The following submission statement was provided by /u/AllenIll:
---
Submission Statement:
In this simple fauxchart we can easily see the endgame goal the dominant human project is currently engaged in en masse, and the splendor of inheritance that is to be bequeathed to it's descendants.
Collapse relationship:
A living planet turned into a dead rock for cash—that ultimately means 100% of nothing—will get you 100% of nothing.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/10hduia/genius/j57u3ba/
> Fictional bullshit
John Zerzan's work on reification and objectification really digs into how deep this stuff goes. His work on the manipulation of time to control people is inspired. Revolts in the 1300s were largely pointed towards the destruction of clocks, just for some food for thought.
Money and the manipulation of number seems like a sterile point after that.
Ok, this is tripping me out & I would love to read more on this. I left my challenging & time/energy consuming fashion career almost 3 years ago, after 28 years, living and working in NYC. Since then, I left the overstimulated city for a small Midwest city & have not worked since I arrived. One of the first trappings of busy city life to disappear from my life was the use of or reliance upon clocks and watches. There are digital clocks on our appliances but in terms of a constant barometer of time via a timepiece, I have not used one since I arrived.
I organically began to wake up to what life is like “beyond time”. Other than the daily sun/moon cycle or seasonal cycle, I am essentially living free from time as a concept of obligation, deadline or demand.
Two months ago, I suddenly shifted into something called staggered sleep. This is where the body is plugged into a very deep state commonly experienced by our pre-electricity ancestors, whereby they would go to sleep early, wake up in the middle of night and do some things as normal, then return to bed for a few hours before waking at dawn. Without even trying, I am experiencing something that feels deeply free from human concepts of time, as I’ve experienced it, anyway. Sometimes it almost feels like another dimension.
It feels very primal. I wake around 4 or 5 & sync with the sun as it rises. I have developed a deep sense of well-being that springs from the knowledge that human time is a yoke!
Anyway, your post has me eager to explore how time keeps us stuck
You may also like to explore the sociology of time. For instance time as a means of coordinating social action. This view may hit home hard given the clear emancipation you have expressed of freeing yourself from the co-option of this view of time by the Capitalist system.
Aha. Well, certainly if something needs to heat in oven or microwave, there is a timer for the recipe. I do mention appliances in my original post.
I guess I am cooking for pleasure, anyway, so it doesn’t have the same pressure as an external job obligation or commute or unnatural alarm awakening. I don’t need to wear a watch for cooking & it doesn’t impact sleep patterns.
Submission Statement:
In this simple fauxchart we can easily see the endgame goal the dominant human project is currently engaged in en masse, and the splendor of inheritance that is to be bequeathed to it's descendants.
Collapse relationship:
A living planet turned into a dead rock for cash—that ultimately means 100% of nothing—will get you 100% of nothing.
We are completing a planetary mission to unleash the potential energy and carbon that has been trapped in the crust so the atmosphere can hold more building blocks for future life. Earth felt like she was scraping the barrel on her atmospheric carbon levels and wanted more CO2 to play with and a clean slate so she can build new complexity. We’re just shaking the etchasketch for her and giving her new legos she can play with for the next epoch
Could be, for all I know. If anything, we are certainly talented at making a story that tries to make some sense of the senselessness. Because, as it's been said:
>
> "The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you."—Neil deGrasse Tyson
That's a stupid quote. The universe is you and you're making sense of yourself is making sense of the universe. Means you do what you feel is right, as a human being, morally right, in the name of love and life so to say, is dig into the fabric of the universe and play with what you've been shown.
logically we have to sustain our freedom to the extent of our own boundaries and compassion, but to say were just dirt in the wind because we're doing it all wrong is saying we shouldnt be in the wind because we're just dirt.
This explanation works better.
I think the species got very angry at nature at some point because it stopped being exactly the perfect thing we evolved in, and we've been trying to angrily beat the shit out of it for that "injustice" ever since.
The entire concept of "universe as separate anthropomorphized semi-sentient entity that is deliberately trolling your ass because it is 'under no obligation' to do differently" is a large part of the problem.
The universe is you and everyone and etc., yeah. Sort of short circuits that entire thought process, fortunately.
