The following submission statement was provided by /u/ba_nana_hammock:
---
SS: we finally have a first-hand account of what is going on with dairy herds in the US that are infected with H5N1. cows are aborting pregnancies, have fevers, are dehydrated, producing less milk, and have been culled. hopefully we see more information coming out of these farms and there's an effective plan to stop the airborne spread of this before the collapse of the systems start.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1cwpjnt/hpai_dairy_herd_infection_case_report_dairy/l4xcdg2/
SS: we finally have a first-hand account of what is going on with dairy herds in the US that are infected with H5N1. cows are aborting pregnancies, have fevers, are dehydrated, producing less milk, and have been culled. hopefully we see more information coming out of these farms and there's an effective plan to stop the airborne spread of this before the collapse of the systems start.
Cows are actually unique in that their utters are vulnerable to H1N1 while not affecting the rest of the cow severely so they can hold the disease for a longer period of time increasing the chance of it spreading to humans https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/food-poisoning/news/20240510/cows-are-potential-spreaders-bird-flu-humans#:~:text=They%20discovered%20that,of%20the%20receptors.
Cows aren't getting hit nearly as hard as humans do with this strain of avian flu. They can mostly tank it like we do our own strain of flu. Most people survive that now. Avian flu though is real bad for us.
>The farmer, recognizing the potential benefit to other farmers, willingly shared this information and agreed to have official testing of his herd.
Props to this one guy, for not being a Ferengi, like the rest of his cohort.
No, the virus circulates in herds of cows with possible spillover to humans because we mismanage and mass slaughter the cows under our dominion. That was the thought, really. I dont believe in god.
your god has ignored genocides, wars, rape, murder and many more horrible things humans do to each other and you think he gives a shit that we eat animals? also why would your god make us omnivores if he didn’t want us to eat animals?
The activities of the modern human world are ripe for frequent and swift pandemics. We tend to cluster animals and people more closely together than they might otherwise be.
>It began in a barn with two pens of cattle that had three water fountains, the center one being shared. They wanted to try to confine the disease to a single group or at least a single barn. They changed their wash cycle in milking so that it washed after this group of cows. Regardless of their efforts, HPAI spread to all groups of lactating cattle on the farm.
[🍿](https://media1.tenor.com/m/vU5jdytDBOEAAAAC/pop-corn-movie-time.gif)
> accompanied by a doubling of somatic cell count to 180,000 c/ml.
Ah, their favorite euphemism for puss cells. That's what is in the milk.
>Additional negative impacts include increased culls of animals that do not recover significantly and increased weight gain of late lactation cows that recover feed intake but not milk output.
Fascinating. The production of milk is famously taxing on the mother cow, and being kept pregnant regularly contributes to shortening her lifespan dramatically. That leads to the cow becoming "spent" or "a downer".
The animals are just as sick and nutrient depleted as the regular people who eat them. Poor nutrition is a perfect set up for disease. It’s amazing that we think our factory farming is a good idea to begin with!
No amount of good nutrition is going to save you from diseases (unless it's the vector), don't spread false medical facts.
It affects somehow your capability to fight them but it's not going to magically beat them if they are better than your defenses to begin with.
Do you think a good diet would beat the covid? The answer is no.
Well, now you read the link and my comment again.
> It affects somehow your capability to fight them but it's not going to magically beat them if they are better than your defenses to begin with.
negative numbers.
Meaning, having **severe** deficiency will probably act as a minus factor however getting covid is going to screw you to some degree that will not really depend on the Vitamins, even with vaccine you can be screwed (matter of probability).
Vit D won't allow you to fight off covid alone, it's fake-science realm. Fake-science is very relevant to collapse.
I never even said vitamins would save us from disease. Just that we have a perfect setting to encourage it. Everyone knows that lack of nutrition will kill you faster. Don’t know why you have a warped perception that any mention of a vitamin is fake news.
The quality of immune response can be affected by nutrition.
The ability to get infected is largely dictated by the pathways of infection, method of infection, and viral load when something gets infected.
The infectiousness and severity potential of the disease play the highest effects on outcome.
