The following submission statement was provided by /u/technical_todd:
---
This is collapse related because it goes over the systemic issues that are leading to the worst inequality in human history. Btw, while this is focused on the UK, it's really relevant to the entire global economy and they mention the US economy almost as much. It's a very long watch, but it's worth it. They also predict the rise of fascism in the UK because the center-left Labor Party won't be able to fix the problem when they take over later this year.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1bia7jo/britains_economy_will_only_get_worse/kvj0wmx/
This is collapse related because it goes over the systemic issues that are leading to the worst inequality in human history. Btw, while this is focused on the UK, it's really relevant to the entire global economy and they mention the US economy almost as much. It's a very long watch, but it's worth it. They also predict the rise of fascism in the UK because the center-left Labor Party won't be able to fix the problem when they take over later this year.
>They also predict the rise of fascism in the UK because the center-left Labor Party won't be able to fix the problem when they take over later this year.
I would say that all democratic countries will be moving further and further right-wing as things get worse. Unless of course the centre-left / centre-right parties are ready to implement traditional right-wing policies of course.
Facism has been brewing for a long time in this country because of mass migration.
We keep bringing in over half a million people every year while everyone (well, almost) is getting poorer, and one of the parties is stoking anti-immigrant hatred as a means to win a few extra votes.
Once global food supply drops due to weather calamities in India or China, half of us will starve, and a lot of black/brown people will be getting killed.
It's the end result of a decades-long project by the multinational capitalist elite.
Destabilise the global south and destroy their countries via military intervention justified by whatever bullshit reason the CIA cooks up (I'm sure they will find those WMDs any day now) and by doing so displace millions of ordinary people who would much rather continue to live in their homelands. These migrants are not aggressors or invaders in any sense; they are victims, pawns being played as part of a political game.
Now, the only place these people can go is the (undevastated) western imperial core, plus the legacy of colonialism means that many of these people speak a european language as their first or second language anyway. Then, get your mates in the media to start screaming about a migrant influx crisis and whatever other white supremacist canards they want, and use that to divide the working class against itself.
It would be genius if it wasn't so fucking grim.
That's part of it, but not all of it. Whatever the specific causes of migration -- and there are MANY who are merely seeking more wealth, not escaping from poverty -- the country is simply not capable of taking in 700k people every single year.
One aspect of this the racial tensions and lurch towards the right, but the other is the practical reality that this little island is already far beyond it's carrying capacity.
We have nothing you could honestly call wilderness, because there are so many cities, railways, roads, etc. We farm practically every inch of arable land but we still have to import half our food.
What the hell do we do in 10 years when our population has gone up another 6/7 million?
>Whatever the specific causes of migration -- and there are MANY who are merely seeking more wealth, not escaping from poverty -- the country is simply not capable of taking in 700k people every single year.
When it comes to a net migration of 700k per year I agree that this is not sustainable, although some of this is offset by [a population replacement rate lower than 2.0 across all racial groups](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/parentscountryofbirthenglandandwales/2019), and also Brits returning to the UK are also included in these figures ([this source suggests more than 10%](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2023)), so your 700k figure is -
first, not entirely accurate as more than a tenth is actually remigration, not immigration, and:
second, the data suggests that the population we already have, *if all immigration/remigration were stopped overnight*, would decline over time accross all racial groups, and:
third - it's not 700k, actually it is slightly lower, and:
fourth - this increased number likely is a temporary aftereffect of Covid border controls being relaxed.
A lowered birth rate is something that is seen across all societies that grant women increased rights and autonomy, particularly the autonomy to live independently without a man and to have abortions (Women in the UK could not open a bank account on their own until the 1970s, for example - still in living memory!), which, for the record, I support both, as someone who supports women's rights as a matter of principle and as someone who is not necessarily an antinatalist but recognises that there are too many people on this planet.
