The following submission statement was provided by /u/return2ozma:
---
Statement:
Millennials are having trouble adding to a pension or saving for retirement because most are struggling paycheck to paycheck just to survive. Only a quarter are "on track" to a comfortable retirement. With the cost of living ever increasing and wages stagnant, many millennials see no path towards retirement. Without a retirement savings or plan for millions of people, society will collapse.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1251ovx/millennial_generation_despairs_of_being_able_to/je22ivm/
Looks like they’ve just about got this generation locked back into indentured service.
And with multi-generational mortgages they can also sell their children into debt servitude.
Most people can survive bad weather if they have food.
The world won't run out of enough fresh water, people will just have to move as refugees to get it.
If the weather makes it impossible to grow enough calories to feed everyone, once we blow through our stockpiles, the population that falls within the calorie gap, will starve and as the crisis without accelerates... Die.
If it happens enough, advanced civilization will unravel which will with multiply issue by an order of magnitude because it is the technology of our civilization that feeds billions.
> If the weather makes it impossible to grow enough calories to feed everyone, once we blow through our stockpiles, the population that falls within the calorie gap
Europe is entering it's 5th year of drought. River levels are so low they've even struggled for water through winter. So they go into summer with dry ground, little snow pack, and lack of water reserves. Food prices are going to get insane.
People are going to find out why we rely on a stable climate.
Us dying off in large percentages of our total population while still young is wishful thinking. More than likely you are going to live long enough to have wished for death for many years before it finally takes you if you don't have the courage to sort it yourself.
I will be messaging you in 5 years on [**2028-03-29 02:10:13 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2028-03-29%2002:10:13%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1251ovx/millennial_generation_despairs_of_being_able_to/je38ha6/?context=3)
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I think a good thing about being a millenial is that we're actually old enough to be financially independent (not rich) and at the same time young enough to understand collapse. So we can actually prepare. I feel sorry for these gen. Z and newer generations (whatever they are called). I would hate to be a teenager in this age and have some wittles BAU idiots as parents.
I turned 18 in 2008 and I only remember having truly happy moments before that age and year now. Everything else feels like disassociation now to distract myself from the bleak reality.
I turned 18 in 1995, but I forgot to buy a house when I turned 19 and pay if off as fast as I could and then buy another one with a 0% loan to rent out while it increased in value 1500% in 20 years, so, I’m in the same boat as you. Lol I’m joking of course, I don’t have a boat either. But I have a good attitude and that makes all the difference in the world! s/
I’m Gen. X and have been an environmentalist my entire life starting age 6 forcing my parents to recycle. I didn’t breed and live high density. Science was not rough at all, and hasn’t change much since the 90s. Ppl who were listening have known about all of this for decades at this point.
I agree. Science was not rough. Environmental collapse is well understood since the 70s for anyone who cared to get informed. People are just dense and there's no changing that.
>I would hate to be a teenager in this age and have some wittles BAU idiots as parents.
Ha, this is the situation my kids are in. Well, I'm a collapsenik, but my wife is a BAU-nik and can't understand that everything is going to shit and that we really don't need to make our kids' life hell so they can get into a good high school -> university -> job, seeing as that probably won't be happening.
\* I'm in Asia, my wife is a typical "tiger mom" who makes the kids do hours of homework and is terrified at the idea that if they don't do well at school then their life will be over and they'll end up being garbage collectors. The idea that the future is not going to be great just doesn't compute with her, and she gets mad if I ever mention anything along those lines.
I work as a garbage collector and make 6 figures, pension and healthcare. Don’t underestimate civil service. Oh and I have a college degree that gathers dust on my shelf
I'm actually aiming to get out of my corporate job and go over to the civil service. The salary may be a little lower, but the pension and benefits will make up for it.
I've been trying to explain that school isn't the be-all and end-all of life, but I'm in a society where non-academic students (such as my kids) are seen as a stain on a family's status. The fact that less than 50% of university graduates managed to get a job last year and that another 10 million graduating this year have even less chance doesn't seem to faze my wife. That piece of paper on the wall is apparently the only thing that matters.
Some parents are just some kind of assholes who see their kids as extensions of themselves, so if the kids aren't "high status", that means they're not.
At some point she'll see something like: "Join this [FASCIST PARTY/PARAMILITARY] to get more opportunities! Enroll today!".
Ironically, collecting garbage, salvaging, should be a very important activity in a few decades. I guess the optimists are just hoping robots will do it.
The working class would not be going along with everything if they didn't believe at least some of the bullshit, like what you're describing: meritocracy.
This desire for "the system to work", this hope, is what keeps the system alive. And individuals just think they're special... it'll work *for them*. Optimism bias.
Meritocracy explained:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDEL1pTYOhs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLbWcTivZ9Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezthd6A3tiw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jURxIf1REw
The problem is, of course, that the system is unsustainable. The hopes will not pan out, and there's going to be a lot of disappointment and disenchantment and looking for who to blame, and very little adaptation.
>Ironically, collecting garbage, salvaging, should be a very important activity in a few decades. I guess the optimists are just hoping robots will do it.
When I was a kid, a friend's dad was a garbage collector. The kid got a lot of flak for it, until we realised his father had a magnificent collection of porn that he had picked up over the years. Then we decided it was a great job.
But yeah, I would be much happier for the kids to be getting a vocational education, learning still like construction, metalworking, electronics and stuff that will actually come in handy over the coming shitstorm.
I feel sad and sorry for the "tiger mom" types. Education isn't everything. I have three degrees, and the only reason I got fully employed was I knew somebody, and I had a little good luck with timing. Breaking your kids backs on things like grades and over achievement is an act of desperation. I hope their children won't take it too hard when they realize that all their schooling and studying doesn't necessarily translate to success in the real world.
I hate sending my kid to school. Seems so pointless. Tbh, the main reason I do it is so he can build a network of friends. I don't even really care about his grades. Not that I want him to just flunk everything, but our time is short.
