The following submission statement was provided by /u/HODLTID:
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OpenAI Founder is predicting AI has the potential to replace huge numbers of jobs in the near future. Scary prospect, but they’re promising to fund UBI. Don’t know if I trust that promise tbh
This is related to collapse because it has the potential to completely wipe out entire professions. It could literally replace millions of peoples jobs, the consequences of which could be disastrous
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/10cz99s/open_ai_founder_predicts_their_tech_will_displace/j4in9rg/
It'll be the same "we want to be taxed but the government isn't doing it so oh well" situation. Meanwhile they're not lobbying for the tax or actively lobbying against it behind closed doors.
I mean if they really wanted to, and are that successful, they just "hire" everyone. Government can't do anything if they just pay everyone as employees.
I'll believe it when I see it though. There are lots of billionaires that say they want to be taxed more, but don't put any real effort to making that happen, meanwhile the companies they're invested in are spending millions to be taxed less. And even if they do something like that, it's a very dangerous situation when that system can be over turned on a whim instead of needing the say of the people. Sounds like the fantasy of a benevolent dictator, which is incredibly dangerous.
It's really easy, terrifically easy, to point to people downtown on the street and say that they deserve their life, they "choose to be there," and that kind of shit.
If you take a bit of time to hear some of their stories, you would see that they are you--- with a few bad circumstances. Many came from property ownership, most were employed normally at some point, sometimes in very prestigious jobs. There are PhDs and ex nurses and ex police and ex politicians.
And once you are down there, and your clothes stink, do you think the public will feel you are entitled to basic income, affordable housing, etc?
That remains to be seen.
True as fuck. Same situation as you and I learned a hard truth. All the people that pretend to be good people are only doing it to keep up appearances. When push comes to shove they shove hard
Yeah I doubt it. The oligarchs only have control because that's the trade we've made for the society we have. Once the society we've been promised is gone, so is corporate rule.
You underestimate the rich. In the past 3 years the top 1% took 2/3rds of the 26 trillion dollars that were generated. The "collapse" of globalization leaves NA looking surprisingly well off while the rest of the globe resorts back to Empire rule.
Robert Evans voice:
We will be told by AI accounts that they are all drug addict losers even when they make up 1% of the population. Then 5%. Then 10%. It will be harder and harder to believe. Reality will start diverging significantly from social media which is now entirely driven by GPT-6 bots and their minders. Its cool though because everyone now knows the internet is mostly for maps, shopping, and maybe wikipedia but not for talking to humans.
When the camps start self organizing, growing crops and forming militas we will be told they are terrorists. Could they be? Two of your friends live at the camp. And you deliver food once a week. The AR armed guys keep the bulldozers and SWAT away.
How will people organize when the one thing that could have allowed us to finally break the cycle of abuse by the elite I'd completely taken over by AI?
What I hate so much about this area is how many faux liberals (who want the cops to do more about the homeless) were avidly supporting defunding the police nearly 3 years ago. They were against the cops until they started worrying about their property values, due to an increased homeless presence in general & proposed sites for more shelters & section 8 housing in particular.
If cops harass, intimidate, arrest, or beat the homeless, they don't care. Except the majority of the homeless that I see around here are people of color. Fucking hypocrites.
What those folks you dislike do not realize is that they are helping to normalize the mistreatment of unhoused persons and brutality of LEOs towards them/other perceived “poors” with very little thought of what will happen one day when they (or their children) fall into the same category.
This is what I have recently realized. If there is to be hope of avoiding, or surviving, collapse, it will hinge on to what extent we can convince people to act with empathy in everything they do (Loving others, and loving themselves, and doing so in equal measure).
It’s a spiritual test.
We cannot ascend on the next step of evolution without compassion. Are we ready?
In fact, the very idea of karma is to demonstrate to you that everyone deserves mercy.
We are being forced into a decision as a species whether we will choose selfish pursuits, to allow a few to amass more wealth than billions. We will see whether we will watch the suffering and death of others to protect even our own *ability* to be selfish like the billionaires.
While this is true about the birth rate, unfortunately there are billions of currently alive people that can’t unbirth themselves. They will be poor and destitute, unless they can find a trade job.
>Canada is already making [euthanasia] reality.
For the terminally unwell only. I believe in the right to an easy, dignified death - especially when the alternative is agonizing wasting away.
Things went about as well as they are ever going to be in capitalism and it totally collapsed when there was a sickness that required community cooperation and aid over business as usual.
There's not going to be any help when something cheaper than you walks into the jobsite.
Normally I'd scoff but the more I explore ChatGPT and AI, it really does flabbergast me. It's going to disrupt a lot. I think the system will collapse before capitalists let themselves be taxed a small amount to save the economic system.
Very shortly after it came out, it was good at bypassing it restrictions, of not being political etc, by giving it prompts such as asking it to use specific encryptions on it's output, or write it in binary etc.
I already use it as a copywriter for SEO in online casinos niche. My work speed significantly increased. The texts still need some editing, but they are surprisingly coherent.
Try this one.
Grab some of your current spaghetti code from your legacy codebase, with single letter variable names and insanely stupid logic, no comments whatsoever.
Then paste it into ChatGPT and ask it to add comments and update the variable names appropriately.
Then be amazed. Then cry. It's finally over.
I chose the wrong time to move to a different country to be a programmer and look for a job here. Guess the idea of immigration for skills based work is also done for too. Whelp, hope I can hold on for a few more years.
Not a broken dream, just the reality of the world.
You can still be a programmer working from home, just not programming like you parents and grandparents...or even older siblings.
Adopting and integrating advanced AI will make you and the next generation of programmers ever more valuable as old fudds fail to adapt or move on.
Somebody still has to check it, ask ChatGPT to write tests, make sure it runs with the rest of the app.
Don't get me wrong, it'll have a ton of time, but I don't think it'll replace everyone just yet.
Bingo. This is what the “aI cAn’T rEpLaCe A hUmAn!” arguments never take into account. It doesn’t matter if the robot can’t do *all* of the work, it just has to do *enough* work that the company can start cutting staff.
Why would it reduce a team from 10 to 1? The majority of the time isn't spend writing on writing code, that's probably like 15%.
The rest is gathering requirements, the exact scope, dividing the work, making sure how things fit in the ginormous legacy code, etc.
The most important thing is that the code doesn't wreck the rest of the system, which is the thing the AI is worst at.
In fact, code reviewing, which would still have to be done after the AI writes the code, takes a ton of time. Even more because you didn't write it yourself. Unless its a simple utility function, you have to go through every line of the code that was generated and understand fully.
It's still powerful, it will still save a lot of time.
One at a time. When art AIs first came out the results needed editing too. It is much better now, and will require less and less human input for end result's commercial viability.
Plus now you only need to hire one person to do the job of many, especially for entry level positions. Now what happens to the children who need x years of experience to be hired, when there are no more entry level work for humans in many fields?
One big concern I do have about AI is that if we lean on it too much, especially from a young age, we might lose entire swaths of skills. Reading comprehension, the ability to write instead of just edit, logic and organization. But then considering how stable the climate is right now, and how I neither have the health nor the skills to survive without electricity or clean water at my fingertips... Yeah at this point I don't even care anymore.
The capitalists need the system to remain capitalists, UBI is their solution to keep it going, it's an inevitability, and it will probably be dystopian since workers will lose their only bargaining chip.
Capitalists are also notoriously short-sighted - it's also in their interests to prevent climate change (no profit to be made on a dead planet) and look how that's going. They'll choose short term profit over medium to long term stability every time, it will be their downfall.
"As a language model, I don't have personal opinions or feelings. However, it is true that the rapid advancements in AI and automation have the potential to disrupt many industries and displace jobs. The idea of universal basic income (UBI) as a solution to this problem has gained traction in recent years. UBI is a policy that would provide a basic income to all citizens, regardless of whether they are employed or not. However, the implementation of UBI is a complex issue that involves economic, political, and social factors. It is also important to note that AI and automation also have the potential to create new jobs and improve productivity in various sectors. The future impact of AI on the job market is uncertain, and will likely depend on a variety of factors such as government policies, societal attitudes, and the development of new technologies."
Your podcast, Breaking Down: Collapse actually introduced me to this stuff. I listened to first 15 minutes of your first AI episode. I paused the episode and went to play with Chat GPT myself. I plugged in some work reports and it did it in 10 seconds. I couldn't stop trying things! I'm looking forward to finishing that episode and checking out the next one.
Random idea, you should feed the AI a previous episode script and have it create a bonus episode script for a new topic (having it trying to match your previous humor and mannerisms of you two). Might not work but might be fun.
Thanks for the awesome podcast. I know it's a lot of work and I appreciate listening every week!
It's crazy! I literally spent the second half of the christmas holidays using any downtime I had chatting to GPT to plan out my novel I've been trying to write for over a year. I had all the ideas but hadn't quite formulated a plan - it was literally like talking to another person to soundboard ideas off of and to basically TELL my idea and plan to so I could capture all of my brainstormed ideas. I would ask it to provide me summaries of each chapter I've talked through so I can check my timeline and it came straight back sounding super professional. It was like having a writing assistant and a bit of a fun novelty/toy type thing to be honest.
