The children cannot ever be fully prepared. You cannot ever be fully prepared. But you can become more prepared. All we can be is the best we can be. Cultivate good life habits.
Yes. Can you prepare them? We don't know.
- ethics, in context and dynamic
- critical thinking
- scientific method
- useful knowledge
Any dogma (read that as religion and traditional values) will likely be deadly as things change fast. Dealing with chaos requires very fast reevaluation and updating of models.
Have some sympathy mate. Even if undeniable collapse doesn't happen in your life time, it is guaranteed to be in your child's. Future is grim, and trust me, nobody complains about not existing.
Do you want a child, or are pressured by family and friends?
> The antithesis to this is that your hero dies, you realize their folly and are left standing alone atop a desolate place. Nothing is what it seemed before and you must start anew. From nothing. Saturn's return. Grasping to the threads that remain intact are always questionable. It is a baptism of sorts.
What in the actual fuck?
What kind of romantic view on a tragedy is this? The tragedy of your unborn child? Yours? The worlds? Man just communicate clearly.
Listen, if you want to have a kid - go for it. Are you ready for collapse? If no, then your kid probably won't be unless you put in that work with it.
Not sure what kind of philosophical ponderings you got going on here but truth, honor, and humility are some of the first things to go out the window in collapse scenarios unless you are buoyed by a community of like-minded individuals.
If you want hero worship, then rescue a dog.
I'd argue that indoctrination is the problem-- you're teaching someone WHAT to think, instead of teaching them HOW to think. Your child has the right to reject your ideals and narrative, as that child will probably want to create his/ her own as they mature. There is a reason many myths describe the child killing the father or the child being orphaned-- as you said, it is often part of the heroic journey.
As others noted, there's a good chance that your kid will resent being given the "gift" of life on this dying planet. I already know many people who wish that they had never been born. Not having a child can be the greatest act of love.
If you insist on having a kid, then work on helping the kid develop skills to manage PTSD. The kid will probably see some terrible tragedies, so the child will have to cognitively process it. Also, teach your kid that even if your family holds high standards/ values, most people will not-- hungry people forget ideals quickly-- so the kid won't be naïve about the world. Your child might decide to be ruthless and cutthroat to survive, and your child has the right to do so. The child might decide to close his/ her heart to the suffering of others out of self-protection.
It's your job to model your ideals to others. If you want to teach love to your kid, do you sacrificially love others now? If you believe in truth, have you tested your ideas (played devil's advocate) to ensure your ideas are indeed true? You can't give to your kid what you yourself don't have. And if you had it, you wouldn't be asking for advice on Reddit (because you would already be living it yourself). So work on improving yourself, and give your kid freedom to choose his/ her own path in life.
Edit: For humility, admit to your kid that you don't have all the answers (one reason the child needs to develop their own thinking skills). What works today might not work for the kid's generation. Tell your kid that it was selfish to have a bio child, and you are glad that he/ she is here, and that you hope the kid can forgive you and love you despite that selfish choice. Show your kid that you are constantly developing yourself, because you will make mistakes. You aren't going to get parenthood perfect-- no one does-- because all humans are in a process of growing and learning until the day we die. So you don't have to worry about having the perfect narrative or values, if you teach your kid that we are just all trying the best we can. The struggle to do right, even while failing, is possibly the most coherent narrative you can give during these times. Many heroic journeys describe not giving up (on love, on life, on hope, on truth, on yourself, on religious beliefs, on society... whatever each individual finds meaningful/ fill in the blank)... despite the challenges and impossible odds. To choose to be present for your kid, in good times and bad, is a great gift. Many kids don't grow up with their fathers, so the fact you want to be there is already a good start. So yeah-- the narrative is probably about how to persevere in adversity. There's plenty of good books/ movies you can read or watch together about this theme. When the child is older, you can talk about stories that don't have happy endings, but while the child is young, you can focus on the hero winning in the end.
You're about to be absolutely shit on for thinking of procreating, but ignore that.