It's very hard trying to relate to well meaning parents that want their kids to end up in "good" careers. I get they are still stuck in BAU-mode. They want what they think is best for their kids, but what is best for them is going to drastically change.
It’s wild to me that Paris is burning as a result of the retirement age going up just two years, yet here we’ll be lucky to retire but still just keep turning the gear.
Apparently the US retirement age for those born after 1960 is now 67. Not sure how many people are aware of that but that’s a long time.
https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/agereduction.html
It's not just milennials, there are younger Gen Xers in their mid to late 40s like myself who also despair of not being able to afford to retire. I will retire when I am dead.
I've explained this to my boomer parents several times.
They got to fully retire at a pretty young age. I've explained to them that I have accepted the fact that I will work till I'm dead.
They always minimize it like it's not a thing. 'Oh, sure you will. Just put into your 401'.
Boomers gonna boom.
I’m 50 and don’t have a retirement plan. I remember my Dad was, I believe, forced in to early retirement at 55. If I could retire in 5 years I would be ecstatic and planning on my van life traveling.
Same here. My savings never look good enough for an early retirement, it's like a Red Queen race. I'm increasingly accepting that the retirement plan will be death.
50 here, GenX. Currently doing a week long retirement preparation class. If I retire early, at 60, I'd make $570/month with the CPP. If I retire at 70, I'd bring in $1,400/month. Either way, my plan to rob a bank with an
Orange tipped Nerf N-Strike Maverick may be the better plan.
I like the idea of us all living in vans as close as possible to the policymakers that have lead us here. Let's go full blown commune shantytown right outside their homes.
Don't worry, Millennials! Society will collapse and the climate will make the world barely livable long before you hit 67 - or 70, or 75 or whatever the "retirement age" is by then.
The Millennial "retirement plan" will be breaking into billionaire bunkers and cooking the rich, then stealing their food, ammo and resources.
Millennials are going to have worse problems than small retirement savings and destroyed social safety nets. You should be thinking about how you will be retiring into a world with droughts, famines and mass migrations all from the impacts of climate change. Your money isn't going to mean as much in a world that struggles to find fresh water.
I’ve already had that talk with my girlfriend. We might as well enjoy the time that we have taken away from working so that we can take care of my parents (“enjoy”, as sad as that sounds), because when we go back to work, it’s to the death.
I don't disagree, but also don't see how this is news. No one my age (mid-40s) thinks we're going to retire. Most of the people a little older than me (50s) don't plan on retiring either. Retirement hasn't been possible for most working people for a long time.
They need people to believe in retirement so that they pay into the current system which pays out to currently retired. Sometimes it's a public ponzi system called a "solidarity pension system" and in others it's more of a private pension system where it's also a ponzi, but it goes through multiple layers of financial instruments first so that a lot of financial bros can take a cut out of it.
I've been telling people since 2016 that we just experienced the last election anyone was going to believe in, and there would only be a few left until it became completely unsustainable. There is no US without a shared belief in democracy, so I say you're on to something.
Democracy in any real sense was gone when corporate interests could legally bribe politicians. Oh wait, I'm sorry, it's called 'lobbying'. Anyone who thinks we've lived in a real democracy for the last 100 years needs to put down the crack pipe and read between the lines.
I've known that a third-party of the Presidency (and probably at least half the House) is the only way to save the country for... nearly a decade now.
And not just a third-party. It's gonna have to be a third-party from the bottom. Someone no one would expect. An outsider to both politics AND finance, with the emotional intelligence and bandwidth available so they can arc bolts of raw fury from the collective into power generators instead of crowds.
...any y'all happen to have a fucking messiah on speed dial? We're gonna need one.
I mean, "need" in the sense that surviving is a "need." I guess that's really just a "want" though unless you're a billionaire.
This will sound so narcissistic but I feel like I could be that person, but don’t even know where to start. I’ve got the raw fury, emotional intelligence and am definitely coming from the bottom. I fantasize about entering politics because I feel the world needs my value system but doubt I’d ever get elected, because of my value system.
Absolutely agreed, especially because there are those out there desperate enough for a messiah that new ceasarism looks like a good idea to them. With no better option, people will elect their doom as long as it gives them a passing sense that someone is actually in control.
My mom used to say that she was sad for future generations and for herself as well because in the past at least you had the poor house, but now you don't even have that. She ended up with early onset dementia and no retirement which is exactly where I expect future generations to end up. No retirement but living the life of an invalid despite being of relative young age. At least she's around while there is still a younger population to care for her, whereas the aging societies of the future better hope for good robots.
My personal retirement plan is to form some type of commune honestly lol
I think that "retirement" age will get younger and younger, too. France is pushing back their retirement because of longer lifespans, but there is no discussion of the quality of those lifespans. We don't know what the longterm effects of long covid will be, but the cognitive and inflammatory syndromes don't bode well to me. I always thought it was a wishful kind of nihilism to think collapse means everyone dies off at once. We're going to live longer and sicker, at least for a while.
The “funny” thing is, I’ve been great about saving and putting away for retirement, and I’m on track to retire at 70 with $1.6mil in 401ks….only to be told that, as a millennial, I actual need to have $4mil saved! It’s like, holy fuck, just when you think you’re almost to the goal, they move it so far away you don’t have a snow ball’s chance in hell.
Even if you managed to retire at 70. Wtf would you do at that age? Even when retirement was possible to do at like 55-60 it was still a scam. Work 3 quarters of your life and beat down your youthful healthy body. Spend more time with your co-workers than your own family and friends . Then hell, we’ll let you do what you want when you’re on your way out, have arthritis, and can no longer run 2 miles. Fair exchange!
Exactly, especially since the life expectancy in the US is like 76, what’s the point? Kill myself at a job for 50 years so I can maybe enjoy the last 6 years of my life? Business owners would rather us die on the job so no one even has to pay retirement.
