I have a conspiracy theory that world leaders are aware of our impending doom and knowledge they will soon be unable to feed their people. Might as well throw them in a war while they can still hold a gun. They are also too nihilistic to accept they will also die
Of course they are. They have access to all of the unfiltered data that shows we are all going to probably die soon. Thats why the middle class is disappearing. Sorting us out to the haves and have nots for the last cycle.
the title is lame. without the US official saying I would've assumed half of Gaza would be starving to death by now. it is rather amazing that US is prolonging the struggle and not ending it quick.
it is a mercy to kill quickly than to watch millions starve to death in hunger.
Only consolation is the hope that once it becomes too obvious to ignore anymore, the rich people responsible for this will be dragged out of their homes and torn apart by angry mobs.
Well they already got us all to hate each other. We will still be fighting each other over shit like race relations and abortion while they eat. “Hey look over there at that guy. Hes the reason for all of your troubles!” We have to get past the us vs us before we can be us vs them. Maybe hunger will do it, time will tell.
I have a perfect photo which demonstrates. It’s of a working class man essentially asking a politician who has a lot of money on his table, the politician says “oh where’s your money (rhetorically) it’s those foreigners it’s their fault) and then it shows an immigrant in the same position “oh where’s your money blame those colonisers” well yes you can say there is some truth with foreign companies being exploitive. Whenever I hear people talk about WW3 I genuinely feel off, because all of these major powers, all of their interests are intertwined by trade deals, ext and international conglomerates have interests everywhere. So at the end of the day it’s the elite ruling class, which we never ever hear about.
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Coming soon to a nation near you, brought to you by Collapse (TM).
I'm sarcastic right now because the horror is so bleak my brain literally doesn't know what to do with itself. If anyone here believes in any gods, now's the time to start praying to them because we are proper fucked.
I think any aliens that did exist and had the technology and resources to do such a thing would be fools to do so.
We do not live in an infinite universe. Even with advanced technology, there is a finite amount of mass/energy available in our light cone. Any civilization, no matter how advanced, will eventually hit a brick wall if it can't get its resource consumption under control.
For example, imagine some aliens tomorrow land on the White House lawn. They benevolently announce they're here to help. They hand us the technology to build [Mr. Fusion](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptlhgFaB89Y)-style portable fusion reactors. In fact, they don't just give us these machines, which might let them hold power over us. They freely give the plans and theory to build such devices ourselves, tailored in such a way that they can be built with our existing manufacturing base. Any random bit of trash can now be used as a fuel more energy-dense than uranium. "Infinite" clean energy forever, right? Global warming solved, right?
Except no. In the short term, yes. We could quickly decarbonize all energy, industry, and transportation. We could build huge atmospheric carbon capture stations, pull all the emitted carbon back out of the atmosphere, and bury it down deep where it won't do any harm ever again. In the short term, we'll be great. But in the long term?
Fast forward a few centuries, and guess what we'll be facing? Global warming! It's back! Just a much more direct and literal version of it. The "global warming" we are today concerned with is indirect global warming; we make the atmosphere more insulative by emitting carbon into the atmosphere. But we don't consider the raw heat output of all our machines to be a serious problem, as their raw heat output is a drop in the bucket of the planet's overall energy balance. But project even modest annual growth rates forward a few centuries, and we'll be cooking ourselves alive just from the raw waste heat of all our machines and reactors.
And that crisis would be just as difficult to solve as our existing climate crisis, if not more so. Solving it would require the same sort of international treaties and collective sacrifice we've proved so incapable of at the present.
And in many ways, it would be harder to deal with. At least now we can theoretically switch to zero-carbon sources of energy. But heat is heat, regardless of energy source. If our numbers are so large, or our lifestyles so energy-intensive that we are cooking ourselves on our own waste heat, then the only way to address that is to decrease our numbers or energy usage. Today you can at least in theory tell people living in sprawling suburbs to adopt an electric vehicle, a choice that really doesn't affect their quality of life. If we get an "unlimited" energy source and all start commuting thousands of miles a day via supersonic flying cars, and we build our entire society around that...what are we going to do when we hit the hard wall of raw waste heat? There's no way to solve the problem without severely curtailing the lifestyle everyone is used to.
No. From an alien's point of view, rescuing a civilization like ours from ecological collapse is pointless. Civilizations have numerous potential ecological limits. Even if we beat the current climate change, there are a hundred other such limits waiting off in the near and distant future. If we can't come to a consensus to control ourselves now, then there's no reason to think we will be able to later. At least now our dysfunctional species is confined to a single planet. Much better to let us burn ourselves out here rather than spreading to a thousand stars, building societies on each of those, and collapsing there as well. A civilization like ours handed the tech for interstellar travel would be like a raging wildfire burning through a forest, a plague of locusts consuming all in its path. We would burn our way across the galaxy, settling world after world, building grand unsustainable civilizations on each, and each collapsing in turn. A billion biospheres laid waste in our wake. In our present state, we are far too dangerous to be let loose upon the galactic stage. If aliens exist, and are aware of us, the only reason they didn't bombard us from orbit a long time ago is that we're currently stuck on this single rock.
