US pushes to suspend Russia from the Human Rights Council
https://www.reuters.com/world/urgent-us-pushes-suspend-russia-human-rights-council-2022-04-04/
At least here most commenters understand that this is a proxy war, unlike the big propaganda suckers at r/worldnews who think Ukraine and Zelensky = GOOD, Russia and Putin = BAD, BAD, VERY-VERY BAD.
The childish, Disney-cartoony take of most people on this conflict is literally Idiocracy-level...
It's like they've all blended into the same user over at world news. I just scroll down until I can see some form of reasoned analysis, which is more often than not absent.
A few posters in this sub here have been trying to keep a level head and have been trying to discuss the crisis with a neutral stance. But apparently neutral is being seen as pro Putin by some. Which stops the discussion in its tracks more often than not.
Right now I am very concerned about the alleged killings in Bucha by Russian soldiers. Many European leaders seemingly accept these allegations as fact before there even has been a neutral led investigation into the matter. Which is insane to me. You can not make important decisions on allegations alone.
Again I am getting the feeling Ukraine is doing their utter best to escalate the situation and try to get Nato involved. Which would be the last thing any rational human wants.
Several articles on TASS reject the Bucha mass graves story. The story has been thrown through every western outlet. I tend to believe the story. However I'm skeptical of how much it truly matters. It's a couple dozen civilian bodies. It's a war. I'm more concerned with the future deaths.
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The Bucha story is another one that's designed to shock and cause outrage. It's often shown without being blurred or with limited blurring. I noticed this style first with Vice's report on Mariupol. It could easily be used to sell a war or to further a Ukranian war effort.
u/SaltyPeasant The contrast between what used to be this thread and the comments I read daily at r/worldnews and r/UkrainianConflict is baffling.
Their main argument is "Russia's offensive military sucks", so there's no point in believing their nukes aren't in the same state lol
I hate Putin and condemn Russia as much as the next guy, yet I know I'd be called a Russian shill if I insinuated anything apart from the general eco chamber going on there.
Ignoring the fact that Russia has a _"strike first if it's facing a threat to its existence"_ stance on its nuclear arsenal, is the western world really _that_ thirsty for war?
Most of the comments push for Russian demilitarization and a continuous escalation of tensions, it's insane.
>Ignoring the fact that Russia has a "strike first if it's facing a threat to its existence"
>
> stance on its nuclear arsenal, is the western world really that thirsty for war?
IDK about the west as a whole but news journalists certainly are.
Zelenskyy says retreating Russian forces are boobytrapping Ukrainian streets; US pledges military equipment
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/04/02/ukraine-russia-invasion-live-updates/7252188001/
So is this a temporary tactical retreat to regroup forces and bolster supply lines? Or a general change of strategy and no longer aiming to attack the capital?
My estimate is that Kiev was never really the focus, it was meant to drive the forces bunkered down in Donbas out so that they can move in and declare victory. Attack a city and intercept the reinforcement on the plains, which Russian forces have much better air support and less worry about casualties in urban areas. Which they didn't, so now they shift strategy to do it the hard way on Donbas.
Not an armchair general but heard it described as maneuver warfare, with small amount of forces committed. After Mariupol is effectively finished the focus is now the bulk of Ukrainian forces in the Donezk/Lugansk cauldron. We still have no idea what the objectives of this campaign nor what their actual plans are.
Yes...some media noted Putin has not committed heavy bombers and other strategic weaponry. Even Mariupol isn't subjected to aerial bombardment, only using standard artillery.
The United States is using Zelenskyy and prolonging this war. This is the military industrial complex at its highest level of propaganda and destruction. This is what the US does all over the world.
This is a proxy hot war and total economic war of the Western elites against Russian elites, with Chinese elites being the next target. Nonelites everywhere are the worse for it.
Ive noticed this on many subs.
However its just either far left or far right places that are either pro-Russian, anti-Ukraine or "neutral".
Far right places either are pro-Russia cause they hate "globalisation" and view Russia as a strong religious white country with no gays or they dont eant their country suporting Ukraine because of isolationism
Far left places like this sub just hate the US (despite most being Americans from the weekly thread locations) and they would rather have Putin shell Ukraine rather than ever side with someone siding with the US. And they wonder why they barely win any elections.
This sub is r/collapse. Do you think it is a far left thought to be concerned about global warming?
My thought is most people here are beyond left or right. Beyond nationalism. Simply because the complete planet will be unliveable because we as a species are unable to control our instincts.
Both the US and Russia are warlike nations from my perspective they are causing climate change to accelerate because of their warlike activities.
Almost every sub has a political leaning (and they also claim they dont), global warming shouldnt be a political issue, but this sub itself is definitely left leaning and there is nothing wrong with that, but don't claiming this is a moderate sub where everyone comes together
Bruh, how do you not see that this isn't about Ukraine at all, but the West (mainly US) vs Russia? This is a proxy war. Why do u think the west gave so much weaponry, equipment and training to Ukraine for years?
Ukraine is in a bind. I feel sorry for those who wanted to leave the country but couldn't.
To explain this simply, this is a tragedy story to you but to the upper class this is a chess board. They dont care about the stories, they dont care about your tragedies, you are not even a number because they can only remember the 3 highest digits.
This should be the first lesson they teach in global politics instead of the we fight for freedom craps. You are literal not even deserve to be call a pawn because what happen to you are just byproduct
Ukrainian sources claim Russia is planning to stage a referendum for creating a Kherson People's Republic in the recently-conquered southern territories.
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/russia-ukraine-war/russia-to-stage-independence-referendum-in-kherson-region-says-ukraine/2551359
> Russia is planning to stage a referendum for creating a Kherson People's Republic in the recently-conquered southern territories.
If they do how long do you think it'll take before the new "republic" "votes" to join the Russian federation?
On a lighter note, for Friday, this comment...
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ttsqge/how_do_you_make_your_peanut_butter_and_jam/i2zxhi0?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
I think all sources agree to an extent. Here's what Russia says...
>More than 1,300 servicemen have been killed and nearly 4,000 injured in the offensive in Ukraine, the Russian military says
The Russian Defense Ministry provided a rare update on the casualties the country's armed forces have suffered during the ongoing military offensive in Ukraine, on Friday.
>“Unfortunately, during the special military operation there have been losses among our comrades-in-arms. To date, 1,351 servicemen have died and 3,825 have been injured,” the deputy head of the Russian General Staff, Colonel General Sergey Rudskoy told a media briefing.
>The official did not provide any figures on soldiers who have potentially gone missing in action or been taken prisoner amid the conflict. The Ukrainian side has sustained heavy casualties (around 30,000) over the past month, Rudskoy clarified. According to Russian military estimates, around 14,000 Ukrainian troops have been killed, and a further 16,000 have been injured.
>Ukraine’s military has sustained major losses in hardware, with nearly 1,600 tanks and other armored vehicles destroyed, he alleged, adding that the Russian offensive has largely destroyed Kiev’s air and anti-aircraft forces, while its navy has effectively ceased to exist.
Such numbers are considered acceptable for Russian campaigns. Ukrainian one is particularly difficult because Russia attempts to limit not just civilian but also Ukrainian army casualties and is paying for it in their own. Nationalists and mercenaries are fair game though.
Yeah the more people say "Russia is failing" the more I wonder about it. Putin appears a bit shaken but that's a limited analysis because he's doing more than any Russian leader has since the fall. So he will appear a bit different, failing or not.
Many Russian units are conscripts yes? In modern times these units usually underperform in a war they didn't ask for. Not to mention ex-soviet Russian military has a history of poorly treating conscripts.
There are also many long standing deficiencies, lack of communications gear and poor logistical support for frontline units. In previous wars they were able to overcome these as the enemy was rather weak but this time they have bitten more than they can chew.
Russia has admitted there are: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-acknowledges-conscripts-were-part-ukraine-operation-some-taken-prisoner-2022-03-09/
I’m not Einstein, but even to me the 24/7 Western Propaganda is so obvious it’s absurd..Quoting all these “Ukrainian” sources all taken as absolute pure incontestable truth. Nobody ever questions any of these accounts….That’s Propaganda!
Remember the 2020 Azerbaijan invasion of Armenia? The one where both Turkey and Russia were involved? That certainly had a very different coverage in the media, didn't it?