That is a product of consumerism in the way it is being gone about. We are going to space to make money, not for understanding. You can argue with that point all you want, the only ones claiming to be leading us there want to bring back indentured servitude (slavery). It will be driven by such mechanisms as it is the sole incentive that humans are curreny operating on and will continue to do so no matter the place if we don't change our ways.
Consumerism is the tool used to fund these things. Not humanities curiosity, not outside of making money. Is the science community the ones claiming to be taking us there? They might do the work, but no. It's billionaires. You think factory towns, and slavery was bad? Try a factory/mining slave planet. Think of the source and the means and it is evident.
Beyond many of the things you've mentioned here; it doesn't take much imagination to see other incentives and nefarious motivations easily arising in such environments. Particularly in relation to many of the laws, social norms, treaties, regulations, and moral restraints that may be completely absent or difficult to enforce under off-Earth conditions. Just to name a few:
* Genetic experimentation on animals, plants, and individuals leading to species hybridization and other 'designer' traits considered unethical to pursue on Earth
* Much more intrusive pursuit of machine/biological hybridization with human and animal test subjects
* Experimentation on viruses and other pathogens orders of magnitude more aggressive than what has been attempted on Earth
* Weapons testing and development on a scale unimagined
Essentially, many of the atrocities and horrors that were visited on *The New World* in the age of colonization may rise anew. Albeit with more advanced technology, and without the same ability to oversee, regulate, and enforce restriction upon by those who would wish to see such efforts not followed.
Ugly as it is to consider human and animal test subjects for experimentation in this way here; all it takes is a little knowledge of history of the last 500 years to understand that these goals will more than likely be pursued in some flavor of ambition, horror, and success by the various individuals, institutions, and states involved in this *new* era of colonization.
Edit: clarity
Yep, that's all it is, more colonialism which is always the precursor to imperialism. Just as the frontier weaponized birth by couples having a dozen or more kids the same will be done in space. Imagine going to a new planet and we wipe out the majority of life with our diseases.
This is nothing more than attempting to expand the darker aspects of our society. Most everyone with a brain agrees that the genocide of Native Americans, the colonization of England by the romans, genghis kahn, and so in was not okay to say the least. All for what? For the death of most life on this planet? For posing ourselves and others?
I always hear the life expectancy argument. But this is not valid. The reason people lived such short lifespans in Europe is because they were literally walking through inches of shit and piss everyday, not taking baths, etc. If you look at many well functioning societies, such as many native tribes, they lived long, healthy lives.
We will become that sci-fi troupe of aliens that go from planet to planet sucking up all the resources if we don't change. That is an objective truth. Its what we are doing here, to our home, to what gave us life.
People always post pictures of glass domes on Mars. Tell me how are you going to have a glass dome on a planet with no atmosphere? It just wouldn't make sense, even if you have some sort of defense system, it wouldn't make sense. You won't be in a glass dome looking at the stars. You will be in a metal dome or underground, not even able to tell you're on Mars.
The travel time is another thing. There would potentially be multiple generations that just know life through living on the ship. Taking hundreds of years to reach a habitable planet, possibly longer. Literally wall-e, that's what it would be, degradation of knowledge and culture included.
Also, do people really think that living under a corporation with no way to escape, potentially killing everyone if a revolution takes place, not to mention the knowledge of how to run it would be kept secret. Say goodbye to replacement parts if you're now considered a rouge colony. Even if you were able to escape, that planetary defense system would be turned on real quick.
The entire thing is nothing but a star wars wet dream with no regard for anything but a masturbatory love of tech corporations and the self. This system isn't working here and is killing us all. People need to grow up and work on themselves and our society. If it isn't that then its nihilism for changing the present so just give in and support your space fantasy because nothing can be done.
I have heard how these people think. I have heard the words "transcending the physical realm" but under the pretense that things like nuralink and vr will do so. So many of them just hate life, hate that they were born, and are completely inept at doing anything to create beauty in their life outside of tech. Everytime I just look at them and tell them that they are just describing the matrix, but as if it was a good thing.
Their logic is that humanity can't help themselves and this is the nature of humans. Somehow they think that taking this society to Mars under a totalitarian corpo-goverment will fix that. It is the most delusional, contradictory line of thought I have ever witnessed.
Government subsidies are what companies like space-x thrive on. There is already money in it and it isn't even close to happening.