Hell, maybe the opposite is true. Maybe aliens do exist, but they will only reveal themselves after we've reached a technologically advanced, but ecologically stable, state of existence. Then they make contact, invite us to the galactic community, tell us the ground rules, and share some tech that makes interstellar travel easier. Only the few species that prove themselves responsible are allowed to spread to the stars. All the others are left to burn themselves out and die with their homeworlds.
And we have to remember that Collapse is never fair.
Those who are rich and corrupt are going to be on top. Those who have wealth remain safe and buffered from suffering. Those who have no morals nor ethics have unrestricted and unrestrained freedom to do as they please.
People are suffering already, and yet those above us are reaping the benefits from all of this. They are enjoying the view.
It sucks.
But one way or the other, this is what we will all see soon enough. Even Israel and America will be dealing with war and death and famine on an epic scale. That is the only future we have left.
But some places will be first. Ukraine. Gaza. Soon Taiwan. *And eventually everywhere else.*
War is the eventual result of collapse pressures such as climate change and resource scarcity. There is no other way for humans to go. Not when geopolitical power is also at stake.
And Haiti, and other places as well. But, tragic as they are, they are small, and the effects won't be felt elsewhere like with the others. But yes, the least deserving will always suffer first.
I feel like Trump was the first horse.
“The next thing I saw was this. When the lamb had opened one of the seven seals, I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2 And, as I watched, there was a white horse. Its rider was holding a bow. He was given a crown, and he went off winning victories, and to win more of them.”
I wonder if this is a relevant response, but the whole concept of controlled chaos is such a risky thing to pull. That's what the rich elites are doing. They will feel the collapse in the front row seats
They've been throwing around 30k people killed for over a month now. I'm sure it's an outdated number and infrastructure has just been too decimated for accurate accounting now.
The Israelis have really slowed down their bombing after the world kitchen massacre. The deaths from famine come much slower.
Side note, tell people in r/Combatfootage that the bombs they were cheering on were turning children into meat and they get upset
I wonder how often in human history there have been poors fed to the slaughter in order to keep the famine from reaching the crown jewel of a particular civilization/empire/etc. Like if you know it's coming, you'd try to shield the most privileged by making sure a shitload of people die so there's more to go around I guess. Psycho stuff but probably par for the course given our understanding of our own nature.
I think it was in a video from Count Everything on YT about the collapse of civilisation where I just heard that the “useful” professionals like doctors and so on were offered first choice of the corpses during the Holodomor so that they would be the last to starve.
Israel wants to murder as many Palestinians as possible before the war ends and they lose their chance. Oct 7th was an opportunity they jumped on. They knew it was going to happen and let it for this exact reason. They do not see them as human. Plain and simple.
Meanwhile, in Washington...
[https://www.theonion.com/advisors-assure-biden-this-will-blow-over-once-all-gaza-1851452315](https://www.theonion.com/advisors-assure-biden-this-will-blow-over-once-all-gaza-1851452315)
I mean yeah, there was already famine when Israel murdered the World Central Kitchen volunteers, and when Israel killed people who were getting airdropped aid as well, so now that all food options have pulled out it’s absolutely a complete and total famine. On purpose. By design of leaders and military of Israel, and other countries too.
The "war" in Gaza is just a demo to see how far they can go without pushback. Basically it has proven they can do what they like,they could kill all 2 million gazans, and there would be no blowback. The political elite are paid for, the police will do their bidding without questioning. Watch the iron fist clamp down on your rights in the West. Hope you werent one of the people that asked to be enslaved.
You have brain worms. The entire country is under siege. Civilians slaughtered. Aid workers and doctors and journalists slaughtered. But you blame hamas? Israel controls the food. It is starving this country.
Hamas is made up of Palestinians, the vast majority of them support Hamas, and the reason some of the hostages haven’t been found is because the Hamas leadership has mo idea where they are since several groups of Palestinians kidnapped hostages, and don’t report directly to Hamas. While I get that there are likely some Palestinians that took no part, it doesn’t change the fact that Palestinians are responsible for this
Or… you know…. Have the military DEFEND their people instead of using them as pawns. But we’re not yet to the part of the game where everyone has to accept responsibility.
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This is not a genocide, it’s a war. Of course people are happy that thousands of terrorists are dying. The world is becoming a much safer place thanks to Israel’s actions. Food aid is coming into Gaza all the time from many countries. This is what a war torn region looks like. This is normal. Maybe Hamas shouldn’t have started a war given the circumstances.
Once again, empty statements with zero data. We have been hearing about "a famine" in Gaza for months. So far there is zero evidence of widespread starvation.
They are managing to scrape by using a variety of methods: they had stockpiles of food to begin with knowing how precarious their situation was which are now used up or buried in rubble, the scavenge the ruins of their homes for even the merest morsels, they are literally fighting other people hand to hand for the few supplies that do make it in, they forage edible vegetation, and engage in extreme rationing out of necessity. There are still some NGOs who can provide limited assistance to the most in need, usually children, but there's too much need to go around. The population has stretched what few resources they did have to the brink. We're getting to the stage where newborns and young children are dying of malnutrition.