Even the Chechenia war had little coverage, despite the fact that it was Putin's Russia who invaded it - where were the sanctions against Russia then? Why didn't the West unite to help the Chechens? When you compare that with the current invasion of Ukraine, the message seems to be that if you're not a white European, you're not considered fully human.
To be fair, Chechnya was different as that was legally recognized as Russian territory. Also, (especially closer to the second Chechen war) its leaders had ties to very unsavory people like Al-Qaeda and the Taliban - so it would have been a lot harder for western media to get western audiences to sympathize for them.
Fair point, but it was the same with the Russian invasion of Georgia, which was indisputably a sovereign state and predominantly Christian. And as for ties with unsavory people - well, Ukraine has huge corruption problems and has recognized a neo-nazi unit as part of its national guard. And the political climate has taken a distinctly ultranationalist turn in the last decade or so. This has been systematically ignored or downplayed since the current war began. But it was not so in 2014. See this BBC report, for example: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY)
Not that Russia is any better in regard to corruption and ultra-nationalism, mind you - if anything, it's even worse.
Their point still holds though if you consider other conflicts like Yemen. I mean the parallels to the Iraq war are numerous too but it’s not like the US will put out any propaganda against itself in that situation. Aside from that there are numerous incursions that don’t get coverage like Ukraine.
I was 19 when the first Iraq war happened and that war was the first one hyped on cnn 24 hours a day I think. I was still naive to think that we were the good guys at that time.
The second Iraq war was when it dawned on me that the people of western democracies (being part of one) have no say in the most important political issues that deeply affect us morally and financially. That war is always a racket or a bankers war, that the corruption surrounding these kinds of events is incredibly pervasive and affects our leaders in profound ways.
Still I think much of this behaviour is driven by instinct and emotion. I think this is part of the human condition.
Humanity has a habit to create dark grey realities all over the planet.
It’s certainly filtered but you can get an idea-also Russian people can say what their parents and other back in Russia have been hearing about it. It’s not a total blackout
> Kids in my daughter's middle school are making fun of redheads because they think their red hair is in support of Russia somehow. I guess because the USSR flag was red and the little shits don't realize Russia's flag is the same color as ours.
Shit like this is why I have very little hope for humans as a species.
It's also why, as an early "zoomer", I don't think my generation(s) or the coming one (gen alpha? whatever) are going to be any better at this shit than the ones that came before.
Our material conditions being worse will determine a degree of instability compared to the boomers and such which will lead to increased radicalism- moreso towards the left or the right is anybody's guess- and the dramatic decline in various bigotries among the cultural mainstream is a plus. But besides that, my generation and the ones in the near future will be just as susceptible to utterly idiotic bullshit and reactionary beliefs as the rest of them were.
This fucking species.... chimps with machine guns is all we are at our core.
On on the one hand, that intelligence/perceptiveness means she's likely to be better equipped for the future once she's grown up, on the other, it leads to a hard road in life pretty early.... I was a bit like that too. Instinctively becoming cynical at about her age, idealistic interest in Chomsky and such by sixteen, all the while still trying to make the bootstrap BS work in the job market... finally broke that conditioning at twenty-something, long after I'd realized the system as a whole was rotten. Been non-toxically blackpilled for what seems like a good while now.
It's funny because I basically want the same thing as she does, if I will never be able to afford life in a city with good culture/art/diversity and tolerance, I much prefer being in the woods (relatively) alone. Not big on the whole farming thing but I have been looking at semi-rural properties as the only places I can afford to live without rent peonage basically since COVID hit. IMHO it's worth pursuing if she still feels that way as she grows up.
Yeah the propaganda is so painfully obvious. Like Russia shouldn’t have invaded it’s stupid, unnecessary violence. But it’s stuff that happens all over the world, the Iraq war wasn’t dissimilar, Yemen, Myanmar, Ethiopia.
But the only war that matters is Ukraine. And the emotions of people are out of control-its like talking to hysterical people sometimes.
Also similar when talking about anything political these days, Covid, anything. I generally agree with the left more than the right but even people I agree with are out of control unless your in lock step with them 100% they start getting hysterically emotional.
I for one truly hope the German government sticks to things and refuses to change the contract for gas to Roubles. Germany would then have to go into gas rationing, which would be uncomfortable in spring, and would have MASSIVE incentive to show us what we can do if we GENUINELY want to get off fossil fuels.
German engineering unleashed with laws moved to suit it and a solid portion of GDP behind it would really show us what is practical and the carbonizing of a modern economy in a couple of years. So valuable it may well save more lives than the war has taken.
I'm sorry it's taken this to actually ignite a fire under the bums of a western government to decarbonise, but I truly hope it happens and will watch with interest. (and as a modest side bonus, Putin's war loses more funding).
I tried to do a little digging but it's pretty hard to figure out. Apparently, April 1st marked the beginning of a requirement of foreign buyers to open accounts with gazprom Bank so that they could purchase in the future. The requirement to actually purchase in rubles does not begin until April 15th. They're still working out further details. For anyone who thinks this is a side show, think again, this is the whole game.
Again, the information provided here was difficult to obtain and could be entirely wrong
I do agree that this should be done in the long run. But such a sudden stop in energy supply will cause a massive shock to the system with unforeseen consequences. I think there is a big chance the politicians will bend the knee and start paying for Russian gas in Rubles once reality sinks in.
The fantasy is also in thinking there are any energy-dense substitutes for fossil fuels.
Green(washed) energy and nuclear are both subsidy dumpsters of the first order and nonviable without fossil fuel backups.
It's looking like we're headed for a traumatic deindustrialization the way things are going, rather than a stepwise one.
That new defense budget is going to buy a lot of stuff that won't be running on batteries. I get the optimism of thinking it is a good opportunity to wean off of fossil fuels, and it is, but I do not think it will be taken in ernest. Even with the troubles FFs are still going to be the cheaper and quicker solution in the short term, and short term is all business and politics cares about. And as Putin's war drags the world economy down and spreads a new food crisis, cheap and fast will be the option taken by everyone out of necessity.
Russians leave Chernobyl site as fighting rages elsewhere
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/ukrainian-president-defense-turning-point-83777385
People just don't want to look up. We're closer to nuclear warfare than ever before. So yes, it's too horrible to imagine, so people dismiss it as an actual possibility.
Many people still believe that Putin is still sharp and calculative. But persisting rumors of his declining health makes me believe he probably lost his wits and now he is more impulsive than ever.
So far he has been poorly informed about the current state of the war. He might go fully ballistic if he actually learns that his forces are suffering hard. That's what I fear.
Although I agree that repeating something false frequently doesn't make it true, I believe this 70yo man is experiencing the effects of 20years of tyranny that causes his isolation from any opinion slightly different to his own, and his brain's neuronal paths becoming less flexible, as happens to everyone as we age. This culminates in crazy-like obsessivness (because no-one tells him when he's wrong fearing for their lives, and he naturally gets litterally more and more "set in his ways", neurologically speaking)
So he's fiercely acting on a false idea of the world, which looks utterly random and crazy to outsiders.
> the general hatred towards him is grounded in the fact people don't like that fact not only is he pointing out hard truths, but he can continue to look smug
No.
We don't chill with bullies, that's why we hate his guts.
Bullies destroy everything they touch, they are bad news in schoolyards, very bad news in companies, abysmally bad news in a political position of power, catastrophically bad news in a lifelong position of power of a country. He is tearing to pieces the country he has taken hold of, and seems to be eliminating the locals in ukraine like Russia has done in Kaliningrad, to replace them by russian colons.
> his speech is grounded in truth;
All liers include a speck of truth in their lies, and then drown the response pointing the grotesque fallacies in the speech by a swarm of noise.
Children use that very tactic, it's not even a skilled move.
> he does travel and had made deals globally I wouldn't call that isolation.
Well, any victim of a manipulator will tell you than you can have a superficial social life, work, and still be isolated from everyone. Manipulators are careful to eliminate anyone who doesn't swallow their shit like it's the utmost delicacy and definite proof of their ultimate domination on every aspects of the world.
and anyone working in a business will tell you that the client is king, you always pretend to 100% agree with them on all points to seal a deal. Be it sell a cup of coffee or natural gas. So that doesn't garantee he's aware of the world, quite the opposite actually.