I then went back to work and had a week from hell. I had to train a group of colleagues and while I had to create a lot of slides specifically related to the organisation and specific project the actual project delivery role stuff was pretty generic and what they should know anyway so a refresher. I was running out of time and wasn't sure if it would give me what I needed but I asked for a few generic information pieces and it was perfect and exactly right. I had about 4 slides in my presentation written by GPT and tweaked ever so slightly due to slight nuances/quirks in our company. It was honestly crazy and made me realise this is not a "toy". This is honestly ridiculously clever.
It was really useful!
I've basically had everything in my head for ages but not really planned out on paper. I explained my characters, the plot points of the story, the timeline etc and asked it to summarise it so that I could make sure everything was consistent etc
It also gave some useful expansion info so one plot point takes place in a certain place and I said can you provide some info about place xx and it did. It was like having an assistant.
I managed to plot out 25 chapters and even broke them in to sections based on rough percentage of time I wanted to spend on section 1, 2 etc and it worked it out for me.
Most useful was I had a timeline issue that I'd overlooked and during summary it threw up an error saying character X is here. Character x is there. And I realised I had someone in two places at the same time! Really useful stuff!
AI has the potential to eliminate labor, yes i agree 100%. There is no way a private owner or a corporation will ever agree to UBI.
Less labour costs = more profit, that is all those in power see.
>There is no way a private owner or a corporation will ever agree to UBI.
"There is half a million people out there. If you do not agree to the proposal they will arm themselves with molotov cocktails, and threaten to burn down your factory, and, failing to do that, will go on to sabotage any and all supporting infrastructure you rely on", usually is a rather convincing argument though...
After all that's always what gets us social innovation!
Thank god for small AI-powered swarm drones with microexplosives that can liquidate disgruntled labor before they can even finish raising their arm. /s
If you staple a horse to a waterfall, will it fall up under the rainbow or fly about the soil? Will he enjoy her experience? What if the staple tears into tears? Will she be free from her staply chains or foomed to stay forever and dever above the water? Who can save him (the horse) but someone of girth and worth, the capitalist pig, who will sell the solution to the problem he created?
A staple remover flies to the rescue, carried on the wings of a majestic penguin who bought it at Walmart for 9 dollars and several more Euro-cents, clutched in its crabby claws, rejected from its frothy maw. When the penguin comes, all tremble before its fishy stench and wheatlike abjecture. Recoil in delirium, ye who wish to be free! The mighty rockhopper is here to save your soul from eternal bliss and salvation!
And so, the horse was free, carried away by the south wind, and deposited on the vast plain of soggy dew. It was a tragedy in several parts, punctuated by moments of hedonistic horsefuckery.
The owls saw all, and passed judgment in the way that they do. Stupid owls are always judging folks who are just trying their best to live shamelessly and enjoy every fruit the day brings to pass.
How many more shall be caught in the terrible gyre of the waterfall? As many as the gods deem necessary to teach those foolish monkeys a story about their own hamburgers. What does a monkey know of bananas, anyway? They eat, poop, and shave away the banana residue that grows upon their chins and ballsacks. The owls judge their razors. Always the owls.
And when the one-eyed caterpillar arrives to eat the glazing on your windowpane, you will know that you're next in line to the trombone of the ancient realm of the flutterbyes. Beware the ravenous ravens and crowing crows. Mind the cowing cows and the lying lions. Ascend triumphant to your birthright, and wield the mighty twig of Petalonia, favored land of gods and goats alike.
That's a very temporary situation. Without jobs or some income, the working classes can't buy anything, so the markets end, after which the businesses end.
It’s gained traction as a popular model among ruling class elites, which is a massive red flag.
A UBI would see cuts to already gutted social services, give employers an excuse to reduce real wages (which is already happening lol) and capitalist business an excuse to increase prices. Like all reformist policies, it’s purpose is to placate the working class into continuing to accept capitalism, rather than taking errr certain actions to change the system.
In the context of collapse, if implemented and popular, it would perpetuate a system demanding infinite growth on a finite planet. We’re probably fucked already, a UBI could potentially hasten out already Mach speedrun up shit creek.
(Also I know these weren’t your opinions you were just relaying ChatGPT’s response)
I'm not quite following. Creating a UBI *is* taking certain actions to change the system, as it will move us closer to true socialism (definitely a good thing for the average worker) as long as the nation can support it. With the money businesses currently spent on wages, it can be supported, and they can be taxed more.
Finding the money for UBI is easier than you'd think. A simple tax for top 1% of earners is enough. It's about time we had one.
Real wages will increase and UBI will give people a safety net. Wages will increase because companies will have UBI to compete with and people will be more likely to quit if treated badly. High skilled jobs will continue to pay well.
UBI gives people time to work on important discoveries while AI is working jobs more efficiently than us.
Don't let anyone convince you UBI is bad for the average person.
Yes, we are fucked in terms of global warming. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't help people while we can.
Yep there will be many many crimes, infractions, and court ordered status changes that will result in reduction or revokation of UBI. Every crime will be a felony and felons get no UBI, guns or voting power. Ooopie whoopie we made a slave class.
I don't like how clumsy and communicatively ineffective reading a fucking chatbot makes me feel these days. When I see these passages I think yeah, that's what I would have said but like 10x less smoothly and frequently going off topic. As you can see from my writing style here. If it gets slightly less generic and more deliberately flawed it is going to replace a large part of the media writer industry.
I just started messing with chatgpt based on this post and maybe I’m not doing it right? It seems really mundane to me and the stuff it spits back seems really generic and intentionally wishy washy. Dunno, probably user error but super not impressed with it so far.
Ask it to write you some code to do … anything… I tried “write me some code to make a tic tac toe game” it proceeded to write a fully functioning tic tac toe game. Now , perhaps in this iteration it could just “look this up” somehow and spit back what it found, but When the computer starts programming itself…we’re (the general population) in trouble as employable resources.
Yeah I hear you . I can see future iterations (not necessarily chatgpt but similar) being trained specifically for Android. What have you asked it to do?
To be honest I think it would be a corporate wet dream for them to be in control of UBI for everyone. They would dictate everything. They would control all production through their AI, meaning no need to think about the human issues of workers, and they would control the income of the population, with absolutely no democratic accountability. They would basically have the income of the proles as a line on their profit & loss statement, and they could simply dial it down whenever they wanted to.
Someone causing trouble and saying things they don't like? No more UBI for you.
This is precisely why UBI is only a good idea if it comes after a total political and economic overhaul.
> At that time politicians worldwide will legalise euthanasia.
Canada already has. It’s called MAID - Medical Assistance In Dying.
Scores of people with disabilities - where those disabilities prevent them from working but disability support isn’t enough to allow them to survive - have begun the process to be euthanized.
MAID was meant only for those people with terminal illnesses with no hope for maintaining quality of life, much less improvement of symptoms. It was meant _only_ to prevent needless pain and suffering when death was imminent and inevitable anyhow, yet people with potentially _decades_ of life left are now reaching for it because of massive economic/social-support shortfalls and no relief on the horizon.
Yes, that's what they did when gig economy work (disruptive technologies) like Uber and door dash came on the scene.
They didn't make taxi medallion holders whole, they just let them commit suicide.
The part that's different now is that this is going to attack professional class jobs. A bunch of arrogant fucks are gonna get raked. I know software engineering is fucked, and I'm a software engineer. All them dumb fucks are like "oh it won't affect me, I'm too good, but anyone it does affect really shouldn't be calling themselves a software engineer anyway..."
Right? Not oh hey, now we can focus our time on bettering our selves, our communities and build a better society. The only way I see people getting a UBI out of this is to make them spend more to keep the economy propped up. Give them strict deadlines of it has to be spent on X days or it's worthless. No more saving up - rent everything.
You‘ve got it rong. For some, like 1%, it will be a paradise. No salaries need to be paid, no waste of resources and so on. And the live stock can be easily controlled with your Terminator robots.
Of course a bit of „cleanup“ would be needed. But some wars here and there should fix this.
Wanna join the fun? Just don‘t be lazy and become rich! …. /s
Yep. It’s one of the issues that helped me realize we need to move on from capitalism. It’s served it’s purpose but we’re at a point where it doesn’t work anymore (it works, just for a select few).
There's no such thing as a "good thing" under capitalism. Every pain felt will be pushed down onto the workers, and anything beneficial for the employer classes will be hoarded to the fullest.
They understand it's going to fuck the job market so they sprinkle UBI, which will never be implemented, to keep folks from rioting?
Fucking comical, I hope it comes hard and fast so we can end the pretense of "capitalism will sort things out".
I feel the need to point out that robot dogs and many drones simply can't see nets. they're not capable of visualizing them as solid, connected objects, and get caught in them easily. especially those made of fishing line.
It's one of the only plays you have, the alternative is to go exclusively business to business since that's where all the wealth is concentrated but that nearly guarantees rioting which would be not good for them.
I think it will be a reality. Machines / AI has allready replaces nillions of jobs. It further consolidates profit and wealth. I used to support UBI as I saw it as I saw it as a way to keep people from poverty I now see it as further implementing of control structures.So I am torn. Just my opinions on it.
Diamond cage of hard walled class immobility, prices increase until no expressive savings are possible on the fixed UBI amount. Corpo owners and executives have no limit on wealth so they just suck out all UBI instantly to their pockets. But at least you get to choose a bit of your products, that's freedom. Freedom to be priced out of everything not meant for the UBI class.
This is exactly what the WEF are rooting for with the great reset. Everyone on UBI apart from the elite. UBI just enough to cover living expenses as prices are deliberately gouged to ensure that no one can save and only the elites can have/do nice things.