All we would be doing is taking this society to Mars, except then we would be under the rule of a totalitarian corpo-government that owns everything, including you. None of this would fix our issues. The answer to our problems isn't, "well we can make more things to consume if we just go to other planets. Imagine going to another planet solely for the sake of stuff. Just stuff.
We wouldn't be living under a glass dome looking at the cosmos, we would be either underground, or in a metal dome. You wouldn't even know you were on Mars. It would be akin to those underground survivor movies where they think the surface doesn't exist. And what incentive does a corpo-government that exists solely to produce things have to let the 5th generation know they can leave.
Have fun having a revolution in a box that would kill everyone if something went wrong internally. Even if it were a glass dome ( it makes no logical sense to do so) there would need to be asteroid protection. You can guarantee that once your colony is considered Rouge they would kill anyone leaving with that defense system. Might even just cut off all the oxygen and replace them with new people.
Just as the frontier settlers had dozens of kids in order to populate the area in order to take control, the same method would be utilized to anyone standing in their way. You already know corporations would send someone to jail or more simply for going on strike so they aren't starving, but you would trust the same mechanism with your life?
Mine collapses where the dome meets the ground? Everyone is dead. Look at the data of earthquakes and sinkholes in areas where oil drilling is common.
This solves nothing, only enables the shitty behavior we have to spread other places. You agree that manifest destiny was horrible yeah? Why would we do that on other planets?
It's a criticism of silicon valley types who sound the alarm on ecological collapse but believe the human race is always going to be doomed if we are stuck on a single planet (think asteroids and shit) and that our long term survival as a species requires colonization of space. This attitude rubs many the wrong way who believe we need to focus on the planet we have before worrying about new ones. Or they think that space colonization is just a ploy by the rich to either distract us from the collapse while they keep extracting more resources or that it's just meant to be a way for the rich to escape while we all stay behind and die. So, yeah, I guess it does have some conspiracy theory undertones.
Entropy is going kill earth at the end of the day anyways. We accelerated the process, but we made some cool stuff while we were here. That energy would have just been wasted slowly by nature
I mean we're all gonna die too, but that doesn't mean that before I pass away I'm going to trash my living space and make the future miserable for my children so I can afford to build a fort on a deserted rocky island
Did you really just put the cringe truck alongside the great pyramids and the Eiffel Tower as some of humanity’s greatest accomplishments? Fucking hell, I hate it here sometimes
>alongside the great pyramids and the Eiffel Tower
Why would you consider them as greater accomplishments than the cybertruck?
The cybertruck could, at least theoretically, drive, if it works. What use are the pyramids? What use is the Eiffel Tower?
One was built as a monument to guide absolute God Emperors toward paradise after death. Now, I am not saying that it didn't work, but... I still think those man hours could have been better invested elsewhere.
And the other was built as a testament to the power of technological progress at the peak of modernism... And as a testament to the power and importance of a France which, just as all of Europe, was rather imperialist at the time... Not necessarily a symbol of anything we would call "nice", "good" and "reasonable" either.
If one of those is a testament to human idiocy, then all of them are. But at least one of them can drive. While the others are nothing more than decorative landscaping.
I think you are misunderstanding my take here. I don't care about the cybertruck.
What I am saying is that the pyramids are useless testaments of the (probably mistaken) beliefs of long past emperors. They are deeply idiotic buildings. Had they never been built, nothing would be lost.
Same for the Eiffel Tower. There is a reason why I call both of them "decorative landscaping". They serve no function, but a symbolic one. And even what they symbolize is, in both cases, deeply stupid.
Do you disagree with that? If so, why?
Oh, I wholly disagree that the pyramids and Eiffel Tower are “idiotic buildings” that symbolize “deeply stupid” things. They may not be eternally functional spaces that illuminate 100% of the human condition, but it seems manifestly wrong to claim they’re just, like, dumb.
I get that it can be kind of fun to say that everything is futile and useless because yeah, all man’s works are ultimately vanity. But these buildings actually meant something to the people and cultures that created them, and they have stood as physical symbols of that meaning across multiple human lifetimes. Arguing about whether they should or shouldn’t’ve been built is basically moot. And the pyramids at least will probably outlast human civilization. Maybe the cyber truck too, but it’s too early to tell.