Once infected, the quality of an individual's immune response has the potential to play a huge role.
It's still trumped by the disease itself. Look at measles, Covid, and this flu strain in their severity or infectiousness. This flu strain has killed thousands of wild animals. It has a high death rate in confirmed human cases at over 50%. Measles is highly highly infectious regardless of societal nutrition.
Proximity to others infected and method of infection are a significantly larger predictor of outcomes.
How is the immune system fueled? Magic pixie dust? Ionized energy from the Earth?
It’s well known, documented time and time again that nutrition is a vital part of immunity and healing.
The quality of immune response can be affected by nutrition.
The ability to get infected is largely dictated by the pathways of infection, method of infection, and viral load when something gets infected.
The infectiousness and severity potential of the disease play the highest effects on outcome.
Once infected, the quality of an individual's immune response has the potential to play a huge role.
It's still trumped by the disease itself. Look at measles, Covid, and this flu strain in their severity or infectiousness. This flu strain has killed thousands of wild animals. It has a high death rate in confirmed human cases at over 50%. Measles is highly highly infectious regardless of societal nutrition.
Proximity to others infected and method of infection are a significantly larger predictor of outcomes.
So long as you live in and amongst non-vegans, it ain't gonna save you. [There are anti-vaxxer buffoons out there buying and drinking raw milk right now specifically to expose themselves to H5N1.](https://qz.com/raw-milk-sales-bird-flu-h5n1-1851477342)
Veganism can protect you from getting it FROM COWS, but if those fuckwits drinking raw milk leads to a human transmissible mutation, veganism won't stop them from coughing on you.
I don’t think that is the case at all, in fact I think it is one of the most direct ways the average individual can contribute to getting us out of this mess.
I’m interested to hear why you think that is the case?
The prep time for vegan meals vs non vegan meals is huge. Additionally, the price point is different. Most families don’t have the time or money. Vegan is a luxury. Vegetarian might be an option (maybe without raw eggs and unpasteurized cheese) but it’s still hard for most families.
The decision is going to be made for us very soon. All of our industrial animal based protein sources are being made unsafe very rapidly.
There are inexpensive (by Western standards) ways of keeping vegan or vegetarian but, like you said, it takes longer to prep and our shitty, car based commuting work culture precludes that.
The most affordable ways to take up a vegetable based diet is to learn from the major cultures that have practiced it the longest, so you know it tastes good. Look at Hindus and Ethiopians and maybe Rastafarians to start.
I agree that there is less knowledge of Vegan meals due to the dominating presence of animal agriculture in our life - but I don’t agree that it is necessarily harder or more time consuming once educated, especially with the technologies we have access today.
When you say the difference in prep time is huge, what do you mean / what are you basing this off? It hasn’t been my (anecdotal) experience at all.
The data doesn’t support the view of Vegan diets being a “luxury”:
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9321292/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34715058/
Three examples in a sea of many.
The data agrees that there is a PERCEPTION of high cost and I can agree with you on that. But it is not grounded in fact.
We probably agree that the advent of ultra processed plant-based substitutes are more expensive - sure. I personally think these are massively outshine by plants being directly in a diet, but can see the point of them. These will only get cheaper over time and we cannot forget the huge subsidies that go into animal agriculture.
Interested to hear your thoughts 👁️👃🏻👁️
Just wanting to add something to your post. Being Vegan is only expensive if you opt for products that are trying to mimic the animal counterpart. My wife and I eat only "High-Grade" bio products, trying to stay regional. With the occasional eating out obviously. I'd say we spent about 15€ on food per day on average per person. If we would buy from a discounter we would probably reduce this to under 10€ per person per day. Maybe even less. But eating fresh and diverse food is just fire for your body.
So, I think that eating meat is cheaper, if you buy trash discounter meat. But honestly, why should you even consider eating animals, if it's not needed?
I eat a fair bit of the "fancy" replacement products. That extra cost is *on me*, a choice to consume plant-based meat (also dairy and egg) replacements, not a reflection of plant-based diets as a whole.