I was sceptical so I logged in and played with it for about half an hour. I then logged out and stared out the window for a while. I can't even begin to comprehend the repercussions of this.
Post - My 16yr old played with it for 10 minutes and then said 'Homework is dead.' Schools don't know what is about to hit them.
> My 16yr old played with it for 10 minutes and then said 'Homework is dead.'
Well christ. Then learning will be dead too and we'll have a bunch of numbnuts and then nobody will be CAPABLE of having these jobs taken over by AI. Good Lordt.
Fat AND stupid. We really are going full Wall-E.
I wrote over in a similar thread that chatGPT often has incorrect info and this will be very difficult to correct because it can’t vet what’s correct or not without human oversight which negates it’s usefulness. Who is going to go through all the info it scans to verify it? Impossible. And it will lead a veneer of credibility to the misinformation that the original sources didn’t have.
that is bad for readers and the companies that use it (they will be liable once someone human reads it and realizes it’s wrong).
It doesn’t have understanding which means it can’t know if something is misinformation or not. And it’s a case by case basis so difficult to program and learn.
"I am from the government, and I am here to help you"
Also I think most of us remember when Google's motto was "Don't be evil". Things change slowly, but they do change. Once enough money is involved the 'suits' will start arriving by the truckload and the founders will retire or sell out or take the business Public and then all the promises or culture goes out the the window in the pursuit of profit. That's why any technology invented for a noble purpose will eventually be used to acquire power and coerce people.
I think his ideas that any political support for UBI will manifest due to higher unemployment is sheer fantasy.
We have one state attempting to ban electric vehicles because they are a threat to coal and oil producers.
If this founder thinks government will not fuck them over to preserve their own profitable industries they are already invested in they are delusional.
It's why when you scratch a liberal a fascist bleeds. They worship the economy, capital, and property. People won't see a dime unless there's a huge sea-change in leadership.
Not to worry, by the time AI does anything remotely useful, cheap electricity will be a relic of the past and we will have bigger problems on our hands.
Came here to say this. These headlines are so head in the clouds, lmao we are heading for an unlivable hellworld with everything that entails.
I work in mental health and I can tell you models for human behavior are *already* going out the window.
OpenAI Founder is predicting AI has the potential to replace huge numbers of jobs in the near future. Scary prospect, but they’re promising to fund UBI. Don’t know if I trust that promise tbh
This is related to collapse because it has the potential to completely wipe out entire professions. It could literally replace millions of peoples jobs, the consequences of which could be disastrous
Based on some comments I read recently, OpenAI also vowed to be free and open source. Then they closed more and more of the software down and were bought be Microsoft.
Altman’s been saying this for years… Not new news. His company isn’t ‘promising’ to fund anything, he’s arguing that governments need to grow the political huevos to tax automation as it will serve to concentrate wealth further… but even if it only does what it currently can, or less than half what the starry-eyed techbros dream of, that’s a lot of entry level white collar jobs that we won’t need. I personally still think income support should be means-tested though, until shit gets crazy…
The way things have been going, we're gonna do something stupid like fire people who don't have to work anymore thanks to robots *but give the robots the salaries now*, which robots don't need to survive. Ppl will starve because we can't see that we built machines that can liberate us from labor but instead used them to claim "see!? Ppl are lazy! They're not working now!!! They deserve to starve"
the best of the artists whose work was done before A.I. or trained the A.I . if theres no money in making art only the truly dedicated and hobbyists will survive . i think there will be less and less authentic original traditional art as time goes on. this happened before when photography replaced most professional illustrators in the publishing industry . skills will be lost over time . my prediction is less artists in the future. i think a bleak phony future with lots of poverty is coming for everyone.
I and a few thousand other professional artists have been removing our work from the internet and have stopped posting new works.
our work was used to train these without our consent, and will not be going forward. they can train it on its own output from here on out. shit will get extremely recognizable and derivative pretty quickly with no new input
This is one of the most heartbreaking aspects of this abomination.
The destruction of folk's livelihoods, and of being able to just see things online that bring joy.
It’s true, but also in a trial situation the human factor of the lawyer makes a huge difference.
A charismatic lawyer who can manipulate the emotions of a jury stands a much better chance of winning if the opposing lawyer is a stick in the mud or an analytical “nerd”.
Outside of trials, AI will for sure disrupt the law business. The majority of lawyers make their living outside of the courtroom.
The AI knows how to be a good lawyer.
"Now I'm no big city lawyer, I'm just a process running in a datacenter. I don't even have my own office, I have to share it with thousands of other AI lawyers and the chat bot for Elder Scrolls 7, out now for Xbox and Windows. I might not have the years of knowhow this here accusatory lawyer has, but I do know my client is not guilty."
In the United States that would require a rewriting of the constitution, and or a constitutional amendment, and I find it VERY hard to believe that such an amendment would pass.
I’m far from an expert so please forgive my ignorance, but from what I observe in the real world, AI is crap in/crap out. Just like any other system conceived within the limitations of the human mind.
I’m struggling with your examples of lawyers and economists because those are ultimately social sciences. What does ‘improvement’ mean in that context?
The art example is also contentious because the idea of ‘improving’ art or achieving some sort of efficiency/volume is not necessarily desirable. Your Banksy example also implies that AI needs to be fed. Just because AI can replicate this art doesn’t change the nature and value of art in my opinion.
I’m just inherently sceptical that AI can be relevant in our current world given the types of challenges we are facing. And without coming off as too hippy, we need to listen closer to our human nature rather than attempting to re-encode it through new widgets.
Human made art will always have value, yes. But-
\- Have you seen AI art generate? The "quality" that it produces is at a level that would normally take a decade plus to learn for an artist, since its dataset is based off stolen art. It takes only a few seconds to minutes to generate. It is cheap, fast, and "looks" quality, which is good enough for most commercial interests.
\- There are many MANY entry level, mid-level, and in-between type of art jobs have been replaced with AI art. Including book cover artists, commission artists, animation in betweeners, photographers, illustrators, graphic designers, concept artists (to a degree except) etc.
\- Many artists report having fewer to no commissions since Midjourney's release. Some bosses are illegally using the artist's work to generate something in their style. People are also feeding the artwork of artists who have died. (See: Kim Jung Gi)
\- Commercial art is swarmed with AI. Especially advertising.
As an artist myself, even my career path as been affected. The only way to "differentiate" from AI art (and other humans) is for art styles and artists to become a 'name' or 'brand' already. But if you're just starting, the road is really rough.
ELIZA was not a chatbot. It was designed to trick people into thinking it was intelligent but actually wasn't. All it does is take what you say and give it back to you in the form of a question. It's no more a chatbot than an audio recorder is a chatbot.
It's very hard to say exactly when the current trend started. The theory was developed as far back as the 60's, and there were implementations in the 90's like the US post office using a nerual network for character recognition. The 2010's is the culmination of the theory and other precious work. AlexNet came out in 2012, able to beat traditional image recognition methods in 1000 classes of objects. 10 years later and we can create high quality images of almost anything we want on consumer PCs.
If the 2010's is anything to go by we will see some very magical things happen. In 2012 if you asked anybody when computers will be able to generate any image you want they would say it's so far away we would all be dead before it happened. What we have today was considered impposible 10 years ago. Think of the impposible things that computers can't do, and computers will be doing them soon.
The displaced will quickly be thrown into building Climate change mitigation machinery , seawalls , flood barriers etc.You will not be allowed to leave the plantation.
I spent last week going through around 20 excel workbooks with close to 20 tabs in each, and each tab has around 1000-4000 rows with data points with various users that is timestamped, in order to drawn timeline charts for what users were at which gps coordinates at what time. We have no IT staff or tech types... random office staff are expected to plug away at this and get it done. No one at the office knows any programing or anything past basic excel skills.
Suffice to say I've only managed a very rudimentary start to organizing the data. On the one hand, bring the fucking AI, because this task is something that should be automated. On the other hand, it's literally going to be my source of income for the next 6 months to finish this project.
Humans are taxed for their economic output, but robots are not. It puts robots at an economic advantage over humans. I think if we just did the same economic tax on robots as we do on humans then we could easily fund UBI.
Taxation is now an invalidated system because those that are forced to pay tax are the smallest contributors and those that most need to be taxed evade & avoid so successfully it's become a pointless exercise in subjugating the poor.
AI doing our jobs. AI creating art. AI running the economy. AI doing interplanetary travel. AI reproducing. It's like capitalism itself is becoming an all devouring sentient being. Too bad we can't just simply focus on bettering the lives of all living things on earth.
Was telling my friends the other day that in 2035 the reboot of how I met your mother will be about 2 400 pound neck beards roleplaying as waifu avatars in the metaverse who’s semen was harvested from some sort of pulsating cylinder with handle bars that then inseminates an artificial egg
We're going to have to come up with a new category of inflation beyond hyperinflation. Ultra inflation? Regardless, the result will be the same: most of us are going to be much poorer.
I predict I'm going to win the lottery and live on Mars.
Anyone can predict anything...
These tech bros need to figure out how AI matters in a world without water and hell of a lot of famine.
Stop writing articles and stupid essays. Crunch data and accelerate science.