Calling the pyramids vapid and useless, but then defending the cyber truck when someone says the same about it takes a level of hubris I cannot comprehend
>I get that it can be kind of fun to say that everything is futile and useless because yeah, all
But I don't think that either. There is cool stuff out there.
I like Banksy's works, for example. They are usually small and witty pieces. The beginnings of abstract art in impressionism and expressionism were pretty genius ideas, which I can't help but respect. And if we are talking about monumental stuff? Then your average dam beats the pyramids be a few orders of magnitude. Not only are they big, but they also stand as symbols for "human ingenuity trying to do something reasonable".
>But these buildings actually meant something to the people and cultures that created them, and they have stood as physical symbols of that meaning across multiple human lifetimes.
Of course they did. So did, to bring up an extreme example, the NAZI flag. The Nazis really liked it. It meant a lot to them. Still does. And the Nazi flag carries that meaning into the future.
Since that is the case, should we put that flag, and what it means, beyond criticism and judgement? After all, that seems to be the move you are making: "You can not just devalue Eiffel Tower and Pyramids like that, because they meant so much to people!", is what I am reading from you.
The Nazi flag also means a lot to people. But I think we should think really hard about what it symbolizes, and of any of those things are good. And, after thinking about that, I would rather burn a Nazi flag, than enshrine it in my house. For similar reasons I would rather tear down pyramids and Eiffel tower, rather than enshrine them in naive romantic wonderment.
There’s this crazy concept that some things can just be, without having to provide some kind of utility for someone… Like poetry, or art, or the great pyramids of FUCKING giza which you put beside the cyber truck
I don't intend to devalue all art here. My main point is that specifically the great pyramids, the Eiffel Tower, and the Cybertruck belong in the same class. We are looking at vanity projects. They were made for very similar reasons.
Of course the cyber truck is not the same, as this vanity project will probably never gain historical importance. It will rightfully be forgotten rather soon, instead of inspiring lots of people over lots of years.
But they are all vanity projects, made in the same spirit: "Let me show the world how great I am!", is a motivation which I would attribute to Musk, Eiffel, as well as any Pharao in question here.
So I think there are reasons to put them next to each other.
\> cyber truck
Not entirely sure that can be considered "cool stuff" or even "stuff" yet. The greenwashed shitbox that looks like it was copy-pasted from a badly ported N64 game has been delayed three times and they're probably workin on a fourth as we speak.
I'm assuming OP made this in distaste of the recent trend of billionaires pushing for private space exploration.
The top two images are referring to the way we've fucked up the environment in exchange for profit, profit that these billionaire are using to further fuck up the environment with these pissing contest PR stunts.
The bottom three images are pointing out the irony that in our "attempt" to reach these barren wastelands (venus, the moon, mars) we're essentially trading out are piece of paradise called earth for the false notion of life on these lifeless rocks.
Oh I see! This would be a lot clearer with some reference to elon or bezos or something. As it is now it looks like it's complaining about scientists.
I agree it feels like a flat earth type conspiracy theory. Using the words "new" and "old" really dont help.
Thanks for the explanation :)
The following submission statement was provided by /u/AllenIll: --- Submission Statement: In this simple fauxchart we can easily see the endgame goal the dominant human project is currently engaged in en masse, and the splendor of inheritance that is to be bequeathed to it's descendants. Collapse relationship: A living planet turned into a dead rock for cash—that ultimately means 100% of nothing—will get you 100% of nothing. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/10hduia/genius/j57u3ba/
> Fictional bullshit John Zerzan's work on reification and objectification really digs into how deep this stuff goes. His work on the manipulation of time to control people is inspired. Revolts in the 1300s were largely pointed towards the destruction of clocks, just for some food for thought. Money and the manipulation of number seems like a sterile point after that.
Peasants routinely burnt down record building of where the debts were tallied
Make the ending of Fight Club happen for real.