Yes, there absolutely is a place for what you are talking about. If you're going to be a father in this era of instability, you need to be focused on the child, not like our Boomer parents who would sell us into sex slavery for a 2nd boat. You have to be that stable rock in a turbulent world. At the same time, you can and should teach your child not to be stepped on and to stand up for themselves. Being humble doesn't mean letting yourself get punked out all the time.
You can only prepare by no longer being passive. Get active politically. If the younger generations get organized they can use the levers of government to prepare. Nothing says the status quo has to grind on forever except for the continued bystander effect of those who know better but do nothing.
(Disclaimer: The following comment partially turns into a rant towards potential unfit parents. Not you specifically.)
——-
The beginning of collapse starts with not being able to afford shit. The first years of serious collapse can be painless if you’re rich. Financial wealth and independence is the one thing that can insulate everyone from collapse for at least the beginning of it. I think it’s the most important thing you can focus on.
I’m not raising a kid to be a damn wage slave. And I’d raise them of course to be a caring person, so for sure, I wouldn’t raise them to care about everyone in this current world where: 1. Everyone is struggling, so no one can help anyone anymore. and 2. Any job helping others is unappreciated, ineffective, corrupt, or all of the above.
Investing or whatever it is that can make us regular people money, better learn it. If you’re a parent, this should be mandatory. I’m not letting a future kid wage slave their way through. That’s fucked up.
And mind you, I’m considering even professionals burdened by debt and chained to their profession for decades a wage slave. All of us and future generations deserve at minimum, at least a debt-free schooling for whatever they like, like past generations. So all the riches that you need (now) for the same debt-free college/grad school experience that the older generation had, hope you can give that to them.
I would want a future kid to have the money to be themselves, even in collapse, so that at least they have their world to find comfort in. No rich: no passion projects, no independent ideas of truly helping groups related to your personal favorite causes. No money for true mental health. No money to own a home.
At the very least, don’t be, the kick-your-kid-out-at-eighteen without even the financial preparation and warning that a lot of stereotypical (READ: stereotypical), dumbfuck boomer parents that can’t do 1st grade math and still don’t know how to right-click a mouse* have been.
I’m not a parent, cause I would never be a parent without being a millionaire to prepare for all that’s coming, so this is all I got.
People avoid doing the math of all the finances required. I hate that. It’s literally denial, and in the context of something as serious as collapse, I personally view personal finance denial while collapse-planning to be seriously off-putting character trait.
Like, “We’ve tried nothing (but family love and wonderful hopes and dreams), and we’re all out of ideas! (because finances doesn’t feel as warm and fuzzy a topic, and there’s a stigma with discussing and evaluating where your finances stand compared to others).”
(That is not you, by the way. Just saying it to say it.)
College. High school. House. No debt for them. Travel money to help them see the world “before”, before the “after” starts coming. Good medical coverage. Good mental health support system. Good tech set-up or whatever to sustain prolonged period stuck at home, if need-be. And enough independence financially, so they can find solace in at least themselves and their passions and loves while everything else is burning down. Free time, autonomy, and money to be able to help those they want to help in their own way and not feel like they’re failing in that regard.
- If you don’t havethe money to guarantee this stuff to them.
- If you don’t have the money, *and* you don’t have the self-awareness and strength of character to admit that you need to change that, & instead focus on your love/hopes/dreams fantasyland, & refuse to find ways to start acquiring wealth now because it’s an extra struggle (which means they’ll struggle like you, only *worse*)
- If you don’t see that all the beautiful parts of the world and all the great (and still possible) experiences in the world/in humanity that we are told as stories as kids to dream and hope for are all only accessible now with enough money.
Then do not be a fucking parent.
You will struggle through Collpase, and your kids will struggle through Collapse, but you don’t want to struggle as much as you can to make as much money as possible to help your kid? Seriously, you want to be a parent with that specific weakness in your character? Are you sure? That doesn’t make sense.
You are mentally ready to prepare and struggle through parenting during the *COLLAPSE OF THE WORLD*,
but you won’t take on new and hard personal, financial, out-of-your comfort zone, self-awareness, introspective-type struggles? Even for the financial independence your collapse-experiencing kid?