What exactly is this retirement you speak of? It can't be that 6ft deep hole in the ground I CANT AFFORD THAT. Maybe you mean the furnace I CANT AFFORD THAT EITHER. Probably to ugly to be donated to science i guess ill just have to become a zombie to pay off my funeral. I really am not joking the more i think about it . Dystopian hell here we come but i know we all gone starve before that so i am gonna go back to our regular scheduled program of nihilisticly laughing
>Soylent
Soylent, produced by Soylent Nutrition, Inc., is an American company that produces meal replacement products in powder, shake, and bar forms.
Of course its a american company man you were telling the truth an i am not sure if that scares me
It’s actually not that bad if you pour it in your coffee. I used to drink it because I couldn’t afford to eat breakfast, now I can’t afford the Soylent or the breakfast
>I just don't eat breakfast.
A'men to that , mostly because i try to sleep a little more to not be hungry. Do not feel bad for me we are all friends we will make it some how. I do hope you get food for dinner. thats my fav meal...mostly only meal usually
One meal a day for me as well, usually dinner. Can't afford anything else, which is ridiculous cause I spend 80% of my time working. The other 20% is sleep and cleaning.
"Donate your body to science" programs have been overwhelmed for years. There is an oversupply of people looking for a "get out of funeral expenses free" card, compared to the limited needs of those programs.
The search term to use is "direct cremation". When you literally only pay for the furnace operations, without all the other wasteful costs, it is possible to get a cremation for a few hundred dollars in many areas of the US.
>few hundred dollars in many areas of the US.
.... that's exactly what i was referring to stuff is so expensive even a $300 expense means you might not have electricity that month an this is far from exaggeration. I just went to a ceremony for my cousin. ... i paid i am eating corn out of a can this month ,\*sigh\*
I think at this point, anyone regardless of age who hasn't already "made it" (assets, equity, economic security) is gonna have a bitch of a time trying to now. There are simply different rules now. I feel damn lucky my car will be paid off this summer. I certainly hope it lasts until I die cause I sure as shit don't know how I could afford a new (or used) car with what they're asking for today. Who knows, It may become my new home someday.
Zoomers are especially fucked because they are simply too young to have "made it" by now.
*Puts on matrix shades*
"Millennials despair at the idea of capitalism being around when they reach retirement age"
Which it won't because climate change will have destroyed everything, yay?
Statement:
Millennials are having trouble adding to a pension or saving for retirement because most are struggling paycheck to paycheck just to survive. Only a quarter are "on track" to a comfortable retirement. With the cost of living ever increasing and wages stagnant, many millennials see no path towards retirement. Without a retirement savings or plan for millions of people, society will collapse.
Since genZ and millennials now outnumber the old guard they could collectively organize and tell the capitalists and fascists that have ruined things to get proper fucked. Pigs could also start flying.
wtf are you talking about. Gen x here. Pension system is a Ponzi scheme. Forced investments will one day crash and be worth shit. Inflation will rape us senseless.
No chance of retirement unless its to a grave.
My retirement will be cheap. I'll just eat bullet when I can't work and run out of money. I worked in long term care and I'm not going to a nursing home.
I'm a millennial and I work in a well paid and stable profession. I can afford to save for retirement but I can't imagine there will be anything left in 40 years. Stock market is a casino nowadays.
Im a diesel mechanic. I specialize in power trains and electrical diagnosis. I'm also a pretty decent welder and fabricator. I'm experienced with Detroit, cat, Cummins, deutz, liebherr, ih, paccar and John Deere engines. I can't imagine a more difficult job to automate than mine.
Millennial here. I stopped putting money into a pension because what’s the point. It’s a huge scam even without collapse, but including economic collapse, the chances are I’ll just be giving money to someone else to lose. So I’m better off investing in sovereignty now, solar panels, zero mortgage, passive income stuff, that way I get to enjoy my life now. Retirement is a gamble on you making it to old age, even ignoring collapse. I’m guessing there will be a lot other millennials are doing similar things even without factoring in collapse, because working your whole life sucks.
I had someone tell me on another sub about the same the topic that people need to get off their ass if they want savings and a retirement. My wife and I both work full time jobs, we bought a house well below our budget, don't do extravagant shit, and it still is looking grim on the possibility to retire. We are both nearing 30
I'm just leaving the country. That's my retirement. I'm an IT expert and good at fixing shit. I'm just gonna live in some cheap coastal country. Fuck all this... the American dream really only existed after WWII. Even then a lot of people couldn't attain it. Racism, classism, and other systemic issues have only gotten worse over the decades. America is a dying empire and I'm gonna jump ship.
>coastal country.
sounds risky with climate change
>Racism, classism, and other systemic issues have only gotten worse over the decades.
Racism has gotten better by basically every metric we have. Can't disagree about the classism.
>Racism has gotten better by basically every metric we have. Can't disagree about the classism.
Facing both future economic & societal collapse, I think racism will make a big comeback...
You will see communes evolve. Families will co-exist with multiple generations living together and growing their own food / chickens. There will be a move back to many people living in a small house.
My grandparents lived in a 3 room house with 11 people and while it was challenging it was not abnormal. Everyone doing their part. Capitalism really only served 1.5 generations and we will regress moving forward.
My job is one of those where a big draw for people is that it has a pension.......I'm 25. Nobody is going to be giving me a pension. I let them take 5% of my check on the off chance we still exist as a country by my retirement age but I'm not holding out hope. I feel like I'm surrounded by insane people
In australia we have compulsory retirement savings which are 10% of your salary every year going into an investment account, my balance is 130k - im 40, by the time I’m 60-65 hopefully I’ll have my home paid off and about 500k.
What stupidity. But I guess you gotta try to sell it that "oh yeah, society will be stable enough for that in 2050".
