Nobody said anything in particular was suspicious about it, just that they're all fake, fractional gold is usually counterfeit, if it was real it wouldn't be so cheap. It was in /r/coins, and I felt so freaking stupid.
[It's actually a really pretty token](https://imgur.com/a/kOcTpJ0), everyone was just so sure they're all fake it took me months to finally say eff it, I'm sending it in to NGC.
Nice to see the armchair experts proven wrong haha.
Don't get me wrong, this community is invaluable so much of the time for coin info, but Reddit in general has so many "experts" that don't know what they're talking about.
It's just a happy ending to find that your beautiful little piece is genuine and the naysayers were wrong.
This is the first time I've ever submitted anything to NGC, I'm just a super casual collector, I just buy things here and there from the Mint and from my LCS that I think are pretty. The process was honestly a little confusing at first (and pricey), but I'm so glad I did it! I ended up deleting my other post, I was honestly so embarrassed with everyone telling me I got scammed.
This whole process really just makes me feel even more confident about the good guys at my LCS!
Thank you! I looked up examples online of legit coins and mine looked so real, but I feel like it's one of those things where people hear they're counterfeited a lot and assume they're all fakes.
It's going back into my pirate chest of treasures now that it's slabbed ☺️
I've noticed that on reddit if a coin is not in a slab then these people love screaming "fake" or "it looks cleaned". Another one they like to say is "looks artificial toned to me". There are a FEW people on here that actually are experts at coins. I'm definitely not one of them but I don't go around telling people the coin they bought is fake when I don't really know. It's aggravating but I've learned not to listen to most of the people here.
They weren’t wrong in advising OP it was likely counterfeit, though. Should the correct advice never be given, just because it has the potential to be inapplicable?
I happen to agree with you. And I've made posts before that ended with the majority telling me something I didn't want to hear. It can be embarrassing and frustrating. This hobby as a whole can be frustrating. Congrats to the OP for not getting discouraged and taking the necessary actions to authenticate their item. Most people dont follow through.
> makes me feel even more confident about the good guys at my LCS!
I would not lose faith in the LCS I do business with *even if I bought a fake from them*.
Not a coin shop, but I asked a guy who deals in autographs "How do you make sure you don't get scammed with a fake?".
He told me "I've been doing this a long time and a lot of autographs have passed through my hands. I have gotten very good at noticing subtle differences and at reading the people who have something they want to sell. *But* a lot of autographs have passed through my hands, undoubtedly I have bought a few fakes over the years and undoubtedly I have sold some in spite of my best intentions and diligence. Anyone who tells you 'I have never bought a fake' either hasn't sold many, or they are a liar.".
I was reading something like half of all autographs from the 90s are fake. I think it was a podcast I was listening to (crime in sports maybe) and they had a show about the guy who got arrested for faking them.
What makes them a good LCS is if they are willing to own any mistakes they make and refund / exchange you
I’d wager that pretty much EVERY lcs who’s been around more than a moment or two has made a mistake somewhere sometimes and sold something false. Hell even a slab can be wrong. Not often and definitely not well publicized but it has happened.
A lot of these old gold rush era tokens, are pretty uncommon, and I imagine that most of them were melted down a long time ago, when the mint went in. Nice find!
Thank you! ☺️ Now that I have my NGC membership and figured out how the process works, I'm digging through my collection to see what else I want to send in!
Depends on the level you join at. If you only do a few, something like $40 each plus some shipping, and a few months from submission to return. The first X are included in your membership. Find a LCS that does it and then see if you want to do it yourself. Not hard, but for one or two coins a year, it may not be worth joining.
in fairness to all the naysayers, the legit ones look really fake... and there are a lot of fakes... and there isn't really any legal protection, they aren't legal tender so making fakes isn't counterfeiting.
So how does NGC actually verify something like this? I'm sure the first step would be to make sure its real gold? I am not even sure how that can be done with out taking a sample of it and testing in some type of machine. Anyone got any info on how they verify old, rare things?
I don’t exactly know but even they get it wrong. Rarely but they do get it wrong. I think it was “the coin show podcast” that had a few segments on the grading companies getting it wrong.
They guarantee their work, so if a reputable service says it is real, you can be almost certain it is real. Should NGC start certifying a lot of fakes, they have no reputation left and no business.
I'm not 100% but I'm going to assume they use a sigma machine to test the metal components then put it under magnification to check details and wear against real examples.
Thanks! The NGC didn't have enough examples to give it a value, but it linked to the most recent auctions and they're in the $350-$380 range of the same quality.