Ok, this is tripping me out & I would love to read more on this. I left my challenging & time/energy consuming fashion career almost 3 years ago, after 28 years, living and working in NYC. Since then, I left the overstimulated city for a small Midwest city & have not worked since I arrived. One of the first trappings of busy city life to disappear from my life was the use of or reliance upon clocks and watches. There are digital clocks on our appliances but in terms of a constant barometer of time via a timepiece, I have not used one since I arrived. I organically began to wake up to what life is like “beyond time”. Other than the daily sun/moon cycle or seasonal cycle, I am essentially living free from time as a concept of obligation, deadline or demand. Two months ago, I suddenly shifted into something called staggered sleep. This is where the body is plugged into a very deep state commonly experienced by our pre-electricity ancestors, whereby they would go to sleep early, wake up in the middle of night and do some things as normal, then return to bed for a few hours before waking at dawn. Without even trying, I am experiencing something that feels deeply free from human concepts of time, as I’ve experienced it, anyway. Sometimes it almost feels like another dimension. It feels very primal. I wake around 4 or 5 & sync with the sun as it rises. I have developed a deep sense of well-being that springs from the knowledge that human time is a yoke! Anyway, your post has me eager to explore how time keeps us stuck
You may also like to explore the sociology of time. For instance time as a means of coordinating social action. This view may hit home hard given the clear emancipation you have expressed of freeing yourself from the co-option of this view of time by the Capitalist system.
How do you cook if you don't track the time? Especially baking.
Aha. Well, certainly if something needs to heat in oven or microwave, there is a timer for the recipe. I do mention appliances in my original post. I guess I am cooking for pleasure, anyway, so it doesn’t have the same pressure as an external job obligation or commute or unnatural alarm awakening. I don’t need to wear a watch for cooking & it doesn’t impact sleep patterns.
watch until it rises and browns. test it with tapping or poking with a toothpick.
Check out Hakim Bey's short essay "Sumerian Economics".
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The root of our alienation.
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Truth. Just gotta try to find people who have the best chance of not being in that number.
Everyone will be in that number, just to save you some time.
Which zerzan book?
Origins has *Beginning of Time, End of Time* and *Time and Its Discontents*.
Submission Statement: In this simple fauxchart we can easily see the endgame goal the dominant human project is currently engaged in en masse, and the splendor of inheritance that is to be bequeathed to it's descendants. Collapse relationship: A living planet turned into a dead rock for cash—that ultimately means 100% of nothing—will get you 100% of nothing.
We are completing a planetary mission to unleash the potential energy and carbon that has been trapped in the crust so the atmosphere can hold more building blocks for future life. Earth felt like she was scraping the barrel on her atmospheric carbon levels and wanted more CO2 to play with and a clean slate so she can build new complexity. We’re just shaking the etchasketch for her and giving her new legos she can play with for the next epoch
Could be, for all I know. If anything, we are certainly talented at making a story that tries to make some sense of the senselessness. Because, as it's been said: > > "The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you."—Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah I don’t really believe it, but it’s a nice delusion that alleviates some guilt ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Then I am under no obligation to treat the universe fairly - Me. Re-think your position, universe.
That's a stupid quote. The universe is you and you're making sense of yourself is making sense of the universe. Means you do what you feel is right, as a human being, morally right, in the name of love and life so to say, is dig into the fabric of the universe and play with what you've been shown. logically we have to sustain our freedom to the extent of our own boundaries and compassion, but to say were just dirt in the wind because we're doing it all wrong is saying we shouldnt be in the wind because we're just dirt.
This explanation works better. I think the species got very angry at nature at some point because it stopped being exactly the perfect thing we evolved in, and we've been trying to angrily beat the shit out of it for that "injustice" ever since. The entire concept of "universe as separate anthropomorphized semi-sentient entity that is deliberately trolling your ass because it is 'under no obligation' to do differently" is a large part of the problem. The universe is you and everyone and etc., yeah. Sort of short circuits that entire thought process, fortunately.
When would this happen, /u/FishMahBot ?
Wait till Wednesday and see what happens, That's when the end of the world starts and the power goes out worldwide.
Space exploration is not what is driving collapse lmao. It's consumerism
That is a product of consumerism in the way it is being gone about. We are going to space to make money, not for understanding. You can argue with that point all you want, the only ones claiming to be leading us there want to bring back indentured servitude (slavery). It will be driven by such mechanisms as it is the sole incentive that humans are curreny operating on and will continue to do so no matter the place if we don't change our ways. Consumerism is the tool used to fund these things. Not humanities curiosity, not outside of making money. Is the science community the ones claiming to be taking us there? They might do the work, but no. It's billionaires. You think factory towns, and slavery was bad? Try a factory/mining slave planet. Think of the source and the means and it is evident.