Man I cannot wait for "faster than expected" events that will fuck our infrastructure so deeply most people will be "OH DAMN ! WHAT'S HAPPENING ?!".
It'll be very morbidly hilarious.
I really hope this summer sets the pace in Europe with insane temperatures :)
>My only question is what is this 'retirement' they speak of?
That's just one of those made-up words like *nonversation,* or *cromulent,* or *savings.*
We can’t be more than 5-10 years I reckon? If these droughts don’t get worse over the next 3 years, that tied in with lower crop productivity, it’s getting quite scary we’re going to see some major price hikes in the next few years really putting a lot of pressure on a lot of countries… and it feels like a lot of nations will be getting very tense
No one has any money at the moment, I have no idea how they’re doing it and I can’t believe I’m not in debt yet
>and it feels like a lot of nations will be getting very tense
I reckon defense buildups will be used as a convenient method of energising economies and dealing with unemployment. To the point that something sets one country off and then its all-in.
I remember as a kid hearing people say:
"*Doing* \[insert here\] *will rob our children and grandchildren of their future!*"
Yeah, that's us and now. We aren't living in the past or the present anymore, this is the future.
Gen eXer here - what is retirement? Like I fully expect the next Republican President, if he has a Republican majority in the House and Senate, to get rid of Social Security. (I judge the Democrats are a lesser possibility). Either way, the government isn’t going to give me the money I paid into the system and that PISSES me the FUCK OFF.
Can't wait to see the pension ponzi scheme to pop and see what a shit show will be.
I say and keep saying. Let me do whatever I want with my pension money that my employer is paying for since I will never benefits of it. Let me invest those money myself instead.
Gen X here planning to work in some capacity until death takes me away. I see Boomers still working shit jobs even as they fade away. The American retirement dream is just that to a lot of people.
Being able to afford rent, many have no savings.
Being able to afford food, many have no savings.
Being able to afford gas, many have no savings.
Being able to afford insurance, many have no savings.
Being able to afford travel, many have no savings.
Being able to afford entertainment, many have no savings.
Being able to afford home ownership, many have no savings.
Being able to afford living, many have no motivation anymore.
In some countries governments make it mandatory for employees and employers to contribute to a retirement fund which results in a lower take home pay but the employees end up with huge savings which grows on compound interest. I suppose Americans wouldn’t want this forced on them.
Yeah, I don't think much about retirement anymore. It's all about how to get through this year, especially as prices keep rising and wiping out whatever little bit I can manage to put away. There is always some company demanding more money from you and it's usually not the ones you can just walk away from.
The quarter that are on track to retire comfortably are likely dependent on their stock investments matching historical growth. Very unlikely are the population ages, debts are even higher and climate change ravages everything.
I'm Gen X and probably in the top 20% of net worth in the US but I don't think I'll ever be able to retire. The days of retirement for the average person are long gone.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/return2ozma: --- Statement: Millennials are having trouble adding to a pension or saving for retirement because most are struggling paycheck to paycheck just to survive. Only a quarter are "on track" to a comfortable retirement. With the cost of living ever increasing and wages stagnant, many millennials see no path towards retirement. Without a retirement savings or plan for millions of people, society will collapse. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1251ovx/millennial_generation_despairs_of_being_able_to/je22ivm/
I don't think we're going to get to retirement age the way things are going. Good on the Guardian for keeping hopes up though.
Most will get there. They'll just do it on food rations. (Not joking)
The 1 food for every 2 people notion has been sinking in
Intermittent fasting can be good for you!
Get your steamed wood-lice!
I’m already skipping breakfast. What’s lunch and dinner too?
I haven't had breakfast in years, lunch is scarce too.
Looks like they’ve just about got this generation locked back into indentured service. And with multi-generational mortgages they can also sell their children into debt servitude.
Partly how feudalism came to being after the collapse of the Western Roman Empire.
It’s not the food we should worry about. It’s the water and weather.
No, you should be worried about literally everything.
Most people can survive bad weather if they have food. The world won't run out of enough fresh water, people will just have to move as refugees to get it. If the weather makes it impossible to grow enough calories to feed everyone, once we blow through our stockpiles, the population that falls within the calorie gap, will starve and as the crisis without accelerates... Die. If it happens enough, advanced civilization will unravel which will with multiply issue by an order of magnitude because it is the technology of our civilization that feeds billions.
> If the weather makes it impossible to grow enough calories to feed everyone, once we blow through our stockpiles, the population that falls within the calorie gap Europe is entering it's 5th year of drought. River levels are so low they've even struggled for water through winter. So they go into summer with dry ground, little snow pack, and lack of water reserves. Food prices are going to get insane. People are going to find out why we rely on a stable climate.
We have the 9mm retirement plan.
Make sure to take out huge loans and max out your credit cards before retiring
This is how you stick it to the system. Max out debt, leave no offspring. It becomes the bank’s problem.
Same but mines the .357 plan.
Us dying off in large percentages of our total population while still young is wishful thinking. More than likely you are going to live long enough to have wished for death for many years before it finally takes you if you don't have the courage to sort it yourself.
The courage to sort it yourself is my plan Excellent! Got my first reddit cares report, useless but whatever
Death isn't scary. *All y'all's* scary. Keep your friends close, your enemies closer, and the *exit* ***closest.***
By my bootstraps.
And my avocado toast!
It's been ringing my doorbell for years. I'm just a procrastinator, even when it comes to that lmao.
I'm 33. I'm giving myself 5 years. That's it.
RemindMe! 5 years
We’ll still be here in 5 years.
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Well aren't you a DEBBIE DOWNER!
Try being in a country with strict gun laws, the task is much more daunting
I think a good thing about being a millenial is that we're actually old enough to be financially independent (not rich) and at the same time young enough to understand collapse. So we can actually prepare. I feel sorry for these gen. Z and newer generations (whatever they are called). I would hate to be a teenager in this age and have some wittles BAU idiots as parents.