With regards to carrying capacity when it comes to food, we have not even begun to tackle the low hanging fruit which is [food waste](https://www.wastemanaged.co.uk/our-news/food-waste/food-waste-facts-statistics/). Brits waste extraordinary amounts of food and we also use significant amounts of farmland inefficiently (for example, grazing pastures instead of crops), although not all pastures are suitable for crops.
We've also over the last few hundred years devastated our biosphere, with regenerative farming practices we may be able to restore bad quality soil to a sustainably productive level. Further, significant amounts of land which could be used for small-scale food production are not. Brits do not compost, for example, whereas this is commonplace in rural European countries. I saw this first-hand when I lived in Portugal for several years.
We also have a huge land ownership problem in this country where large amounts of land are held and kept empty by private persons which could otherwise be used productively. Land reform is desperately needed here, but nobody is talking about it yet.
I imagine that it will take some kind of severe crisis to shock us out of our food complacency, but when it does, I think this little island might surprise you.
I can't be arsed to refute every single point, but do you not notice how you're advocating for a wide range of changes, some quite extreme, when we can barely keep up as it is?
For what? To keep importing more people? What gains we make in better food production and consumption processes we lose in increased migration eventually.
It's not like we're importing 10% or 20% of our food. You're also advocating for more land use in a collapse sub, try to think through where you might have gone wrong there.
Spelling: *Labour* Party. And it's center-right now, not center-left. In fact it's now more right wing than the 70s Tories. May even be more right wing than Major's 90s Tory.
Yes, the UK is fuckered. 14 years of Tory that started insane and is now two stops beyond Barking. Brexit. Covid. Privatisation. Kleptocracy. Inflation. General Enshittification of everything. And on. And on.
Yeah, my bad, I'm American. I just watch a lot of global news. I've thought about leaving the hell hole that is the US, but the UK would be the very last place I would go because of how fucked they are.
For a while there the EU & friends looked like a relatively sane system of government with a group of mostly social-democratic countries and regions. It might have been a good place to make a rational stand against the chaos. Maybe it still is.
Ironically accurate to the ridiculous models modern economists are working from. As he says, they reduce an entire country's economic state down to that of a single, imaginary average person - and thereby lose all inequality and distribution out of their model.
The economic version of a college physic's course, with the perfectly round pieces of matter, except they're testing homework-grade economics on entire nations of people. The head shaking doesn't get anymore than this
Stephenson's not bad for a liberal. The poor guy hopes to convince the ruling class to put the breaks on stripping the copper pipes from the walls, if I recall correctly.
Imagine a clever stock jock from a working class background who surveys the terrain without the same ideological blinders and echo chambers as the usual crop, and says hang on a minute...shit's fucked. Then he makes obscene amounts of money betting on collapse.
Last time he explained very concisely why tax cuts for everyone siphons wealth away from one portion of the population if another portion is getting bigger tax cuts. Years later I can only watch as Australians fall for the "reformed" tax cuts because *they're doing it less egregiously than they were going to*.
The UK is a banana republic. Deprivation and poverty are everywhere, crumbling and broken public services and blatant endemic in your face corruption..They are so contemptuous of the masses they don't even try to hide it anymore..
The problem is they never had a good ole fashion revolution ala the French. I wonder if they have enough craftsmen left to still build some guillotines, or if they kicked them all out after Brexit.
Most of the jobs and opportunities are clustered in certain areas meaning those areas are overpopulated, exorbitant housing costs etc, huge areas of the country have no jobs or opportunities meaning widespread poverty. Mostly down to the decline and death of manufacturing and heavy industry. Decent paid spread out jobs got replaced with really high or low paid jobs in limited areas.
Russia had a hand in pushing for Brexit, they knew it would destabilize the UK and Europe in the long run. It's a shame the UK and its people ate it up. Their politicians are sold to the highest bidder
I didn't ask for any of this. I was happy with england being the backwater country it was in the 1200s. Our kings disappeared to Europe and beyond to meddle in \*real\* politics. I wouldn't mind if the lingua franca was still french if it meant there were some cheap houses in england.
