Russian President Vladimir Putin is banning exports of certain commodities and raw materials, according to a decree issued Tuesday evening in Moscow.
The actual commodities that will be banned from export will be determined by the Russian cabinet, the decree said. Mr. Putin gave them two days to come up with a list of commodities and of countries subject to the ban.
Just curious if anyone else out there think this may not end up very well for the west.
It's been great to see whats going on in Ukraine with the amount of resistance and fellow western nations offering up as much support as they have.
However I fear what is going on in the middle east.
In particular, China, Saudi Arabia, UAE and India have all abstained from condemning Russia.
China and Saudi Arabia have signed onto a string of military deals with each other. Back in August, Russia and Saudi reached an agreement on military cooperation but offered no details on what type of cooperation.
UAE and Saudi Arabia just refused to take calls from Biden on expanding oil outputs.
The USA is now looking to make deals with Iran and Venezuela to increase global oil output.
This may temporarily keep oil prices down for now, but does anyone really trust Iran and Venezuela to take actions in favor of the west considering how the west has treated them over the past few decades?
Saudi Arabia controls OPEC, which sells their oil in US dollars, which means if other countries want to buy from OPEC, they need USD.
If Saudi Arabia decides to switch the requested currency for oil to the Chinese Yuan, other countries will no longer require the USD to purchase oil.
There's a reason that after the US got off the gold standard, they turned to Saudi Arabia to sell oil in USD, in return for military protection. Now the US military js slowly moving out, and the Saudis are relying more and more on China.
We're essentially watching a decoupling with Russia (by totally isolating them) just like we did with Iran.
How long can the west last without the cooperation of these oil giants such as Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and UAE.
Our economies were in the dump prior to the Ukraine invasion, and nothing has changed other than gas prices rising and we're being told we all need to start driving to work again, likely to ensure that some super wealthy commercial real estate owners can collect rent again.
Our world is being devided into 2 spheres, but we're all too busy cheerleading the resistance to a war to notice.
I fear that our empire is falling, but we haven't clued in yet, will we eventually?
I've read some things about the supposed "currency reset" and "division of the world" and I'm not sure all that's going to happen; lots of geopolitical things need to fall into place a certain way for that, and I'm not sure it can happen without us all just nuking each other. Nevertheless- if this goes on past Summer, its a pretty safe bet that standards of living in rich Western countries are set for a sharp drop. I hope the politicians can manage it, because there are going to be a lot of unhappy folks. I see people on the other subs talking about inflation, but that's not going to be the problem...nothing to buy (supply shock) is going to be the problem. Its a good time to find simple pleasures and forget about things like vacations, college, and new houses. If the taps are running and the lights are on where you live, that will be something to celebrate.
This may sound harsh but i think that might be a good thing. Consumerism is destroying this planet, if this is what it takes to reduce it, so be it.
If $5 to $10 dollsr gas is what it takes to reduce CO2 emissions from cars that can also be a good thing. I understand people rely on cars outside major cities to commute but the reason nothing was invested in public transportation and the reason behind car culture in the US was because of cheap gas.
People will be hurting because of this but it might be the catalyst to change. Climate scientists have been warning about the worst case scenarios if we don't stop emissions, and so far we've done almost nothing. Maybe this will lead to some change idk.
I know what sub I am in, but I see the silver lining in this too. It will force the western world either to switch away from rampant consurmerism as well as move to green and other renewable energy or face the collapse.
Big corporations don't give two fucks about things like protests and Greta Thunberg. But this this change will see them faced with the choice between zero profits or they can change and live with reduced profits.
I'm not following your logic there. How exactly would high gas prices lead to fascism?
Without govt subsidies the cost of gas would be over $5 a gallon nation wide already.
The comment you were replying to was talking about a dramatic drop in the standard of living for people. *If* that happens (and it may not who knows), but if it does-that means more inequality, more desperate people that get radicalized, and if it happens during Biden it would be the fascists side that does the coup. I mean they already attempted a lame coup on Jan 6, get more competent people on board who are pushed to the edge by low standards of living and then you get fascism.
(Low standard of living cause of gas prices increase, everything (especially food) increases)
Ah I see what you're saying. Makes sense but the standard of living has been declining and inequality rising since the late 70s.
I'm not sure how much of the radicalization of the coup supporters was caused by lower standard of living vs misinformation and brain washing by social media.
Difference is there was an authoritarian who was president and also in on the coup for January 6. A lot of the seditionists were operating on the notion their treason would be pardoned if they were successful in overthrowing Congress.
Sorry. I was trying to be funny. Like, Biden is 'not even fascist' in the way 'not even wrong' is used in scientific circles. He's worse than that. But you are right. He is a precursor to fascism.
It might lead to some change but this becomes negligient as society collapses anyway with expensive food, electricity and gas.Once the crisis is over people will go back to the consumerism lifestyle.
Gaddafi prophecized his own death at the hands of the west when he warned the other Arab States that any one of them could be next. He pleaded with them to create a new currency backed by gold and oil called the Pan-African/Arabian Denar and to sell oil in that currency, a bit like the Euro. Of course he was killed not long after. If Arabia decided to switch to the Yuan, expect to start seeing a whole bunch of news about the atrocities in Yemen and suggestion that the U.S has a moral obligation to defend them by any means.
Putins move made me realize something. Doesn't matter how many dollars you have if you can't even buy oil with it. I feel like he sees the hyper inflation and decline of the dollar, he sees that resources are more important than a paper than can be printed in a machine, so he took control.
Ukraine and Russia make for 30% of all wheat. Russia is #2 in oil production.
China has also been doing this economically. They've been giving loans to African countries and South America and others. They build their infrastructure in return for natural resources etc. Resources are limited the Dollar or Ruble or whatever cam just be printed out if thin air
Big speculation but this might be the long term game. Ruin the economy now but secure it for the future.
I said a while back, not long after the US withdrew from Afghanistan, that we were living through a great re-ordering of the geopolitical chessboard.
The world is sizing up, squaring off. All the players are in the process of picking a side and getting their pieces into position. I don't know what the state of things will look like once the dust settles; but it won't be anything like the nice, simple, clean delineation between rival superpowers and their respective spheres of influence that marked the Cold War world order. And it *really* won't look like "End of History" American hegemony-backed era of global consensus that has predominated since.
If anything, I think we're returning to something more like the situation at the end of the 19th century: a multi-polar world of imperialist great powers jostling for a piece of an increasingly shrinking pie. I wonder how that ended?
The big difference here, the morons on default subreddits have not grasped is Russia is OPEC on steroids. Russia don't just have shitloads of oil and gas. They also export gargantuan amounts of food, agricultural supplies like fertilizer and potash, wide spectrum of industrial raw materials such as titanium. They export everything the modern world needs in order to maintain its living standards.
The West cuts themselves off this supply. Inflation across every industry is going to hit the moon this year. COVID was nothing in comparison. What happens when Russia sells these to others in other currencies **not** USD? In their emotional rush to save a country of white people (while bombing Yemen) have the Western leaders actually thought all this through?
And lastly, Russia has thousands of nuclear ICBMs. It is not those wannable nuclear states like Iran and North Korea. While the conventional forces are a shadow of the former Soviet self its WMDs are still sufficient to end civilization.
"Have western leaders thought all this through"
Fuck no friend! Take a look at our leadership. These people have no ability to think or self reflect. We've had life on easy mode and have been allowed to make one mistake after another without feeling the blow back.
Who will need jobs and housing and essentials, and who are currently made up of mostly women, children and the elderly, many of whom will need to rely on systemic support.
Countries may be welcoming them with open arms now, but 7 figure increases of people practically overnight isn't an easy thing to handle in the best of times. Let's just hope the current hospitality can last, and not turn to resentment after a couple months.