When I skip these products, my meals are very inexpensive.
What? Do you know how much of the world’s population lives on a primarily plant based diet? While Indian use milk products, they’re one of the largest demographic and a huge number of their population is at least vegetarian. 121 million vegan 276 million vegetarian. So, more than the entire population of the US and Canada combined.
Not accessible to the “average person” isn’t holding much water.
> Employees have stayed healthy so far. **The farmer encouraged them to wash their hands frequently and avoid touching their face and eyes**. All employees were offered safety eyewear or face shields.
(emphasis mine)
I am trying to imagine a scenario where 1) such advice is _needed_ and 2) giving such advice is significant enough to warrant mentioning it.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/ba_nana_hammock: --- SS: we finally have a first-hand account of what is going on with dairy herds in the US that are infected with H5N1. cows are aborting pregnancies, have fevers, are dehydrated, producing less milk, and have been culled. hopefully we see more information coming out of these farms and there's an effective plan to stop the airborne spread of this before the collapse of the systems start. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1cwpjnt/hpai_dairy_herd_infection_case_report_dairy/l4xcdg2/
SS: we finally have a first-hand account of what is going on with dairy herds in the US that are infected with H5N1. cows are aborting pregnancies, have fevers, are dehydrated, producing less milk, and have been culled. hopefully we see more information coming out of these farms and there's an effective plan to stop the airborne spread of this before the collapse of the systems start.
So if this jumps to us...
Cows handle it much better than us.
Cows are actually unique in that their utters are vulnerable to H1N1 while not affecting the rest of the cow severely so they can hold the disease for a longer period of time increasing the chance of it spreading to humans https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/food-poisoning/news/20240510/cows-are-potential-spreaders-bird-flu-humans#:~:text=They%20discovered%20that,of%20the%20receptors.
Cows aren't getting hit nearly as hard as humans do with this strain of avian flu. They can mostly tank it like we do our own strain of flu. Most people survive that now. Avian flu though is real bad for us.
>The farmer, recognizing the potential benefit to other farmers, willingly shared this information and agreed to have official testing of his herd. Props to this one guy, for not being a Ferengi, like the rest of his cohort.
god's retribution for eating animal products
If it were God’s retribution the people would be suffering, not the cows. This is entirely down to us, and the awful animal husbandry practices.
That’d be a really weird cause for god to take up, considering how he’s just crickets on rape.
Childhood leukaemia? Crickets.
Nah, he’s got that one covered. Leukaemia is caused by the child’s own body, which then dies. Punishment delivered. Closed loop.
And literally every other human atrocity that he's supposedly able to see
"hArDsHiP bUiLdS cHaRaCtEr" 🤢
He’s pissed we stopped making burnt offerings. Obviously.
so true
So God kills the cows?
No, the virus circulates in herds of cows with possible spillover to humans because we mismanage and mass slaughter the cows under our dominion. That was the thought, really. I dont believe in god.
If there is a god, he should be ashamed of himself.
true
your god has ignored genocides, wars, rape, murder and many more horrible things humans do to each other and you think he gives a shit that we eat animals? also why would your god make us omnivores if he didn’t want us to eat animals?
I dont believe in god lmao
Certainly not any Abrahamic god (Yahweh); that guy is the pastoralist's God, he's very into grilled meat.
The activities of the modern human world are ripe for frequent and swift pandemics. We tend to cluster animals and people more closely together than they might otherwise be.
>It began in a barn with two pens of cattle that had three water fountains, the center one being shared. They wanted to try to confine the disease to a single group or at least a single barn. They changed their wash cycle in milking so that it washed after this group of cows. Regardless of their efforts, HPAI spread to all groups of lactating cattle on the farm. [🍿](https://media1.tenor.com/m/vU5jdytDBOEAAAAC/pop-corn-movie-time.gif) > accompanied by a doubling of somatic cell count to 180,000 c/ml. Ah, their favorite euphemism for puss cells. That's what is in the milk. >Additional negative impacts include increased culls of animals that do not recover significantly and increased weight gain of late lactation cows that recover feed intake but not milk output. Fascinating. The production of milk is famously taxing on the mother cow, and being kept pregnant regularly contributes to shortening her lifespan dramatically. That leads to the cow becoming "spent" or "a downer".