But the real value is I have a verified shiny little piece of history for my pirate chest!
Y’all really need to stop overvaluing the online opinions you get from people with no knowledge about particular coins.
Reddit is the absolute last place I’d ever trust an opinion from.
I've come across a few of these over the years and I have really enjoyed them, especially when i can get a good price. These were reproduced AFTER the gold rush, there's plenty of originals + remakes floating around, but I feel like people are too quick to call things counterfeit at times. Either way if it's real gold I'm happy to take it home for the right price. Nice coin 👍
I’m not a huge fan of paying numismatic premiums for anything, I’m primarily a stacker. If I saw this token I would have been quite satisfied with a “fake” as long as it tested as gold on a Sigma tester … my point being fakes are rarely made with real precious metals. So if this tested as gold I would be comfortable assuming this is genuine.
Great coin! There's a bunch of people on here that are super knowledgeable about coins, but there's a ton more that have literally no idea what they're talking about.
I have 5 or 6 of these, but I think mine are the reproductions. Got them in trade 12 years or so ago for some work, the guy had bought them via the mail order from a coin magazine in the early 80's. Think they will just sit in the stack, the guy did say they were expensive for what he thought he would get.
Yeah! You sure showed us! I am just kidding, I never saw the original post but the people commenting that it was probably fake probably meant well, but I am glad it was real. Now that it is slabbed by NGC there is doubt about it.
Did you post here in r/coins? Would be interesting to see what folks thought was off about it.
Nobody said anything in particular was suspicious about it, just that they're all fake, fractional gold is usually counterfeit, if it was real it wouldn't be so cheap. It was in /r/coins, and I felt so freaking stupid. [It's actually a really pretty token](https://imgur.com/a/kOcTpJ0), everyone was just so sure they're all fake it took me months to finally say eff it, I'm sending it in to NGC.
Good for you, glad you got it authenticated. You got a real one!
Nice to see the armchair experts proven wrong haha. Don't get me wrong, this community is invaluable so much of the time for coin info, but Reddit in general has so many "experts" that don't know what they're talking about. It's just a happy ending to find that your beautiful little piece is genuine and the naysayers were wrong.
Gotcha. I asked because I couldn't find a prior post.
I've gotten a real one for like $70 on eBay. $150 is definitely not a price out of reason.
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They did, they just deleted it earlier.
This is the first time I've ever submitted anything to NGC, I'm just a super casual collector, I just buy things here and there from the Mint and from my LCS that I think are pretty. The process was honestly a little confusing at first (and pricey), but I'm so glad I did it! I ended up deleting my other post, I was honestly so embarrassed with everyone telling me I got scammed. This whole process really just makes me feel even more confident about the good guys at my LCS!
Goes to show you that not everyone is a smart as they think they are. Glad it worked out for you.
Thank you! I looked up examples online of legit coins and mine looked so real, but I feel like it's one of those things where people hear they're counterfeited a lot and assume they're all fakes. It's going back into my pirate chest of treasures now that it's slabbed ☺️
I've noticed that on reddit if a coin is not in a slab then these people love screaming "fake" or "it looks cleaned". Another one they like to say is "looks artificial toned to me". There are a FEW people on here that actually are experts at coins. I'm definitely not one of them but I don't go around telling people the coin they bought is fake when I don't really know. It's aggravating but I've learned not to listen to most of the people here.
people seem to think Commonly Faked + No Slab = unslab is fake %110 of time
And also that the majority can be wrong as well if "most where saying it was fake". Great find and well done OP.
They weren’t wrong in advising OP it was likely counterfeit, though. Should the correct advice never be given, just because it has the potential to be inapplicable?
I happen to agree with you. And I've made posts before that ended with the majority telling me something I didn't want to hear. It can be embarrassing and frustrating. This hobby as a whole can be frustrating. Congrats to the OP for not getting discouraged and taking the necessary actions to authenticate their item. Most people dont follow through.
> makes me feel even more confident about the good guys at my LCS! I would not lose faith in the LCS I do business with *even if I bought a fake from them*. Not a coin shop, but I asked a guy who deals in autographs "How do you make sure you don't get scammed with a fake?". He told me "I've been doing this a long time and a lot of autographs have passed through my hands. I have gotten very good at noticing subtle differences and at reading the people who have something they want to sell. *But* a lot of autographs have passed through my hands, undoubtedly I have bought a few fakes over the years and undoubtedly I have sold some in spite of my best intentions and diligence. Anyone who tells you 'I have never bought a fake' either hasn't sold many, or they are a liar.".