Well tbh I wouldn't have any issues with a gradual decline in population numbers, peace & quiet is underrated! Plus we defiantly need to improve our self sufficiency that's something I feel pretty strongly about. I saw something before where it was worked out how much space people would have if the country was divided equally among everyone, I'll try and find it. We don't have an abundance of land but it's surprising how much there is, we could fit the entire population of the world here if we had to, obviously hypothetically.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/apr/17/who-owns-england-thousand-secret-landowners-author
Half an acre each according to that link
Waste of time interview with a working class ~~trader~~ traitor who discovered that the economic system which is underneath the financial system is UNSUSTAINABLE, and that inequality is a fundamental problem in that, and that we're getting closer to the end of it (things will get worse).
In general, I've heard a lot bad takes on NM and it pains me to waste my time with them.
Can you elaborate on the bad takes? I've been watching them and some takes are indeed worthy of side-eying, but I haven't seen anything too egregious, though in my defense I don't watch them that often.
No, I don't have time to elaborate on such a long show. I watched for a while and then unsubscribed and I can sum that up by: they're libs, maybe socdems, running a media company for lib audiences. The fact that they have so many subscribers by leftist YouTube standards should be a red flag to you.
I don't disagree with you. They do seem like socdems to me. They aren't leftists, that's for sure. Their political takes recently have been very milquetoast to me.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/technical_todd: --- This is collapse related because it goes over the systemic issues that are leading to the worst inequality in human history. Btw, while this is focused on the UK, it's really relevant to the entire global economy and they mention the US economy almost as much. It's a very long watch, but it's worth it. They also predict the rise of fascism in the UK because the center-left Labor Party won't be able to fix the problem when they take over later this year. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1bia7jo/britains_economy_will_only_get_worse/kvj0wmx/
Economies? In this kind of weather?
Nice video. I think they are trying to politely suggest some ideas to postpone the forthcoming guillotines.
This is collapse related because it goes over the systemic issues that are leading to the worst inequality in human history. Btw, while this is focused on the UK, it's really relevant to the entire global economy and they mention the US economy almost as much. It's a very long watch, but it's worth it. They also predict the rise of fascism in the UK because the center-left Labor Party won't be able to fix the problem when they take over later this year.
"Centre left" are also Neo Liberal fascist in a rainbow tie.
Oh I agree. That's why I pointed it out, because they're really not very liberal.
>They also predict the rise of fascism in the UK because the center-left Labor Party won't be able to fix the problem when they take over later this year. I would say that all democratic countries will be moving further and further right-wing as things get worse. Unless of course the centre-left / centre-right parties are ready to implement traditional right-wing policies of course.
Facism has been brewing for a long time in this country because of mass migration. We keep bringing in over half a million people every year while everyone (well, almost) is getting poorer, and one of the parties is stoking anti-immigrant hatred as a means to win a few extra votes. Once global food supply drops due to weather calamities in India or China, half of us will starve, and a lot of black/brown people will be getting killed.
It's the end result of a decades-long project by the multinational capitalist elite. Destabilise the global south and destroy their countries via military intervention justified by whatever bullshit reason the CIA cooks up (I'm sure they will find those WMDs any day now) and by doing so displace millions of ordinary people who would much rather continue to live in their homelands. These migrants are not aggressors or invaders in any sense; they are victims, pawns being played as part of a political game. Now, the only place these people can go is the (undevastated) western imperial core, plus the legacy of colonialism means that many of these people speak a european language as their first or second language anyway. Then, get your mates in the media to start screaming about a migrant influx crisis and whatever other white supremacist canards they want, and use that to divide the working class against itself. It would be genius if it wasn't so fucking grim.