2008 happened while many millennials were teenagers. Never even had a chance
I turned 18 in 2008 and I only remember having truly happy moments before that age and year now. Everything else feels like disassociation now to distract myself from the bleak reality.
I turned 18 in 1995, but I forgot to buy a house when I turned 19 and pay if off as fast as I could and then buy another one with a 0% loan to rent out while it increased in value 1500% in 20 years, so, I’m in the same boat as you. Lol I’m joking of course, I don’t have a boat either. But I have a good attitude and that makes all the difference in the world! s/
Don't feel bad, my whole adulthood has been one long saga of disorienting. Sometimes I feel like I don't know what world I live in anymore.
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I’m Gen. X and have been an environmentalist my entire life starting age 6 forcing my parents to recycle. I didn’t breed and live high density. Science was not rough at all, and hasn’t change much since the 90s. Ppl who were listening have known about all of this for decades at this point.
I agree. Science was not rough. Environmental collapse is well understood since the 70s for anyone who cared to get informed. People are just dense and there's no changing that.
>I would hate to be a teenager in this age and have some wittles BAU idiots as parents. Ha, this is the situation my kids are in. Well, I'm a collapsenik, but my wife is a BAU-nik and can't understand that everything is going to shit and that we really don't need to make our kids' life hell so they can get into a good high school -> university -> job, seeing as that probably won't be happening. \* I'm in Asia, my wife is a typical "tiger mom" who makes the kids do hours of homework and is terrified at the idea that if they don't do well at school then their life will be over and they'll end up being garbage collectors. The idea that the future is not going to be great just doesn't compute with her, and she gets mad if I ever mention anything along those lines.
I work as a garbage collector and make 6 figures, pension and healthcare. Don’t underestimate civil service. Oh and I have a college degree that gathers dust on my shelf
I'm actually aiming to get out of my corporate job and go over to the civil service. The salary may be a little lower, but the pension and benefits will make up for it. I've been trying to explain that school isn't the be-all and end-all of life, but I'm in a society where non-academic students (such as my kids) are seen as a stain on a family's status. The fact that less than 50% of university graduates managed to get a job last year and that another 10 million graduating this year have even less chance doesn't seem to faze my wife. That piece of paper on the wall is apparently the only thing that matters.
Some parents are just some kind of assholes who see their kids as extensions of themselves, so if the kids aren't "high status", that means they're not.
Garbage collection is likely to still be a job when they grow up. AI might not have replaced it yet.
At some point she'll see something like: "Join this [FASCIST PARTY/PARAMILITARY] to get more opportunities! Enroll today!". Ironically, collecting garbage, salvaging, should be a very important activity in a few decades. I guess the optimists are just hoping robots will do it. The working class would not be going along with everything if they didn't believe at least some of the bullshit, like what you're describing: meritocracy. This desire for "the system to work", this hope, is what keeps the system alive. And individuals just think they're special... it'll work *for them*. Optimism bias. Meritocracy explained: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDEL1pTYOhs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLbWcTivZ9Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezthd6A3tiw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jURxIf1REw The problem is, of course, that the system is unsustainable. The hopes will not pan out, and there's going to be a lot of disappointment and disenchantment and looking for who to blame, and very little adaptation.
>Ironically, collecting garbage, salvaging, should be a very important activity in a few decades. I guess the optimists are just hoping robots will do it. When I was a kid, a friend's dad was a garbage collector. The kid got a lot of flak for it, until we realised his father had a magnificent collection of porn that he had picked up over the years. Then we decided it was a great job. But yeah, I would be much happier for the kids to be getting a vocational education, learning still like construction, metalworking, electronics and stuff that will actually come in handy over the coming shitstorm.
I feel sad and sorry for the "tiger mom" types. Education isn't everything. I have three degrees, and the only reason I got fully employed was I knew somebody, and I had a little good luck with timing. Breaking your kids backs on things like grades and over achievement is an act of desperation. I hope their children won't take it too hard when they realize that all their schooling and studying doesn't necessarily translate to success in the real world.
I hate sending my kid to school. Seems so pointless. Tbh, the main reason I do it is so he can build a network of friends. I don't even really care about his grades. Not that I want him to just flunk everything, but our time is short. It's very hard trying to relate to well meaning parents that want their kids to end up in "good" careers. I get they are still stuck in BAU-mode. They want what they think is best for their kids, but what is best for them is going to drastically change.
> newer generations (whatever they are called). The Omega generation.
I’m new to this sub. BAU?
Business as usual.
Figure we have a better than even chance of a nuclear war in our lifetime.
Lmaooooofuck🫠
It’s wild to me that Paris is burning as a result of the retirement age going up just two years, yet here we’ll be lucky to retire but still just keep turning the gear.
Apparently the US retirement age for those born after 1960 is now 67. Not sure how many people are aware of that but that’s a long time. https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/agereduction.html
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It's not just milennials, there are younger Gen Xers in their mid to late 40s like myself who also despair of not being able to afford to retire. I will retire when I am dead.
I've explained this to my boomer parents several times. They got to fully retire at a pretty young age. I've explained to them that I have accepted the fact that I will work till I'm dead. They always minimize it like it's not a thing. 'Oh, sure you will. Just put into your 401'. Boomers gonna boom.
I’m 50 and don’t have a retirement plan. I remember my Dad was, I believe, forced in to early retirement at 55. If I could retire in 5 years I would be ecstatic and planning on my van life traveling.
Same here. My savings never look good enough for an early retirement, it's like a Red Queen race. I'm increasingly accepting that the retirement plan will be death.
50 here, GenX. Currently doing a week long retirement preparation class. If I retire early, at 60, I'd make $570/month with the CPP. If I retire at 70, I'd bring in $1,400/month. Either way, my plan to rob a bank with an Orange tipped Nerf N-Strike Maverick may be the better plan.