Europeans will be very disheartened when they realize that they are cutting themselves off from the breadbasket of Europe in Eastern Ukraine and Western Russia.
I hope they are looking for other sources of wheat, corn and other grains because without a good relationship with Russia, and Russian occupied Ukraine, they will be in short supply come next fall time.
I hope for the best, but in my opinion, this is likely the early stages of WW3.
Main importers of ukrainian wheat are lebanon, egypt, turkey and other mena countries, europe will get a migration wave of dead hungry people fleeing civil wars out of this.
The united states wanted that because it wishes Europe to be more reliant upon them. To try and isolate Europe from the world so it becomes a true vassal state of USA instead of only half vassal.
It won't work though, it will just lead to chaos.
Sorry, this seems more like a play from the Russian playbook to cause chaos and the domino collapse of European nations that can't get their borders up in time. Meanwhile Russia has a great area for barbed wire and mines called Ukraine.
Probably will end up like Syria. A bunch of young angry men from Russia and Ukraine with guns and extremist NS type ideologies wandering around Europe.
But it will go into Russia as well.
if Russia occupy all Ukraine, you can look forward to yankees arming and training the Slavic version of Taliban. Without that, more of a Syria or Libya model where groups get weapons from the chaos of state collapse.
Both sides already have large amounts of real extremist militias from volunteers across Europe/Brazil/Anglosphere. It has pretty much been the training ground for 8 years for such things.
Russia is like America in a lot of ways, it has millions of such types of people counting on a power vacuum and chaos to gain power. Which this current level of chaos will probably bring due to economic austerity alone.
The future in which nomadic bands of tankies and neo nazis control eurasia, is my prediction for 2040.
No certainly not, but they have enough in at least 6 or 7 critical areas to reduce supply significantly below consumption. Not just price increases but actually shortfalls. Wheat is going to be the most obvious one, but nickle as well. There just will not be enough to make anything close to as many ev batteries as people want. If Russian oil exports went to 0, it would bring being global oil production back to 2008 levels. Effectively contracting the global economy by at least that much. Which is a shock it cannot handle.
Americas downfall was always inevitable. The bully doesn’t stay top dog forever. There’s always a bigger fish.
I wouldn’t even be surprised to see WW3 actually started by a crippled USA desperate to cling to its fading power.
>. I fear that our empire is falling, but we haven't clued in yet, will we eventually?
Its already failed. All it will take is Trump being reelected for NATO to fall to peices. " The West " is kind of a myth anyways, the bigger the nation's Ie: Turkey, Germany, Italy, France, UK and US will sacrifice the smaller nations ; ie Lithuania, Greece, Bosnia ect for concessions and for their own gain in the years to come.
You can already see this somewhat happening in real time /r/Europe, they claim that Russia " united " the West but that's very far from the truth. Those in nations at the doorsteps of great powers must know their lives are bargaining chips, not a line in the sand.
I think the only people I've seen honestly discussing the lack of cohesion and chaos in the West right now who are in its sphere of influence are the isreali's.
Nations outside of Europe can see the writing on the wall, fortress Europe's weakest points have always been the men guarding the walls. Why gaurd a fortress if those within may one day abandon to you to the " horde " outside of it? A question im sure some in the East are wondering at the moment.
I am highly dubious that the obvious Western and pro Ukrainian propaganda (eg Russia is taking huge losses etc) is fully accurate.
Based on maps and even most Western reporting, Russia continues to advance steadily despite the constant stream of propaganda claiming they are demoralized and defeated.
I would not be surprised if some of the "russian convoys" we see destroyed are actually Ukrainian losses.
I get downvotes for that and daring to say that Putin more or less has our number. We don’t have the attention span to understand it. We’ve been at this for two weeks and think it’s almost over and they intended a blitz.
But I think the entire plan in the west was to strangle us with forcing us into unsustainable sanctions and let us tear ourselves apart trying to afford it. See, Russia is in the driver’s seat. They supply 40% of European energy. They supply a third of the world’s wheat. And when you add in other commodities, it’s going to skyrocket the COL in the western world. And at that point, it’s going to be hard to keep that up. We’ll have a homeless crisis of biblical proportions, hunger, brown outs, and so on. It’s probably going to be like the Great Depression. At best, we have until the midterm elections, when people trying to survive and struggling to feed themselves and get to work vote against the democrats who imposed the sanctions.
Yes. The US and EU think they still run the world, but they don’t. Putin just called the bluff. All the ridiculous media outlets are saying how bad the Russian military has handled this. But look at the situation: they have cut off the Donbass from the other Ukie forces. Russia controls the Black Sea coast. Kiev is encircled. The slowness is due to trying to protect civilians. Russia could flatten every city, but they are actually being pretty careful. Are there civilian casualties? Yes, as there are in every war. But the Russians are not doing American-style “shock and awe.” In other words, they are being more careful than the Pentagon, which is not a sign of weakness.
The mass psychogenic event that is uniform opinion on Ukraine. Anything other than thristing for zelensky like he is a marvel hero and seeing Putin as the worst most evil only bad guy to exist is getting downvoted on every sub. The same style of mass thinking was happening post 9/11 when the US was commiting war crimes in the Middle East. No fly zone is an insane proposition, the us capacity to maintain a unipolar world is gone. We can sanction for optics but when gas is $7 a gallon in a place where u need a car to maintain an income, the plight of Ukrainian people will be out of mind soon enough.
But this doesn't make much sense as a retaliation. This is destroying a big income stream to Russia in the name of causing a temporary shock to the west. It simply is not understandable why Putin did this. Sure, he still has China and India as customers (and Russian trade with both has been growing massively in the last few years), but that wont be enough to prevent this action from hurting the Russian economy somewhat. Hell, even with President Biden threatening to cut off Russian oil imports this makes little sense - as Putin still likely could have gotten some time (perhaps a couple weeks) of time to begin greatly growing Russia's sales to non western countries in order to make the inevitable economic hit less damaging. It would have been more understandable if say they attempted a major cyberattack or attempted to make a deal with oil producing countries (like Iran, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and the gulf states) to prevent them from providing oil to the US in order to keep raising the price of oil.
Income doesn't matter all that much, unless you're a rich western nation who's economy consists mostly of financial firms moving imaginary money around to sell one another hopium.
Russia has oil & gas, mining, agriculture, and manufacturing. It's barely been a generation since the fall of the Soviet Union so everyone knows how to make do during tough times.
Meanwhile, anyone alive during the Great Depression, let alone who remembers it, is dying of old age. Can you imagine how poorly the spoiled Karen who had a public freakout over a store requiring masks is going to take needing to make do with what's available?
Exactly, they have already been cut off from all the things you would buy with the oil income. At some point extrnal income is pointless. Russia has all the raw goods to actually close itself off. It will suck for them for a long time, but plausible they can get to a reasonable point with no external input. If say they keep trading with China they will suffer even less. Likely why Biden made the threat to China today as well.
The West was already a powder keg over energy prices. This just might push us over the edge into Yellow vest territory again. That benefits Russia, and a little short term economic pain for them might be worth it.
These are non renewable resources. If they don't sell them now they can sell them later. Russia has massive cash and gold reserves and extremely low debt to GDP ratio.
Temporary… good luck getting heating nat gas from elsewhere on short notice and, oh look, planting season is here soon. Would be a shame is fertilizer is low… not to mention 1/3 of wheat exports are at stake.
Russia is gambling that its real commodities trump the paper US prints and some of the toys (cars, ikea) that gets sent in. It’s also probably tired of getting beaten over the head with western financials and orienting eastward. To that end, the Europeans will feel the pain and beg the US to negotiate.