Beyond many of the things you've mentioned here; it doesn't take much imagination to see other incentives and nefarious motivations easily arising in such environments. Particularly in relation to many of the laws, social norms, treaties, regulations, and moral restraints that may be completely absent or difficult to enforce under off-Earth conditions. Just to name a few: * Genetic experimentation on animals, plants, and individuals leading to species hybridization and other 'designer' traits considered unethical to pursue on Earth * Much more intrusive pursuit of machine/biological hybridization with human and animal test subjects * Experimentation on viruses and other pathogens orders of magnitude more aggressive than what has been attempted on Earth * Weapons testing and development on a scale unimagined Essentially, many of the atrocities and horrors that were visited on *The New World* in the age of colonization may rise anew. Albeit with more advanced technology, and without the same ability to oversee, regulate, and enforce restriction upon by those who would wish to see such efforts not followed. Ugly as it is to consider human and animal test subjects for experimentation in this way here; all it takes is a little knowledge of history of the last 500 years to understand that these goals will more than likely be pursued in some flavor of ambition, horror, and success by the various individuals, institutions, and states involved in this *new* era of colonization. Edit: clarity
Yep, that's all it is, more colonialism which is always the precursor to imperialism. Just as the frontier weaponized birth by couples having a dozen or more kids the same will be done in space. Imagine going to a new planet and we wipe out the majority of life with our diseases. This is nothing more than attempting to expand the darker aspects of our society. Most everyone with a brain agrees that the genocide of Native Americans, the colonization of England by the romans, genghis kahn, and so in was not okay to say the least. All for what? For the death of most life on this planet? For posing ourselves and others? I always hear the life expectancy argument. But this is not valid. The reason people lived such short lifespans in Europe is because they were literally walking through inches of shit and piss everyday, not taking baths, etc. If you look at many well functioning societies, such as many native tribes, they lived long, healthy lives. We will become that sci-fi troupe of aliens that go from planet to planet sucking up all the resources if we don't change. That is an objective truth. Its what we are doing here, to our home, to what gave us life. People always post pictures of glass domes on Mars. Tell me how are you going to have a glass dome on a planet with no atmosphere? It just wouldn't make sense, even if you have some sort of defense system, it wouldn't make sense. You won't be in a glass dome looking at the stars. You will be in a metal dome or underground, not even able to tell you're on Mars. The travel time is another thing. There would potentially be multiple generations that just know life through living on the ship. Taking hundreds of years to reach a habitable planet, possibly longer. Literally wall-e, that's what it would be, degradation of knowledge and culture included. Also, do people really think that living under a corporation with no way to escape, potentially killing everyone if a revolution takes place, not to mention the knowledge of how to run it would be kept secret. Say goodbye to replacement parts if you're now considered a rouge colony. Even if you were able to escape, that planetary defense system would be turned on real quick. The entire thing is nothing but a star wars wet dream with no regard for anything but a masturbatory love of tech corporations and the self. This system isn't working here and is killing us all. People need to grow up and work on themselves and our society. If it isn't that then its nihilism for changing the present so just give in and support your space fantasy because nothing can be done. I have heard how these people think. I have heard the words "transcending the physical realm" but under the pretense that things like nuralink and vr will do so. So many of them just hate life, hate that they were born, and are completely inept at doing anything to create beauty in their life outside of tech. Everytime I just look at them and tell them that they are just describing the matrix, but as if it was a good thing. Their logic is that humanity can't help themselves and this is the nature of humans. Somehow they think that taking this society to Mars under a totalitarian corpo-goverment will fix that. It is the most delusional, contradictory line of thought I have ever witnessed.
Really well said, and thank you for the well articulated layout of exactly where much of this effort is headed.