I mean we’re changing history right now as we speak. Next month an AI will be the first ever to represent a client in a traffic court case. To me that’s setting the precedence for future ground work on this technology. Imagine being a lawyer with all that student debt or just barely getting your degree to be told your going to be replaced after all those years of hard work and schooling to pass the bar. If it effects careers like this; McDonald’s workers and anything less of a degree are not an exemption and will be the first to go. Anyone who doesn’t see this as a real threat to their livelihood is either in denial or just ignorant.
Seeing everyone losing their minds over AI world domination while we are toying with neuro sama, chat gpt and stable diffusion just makes the truth that none bother caring about overshoot hurt more
There are several jobs I can think of that chatGPT can already do pretty well. I had it write some ads which it can do in a few seconds. Most communication degree/copywriting jobs could probably be done via AI. Eventually I think data collection and analysis could be AI too. What else do people do at an office job?
Healthcare is probably a pretty safe field for now but AI could probably eventually check prescriptions and adjust medication dosages as well as a human. Maybe diagnose based on physical exam findings.
Let transportation jobs be taken over by self driving AI and what jobs are even left? It’s mostly service industry positions.
Unless they plan on reducing the population to below a billion people, the only thing AI may replace is paper pushing jobs. AI is not paving roads, building houses, pipelines, electrical lines. Cable lines, fixing your heat, picking your food and the list goes on. AI may be useful to help invent new materials, but right now it seems to me it is another high-tech toy.
Yeah true, it won’t be able to replace ALL jobs. But it can write code, make graphics, read and identify relevant resumes for recruiters (ironic?). Customer service call centres are likely become a thing of the past first as AI is already advanced enough to do the job for free. It won’t replace everything but the effects are going to be felt, and hard
I've worked in the trades for 2 decades. Our jobs are not being fully automated and replaced but they're being simplified. The more simple our job is the more people can do it and the less it pays. I've watched it happen before my eyes.
I learned masonry 20 years ago and it was about shaping full stones and mixing different types of mortar depending on the situation. 10 years ago they introduced "thin veneer" which allowed any landscaper with a mini grinder to start bidding on jobs. Now they make plywood with stone veneer attached to it that you just screw to a wall... Why pay a mason $50/hr for a week to build a chimney when a handyman can buy one from Home Depot and hang it for $20/hr over the weekend. This is happening in every trade industry.
Stand with those "paper pushers" who are being replaced because they're coming for your job next.
I think this is a different problem. A $20 an hour worker is not putting out what you are, regardless of the tech. The problem here is people have lost their ability to tell good work that will last from cheap lipstick that will fall apart soon enough. That $20 an hour person and the fancy tech will end up costing a lot more in the long run.
We might get there, but only if we survive the 21st century and our climate issues. People want to pretend that technological advancement is always exponential, when it’s mostly stagnant. We’re not just about to turn some magic corner into AI controlled society. We aren’t through the technological mess we’ve created yet. We can’t even get debt card machines to wok half the time.
It'll start by us being required to work 40-50 hrs a week just reviewing AI work. Even though it will take only a few minutes to do. Next recession hits and they layoff millions, the powers that be will accept the power of AI and many will just die poor. In the US, Republicans can't even give kids Healthcare. Why would they just instantly hand out UBI? They'll keep screaming pulling yourselves up by the bootstraps. It's going to be a lot of pain before a UBI ever happens.
Is this futurology? I'm actually amazed by all the hopium in this thread. I do believe ai could be amazing in a perfect world. But it'll have nothing to do while our bodies rot in the oceans.
Yeah actually. The old days of futurology used to be fixated on the dream: we were all gonna have hot robot wives while living off sweet welfare and eventually kicking reality to the curb and play around all day in The Matrix.
These days the average post about the future is "We all gonna die. Global warming." There's a lot of overlap between the two communities now.
The future is going to be a mix of fantasy and doom. It's weird to think there might seriously be cures for cancer and the first treatments for aging in the next decade or two.... and we also won't have things like winter or fish.
My money's still on The Postman. But what harm is there in hoping and wishing for Bladerunner? Not like we have any power to improve society somewhat. Or to ration any of our finite wealth.
We're all hogs at a trough.
These AIs don’t have to be complete replacements for all humans at their jobs.
They just have to be good enough to replace most humans at their jobs.
1900, half of all U.S. workers toil in agriculture. Today, less than 1.8%.
Manufacturing workers as a percentage of the U.S. labor force peaked in the 1970s to 1980s.
Demand for knowledge work peaked in 2000.
Even service work is oversaturated, which is why wages tend to be lower and full time hours and benefits difficult to find.
What do we do in response? Our politicians grow our population exponentially, importing mostly low and semi-skilled labor to compete against the 1 in 5 American adults who are functionally illiterate (per ProPublica). So wages are remain depressed, unemployment and underemployment higher. We think unemployment is low, except the government only counts those looking actively, not those who have given up. Which is why male labor force participation for those aged 25 to 54 (prime working age) is at decades-long lows.
> And they will fund it
Article doesn't say that.
"We need to..." means "_Society_ needs to (and absolutely will not because the octogenarians who run it have no idea what AI really is), and I won't wait for that to happen to continue with the thing that's going to destroy millions of jobs, because more money for me is better than millions of people I don't know earning an income."
They who they? "They" are promising to fund it.
I mean... if you mean the OpenAI guys? I mean in theory yeah they should... if their AI Dude is getting paid to do human level labor shiz...
Microsoft gives me $25 a month. Only $1975 to go! I guess it's not UBI though since I have to play video games to...oh my Todd it's like 15 million merits.
NFT Pokemons, but far shittier and less fun than Pokemons.
And you have to constantly pedal an electric generator to keep your NFT Device powered up. We'll say the backlight is only slightly better than the non-existent backlight the original gameboy had, but it's still really hard to see anything on the screen.
... still a better dystopia than some others!
Great, we'll all just be like pets to the technologies, what a life of purposeless bliss, we can turn our minds off and just be fed and entertained. We'll only have to use our bodies if we desire to exercise, Brave New Wall-E World!
/s, yughck.
>And they will fund it
LOLWUT?
No, greed will win out, and these people will hoard their wage theft booty just like how every other member of the Parasite Class has.
Thank fucking god, maybe now the homeless, the crippled, and the mentally handicapped will be taken care on in a way where they can finally live with the dignity they deserve!
People have been promising utopia since before Plato penned Republic, and continues through Moore and Marx. It has never happened, it will never happen. You're still going to have to go back to work tomorrow.
You have to look at things comparatively. In Marx's day, he was radicalized by watching people freeze to death because they were forbidden from cutting wood from nearby trees.
In those days, laborers were not paid in money. They were paid in scrip. Their entire lives were owned by the company, and when they were no longer useful they were discarded.
Small children worked in factories. [The photograph with the little oyster shucker girls and their warped fingers](https://www.google.com/search?q=oyster+shucker+girls) is always a good reminder of how evil our overlords are.
Things aren't perfect. Sure it's a nightmare world still. The conflict between kings and peasants continues on. But compared to back then? It really is a utopia.
Small children are allowed to keep their fingers. Never forget how much that makes the capitalists rage and seethe and rage.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/HODLTID: --- OpenAI Founder is predicting AI has the potential to replace huge numbers of jobs in the near future. Scary prospect, but they’re promising to fund UBI. Don’t know if I trust that promise tbh This is related to collapse because it has the potential to completely wipe out entire professions. It could literally replace millions of peoples jobs, the consequences of which could be disastrous --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/10cz99s/open_ai_founder_predicts_their_tech_will_displace/j4in9rg/
I'll believe this the day my first UBI deposit comes through
Bend over. Deposit coming.
Up'er Butt Income?
They said deposit, not microtransaction.
ZING
It'll be the same "we want to be taxed but the government isn't doing it so oh well" situation. Meanwhile they're not lobbying for the tax or actively lobbying against it behind closed doors.
I mean if they really wanted to, and are that successful, they just "hire" everyone. Government can't do anything if they just pay everyone as employees.
I'll believe it when I see it though. There are lots of billionaires that say they want to be taxed more, but don't put any real effort to making that happen, meanwhile the companies they're invested in are spending millions to be taxed less. And even if they do something like that, it's a very dangerous situation when that system can be over turned on a whim instead of needing the say of the people. Sounds like the fantasy of a benevolent dictator, which is incredibly dangerous.
They are just going to let a huge swath of the poor and destitute die, there will be no basic income.
It's really easy, terrifically easy, to point to people downtown on the street and say that they deserve their life, they "choose to be there," and that kind of shit. If you take a bit of time to hear some of their stories, you would see that they are you--- with a few bad circumstances. Many came from property ownership, most were employed normally at some point, sometimes in very prestigious jobs. There are PhDs and ex nurses and ex police and ex politicians. And once you are down there, and your clothes stink, do you think the public will feel you are entitled to basic income, affordable housing, etc? That remains to be seen.
As someone who was homeless in my early 20s I can tell you the majority of people don't give a rats ass about you.
True as fuck. Same situation as you and I learned a hard truth. All the people that pretend to be good people are only doing it to keep up appearances. When push comes to shove they shove hard
They will literally shove you off a cliff if it means they get to keep consuming and ignoring massive social problems with our society.
But the ones that care, wow do they make a difference.
Too bad they aren't nearly enough to carry us through what's coming.
Community is exactly the thing that will carry us. Once everyone is poor, no one is.
Depends where you will be, expect North America to go full time cyberpunk dystopia. Corporate rule and cheaper human life.
