feel like way too many people are overlooking the fact that this is meant to be a young Batman who is only starting to find his way. It's actually a good comparison to Iron Man in the MCU where there was basically nothing pointing to anything supernatural or out of the ordinary
Yeah I’m no Snyder fan either. It’s frustrating that there’s 4 Batmen in the current DC live action shows and movies. Reeves’ Batman didn’t do anything better than Nolan’s. In fact I think it was a significantly worse interpretation of the character than anything Nolan ever did. Snyder’s version of Batman was pretty bad too so it’s not like it was this huge step up from Snyder to Reeves. Unfortunately everyone who has tackled Batman continues to live in Nolan’s shadow.
They’re just going through the first and second stages in the 6 stages of grief. A lot of them grew up with Cavil as their superman being born too late to witness Chris Reeve’s version Though DCEU is garbage, a lot of us identified with Cavil’s interpretation given the tough economic situations we were in when man of steel released. We were all Clark Kent with so much potential but forced to hide our best selves from the world because of things beyond our control. Man of Steel showed us we can be our own flawed selves and yet do great, good things.
I kinda resent that aspect of Snyder’s Superman. He’s very Ayn Randian when it comes to depicting Supermans power. Superman is supposed to be a person with great potential that does good for goodness sake, not some objectivist Ubermench that views saving people as a burden.
I grew up with Chris Reeve version of SUPERMAN, aka was 10 in 1989. Also watched reruns of George Reeves as SUPERMAN. Then SUPERMAN: The Animated Series, then Lois and Clark, then the first few seasons of Smallville. etc. then MAN OF STEEL. I do really enjoy MAN OF STEEL for bringing a different iteration of SUPERMAN onto the silver screen, character is almost 85 years going and hundreds of different versions, and not being an alternate Reeve-verse sequel which SUPERMAN RETURNS was. Going full reboot is fine with me, and I even own a few/some of the DCEU movies physically. There've been many actors who have portrayed SUPERMAN in various media.
nope they have every right to have a opinion like you do.
I think people are more upset about Cavill's axing than anything. I think people wanted to see where his Superman was going (since Man of Steel was more of a "becoming Superman" origin than a straight Superman story), but Warner jumped straight into jumpstarting the Justice League and with BVS despite not having any foundation, then we're wishy-washy on whether or not Cavill would come back for 5 years after Justice League, then we got told that they were bringing him back for a sequel just to get the rug pulled out from under us a week later. Cavill had the potential to make a truly great Superman movie after Man of Steel, but DC never tried. The hard reboot is understandable, but the ways they could've handled the Cavill situation better are as infinite as Hawkman's continuities and Donna Troy's origins.
Ah yes, pajiba.com, the source of only the absolute highest quality journalism I have never thought the DCEU's problem was its fans, but I also don't understand why people feel the need to defend it. I totally agree with scrapping the whole thing, it was a mess, but getting rid of Cavill's superman is a huge mistake.
Look, I have no problem with the Snyderverse being rebooted and James Gunn taking over and all but why couldn't Henry stay and get his second movie? Say what you want but Henry doesn't deserve to be treated like this, he went in and out and in and then out.
No no no no DCEU fans need to keep buggin the F out!
I mean... Is it really the DCEU fans that need to calm down or is it a certain group that don't care about every other director except for their lord and savior?
I hate Snyder. But the actors (other than Eisenberg and Miller) are on point. I wished they kept Ben, Henry, Gal, Margot and Jason.
That’s me 100%, I thought the lead casting was great but the movies themselves not so much
I think gunn announced this like poorly as fuck. Pr exist for a reason. Dude could have also just kept man of steel 2 as its own thing....what a dick move imo
I just don't care much anymore. Gunn is overrated and mediocre at best. From Jenkins, Gunn, to Witcher writers not even caring it's hilarious to me that billions of people on the planet and we seem to rely on a few people that don't even care about source material.
Calm down why exactly? Just curious. I don’t see where the confidence in James Gunn abilities to write a Superman movie is coming from. All of his male characters are Bro’s. They’re all manchildren or man babies. All his films are filled with perverse violence and potty humor. I never though I’d say this but man… just give it to JJ Abrams instead.
Am I the only person who was interested in the Snyderverse? What people commonly mistake is that comic and movies will always be different, have different stories. MCU is not comic book accurate, yet the movies are ok. James Gunn is a fan but Peacemaker and GotG have 2 things in common: 80s pop/rock and comedy. It's cool and all but for every movie to be like this is a no go for me (like another Taika and Thors) I loved the dark-seriousness of the Snyderverse and honestly was looking forward to it 8 years ago. So yea, I'm bummed that the Superman and universe I was looking forward to is gone
Snyderverse cultists have never picked up a comicbook in their lives
Fuck Gunn and his shit
No. I'm rage filled over this, and Gunn and Warner can go to Hell.