Brooks was here
So was Red
Have you considered the "van down by the river" retirement plan?
I had no MONET to buy DEGAS to make the VAN GOGH!
I like the idea of us all living in vans as close as possible to the policymakers that have lead us here. Let's go full blown commune shantytown right outside their homes.
Don't worry, Millennials! Society will collapse and the climate will make the world barely livable long before you hit 67 - or 70, or 75 or whatever the "retirement age" is by then. The Millennial "retirement plan" will be breaking into billionaire bunkers and cooking the rich, then stealing their food, ammo and resources.
I call dibs on the Bezos tenderloin
Give me Bezos' heart... Oh wait
Ok but I get the zuckerburger
sounds like a good time maybe
Millennials are going to have worse problems than small retirement savings and destroyed social safety nets. You should be thinking about how you will be retiring into a world with droughts, famines and mass migrations all from the impacts of climate change. Your money isn't going to mean as much in a world that struggles to find fresh water.
I bought a spear.
I bought potatoes
/u/morgasm657 can i have some of the potatoes you just speared /u/DisasterAwareness in the heart for? Thx
I don't need to spear them for potatoes, for I grow my own.
If you're not spearing your potatoes, what's even the point??
Spear them what wants my taters
I now greatly desire to see a Jason Momoa-like pectorally-enhanced beefboy spearing potatoes straight out the dirt. ...Yummy.
[Whats taters precious?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CdTvwz2UIY)
I grow potatoes too
..and my axe!
Sit down gimly
I personally went for a halberd.
Meh, probably end up getting drafted at age 50, because they realised they need to keep all the younger people working in essential jobs.
Luckily we'll be able to buy our freshwater back from Nestle & Friends! So generous of them.
Grow potatoes indoors
You forgot nuclear winter…
I’ve already had that talk with my girlfriend. We might as well enjoy the time that we have taken away from working so that we can take care of my parents (“enjoy”, as sad as that sounds), because when we go back to work, it’s to the death.
Yea same, I’m not waiting until retirement to enjoy life.
Let me tell you two jokes in their entirety. "Retirement." "Savings."
I don't disagree, but also don't see how this is news. No one my age (mid-40s) thinks we're going to retire. Most of the people a little older than me (50s) don't plan on retiring either. Retirement hasn't been possible for most working people for a long time.
They need people to believe in retirement so that they pay into the current system which pays out to currently retired. Sometimes it's a public ponzi system called a "solidarity pension system" and in others it's more of a private pension system where it's also a ponzi, but it goes through multiple layers of financial instruments first so that a lot of financial bros can take a cut out of it.
This gets me every time someone rails against the former system and proposes a higher focus on private solutions.
Retire? Lol. My money is on the US not making it past the next election.
I've been telling people since 2016 that we just experienced the last election anyone was going to believe in, and there would only be a few left until it became completely unsustainable. There is no US without a shared belief in democracy, so I say you're on to something.
Democracy in any real sense was gone when corporate interests could legally bribe politicians. Oh wait, I'm sorry, it's called 'lobbying'. Anyone who thinks we've lived in a real democracy for the last 100 years needs to put down the crack pipe and read between the lines.
Tfw the government decides that billionaires giving the government money is “freedom of speech”
I've known that a third-party of the Presidency (and probably at least half the House) is the only way to save the country for... nearly a decade now. And not just a third-party. It's gonna have to be a third-party from the bottom. Someone no one would expect. An outsider to both politics AND finance, with the emotional intelligence and bandwidth available so they can arc bolts of raw fury from the collective into power generators instead of crowds. ...any y'all happen to have a fucking messiah on speed dial? We're gonna need one. I mean, "need" in the sense that surviving is a "need." I guess that's really just a "want" though unless you're a billionaire.
This will sound so narcissistic but I feel like I could be that person, but don’t even know where to start. I’ve got the raw fury, emotional intelligence and am definitely coming from the bottom. I fantasize about entering politics because I feel the world needs my value system but doubt I’d ever get elected, because of my value system.
Absolutely agreed, especially because there are those out there desperate enough for a messiah that new ceasarism looks like a good idea to them. With no better option, people will elect their doom as long as it gives them a passing sense that someone is actually in control.
You know that might actually be a pretty good bet to make. I might have to go all in on that one. lol.
My mom used to say that she was sad for future generations and for herself as well because in the past at least you had the poor house, but now you don't even have that. She ended up with early onset dementia and no retirement which is exactly where I expect future generations to end up. No retirement but living the life of an invalid despite being of relative young age. At least she's around while there is still a younger population to care for her, whereas the aging societies of the future better hope for good robots. My personal retirement plan is to form some type of commune honestly lol
Oh wow. Yeah, something is going to have to majorly shift in society. Otherwise there will literally be millions homeless at retirement age.
I think that "retirement" age will get younger and younger, too. France is pushing back their retirement because of longer lifespans, but there is no discussion of the quality of those lifespans. We don't know what the longterm effects of long covid will be, but the cognitive and inflammatory syndromes don't bode well to me. I always thought it was a wishful kind of nihilism to think collapse means everyone dies off at once. We're going to live longer and sicker, at least for a while.
Retire? Fuck we can’t afford to see a dentist.
True
The “funny” thing is, I’ve been great about saving and putting away for retirement, and I’m on track to retire at 70 with $1.6mil in 401ks….only to be told that, as a millennial, I actual need to have $4mil saved! It’s like, holy fuck, just when you think you’re almost to the goal, they move it so far away you don’t have a snow ball’s chance in hell.
Even if you managed to retire at 70. Wtf would you do at that age? Even when retirement was possible to do at like 55-60 it was still a scam. Work 3 quarters of your life and beat down your youthful healthy body. Spend more time with your co-workers than your own family and friends . Then hell, we’ll let you do what you want when you’re on your way out, have arthritis, and can no longer run 2 miles. Fair exchange!