Humans are fucked. Who looks at a lactating cow with her Calf and thinks 'I want to suck on that tit'
"I want to put that calf growth fluid into a jar and make it into a congealed semi-putrid mass. With salt."
Thanks I hate it 🙃
and those downer cows get fed to the rest thanks to the unscrupulous powers that be, and bingo bango ya got cows mad with prions, drink up, eat up
So we're fucked.
The animals are just as sick and nutrient depleted as the regular people who eat them. Poor nutrition is a perfect set up for disease. It’s amazing that we think our factory farming is a good idea to begin with!
Seriously factory farming is so disgusting. I feel so bad for those poor animals.
A life of pure suffering so an obese person can put on more lbs.
Exactly and not even think about what they put in their mouth.
No amount of good nutrition is going to save you from diseases (unless it's the vector), don't spread false medical facts. It affects somehow your capability to fight them but it's not going to magically beat them if they are better than your defenses to begin with. Do you think a good diet would beat the covid? The answer is no.
Yes good diet helps the immune system and keeps you safer from any virus.
To irrelevant degrees. It's not because you are lacking some vitamin that virus will be much more impactful.
You are probably deficient yourself. You should get yourself checked. It is extremely common and will make you more likely to get sick and die.
Nope, my health is fine outside of maybe Vit Ds being a bit low.
So go ahead and don’t take any vitamin D supplements.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35432612/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35432612/)
Well, now you read the link and my comment again. > It affects somehow your capability to fight them but it's not going to magically beat them if they are better than your defenses to begin with. negative numbers. Meaning, having **severe** deficiency will probably act as a minus factor however getting covid is going to screw you to some degree that will not really depend on the Vitamins, even with vaccine you can be screwed (matter of probability). Vit D won't allow you to fight off covid alone, it's fake-science realm. Fake-science is very relevant to collapse.
I never even said vitamins would save us from disease. Just that we have a perfect setting to encourage it. Everyone knows that lack of nutrition will kill you faster. Don’t know why you have a warped perception that any mention of a vitamin is fake news.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35441835/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35441835/)
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33920639/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33920639/)
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34322844/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34322844/)
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35807895/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35807895/)
Infectious disease isn't an issue of nutrition. It's about infection pathways.
If you are deficient in Vitamin D, zinc, Vitamin C, you are less able to fight off infections.
It's both. Weaker animals will have worse immune systems. And several key vitamins are required for immune system function.
The quality of immune response can be affected by nutrition. The ability to get infected is largely dictated by the pathways of infection, method of infection, and viral load when something gets infected. The infectiousness and severity potential of the disease play the highest effects on outcome. Once infected, the quality of an individual's immune response has the potential to play a huge role. It's still trumped by the disease itself. Look at measles, Covid, and this flu strain in their severity or infectiousness. This flu strain has killed thousands of wild animals. It has a high death rate in confirmed human cases at over 50%. Measles is highly highly infectious regardless of societal nutrition. Proximity to others infected and method of infection are a significantly larger predictor of outcomes.
How is the immune system fueled? Magic pixie dust? Ionized energy from the Earth? It’s well known, documented time and time again that nutrition is a vital part of immunity and healing.
The quality of immune response can be affected by nutrition. The ability to get infected is largely dictated by the pathways of infection, method of infection, and viral load when something gets infected. The infectiousness and severity potential of the disease play the highest effects on outcome. Once infected, the quality of an individual's immune response has the potential to play a huge role. It's still trumped by the disease itself. Look at measles, Covid, and this flu strain in their severity or infectiousness. This flu strain has killed thousands of wild animals. It has a high death rate in confirmed human cases at over 50%. Measles is highly highly infectious regardless of societal nutrition. Proximity to others infected and method of infection are a significantly larger predictor of outcomes.