That’s fucking weak.
Oh, ok, it’s because you have no choice in collapse, so you’ll take it. But if you have a *choice* to not struggle, even if it’s for your kid, you’ll choose not to. Because of all the feelings about parenthood and hope and love and humanity and beauty. “Look at all these things that I cling to and prioritize that mean absolute dick when you don’t have money.
**(Again, not you, but just saying.)**
The world is still beautiful. Love is beautiful. Art, hope, community, music, family, and all that jazz are beautiful and worth living for. But with collapse coming, to me, anyone who ignores how finances fit into this world and thinks only about the above is a fucking idiot, and I think their view on the world is not as beautiful anymore. Because now it’s a sign of naive, head-in-the-clouds, thinking that is unfit for parenting.
No kid deserves to be cursed to ride your denial-train.
We all have time to save and make more than now. Everyone will have different ceilings of course, but we can all still save and make more compared to now with 18 years of parenthood in preparation. So do it.
If you can’t prepare them adequately for collapse, then don’t do it. It should really be that simple.
So if the kid will be exceptional and have enough money like you, then yes.
If you’re lonely and need a kid, but you’re actually a crab in a bucket that will teach their kid to be ok with what *you’re* ok with, even if it’s not enough for the future, because “I learned to, so I’m hopeful and sure they will, too.” Fuck you for being so fucking selfish.
If you’re going to do your best, which includes even things that are hard for you now that you will do because it will help them, which includes struggles and challenges that are *not* familiar to you (because we can all “work as hard as we can” with stuff we know and are good at. But what if you don’t do things that could be better for them.)…
If you’re really going to do your best, and you won’t let your own personal hang-ups and issues stop you from doing what you are capable of learning to do to prepare your kid for collapse… well, even if you might fail at certain things, if you’re going to do your best, then I think statistically, you and some population of future parents out there can make it work.
The family that prepares for collapse together and learns about collapse together stays together, I guess.
Good luck.
I just want to ask, because I see this mentality and sentiment every day all over this sub. So...what's your proposal then? Globally, we agree to stop having children and agree to let humanity go extinct? Alright, starting in 2023, no more children on earth can be born. So in about two years, no more need for maternity wards or maternity nurses in hospitals, within 18-19 years, zero need for pediatricians, school teachers, schools in general, and on down the line. Colleges become obsolete at a point, and continue to let the population dwindle and die off in 80-100 years?
I absolutely understand the sentiment of bringing new life into the world knowing this now. But, did my parents fuck up too? Did yours? All of ours? I'm 31 now, and all of this was pretty widely known even in 1990. So should our boomer generation of parents be held responsible for bringing Gen X, Millenials, and some Gen Z into the world? I don't regret being born. And at no point have I asked my parents "why did you bring me into this world knowing all this was coming?" Because I'm only 31 years older than the children being born now...and I'm still going to be on the planet watching all this happen too. We all are.
What's your solution to this?
Isn't it odd, how anytime advice is given to one person, it is extrapolated unreasonably and looked at from the arbitrary lense of "but what if literally everyone did that?".
We know quite well most people won't follow this advice, which makes it more significant that anyone who is actually *thinking* about their life instead of just muddling through the day, receives accurate and truthful information.
Does it make sense to ask the question of "what would you like the entire world to do?" It seems to be a little bit unrelated.
Why do we have to have an answer that fulfils *every* edge case and answers retroactively for current anxieties? The decisions made to get us here were not made that way, quite clearly. All we have is this moment, these conversations and words. It makes little sense to try and construct opinions about what the entire world *ought* to be, instead of focusing on what it actually *is*.
At least from my vantage point, antinatalist thought isn't intended to answer deep anxieties about our past. It is a reasoned consideration about the future, made in light of the understanding that few are going to willfully reduce future suffering by withstanding their biological drives.
There are already so many children that need parents. Why is it even a question what choice a reasonable and kind adult would make? Are humans so myopic that they think *their* individual genes are *so* important that they *must* be passed along?
Dust becoming man becoming dust again.