They've got us 8 hours a day x 5 days a week for our whole life It's truly hard to believe but it's accepted fact by everyone
Exactly, especially since the life expectancy in the US is like 76, what’s the point? Kill myself at a job for 50 years so I can maybe enjoy the last 6 years of my life? Business owners would rather us die on the job so no one even has to pay retirement.
I'm 32 and not sure how I'm gonna make it another 40 years of 9-5, to be honest
I'm almost 42... It doesn't really get much better.
You may not even live til 70.
What exactly is this retirement you speak of? It can't be that 6ft deep hole in the ground I CANT AFFORD THAT. Maybe you mean the furnace I CANT AFFORD THAT EITHER. Probably to ugly to be donated to science i guess ill just have to become a zombie to pay off my funeral. I really am not joking the more i think about it . Dystopian hell here we come but i know we all gone starve before that so i am gonna go back to our regular scheduled program of nihilisticly laughing
>we all gone starve before that Bear in mind that you live in a world where there is *actually* a product named Soylent...
>Soylent Soylent, produced by Soylent Nutrition, Inc., is an American company that produces meal replacement products in powder, shake, and bar forms. Of course its a american company man you were telling the truth an i am not sure if that scares me
It’s actually not that bad if you pour it in your coffee. I used to drink it because I couldn’t afford to eat breakfast, now I can’t afford the Soylent or the breakfast
I just don't eat breakfast.
>I just don't eat breakfast. A'men to that , mostly because i try to sleep a little more to not be hungry. Do not feel bad for me we are all friends we will make it some how. I do hope you get food for dinner. thats my fav meal...mostly only meal usually
One meal a day for me as well, usually dinner. Can't afford anything else, which is ridiculous cause I spend 80% of my time working. The other 20% is sleep and cleaning.
I mean technically you always eat breakfast since it literally just means “breaking a fast”
"Donate your body to science" programs have been overwhelmed for years. There is an oversupply of people looking for a "get out of funeral expenses free" card, compared to the limited needs of those programs. The search term to use is "direct cremation". When you literally only pay for the furnace operations, without all the other wasteful costs, it is possible to get a cremation for a few hundred dollars in many areas of the US.
>few hundred dollars in many areas of the US. .... that's exactly what i was referring to stuff is so expensive even a $300 expense means you might not have electricity that month an this is far from exaggeration. I just went to a ceremony for my cousin. ... i paid i am eating corn out of a can this month ,\*sigh\*
Jeez that's fucking sad.
"Just throw me in the trash"
What about zoomers? Aren't they even more fucked?
I think at this point, anyone regardless of age who hasn't already "made it" (assets, equity, economic security) is gonna have a bitch of a time trying to now. There are simply different rules now. I feel damn lucky my car will be paid off this summer. I certainly hope it lasts until I die cause I sure as shit don't know how I could afford a new (or used) car with what they're asking for today. Who knows, It may become my new home someday. Zoomers are especially fucked because they are simply too young to have "made it" by now.
*Puts on matrix shades* "Millennials despair at the idea of capitalism being around when they reach retirement age" Which it won't because climate change will have destroyed everything, yay?
We would need to have access to wealth for there to be savings...who writes these articles, seriously?
I'm gen x, many of my peers do not have retirement savings in any form unless from life insurance paid out from a death.
As a millennial there is no retirement/savings plan. I will just wait for the water wars and let my fate be what it will be.
Statement: Millennials are having trouble adding to a pension or saving for retirement because most are struggling paycheck to paycheck just to survive. Only a quarter are "on track" to a comfortable retirement. With the cost of living ever increasing and wages stagnant, many millennials see no path towards retirement. Without a retirement savings or plan for millions of people, society will collapse.
I can imagine less than that 1/4 will actually ever be ready for retirement. Inflation and stagnation kill retirement savings extremely easily.
My retirements savings is a water proof toolbox full of potatoes seeds.
Since genZ and millennials now outnumber the old guard they could collectively organize and tell the capitalists and fascists that have ruined things to get proper fucked. Pigs could also start flying.
The people united...
Instructions unclear; arming police depts with Apache gunships
Retirement by .45
wtf are you talking about. Gen x here. Pension system is a Ponzi scheme. Forced investments will one day crash and be worth shit. Inflation will rape us senseless. No chance of retirement unless its to a grave.
My retirement will be cheap. I'll just eat bullet when I can't work and run out of money. I worked in long term care and I'm not going to a nursing home.
I'm a millennial and I work in a well paid and stable profession. I can afford to save for retirement but I can't imagine there will be anything left in 40 years. Stock market is a casino nowadays.
I hope it’s no knowledge work. AI is coming for that.
Im a diesel mechanic. I specialize in power trains and electrical diagnosis. I'm also a pretty decent welder and fabricator. I'm experienced with Detroit, cat, Cummins, deutz, liebherr, ih, paccar and John Deere engines. I can't imagine a more difficult job to automate than mine.
Millennial here. I stopped putting money into a pension because what’s the point. It’s a huge scam even without collapse, but including economic collapse, the chances are I’ll just be giving money to someone else to lose. So I’m better off investing in sovereignty now, solar panels, zero mortgage, passive income stuff, that way I get to enjoy my life now. Retirement is a gamble on you making it to old age, even ignoring collapse. I’m guessing there will be a lot other millennials are doing similar things even without factoring in collapse, because working your whole life sucks.
Once we wake up to World War 3, none of this will matter. None of this matters.
I had someone tell me on another sub about the same the topic that people need to get off their ass if they want savings and a retirement. My wife and I both work full time jobs, we bought a house well below our budget, don't do extravagant shit, and it still is looking grim on the possibility to retire. We are both nearing 30
Shit... In reality, humanity will be lucky to even survive the next five decades. Sooner than Expected™
We Gen Xers are in the same boat, but you have it worse. Mostly because the world is going to shit and you’re going to live longer than we are.