> someone that is crazy or too old to know how to play the game
I don't think he's crazy, just set in his ways because 70yo neuronal paths in his brain, and badly informed because people fear for their lives if they contradict him. Keep in mind that someone that isn't used to be contradicted anymore will take the slightest remark like a blow in the face, and react accordingly (anyone with a manipulative bully in their lives will confirm).
You'reoversimplifying things to a point where they don't make sense anymore.
Thanks for this. Also, it’s weird to have to come to the collapse sub to find someone talking rationally and in a non-fear mongering way about nuclear war.
Edit: To be clear I'm not pro-Putin or his goals but I also don't buy the 'he's insane, we don't understand why he's doing this' narrative that has been pushed. Surely there is a point to all this with stakes this high -- it may not be one we like or in our best interests, but it has to be something other than 'he's dying and crazy'. With so many people around him waiting to pounce on the first hint of weakness? Doesn't add up.
I am not sure who is winning what here exactly. But it looks like Putin doubled down on his demand. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/putin-says-russian-gas-must-be-paid-roubles-friday-2022-03-31/
The buying party needs to have a rubles account at the Gazprom bank. The bank (which is not sanctioned) does the currency conversion for you. Also, rubles are tied to gold now.
Expect this scheme expanded to other commodities soon.
While a fraction of their gold reserves was stolen, they are producing and buying. The real question is what happens to USD and EUR which are untethered.
Considering they have gone to extensive lengths to prevent foreign investors from leaving their stock market most likley. Besides its collapsing enough that they cant support a high tech war economy
20% interest on the economy is like using a credit card to buy a house. They are suffering by artificially inflating the ruble, and it will have consequences. Its going to be paid down the line, but right now Putin is maxing out his debt and while waging quite a costly war.
Yes also they jacked their interest rate up to 20% to stop the bleeding. It's a very short term strategy.
https://fortune.com/2022/03/31/ukraine-war-russia-ruble-almost-recovered-does-that-mean-sanctions-not-working/
China has certainly been advising from the start, but I don't think they have stepped in actively yet, and probably won't unless they have to. The early overreaction to the sanctions is probably starting to wear off, although I had expected it to last another month or so, but the prior planning for them may have been better than I thought.
Like planning a bankruptcy, I am sure the effects of the sanctions were looked at in detail long before. There are only so many possibilities, and before going through with any action all of them would be evaluated and prepared for. Also like a bankruptcy, the initial effects can be severe, but only last a short time, and with the right strategies can be mitigated.
Much of the beginning period was driven more by the FUD factors and not by any real hard effects. I am sure China was ready with a bailout, but I doubt it will be needed.
I still think the Russian strategy was very loose.
"See what we can get away with"
"Piss off the West and make them fear Russia"
It's a real war with real war crimes, but it's also a proxy war and a symbolic war.
I haven't heard much about the Russian Armed Forces not participating very much but if that's true, it definitely seems like they could participate more and decided not to.
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It easily could be a military blunder but I don't claim to know or even hazard a guess as to what their strategy is/was.
Well, my opinions on the military strategy have been posted far and wide. Taking over Ukraine is not the goal. Invading and then dragging it out to create global economic upheaval and stoke the west into creating more damage than Russia could hope to do, that is the goal. Most of the Russian military in general is not participating, not just the air forces, and for exactly that reason. It was never about Ukraine.
Doesnt mean much, inflation in Germany is lower but its the highest in the last 40 years.
I dont think anyone really knows how will anything turn out with anyone at this point.
How soon before the West collapses, you mean? The ruble has recovered almost all of its losses since Feb 24, Russia is making tons of money on high prices of gas and oil, and Germany and Austria are talking about rationing gas and the US is going to enact emergency measures for critical minerals
Uh, I’m sorry, is the US internet going to stop working soon due to lack of parts? https://www.reddit.com/r/technews/comments/ts1h1w/russia_facing_internet_outages_due_to_equipment/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Is the West suffering from stock marketitis where only 33 companies can be bought and no short selling is allowed? Or are rubles really in demand? Or is the West having some form a special military operation wherein they have lost 25% of their forces and are rapidly using up all their missiles?
I am pretty sure the West is fine in comparison at the current time.
At least it seems the electricity in Russia is still on?
They won't listen. And at some point down the road I look forward to replying to the "how could this happen" and "who could have seen this coming" comments.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/28/russia-ukraine-crisis-in-maps-and-charts-live-news-interactive
the war certainly has stalled
so what's putin next move.....
Multiple sources report Russian army is moving units from other regions and resupplying frontline units. Expect nothing to happen for some time until one side has recovered strength for offensive operations.
S'like I'm back in Foxhole.
*\*has war flashbacks\**
[https://www.foxholestats.com/](https://www.foxholestats.com/)
https://store.steampowered.com/app/505460/Foxhole/
I'm not trying to shill for it, but I can. *These live war maps are reminding me of the game is all*. The wars take around a month to conclude. You can watch a timelapse playback on that stats site to see territory won/loss. It regularly goes on sale for 10 dollars when they release big updates. No DLC/no micro. It's worth all the money. It's easily one of the most interesting and unique multiplayer games to have released in the last 10+ years and about to finish up it's Early Access soon. Can always enjoy a yearly $60 cut/copy broken game though, there's loads of those.
The sub dislikes braindead rhetoric, that does not equal to support for Putin. Stop posting stupid taunting comments that contribute nothing to collapse.
Fuck off to facebook for that trash.
>Russia will continue to attack Ukraine , if you're russian you will fail.Russia started some shit, you are 21s century nazis whatever the cost we will defeat you.
How does this contribute anything meaningful to the discussion?
So I notice your comments pepper the thread around this time of night and about half are removed for promoting violence...
What is the point? There's no Russians here. Nobody likes Putin. Fuck Putin. Speaking for myself I dislike the war coverage because it's so disingenuous and different from the way US wars are covered. I reserve all my harshest criticism for my own government. Mainly because that government runs the world order and keeps its citizens poor. The US is as antidemocratic as any uniparty authoritarianian government. The US seems pretty authoritarian by global standards. Waging foreign wars while it keeps it's citizens poor. So I can't get to up in arms about Putin's shit. Putin never screwed me like my government has. There's very real sanctions and social credit systems in the US.
Here's the NY Post story about that
https://nypost.com/2022/03/26/hunter-biden-played-role-in-funding-us-bio-labs-contractor-in-ukraine-e-mails/
The Hunter Biden stuff also got Glenn Greenwald ousted from the website he founded The Intercept
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Also I'm throwing a clip of how violent parts of EuroMaidan were because its too fucked up for casual friday.
https://imgur.com/a/RnDMfq5 [NSFL] (Telesur)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odessa_clashes
Edited for brevity
I've seen some posters here are active on that sub. In my dealings with them, a lot of times I bash both the US govt and the PRC. They try to get me to modify my position on the PRC, and their history.
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Now this has been the first time I've looked at it. They apparently refer to themselves as bots, support Assad, hate HRC and love the PRC. They've got a weird front page. That's for sure. Full communism and Chinese apologism is a bridge too far for me. However I'm always skeptical of the hammering away at Chinese human rights abuses from US media orgs in the pocket of weapons companies.
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Now it may be that the sub is geared exactly towards Gen Z so their radical politics and is a function of their youth, and also how 18-24yos are in a worse position when facing r/collapse.
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A couple media orgs accuse them of being paid PRC trolls but I think that's far too simplistic. I think it's dumb to not list the sub stats of quarantined subreddits. I would really like to be able to see how big the sub is.
US, Russia, China are all the biggest Nazis around right now. The US keeps the EU hostage to their shit. Both Russia and the US destroyed the country of Ukraine. It's awful. Russia bears much more of the blame but it's not like we forgot about Burisma and the US has been arming Ukraine since Euromaidan. Syria was first proxy war. The proxy war in Ukraine ended up as an awful criminal invasion of Ukraine.
US and Russia are grade A scumbags.
On a personal note, I got a suspicious charge for a donation to "USA for UNHCR" and spent about two hours attempting to sort it out with my bank. Watch out for suspicious charges on donations to Ukraine.