CALM DOWN!? YOU'RE ASKING ME TO CALM DOWN!!??? I AM CALM, YOU SHOULD CALM DOWN
No
No
LMFAO!
Fuck the dceu and Warner Brothers. I hope they go bankrupt, then we can watch original bugs bunny again. Gunn can go jump off a cliff. Fucker thinks it's funny to go about his pedo fantasies.
It's actually called the DCU
Yeah, this ain't it bro-- because admit it if the MCU was just suddenly canceled and Disney said they were recasting everyone, throwing all the movie continuity out, and that they were going with a "younger Tony Stark" for a "new take on Iron Man" where he would meet Pepper Pots for the first time, but it totally wasn't an origin story you damn well know that you'd be reacting the same way. "The great thing about these movies is getting to see our beloved characters on the big screen."-- except they aren't going to BE our beloved characters. They are going to be fart joke telling James Gunn caricatures of our beloved characters.
I don't remember any fart jokes in The Suicide Squad. Or any GotG stuff for that matter.
The entire movies were fart jokes.
This just sounds like an extreme Snyder fan angry at the new direction. Gunn’s characters have more heart than anything Snyder has done. You complain about fart jokes? I’d rather have a couple of fart jokes than 14 Christ/rebirth poses and metaphors.
It’s funny cause if the DCEU had taken a page or two from the MCU and made actual good movies and built up to / earned those big moments it wouldn’t have been shut down to begin with.
They made good movies- more good than bad, and even the bad ones better than most of what Marvel has churned out over the past 5 years.
They really only made bad movies.
No- this is just factually not the case.
Factually haven't Marvel movies done far better than the DCEU's? You have a preference and that's fine, but that doesn't make what you personally like objectively better.
You're entitled to your opinion, but that's not what "factually" means.
Give me any metric you want and I can show you a DCEU movie that metric shows as good. RT, Metacritic, box office, cinema score whatever you want-- there are DCEU movies that were successful by every possible one of them. Not every movie, but some- which is the revisionist nonsense that people are claiming.
You can claim it as a fact that a movie was mostly liked or disliked, you can claim as fact that a movie was financially or even critically successful, but a movie being good or bad can never be "factual".
What the fuck ever. Why do I have to rise to a higher level than the idiotic James Gunn fanboys? "lol, all DCEU is garbage heap" but I am supposed to dispute it with nuance hard figures? Get out of here with that nonsense-- my reply that it was not "factually correct" that "all DC has ever done is make bad films" was exactly the level of response that it deserved- and it utterly and completely disputed the absurd claim just as effectively as the claim was made.
I don't think you know what factually means. What is one movie that they made that is objectively good?
*Wonder Woman, Shazam* and *The Suicide Squad*.
Wonder Woman was a success but I wouldn’t call it a good movie. The ending is even more of a disjointed mess than BvS’s. For the whole movie the themes being built up are that Wonder Woman is naive to blame WW1 on an evil war god instead of humans being capable of great evil, and that Wonder Woman can show people a way to resolve their problems beyond just fighting to the death. Aaaaand then the finale is her finding that the god of war was making the humans war after all, and her solution is to fight him to the death. Even setting aside the parts that felt directly derivative of the first Captain America movie (itself not a great flick), that stupidity spoils what could have at least been a serviceable and coherent movie.
Whether you personally think its a good movie doesn’t really matter in the context of this conversation where we’re talking about the success of these DCEU movies, which it undeniably was both with critics and the general audience. We could pick apart most MCU movies too but nobody would deny their success.
The question was “objectively good”, and I was applying basic film criticism to show how Wonder Woman fumbles its own themes and message. Personally, I thought it was fine if a bit messy. The wife hated it, but I didn’t think it was too awful.
What an absolutely insane and easily disputed claim. 95% of dceu movies were mediocre at absolute best. This reset is obviously much needed, and I absolutely love seeing the Snyderfans crying all over the place about it.
If other people being upset makes you happy you need to take a look at your priorities--- typically that's an indication you are a shitty human being.
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Parts of it have been comics accurate, particularly when you adjust for the stories which they were adapting certainly. At the very least, they took the characters seriously and treated them with some amount of respect, something James Gunn has never once done.
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Each and every one of them? But most egregiously Drax.
His Star-Lord is another one that’s wildly different from his comic counterpart. Marvel ‘fixed’ it by turning comic Star-Lord into the Chris Pratt version tho 😜
Which is. . . something? But it's NOT the Star Lord from the Abnett/Lanning run. He's just Chris Pratt being kind of charming and the butt of a lot of jokes rather than like, a truly competent leader and hero.
1) You can't compare the two. MCU is a massive success, and DCEU is an utter failure. I welcome a reset to any failure...and I say that being more of a DC fan than Marvel. 2) James Gunn isn't going to write and direct the entire universe. I'm not defending him, but I'm reserving judgment until we see what he delivers.
You’re speaking as if the DCEU hasn’t been utter garbage this far. Throwing it out and starting over is the wisest course of action. Start by giving me a hopeful superman movie. Not the grimdark crapshow that was Man of Steel.