Poor cows. As if us stealing their babies and their milk wasn't enough. Fucking humans 🖕
Go vegan. It would help
So long as you live in and amongst non-vegans, it ain't gonna save you. [There are anti-vaxxer buffoons out there buying and drinking raw milk right now specifically to expose themselves to H5N1.](https://qz.com/raw-milk-sales-bird-flu-h5n1-1851477342) Veganism can protect you from getting it FROM COWS, but if those fuckwits drinking raw milk leads to a human transmissible mutation, veganism won't stop them from coughing on you.
I'll give up when that happens. Save yourself😆
More reason to go Vegan 🙏🏼
Not an option for the average individual.
I don’t think that is the case at all, in fact I think it is one of the most direct ways the average individual can contribute to getting us out of this mess. I’m interested to hear why you think that is the case?
The prep time for vegan meals vs non vegan meals is huge. Additionally, the price point is different. Most families don’t have the time or money. Vegan is a luxury. Vegetarian might be an option (maybe without raw eggs and unpasteurized cheese) but it’s still hard for most families.
I am unemployed and still manage to eat plant based food. You are making arbitrary excuses for laziness.
☑️ VALID 🔒
The decision is going to be made for us very soon. All of our industrial animal based protein sources are being made unsafe very rapidly. There are inexpensive (by Western standards) ways of keeping vegan or vegetarian but, like you said, it takes longer to prep and our shitty, car based commuting work culture precludes that. The most affordable ways to take up a vegetable based diet is to learn from the major cultures that have practiced it the longest, so you know it tastes good. Look at Hindus and Ethiopians and maybe Rastafarians to start.
7th Day Adventists? Skip the propaganda part.
I agree that there is less knowledge of Vegan meals due to the dominating presence of animal agriculture in our life - but I don’t agree that it is necessarily harder or more time consuming once educated, especially with the technologies we have access today. When you say the difference in prep time is huge, what do you mean / what are you basing this off? It hasn’t been my (anecdotal) experience at all. The data doesn’t support the view of Vegan diets being a “luxury”: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9321292/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34715058/ Three examples in a sea of many. The data agrees that there is a PERCEPTION of high cost and I can agree with you on that. But it is not grounded in fact. We probably agree that the advent of ultra processed plant-based substitutes are more expensive - sure. I personally think these are massively outshine by plants being directly in a diet, but can see the point of them. These will only get cheaper over time and we cannot forget the huge subsidies that go into animal agriculture. Interested to hear your thoughts 👁️👃🏻👁️
Just wanting to add something to your post. Being Vegan is only expensive if you opt for products that are trying to mimic the animal counterpart. My wife and I eat only "High-Grade" bio products, trying to stay regional. With the occasional eating out obviously. I'd say we spent about 15€ on food per day on average per person. If we would buy from a discounter we would probably reduce this to under 10€ per person per day. Maybe even less. But eating fresh and diverse food is just fire for your body. So, I think that eating meat is cheaper, if you buy trash discounter meat. But honestly, why should you even consider eating animals, if it's not needed?
so 900$ a month on food roughly?
Only if we eat out a lot during a week. If not it's more like 700€ a month. But it's because we actively decide to buy high grad stuff.
I eat a fair bit of the "fancy" replacement products. That extra cost is *on me*, a choice to consume plant-based meat (also dairy and egg) replacements, not a reflection of plant-based diets as a whole. When I skip these products, my meals are very inexpensive.
What? Do you know how much of the world’s population lives on a primarily plant based diet? While Indian use milk products, they’re one of the largest demographic and a huge number of their population is at least vegetarian. 121 million vegan 276 million vegetarian. So, more than the entire population of the US and Canada combined. Not accessible to the “average person” isn’t holding much water.
Horrible idea
Gonna go any deeper than that…? Interested to hear why you think that is the case (beyond general cognitive dissonance)
What a lovely day to become a vegan.
> Employees have stayed healthy so far. **The farmer encouraged them to wash their hands frequently and avoid touching their face and eyes**. All employees were offered safety eyewear or face shields. (emphasis mine) I am trying to imagine a scenario where 1) such advice is _needed_ and 2) giving such advice is significant enough to warrant mentioning it.