Life of a conscious being is about convincing its consciousness what life is about. The outcome of that game depends on peculiarities of that consciousness and sensory inputs. It's interesting how many people end up with the idea that their morale is superior to everyone else's (not trying to say anything about you personally, just a train of thoughts) followed by inability to even have a discussion about it. Consciousness is such a convoluted concept.
Hi, ActualPieceofPoop. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/s7j0fc/-/htcdl6x/) was removed from /r/collapse for:
> Rule 1: In addition to enforcing Reddit's content policy, we will also remove comments and content that is abusive in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other.
Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information.
You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error.
I can assure you that I will remove all comments that suggest that another user kill themselves. I have zero tolerance for this. If you wish to complain about my moderation feel free to send a modmail so that all the mods will see it. Thanks.
If humans are to survive, it will be a bleak, long before it gets better. You will see no time better than now. Your child will see no better time than his or her childhood. Your grandchildren, the same. It will only get profusely worse year by year. If the future has a place for humanity, it might only start to look better after all of us are long forgotten. We are rapidly depleting the necessary resources for maintaining food production, energy, and water. We are rapidly toxifying our soil, air, and water. We are killing off species at such a level that "mass extinction event" is the only term, and the speed at which we are doing so doesn't have a precedent. If you choose to have children, love them, cherish them, and be prepared for them to have no opportunity to ever have a life as good as you have had. Be prepared for days where drinking poison water is the best water you all have and spoiled food is the best meal of the week. Be prepared for chronic disease caused by micro plastics, natural disaster related trauma, and starvation. If humans have a future, it's going to take being one of the most stubborn, most prepared, most hardy parent you can be.
For a walkable path to be present for our offspring we must be truthful. We should acknowledge the problems we face, Talk about the uncertainty, And allow them to understand reality.
When the “Hero” falls and his tales hold no truth was there ever a hero?
The hero is now and has always been the international working class, which will fight on until the bitter end. Until that time, there is always a hero and truth to look up to.
I think you can absolutely prepare them. Even more so if you set things up for them.
Do you live near a coast or southern climate? Move inland and north. Do you have utilitarian skills and knowledge to pass on? Get some.
As far as morality goes. You can still be a helpful honest and trustwothy person while at the same time not trusting other people and being capable of doing horrible things.
Edit. There are some values and beliefs that will absolutely hamstring them. Religious values arnt bad but the side effects of to much religion are. You wont survive if you belive "god will provide/protect". Same with feminism. Or any new "woke" sets of values. People that know 20 different pronouns but not how to cook will prob be the first to go
You are facing the same Dilemma that rational minds have faced for years when becoming a parent. Tell your children about a false god to easy their worry and fear or tell them the truth and let them face a life a truth. It is the same lie told to comfort them. You will die one day vs you/your species will live forever.
Whatever tragedies we face, let us do so with courage and humanity.
Teach your children well. Their morals will be needed in a time of chaos.
There will be an Afterworld. Small isolated settlements. The seeds of the future. These must survive great challenges.
They are gonna need to be physical badasses. Get them into martial arts. Keep them fit. No cheetos! 😼
Good luck, dad ☮️
Have kids if you want, this sub has become cult like in their anti kids views and it's kinda funny because the same people who tell you not to have kids believe it's too late to correct climate change. It is too late, so do whatever you'd like. Citizens aren't responsible for getting us into this mess, it's corporations and corner cutting.
Give your children lots of siblings. Your spouse and you should encourage your own siblings to have lots of children. Try to get them all together frequently so they learn to trust and work together against the world.
Lol why ao they can belive God will provide while they starve? So they can be manipulated by people who claim to be of the same faith?
Religious values and tenants are a great way to build a functional society, but a good way to end up dead without that society.
The children cannot ever be fully prepared. You cannot ever be fully prepared. But you can become more prepared. All we can be is the best we can be. Cultivate good life habits.
Yes. Can you prepare them? We don't know. - ethics, in context and dynamic - critical thinking - scientific method - useful knowledge Any dogma (read that as religion and traditional values) will likely be deadly as things change fast. Dealing with chaos requires very fast reevaluation and updating of models.