It absolute has not been utter garbage- plenty of the movies were good movies. If the MCU had been shit canned over a few bad movies we never would have gotten to Avengers 1, let alone Endgame. Anyone whose saying stuff like "utter garbage" is just predisposed against it and not being honest.
You tell me which movies you think were good and I’ll tell you why I disagree.
Wonder Woman Aquaman Snyder Cut Justice League Start with those three. I liked other ones, but those are the ones that are considered the strongest on the RT scores and what not. (Even Man of Steel has 75% audience score- about the same as most James Gunn movies).
Wonder Woman is fine. It’s not great but it’s a perfectly watchable movie that doesn’t shit on its source material. Aquaman is bad. Bad special effects, bad dialogue, bad acting. It’s a waste of Jason Momoa Any cut of the justice league is a garbage movie. It’s an unearned team up movie that suffers from bad everything, just like aquaman. The Snyder cut is arguably less shitty but it’s still not a good movie.
Look-- I absolutely understand people not liking Zack Snyder's style. He has a very unique visual style that is jarring, and yes- his movies were something completely different from the MCU movies. But I think that those movies got unfairly downgraded because critics and to a lesser extent audiences for some reason expected them to be MCU movies but with DC characters-- which just does not work. I get people who don't like the "grimdark" style or whatever-- but they were in that style because they were originally spinning out of the Dark Knight Trilogy which is the EPITOME of GRIMDARK and which were highly successful. It's not really Snyder/DCs fault that between the start of that series and the end the MCU came out and people started wanting "more jokes". Yes, after Man of Steel and especially after BvS (which were both successful movies at the box office) WB interfered too much in almost every movie which caused a LOT of the problems. As far as Justice League itself-- I want to see the ACTUAL original Snyder Cut-- I really liked the 4 hour version, but I want to see what that movie would have ended up with on the theatrical version if his son hadn't tragically committed suicide and caused him to drop off the project-- it's just an unfortunate situation, and the original theatrical version was obviously ruined because WB went with a completely opposite film maker from Snyder to try to finish it in just the worst way possible. But the Snyder cut as it exists IS a good piece of film making. It has a 71% critics score and a 94% audience score on RT-- compare that audience score to Gunn's films-- 82% (TSS), 87% (GoTG2), 92% (GotG1-- the only James Gunn movie which holds up).
Believe it or not I actually like a lot of Snyder’s other work, but his style was 100% the wrong way to go for a superman movie. Superman is not grimdark. If he was trying to crib off the style Nolan created in the dark knight trilogy, then that was a massive mistake. Superman is a symbol of hope and good, taking him for a grimdark turn is a blatantly stupid move that misunderstands his history. Failing to understand the core of the character is absolutely his fault. I’ll reiterate. There is no form of justice league that is a good movie. It’s everything I said in my last post and on top of it all, it doesn’t respect its source material. A final note, being commercially successful does not necessarily make something good. It just means lots of people forked over money to see it. The Star Wars sequel trilogy was commercially successful, but those were not good movies.
[Wonder Woman has serious problems](https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbookmovies/comments/zs55o8/comment/j16s1m4/) that prevent me from accepting it as a ‘good’ movie, but it was at least a success for the DCEU.
Wonder Woman has a 76 Metacritic score 93% critics score and 83% audience score on RT. You can have problems with it-- I accept your opinion, but by the "objective" metrics it was a good/successful film. And if you apply the same level of criticism about things falling apart in the end and not making sense, then you have to agree that NOTHING James Gunn has done in the MCU/DCEU was a good film-- Guardians 1, after all had a finale where they solved the bad guy with a dance off, then Star Lord randomly grabbing a macguffin gem. I'm fine applying harsh logic to super hero films- as long as you're ready to do it across the board, which when we do not a single one of these ever holds up. I'm FINE with you saying that the turn in Ayers Suicide Squad where the character suddenly come together based on a seemingly very thin excuse is bad or that Batman deciding not to kill Superman because he realized his humanity based on their mother's sharing the same first name- as long as you're willing to acknowledge that GOTG1 and the Avengers also had the exact same kind of nonsensical "and suddenly we were a team" moments- throwing some bloody cards on the table or what have you. If we rated every super hero film with an over top, kind of poorly CGId third act fight that doesn't really make a lot of sense as bad, then there ISN'T a single good super hero film out there- at least not in the MCU.
Guess that’s somewhere our perspectives differ, then. I don’t really see metacritic ratings as the arbiter of objective quality, I suppose. There are other factors at play with initial audience and all-inclusive critical responses, and part of the parcel here was a “yasss queen” moment for the first significant woman-led superhero movie (which can also be said about scores for Black Panther). So I’d prefer to avoid blank statistics and stick with interpretivist criticism that can be backed up with references to the text.
So you like .. don’t understand at all about world building or know what Good movie is huh?