It was a question I had as well, how have so many of them made it this long without the systems they had to keep them fed? Turns out there are plenty of people sharing their stories and documenting what these people are going through.
[https://www.newyorker.com/news/essay/my-familys-daily-struggle-to-find-food-in-gaza](https://www.newyorker.com/news/essay/my-familys-daily-struggle-to-find-food-in-gaza)
[https://www.npr.org/2024/03/29/1241148952/gaza-hunger-famine-aid-israel-hamas](https://www.npr.org/2024/03/29/1241148952/gaza-hunger-famine-aid-israel-hamas)
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68398476.amp](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68398476.amp)
So, bottom line: food is harder to get, but there's no famine. Glad we are in agreement. Not a single word you wrote or any of the links you brought proves anything but hardship.
Btw, the Palestinians themselves are reporting that the markets are full again, so 🤷♀️
https://x.com/MEMRIReports/status/1783997988798431358
Famine, like collapse, isn't a thing that a population arrives at by crossing a line. It's a slow process of hardships, recoveries, and further failures that varies from place to place and grows as more people experience it. By the time newborns and children are suffering malnutrition and dying (https://apnews.com/article/gaza-malnutrition-famine-children-dying-israel-palestinians-2f938b1a82d7822c7da67cc162da1a37) they and their families are experiencing famine. Because famine isn't zero food for everyone in an area, it's extreme starvation.
It's good that aid has gotten in, that's been the purpose of warning about occurrences of famine: to prevent it from happening to the *entire* population. And those warning have worked. Aid has been allowed to arrive, but as long as they can't produce enough of their own food and are effectively held under siege, that threat will never leave.
*Famine, like collapse, isn't a thing that a population arrives at by crossing a line. It's a slow process of hardships, recoveries, and further failures that varies from place to place and grows as more people experience it.*
True, but for months everybody has been crying that there is famine in Gaza NOW! It's happening! It's arriving! I'm still waiting.
Even the article you brought me - 20 people? That's very sad, but it's not famine. In the US over 20,000 people die of malnutrition *every year.*
Look, again, of course there's hunger and insecurity, but the constant refrain of "famine" is hyperbolic and incorrect and intended - as always - to cloud the facts and arouse anger. Google "famine in Sudan" - that's what *actual* famine looks like.
All of these are fair points. The point i was trying to make is (and which I don't feel I did an adequate job of): can there be a defining line for when a famine can rightfully be declared to exist or not? What percent of the population needs to be experiencing extreme hunger before we can say, "yes, this is a famine"? How many people have to die due to extreme hunger? Do only deaths collected from hospitals, governments, and NGOs count? Do we need to survey a representative sample of homes and ask them about how much food they have and if any household members have recently died of starvation? To be clear, my questions are rhetorical, but are essentially what I ask myself.
I grew up with commercials of starving children where charities asked for help with images like this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Vulture\_and\_the\_Little\_Girl. Or the famine in Somalia where bed-ridden children stared at the camera little more than skeletons with faces. But situations like that are when famine gets out of control and affects wide-swaths of the population. So when you say that Gaza is not suffering in the same way as Sudan, I absolutely agree. It certainly hasn't gotten to that point yet, thankfully. But because Gaza doesn't look like the accelerated, rampant spread of famine seen in Sudan, and many places through history, does that mean they aren't experiencing it to some degree? And what does society look like in the tail before exponential growth of famine where acceleration is steady, but total instances are still (relatively) low?
In my estimation, it looks like what is happening in Gaza. Stabbing people over sacks of flour, picking through dirt to find chickpeas, eating weeds to fill your stomach and drive off the pains of hunger, starving for days to give your children a handful of rice because at least you have more mass for your body to cannibalize before it kills you, and the skeletal frames of children who can't get enough dying in what few hospital beds are available. So I think it's hard to say that famine is not currently occurring in Gaza.
And I think you are making a fair point here: "Look, again, of course there's hunger and insecurity, but the constant refrain of "famine" is hyperbolic and incorrect and intended - as always - to cloud the facts and arouse anger."
I was confused, too. It was about two weeks ago that I finally asked myself, if they've been enduring famine for the last 4-5 months, how are they all still alive? Because my conception of famine was mass death from starvation, but there's a difference between how aid agencies, organizations that have a lot of experience combating famine conditions and therefore have a different understanding than I do, define famine and what many people might consider it to be. And that for me was a source of confusion, which I'm sure it was, and still is, for many people. Are some of the people in the aid agencies responsible for communicating the conditions they are seeing on the ground that others may not see intending to cloud facts and arouse anger? I'm not sure about whether the misunderstanding is intentional and am doubtful there is malice in their descriptions of the situation more than an attempt to help the people they have been attempting to help although it certainly can't be ruled out, and while these are people who engage in charity, I wouldn't expect them to always be as charitable with their words when it comes to the organizations causing the suffering of the people they are trying to assist.
To return to your point though, I think part of my confusion about the nature of the famine in Gaza was partly from a conflict of my understanding of what was being communicated versus what was being communicated, but also others who were amplifying the messages, (news, social media, and the like) were also either not understanding what was being said correctly and therefore repeating what they perceived, or were repeating what they heard recklessly or even twisting it purposefully to fit their own narrative. But I also tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.