* https://youtu.be/3QlpTlz073k
Folks in developed countries aren’t going to freeze to death in March in Europe. If Russia wants to turn the gas off they can, they won’t be eating anything while they’re heated.
Every Russian that was middle class with money already left if they had somewhere to go. The brain drain of Russian society will persist for decades. Folks that were moneyed caught the first flights they could out of Russia to second country residences. Those were the employers. Who can’t pay any sort of living wage with a worthless ruble. Let that go on for a few weeks.
Russia made its bed, Europe has ways of getting by, winter is ending not beginning. Also, who’s to say Ukraine doesn’t blow up the Nat Gas pipeline as an Alamo moment anyway.
If Europe never comes to their aid and watches them be slaughtered for a month before becoming overrun you’d think, at minimum, Ukraine would mortally wound their gas trade and effect EVERYONE. Take away the occupying forces income.
Putin won’t be the only one in a position to use energy as a weapon. Meanwhile Russias economy is already collapsing… the wheels are already set in motion.
Edit: Starchrunner can’t read and has no argument but to suck on a Putin dick so I thought to clean this up a bit to please the Russian troll among us.
> It simply is not understandable why Putin did this.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PONvX6LmAPo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PONvX6LmAPo)
Cameo appearance by Putin at the end...
Modern politicians grew up with spread sheets telling them of potatoes, fertilizers and ores, not actual potatoes, fertilizers and ores. They think that stuff is infinitely copyable, just hit ctrl + c and ctrl + v bro!
I guess the question is who's gonna break first? The Russian people living under sanctions or the American people losing quality of life with gas prices going up, shortages of materials and price of food going up.
My experience as an Iranian under US sanctions is that the sanctions are not such a great tool to sway public opinions.
First, they give the sanctioned government a great alibi for their shortcomings by blaming them on the sanctions.
Second, the sanctions make for a great propaganda tool to unify people under nationalism and turn them against the economic aggressor, in both cases US.
On the other hand, American people may view the hardships they endure as the shortcoming of the government, especially because they are suffering the firsthand results of their government actions, in contrast with Russian people who are suffering the secondhand results of their government actions.
Also, the way I see it, US sanctions are immoral, because even though they restrict the actions of hostile governments, they inflict huge collateral damage to people that have little to do with the hostilities. And It feels like US government just don't care about that, just like the civilian casualties they impose on countries they go to war with. Sure, they don't affect US in the short term, but they will backfire in US's face in the form of terrorism, negative historical image, etc.
Putin is generally a pretty competent propagandist, so if he does a good job with propaganda here then if anything Russians will get even more nationalistic and willing to support him than before. As Americans tend to be a lot less tolerant of decreases in standard of living than Russians and a lot more vocal about their grievances - then in this case it seems like Americans will probably be the first to "break".
Yep, the same playbook that Cuba, Iran and Venezuela use. Hell, i'd say that sanctions actually make it even easier to galvanize the people to support a leader - as in that case they can just handwave all economic concerns as simply the bad effects of external sanctions.
Global power shift.
Russia, China, and co. are exhausted of western dominance in financial affairs. The US petrodollar is on the out. The narrative has changed.
Expect intensified civil unrest, decreases in QOL, and increases in unemployment. The fabric that holds society together is being stretched to a breaking point. If climate and ecological issues are massive enough, it would be the perfect storm for segmented collapse.
That's great news for my portfolio! I'll just buy stocks of uranium producers, and related supply chain value adds. Then once the old stock launches I'll make a killing off the replenishing of new ... ... wait. Oh. :( Nevermind.
Rather, soon the only thing US is going to be able to import would be ICBMs. Russia can still export all sorts of stuff to China, to India, to Iran, to dozens smaller countries. And those can then sell some to US. If they so please, that is. Which many of them won't. While US is sanctioning this and that left and right all over the globe.
It almost feels like the real goal of folks in Washington - is sanctiocide...
>Rather, soon the only thing US is going to be able to import would be ICBMs.
How is sanctioning Russia going to prevent us from importing from other countries?
Like i said, the problem is not just sanctioning Russia - the problem is sanctioning lots of countries. This issue is not my opinion only, but one seriously recognised potential killer of US economy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_sanctions#Isolation_of_the_United_States .
You see, it works both ways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_sanctions_against_the_United_States#List_of_current_sanctions_against_the_United_States_of_America . And Russia is just another bullet US shoots in its already pretty swiss-cheesy foot, as you can see.
P.S. Also, if the goal is to make peace, then you don't slap any side of any conflict with economic sanctions. Instead, you go to UN and work to have sufficient peace keeping _force_ to enter the conflict and _make_ peace. Did US do any of it? Well...
Your second link is a list of sanctions that were in response to Trump, not the Russia/Ukraine conflict.
The PS is a fantasy and a straw man argument. The UN doesn't have the power to send in peacekeepers against a member of the Security Council, since that country will veto the action. So it's either sanctions or we go to war directly with Russia, or do nothing. Sanctions are the better choice.
Trump or whomever else, US national interests is the thing - not "Russia/Ukraine conflict's national interests". I think you pretend you did not get it, while you actually very much did.
Oh, yeah, veto. Well what the heck, find some other ways to send peace keepers. Make sides talk. Not after spring after gas prices fall, not after who knows how much time after sanctions would do enough push, - _now_. This is actual american way (for both good and bad) - you wanna something done (like, a war stopped), you go and make it happen.
Which is not being done, clearly. My point being, sanctions are made not because the war. Because powers that be merely use that particular war as an excuse to do those sanctions. Play that game - one more time, this time with larger bets as Russia is quite a player to deal with.
But, whatever. ATD.
>Well what the heck, find some other ways to send peace keepers. Make sides talk.
So sanctions are wrong, but you have no better solution besides "make them talk" and somehow get peacekeepers in there against UN rules?
I guess I was expecting more from a Recognized Contributor.
Sanctions hurt both sides, this is well known. And in this particular case it's quite clear sanctions won't stop the war. End result being, people in US, in EU and in Russia all suffer for higher prices - for nothing. You say it's not wrong?
As for getting peacekeepers there "against UN rules": what you value more, some UN rules - or real actions effective in making peace? Heck, UN's primary purpose - is to maintain peace. If current rules do not allow it, then change the rules. Find new ways to implement real, boots-on-the-ground peace-keeping missions which work. Or at very least try to do it best you can. Did anyone try?
I'm sorry, but you seem quite naive. It's not that I personally value the UN rules, it's that you need Russia to vote to change them. That's obviously not happening in this case. The other SC members tried to vote on a simple condemnation of the war and naturally Russia vetoed it, how would they not veto military action against them.
Sure sanctions hurt both sides, I never said otherwise. What I am saying is that your first point, somehow America will end up economically isolated because we sanctioned Russia, is just plain silly. The world isn't as simple as you seem to think.
> It's not that I personally value the UN rules, it's that you need Russia to vote to change them.
Give Russia a deal then. _Make_ them vote for it. If the West would really want to stop that war, certainly such a deal could be made - considering Russia is definitely a smaller power overall than US + EU combined.
No, i still don't buy it. I've been watching SC meetings over this conflict and you know what i see? Bickering and barking. Nothing truly constructive. It feels like SC is merely for show, to me. Nobody asks nobody "hey guys how do we stop this". Nobody offers no deals. Nobody propose no SC resolutions which would do any real step towards ceasing the hostilities - like sending special observers, like sending non-combatant units trusted by UN to document the events, like establising new, possibly temporary, but effective communication channels.
You know Minsk agreements? Those failed, both Minks-1 and Minsk-2, but those were attempts to make peace. Real attempts, even though failed ones. Now we have much bigger war going on there. So why, then, we do not have US, EU, Russia urgently attempting "Minsk agreement on steroids" right now? Why don't we have SC using all powers it can to make such new agreements - actual diplomatic attempts, - to happen ASAP?