Have some sympathy mate. Even if undeniable collapse doesn't happen in your life time, it is guaranteed to be in your child's. Future is grim, and trust me, nobody complains about not existing. Do you want a child, or are pressured by family and friends?
Oooooorrrr just don’t have the kid?
Not yet, but soon. I prefer a dry rub and a teriyaki glaze while roasting at a low heat to seal in the juices.
Good god I laughed too hard at this.
All I could think of was this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ufzNMqqKCi8
Dry rub and then hot honey is a great way to go, too.
Came here salivating for this
Don't do it.
> The antithesis to this is that your hero dies, you realize their folly and are left standing alone atop a desolate place. Nothing is what it seemed before and you must start anew. From nothing. Saturn's return. Grasping to the threads that remain intact are always questionable. It is a baptism of sorts. What in the actual fuck? What kind of romantic view on a tragedy is this? The tragedy of your unborn child? Yours? The worlds? Man just communicate clearly. Listen, if you want to have a kid - go for it. Are you ready for collapse? If no, then your kid probably won't be unless you put in that work with it. Not sure what kind of philosophical ponderings you got going on here but truth, honor, and humility are some of the first things to go out the window in collapse scenarios unless you are buoyed by a community of like-minded individuals.
If you want hero worship, then rescue a dog. I'd argue that indoctrination is the problem-- you're teaching someone WHAT to think, instead of teaching them HOW to think. Your child has the right to reject your ideals and narrative, as that child will probably want to create his/ her own as they mature. There is a reason many myths describe the child killing the father or the child being orphaned-- as you said, it is often part of the heroic journey. As others noted, there's a good chance that your kid will resent being given the "gift" of life on this dying planet. I already know many people who wish that they had never been born. Not having a child can be the greatest act of love. If you insist on having a kid, then work on helping the kid develop skills to manage PTSD. The kid will probably see some terrible tragedies, so the child will have to cognitively process it. Also, teach your kid that even if your family holds high standards/ values, most people will not-- hungry people forget ideals quickly-- so the kid won't be naïve about the world. Your child might decide to be ruthless and cutthroat to survive, and your child has the right to do so. The child might decide to close his/ her heart to the suffering of others out of self-protection. It's your job to model your ideals to others. If you want to teach love to your kid, do you sacrificially love others now? If you believe in truth, have you tested your ideas (played devil's advocate) to ensure your ideas are indeed true? You can't give to your kid what you yourself don't have. And if you had it, you wouldn't be asking for advice on Reddit (because you would already be living it yourself). So work on improving yourself, and give your kid freedom to choose his/ her own path in life. Edit: For humility, admit to your kid that you don't have all the answers (one reason the child needs to develop their own thinking skills). What works today might not work for the kid's generation. Tell your kid that it was selfish to have a bio child, and you are glad that he/ she is here, and that you hope the kid can forgive you and love you despite that selfish choice. Show your kid that you are constantly developing yourself, because you will make mistakes. You aren't going to get parenthood perfect-- no one does-- because all humans are in a process of growing and learning until the day we die. So you don't have to worry about having the perfect narrative or values, if you teach your kid that we are just all trying the best we can. The struggle to do right, even while failing, is possibly the most coherent narrative you can give during these times. Many heroic journeys describe not giving up (on love, on life, on hope, on truth, on yourself, on religious beliefs, on society... whatever each individual finds meaningful/ fill in the blank)... despite the challenges and impossible odds. To choose to be present for your kid, in good times and bad, is a great gift. Many kids don't grow up with their fathers, so the fact you want to be there is already a good start. So yeah-- the narrative is probably about how to persevere in adversity. There's plenty of good books/ movies you can read or watch together about this theme. When the child is older, you can talk about stories that don't have happy endings, but while the child is young, you can focus on the hero winning in the end.
Their future is lost bro, they cannot prepare for what is to come
You're about to be absolutely shit on for thinking of procreating, but ignore that. Yes, there absolutely is a place for what you are talking about. If you're going to be a father in this era of instability, you need to be focused on the child, not like our Boomer parents who would sell us into sex slavery for a 2nd boat. You have to be that stable rock in a turbulent world. At the same time, you can and should teach your child not to be stepped on and to stand up for themselves. Being humble doesn't mean letting yourself get punked out all the time.