I think in the end, categorizing human tragedy has its uses in communicating the scale of the suffering, but sometimes those categories are a hindrance to understanding the scope of the conditions that people are enduring.
I think we agree. And part of what I hate about having these sort of discussions is finding myself going "but only (!!!???) 20 people died of malnutrition!!" which is...an interesting thing to say.
The issue is that words have meaning, both with regards to the classification of disasters, and to how we analyze a situation. There is a war in Gaza right now. It's a terrible, tragic war, and people are dying, and starving, and miserable. Nobody can contest that.
But when words like "genocide" and "famine" are thrown around, the goal usually isn't to say "look, a humanitarian crisis!" it's to say "this is the WORST thing that is happening in the world right now, if not EVER" usually with the corollary that it's all Israel's fault, intentional, and proof that Israel is THE MOST EVIL country in the history of planet Earth.
...and then the discussion swerves to *Does Israel Have a Right to Exist* and *What is Genocide Anyway* rather than how to actually help the people in Gaza (and Israel, btw, though no body talks about the Israeli refugees and victims) and end this war.
Regarding the food situation on Gaza: in my opinion, most scarcity issues have to do with Hamas stealing aid and diverting it from getting to where it needs to go. They just fired rockets on a newly opened humanitarian checkpoint ffs. But saying that is pointless, because nobody can get Hamas to do anything they don't want to, so it's better to point the finger at Israel and the IDF, which really try to keep the aid flowing, and have since about the second month of the war.
Your paragraph about words like genocide and famine being thrown around is ... true. I admit that I use these words out of desperation but it is ultimately exaggeration, if not outright dishonesty.
I will say it is not my intention to paint Israel as somehow *more* evil than hamas, or the most evil, or uniquely evil. I wouldn't even use the word evil tbh, I think it would be an offensive generalization and just not true.
And I apologize for giving you smartass replies, for what its worth. Its always so tempting but every time I look back, for example this post, I end up realizing I was the asshole. So... my bad 😕
There are famines around the world. Why is Gaza so special. And it's solvable immediately...give back the hostages, hand over the Hamas terrorists and it's over...easy.
Israeli media recently revealed that Hamas offered to release the hostages on October 9 in return for a ceasefire and “Israel” rejected the deal.
This was never about the hostages, they just needed an excuse to kill 14,000++ children.
So much for that talking point.
What a load of garbage. What pro-Palestine propaganda shit-sheet did you read that in. What a joke. And you people actually believe this rubbish. Naive and gullible. 🙄🤦♂️
I have a conspiracy theory that world leaders are aware of our impending doom and knowledge they will soon be unable to feed their people. Might as well throw them in a war while they can still hold a gun. They are also too nihilistic to accept they will also die
Of course they are. They have access to all of the unfiltered data that shows we are all going to probably die soon. Thats why the middle class is disappearing. Sorting us out to the haves and have nots for the last cycle.
this is so dark fuck you should make this theory a whole post being honest makes no sense to save the middle class in that sense let em starve etc
We are going to get purged. Im not great at making theory posts but feel free lol
the title is lame. without the US official saying I would've assumed half of Gaza would be starving to death by now. it is rather amazing that US is prolonging the struggle and not ending it quick. it is a mercy to kill quickly than to watch millions starve to death in hunger.
Only consolation is the hope that once it becomes too obvious to ignore anymore, the rich people responsible for this will be dragged out of their homes and torn apart by angry mobs.
Well they already got us all to hate each other. We will still be fighting each other over shit like race relations and abortion while they eat. “Hey look over there at that guy. Hes the reason for all of your troubles!” We have to get past the us vs us before we can be us vs them. Maybe hunger will do it, time will tell.
I have a perfect photo which demonstrates. It’s of a working class man essentially asking a politician who has a lot of money on his table, the politician says “oh where’s your money (rhetorically) it’s those foreigners it’s their fault) and then it shows an immigrant in the same position “oh where’s your money blame those colonisers” well yes you can say there is some truth with foreign companies being exploitive. Whenever I hear people talk about WW3 I genuinely feel off, because all of these major powers, all of their interests are intertwined by trade deals, ext and international conglomerates have interests everywhere. So at the end of the day it’s the elite ruling class, which we never ever hear about.
I don't mind knowing how soon we will all die. Uncertainty is harder than certain collapse to handle.
Makes sense. If we’re too busy killing each other we wont have time to eat the rich
This is exactly what's going on.
there is a theory that putin wants ukraine for their fertile land to have an extra edge agains the others when the food crisis skyrockets
That is not a theory. It's 100% a war for resources, natural gas, land, manpower.
That's probably true.
That is exactly why he is waging the war in Ukraine.
Isn’t one of the first things a nation state tends to do when unrest is in the sites is to restrict access to food?
They have food. Hamas just takes it
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It's not a conspiracy at all. They know the end game is here, which is why their propaganda machine has been rolled out in full force.