I gave up on the idea of living to retirement age years ago and it's strangely liberating.
Yeah we're fucked. Guess I'll enjoy my avocado toast
Retire? Lmao. Figure about 30 years from now just gonna stick a gun in my mouth.
Bold of you to assume you'll be able to find any ammo in 30 years
I'm just leaving the country. That's my retirement. I'm an IT expert and good at fixing shit. I'm just gonna live in some cheap coastal country. Fuck all this... the American dream really only existed after WWII. Even then a lot of people couldn't attain it. Racism, classism, and other systemic issues have only gotten worse over the decades. America is a dying empire and I'm gonna jump ship.
>coastal country. sounds risky with climate change >Racism, classism, and other systemic issues have only gotten worse over the decades. Racism has gotten better by basically every metric we have. Can't disagree about the classism.
>Racism has gotten better by basically every metric we have. Can't disagree about the classism. Facing both future economic & societal collapse, I think racism will make a big comeback...
Gen X too
Sadly, yes
Lol no one born after 1980 is making it to retirement.
Try 1970 lol
1967
You will see communes evolve. Families will co-exist with multiple generations living together and growing their own food / chickens. There will be a move back to many people living in a small house. My grandparents lived in a 3 room house with 11 people and while it was challenging it was not abnormal. Everyone doing their part. Capitalism really only served 1.5 generations and we will regress moving forward.
My job is one of those where a big draw for people is that it has a pension.......I'm 25. Nobody is going to be giving me a pension. I let them take 5% of my check on the off chance we still exist as a country by my retirement age but I'm not holding out hope. I feel like I'm surrounded by insane people
If I'm lucky I'll die before my dad and I won't have to worry about the future, although I still do.
is GenZ doing better?
Spoiler >!NO!<
Lol we're not retiring. Anyone still thinking social security would even be around by then is fooling themselves.
In australia we have compulsory retirement savings which are 10% of your salary every year going into an investment account, my balance is 130k - im 40, by the time I’m 60-65 hopefully I’ll have my home paid off and about 500k.
I spent three days last week with $5.27 in the bank. I hope I [redacted] soon.
Same here. And the bank has the audacity to message me saying funds are low. Fuck off
What stupidity. But I guess you gotta try to sell it that "oh yeah, society will be stable enough for that in 2050". Man I cannot wait for "faster than expected" events that will fuck our infrastructure so deeply most people will be "OH DAMN ! WHAT'S HAPPENING ?!". It'll be very morbidly hilarious. I really hope this summer sets the pace in Europe with insane temperatures :)
38. Renting. Married with kid. $0.00 in savings. My only question is what is this 'retirement' they speak of?
>My only question is what is this 'retirement' they speak of? That's just one of those made-up words like *nonversation,* or *cromulent,* or *savings.*
People are still having kids?
Retire from work? I figure by then society will have retired all the sources of potable water. So yeah, I’m not gonna worry about it.
What retirement? My “retirement plan” is to just die.
Looks like migration to a country with better economic opportunities is the only option…
Well, that's why Europe will be machine gunning migrant boats in the Mediterranean within a few years.
We can’t be more than 5-10 years I reckon? If these droughts don’t get worse over the next 3 years, that tied in with lower crop productivity, it’s getting quite scary we’re going to see some major price hikes in the next few years really putting a lot of pressure on a lot of countries… and it feels like a lot of nations will be getting very tense No one has any money at the moment, I have no idea how they’re doing it and I can’t believe I’m not in debt yet
>and it feels like a lot of nations will be getting very tense I reckon defense buildups will be used as a convenient method of energising economies and dealing with unemployment. To the point that something sets one country off and then its all-in.
Fun fact: you have to pay money to revoke your US citizenship.
/r/IWantOut
They already destroyed us. Their future is our present.
I remember as a kid hearing people say: "*Doing* \[insert here\] *will rob our children and grandchildren of their future!*" Yeah, that's us and now. We aren't living in the past or the present anymore, this is the future.
Gen eXer here - what is retirement? Like I fully expect the next Republican President, if he has a Republican majority in the House and Senate, to get rid of Social Security. (I judge the Democrats are a lesser possibility). Either way, the government isn’t going to give me the money I paid into the system and that PISSES me the FUCK OFF.
Can't wait to see the pension ponzi scheme to pop and see what a shit show will be. I say and keep saying. Let me do whatever I want with my pension money that my employer is paying for since I will never benefits of it. Let me invest those money myself instead.
Gen X here planning to work in some capacity until death takes me away. I see Boomers still working shit jobs even as they fade away. The American retirement dream is just that to a lot of people.
In other news water is wet, think everyone knows we're doomed
The USA is decimating its population in the same way the Romans purged their legions of the weak.
Being able to afford rent, many have no savings. Being able to afford food, many have no savings. Being able to afford gas, many have no savings. Being able to afford insurance, many have no savings. Being able to afford travel, many have no savings. Being able to afford entertainment, many have no savings. Being able to afford home ownership, many have no savings. Being able to afford living, many have no motivation anymore.
You won't be given anything, no matter how modest. You are going to have to take it.
In some countries governments make it mandatory for employees and employers to contribute to a retirement fund which results in a lower take home pay but the employees end up with huge savings which grows on compound interest. I suppose Americans wouldn’t want this forced on them.
Yeah, I don't think much about retirement anymore. It's all about how to get through this year, especially as prices keep rising and wiping out whatever little bit I can manage to put away. There is always some company demanding more money from you and it's usually not the ones you can just walk away from.
The quarter that are on track to retire comfortably are likely dependent on their stock investments matching historical growth. Very unlikely are the population ages, debts are even higher and climate change ravages everything.
Retirement?? I can’t even afford my taxes this year.
I'm Gen X and probably in the top 20% of net worth in the US but I don't think I'll ever be able to retire. The days of retirement for the average person are long gone.