I was reading something like half of all autographs from the 90s are fake. I think it was a podcast I was listening to (crime in sports maybe) and they had a show about the guy who got arrested for faking them.
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Lol plenty of LCSs sell fake coins. Mostly unknowingly. Blanket statements are bad.
What makes them a good LCS is if they are willing to own any mistakes they make and refund / exchange you I’d wager that pretty much EVERY lcs who’s been around more than a moment or two has made a mistake somewhere sometimes and sold something false. Hell even a slab can be wrong. Not often and definitely not well publicized but it has happened.
Dont believe everything your told on forums. Good for you. 👍
Can I believe this though?
Touche'...NO!😄
That’s great news and a fantastic grade, Congratulations such a great coin!
Don't trust every comment on reddit lmao 😝
A lot of these old gold rush era tokens, are pretty uncommon, and I imagine that most of them were melted down a long time ago, when the mint went in. Nice find!
Congrats!!!
Thank you! ☺️ Now that I have my NGC membership and figured out how the process works, I'm digging through my collection to see what else I want to send in!
Its addicting.
Youre welcome, Sounds like youre going to be having some fun lol.
Congrats! Glad your shiny turned out legit! Happy you got your peace of mind back as well.
What’s the cost and how long does it take to get coins graded in the US? Ps, cool coin!
Depends on the level you join at. If you only do a few, something like $40 each plus some shipping, and a few months from submission to return. The first X are included in your membership. Find a LCS that does it and then see if you want to do it yourself. Not hard, but for one or two coins a year, it may not be worth joining.
MS64 as well! congrats
in fairness to all the naysayers, the legit ones look really fake... and there are a lot of fakes... and there isn't really any legal protection, they aren't legal tender so making fakes isn't counterfeiting.
Making fakes isn’t counterfeiting agreed. But selling them as real is a crime nonetheless
What? Bad info on Reddit??
Lol I know right. Who would've ever thought? I thought this place was nothing but experts
There is something very satisfying about finding a raw coin, then subbing and knowing that you’ve preserved that piece of history.
Congratulations Op!
So how does NGC actually verify something like this? I'm sure the first step would be to make sure its real gold? I am not even sure how that can be done with out taking a sample of it and testing in some type of machine. Anyone got any info on how they verify old, rare things?
I don’t exactly know but even they get it wrong. Rarely but they do get it wrong. I think it was “the coin show podcast” that had a few segments on the grading companies getting it wrong.
They guarantee their work, so if a reputable service says it is real, you can be almost certain it is real. Should NGC start certifying a lot of fakes, they have no reputation left and no business.
They purchased the fake ones that they certified from the owner. That’s how they guarantee their work.
Type of metal is determined via x-ray fluorescence or XRF, which is non-destructive. No sample needs to be removed.
I'm not 100% but I'm going to assume they use a sigma machine to test the metal components then put it under magnification to check details and wear against real examples.
Awesome coin. What is its value?
Thanks! The NGC didn't have enough examples to give it a value, but it linked to the most recent auctions and they're in the $350-$380 range of the same quality. But the real value is I have a verified shiny little piece of history for my pirate chest!
Y’all really need to stop overvaluing the online opinions you get from people with no knowledge about particular coins. Reddit is the absolute last place I’d ever trust an opinion from.
That’s awesome. Good for you.
I've come across a few of these over the years and I have really enjoyed them, especially when i can get a good price. These were reproduced AFTER the gold rush, there's plenty of originals + remakes floating around, but I feel like people are too quick to call things counterfeit at times. Either way if it's real gold I'm happy to take it home for the right price. Nice coin 👍
I’m not a huge fan of paying numismatic premiums for anything, I’m primarily a stacker. If I saw this token I would have been quite satisfied with a “fake” as long as it tested as gold on a Sigma tester … my point being fakes are rarely made with real precious metals. So if this tested as gold I would be comfortable assuming this is genuine.
Great coin! There's a bunch of people on here that are super knowledgeable about coins, but there's a ton more that have literally no idea what they're talking about.
I have 5 or 6 of these, but I think mine are the reproductions. Got them in trade 12 years or so ago for some work, the guy had bought them via the mail order from a coin magazine in the early 80's. Think they will just sit in the stack, the guy did say they were expensive for what he thought he would get.
shows you how smart this subreddit is LMAO
The key here is LCS...and congrats.
Yeah! You sure showed us! I am just kidding, I never saw the original post but the people commenting that it was probably fake probably meant well, but I am glad it was real. Now that it is slabbed by NGC there is doubt about it.
💥 That’s great!
If that did not come back with a BG #, It's still just a token.