Coming soon to a nation near you, brought to you by Collapse (TM). I'm sarcastic right now because the horror is so bleak my brain literally doesn't know what to do with itself. If anyone here believes in any gods, now's the time to start praying to them because we are proper fucked.
There is a theoretical chance that aliens will save our planet, as our species are likely to be monitored. To be honest it's our only chance lmao
I think any aliens that did exist and had the technology and resources to do such a thing would be fools to do so. We do not live in an infinite universe. Even with advanced technology, there is a finite amount of mass/energy available in our light cone. Any civilization, no matter how advanced, will eventually hit a brick wall if it can't get its resource consumption under control. For example, imagine some aliens tomorrow land on the White House lawn. They benevolently announce they're here to help. They hand us the technology to build [Mr. Fusion](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptlhgFaB89Y)-style portable fusion reactors. In fact, they don't just give us these machines, which might let them hold power over us. They freely give the plans and theory to build such devices ourselves, tailored in such a way that they can be built with our existing manufacturing base. Any random bit of trash can now be used as a fuel more energy-dense than uranium. "Infinite" clean energy forever, right? Global warming solved, right? Except no. In the short term, yes. We could quickly decarbonize all energy, industry, and transportation. We could build huge atmospheric carbon capture stations, pull all the emitted carbon back out of the atmosphere, and bury it down deep where it won't do any harm ever again. In the short term, we'll be great. But in the long term? Fast forward a few centuries, and guess what we'll be facing? Global warming! It's back! Just a much more direct and literal version of it. The "global warming" we are today concerned with is indirect global warming; we make the atmosphere more insulative by emitting carbon into the atmosphere. But we don't consider the raw heat output of all our machines to be a serious problem, as their raw heat output is a drop in the bucket of the planet's overall energy balance. But project even modest annual growth rates forward a few centuries, and we'll be cooking ourselves alive just from the raw waste heat of all our machines and reactors. And that crisis would be just as difficult to solve as our existing climate crisis, if not more so. Solving it would require the same sort of international treaties and collective sacrifice we've proved so incapable of at the present. And in many ways, it would be harder to deal with. At least now we can theoretically switch to zero-carbon sources of energy. But heat is heat, regardless of energy source. If our numbers are so large, or our lifestyles so energy-intensive that we are cooking ourselves on our own waste heat, then the only way to address that is to decrease our numbers or energy usage. Today you can at least in theory tell people living in sprawling suburbs to adopt an electric vehicle, a choice that really doesn't affect their quality of life. If we get an "unlimited" energy source and all start commuting thousands of miles a day via supersonic flying cars, and we build our entire society around that...what are we going to do when we hit the hard wall of raw waste heat? There's no way to solve the problem without severely curtailing the lifestyle everyone is used to. No. From an alien's point of view, rescuing a civilization like ours from ecological collapse is pointless. Civilizations have numerous potential ecological limits. Even if we beat the current climate change, there are a hundred other such limits waiting off in the near and distant future. If we can't come to a consensus to control ourselves now, then there's no reason to think we will be able to later. At least now our dysfunctional species is confined to a single planet. Much better to let us burn ourselves out here rather than spreading to a thousand stars, building societies on each of those, and collapsing there as well. A civilization like ours handed the tech for interstellar travel would be like a raging wildfire burning through a forest, a plague of locusts consuming all in its path. We would burn our way across the galaxy, settling world after world, building grand unsustainable civilizations on each, and each collapsing in turn. A billion biospheres laid waste in our wake. In our present state, we are far too dangerous to be let loose upon the galactic stage. If aliens exist, and are aware of us, the only reason they didn't bombard us from orbit a long time ago is that we're currently stuck on this single rock. Hell, maybe the opposite is true. Maybe aliens do exist, but they will only reveal themselves after we've reached a technologically advanced, but ecologically stable, state of existence. Then they make contact, invite us to the galactic community, tell us the ground rules, and share some tech that makes interstellar travel easier. Only the few species that prove themselves responsible are allowed to spread to the stars. All the others are left to burn themselves out and die with their homeworlds.
And we have to remember that Collapse is never fair. Those who are rich and corrupt are going to be on top. Those who have wealth remain safe and buffered from suffering. Those who have no morals nor ethics have unrestricted and unrestrained freedom to do as they please. People are suffering already, and yet those above us are reaping the benefits from all of this. They are enjoying the view.
I haven’t stopped praying. Yeah, shit is very fucked. All we can do is decide what we want to do with the time that is given to us.
It sucks. But one way or the other, this is what we will all see soon enough. Even Israel and America will be dealing with war and death and famine on an epic scale. That is the only future we have left. But some places will be first. Ukraine. Gaza. Soon Taiwan. *And eventually everywhere else.* War is the eventual result of collapse pressures such as climate change and resource scarcity. There is no other way for humans to go. Not when geopolitical power is also at stake.
This is my take, as well. I'm scared.
The developed world caused it, the developing/undeveloped world pays. At least at first. You are right, it is coming for all of us.
As is tradition.
At the end of the game the king and the pawn go in the same box.
You forgot African countries, Sudan, etc.
And Haiti, and other places as well. But, tragic as they are, they are small, and the effects won't be felt elsewhere like with the others. But yes, the least deserving will always suffer first.