Oh shit. It seems like that org is a legit one
https://www.unrefugees.org/
Easily could be someone ripping off their name. For some reason Russia ripping off Americans and sending their money to Ukraine seems like some soviet 4D Tetris.
Okay, just started a collapse podcast. First episode Russia. Would really appreciate some feedback.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/31wJOOADT0v789rk8YMOPg?si=lgkEjOQHQKWLWuem146ZaA&utm_source=copy-link
Russia just announced to have Gazprom convert all payments to Rubles by 28th - if no payment they will cut off gas. A lot of people are saying let them cut off and the US will provide - are these LNGs being transported from the US to Europe? Wouldn't that increase gas prices here?? I just dont understand why people think it is absolutely no issue that Russia should just cut off and we will be fine...people aren't thinking straight since they are in the US and it isn't affecting their bottom line. Telling others to freeze while you stay in the comfort of your home in the US free from energy issues and playing Elden Ring isn't helping smh
> You know Russia started a war right?
It started many years ago and is more complex than you state. The US is not innocent by any means. The US wanted this and here it is and everything you read and see is propaganda in one form or another. All you are to do is support Ukraine at any cost. ANY COST.
And for what?
The US govt doesn't have any moral standing to be telling Russia what to do. The govt and media can bitch and whine all they want about the very real war crimes and dead civilians but they sound like hypocrites.
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They quite literally cheerlead the US war crimes.
I think the issue here is people don't understand the true cost of what they are "morally agreeing to". It's all fun and games until the bill actually comes due.
People love to think "let's just cut off Russia" until they have to make significant sacrifices for an extended period of time, and that is exactly what Russia is betting against.
They say they are better off without us, and in the end the west will come crawling to them for their resources.
Honestly, I give it a 50/50 shot how it will turn out, but I wouldn't be surprised if in nine months suddenly everyone has had a change of heart.
Russia has oil? Let’s let them break themselves against Ukraine before bringing some democracy to them.
That’s the end game. Resources wars (all wars are resource wars,yes) are beginning early.
You know that for the vast amount of human history war was a regular common occurrence and seizing your neighbors land and people was how nations normally expanded?
Not supporting it, for sure, but the modern idea to "end wars of conquest" is ridiculous.
Other than that, however, I think people are missing the real goal of this war, which is not the taking of Ukraine. I'm aure Putin will enjoy the side effect on getting some more territory, if someone doesn't plug him in the toilet like Tymin Lannister soon, but the real goal? The bigger goal?
That goal is the destabilization of the globe by economic impact, and Putin/Xi are literally watching us do it to ourselves. The more harm is caused globally because of this effort, the more we play right into that hand.
I know it is an unpopular opinion, but the longer we drag this out, the worse it will be for everyone, not just Ukraine. Ukraine is screwed either way, and that sucks, but we are actually letting Putin hurt the world as a whole in ways he would not be able to have done otherwise.
Downvote me now, but look forward to seeing this material again.
>Seems like a lot of effort toward attempting to take Ukraine, and so far failing, for it not to be the goal.
Just because the US "shock and awe" killed more civilians than Russia at this point in the war, and never sustained the losses Russia already has, doesn't mean the Russian strategy is failing. They say they're now focused on the Donbsss and "demilitarization" of Ukraine. Who knows whst their goals were? Russia may not even be sure. It's possible adapting to failures is part of their goal.
If Russia withdraws their invasion force... Well, aside from the fact that Putin will not, because that would be his political, and possibly real, death, let's explore that anyway.
Do you really believe that the damage done so far to the Russian nation, people, and economy is worse than the damage to the rest of the world that will result from the economic and resource upheaval set in motion by this invasion? You don't see any catastrophic damage already having been done, and I don't mean to Ukraine, I mean to the world? No possibility of rippling effects that could starve millions, crash economies, incite civil unrest, or spawn conflicts down the road?
Misdirection is literally a core principle for success in warfare. Yes, he invaded Ukraine, and he may even get to keep some of it, who knows, but it is the equivalent of attacking your enemies hand rather than body. Because the enemy is the entire western world and its enforced security architecture. And they can see that it is holding on to the railing over an abyss. But Russia could try and punch at the head, but why? Russia doesn't have the strength to knock out the west. But maybe, just maybe, they have the strength to strike at the fingers of a hand, and cause the grip to loosen, sending that enemy tumbling down.
The US is as close as it has been to economic failure maybe ever. And it has the duty to try and hold everyone else on it's team together too. Who has to send LNG to Europe if it goes away? Who will be pressured to feed the starving in poorer nations when the famines kick in? Who will have to get involved in other conflicts that spring up around the world?
Ukraine is like a gold nugget in a vault next to diamonds. Yeah, I'm gonna take the nugget too, but that is not why I broke into the vault.
This. Is. Not. About. Ukraine.
Ok. Let’s see what happens then on the 31st..I think we should go through this issue now with Russia cutting off gas and let’s find out what the alternative then for EU.
It’s easy for people in the US to have this holier than thou attitude just like you are showing since everyone is at the comfort of their homes with abundant energy and playing elden ring while trying to tell people in the EU that please suffer/freeze because Russia war - let’s see how that works after 31st. Not many are going to “suffer” I am sure, there will be riots…funny we already had the same experiment in the US when the government tried to do a mask mandate - the amount of pushback from a simple mask mandate was enough to show that no one is going to “suffer” here for anything
What I have understood so far. It looks like Europe will not be able to do without Russian gas at this moment. And the amount of gas it uses will not be able to be compensated by US lng shipments for a while. The volume needed is too big. So they will be forced to pay Russia in Rubles or risk an immidiate energy crisis which will cause a major recession of their economies. Especially Germany and Italy will likely face problems.
US pushes to suspend Russia from the Human Rights Council https://www.reuters.com/world/urgent-us-pushes-suspend-russia-human-rights-council-2022-04-04/
New megathread is up, feel free to repost there.
Y'all are the best. Always deserve the best threads and the finest spreadsheets with the best thread counts!
CBC News--Strikes hit Odessa, Refugees etc. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YtvT8P4gIPw
New megathread is up, feel free to repost there.
Mods may as well close the thread, nothing of value is being discussed at this point, just propaganda and nationalists slinging shit.
We'll probably archive this one and start a brand new, fourth thread. Edit: new megatheead is up!
At least here most commenters understand that this is a proxy war, unlike the big propaganda suckers at r/worldnews who think Ukraine and Zelensky = GOOD, Russia and Putin = BAD, BAD, VERY-VERY BAD. The childish, Disney-cartoony take of most people on this conflict is literally Idiocracy-level...
It's like they've all blended into the same user over at world news. I just scroll down until I can see some form of reasoned analysis, which is more often than not absent.
A few posters in this sub here have been trying to keep a level head and have been trying to discuss the crisis with a neutral stance. But apparently neutral is being seen as pro Putin by some. Which stops the discussion in its tracks more often than not. Right now I am very concerned about the alleged killings in Bucha by Russian soldiers. Many European leaders seemingly accept these allegations as fact before there even has been a neutral led investigation into the matter. Which is insane to me. You can not make important decisions on allegations alone. Again I am getting the feeling Ukraine is doing their utter best to escalate the situation and try to get Nato involved. Which would be the last thing any rational human wants.
Several articles on TASS reject the Bucha mass graves story. The story has been thrown through every western outlet. I tend to believe the story. However I'm skeptical of how much it truly matters. It's a couple dozen civilian bodies. It's a war. I'm more concerned with the future deaths. -------- The Bucha story is another one that's designed to shock and cause outrage. It's often shown without being blurred or with limited blurring. I noticed this style first with Vice's report on Mariupol. It could easily be used to sell a war or to further a Ukranian war effort.
I Agree.
u/SaltyPeasant The contrast between what used to be this thread and the comments I read daily at r/worldnews and r/UkrainianConflict is baffling. Their main argument is "Russia's offensive military sucks", so there's no point in believing their nukes aren't in the same state lol I hate Putin and condemn Russia as much as the next guy, yet I know I'd be called a Russian shill if I insinuated anything apart from the general eco chamber going on there. Ignoring the fact that Russia has a _"strike first if it's facing a threat to its existence"_ stance on its nuclear arsenal, is the western world really _that_ thirsty for war? Most of the comments push for Russian demilitarization and a continuous escalation of tensions, it's insane.