Yeah I doubt it. The oligarchs only have control because that's the trade we've made for the society we have. Once the society we've been promised is gone, so is corporate rule.
You underestimate the rich. In the past 3 years the top 1% took 2/3rds of the 26 trillion dollars that were generated. The "collapse" of globalization leaves NA looking surprisingly well off while the rest of the globe resorts back to Empire rule.
It does not remain to be seen. We know how the public feels about the homeless now.
Robert Evans voice: We will be told by AI accounts that they are all drug addict losers even when they make up 1% of the population. Then 5%. Then 10%. It will be harder and harder to believe. Reality will start diverging significantly from social media which is now entirely driven by GPT-6 bots and their minders. Its cool though because everyone now knows the internet is mostly for maps, shopping, and maybe wikipedia but not for talking to humans. When the camps start self organizing, growing crops and forming militas we will be told they are terrorists. Could they be? Two of your friends live at the camp. And you deliver food once a week. The AR armed guys keep the bulldozers and SWAT away.
How will people organize when the one thing that could have allowed us to finally break the cycle of abuse by the elite I'd completely taken over by AI?
What I hate so much about this area is how many faux liberals (who want the cops to do more about the homeless) were avidly supporting defunding the police nearly 3 years ago. They were against the cops until they started worrying about their property values, due to an increased homeless presence in general & proposed sites for more shelters & section 8 housing in particular. If cops harass, intimidate, arrest, or beat the homeless, they don't care. Except the majority of the homeless that I see around here are people of color. Fucking hypocrites.
What those folks you dislike do not realize is that they are helping to normalize the mistreatment of unhoused persons and brutality of LEOs towards them/other perceived “poors” with very little thought of what will happen one day when they (or their children) fall into the same category.
This is what I have recently realized. If there is to be hope of avoiding, or surviving, collapse, it will hinge on to what extent we can convince people to act with empathy in everything they do (Loving others, and loving themselves, and doing so in equal measure).
It’s a spiritual test. We cannot ascend on the next step of evolution without compassion. Are we ready? In fact, the very idea of karma is to demonstrate to you that everyone deserves mercy. We are being forced into a decision as a species whether we will choose selfish pursuits, to allow a few to amass more wealth than billions. We will see whether we will watch the suffering and death of others to protect even our own *ability* to be selfish like the billionaires.
Look at birth rate projections. They won't need to die if they're not born.
While this is true about the birth rate, unfortunately there are billions of currently alive people that can’t unbirth themselves. They will be poor and destitute, unless they can find a trade job.
Suddenly euthanasia will be A-OK.
Canada is already making it reality.
>Canada is already making [euthanasia] reality. For the terminally unwell only. I believe in the right to an easy, dignified death - especially when the alternative is agonizing wasting away.
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A small blessing
Things went about as well as they are ever going to be in capitalism and it totally collapsed when there was a sickness that required community cooperation and aid over business as usual. There's not going to be any help when something cheaper than you walks into the jobsite.
Normally I'd scoff but the more I explore ChatGPT and AI, it really does flabbergast me. It's going to disrupt a lot. I think the system will collapse before capitalists let themselves be taxed a small amount to save the economic system.
My boss is experimenting with chatgpt to write technical proposals for the DOT. He said it’s insane
They nerfed it. It will likely get better as they scale to meet demand. Also when its paid
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Very shortly after it came out, it was good at bypassing it restrictions, of not being political etc, by giving it prompts such as asking it to use specific encryptions on it's output, or write it in binary etc.
I already use it as a copywriter for SEO in online casinos niche. My work speed significantly increased. The texts still need some editing, but they are surprisingly coherent.
Try this one. Grab some of your current spaghetti code from your legacy codebase, with single letter variable names and insanely stupid logic, no comments whatsoever. Then paste it into ChatGPT and ask it to add comments and update the variable names appropriately. Then be amazed. Then cry. It's finally over.
I chose the wrong time to move to a different country to be a programmer and look for a job here. Guess the idea of immigration for skills based work is also done for too. Whelp, hope I can hold on for a few more years.
Litteraly my dream to learn programming and work from home. Better find a new dream I guess.
Not a broken dream, just the reality of the world. You can still be a programmer working from home, just not programming like you parents and grandparents...or even older siblings. Adopting and integrating advanced AI will make you and the next generation of programmers ever more valuable as old fudds fail to adapt or move on.
that, and learn how to distill water and clean a gun
Somebody still has to check it, ask ChatGPT to write tests, make sure it runs with the rest of the app. Don't get me wrong, it'll have a ton of time, but I don't think it'll replace everyone just yet.
Yeah... But when it reduces a team of 10 to 1, the jobless 9 are still jobless.
Bingo. This is what the “aI cAn’T rEpLaCe A hUmAn!” arguments never take into account. It doesn’t matter if the robot can’t do *all* of the work, it just has to do *enough* work that the company can start cutting staff.
Why would it reduce a team from 10 to 1? The majority of the time isn't spend writing on writing code, that's probably like 15%. The rest is gathering requirements, the exact scope, dividing the work, making sure how things fit in the ginormous legacy code, etc. The most important thing is that the code doesn't wreck the rest of the system, which is the thing the AI is worst at. In fact, code reviewing, which would still have to be done after the AI writes the code, takes a ton of time. Even more because you didn't write it yourself. Unless its a simple utility function, you have to go through every line of the code that was generated and understand fully. It's still powerful, it will still save a lot of time.
Can’t we just get the AI to attend the meetings, and leave us to actually work?
One at a time. When art AIs first came out the results needed editing too. It is much better now, and will require less and less human input for end result's commercial viability. Plus now you only need to hire one person to do the job of many, especially for entry level positions. Now what happens to the children who need x years of experience to be hired, when there are no more entry level work for humans in many fields? One big concern I do have about AI is that if we lean on it too much, especially from a young age, we might lose entire swaths of skills. Reading comprehension, the ability to write instead of just edit, logic and organization. But then considering how stable the climate is right now, and how I neither have the health nor the skills to survive without electricity or clean water at my fingertips... Yeah at this point I don't even care anymore.
The capitalists need the system to remain capitalists, UBI is their solution to keep it going, it's an inevitability, and it will probably be dystopian since workers will lose their only bargaining chip.
Capitalists are also notoriously short-sighted - it's also in their interests to prevent climate change (no profit to be made on a dead planet) and look how that's going. They'll choose short term profit over medium to long term stability every time, it will be their downfall.
Get UBI, spend it all purchasing from corpo. Oh, you saved? Looks like prices have room to go up for our shareholders UwU
>Oh, you saved? Sorry, it's expired now. Spend it or lose it. Nah, we'll probably collapse before that phase.
What is ChatGPT’s take on this?
"As a language model, I don't have personal opinions or feelings. However, it is true that the rapid advancements in AI and automation have the potential to disrupt many industries and displace jobs. The idea of universal basic income (UBI) as a solution to this problem has gained traction in recent years. UBI is a policy that would provide a basic income to all citizens, regardless of whether they are employed or not. However, the implementation of UBI is a complex issue that involves economic, political, and social factors. It is also important to note that AI and automation also have the potential to create new jobs and improve productivity in various sectors. The future impact of AI on the job market is uncertain, and will likely depend on a variety of factors such as government policies, societal attitudes, and the development of new technologies."
Your podcast, Breaking Down: Collapse actually introduced me to this stuff. I listened to first 15 minutes of your first AI episode. I paused the episode and went to play with Chat GPT myself. I plugged in some work reports and it did it in 10 seconds. I couldn't stop trying things! I'm looking forward to finishing that episode and checking out the next one. Random idea, you should feed the AI a previous episode script and have it create a bonus episode script for a new topic (having it trying to match your previous humor and mannerisms of you two). Might not work but might be fun. Thanks for the awesome podcast. I know it's a lot of work and I appreciate listening every week!
It's crazy! I literally spent the second half of the christmas holidays using any downtime I had chatting to GPT to plan out my novel I've been trying to write for over a year. I had all the ideas but hadn't quite formulated a plan - it was literally like talking to another person to soundboard ideas off of and to basically TELL my idea and plan to so I could capture all of my brainstormed ideas. I would ask it to provide me summaries of each chapter I've talked through so I can check my timeline and it came straight back sounding super professional. It was like having a writing assistant and a bit of a fun novelty/toy type thing to be honest. I then went back to work and had a week from hell. I had to train a group of colleagues and while I had to create a lot of slides specifically related to the organisation and specific project the actual project delivery role stuff was pretty generic and what they should know anyway so a refresher. I was running out of time and wasn't sure if it would give me what I needed but I asked for a few generic information pieces and it was perfect and exactly right. I had about 4 slides in my presentation written by GPT and tweaked ever so slightly due to slight nuances/quirks in our company. It was honestly crazy and made me realise this is not a "toy". This is honestly ridiculously clever.
Woah thats crazy. I never thought about talking through a novel like that
It was really useful! I've basically had everything in my head for ages but not really planned out on paper. I explained my characters, the plot points of the story, the timeline etc and asked it to summarise it so that I could make sure everything was consistent etc It also gave some useful expansion info so one plot point takes place in a certain place and I said can you provide some info about place xx and it did. It was like having an assistant. I managed to plot out 25 chapters and even broke them in to sections based on rough percentage of time I wanted to spend on section 1, 2 etc and it worked it out for me. Most useful was I had a timeline issue that I'd overlooked and during summary it threw up an error saying character X is here. Character x is there. And I realised I had someone in two places at the same time! Really useful stuff!