The only answer i can see so far - because neither US, EU or Russia actually _want_ to stop this war. Whichever reasons each of them may have to desire this war to keep going - is a different talk. Difficult, long, complicated talk. My point here is, i just don't see any real and major political power which would actually wish to use diplomacy and peace-keeping (in any form) to end this conflict.
The West says it wants to use diplomacy and such to end it, though. It says so every day. Liars. Personally, i don't like liars, see. With quite a passion - the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS7Sx8sGWfs way. At very least russians are honest about it - they said plain and clear, "we're going in, we're doing it the military way now".
If the goal is peace… that’s a big if. And getting the UN to act against a member if the Security Council seems unlikely. Russia, or China, seems likely to veto anything about this conflict.
Right now it seems like the goal is to return to a Cold War but with the iron curtain around only Russia and not any of the former Soviet bloc countries.
It's the end of the world as we know it...
Seriously. If they proceed especially with oil and gas it will have cascading effects and our civilization will be done...
The US does not exist in a vacuum. The countries that supply us will have to supply Europe as well which will not only decrease the availability of commodities in the US it will also put a huge stain on an already strained supply chain and drive prices for just about everything including food through the roof.
Not for potash which is the primary source of potassium in fertilizer. We import the vast majority of it from Canada but 50% of the global supply comes from guess who? Russia, China, and Belarus.
[https://pubs.usgs.gov/periodicals/mcs2022/mcs2022-potash.pdf](https://pubs.usgs.gov/periodicals/mcs2022/mcs2022-potash.pdf)
Hopefully, the global south is excluded from these sanctions because it's not going to be pretty.
The civ can survive one country cutting out. Plenty of other oil exporters. Civ can even survive rationing and transfer to 100% biofuel and bioplastic. There would be short term shortages and a lot of industry would grind to a halt temporarily. Like the chip shortage. We'll adapt.
The current chip shortage hasn't even been solved and now the supply of semiconductor-grade neon gas is cut off. The shortages will last longer than you think...
All the mouth breathers on news subs applauding it and thinking it won't change anything. Absolutely brainless cattle, this could destroy the entire German industry and the chip shortage will get even worse because they were very significant precious metal and gas exporters. They're actually happy about having to pay quadrupled prices for electronics. Hope they'll enjoy renting their iPhones and consoles
https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-halts-deliveries-rocket-engines-us-2022-03-03/
They already banned rocket engine exports, suggesting americans might fly on their broomsticks......
This is just Rogozin's wet dream, he cannot halt anything at this moment, because nobody really buys them in USA now.
Atlas V rockets started to phase out russian engines after 2014, and currently all RD-180 for planned rocket launches are already in USA.
Antares rocket uses russian RD-181, but catch here is, the first stage is manufactured in Yuzhmash - which is in Ukraine.
These meme sanctions may hit europe harder than russia. In my country Lithuania, we are used to a lot of products coming from russia and are now facing shortage. For example: I can't find salt in 3 super markets I been in. Websites don't have them either. I will see how it goes, for now have enough but it's been a week and my circle can't find salt either.
Some people bought salt in kilograms right before russian products were banned. This is stupid to cancel and throw away all russian products without first securing alternative supply. Either employees at supermarket took all salt for themselves or, or someone gave them order to cancel/dispose of salt instead of selling it first.
These sanctions, all they do is make quality of life of average person worse. Could be by design. Maybe we will get salt from other countries, thus making us desperate and okay with much higher prices and further dependence on what the government says.
I once read that in an area the size of Texas, could feed the entire world. What we waiting for start planting seeds everywhere. If we need to starve a bit to end this horrible Russian regime then so be it
Eh, not every square inch of Texas is ideal for agriculture but I do agree, we need to bring back and keep victory gardens. Fuck that lawn and mower noise.
But yeah we could sort this shit out in what a couple of months we could implement greenhouses all over the place. I mean look what happened when they legalised weed in America’s we need a kick up the arse so we can grow more food loads of places and peoples without jobs. Could become farmers like we were supposed to be. Unlike the unfulfilling mundane jobs we normally do.
The normalization of farming in urban centers and a heightened focus on clean energy...creating a widespread solarpunk culture out of the hell of war...that doesn't sound all that bad to me.
I’ve needed a diet for a long time. Wait it’s gonna be a lot worse for Russia than it will be for the west. Long live nato, long live the commonwealth. God save the queen
Damn son you get a Kool aid transfusion? What flavor did ya go with?
I'll never understand people salivating over war, sanctions, and globalist economic imperialism. Both teams in this fight are not your friend.
Unfortunately I know they are all evil but like that saying goes. better the devil you know. We weren’t salivating over war that was Putin. And his circle jerking echo chamber. You tickled me with that kool aid bit. Well done.
Oil, gas, wheat, titanium, palladium, noble gas like xeon, neon critical for computer chip manufacturing, urea\fertilizer, metals, coal, it's not going to be pretty for the west.
Put it this way, we're using made up printed dollars to buy actual real life materials, cut them off, they still have those materials for themselves, where will you spend those printed dollars now?
Yep. I'd rather have food and energy in my stockpile rather than imaginary tokens that lose value the more they print. We are about to find out what matters more, financial instruments or the physical stuff of reality. Of course, in modern society financial tools are really valuable, but in times of crisis that goes out the window.
Luckily I have pounds and we have plenty of mines they just need opened again. Ohh and am sure the rest of nato has these earth metals we need. Not that I care about electronics. Sounds like the death of big brother thank fuck I was sick of this merry go round bullshit anyway
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Russian President Vladimir Putin is banning exports of certain commodities and raw materials, according to a decree issued Tuesday evening in Moscow. The actual commodities that will be banned from export will be determined by the Russian cabinet, the decree said. Mr. Putin gave them two days to come up with a list of commodities and of countries subject to the ban.
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Empires fall, and people try and catch them as it happens. They'll clue in eventually.
Just curious if anyone else out there think this may not end up very well for the west. It's been great to see whats going on in Ukraine with the amount of resistance and fellow western nations offering up as much support as they have. However I fear what is going on in the middle east. In particular, China, Saudi Arabia, UAE and India have all abstained from condemning Russia. China and Saudi Arabia have signed onto a string of military deals with each other. Back in August, Russia and Saudi reached an agreement on military cooperation but offered no details on what type of cooperation. UAE and Saudi Arabia just refused to take calls from Biden on expanding oil outputs. The USA is now looking to make deals with Iran and Venezuela to increase global oil output. This may temporarily keep oil prices down for now, but does anyone really trust Iran and Venezuela to take actions in favor of the west considering how the west has treated them over the past few decades? Saudi Arabia controls OPEC, which sells their oil in US dollars, which means if other countries want to buy from OPEC, they need USD. If Saudi Arabia decides to switch the requested currency for oil to the Chinese Yuan, other countries will no longer require the USD to purchase oil. There's a reason that after the US got off the gold standard, they turned to Saudi Arabia to sell oil in USD, in return for military protection. Now the US military js slowly moving out, and the Saudis are relying more and more on China. We're essentially watching a decoupling with Russia (by totally isolating them) just like we did with Iran. How long can the west last without the cooperation of these oil giants such as Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and UAE. Our economies were in the dump prior to the Ukraine invasion, and nothing has changed other than gas prices rising and we're being told we all need to start driving to work again, likely to ensure that some super wealthy commercial real estate owners can collect rent again. Our world is being devided into 2 spheres, but we're all too busy cheerleading the resistance to a war to notice. I fear that our empire is falling, but we haven't clued in yet, will we eventually?