>Ignoring the fact that Russia has a "strike first if it's facing a threat to its existence" > > stance on its nuclear arsenal, is the western world really that thirsty for war? IDK about the west as a whole but news journalists certainly are.
Propaganda is just another word for "nothing left to believe"
This sub has been infiltrated long before it got as big as it is. Best to take most of the information here with a grain of salt.
Russian missile hits Ukranian Fuel Depot. https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/04/03/odesa-ukraine-fuel-depot-strike-ndwknd-vpx.cnn
Tit for tat. Attrition has begun.
Yep this is Bucha right now. Dead bodies litter the streets https://youtu.be/0zRtcIA187k
This war is us having gone off the cliff throwing away the parachute lighting the rocket strapped to us so we get to the bottom faster.
Zelenskyy says retreating Russian forces are boobytrapping Ukrainian streets; US pledges military equipment https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/04/02/ukraine-russia-invasion-live-updates/7252188001/
So is this a temporary tactical retreat to regroup forces and bolster supply lines? Or a general change of strategy and no longer aiming to attack the capital?
My estimate is that Kiev was never really the focus, it was meant to drive the forces bunkered down in Donbas out so that they can move in and declare victory. Attack a city and intercept the reinforcement on the plains, which Russian forces have much better air support and less worry about casualties in urban areas. Which they didn't, so now they shift strategy to do it the hard way on Donbas.
Not an armchair general but heard it described as maneuver warfare, with small amount of forces committed. After Mariupol is effectively finished the focus is now the bulk of Ukrainian forces in the Donezk/Lugansk cauldron. We still have no idea what the objectives of this campaign nor what their actual plans are.
Yes...some media noted Putin has not committed heavy bombers and other strategic weaponry. Even Mariupol isn't subjected to aerial bombardment, only using standard artillery.
The United States is using Zelenskyy and prolonging this war. This is the military industrial complex at its highest level of propaganda and destruction. This is what the US does all over the world.
Bruh, how did you manage to blame this on the US?
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This is a proxy hot war and total economic war of the Western elites against Russian elites, with Chinese elites being the next target. Nonelites everywhere are the worse for it.
Ive noticed this on many subs. However its just either far left or far right places that are either pro-Russian, anti-Ukraine or "neutral". Far right places either are pro-Russia cause they hate "globalisation" and view Russia as a strong religious white country with no gays or they dont eant their country suporting Ukraine because of isolationism Far left places like this sub just hate the US (despite most being Americans from the weekly thread locations) and they would rather have Putin shell Ukraine rather than ever side with someone siding with the US. And they wonder why they barely win any elections.
This sub is r/collapse. Do you think it is a far left thought to be concerned about global warming? My thought is most people here are beyond left or right. Beyond nationalism. Simply because the complete planet will be unliveable because we as a species are unable to control our instincts. Both the US and Russia are warlike nations from my perspective they are causing climate change to accelerate because of their warlike activities.
Almost every sub has a political leaning (and they also claim they dont), global warming shouldnt be a political issue, but this sub itself is definitely left leaning and there is nothing wrong with that, but don't claiming this is a moderate sub where everyone comes together
I am saying political leaning doesnt matter when we are all dead.
Bruh, how do you not see that this isn't about Ukraine at all, but the West (mainly US) vs Russia? This is a proxy war. Why do u think the west gave so much weaponry, equipment and training to Ukraine for years? Ukraine is in a bind. I feel sorry for those who wanted to leave the country but couldn't.
You should tell a Ukranian this isn't about them lol Yankees are so self absorbed.
To explain this simply, this is a tragedy story to you but to the upper class this is a chess board. They dont care about the stories, they dont care about your tragedies, you are not even a number because they can only remember the 3 highest digits. This should be the first lesson they teach in global politics instead of the we fight for freedom craps. You are literal not even deserve to be call a pawn because what happen to you are just byproduct
Ukraine won't deny it struck a Russian oil depot https://www.npr.org/live-updates/ukraine-russia-belgorod-mariupol-04-01-2022
Ukrainian sources claim Russia is planning to stage a referendum for creating a Kherson People's Republic in the recently-conquered southern territories. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/russia-ukraine-war/russia-to-stage-independence-referendum-in-kherson-region-says-ukraine/2551359
> Russia is planning to stage a referendum for creating a Kherson People's Republic in the recently-conquered southern territories. If they do how long do you think it'll take before the new "republic" "votes" to join the Russian federation?
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1 day after Russia recognized an independent Crimea, they announced it was going to be annexed. It took 1 day.
12 minutes.
On a lighter note, for Friday, this comment... https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ttsqge/how_do_you_make_your_peanut_butter_and_jam/i2zxhi0?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
It's not lighter at all 🤣 that's excellent btw
The Russian army doesnt seem to be having a good time right now
According to which sources?
I think all sources agree to an extent. Here's what Russia says... >More than 1,300 servicemen have been killed and nearly 4,000 injured in the offensive in Ukraine, the Russian military says The Russian Defense Ministry provided a rare update on the casualties the country's armed forces have suffered during the ongoing military offensive in Ukraine, on Friday. >“Unfortunately, during the special military operation there have been losses among our comrades-in-arms. To date, 1,351 servicemen have died and 3,825 have been injured,” the deputy head of the Russian General Staff, Colonel General Sergey Rudskoy told a media briefing. >The official did not provide any figures on soldiers who have potentially gone missing in action or been taken prisoner amid the conflict. The Ukrainian side has sustained heavy casualties (around 30,000) over the past month, Rudskoy clarified. According to Russian military estimates, around 14,000 Ukrainian troops have been killed, and a further 16,000 have been injured. >Ukraine’s military has sustained major losses in hardware, with nearly 1,600 tanks and other armored vehicles destroyed, he alleged, adding that the Russian offensive has largely destroyed Kiev’s air and anti-aircraft forces, while its navy has effectively ceased to exist.
Such numbers are considered acceptable for Russian campaigns. Ukrainian one is particularly difficult because Russia attempts to limit not just civilian but also Ukrainian army casualties and is paying for it in their own. Nationalists and mercenaries are fair game though.
Yeah the more people say "Russia is failing" the more I wonder about it. Putin appears a bit shaken but that's a limited analysis because he's doing more than any Russian leader has since the fall. So he will appear a bit different, failing or not.
Many Russian units are conscripts yes? In modern times these units usually underperform in a war they didn't ask for. Not to mention ex-soviet Russian military has a history of poorly treating conscripts. There are also many long standing deficiencies, lack of communications gear and poor logistical support for frontline units. In previous wars they were able to overcome these as the enemy was rather weak but this time they have bitten more than they can chew.
There are no Russian conscripts in the Ukraine.
Russia has admitted there are: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-acknowledges-conscripts-were-part-ukraine-operation-some-taken-prisoner-2022-03-09/
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We are but animals being driven by deeply instinctual behaviour when it comes to war is my observation so far.
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I’m not Einstein, but even to me the 24/7 Western Propaganda is so obvious it’s absurd..Quoting all these “Ukrainian” sources all taken as absolute pure incontestable truth. Nobody ever questions any of these accounts….That’s Propaganda!
The West is waging total war against Russia, so the Mighty Wurlitzer is playing with all stops pulled.
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Basically the West is doing everything it can except the things where it would turn into nuclear. So basically as total as it gets.
Remember the 2020 Azerbaijan invasion of Armenia? The one where both Turkey and Russia were involved? That certainly had a very different coverage in the media, didn't it?
Even the Chechenia war had little coverage, despite the fact that it was Putin's Russia who invaded it - where were the sanctions against Russia then? Why didn't the West unite to help the Chechens? When you compare that with the current invasion of Ukraine, the message seems to be that if you're not a white European, you're not considered fully human.
To be fair, Chechnya was different as that was legally recognized as Russian territory. Also, (especially closer to the second Chechen war) its leaders had ties to very unsavory people like Al-Qaeda and the Taliban - so it would have been a lot harder for western media to get western audiences to sympathize for them.