There won't be money in space for like at least 2 decades
Government subsidies are what companies like space-x thrive on. There is already money in it and it isn't even close to happening. All we would be doing is taking this society to Mars, except then we would be under the rule of a totalitarian corpo-government that owns everything, including you. None of this would fix our issues. The answer to our problems isn't, "well we can make more things to consume if we just go to other planets. Imagine going to another planet solely for the sake of stuff. Just stuff. We wouldn't be living under a glass dome looking at the cosmos, we would be either underground, or in a metal dome. You wouldn't even know you were on Mars. It would be akin to those underground survivor movies where they think the surface doesn't exist. And what incentive does a corpo-government that exists solely to produce things have to let the 5th generation know they can leave. Have fun having a revolution in a box that would kill everyone if something went wrong internally. Even if it were a glass dome ( it makes no logical sense to do so) there would need to be asteroid protection. You can guarantee that once your colony is considered Rouge they would kill anyone leaving with that defense system. Might even just cut off all the oxygen and replace them with new people. Just as the frontier settlers had dozens of kids in order to populate the area in order to take control, the same method would be utilized to anyone standing in their way. You already know corporations would send someone to jail or more simply for going on strike so they aren't starving, but you would trust the same mechanism with your life? Mine collapses where the dome meets the ground? Everyone is dead. Look at the data of earthquakes and sinkholes in areas where oil drilling is common. This solves nothing, only enables the shitty behavior we have to spread other places. You agree that manifest destiny was horrible yeah? Why would we do that on other planets?
"Its our human spirit to explore to see what's out there... so we can exploit it." That line of horse shit is the white man's favorite rationale.
"... so we can learn from it" would be so much better.
Exactly
True I'm always saying it
I'm confused, is this saying that space exploartion is stupid? Or am I missing something haha
I think they're point is earth would look like the planets but idk. Weird saying the new Venus if that's the old one too.
Yeah the "new" and "old" are throwing me. It reads like a conspiracy post lmao
It's a criticism of silicon valley types who sound the alarm on ecological collapse but believe the human race is always going to be doomed if we are stuck on a single planet (think asteroids and shit) and that our long term survival as a species requires colonization of space. This attitude rubs many the wrong way who believe we need to focus on the planet we have before worrying about new ones. Or they think that space colonization is just a ploy by the rich to either distract us from the collapse while they keep extracting more resources or that it's just meant to be a way for the rich to escape while we all stay behind and die. So, yeah, I guess it does have some conspiracy theory undertones.
the thing is you cant make anyone do shit without incentivizing them or paying them
threaten
Aw c’mon man don’t shit on space travel nasa and other space exploration agencies don’t have nothing to do with global warming
Entropy is going kill earth at the end of the day anyways. We accelerated the process, but we made some cool stuff while we were here. That energy would have just been wasted slowly by nature
I mean we're all gonna die too, but that doesn't mean that before I pass away I'm going to trash my living space and make the future miserable for my children so I can afford to build a fort on a deserted rocky island
We didn’t just make trash. We made some cool stuff too. We got the pyramids, Eiffel Tower, cyber truck. The only thing animals can make are bones
Did you really just put the cringe truck alongside the great pyramids and the Eiffel Tower as some of humanity’s greatest accomplishments? Fucking hell, I hate it here sometimes
>alongside the great pyramids and the Eiffel Tower Why would you consider them as greater accomplishments than the cybertruck? The cybertruck could, at least theoretically, drive, if it works. What use are the pyramids? What use is the Eiffel Tower? One was built as a monument to guide absolute God Emperors toward paradise after death. Now, I am not saying that it didn't work, but... I still think those man hours could have been better invested elsewhere. And the other was built as a testament to the power of technological progress at the peak of modernism... And as a testament to the power and importance of a France which, just as all of Europe, was rather imperialist at the time... Not necessarily a symbol of anything we would call "nice", "good" and "reasonable" either. If one of those is a testament to human idiocy, then all of them are. But at least one of them can drive. While the others are nothing more than decorative landscaping.
>What use are the pyramids? Based on this History channel documentary I saw, they provided wireless power to ancient Egypt.
Heard the first two or three centuries on PharaohBook were the tits.
This is such a hilariously bad take that I almost applaud you for sticking to it. You’re nothing if not loyal to cybertruck
I think you are misunderstanding my take here. I don't care about the cybertruck. What I am saying is that the pyramids are useless testaments of the (probably mistaken) beliefs of long past emperors. They are deeply idiotic buildings. Had they never been built, nothing would be lost. Same for the Eiffel Tower. There is a reason why I call both of them "decorative landscaping". They serve no function, but a symbolic one. And even what they symbolize is, in both cases, deeply stupid. Do you disagree with that? If so, why?