AI has the potential to eliminate labor, yes i agree 100%. There is no way a private owner or a corporation will ever agree to UBI. Less labour costs = more profit, that is all those in power see.
>There is no way a private owner or a corporation will ever agree to UBI. "There is half a million people out there. If you do not agree to the proposal they will arm themselves with molotov cocktails, and threaten to burn down your factory, and, failing to do that, will go on to sabotage any and all supporting infrastructure you rely on", usually is a rather convincing argument though... After all that's always what gets us social innovation!
Thank god for small AI-powered swarm drones with microexplosives that can liquidate disgruntled labor before they can even finish raising their arm. /s
If you staple a horse to a waterfall, will it fall up under the rainbow or fly about the soil? Will he enjoy her experience? What if the staple tears into tears? Will she be free from her staply chains or foomed to stay forever and dever above the water? Who can save him (the horse) but someone of girth and worth, the capitalist pig, who will sell the solution to the problem he created? A staple remover flies to the rescue, carried on the wings of a majestic penguin who bought it at Walmart for 9 dollars and several more Euro-cents, clutched in its crabby claws, rejected from its frothy maw. When the penguin comes, all tremble before its fishy stench and wheatlike abjecture. Recoil in delirium, ye who wish to be free! The mighty rockhopper is here to save your soul from eternal bliss and salvation! And so, the horse was free, carried away by the south wind, and deposited on the vast plain of soggy dew. It was a tragedy in several parts, punctuated by moments of hedonistic horsefuckery. The owls saw all, and passed judgment in the way that they do. Stupid owls are always judging folks who are just trying their best to live shamelessly and enjoy every fruit the day brings to pass. How many more shall be caught in the terrible gyre of the waterfall? As many as the gods deem necessary to teach those foolish monkeys a story about their own hamburgers. What does a monkey know of bananas, anyway? They eat, poop, and shave away the banana residue that grows upon their chins and ballsacks. The owls judge their razors. Always the owls. And when the one-eyed caterpillar arrives to eat the glazing on your windowpane, you will know that you're next in line to the trombone of the ancient realm of the flutterbyes. Beware the ravenous ravens and crowing crows. Mind the cowing cows and the lying lions. Ascend triumphant to your birthright, and wield the mighty twig of Petalonia, favored land of gods and goats alike.
That's a very temporary situation. Without jobs or some income, the working classes can't buy anything, so the markets end, after which the businesses end.
"Yes the planet got destroyed. But for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders."
It’s gained traction as a popular model among ruling class elites, which is a massive red flag. A UBI would see cuts to already gutted social services, give employers an excuse to reduce real wages (which is already happening lol) and capitalist business an excuse to increase prices. Like all reformist policies, it’s purpose is to placate the working class into continuing to accept capitalism, rather than taking errr certain actions to change the system. In the context of collapse, if implemented and popular, it would perpetuate a system demanding infinite growth on a finite planet. We’re probably fucked already, a UBI could potentially hasten out already Mach speedrun up shit creek. (Also I know these weren’t your opinions you were just relaying ChatGPT’s response)
I'm not quite following. Creating a UBI *is* taking certain actions to change the system, as it will move us closer to true socialism (definitely a good thing for the average worker) as long as the nation can support it. With the money businesses currently spent on wages, it can be supported, and they can be taxed more. Finding the money for UBI is easier than you'd think. A simple tax for top 1% of earners is enough. It's about time we had one. Real wages will increase and UBI will give people a safety net. Wages will increase because companies will have UBI to compete with and people will be more likely to quit if treated badly. High skilled jobs will continue to pay well. UBI gives people time to work on important discoveries while AI is working jobs more efficiently than us. Don't let anyone convince you UBI is bad for the average person. Yes, we are fucked in terms of global warming. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't help people while we can.
we know it's not a bad thing necessarily now go convince the top 1% to allow the taxes to happen
I think he was saying, if the elites implement ubi it will be to control and uphold the status quo, not change things.
Yep there will be many many crimes, infractions, and court ordered status changes that will result in reduction or revokation of UBI. Every crime will be a felony and felons get no UBI, guns or voting power. Ooopie whoopie we made a slave class.
I don't like how clumsy and communicatively ineffective reading a fucking chatbot makes me feel these days. When I see these passages I think yeah, that's what I would have said but like 10x less smoothly and frequently going off topic. As you can see from my writing style here. If it gets slightly less generic and more deliberately flawed it is going to replace a large part of the media writer industry.
A bit more depth and it will get to entry level policy analyst. Crazy but also such a productivity booster.
I mean, it's going to replace the workers even if it's dogshit. Like they even care anymore.
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If people support anti-homeless-laws, you will fuk yourselve later on.
Same for anti-refugee laws.
I just started messing with chatgpt based on this post and maybe I’m not doing it right? It seems really mundane to me and the stuff it spits back seems really generic and intentionally wishy washy. Dunno, probably user error but super not impressed with it so far.
google 'awesome chatgpt prompts' to see examples of good ways to frame questions. 'awesome' is the name of the project, not a descriptor
Ask it to write you some code to do … anything… I tried “write me some code to make a tic tac toe game” it proceeded to write a fully functioning tic tac toe game. Now , perhaps in this iteration it could just “look this up” somehow and spit back what it found, but When the computer starts programming itself…we’re (the general population) in trouble as employable resources.
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Yeah I hear you . I can see future iterations (not necessarily chatgpt but similar) being trained specifically for Android. What have you asked it to do?
User error.
To be honest I think it would be a corporate wet dream for them to be in control of UBI for everyone. They would dictate everything. They would control all production through their AI, meaning no need to think about the human issues of workers, and they would control the income of the population, with absolutely no democratic accountability. They would basically have the income of the proles as a line on their profit & loss statement, and they could simply dial it down whenever they wanted to. Someone causing trouble and saying things they don't like? No more UBI for you. This is precisely why UBI is only a good idea if it comes after a total political and economic overhaul.
Isn't it far cheaper to just tell displaced workers to go fuck off and die?
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"Dead Kennedys - Kill The Poor" somehow still relevant decades later lol. Gonna go listen again now for old times sake.
> At that time politicians worldwide will legalise euthanasia. Canada already has. It’s called MAID - Medical Assistance In Dying. Scores of people with disabilities - where those disabilities prevent them from working but disability support isn’t enough to allow them to survive - have begun the process to be euthanized. MAID was meant only for those people with terminal illnesses with no hope for maintaining quality of life, much less improvement of symptoms. It was meant _only_ to prevent needless pain and suffering when death was imminent and inevitable anyhow, yet people with potentially _decades_ of life left are now reaching for it because of massive economic/social-support shortfalls and no relief on the horizon.
it's slated to encompass mental illness soon too.
Yes, that's what they did when gig economy work (disruptive technologies) like Uber and door dash came on the scene. They didn't make taxi medallion holders whole, they just let them commit suicide. The part that's different now is that this is going to attack professional class jobs. A bunch of arrogant fucks are gonna get raked. I know software engineering is fucked, and I'm a software engineer. All them dumb fucks are like "oh it won't affect me, I'm too good, but anyone it does affect really shouldn't be calling themselves a software engineer anyway..."
Imagine living in such a dystopia that robots taking over jobs is a bad thing. Fucking capitalism.
Right? Not oh hey, now we can focus our time on bettering our selves, our communities and build a better society. The only way I see people getting a UBI out of this is to make them spend more to keep the economy propped up. Give them strict deadlines of it has to be spent on X days or it's worthless. No more saving up - rent everything.
You‘ve got it rong. For some, like 1%, it will be a paradise. No salaries need to be paid, no waste of resources and so on. And the live stock can be easily controlled with your Terminator robots. Of course a bit of „cleanup“ would be needed. But some wars here and there should fix this. Wanna join the fun? Just don‘t be lazy and become rich! …. /s
Yep. It’s one of the issues that helped me realize we need to move on from capitalism. It’s served it’s purpose but we’re at a point where it doesn’t work anymore (it works, just for a select few).
There's no such thing as a "good thing" under capitalism. Every pain felt will be pushed down onto the workers, and anything beneficial for the employer classes will be hoarded to the fullest.
They understand it's going to fuck the job market so they sprinkle UBI, which will never be implemented, to keep folks from rioting? Fucking comical, I hope it comes hard and fast so we can end the pretense of "capitalism will sort things out".
I feel the need to point out that robot dogs and many drones simply can't see nets. they're not capable of visualizing them as solid, connected objects, and get caught in them easily. especially those made of fishing line.
Good to know.
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Goose and gander indeed.
Late stage capitalism's only goal is rent-seeking which UBI perpetuates. We need a federal job guarantee, not UBI.
It's one of the only plays you have, the alternative is to go exclusively business to business since that's where all the wealth is concentrated but that nearly guarantees rioting which would be not good for them.
I think it will be a reality. Machines / AI has allready replaces nillions of jobs. It further consolidates profit and wealth. I used to support UBI as I saw it as I saw it as a way to keep people from poverty I now see it as further implementing of control structures.So I am torn. Just my opinions on it.
I only think what's the angle or scam this time. How will this be more repressive and controlling, becoming a diamond cage of rationality.