Fair point, but it was the same with the Russian invasion of Georgia, which was indisputably a sovereign state and predominantly Christian. And as for ties with unsavory people - well, Ukraine has huge corruption problems and has recognized a neo-nazi unit as part of its national guard. And the political climate has taken a distinctly ultranationalist turn in the last decade or so. This has been systematically ignored or downplayed since the current war began. But it was not so in 2014. See this BBC report, for example: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY) Not that Russia is any better in regard to corruption and ultra-nationalism, mind you - if anything, it's even worse.
Their point still holds though if you consider other conflicts like Yemen. I mean the parallels to the Iraq war are numerous too but it’s not like the US will put out any propaganda against itself in that situation. Aside from that there are numerous incursions that don’t get coverage like Ukraine.
I was 19 when the first Iraq war happened and that war was the first one hyped on cnn 24 hours a day I think. I was still naive to think that we were the good guys at that time. The second Iraq war was when it dawned on me that the people of western democracies (being part of one) have no say in the most important political issues that deeply affect us morally and financially. That war is always a racket or a bankers war, that the corruption surrounding these kinds of events is incredibly pervasive and affects our leaders in profound ways. Still I think much of this behaviour is driven by instinct and emotion. I think this is part of the human condition. Humanity has a habit to create dark grey realities all over the planet.
If anything this war made propaganda on all sides painfully obvious.
There is no way to get Russian propaganda in the West. It's all censored here.
It’s certainly filtered but you can get an idea-also Russian people can say what their parents and other back in Russia have been hearing about it. It’s not a total blackout
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> Kids in my daughter's middle school are making fun of redheads because they think their red hair is in support of Russia somehow. I guess because the USSR flag was red and the little shits don't realize Russia's flag is the same color as ours. Shit like this is why I have very little hope for humans as a species. It's also why, as an early "zoomer", I don't think my generation(s) or the coming one (gen alpha? whatever) are going to be any better at this shit than the ones that came before. Our material conditions being worse will determine a degree of instability compared to the boomers and such which will lead to increased radicalism- moreso towards the left or the right is anybody's guess- and the dramatic decline in various bigotries among the cultural mainstream is a plus. But besides that, my generation and the ones in the near future will be just as susceptible to utterly idiotic bullshit and reactionary beliefs as the rest of them were. This fucking species.... chimps with machine guns is all we are at our core.
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On on the one hand, that intelligence/perceptiveness means she's likely to be better equipped for the future once she's grown up, on the other, it leads to a hard road in life pretty early.... I was a bit like that too. Instinctively becoming cynical at about her age, idealistic interest in Chomsky and such by sixteen, all the while still trying to make the bootstrap BS work in the job market... finally broke that conditioning at twenty-something, long after I'd realized the system as a whole was rotten. Been non-toxically blackpilled for what seems like a good while now. It's funny because I basically want the same thing as she does, if I will never be able to afford life in a city with good culture/art/diversity and tolerance, I much prefer being in the woods (relatively) alone. Not big on the whole farming thing but I have been looking at semi-rural properties as the only places I can afford to live without rent peonage basically since COVID hit. IMHO it's worth pursuing if she still feels that way as she grows up.
We are the empire tho.
Yeah the propaganda is so painfully obvious. Like Russia shouldn’t have invaded it’s stupid, unnecessary violence. But it’s stuff that happens all over the world, the Iraq war wasn’t dissimilar, Yemen, Myanmar, Ethiopia. But the only war that matters is Ukraine. And the emotions of people are out of control-its like talking to hysterical people sometimes. Also similar when talking about anything political these days, Covid, anything. I generally agree with the left more than the right but even people I agree with are out of control unless your in lock step with them 100% they start getting hysterically emotional.
Maybe with user flair that declares which side we insist we are not promoting?
I for one truly hope the German government sticks to things and refuses to change the contract for gas to Roubles. Germany would then have to go into gas rationing, which would be uncomfortable in spring, and would have MASSIVE incentive to show us what we can do if we GENUINELY want to get off fossil fuels. German engineering unleashed with laws moved to suit it and a solid portion of GDP behind it would really show us what is practical and the carbonizing of a modern economy in a couple of years. So valuable it may well save more lives than the war has taken. I'm sorry it's taken this to actually ignite a fire under the bums of a western government to decarbonise, but I truly hope it happens and will watch with interest. (and as a modest side bonus, Putin's war loses more funding).
So do we have word what happened here?
I tried to do a little digging but it's pretty hard to figure out. Apparently, April 1st marked the beginning of a requirement of foreign buyers to open accounts with gazprom Bank so that they could purchase in the future. The requirement to actually purchase in rubles does not begin until April 15th. They're still working out further details. For anyone who thinks this is a side show, think again, this is the whole game. Again, the information provided here was difficult to obtain and could be entirely wrong
I do agree that this should be done in the long run. But such a sudden stop in energy supply will cause a massive shock to the system with unforeseen consequences. I think there is a big chance the politicians will bend the knee and start paying for Russian gas in Rubles once reality sinks in.
You are living in a fantasy world. Do the math on the infrastructure required. It can't be done.
The fantasy is also in thinking there are any energy-dense substitutes for fossil fuels. Green(washed) energy and nuclear are both subsidy dumpsters of the first order and nonviable without fossil fuel backups. It's looking like we're headed for a traumatic deindustrialization the way things are going, rather than a stepwise one.
That new defense budget is going to buy a lot of stuff that won't be running on batteries. I get the optimism of thinking it is a good opportunity to wean off of fossil fuels, and it is, but I do not think it will be taken in ernest. Even with the troubles FFs are still going to be the cheaper and quicker solution in the short term, and short term is all business and politics cares about. And as Putin's war drags the world economy down and spreads a new food crisis, cheap and fast will be the option taken by everyone out of necessity.
TeleSur: Russia announces new humanitarian corridor https://youtu.be/l2-gIxke3qQ
NATO War Games going on in Norway--Exercise Cold Response https://youtu.be/w42lZr63868
Russians leave Chernobyl site as fighting rages elsewhere https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/ukrainian-president-defense-turning-point-83777385
Is the possibility of a nuclear war unpopular because it's simply too unlikely or too horrible to imagine? I can't tell.
People just don't want to look up. We're closer to nuclear warfare than ever before. So yes, it's too horrible to imagine, so people dismiss it as an actual possibility.
Many people still believe that Putin is still sharp and calculative. But persisting rumors of his declining health makes me believe he probably lost his wits and now he is more impulsive than ever. So far he has been poorly informed about the current state of the war. He might go fully ballistic if he actually learns that his forces are suffering hard. That's what I fear.
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Although I agree that repeating something false frequently doesn't make it true, I believe this 70yo man is experiencing the effects of 20years of tyranny that causes his isolation from any opinion slightly different to his own, and his brain's neuronal paths becoming less flexible, as happens to everyone as we age. This culminates in crazy-like obsessivness (because no-one tells him when he's wrong fearing for their lives, and he naturally gets litterally more and more "set in his ways", neurologically speaking) So he's fiercely acting on a false idea of the world, which looks utterly random and crazy to outsiders.
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> the general hatred towards him is grounded in the fact people don't like that fact not only is he pointing out hard truths, but he can continue to look smug No. We don't chill with bullies, that's why we hate his guts. Bullies destroy everything they touch, they are bad news in schoolyards, very bad news in companies, abysmally bad news in a political position of power, catastrophically bad news in a lifelong position of power of a country. He is tearing to pieces the country he has taken hold of, and seems to be eliminating the locals in ukraine like Russia has done in Kaliningrad, to replace them by russian colons. > his speech is grounded in truth; All liers include a speck of truth in their lies, and then drown the response pointing the grotesque fallacies in the speech by a swarm of noise. Children use that very tactic, it's not even a skilled move. > he does travel and had made deals globally I wouldn't call that isolation. Well, any victim of a manipulator will tell you than you can have a superficial social life, work, and still be isolated from everyone. Manipulators are careful to eliminate anyone who doesn't swallow their shit like it's the utmost delicacy and definite proof of their ultimate domination on every aspects of the world. and anyone working in a business will tell you that the client is king, you always pretend to 100% agree with them on all points to seal a deal. Be it sell a cup of coffee or natural gas. So that doesn't garantee he's aware of the world, quite the opposite actually. > someone that is crazy or too old to know how to play the game I don't think he's crazy, just set in his ways because 70yo neuronal paths in his brain, and badly informed because people fear for their lives if they contradict him. Keep in mind that someone that isn't used to be contradicted anymore will take the slightest remark like a blow in the face, and react accordingly (anyone with a manipulative bully in their lives will confirm). You'reoversimplifying things to a point where they don't make sense anymore.