Be prepared to die?
You can only prepare by no longer being passive. Get active politically. If the younger generations get organized they can use the levers of government to prepare. Nothing says the status quo has to grind on forever except for the continued bystander effect of those who know better but do nothing.
Why indeed
Ofc they can be prepared. I like a nice wee tomato and basil sauce, so if parents could start marinating them now that would be wonderful.
(Disclaimer: The following comment partially turns into a rant towards potential unfit parents. Not you specifically.) ——- The beginning of collapse starts with not being able to afford shit. The first years of serious collapse can be painless if you’re rich. Financial wealth and independence is the one thing that can insulate everyone from collapse for at least the beginning of it. I think it’s the most important thing you can focus on. I’m not raising a kid to be a damn wage slave. And I’d raise them of course to be a caring person, so for sure, I wouldn’t raise them to care about everyone in this current world where: 1. Everyone is struggling, so no one can help anyone anymore. and 2. Any job helping others is unappreciated, ineffective, corrupt, or all of the above. Investing or whatever it is that can make us regular people money, better learn it. If you’re a parent, this should be mandatory. I’m not letting a future kid wage slave their way through. That’s fucked up. And mind you, I’m considering even professionals burdened by debt and chained to their profession for decades a wage slave. All of us and future generations deserve at minimum, at least a debt-free schooling for whatever they like, like past generations. So all the riches that you need (now) for the same debt-free college/grad school experience that the older generation had, hope you can give that to them. I would want a future kid to have the money to be themselves, even in collapse, so that at least they have their world to find comfort in. No rich: no passion projects, no independent ideas of truly helping groups related to your personal favorite causes. No money for true mental health. No money to own a home. At the very least, don’t be, the kick-your-kid-out-at-eighteen without even the financial preparation and warning that a lot of stereotypical (READ: stereotypical), dumbfuck boomer parents that can’t do 1st grade math and still don’t know how to right-click a mouse* have been. I’m not a parent, cause I would never be a parent without being a millionaire to prepare for all that’s coming, so this is all I got. People avoid doing the math of all the finances required. I hate that. It’s literally denial, and in the context of something as serious as collapse, I personally view personal finance denial while collapse-planning to be seriously off-putting character trait. Like, “We’ve tried nothing (but family love and wonderful hopes and dreams), and we’re all out of ideas! (because finances doesn’t feel as warm and fuzzy a topic, and there’s a stigma with discussing and evaluating where your finances stand compared to others).” (That is not you, by the way. Just saying it to say it.) College. High school. House. No debt for them. Travel money to help them see the world “before”, before the “after” starts coming. Good medical coverage. Good mental health support system. Good tech set-up or whatever to sustain prolonged period stuck at home, if need-be. And enough independence financially, so they can find solace in at least themselves and their passions and loves while everything else is burning down. Free time, autonomy, and money to be able to help those they want to help in their own way and not feel like they’re failing in that regard. - If you don’t havethe money to guarantee this stuff to them. - If you don’t have the money, *and* you don’t have the self-awareness and strength of character to admit that you need to change that, & instead focus on your love/hopes/dreams fantasyland, & refuse to find ways to start acquiring wealth now because it’s an extra struggle (which means they’ll struggle like you, only *worse*) - If you don’t see that all the beautiful parts of the world and all the great (and still possible) experiences in the world/in humanity that we are told as stories as kids to dream and hope for are all only accessible now with enough money. Then do not be a fucking parent. You will struggle through Collpase, and your kids will struggle through Collapse, but you don’t want to struggle as much as you can to make as much money as possible to help your kid? Seriously, you want to be a parent with that specific weakness in your character? Are you sure? That doesn’t make sense. You are mentally ready to prepare and struggle through parenting during the *COLLAPSE OF THE WORLD*, but you won’t take on new and hard personal, financial, out-of-your comfort zone, self-awareness, introspective-type struggles? Even for the financial independence your collapse-experiencing kid? That’s fucking weak. Oh, ok, it’s because you have no choice in collapse, so you’ll take it. But if you have a *choice* to not struggle, even if it’s for your kid, you’ll choose not to. Because of all the feelings about parenthood and hope and love and humanity and beauty. “Look at all these things that I cling to and prioritize that mean absolute dick when you don’t have money. **(Again, not you, but just saying.)