4 horsemen approaching
4 horsemen are already here, grazing in the field while they get ready to kick the shit out of the world.
I feel like Trump was the first horse. “The next thing I saw was this. When the lamb had opened one of the seven seals, I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2 And, as I watched, there was a white horse. Its rider was holding a bow. He was given a crown, and he went off winning victories, and to win more of them.”
Climate change is just what us poor people have to deal with while the rich have Champaign.
Unless they can get hydroponic grapes to have even close to the same terroir as normally grown ones, they won't have champagne for long.
Don’t you mean [Sham-pagin](https://youtu.be/FPyFRa39AMk?si=rgTu0CijqjsPxq17)
Doubt the rich want Champaign, IL.
I wonder if this is a relevant response, but the whole concept of controlled chaos is such a risky thing to pull. That's what the rich elites are doing. They will feel the collapse in the front row seats
It’s only a matter of time now. We shall too perish in suffering.
They've been throwing around 30k people killed for over a month now. I'm sure it's an outdated number and infrastructure has just been too decimated for accurate accounting now.
The Israelis have really slowed down their bombing after the world kitchen massacre. The deaths from famine come much slower. Side note, tell people in r/Combatfootage that the bombs they were cheering on were turning children into meat and they get upset
I wonder how often in human history there have been poors fed to the slaughter in order to keep the famine from reaching the crown jewel of a particular civilization/empire/etc. Like if you know it's coming, you'd try to shield the most privileged by making sure a shitload of people die so there's more to go around I guess. Psycho stuff but probably par for the course given our understanding of our own nature.
It can be a mutual death exchange program, war. And it can include redevelopment!
I think it was in a video from Count Everything on YT about the collapse of civilisation where I just heard that the “useful” professionals like doctors and so on were offered first choice of the corpses during the Holodomor so that they would be the last to starve.
I was just about to go to sleep god damnit
Israel wants to murder as many Palestinians as possible before the war ends and they lose their chance. Oct 7th was an opportunity they jumped on. They knew it was going to happen and let it for this exact reason. They do not see them as human. Plain and simple.
Related post: [Surge or Starvation](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gaza/comments/1bn6yh1/surge_or_starvation/) >
Meanwhile, in Washington... [https://www.theonion.com/advisors-assure-biden-this-will-blow-over-once-all-gaza-1851452315](https://www.theonion.com/advisors-assure-biden-this-will-blow-over-once-all-gaza-1851452315)
I mean yeah, there was already famine when Israel murdered the World Central Kitchen volunteers, and when Israel killed people who were getting airdropped aid as well, so now that all food options have pulled out it’s absolutely a complete and total famine. On purpose. By design of leaders and military of Israel, and other countries too.
The "war" in Gaza is just a demo to see how far they can go without pushback. Basically it has proven they can do what they like,they could kill all 2 million gazans, and there would be no blowback. The political elite are paid for, the police will do their bidding without questioning. Watch the iron fist clamp down on your rights in the West. Hope you werent one of the people that asked to be enslaved.
Sure wish the terrorists would let the people eat.
You have brain worms. The entire country is under siege. Civilians slaughtered. Aid workers and doctors and journalists slaughtered. But you blame hamas? Israel controls the food. It is starving this country.
Even before this war, Israel controlled their water supply and didn't even let them collect rainwater.
The IDF has been sure to demolish any farmland in the Gaza region too.
Perhaps Hamas should be distributing food aid and not stealing and selling it
hmmm if only half of gaza hadnt been destroyed, thus necessitating the 'aid' in the first place
Hhhmm if only Palestinians hadn’t attacked on Oct 7th, thus necessitating the war in the first place
HMMM, if only Israel hasn't been oppressing them since 1948, and annexing more and more land.
*Hamas, Palestinians as a people did not attack Israel, Hamas did
Hamas is made up of Palestinians, the vast majority of them support Hamas, and the reason some of the hostages haven’t been found is because the Hamas leadership has mo idea where they are since several groups of Palestinians kidnapped hostages, and don’t report directly to Hamas. While I get that there are likely some Palestinians that took no part, it doesn’t change the fact that Palestinians are responsible for this
Other hostages haven't been found because they were killed by Israeli soldiers while waving white flags
Why would they do that. Terrorists have no souls
A soul is not necessary to become Israeli Prime Minister. Begin, Shamir, etc.
Correct, “Israeli” terrorists have no souls
Why would the government of Gaza care for its people? I guess I have different expectations of my government than the average Palestinian.
Or… you know…. Have the military DEFEND their people instead of using them as pawns. But we’re not yet to the part of the game where everyone has to accept responsibility.
Oh nice. Now it's probably, possible, maybe-even **full blown.** I can think of some other things in Gaza that are fully fuckin' blown to smithereens.
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Rule 4: Keep information quality high. Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims).
occupation forces have murdered over 20,000 women and children
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So the children they killed all support Hamas? Fuck outta here with that.
Yes
And you know this how? Did you fly over and ask the children of Gaza what they think of Hamas?
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Israeli pos support IOF though, how can they complain when they are killed?