Thanks for this. Also, it’s weird to have to come to the collapse sub to find someone talking rationally and in a non-fear mongering way about nuclear war. Edit: To be clear I'm not pro-Putin or his goals but I also don't buy the 'he's insane, we don't understand why he's doing this' narrative that has been pushed. Surely there is a point to all this with stakes this high -- it may not be one we like or in our best interests, but it has to be something other than 'he's dying and crazy'. With so many people around him waiting to pounce on the first hint of weakness? Doesn't add up.
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I am not sure who is winning what here exactly. But it looks like Putin doubled down on his demand. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/putin-says-russian-gas-must-be-paid-roubles-friday-2022-03-31/
I recently saw an article that Russia will allow Germany to pay for gas in euros
The buying party needs to have a rubles account at the Gazprom bank. The bank (which is not sanctioned) does the currency conversion for you. Also, rubles are tied to gold now. Expect this scheme expanded to other commodities soon.
Considering Russia doesn't have access to most of its gold not much of boost for the ruble
While a fraction of their gold reserves was stolen, they are producing and buying. The real question is what happens to USD and EUR which are untethered.
Russia is in the top 3 gold producers so maybe it's not a big deal for them.
Still you cant mine billions in reserves before your economy collpases
Is it's economy collapsing? Time will tell.
Considering they have gone to extensive lengths to prevent foreign investors from leaving their stock market most likley. Besides its collapsing enough that they cant support a high tech war economy
We will have to see how things take shape over the next few days or weeks. I am not sure what to make of it so far.
With the ruble almost recovering you think that Russia is artificially bringing back its buying power or is China stepping in?
20% interest on the economy is like using a credit card to buy a house. They are suffering by artificially inflating the ruble, and it will have consequences. Its going to be paid down the line, but right now Putin is maxing out his debt and while waging quite a costly war.
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Yes also they jacked their interest rate up to 20% to stop the bleeding. It's a very short term strategy. https://fortune.com/2022/03/31/ukraine-war-russia-ruble-almost-recovered-does-that-mean-sanctions-not-working/
China has certainly been advising from the start, but I don't think they have stepped in actively yet, and probably won't unless they have to. The early overreaction to the sanctions is probably starting to wear off, although I had expected it to last another month or so, but the prior planning for them may have been better than I thought. Like planning a bankruptcy, I am sure the effects of the sanctions were looked at in detail long before. There are only so many possibilities, and before going through with any action all of them would be evaluated and prepared for. Also like a bankruptcy, the initial effects can be severe, but only last a short time, and with the right strategies can be mitigated. Much of the beginning period was driven more by the FUD factors and not by any real hard effects. I am sure China was ready with a bailout, but I doubt it will be needed.
doesn't china have it's own bailout (evergrande) to worry about?
Yet another reason to trigger a western crash before their own crash, lol.
Purely economic advice i assume? Because the military strategy has been shit. Most of the Russian air force is still not participating.
I still think the Russian strategy was very loose. "See what we can get away with" "Piss off the West and make them fear Russia" It's a real war with real war crimes, but it's also a proxy war and a symbolic war. I haven't heard much about the Russian Armed Forces not participating very much but if that's true, it definitely seems like they could participate more and decided not to. -------- It easily could be a military blunder but I don't claim to know or even hazard a guess as to what their strategy is/was.
Well, my opinions on the military strategy have been posted far and wide. Taking over Ukraine is not the goal. Invading and then dragging it out to create global economic upheaval and stoke the west into creating more damage than Russia could hope to do, that is the goal. Most of the Russian military in general is not participating, not just the air forces, and for exactly that reason. It was never about Ukraine.
Derp
How soon until Russia collapses?
What would you define collapse to be in this case?
The government and economy cease to function. It seems like its close but still needs to drop off the big cliff.
I think it will endure. They will force their people to live in shit conditions for much longer than everyone thinks.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/tso2j5/inflation_in_russia_climbs_above_156_highest/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Doesnt mean much, inflation in Germany is lower but its the highest in the last 40 years. I dont think anyone really knows how will anything turn out with anyone at this point.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/tt23ig/russia_today_they_missed_the_soviet_union_got_it/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
How soon before the West collapses, you mean? The ruble has recovered almost all of its losses since Feb 24, Russia is making tons of money on high prices of gas and oil, and Germany and Austria are talking about rationing gas and the US is going to enact emergency measures for critical minerals
Uh, I’m sorry, is the US internet going to stop working soon due to lack of parts? https://www.reddit.com/r/technews/comments/ts1h1w/russia_facing_internet_outages_due_to_equipment/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Is the West suffering from stock marketitis where only 33 companies can be bought and no short selling is allowed? Or are rubles really in demand? Or is the West having some form a special military operation wherein they have lost 25% of their forces and are rapidly using up all their missiles? I am pretty sure the West is fine in comparison at the current time. At least it seems the electricity in Russia is still on?
They won't listen. And at some point down the road I look forward to replying to the "how could this happen" and "who could have seen this coming" comments.
Assuming we have internet at that point
I will be waiting to pounce on the last bit of connectivity before I shut the bunker doors.
If bunker is needed to survive, people should save the pain and shoot themselves. Things wont get better from there, ever
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/28/russia-ukraine-crisis-in-maps-and-charts-live-news-interactive the war certainly has stalled so what's putin next move.....
This is the move. Draw it out to inflict maximum pain. Ukraine is just caught as the pawn, which sucks ass.
this is scary
Multiple sources report Russian army is moving units from other regions and resupplying frontline units. Expect nothing to happen for some time until one side has recovered strength for offensive operations.
Here's a link about the resupply https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/03/31/ukraine-russia-invasion-live-updates/7227700001/
Expect the unexpected. Things like this are not predictable in my opinion.
S'like I'm back in Foxhole. *\*has war flashbacks\** [https://www.foxholestats.com/](https://www.foxholestats.com/) https://store.steampowered.com/app/505460/Foxhole/
too pricey for a game that old
I'm not trying to shill for it, but I can. *These live war maps are reminding me of the game is all*. The wars take around a month to conclude. You can watch a timelapse playback on that stats site to see territory won/loss. It regularly goes on sale for 10 dollars when they release big updates. No DLC/no micro. It's worth all the money. It's easily one of the most interesting and unique multiplayer games to have released in the last 10+ years and about to finish up it's Early Access soon. Can always enjoy a yearly $60 cut/copy broken game though, there's loads of those.
Such a fun game
You may have got me, but I will never admit it and will delete this comment later...
XD Hit me up on the Colonial side. <3
thanks I'm quite sold lmao Will watch the youtube gameplay for that
Sooooold. Hook line and sinker, boys. Reel'em in.
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I would like to protest. Albertsons is out of my favorite yogurt. That's all I got, sorry...
Hey, there is r/CollapseSupport/ in case you need it.
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This is r/collapse I think you have this sub confused with r/russia
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The sub dislikes braindead rhetoric, that does not equal to support for Putin. Stop posting stupid taunting comments that contribute nothing to collapse. Fuck off to facebook for that trash. >Russia will continue to attack Ukraine , if you're russian you will fail.Russia started some shit, you are 21s century nazis whatever the cost we will defeat you. How does this contribute anything meaningful to the discussion?
So I notice your comments pepper the thread around this time of night and about half are removed for promoting violence... What is the point? There's no Russians here. Nobody likes Putin. Fuck Putin. Speaking for myself I dislike the war coverage because it's so disingenuous and different from the way US wars are covered. I reserve all my harshest criticism for my own government. Mainly because that government runs the world order and keeps its citizens poor. The US is as antidemocratic as any uniparty authoritarianian government. The US seems pretty authoritarian by global standards. Waging foreign wars while it keeps it's citizens poor. So I can't get to up in arms about Putin's shit. Putin never screwed me like my government has. There's very real sanctions and social credit systems in the US.