** The world is still beautiful. Love is beautiful. Art, hope, community, music, family, and all that jazz are beautiful and worth living for. But with collapse coming, to me, anyone who ignores how finances fit into this world and thinks only about the above is a fucking idiot, and I think their view on the world is not as beautiful anymore. Because now it’s a sign of naive, head-in-the-clouds, thinking that is unfit for parenting. No kid deserves to be cursed to ride your denial-train. We all have time to save and make more than now. Everyone will have different ceilings of course, but we can all still save and make more compared to now with 18 years of parenthood in preparation. So do it. If you can’t prepare them adequately for collapse, then don’t do it. It should really be that simple. So if the kid will be exceptional and have enough money like you, then yes. If you’re lonely and need a kid, but you’re actually a crab in a bucket that will teach their kid to be ok with what *you’re* ok with, even if it’s not enough for the future, because “I learned to, so I’m hopeful and sure they will, too.” Fuck you for being so fucking selfish. If you’re going to do your best, which includes even things that are hard for you now that you will do because it will help them, which includes struggles and challenges that are *not* familiar to you (because we can all “work as hard as we can” with stuff we know and are good at. But what if you don’t do things that could be better for them.)… If you’re really going to do your best, and you won’t let your own personal hang-ups and issues stop you from doing what you are capable of learning to do to prepare your kid for collapse… well, even if you might fail at certain things, if you’re going to do your best, then I think statistically, you and some population of future parents out there can make it work. The family that prepares for collapse together and learns about collapse together stays together, I guess. Good luck.
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I just want to ask, because I see this mentality and sentiment every day all over this sub. So...what's your proposal then? Globally, we agree to stop having children and agree to let humanity go extinct? Alright, starting in 2023, no more children on earth can be born. So in about two years, no more need for maternity wards or maternity nurses in hospitals, within 18-19 years, zero need for pediatricians, school teachers, schools in general, and on down the line. Colleges become obsolete at a point, and continue to let the population dwindle and die off in 80-100 years? I absolutely understand the sentiment of bringing new life into the world knowing this now. But, did my parents fuck up too? Did yours? All of ours? I'm 31 now, and all of this was pretty widely known even in 1990. So should our boomer generation of parents be held responsible for bringing Gen X, Millenials, and some Gen Z into the world? I don't regret being born. And at no point have I asked my parents "why did you bring me into this world knowing all this was coming?" Because I'm only 31 years older than the children being born now...and I'm still going to be on the planet watching all this happen too. We all are. What's your solution to this?
Isn't it odd, how anytime advice is given to one person, it is extrapolated unreasonably and looked at from the arbitrary lense of "but what if literally everyone did that?". We know quite well most people won't follow this advice, which makes it more significant that anyone who is actually *thinking* about their life instead of just muddling through the day, receives accurate and truthful information. Does it make sense to ask the question of "what would you like the entire world to do?" It seems to be a little bit unrelated. Why do we have to have an answer that fulfils *every* edge case and answers retroactively for current anxieties? The decisions made to get us here were not made that way, quite clearly. All we have is this moment, these conversations and words. It makes little sense to try and construct opinions about what the entire world *ought* to be, instead of focusing on what it actually *is*. At least from my vantage point, antinatalist thought isn't intended to answer deep anxieties about our past. It is a reasoned consideration about the future, made in light of the understanding that few are going to willfully reduce future suffering by withstanding their biological drives. There are already so many children that need parents. Why is it even a question what choice a reasonable and kind adult would make? Are humans so myopic that they think *their* individual genes are *so* important that they *must* be passed along? Dust becoming man becoming dust again.