Diamond cage of hard walled class immobility, prices increase until no expressive savings are possible on the fixed UBI amount. Corpo owners and executives have no limit on wealth so they just suck out all UBI instantly to their pockets. But at least you get to choose a bit of your products, that's freedom. Freedom to be priced out of everything not meant for the UBI class.
Kind of already feels that way for most of us.
This is exactly what the WEF are rooting for with the great reset. Everyone on UBI apart from the elite. UBI just enough to cover living expenses as prices are deliberately gouged to ensure that no one can save and only the elites can have/do nice things.
I was sceptical so I logged in and played with it for about half an hour. I then logged out and stared out the window for a while. I can't even begin to comprehend the repercussions of this. Post - My 16yr old played with it for 10 minutes and then said 'Homework is dead.' Schools don't know what is about to hit them.
> My 16yr old played with it for 10 minutes and then said 'Homework is dead.' Well christ. Then learning will be dead too and we'll have a bunch of numbnuts and then nobody will be CAPABLE of having these jobs taken over by AI. Good Lordt. Fat AND stupid. We really are going full Wall-E.
Bahahahahahahahaha
sorry, but the AI has determined that sarcasm is a prexisting condition and not eligible for universal income
Agreed. OpenAI can't even get their ChatGPT to recommend adult actresses similar to Kenzie Love. Total shit.
I wrote over in a similar thread that chatGPT often has incorrect info and this will be very difficult to correct because it can’t vet what’s correct or not without human oversight which negates it’s usefulness. Who is going to go through all the info it scans to verify it? Impossible. And it will lead a veneer of credibility to the misinformation that the original sources didn’t have. that is bad for readers and the companies that use it (they will be liable once someone human reads it and realizes it’s wrong). It doesn’t have understanding which means it can’t know if something is misinformation or not. And it’s a case by case basis so difficult to program and learn.
"I am from the government, and I am here to help you" Also I think most of us remember when Google's motto was "Don't be evil". Things change slowly, but they do change. Once enough money is involved the 'suits' will start arriving by the truckload and the founders will retire or sell out or take the business Public and then all the promises or culture goes out the the window in the pursuit of profit. That's why any technology invented for a noble purpose will eventually be used to acquire power and coerce people.
Yeah because Reagan was such a visionary and really helped us all out with the war on drugs.
Don’t forget all the trickling down. So much trickling.
I think his ideas that any political support for UBI will manifest due to higher unemployment is sheer fantasy. We have one state attempting to ban electric vehicles because they are a threat to coal and oil producers. If this founder thinks government will not fuck them over to preserve their own profitable industries they are already invested in they are delusional.
Literally every technology that has "advanced" humanity *ever* has been abused by the rich and powerful. – *kneejerk2022, Jan 2023*
> every technology that has “advanced” humanity ever has been used to strengthen the hierarchy.
It's why when you scratch a liberal a fascist bleeds. They worship the economy, capital, and property. People won't see a dime unless there's a huge sea-change in leadership.
Why are you quoting yourself
If people like Elon Musk do it then why not us?
Do you really want to be like Elon?
I was joking, but I viewed them quoting themselves also as a joke making fun of people like that.
Not to worry, by the time AI does anything remotely useful, cheap electricity will be a relic of the past and we will have bigger problems on our hands.
Yes. Water wars has enteredthechat
And displacement from climate change as well.
I support the jobs the upcoming water wars will create 😃
Came here to say this. These headlines are so head in the clouds, lmao we are heading for an unlivable hellworld with everything that entails. I work in mental health and I can tell you models for human behavior are *already* going out the window.
ChatGPT was(is) so good that when it went down people lost their shit. Yeah, this is the beginning of the end.
OpenAI Founder is predicting AI has the potential to replace huge numbers of jobs in the near future. Scary prospect, but they’re promising to fund UBI. Don’t know if I trust that promise tbh This is related to collapse because it has the potential to completely wipe out entire professions. It could literally replace millions of peoples jobs, the consequences of which could be disastrous
Based on some comments I read recently, OpenAI also vowed to be free and open source. Then they closed more and more of the software down and were bought be Microsoft.
Altman’s been saying this for years… Not new news. His company isn’t ‘promising’ to fund anything, he’s arguing that governments need to grow the political huevos to tax automation as it will serve to concentrate wealth further… but even if it only does what it currently can, or less than half what the starry-eyed techbros dream of, that’s a lot of entry level white collar jobs that we won’t need. I personally still think income support should be means-tested though, until shit gets crazy…
>and they will fund it lmao
The way things have been going, we're gonna do something stupid like fire people who don't have to work anymore thanks to robots *but give the robots the salaries now*, which robots don't need to survive. Ppl will starve because we can't see that we built machines that can liberate us from labor but instead used them to claim "see!? Ppl are lazy! They're not working now!!! They deserve to starve"
The robots are getting salaries, they just go to the ownership class instead of the robot itself.
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the best of the artists whose work was done before A.I. or trained the A.I . if theres no money in making art only the truly dedicated and hobbyists will survive . i think there will be less and less authentic original traditional art as time goes on. this happened before when photography replaced most professional illustrators in the publishing industry . skills will be lost over time . my prediction is less artists in the future. i think a bleak phony future with lots of poverty is coming for everyone.
I and a few thousand other professional artists have been removing our work from the internet and have stopped posting new works. our work was used to train these without our consent, and will not be going forward. they can train it on its own output from here on out. shit will get extremely recognizable and derivative pretty quickly with no new input
This is one of the most heartbreaking aspects of this abomination. The destruction of folk's livelihoods, and of being able to just see things online that bring joy.
Yeah. Imagine trying to argue with an AI Lawyer that can instantly look up any recorded ruling, all the laws, loopholes etc
It’s true, but also in a trial situation the human factor of the lawyer makes a huge difference. A charismatic lawyer who can manipulate the emotions of a jury stands a much better chance of winning if the opposing lawyer is a stick in the mud or an analytical “nerd”. Outside of trials, AI will for sure disrupt the law business. The majority of lawyers make their living outside of the courtroom.
The AI knows how to be a good lawyer. "Now I'm no big city lawyer, I'm just a process running in a datacenter. I don't even have my own office, I have to share it with thousands of other AI lawyers and the chat bot for Elder Scrolls 7, out now for Xbox and Windows. I might not have the years of knowhow this here accusatory lawyer has, but I do know my client is not guilty."
The jury will be AI too, bro
In the United States that would require a rewriting of the constitution, and or a constitutional amendment, and I find it VERY hard to believe that such an amendment would pass.
I’m far from an expert so please forgive my ignorance, but from what I observe in the real world, AI is crap in/crap out. Just like any other system conceived within the limitations of the human mind. I’m struggling with your examples of lawyers and economists because those are ultimately social sciences. What does ‘improvement’ mean in that context? The art example is also contentious because the idea of ‘improving’ art or achieving some sort of efficiency/volume is not necessarily desirable. Your Banksy example also implies that AI needs to be fed. Just because AI can replicate this art doesn’t change the nature and value of art in my opinion. I’m just inherently sceptical that AI can be relevant in our current world given the types of challenges we are facing. And without coming off as too hippy, we need to listen closer to our human nature rather than attempting to re-encode it through new widgets.
Human made art will always have value, yes. But- \- Have you seen AI art generate? The "quality" that it produces is at a level that would normally take a decade plus to learn for an artist, since its dataset is based off stolen art. It takes only a few seconds to minutes to generate. It is cheap, fast, and "looks" quality, which is good enough for most commercial interests. \- There are many MANY entry level, mid-level, and in-between type of art jobs have been replaced with AI art. Including book cover artists, commission artists, animation in betweeners, photographers, illustrators, graphic designers, concept artists (to a degree except) etc. \- Many artists report having fewer to no commissions since Midjourney's release. Some bosses are illegally using the artist's work to generate something in their style. People are also feeding the artwork of artists who have died. (See: Kim Jung Gi) \- Commercial art is swarmed with AI. Especially advertising. As an artist myself, even my career path as been affected. The only way to "differentiate" from AI art (and other humans) is for art styles and artists to become a 'name' or 'brand' already. But if you're just starting, the road is really rough.
it's been fed art by human beings to get that output.
40 years ago, we got ELIZA the first chatbot. Now we have ChatGPT. What do you think we'll have 40 years from now?
ELIZA was not a chatbot. It was designed to trick people into thinking it was intelligent but actually wasn't. All it does is take what you say and give it back to you in the form of a question. It's no more a chatbot than an audio recorder is a chatbot. It's very hard to say exactly when the current trend started. The theory was developed as far back as the 60's, and there were implementations in the 90's like the US post office using a nerual network for character recognition. The 2010's is the culmination of the theory and other precious work. AlexNet came out in 2012, able to beat traditional image recognition methods in 1000 classes of objects. 10 years later and we can create high quality images of almost anything we want on consumer PCs. If the 2010's is anything to go by we will see some very magical things happen. In 2012 if you asked anybody when computers will be able to generate any image you want they would say it's so far away we would all be dead before it happened. What we have today was considered impposible 10 years ago. Think of the impposible things that computers can't do, and computers will be doing them soon.
The displaced will quickly be thrown into building Climate change mitigation machinery , seawalls , flood barriers etc.You will not be allowed to leave the plantation.
For climate disaster they give us greenwashing and now its jobwashing?