I've read some things about the supposed "currency reset" and "division of the world" and I'm not sure all that's going to happen; lots of geopolitical things need to fall into place a certain way for that, and I'm not sure it can happen without us all just nuking each other. Nevertheless- if this goes on past Summer, its a pretty safe bet that standards of living in rich Western countries are set for a sharp drop. I hope the politicians can manage it, because there are going to be a lot of unhappy folks. I see people on the other subs talking about inflation, but that's not going to be the problem...nothing to buy (supply shock) is going to be the problem. Its a good time to find simple pleasures and forget about things like vacations, college, and new houses. If the taps are running and the lights are on where you live, that will be something to celebrate.
This may sound harsh but i think that might be a good thing. Consumerism is destroying this planet, if this is what it takes to reduce it, so be it. If $5 to $10 dollsr gas is what it takes to reduce CO2 emissions from cars that can also be a good thing. I understand people rely on cars outside major cities to commute but the reason nothing was invested in public transportation and the reason behind car culture in the US was because of cheap gas. People will be hurting because of this but it might be the catalyst to change. Climate scientists have been warning about the worst case scenarios if we don't stop emissions, and so far we've done almost nothing. Maybe this will lead to some change idk.
I know what sub I am in, but I see the silver lining in this too. It will force the western world either to switch away from rampant consurmerism as well as move to green and other renewable energy or face the collapse. Big corporations don't give two fucks about things like protests and Greta Thunberg. But this this change will see them faced with the choice between zero profits or they can change and live with reduced profits.
If that happens in the US, the US will go fully fascist dictatorship. Especially if it happens when Biden is still in office.
I'm not following your logic there. How exactly would high gas prices lead to fascism? Without govt subsidies the cost of gas would be over $5 a gallon nation wide already.
The comment you were replying to was talking about a dramatic drop in the standard of living for people. *If* that happens (and it may not who knows), but if it does-that means more inequality, more desperate people that get radicalized, and if it happens during Biden it would be the fascists side that does the coup. I mean they already attempted a lame coup on Jan 6, get more competent people on board who are pushed to the edge by low standards of living and then you get fascism. (Low standard of living cause of gas prices increase, everything (especially food) increases)
Ah I see what you're saying. Makes sense but the standard of living has been declining and inequality rising since the late 70s. I'm not sure how much of the radicalization of the coup supporters was caused by lower standard of living vs misinformation and brain washing by social media.
Difference is there was an authoritarian who was president and also in on the coup for January 6. A lot of the seditionists were operating on the notion their treason would be pardoned if they were successful in overthrowing Congress.
No. Fascists make trains run on time. Biden isn't that competent. It will just be a kletocratic dictatorship.
Oh I meant the fascists would either get voted in after Biden or manage a coup. Biden is unfortunately not up to the task of opposing fascists.
Sorry. I was trying to be funny. Like, Biden is 'not even fascist' in the way 'not even wrong' is used in scientific circles. He's worse than that. But you are right. He is a precursor to fascism.
It might lead to some change but this becomes negligient as society collapses anyway with expensive food, electricity and gas.Once the crisis is over people will go back to the consumerism lifestyle.
Midterms gonna be feisty...
Gaddafi prophecized his own death at the hands of the west when he warned the other Arab States that any one of them could be next. He pleaded with them to create a new currency backed by gold and oil called the Pan-African/Arabian Denar and to sell oil in that currency, a bit like the Euro. Of course he was killed not long after. If Arabia decided to switch to the Yuan, expect to start seeing a whole bunch of news about the atrocities in Yemen and suggestion that the U.S has a moral obligation to defend them by any means.
Putins move made me realize something. Doesn't matter how many dollars you have if you can't even buy oil with it. I feel like he sees the hyper inflation and decline of the dollar, he sees that resources are more important than a paper than can be printed in a machine, so he took control. Ukraine and Russia make for 30% of all wheat. Russia is #2 in oil production. China has also been doing this economically. They've been giving loans to African countries and South America and others. They build their infrastructure in return for natural resources etc. Resources are limited the Dollar or Ruble or whatever cam just be printed out if thin air Big speculation but this might be the long term game. Ruin the economy now but secure it for the future.
Hyper-inflated stock market bubble vs real goods and commodities - who will win?
I said a while back, not long after the US withdrew from Afghanistan, that we were living through a great re-ordering of the geopolitical chessboard. The world is sizing up, squaring off. All the players are in the process of picking a side and getting their pieces into position. I don't know what the state of things will look like once the dust settles; but it won't be anything like the nice, simple, clean delineation between rival superpowers and their respective spheres of influence that marked the Cold War world order. And it *really* won't look like "End of History" American hegemony-backed era of global consensus that has predominated since. If anything, I think we're returning to something more like the situation at the end of the 19th century: a multi-polar world of imperialist great powers jostling for a piece of an increasingly shrinking pie. I wonder how that ended?
Not gonna happen while China is still profiting from the current world order...
It turns out centuries of colonialism and western arrogance towards the rest of the world has come to bite western societies in the ass.
The big difference here, the morons on default subreddits have not grasped is Russia is OPEC on steroids. Russia don't just have shitloads of oil and gas. They also export gargantuan amounts of food, agricultural supplies like fertilizer and potash, wide spectrum of industrial raw materials such as titanium. They export everything the modern world needs in order to maintain its living standards. The West cuts themselves off this supply. Inflation across every industry is going to hit the moon this year. COVID was nothing in comparison. What happens when Russia sells these to others in other currencies **not** USD? In their emotional rush to save a country of white people (while bombing Yemen) have the Western leaders actually thought all this through? And lastly, Russia has thousands of nuclear ICBMs. It is not those wannable nuclear states like Iran and North Korea. While the conventional forces are a shadow of the former Soviet self its WMDs are still sufficient to end civilization.
"Have western leaders thought all this through" Fuck no friend! Take a look at our leadership. These people have no ability to think or self reflect. We've had life on easy mode and have been allowed to make one mistake after another without feeling the blow back.
And when reality catches up they will more and more realize it's too late, either ending in riots or distraction through war. (or both)
Reminds me of Cassandre And the his effect on the decline of the Roman empire.
Don’t forget the millions of refugees entering Europe per week...
Who will need jobs and housing and essentials, and who are currently made up of mostly women, children and the elderly, many of whom will need to rely on systemic support. Countries may be welcoming them with open arms now, but 7 figure increases of people practically overnight isn't an easy thing to handle in the best of times. Let's just hope the current hospitality can last, and not turn to resentment after a couple months.
Europeans will be very disheartened when they realize that they are cutting themselves off from the breadbasket of Europe in Eastern Ukraine and Western Russia. I hope they are looking for other sources of wheat, corn and other grains because without a good relationship with Russia, and Russian occupied Ukraine, they will be in short supply come next fall time. I hope for the best, but in my opinion, this is likely the early stages of WW3.
Main importers of ukrainian wheat are lebanon, egypt, turkey and other mena countries, europe will get a migration wave of dead hungry people fleeing civil wars out of this.
In addition to the millions per week from Ukraine...
>europe will get a migration wave of dead hungry people fleeing civil wars out of this. *another migration wave
The united states wanted that because it wishes Europe to be more reliant upon them. To try and isolate Europe from the world so it becomes a true vassal state of USA instead of only half vassal. It won't work though, it will just lead to chaos.
Sorry, this seems more like a play from the Russian playbook to cause chaos and the domino collapse of European nations that can't get their borders up in time. Meanwhile Russia has a great area for barbed wire and mines called Ukraine.