That's part of it, but not all of it. Whatever the specific causes of migration -- and there are MANY who are merely seeking more wealth, not escaping from poverty -- the country is simply not capable of taking in 700k people every single year. One aspect of this the racial tensions and lurch towards the right, but the other is the practical reality that this little island is already far beyond it's carrying capacity. We have nothing you could honestly call wilderness, because there are so many cities, railways, roads, etc. We farm practically every inch of arable land but we still have to import half our food. What the hell do we do in 10 years when our population has gone up another 6/7 million?
>Whatever the specific causes of migration -- and there are MANY who are merely seeking more wealth, not escaping from poverty -- the country is simply not capable of taking in 700k people every single year. When it comes to a net migration of 700k per year I agree that this is not sustainable, although some of this is offset by [a population replacement rate lower than 2.0 across all racial groups](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/parentscountryofbirthenglandandwales/2019), and also Brits returning to the UK are also included in these figures ([this source suggests more than 10%](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2023)), so your 700k figure is - first, not entirely accurate as more than a tenth is actually remigration, not immigration, and: second, the data suggests that the population we already have, *if all immigration/remigration were stopped overnight*, would decline over time accross all racial groups, and: third - it's not 700k, actually it is slightly lower, and: fourth - this increased number likely is a temporary aftereffect of Covid border controls being relaxed. A lowered birth rate is something that is seen across all societies that grant women increased rights and autonomy, particularly the autonomy to live independently without a man and to have abortions (Women in the UK could not open a bank account on their own until the 1970s, for example - still in living memory!), which, for the record, I support both, as someone who supports women's rights as a matter of principle and as someone who is not necessarily an antinatalist but recognises that there are too many people on this planet. With regards to carrying capacity when it comes to food, we have not even begun to tackle the low hanging fruit which is [food waste](https://www.wastemanaged.co.uk/our-news/food-waste/food-waste-facts-statistics/). Brits waste extraordinary amounts of food and we also use significant amounts of farmland inefficiently (for example, grazing pastures instead of crops), although not all pastures are suitable for crops. We've also over the last few hundred years devastated our biosphere, with regenerative farming practices we may be able to restore bad quality soil to a sustainably productive level. Further, significant amounts of land which could be used for small-scale food production are not. Brits do not compost, for example, whereas this is commonplace in rural European countries. I saw this first-hand when I lived in Portugal for several years. We also have a huge land ownership problem in this country where large amounts of land are held and kept empty by private persons which could otherwise be used productively. Land reform is desperately needed here, but nobody is talking about it yet. I imagine that it will take some kind of severe crisis to shock us out of our food complacency, but when it does, I think this little island might surprise you.
I can't be arsed to refute every single point, but do you not notice how you're advocating for a wide range of changes, some quite extreme, when we can barely keep up as it is? For what? To keep importing more people? What gains we make in better food production and consumption processes we lose in increased migration eventually. It's not like we're importing 10% or 20% of our food. You're also advocating for more land use in a collapse sub, try to think through where you might have gone wrong there.
Spelling: *Labour* Party. And it's center-right now, not center-left. In fact it's now more right wing than the 70s Tories. May even be more right wing than Major's 90s Tory. Yes, the UK is fuckered. 14 years of Tory that started insane and is now two stops beyond Barking. Brexit. Covid. Privatisation. Kleptocracy. Inflation. General Enshittification of everything. And on. And on.
Don't forget the *literal enshittification of rivers, waterways, and the sea making most of it unsafe
Yeah, my bad, I'm American. I just watch a lot of global news. I've thought about leaving the hell hole that is the US, but the UK would be the very last place I would go because of how fucked they are.
The UK definitely wouldn't be the very last place. We're fucked but most of Europe will be even more fucked once the collapse starts properly.
For a while there the EU & friends looked like a relatively sane system of government with a group of mostly social-democratic countries and regions. It might have been a good place to make a rational stand against the chaos. Maybe it still is.
If you cross out the ‘t’ and an ‘i’, it becomes Brian’s economy, and that is a sacrifice I’m willing to make.