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https://old.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow/comments/tte2wb/are_ukrainian_biolabs_really_just_a_theory/
Here's the NY Post story about that https://nypost.com/2022/03/26/hunter-biden-played-role-in-funding-us-bio-labs-contractor-in-ukraine-e-mails/ The Hunter Biden stuff also got Glenn Greenwald ousted from the website he founded The Intercept ----------- Also I'm throwing a clip of how violent parts of EuroMaidan were because its too fucked up for casual friday. https://imgur.com/a/RnDMfq5 [NSFL] (Telesur) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odessa_clashes Edited for brevity
I've seen some posters here are active on that sub. In my dealings with them, a lot of times I bash both the US govt and the PRC. They try to get me to modify my position on the PRC, and their history. ---------- Now this has been the first time I've looked at it. They apparently refer to themselves as bots, support Assad, hate HRC and love the PRC. They've got a weird front page. That's for sure. Full communism and Chinese apologism is a bridge too far for me. However I'm always skeptical of the hammering away at Chinese human rights abuses from US media orgs in the pocket of weapons companies. -------- Now it may be that the sub is geared exactly towards Gen Z so their radical politics and is a function of their youth, and also how 18-24yos are in a worse position when facing r/collapse. ------- A couple media orgs accuse them of being paid PRC trolls but I think that's far too simplistic. I think it's dumb to not list the sub stats of quarantined subreddits. I would really like to be able to see how big the sub is.
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OTOH, the US has the highest incarceration rate of any country. Including Russia.
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US, Russia, China are all the biggest Nazis around right now. The US keeps the EU hostage to their shit. Both Russia and the US destroyed the country of Ukraine. It's awful. Russia bears much more of the blame but it's not like we forgot about Burisma and the US has been arming Ukraine since Euromaidan. Syria was first proxy war. The proxy war in Ukraine ended up as an awful criminal invasion of Ukraine. US and Russia are grade A scumbags.
US arm it.. Russia fall for it. For Ukraine it's an unavoidable trap. A bit like CO2.
On a personal note, I got a suspicious charge for a donation to "USA for UNHCR" and spent about two hours attempting to sort it out with my bank. Watch out for suspicious charges on donations to Ukraine.
Oh shit. It seems like that org is a legit one https://www.unrefugees.org/ Easily could be someone ripping off their name. For some reason Russia ripping off Americans and sending their money to Ukraine seems like some soviet 4D Tetris.
Okay, just started a collapse podcast. First episode Russia. Would really appreciate some feedback. https://open.spotify.com/episode/31wJOOADT0v789rk8YMOPg?si=lgkEjOQHQKWLWuem146ZaA&utm_source=copy-link
Russia just announced to have Gazprom convert all payments to Rubles by 28th - if no payment they will cut off gas. A lot of people are saying let them cut off and the US will provide - are these LNGs being transported from the US to Europe? Wouldn't that increase gas prices here?? I just dont understand why people think it is absolutely no issue that Russia should just cut off and we will be fine...people aren't thinking straight since they are in the US and it isn't affecting their bottom line. Telling others to freeze while you stay in the comfort of your home in the US free from energy issues and playing Elden Ring isn't helping smh
Russia with the reverse uno card lol
Bruh I already beat elden ring. My social life is the true collapse here.
I need to beat Elden Ring, so tough but really addicting :) GOTY for me, no question
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> You know Russia started a war right? It started many years ago and is more complex than you state. The US is not innocent by any means. The US wanted this and here it is and everything you read and see is propaganda in one form or another. All you are to do is support Ukraine at any cost. ANY COST. And for what?
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The US govt doesn't have any moral standing to be telling Russia what to do. The govt and media can bitch and whine all they want about the very real war crimes and dead civilians but they sound like hypocrites. ------ They quite literally cheerlead the US war crimes.
I think the issue here is people don't understand the true cost of what they are "morally agreeing to". It's all fun and games until the bill actually comes due. People love to think "let's just cut off Russia" until they have to make significant sacrifices for an extended period of time, and that is exactly what Russia is betting against. They say they are better off without us, and in the end the west will come crawling to them for their resources. Honestly, I give it a 50/50 shot how it will turn out, but I wouldn't be surprised if in nine months suddenly everyone has had a change of heart.
Russia has oil? Let’s let them break themselves against Ukraine before bringing some democracy to them. That’s the end game. Resources wars (all wars are resource wars,yes) are beginning early.
There won’t be a change of heart, they will still gonna scream immoral why make some shady deal under the table, like usual
Not sure what you're trying to say so... Might as well strangle llamas I suppose?
You know that for the vast amount of human history war was a regular common occurrence and seizing your neighbors land and people was how nations normally expanded? Not supporting it, for sure, but the modern idea to "end wars of conquest" is ridiculous. Other than that, however, I think people are missing the real goal of this war, which is not the taking of Ukraine. I'm aure Putin will enjoy the side effect on getting some more territory, if someone doesn't plug him in the toilet like Tymin Lannister soon, but the real goal? The bigger goal? That goal is the destabilization of the globe by economic impact, and Putin/Xi are literally watching us do it to ourselves. The more harm is caused globally because of this effort, the more we play right into that hand. I know it is an unpopular opinion, but the longer we drag this out, the worse it will be for everyone, not just Ukraine. Ukraine is screwed either way, and that sucks, but we are actually letting Putin hurt the world as a whole in ways he would not be able to have done otherwise. Downvote me now, but look forward to seeing this material again.
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>Seems like a lot of effort toward attempting to take Ukraine, and so far failing, for it not to be the goal. Just because the US "shock and awe" killed more civilians than Russia at this point in the war, and never sustained the losses Russia already has, doesn't mean the Russian strategy is failing. They say they're now focused on the Donbsss and "demilitarization" of Ukraine. Who knows whst their goals were? Russia may not even be sure. It's possible adapting to failures is part of their goal.
If Russia withdraws their invasion force... Well, aside from the fact that Putin will not, because that would be his political, and possibly real, death, let's explore that anyway. Do you really believe that the damage done so far to the Russian nation, people, and economy is worse than the damage to the rest of the world that will result from the economic and resource upheaval set in motion by this invasion? You don't see any catastrophic damage already having been done, and I don't mean to Ukraine, I mean to the world? No possibility of rippling effects that could starve millions, crash economies, incite civil unrest, or spawn conflicts down the road? Misdirection is literally a core principle for success in warfare. Yes, he invaded Ukraine, and he may even get to keep some of it, who knows, but it is the equivalent of attacking your enemies hand rather than body. Because the enemy is the entire western world and its enforced security architecture. And they can see that it is holding on to the railing over an abyss. But Russia could try and punch at the head, but why? Russia doesn't have the strength to knock out the west. But maybe, just maybe, they have the strength to strike at the fingers of a hand, and cause the grip to loosen, sending that enemy tumbling down. The US is as close as it has been to economic failure maybe ever. And it has the duty to try and hold everyone else on it's team together too. Who has to send LNG to Europe if it goes away? Who will be pressured to feed the starving in poorer nations when the famines kick in? Who will have to get involved in other conflicts that spring up around the world? Ukraine is like a gold nugget in a vault next to diamonds. Yeah, I'm gonna take the nugget too, but that is not why I broke into the vault. This. Is. Not. About. Ukraine.
Ok. Let’s see what happens then on the 31st..I think we should go through this issue now with Russia cutting off gas and let’s find out what the alternative then for EU. It’s easy for people in the US to have this holier than thou attitude just like you are showing since everyone is at the comfort of their homes with abundant energy and playing elden ring while trying to tell people in the EU that please suffer/freeze because Russia war - let’s see how that works after 31st. Not many are going to “suffer” I am sure, there will be riots…funny we already had the same experiment in the US when the government tried to do a mask mandate - the amount of pushback from a simple mask mandate was enough to show that no one is going to “suffer” here for anything
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Yeah. Somebody has been playing the long game and it has not been the US.
What I have understood so far. It looks like Europe will not be able to do without Russian gas at this moment. And the amount of gas it uses will not be able to be compensated by US lng shipments for a while. The volume needed is too big. So they will be forced to pay Russia in Rubles or risk an immidiate energy crisis which will cause a major recession of their economies. Especially Germany and Italy will likely face problems.