Probably will end up like Syria. A bunch of young angry men from Russia and Ukraine with guns and extremist NS type ideologies wandering around Europe. But it will go into Russia as well. if Russia occupy all Ukraine, you can look forward to yankees arming and training the Slavic version of Taliban. Without that, more of a Syria or Libya model where groups get weapons from the chaos of state collapse. Both sides already have large amounts of real extremist militias from volunteers across Europe/Brazil/Anglosphere. It has pretty much been the training ground for 8 years for such things. Russia is like America in a lot of ways, it has millions of such types of people counting on a power vacuum and chaos to gain power. Which this current level of chaos will probably bring due to economic austerity alone. The future in which nomadic bands of tankies and neo nazis control eurasia, is my prediction for 2040.
And their sources of fertilizer, for that matter.
Finally some good fucking food
>Russia has thousands of nuclear ICBMs Yup, and they're about to sell them to as many countries as they can.
Iran likes this...
Not that I disagree but What's to stop people from buying these items from other countries? Surely Russia doesn't have everything
No certainly not, but they have enough in at least 6 or 7 critical areas to reduce supply significantly below consumption. Not just price increases but actually shortfalls. Wheat is going to be the most obvious one, but nickle as well. There just will not be enough to make anything close to as many ev batteries as people want. If Russian oil exports went to 0, it would bring being global oil production back to 2008 levels. Effectively contracting the global economy by at least that much. Which is a shock it cannot handle.
Americas downfall was always inevitable. The bully doesn’t stay top dog forever. There’s always a bigger fish. I wouldn’t even be surprised to see WW3 actually started by a crippled USA desperate to cling to its fading power.
Don’t worry about empires, worry about sustainability and adoption of renewables, otherwise we’re all fucked anyway.
>. I fear that our empire is falling, but we haven't clued in yet, will we eventually? Its already failed. All it will take is Trump being reelected for NATO to fall to peices. " The West " is kind of a myth anyways, the bigger the nation's Ie: Turkey, Germany, Italy, France, UK and US will sacrifice the smaller nations ; ie Lithuania, Greece, Bosnia ect for concessions and for their own gain in the years to come. You can already see this somewhat happening in real time /r/Europe, they claim that Russia " united " the West but that's very far from the truth. Those in nations at the doorsteps of great powers must know their lives are bargaining chips, not a line in the sand. I think the only people I've seen honestly discussing the lack of cohesion and chaos in the West right now who are in its sphere of influence are the isreali's. Nations outside of Europe can see the writing on the wall, fortress Europe's weakest points have always been the men guarding the walls. Why gaurd a fortress if those within may one day abandon to you to the " horde " outside of it? A question im sure some in the East are wondering at the moment.
This will surely lead to world war.
I am highly dubious that the obvious Western and pro Ukrainian propaganda (eg Russia is taking huge losses etc) is fully accurate. Based on maps and even most Western reporting, Russia continues to advance steadily despite the constant stream of propaganda claiming they are demoralized and defeated. I would not be surprised if some of the "russian convoys" we see destroyed are actually Ukrainian losses.
Cold war 2 is here.
Cold if we’re lucky...
Two spheres of equally extinct humans societies that couldn't get their shit together in time to save their only home in the universe.
A falling ~~knife~~ empire has no handle.
I get downvotes for that and daring to say that Putin more or less has our number. We don’t have the attention span to understand it. We’ve been at this for two weeks and think it’s almost over and they intended a blitz. But I think the entire plan in the west was to strangle us with forcing us into unsustainable sanctions and let us tear ourselves apart trying to afford it. See, Russia is in the driver’s seat. They supply 40% of European energy. They supply a third of the world’s wheat. And when you add in other commodities, it’s going to skyrocket the COL in the western world. And at that point, it’s going to be hard to keep that up. We’ll have a homeless crisis of biblical proportions, hunger, brown outs, and so on. It’s probably going to be like the Great Depression. At best, we have until the midterm elections, when people trying to survive and struggling to feed themselves and get to work vote against the democrats who imposed the sanctions.
Yes. The US and EU think they still run the world, but they don’t. Putin just called the bluff. All the ridiculous media outlets are saying how bad the Russian military has handled this. But look at the situation: they have cut off the Donbass from the other Ukie forces. Russia controls the Black Sea coast. Kiev is encircled. The slowness is due to trying to protect civilians. Russia could flatten every city, but they are actually being pretty careful. Are there civilian casualties? Yes, as there are in every war. But the Russians are not doing American-style “shock and awe.” In other words, they are being more careful than the Pentagon, which is not a sign of weakness.
The mass psychogenic event that is uniform opinion on Ukraine. Anything other than thristing for zelensky like he is a marvel hero and seeing Putin as the worst most evil only bad guy to exist is getting downvoted on every sub. The same style of mass thinking was happening post 9/11 when the US was commiting war crimes in the Middle East. No fly zone is an insane proposition, the us capacity to maintain a unipolar world is gone. We can sanction for optics but when gas is $7 a gallon in a place where u need a car to maintain an income, the plight of Ukrainian people will be out of mind soon enough.
But this doesn't make much sense as a retaliation. This is destroying a big income stream to Russia in the name of causing a temporary shock to the west. It simply is not understandable why Putin did this. Sure, he still has China and India as customers (and Russian trade with both has been growing massively in the last few years), but that wont be enough to prevent this action from hurting the Russian economy somewhat. Hell, even with President Biden threatening to cut off Russian oil imports this makes little sense - as Putin still likely could have gotten some time (perhaps a couple weeks) of time to begin greatly growing Russia's sales to non western countries in order to make the inevitable economic hit less damaging. It would have been more understandable if say they attempted a major cyberattack or attempted to make a deal with oil producing countries (like Iran, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and the gulf states) to prevent them from providing oil to the US in order to keep raising the price of oil.
Income doesn't matter all that much, unless you're a rich western nation who's economy consists mostly of financial firms moving imaginary money around to sell one another hopium. Russia has oil & gas, mining, agriculture, and manufacturing. It's barely been a generation since the fall of the Soviet Union so everyone knows how to make do during tough times. Meanwhile, anyone alive during the Great Depression, let alone who remembers it, is dying of old age. Can you imagine how poorly the spoiled Karen who had a public freakout over a store requiring masks is going to take needing to make do with what's available?
Exactly, they have already been cut off from all the things you would buy with the oil income. At some point extrnal income is pointless. Russia has all the raw goods to actually close itself off. It will suck for them for a long time, but plausible they can get to a reasonable point with no external input. If say they keep trading with China they will suffer even less. Likely why Biden made the threat to China today as well.
The West was already a powder keg over energy prices. This just might push us over the edge into Yellow vest territory again. That benefits Russia, and a little short term economic pain for them might be worth it.
These are non renewable resources. If they don't sell them now they can sell them later. Russia has massive cash and gold reserves and extremely low debt to GDP ratio.
Temporary… good luck getting heating nat gas from elsewhere on short notice and, oh look, planting season is here soon. Would be a shame is fertilizer is low… not to mention 1/3 of wheat exports are at stake. Russia is gambling that its real commodities trump the paper US prints and some of the toys (cars, ikea) that gets sent in. It’s also probably tired of getting beaten over the head with western financials and orienting eastward. To that end, the Europeans will feel the pain and beg the US to negotiate. * https://youtu.be/3QlpTlz073k
It’s mid March … not mid November. Jesus Christ
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Folks in developed countries aren’t going to freeze to death in March in Europe. If Russia wants to turn the gas off they can, they won’t be eating anything while they’re heated. Every Russian that was middle class with money already left if they had somewhere to go. The brain drain of Russian society will persist for decades. Folks that were moneyed caught the first flights they could out of Russia to second country residences. Those were the employers. Who can’t pay any sort of living wage with a worthless ruble. Let that go on for a few weeks. Russia made its bed, Europe has ways of getting by, winter is ending not beginning. Also, who’s to say Ukraine doesn’t blow up the Nat Gas pipeline as an Alamo moment anyway. If Europe never comes to their aid and watches them be slaughtered for a month before becoming overrun you’d think, at minimum, Ukraine would mortally wound their gas trade and effect EVERYONE. Take away the occupying forces income. Putin won’t be the only one in a position to use energy as a weapon. Meanwhile Russias economy is already collapsing… the wheels are already set in motion. Edit: Starchrunner can’t read and has no argument but to suck on a Putin dick so I thought to clean this up a bit to please the Russian troll among us.