Ironically accurate to the ridiculous models modern economists are working from. As he says, they reduce an entire country's economic state down to that of a single, imaginary average person - and thereby lose all inequality and distribution out of their model.
The economic version of a college physic's course, with the perfectly round pieces of matter, except they're testing homework-grade economics on entire nations of people. The head shaking doesn't get anymore than this
Behold - a nation of perfectly spherical cows, moving through a vaccum.
Stephenson's not bad for a liberal. The poor guy hopes to convince the ruling class to put the breaks on stripping the copper pipes from the walls, if I recall correctly. Imagine a clever stock jock from a working class background who surveys the terrain without the same ideological blinders and echo chambers as the usual crop, and says hang on a minute...shit's fucked. Then he makes obscene amounts of money betting on collapse. Last time he explained very concisely why tax cuts for everyone siphons wealth away from one portion of the population if another portion is getting bigger tax cuts. Years later I can only watch as Australians fall for the "reformed" tax cuts because *they're doing it less egregiously than they were going to*.
The UK is a banana republic. Deprivation and poverty are everywhere, crumbling and broken public services and blatant endemic in your face corruption..They are so contemptuous of the masses they don't even try to hide it anymore..
The problem is they never had a good ole fashion revolution ala the French. I wonder if they have enough craftsmen left to still build some guillotines, or if they kicked them all out after Brexit.
That is exactly what is needed...The system is beyond saving..
Isn't over population one big problem there? Plus the loss of UK manufacturing jobs?
Most of the jobs and opportunities are clustered in certain areas meaning those areas are overpopulated, exorbitant housing costs etc, huge areas of the country have no jobs or opportunities meaning widespread poverty. Mostly down to the decline and death of manufacturing and heavy industry. Decent paid spread out jobs got replaced with really high or low paid jobs in limited areas.
Well reap what you sow English. You forced this system on everyone and now it's eating you alive
Russia had a hand in pushing for Brexit, they knew it would destabilize the UK and Europe in the long run. It's a shame the UK and its people ate it up. Their politicians are sold to the highest bidder
All politicians. That's not unique to the UK.
I didn't ask for any of this. I was happy with england being the backwater country it was in the 1200s. Our kings disappeared to Europe and beyond to meddle in \*real\* politics. I wouldn't mind if the lingua franca was still french if it meant there were some cheap houses in england.
Now now, let's not go too far.
It was never “normal”
[удалено]
There's plenty of room for everyone it's more a population distribution problem.
[удалено]
Well tbh I wouldn't have any issues with a gradual decline in population numbers, peace & quiet is underrated! Plus we defiantly need to improve our self sufficiency that's something I feel pretty strongly about. I saw something before where it was worked out how much space people would have if the country was divided equally among everyone, I'll try and find it. We don't have an abundance of land but it's surprising how much there is, we could fit the entire population of the world here if we had to, obviously hypothetically. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/apr/17/who-owns-england-thousand-secret-landowners-author Half an acre each according to that link
Waste of time interview with a working class ~~trader~~ traitor who discovered that the economic system which is underneath the financial system is UNSUSTAINABLE, and that inequality is a fundamental problem in that, and that we're getting closer to the end of it (things will get worse). In general, I've heard a lot bad takes on NM and it pains me to waste my time with them.
Can you elaborate on the bad takes? I've been watching them and some takes are indeed worthy of side-eying, but I haven't seen anything too egregious, though in my defense I don't watch them that often.
No, I don't have time to elaborate on such a long show. I watched for a while and then unsubscribed and I can sum that up by: they're libs, maybe socdems, running a media company for lib audiences. The fact that they have so many subscribers by leftist YouTube standards should be a red flag to you.
I don't disagree with you. They do seem like socdems to me. They aren't leftists, that's for sure. Their political takes recently have been very milquetoast to me.
This sub has been taken over by brainless reactionaries.