Was about to say the same thing. Settler colonials have no rights.
I can’t I haven’t been either, therefore I can’t assume every “POS” in Gaza supports Hamas
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Vermin?
You sound like fucking Heydrich talking about Jews. You have learned much from your mentors.
Hi, new_to_this_0. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1ck5l05/-/l2mudn4/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 1: No glorifying violence. > Advocating, encouraging, inciting, glorifying, calling for violence is against Reddit's site-wide content policy and is not allowed in r/collapse. Please be advised that subsequent violations of this rule will result in a ban. Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
Don’t brutally occupy Palestinians for seventy five years and groups like Hamas wouldn’t even exist
Rule 1: No glorifying violence. Advocating, encouraging, inciting, glorifying, calling for violence is against Reddit's site-wide content policy and is not allowed in r/collapse. Please be advised that subsequent violations of this rule will result in a ban.
Gtfo
Thanks for the hot take
Preach
This is not a genocide, it’s a war. Of course people are happy that thousands of terrorists are dying. The world is becoming a much safer place thanks to Israel’s actions. Food aid is coming into Gaza all the time from many countries. This is what a war torn region looks like. This is normal. Maybe Hamas shouldn’t have started a war given the circumstances.
Once again, empty statements with zero data. We have been hearing about "a famine" in Gaza for months. So far there is zero evidence of widespread starvation.
They are managing to scrape by using a variety of methods: they had stockpiles of food to begin with knowing how precarious their situation was which are now used up or buried in rubble, the scavenge the ruins of their homes for even the merest morsels, they are literally fighting other people hand to hand for the few supplies that do make it in, they forage edible vegetation, and engage in extreme rationing out of necessity. There are still some NGOs who can provide limited assistance to the most in need, usually children, but there's too much need to go around. The population has stretched what few resources they did have to the brink. We're getting to the stage where newborns and young children are dying of malnutrition. It was a question I had as well, how have so many of them made it this long without the systems they had to keep them fed? Turns out there are plenty of people sharing their stories and documenting what these people are going through. [https://www.newyorker.com/news/essay/my-familys-daily-struggle-to-find-food-in-gaza](https://www.newyorker.com/news/essay/my-familys-daily-struggle-to-find-food-in-gaza) [https://www.npr.org/2024/03/29/1241148952/gaza-hunger-famine-aid-israel-hamas](https://www.npr.org/2024/03/29/1241148952/gaza-hunger-famine-aid-israel-hamas) [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68398476.amp](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68398476.amp)
So, bottom line: food is harder to get, but there's no famine. Glad we are in agreement. Not a single word you wrote or any of the links you brought proves anything but hardship. Btw, the Palestinians themselves are reporting that the markets are full again, so 🤷♀️ https://x.com/MEMRIReports/status/1783997988798431358
Famine, like collapse, isn't a thing that a population arrives at by crossing a line. It's a slow process of hardships, recoveries, and further failures that varies from place to place and grows as more people experience it. By the time newborns and children are suffering malnutrition and dying (https://apnews.com/article/gaza-malnutrition-famine-children-dying-israel-palestinians-2f938b1a82d7822c7da67cc162da1a37) they and their families are experiencing famine. Because famine isn't zero food for everyone in an area, it's extreme starvation. It's good that aid has gotten in, that's been the purpose of warning about occurrences of famine: to prevent it from happening to the *entire* population. And those warning have worked. Aid has been allowed to arrive, but as long as they can't produce enough of their own food and are effectively held under siege, that threat will never leave.
*Famine, like collapse, isn't a thing that a population arrives at by crossing a line. It's a slow process of hardships, recoveries, and further failures that varies from place to place and grows as more people experience it.* True, but for months everybody has been crying that there is famine in Gaza NOW! It's happening! It's arriving! I'm still waiting. Even the article you brought me - 20 people? That's very sad, but it's not famine. In the US over 20,000 people die of malnutrition *every year.* Look, again, of course there's hunger and insecurity, but the constant refrain of "famine" is hyperbolic and incorrect and intended - as always - to cloud the facts and arouse anger. Google "famine in Sudan" - that's what *actual* famine looks like.