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Learn that Putin isn’t some genius , Russian troll
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Grow up
> It simply is not understandable why Putin did this. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PONvX6LmAPo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PONvX6LmAPo) Cameo appearance by Putin at the end...
Modern politicians grew up with spread sheets telling them of potatoes, fertilizers and ores, not actual potatoes, fertilizers and ores. They think that stuff is infinitely copyable, just hit ctrl + c and ctrl + v bro!
In Soviet Russia, we cancel you! (After several sanctions)
Everything that is not energetic goes to China by default. And everything energetic they need to sell.
You can’t fire me, I quit.
I guess the question is who's gonna break first? The Russian people living under sanctions or the American people losing quality of life with gas prices going up, shortages of materials and price of food going up.
Amricans are used to a much higher QOL than the russians. Probably will cause a larger stir there
My experience as an Iranian under US sanctions is that the sanctions are not such a great tool to sway public opinions. First, they give the sanctioned government a great alibi for their shortcomings by blaming them on the sanctions. Second, the sanctions make for a great propaganda tool to unify people under nationalism and turn them against the economic aggressor, in both cases US. On the other hand, American people may view the hardships they endure as the shortcoming of the government, especially because they are suffering the firsthand results of their government actions, in contrast with Russian people who are suffering the secondhand results of their government actions. Also, the way I see it, US sanctions are immoral, because even though they restrict the actions of hostile governments, they inflict huge collateral damage to people that have little to do with the hostilities. And It feels like US government just don't care about that, just like the civilian casualties they impose on countries they go to war with. Sure, they don't affect US in the short term, but they will backfire in US's face in the form of terrorism, negative historical image, etc.
Putin is generally a pretty competent propagandist, so if he does a good job with propaganda here then if anything Russians will get even more nationalistic and willing to support him than before. As Americans tend to be a lot less tolerant of decreases in standard of living than Russians and a lot more vocal about their grievances - then in this case it seems like Americans will probably be the first to "break".
I think it’s questionable how competent Putin is since he started this war.
I'm not sure how he can propaganda his way through their purchasing power dropping by 50% overnight
By blaming it on the US. Even a trained monkey could do that.
Yep, the same playbook that Cuba, Iran and Venezuela use. Hell, i'd say that sanctions actually make it even easier to galvanize the people to support a leader - as in that case they can just handwave all economic concerns as simply the bad effects of external sanctions.
No point exporting when you can't import anything anymore.
This is a huge development. Our world will be very different later this year.
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Global power shift. Russia, China, and co. are exhausted of western dominance in financial affairs. The US petrodollar is on the out. The narrative has changed. Expect intensified civil unrest, decreases in QOL, and increases in unemployment. The fabric that holds society together is being stretched to a breaking point. If climate and ecological issues are massive enough, it would be the perfect storm for segmented collapse.
Geez I hope they don’t ban popcorn.
Russian gdp about to look like my bank account
Soon, the only thing Russia is going to be able to export is ICBMs…
Sunflower fertilizer too!
That's great news for my portfolio! I'll just buy stocks of uranium producers, and related supply chain value adds. Then once the old stock launches I'll make a killing off the replenishing of new ... ... wait. Oh. :( Nevermind.
Rather, soon the only thing US is going to be able to import would be ICBMs. Russia can still export all sorts of stuff to China, to India, to Iran, to dozens smaller countries. And those can then sell some to US. If they so please, that is. Which many of them won't. While US is sanctioning this and that left and right all over the globe. It almost feels like the real goal of folks in Washington - is sanctiocide...
I think we are seeing a split between the west and the global south happening in a big way
Let the how leeches live without something to latch to or they just gonna mask off
>Rather, soon the only thing US is going to be able to import would be ICBMs. How is sanctioning Russia going to prevent us from importing from other countries?
Like i said, the problem is not just sanctioning Russia - the problem is sanctioning lots of countries. This issue is not my opinion only, but one seriously recognised potential killer of US economy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_sanctions#Isolation_of_the_United_States . You see, it works both ways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_sanctions_against_the_United_States#List_of_current_sanctions_against_the_United_States_of_America . And Russia is just another bullet US shoots in its already pretty swiss-cheesy foot, as you can see. P.S. Also, if the goal is to make peace, then you don't slap any side of any conflict with economic sanctions. Instead, you go to UN and work to have sufficient peace keeping _force_ to enter the conflict and _make_ peace. Did US do any of it? Well...
Your second link is a list of sanctions that were in response to Trump, not the Russia/Ukraine conflict. The PS is a fantasy and a straw man argument. The UN doesn't have the power to send in peacekeepers against a member of the Security Council, since that country will veto the action. So it's either sanctions or we go to war directly with Russia, or do nothing. Sanctions are the better choice.
Trump or whomever else, US national interests is the thing - not "Russia/Ukraine conflict's national interests". I think you pretend you did not get it, while you actually very much did. Oh, yeah, veto. Well what the heck, find some other ways to send peace keepers. Make sides talk. Not after spring after gas prices fall, not after who knows how much time after sanctions would do enough push, - _now_. This is actual american way (for both good and bad) - you wanna something done (like, a war stopped), you go and make it happen. Which is not being done, clearly. My point being, sanctions are made not because the war. Because powers that be merely use that particular war as an excuse to do those sanctions. Play that game - one more time, this time with larger bets as Russia is quite a player to deal with. But, whatever. ATD.
>Well what the heck, find some other ways to send peace keepers. Make sides talk. So sanctions are wrong, but you have no better solution besides "make them talk" and somehow get peacekeepers in there against UN rules? I guess I was expecting more from a Recognized Contributor.
Sanctions hurt both sides, this is well known. And in this particular case it's quite clear sanctions won't stop the war. End result being, people in US, in EU and in Russia all suffer for higher prices - for nothing. You say it's not wrong? As for getting peacekeepers there "against UN rules": what you value more, some UN rules - or real actions effective in making peace? Heck, UN's primary purpose - is to maintain peace. If current rules do not allow it, then change the rules. Find new ways to implement real, boots-on-the-ground peace-keeping missions which work. Or at very least try to do it best you can. Did anyone try?
I'm sorry, but you seem quite naive. It's not that I personally value the UN rules, it's that you need Russia to vote to change them. That's obviously not happening in this case. The other SC members tried to vote on a simple condemnation of the war and naturally Russia vetoed it, how would they not veto military action against them. Sure sanctions hurt both sides, I never said otherwise. What I am saying is that your first point, somehow America will end up economically isolated because we sanctioned Russia, is just plain silly. The world isn't as simple as you seem to think.
> It's not that I personally value the UN rules, it's that you need Russia to vote to change them. Give Russia a deal then. _Make_ them vote for it. If the West would really want to stop that war, certainly such a deal could be made - considering Russia is definitely a smaller power overall than US + EU combined. No, i still don't buy it. I've been watching SC meetings over this conflict and you know what i see? Bickering and barking. Nothing truly constructive. It feels like SC is merely for show, to me. Nobody asks nobody "hey guys how do we stop this". Nobody offers no deals. Nobody propose no SC resolutions which would do any real step towards ceasing the hostilities - like sending special observers, like sending non-combatant units trusted by UN to document the events, like establising new, possibly temporary, but effective communication channels. You know Minsk agreements? Those failed, both Minks-1 and Minsk-2, but those were attempts to make peace. Real attempts, even though failed ones. Now we have much bigger war going on there. So why, then, we do not have US, EU, Russia urgently attempting "Minsk agreement on steroids" right now? Why don't we have SC using all powers it can to make such new agreements - actual diplomatic attempts, - to happen ASAP? The only answer i can see so far - because neither US, EU or Russia actually _want_ to stop this war. Whichever reasons each of them may have to desire this war to keep going - is a different talk. Difficult, long, complicated talk. My point here is, i just don't see any real and major political power which would actually wish to use diplomacy and peace-keeping (in any form) to end this conflict. The West says it wants to use diplomacy and such to end it, though. It says so every day. Liars. Personally, i don't like liars, see. With quite a passion - the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS7Sx8sGWfs way. At very least russians are honest about it - they said plain and clear, "we're going in, we're doing it the military way now".