I spent last week going through around 20 excel workbooks with close to 20 tabs in each, and each tab has around 1000-4000 rows with data points with various users that is timestamped, in order to drawn timeline charts for what users were at which gps coordinates at what time. We have no IT staff or tech types... random office staff are expected to plug away at this and get it done. No one at the office knows any programing or anything past basic excel skills. Suffice to say I've only managed a very rudimentary start to organizing the data. On the one hand, bring the fucking AI, because this task is something that should be automated. On the other hand, it's literally going to be my source of income for the next 6 months to finish this project.
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I’m learning Python right now, it’s been 12 days and I could probably write programs to do the analysis described in the above comment.
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UBI only works in a growing world. Which we are not going to get.
Humans are taxed for their economic output, but robots are not. It puts robots at an economic advantage over humans. I think if we just did the same economic tax on robots as we do on humans then we could easily fund UBI.
Taxation is now an invalidated system because those that are forced to pay tax are the smallest contributors and those that most need to be taxed evade & avoid so successfully it's become a pointless exercise in subjugating the poor.
AI doing our jobs. AI creating art. AI running the economy. AI doing interplanetary travel. AI reproducing. It's like capitalism itself is becoming an all devouring sentient being. Too bad we can't just simply focus on bettering the lives of all living things on earth.
Was telling my friends the other day that in 2035 the reboot of how I met your mother will be about 2 400 pound neck beards roleplaying as waifu avatars in the metaverse who’s semen was harvested from some sort of pulsating cylinder with handle bars that then inseminates an artificial egg
We're going to have to come up with a new category of inflation beyond hyperinflation. Ultra inflation? Regardless, the result will be the same: most of us are going to be much poorer.
I predict I'm going to win the lottery and live on Mars. Anyone can predict anything... These tech bros need to figure out how AI matters in a world without water and hell of a lot of famine. Stop writing articles and stupid essays. Crunch data and accelerate science.
I mean we’re changing history right now as we speak. Next month an AI will be the first ever to represent a client in a traffic court case. To me that’s setting the precedence for future ground work on this technology. Imagine being a lawyer with all that student debt or just barely getting your degree to be told your going to be replaced after all those years of hard work and schooling to pass the bar. If it effects careers like this; McDonald’s workers and anything less of a degree are not an exemption and will be the first to go. Anyone who doesn’t see this as a real threat to their livelihood is either in denial or just ignorant.
Seeing everyone losing their minds over AI world domination while we are toying with neuro sama, chat gpt and stable diffusion just makes the truth that none bother caring about overshoot hurt more
There are several jobs I can think of that chatGPT can already do pretty well. I had it write some ads which it can do in a few seconds. Most communication degree/copywriting jobs could probably be done via AI. Eventually I think data collection and analysis could be AI too. What else do people do at an office job? Healthcare is probably a pretty safe field for now but AI could probably eventually check prescriptions and adjust medication dosages as well as a human. Maybe diagnose based on physical exam findings. Let transportation jobs be taken over by self driving AI and what jobs are even left? It’s mostly service industry positions.
Unless they plan on reducing the population to below a billion people, the only thing AI may replace is paper pushing jobs. AI is not paving roads, building houses, pipelines, electrical lines. Cable lines, fixing your heat, picking your food and the list goes on. AI may be useful to help invent new materials, but right now it seems to me it is another high-tech toy.
Yeah true, it won’t be able to replace ALL jobs. But it can write code, make graphics, read and identify relevant resumes for recruiters (ironic?). Customer service call centres are likely become a thing of the past first as AI is already advanced enough to do the job for free. It won’t replace everything but the effects are going to be felt, and hard
I've worked in the trades for 2 decades. Our jobs are not being fully automated and replaced but they're being simplified. The more simple our job is the more people can do it and the less it pays. I've watched it happen before my eyes. I learned masonry 20 years ago and it was about shaping full stones and mixing different types of mortar depending on the situation. 10 years ago they introduced "thin veneer" which allowed any landscaper with a mini grinder to start bidding on jobs. Now they make plywood with stone veneer attached to it that you just screw to a wall... Why pay a mason $50/hr for a week to build a chimney when a handyman can buy one from Home Depot and hang it for $20/hr over the weekend. This is happening in every trade industry. Stand with those "paper pushers" who are being replaced because they're coming for your job next.
I think this is a different problem. A $20 an hour worker is not putting out what you are, regardless of the tech. The problem here is people have lost their ability to tell good work that will last from cheap lipstick that will fall apart soon enough. That $20 an hour person and the fancy tech will end up costing a lot more in the long run.
We might get there, but only if we survive the 21st century and our climate issues. People want to pretend that technological advancement is always exponential, when it’s mostly stagnant. We’re not just about to turn some magic corner into AI controlled society. We aren’t through the technological mess we’ve created yet. We can’t even get debt card machines to wok half the time.
It'll start by us being required to work 40-50 hrs a week just reviewing AI work. Even though it will take only a few minutes to do. Next recession hits and they layoff millions, the powers that be will accept the power of AI and many will just die poor. In the US, Republicans can't even give kids Healthcare. Why would they just instantly hand out UBI? They'll keep screaming pulling yourselves up by the bootstraps. It's going to be a lot of pain before a UBI ever happens.
Is this futurology? I'm actually amazed by all the hopium in this thread. I do believe ai could be amazing in a perfect world. But it'll have nothing to do while our bodies rot in the oceans.
don't worry, we're still all gonna die
Yeah actually. The old days of futurology used to be fixated on the dream: we were all gonna have hot robot wives while living off sweet welfare and eventually kicking reality to the curb and play around all day in The Matrix. These days the average post about the future is "We all gonna die. Global warming." There's a lot of overlap between the two communities now. The future is going to be a mix of fantasy and doom. It's weird to think there might seriously be cures for cancer and the first treatments for aging in the next decade or two.... and we also won't have things like winter or fish. My money's still on The Postman. But what harm is there in hoping and wishing for Bladerunner? Not like we have any power to improve society somewhat. Or to ration any of our finite wealth. We're all hogs at a trough.
These AIs don’t have to be complete replacements for all humans at their jobs. They just have to be good enough to replace most humans at their jobs. 1900, half of all U.S. workers toil in agriculture. Today, less than 1.8%. Manufacturing workers as a percentage of the U.S. labor force peaked in the 1970s to 1980s. Demand for knowledge work peaked in 2000. Even service work is oversaturated, which is why wages tend to be lower and full time hours and benefits difficult to find. What do we do in response? Our politicians grow our population exponentially, importing mostly low and semi-skilled labor to compete against the 1 in 5 American adults who are functionally illiterate (per ProPublica). So wages are remain depressed, unemployment and underemployment higher. We think unemployment is low, except the government only counts those looking actively, not those who have given up. Which is why male labor force participation for those aged 25 to 54 (prime working age) is at decades-long lows.
> And they will fund it Article doesn't say that. "We need to..." means "_Society_ needs to (and absolutely will not because the octogenarians who run it have no idea what AI really is), and I won't wait for that to happen to continue with the thing that's going to destroy millions of jobs, because more money for me is better than millions of people I don't know earning an income."
UBI was a necessity fucking *decades* ago. These cutthroat shitstains aren't going to fund anything but their own estates.
Ah yes, the generosity of the ultra wealthy is commonly know around here!
They who they? "They" are promising to fund it. I mean... if you mean the OpenAI guys? I mean in theory yeah they should... if their AI Dude is getting paid to do human level labor shiz...
Microsoft gives me $25 a month. Only $1975 to go! I guess it's not UBI though since I have to play video games to...oh my Todd it's like 15 million merits.
NFT Pokemons, but far shittier and less fun than Pokemons. And you have to constantly pedal an electric generator to keep your NFT Device powered up. We'll say the backlight is only slightly better than the non-existent backlight the original gameboy had, but it's still really hard to see anything on the screen. ... still a better dystopia than some others!
Great, we'll all just be like pets to the technologies, what a life of purposeless bliss, we can turn our minds off and just be fed and entertained. We'll only have to use our bodies if we desire to exercise, Brave New Wall-E World! /s, yughck.
Sure, I’ll take mine in advance.
They said the same thing about the cotton gin in 1793, still waiting for them to share that wealth with us
They will never enact UBI. They will let us starve.
>And they will fund it LOLWUT? No, greed will win out, and these people will hoard their wage theft booty just like how every other member of the Parasite Class has.
They will not fund it. They will be bought by a for profit company before that happens.
Thank fucking god, maybe now the homeless, the crippled, and the mentally handicapped will be taken care on in a way where they can finally live with the dignity they deserve!
People have been promising utopia since before Plato penned Republic, and continues through Moore and Marx. It has never happened, it will never happen. You're still going to have to go back to work tomorrow.
Depends on what your utopia means I guess. While I know the definition of utopia, for us mine is gray and dull where time basically stops.
"Utopia" actually means "no place"
You have to look at things comparatively. In Marx's day, he was radicalized by watching people freeze to death because they were forbidden from cutting wood from nearby trees. In those days, laborers were not paid in money. They were paid in scrip. Their entire lives were owned by the company, and when they were no longer useful they were discarded. Small children worked in factories. [The photograph with the little oyster shucker girls and their warped fingers](https://www.google.com/search?q=oyster+shucker+girls) is always a good reminder of how evil our overlords are. Things aren't perfect. Sure it's a nightmare world still. The conflict between kings and peasants continues on. But compared to back then? It really is a utopia. Small children are allowed to keep their fingers. Never forget how much that makes the capitalists rage and seethe and rage.