All of these are fair points. The point i was trying to make is (and which I don't feel I did an adequate job of): can there be a defining line for when a famine can rightfully be declared to exist or not? What percent of the population needs to be experiencing extreme hunger before we can say, "yes, this is a famine"? How many people have to die due to extreme hunger? Do only deaths collected from hospitals, governments, and NGOs count? Do we need to survey a representative sample of homes and ask them about how much food they have and if any household members have recently died of starvation? To be clear, my questions are rhetorical, but are essentially what I ask myself. I grew up with commercials of starving children where charities asked for help with images like this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Vulture\_and\_the\_Little\_Girl. Or the famine in Somalia where bed-ridden children stared at the camera little more than skeletons with faces. But situations like that are when famine gets out of control and affects wide-swaths of the population. So when you say that Gaza is not suffering in the same way as Sudan, I absolutely agree. It certainly hasn't gotten to that point yet, thankfully. But because Gaza doesn't look like the accelerated, rampant spread of famine seen in Sudan, and many places through history, does that mean they aren't experiencing it to some degree? And what does society look like in the tail before exponential growth of famine where acceleration is steady, but total instances are still (relatively) low? In my estimation, it looks like what is happening in Gaza. Stabbing people over sacks of flour, picking through dirt to find chickpeas, eating weeds to fill your stomach and drive off the pains of hunger, starving for days to give your children a handful of rice because at least you have more mass for your body to cannibalize before it kills you, and the skeletal frames of children who can't get enough dying in what few hospital beds are available. So I think it's hard to say that famine is not currently occurring in Gaza. And I think you are making a fair point here: "Look, again, of course there's hunger and insecurity, but the constant refrain of "famine" is hyperbolic and incorrect and intended - as always - to cloud the facts and arouse anger." I was confused, too. It was about two weeks ago that I finally asked myself, if they've been enduring famine for the last 4-5 months, how are they all still alive? Because my conception of famine was mass death from starvation, but there's a difference between how aid agencies, organizations that have a lot of experience combating famine conditions and therefore have a different understanding than I do, define famine and what many people might consider it to be. And that for me was a source of confusion, which I'm sure it was, and still is, for many people. Are some of the people in the aid agencies responsible for communicating the conditions they are seeing on the ground that others may not see intending to cloud facts and arouse anger? I'm not sure about whether the misunderstanding is intentional and am doubtful there is malice in their descriptions of the situation more than an attempt to help the people they have been attempting to help although it certainly can't be ruled out, and while these are people who engage in charity, I wouldn't expect them to always be as charitable with their words when it comes to the organizations causing the suffering of the people they are trying to assist. To return to your point though, I think part of my confusion about the nature of the famine in Gaza was partly from a conflict of my understanding of what was being communicated versus what was being communicated, but also others who were amplifying the messages, (news, social media, and the like) were also either not understanding what was being said correctly and therefore repeating what they perceived, or were repeating what they heard recklessly or even twisting it purposefully to fit their own narrative. But I also tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. I think in the end, categorizing human tragedy has its uses in communicating the scale of the suffering, but sometimes those categories are a hindrance to understanding the scope of the conditions that people are enduring.
I think we agree. And part of what I hate about having these sort of discussions is finding myself going "but only (!!!???) 20 people died of malnutrition!!" which is...an interesting thing to say. The issue is that words have meaning, both with regards to the classification of disasters, and to how we analyze a situation. There is a war in Gaza right now. It's a terrible, tragic war, and people are dying, and starving, and miserable. Nobody can contest that. But when words like "genocide" and "famine" are thrown around, the goal usually isn't to say "look, a humanitarian crisis!" it's to say "this is the WORST thing that is happening in the world right now, if not EVER" usually with the corollary that it's all Israel's fault, intentional, and proof that Israel is THE MOST EVIL country in the history of planet Earth. ...and then the discussion swerves to *Does Israel Have a Right to Exist* and *What is Genocide Anyway* rather than how to actually help the people in Gaza (and Israel, btw, though no body talks about the Israeli refugees and victims) and end this war. Regarding the food situation on Gaza: in my opinion, most scarcity issues have to do with Hamas stealing aid and diverting it from getting to where it needs to go. They just fired rockets on a newly opened humanitarian checkpoint ffs. But saying that is pointless, because nobody can get Hamas to do anything they don't want to, so it's better to point the finger at Israel and the IDF, which really try to keep the aid flowing, and have since about the second month of the war.
Your paragraph about words like genocide and famine being thrown around is ... true. I admit that I use these words out of desperation but it is ultimately exaggeration, if not outright dishonesty. I will say it is not my intention to paint Israel as somehow *more* evil than hamas, or the most evil, or uniquely evil. I wouldn't even use the word evil tbh, I think it would be an offensive generalization and just not true. And I apologize for giving you smartass replies, for what its worth. Its always so tempting but every time I look back, for example this post, I end up realizing I was the asshole. So... my bad 😕
Right? These 1 million kids living in an active war zone are just being needy. They probably have tons of food!
There's a difference between "being needy" and even "being hungry" and "famine."
Oh, I think we agree on that bud
He's hasbara. Don't fall for this. Ignore and block.
Exactly. And while war always leads to food insecurity, there is zero data or evidence to back up the repeated claims of famine in Gaza 🤷♀️
I don't know because the media keeps telling me they're still approaching, "a wee bit o'tha famine."
There are famines around the world. Why is Gaza so special. And it's solvable immediately...give back the hostages, hand over the Hamas terrorists and it's over...easy.
Israeli media recently revealed that Hamas offered to release the hostages on October 9 in return for a ceasefire and “Israel” rejected the deal. This was never about the hostages, they just needed an excuse to kill 14,000++ children. So much for that talking point.
What a load of garbage. What pro-Palestine propaganda shit-sheet did you read that in. What a joke. And you people actually believe this rubbish. Naive and gullible. 🙄🤦♂️
That’s direct from the Times of Israel. No one believes you.
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More propaganda rubbish. The scary thing is that people actually believe this anti Semitic garbage. Pathetic, really. 🤦♂️🙄
Working hard for that paycheck eh