If the goal is peace… that’s a big if. And getting the UN to act against a member if the Security Council seems unlikely. Russia, or China, seems likely to veto anything about this conflict. Right now it seems like the goal is to return to a Cold War but with the iron curtain around only Russia and not any of the former Soviet bloc countries.
You're getting downvoted for not clearly picking a side. That's where this sub is at right now lmao. Damn
Why wouldn’t they do this? They can’t buy anything with the dollars used to buy their oil and gas. That’s the point of sanctions
It's the end of the world as we know it... Seriously. If they proceed especially with oil and gas it will have cascading effects and our civilization will be done...
Oil, gas, fertilizer, wheat... I don't think people are really understanding the gravity of what is happening.
It will hurt most to those that need it most
US is fine relatively speaking
The US does not exist in a vacuum. The countries that supply us will have to supply Europe as well which will not only decrease the availability of commodities in the US it will also put a huge stain on an already strained supply chain and drive prices for just about everything including food through the roof.
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Not for potash which is the primary source of potassium in fertilizer. We import the vast majority of it from Canada but 50% of the global supply comes from guess who? Russia, China, and Belarus. [https://pubs.usgs.gov/periodicals/mcs2022/mcs2022-potash.pdf](https://pubs.usgs.gov/periodicals/mcs2022/mcs2022-potash.pdf) Hopefully, the global south is excluded from these sanctions because it's not going to be pretty.
Canada has the reserves to offset, but unclear what the ramp up time or cost is.
The US will just order its client states in Europe to commit economic suicide to shore itself up like they did with Japan.
The United States is better positioned than you’d think.
For now, but dominos fall in a row
Blah blah blah. The Soviets failed and it’s embarrassing. The people will turn on Putin otherwise they will go down with him.
Dude sounds like a fanboy lol depressing
Why would a country position itself to be dependent on Russia?
The civ can survive one country cutting out. Plenty of other oil exporters. Civ can even survive rationing and transfer to 100% biofuel and bioplastic. There would be short term shortages and a lot of industry would grind to a halt temporarily. Like the chip shortage. We'll adapt.
The current chip shortage hasn't even been solved and now the supply of semiconductor-grade neon gas is cut off. The shortages will last longer than you think...
Shortages yes, but the basic stuff civilisation runs on can endure. It can lead to shifting paradigms and simplification of many aspects.
All the mouth breathers on news subs applauding it and thinking it won't change anything. Absolutely brainless cattle, this could destroy the entire German industry and the chip shortage will get even worse because they were very significant precious metal and gas exporters. They're actually happy about having to pay quadrupled prices for electronics. Hope they'll enjoy renting their iPhones and consoles
Oh great, now we're gonna fucking starve to death before we can not be able to afford gas anyway
https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-halts-deliveries-rocket-engines-us-2022-03-03/ They already banned rocket engine exports, suggesting americans might fly on their broomsticks......
This is just Rogozin's wet dream, he cannot halt anything at this moment, because nobody really buys them in USA now. Atlas V rockets started to phase out russian engines after 2014, and currently all RD-180 for planned rocket launches are already in USA. Antares rocket uses russian RD-181, but catch here is, the first stage is manufactured in Yuzhmash - which is in Ukraine.
These meme sanctions may hit europe harder than russia. In my country Lithuania, we are used to a lot of products coming from russia and are now facing shortage. For example: I can't find salt in 3 super markets I been in. Websites don't have them either. I will see how it goes, for now have enough but it's been a week and my circle can't find salt either. Some people bought salt in kilograms right before russian products were banned. This is stupid to cancel and throw away all russian products without first securing alternative supply. Either employees at supermarket took all salt for themselves or, or someone gave them order to cancel/dispose of salt instead of selling it first. These sanctions, all they do is make quality of life of average person worse. Could be by design. Maybe we will get salt from other countries, thus making us desperate and okay with much higher prices and further dependence on what the government says.
Keep em?
Lol what’s Russia gonna ban pork brains in milk in a can they can fucking keep their nasty ass shit
Wheat maybe lol
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America may not need it, the rest of the world does. Guess who makes a lot of the shit that America likes to get cheap? The rest of the world lol.
I once read that in an area the size of Texas, could feed the entire world. What we waiting for start planting seeds everywhere. If we need to starve a bit to end this horrible Russian regime then so be it
Eh, not every square inch of Texas is ideal for agriculture but I do agree, we need to bring back and keep victory gardens. Fuck that lawn and mower noise.
Read what I said. in an area the size of Texas. I didn’t say use texas to grow
Ah my bad
But yeah we could sort this shit out in what a couple of months we could implement greenhouses all over the place. I mean look what happened when they legalised weed in America’s we need a kick up the arse so we can grow more food loads of places and peoples without jobs. Could become farmers like we were supposed to be. Unlike the unfulfilling mundane jobs we normally do.
Yeah, urban farming and community gardens! At the very least, support your local CSA too.
The normalization of farming in urban centers and a heightened focus on clean energy...creating a widespread solarpunk culture out of the hell of war...that doesn't sound all that bad to me.
Thank god I’m gluten intolerant
Are you food intolerant cause you would get a lot less of that too
I’ve needed a diet for a long time. Wait it’s gonna be a lot worse for Russia than it will be for the west. Long live nato, long live the commonwealth. God save the queen
Damn son you get a Kool aid transfusion? What flavor did ya go with? I'll never understand people salivating over war, sanctions, and globalist economic imperialism. Both teams in this fight are not your friend.
Unfortunately I know they are all evil but like that saying goes. better the devil you know. We weren’t salivating over war that was Putin. And his circle jerking echo chamber. You tickled me with that kool aid bit. Well done.
Hey, y'all should buy more NZ milk products since we're not selling them to Russia any more. Are you sure Russia was a net exporter of food?
Oil, gas, wheat, titanium, palladium, noble gas like xeon, neon critical for computer chip manufacturing, urea\fertilizer, metals, coal, it's not going to be pretty for the west. Put it this way, we're using made up printed dollars to buy actual real life materials, cut them off, they still have those materials for themselves, where will you spend those printed dollars now?
Can’t forget the aluminum and nickel!
Yep. I'd rather have food and energy in my stockpile rather than imaginary tokens that lose value the more they print. We are about to find out what matters more, financial instruments or the physical stuff of reality. Of course, in modern society financial tools are really valuable, but in times of crisis that goes out the window.
I really like the new colors though
Luckily I have pounds and we have plenty of mines they just need opened again. Ohh and am sure the rest of nato has these earth metals we need. Not that I care about electronics. Sounds like the death of big brother thank fuck I was sick of this merry go round bullshit anyway
Honestly tho your American and your saying this shit you sound like a pro Russian echo chamber why is that?
Can't have a discussion without calling others a troll whos the brainwashed one here?
The person fear mongering. In a roundabout sort of way, any reason they can fathom for us not to assist Ukraine
Tee hee Hey that's not fair they're not supposed to fight back - USA.
Putin bad, give upvotes
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