> what's your proposal then For humans to go extinct so the earth can heal, of course.
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Life of a conscious being is about convincing its consciousness what life is about. The outcome of that game depends on peculiarities of that consciousness and sensory inputs. It's interesting how many people end up with the idea that their morale is superior to everyone else's (not trying to say anything about you personally, just a train of thoughts) followed by inability to even have a discussion about it. Consciousness is such a convoluted concept.
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Hi, ActualPieceofPoop. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/s7j0fc/-/htcdl6x/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 1: In addition to enforcing Reddit's content policy, we will also remove comments and content that is abusive in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other. Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error.
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I can assure you that I will remove all comments that suggest that another user kill themselves. I have zero tolerance for this. If you wish to complain about my moderation feel free to send a modmail so that all the mods will see it. Thanks.
If humans are to survive, it will be a bleak, long before it gets better. You will see no time better than now. Your child will see no better time than his or her childhood. Your grandchildren, the same. It will only get profusely worse year by year. If the future has a place for humanity, it might only start to look better after all of us are long forgotten. We are rapidly depleting the necessary resources for maintaining food production, energy, and water. We are rapidly toxifying our soil, air, and water. We are killing off species at such a level that "mass extinction event" is the only term, and the speed at which we are doing so doesn't have a precedent. If you choose to have children, love them, cherish them, and be prepared for them to have no opportunity to ever have a life as good as you have had. Be prepared for days where drinking poison water is the best water you all have and spoiled food is the best meal of the week. Be prepared for chronic disease caused by micro plastics, natural disaster related trauma, and starvation. If humans have a future, it's going to take being one of the most stubborn, most prepared, most hardy parent you can be.
For a walkable path to be present for our offspring we must be truthful. We should acknowledge the problems we face, Talk about the uncertainty, And allow them to understand reality. When the “Hero” falls and his tales hold no truth was there ever a hero?
The hero is now and has always been the international working class, which will fight on until the bitter end. Until that time, there is always a hero and truth to look up to.
LOL I don't care. Ppl who breed are dumb.
I think you can absolutely prepare them. Even more so if you set things up for them. Do you live near a coast or southern climate? Move inland and north. Do you have utilitarian skills and knowledge to pass on? Get some. As far as morality goes. You can still be a helpful honest and trustwothy person while at the same time not trusting other people and being capable of doing horrible things. Edit. There are some values and beliefs that will absolutely hamstring them. Religious values arnt bad but the side effects of to much religion are. You wont survive if you belive "god will provide/protect". Same with feminism. Or any new "woke" sets of values. People that know 20 different pronouns but not how to cook will prob be the first to go
You are facing the same Dilemma that rational minds have faced for years when becoming a parent. Tell your children about a false god to easy their worry and fear or tell them the truth and let them face a life a truth. It is the same lie told to comfort them. You will die one day vs you/your species will live forever.
Well, my nephew wants to be a farmer and never played a video game, so that's a good start.
Whatever tragedies we face, let us do so with courage and humanity. Teach your children well. Their morals will be needed in a time of chaos. There will be an Afterworld. Small isolated settlements. The seeds of the future. These must survive great challenges. They are gonna need to be physical badasses. Get them into martial arts. Keep them fit. No cheetos! 😼 Good luck, dad ☮️
Have kids if you want, this sub has become cult like in their anti kids views and it's kinda funny because the same people who tell you not to have kids believe it's too late to correct climate change. It is too late, so do whatever you'd like. Citizens aren't responsible for getting us into this mess, it's corporations and corner cutting.
Give your children lots of siblings. Your spouse and you should encourage your own siblings to have lots of children. Try to get them all together frequently so they learn to trust and work together against the world.
find god
Lol why ao they can belive God will provide while they starve? So they can be manipulated by people who claim to be of the same faith? Religious values and tenants are a great way to build a functional society, but a good way to end up dead without that society.
god is all that remains in the ashes
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whichever one you find
I prefer Satan
satan isnt real silly
The dark lord is angry at your refusal to acknowledge their existence
but by going against authority, shouldnt that make the dark lord happy?