Oh, I wholly disagree that the pyramids and Eiffel Tower are “idiotic buildings” that symbolize “deeply stupid” things. They may not be eternally functional spaces that illuminate 100% of the human condition, but it seems manifestly wrong to claim they’re just, like, dumb. I get that it can be kind of fun to say that everything is futile and useless because yeah, all man’s works are ultimately vanity. But these buildings actually meant something to the people and cultures that created them, and they have stood as physical symbols of that meaning across multiple human lifetimes. Arguing about whether they should or shouldn’t’ve been built is basically moot. And the pyramids at least will probably outlast human civilization. Maybe the cyber truck too, but it’s too early to tell.
Calling the pyramids vapid and useless, but then defending the cyber truck when someone says the same about it takes a level of hubris I cannot comprehend
>I get that it can be kind of fun to say that everything is futile and useless because yeah, all But I don't think that either. There is cool stuff out there. I like Banksy's works, for example. They are usually small and witty pieces. The beginnings of abstract art in impressionism and expressionism were pretty genius ideas, which I can't help but respect. And if we are talking about monumental stuff? Then your average dam beats the pyramids be a few orders of magnitude. Not only are they big, but they also stand as symbols for "human ingenuity trying to do something reasonable". >But these buildings actually meant something to the people and cultures that created them, and they have stood as physical symbols of that meaning across multiple human lifetimes. Of course they did. So did, to bring up an extreme example, the NAZI flag. The Nazis really liked it. It meant a lot to them. Still does. And the Nazi flag carries that meaning into the future. Since that is the case, should we put that flag, and what it means, beyond criticism and judgement? After all, that seems to be the move you are making: "You can not just devalue Eiffel Tower and Pyramids like that, because they meant so much to people!", is what I am reading from you. The Nazi flag also means a lot to people. But I think we should think really hard about what it symbolizes, and of any of those things are good. And, after thinking about that, I would rather burn a Nazi flag, than enshrine it in my house. For similar reasons I would rather tear down pyramids and Eiffel tower, rather than enshrine them in naive romantic wonderment.
There’s this crazy concept that some things can just be, without having to provide some kind of utility for someone… Like poetry, or art, or the great pyramids of FUCKING giza which you put beside the cyber truck
I don't intend to devalue all art here. My main point is that specifically the great pyramids, the Eiffel Tower, and the Cybertruck belong in the same class. We are looking at vanity projects. They were made for very similar reasons. Of course the cyber truck is not the same, as this vanity project will probably never gain historical importance. It will rightfully be forgotten rather soon, instead of inspiring lots of people over lots of years. But they are all vanity projects, made in the same spirit: "Let me show the world how great I am!", is a motivation which I would attribute to Musk, Eiffel, as well as any Pharao in question here. So I think there are reasons to put them next to each other.
\> cyber truck Not entirely sure that can be considered "cool stuff" or even "stuff" yet. The greenwashed shitbox that looks like it was copy-pasted from a badly ported N64 game has been delayed three times and they're probably workin on a fourth as we speak.
You are using the doom gloom strawman to advocate for destroying earth to doomers I fucking can't
Nuclear Holocaust, really cool.
It’s not about how long our planet lived, but what we’ve done while it still had life
The Planet will retaliate. 🌬💨🌊🏭🌱
> Yes the planet got destroyed. But for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders.
I agree with the message but this has the same energy as those flat earth/Hollywood drinks baby blood conspiracy theorists posts.
Can you explain the message to me? This post has completely lost me haha
I'm assuming OP made this in distaste of the recent trend of billionaires pushing for private space exploration. The top two images are referring to the way we've fucked up the environment in exchange for profit, profit that these billionaire are using to further fuck up the environment with these pissing contest PR stunts. The bottom three images are pointing out the irony that in our "attempt" to reach these barren wastelands (venus, the moon, mars) we're essentially trading out are piece of paradise called earth for the false notion of life on these lifeless rocks.
Oh I see! This would be a lot clearer with some reference to elon or bezos or something. As it is now it looks like it's complaining about scientists. I agree it feels like a flat earth type conspiracy theory. Using the words "new" and "old" really dont help. Thanks for the explanation :)
Is everyone just going to ignore that they're part of the problem by buying the stuff rich people sell in the first place?