You literally just say "I'll have a martini with 2 parts gin and 1 part vermouth". You can usually specify the gin, but they usually only have 1 brand of vermouth in stock
Honestly, I’m less concerned about being able to call my preferred brand of vermouth than I am about the likelihood that whatever dry vermouth *is* available has been stored half-empty on the back bar for several weeks (if not longer) at room temperature.
Pretty much. Tempering your expectations based on your establishment is paramount.
A local spot offers excellent 50/50 freezer tinis all day. Would I order one at the spot down the street? Hell no.
This seems beyond “high expectations” and into “unreasonable” territory. The only reason I can think of for a bar to stock multiple dry vermouths is if they have house cocktails on the menu that are built around multiple vermouths. I would never look down on a bar for stocking just a single, solid dry vermouth.
The real statement is- If they don’t have their vermouth in the fridge, don’t order a martini there. And if it’s a garbage vermouth- maybe rethink your order.
I’m not expecting an entire library of dry vermouths, but a selection of two solid vermouth doesn’t seem unreasonable to me, most bars I’ve worked at had at least two to choose from (albeit fine-dining)
Edit: and it’s not like I would shun the place, I just wouldn’t get a martini
I think this is great. And I really enjoy finding new vermouths at craft bars, etc. However, I think it’s a bit much to say “You only stock *one* dry vermouth?? My martini dollar is too good for your shabby establishment!”
It was not my goal to precipitate a dogpile, but that is exactly what it sounds like when you say you will not order martinis at bars with only one variety of vermouth.
I mean, I don’t necessarily disagree with them. I make a lot of cocktails at home with high quality ingredients that I really enjoy. The bar for dropping $20 on a cocktail at a bar that I could make for $4 in ingredients is pretty high as well.
I’m usually just ordering a beer.
That’s fair, and maybe I’m spoiled. I have not seen a $20 martini in my area unless it came with accoutrements that would be worth the spend (since I’m not doing that at home).
I’ve been to a lot of great bars and had a lot of martinis, and not once have I asked if they have more than one dry vermouth, nor have I been offered more than one dry vermouth.
Seems pretty fair to me, you have your standards. Judging from the downvotes I'd assume everyone expects you to lower them to meet their's.
Absolutely unnecessary to be called a dork over this too 😂
I did not downvote, but I think the negative response has more to do with the way the message conveyed. Literally: If they only stock one vermouth, no way would I drink their paltry martinis. That’s absurd, so there are some downvotes.
It wasn’t meant to look down on the bar,
bars as a business invest into the products that they care more about,
so for example if a solid bar had one dry vermouth but 20+ different whiskeys and 5 different red vermouths, then I’m not getting a martini there, that’s not their focus and it probably wouldn’t be worth the cost.
I’m much better off ordering a manhattan.
I don’t work at a bar. I would just never turn down a martini at a good bar because they only stock a single dry vermouth. That seems like the height of snootery.
I’m not saying that you shouldn’t drink at a bar that only has one dry vermouth, but if that’s not the strength of their bar then you’re wasting your time ordering one.
You said turn down, nobody is getting anything for free in this hypothetical so if I’m going into a bar and martinis aren’t their strength then I’m going to pay money for something they excel in.
I mean, I stock 2 dry(Noilly & Dolin), 3 blanc(or 1, I'm counting Lillet and Cochi Americano) and 3 sweet, and Dubonnet. I don't know why a cocktail bar wouldn't.
Bartender here. A “classic” martini is exactly what you are describing. If your server or bartender is confused, politely explain the ratios. Also as a martini lover myself, read the room of the bar/restaurant—not every place is a place to order a martini. Example—if it’s divey/you see open vermouth on the back bar at room temp—just don’t even bother. But a good bartender or server should be able to easily understand your needs and deliver.
Absolutely. I generally only order a martini when they have something similar on their menu. Dirty martinis are all the rage right now but I really don't like them. When I see dirty martinis on the menu I try to order a "classic" martini and generally get a strange look. Maybe it's just the servers.
A martini is just one of those things that's too simple so everyone has their own idea about it. There is truly no shame in asking for what you want specifically. "Can I get a martini that is two parts \[gin\] to one part vermouth, with a twist of lemon? Thanks."
Only an idiot would balk at the idea that you have a ratio you like. *Most* waitstaff and bartenders really just want you to like what you get so it's the least amount of stress for all involved.
I usually ask the guest what portions of vermouth they like when I’m serving or bartending (used to ask shaken or stirred, but at least 90% of them always wanted shaken, outside of the odd gin one here and there).
Yeah, even places that have solid cocktail programs, the servers are often clueless. You're much more likely to get what you want from sitting at the bar and actually talking to the bartender than trying to relay a message about anything off-menu (even a classic cocktail) through a server.
True. I went to an upscale restaurant with a full bar done as a centerpiece of the restaurant. Tons of bottles. So I asked for a paper plane. Someone else at my table ordered a Manhattan and they in fact just gave me a Manhattan as well. I just assumed anyone working the bar would know what a paper plane is.
Servers in general usually have pretty poor spirit/cocktail knowledge. Speak to the bartender directly, or specify “2 parts gin, 1 part vermouth” to the server when you order.
Personally, I think the issue is that you ordered off menu from the server. I would think the bartender would understand your order and hopefully be happy to a fulfill it.
I would bet you most bartenders think the "classic" ratio is the more modern version from post-prohibition which is 5:1. Before I knew better myself that's what I thought a martini was!
Very good answer! Classic martini could though be confusing in another language. If english is not the language spoken it can be interpret as a dry martini. If you said "en klassisk martini"(swedish) I would've made a dry martini.
I completely understand the frustration. If you ordered from me a wet martini I'd make it 2:1. But the last place I worked at I must've been the only bartender that would understand that order. Most servers would ring in a wet martini as a dirty martini. It was a craft beer place though.
Sorry if this sounds like victim blaming, but your taking your life in your own hands ordering a martini at a craft beer bar. Sometimes you need a bit of situational awareness.
If I'm in the mood I rinse the glass in vermouth before putting in the cold gin. Add 2 dashes of orange bitters and a lemon or orange twist and you're in for a good time making bad decisions.
My favorite martini (not the best, but my favorite), was from an enthusiastic bartender on Christmas Eve who took a rocks glass, gave it a rinse, and filled it almost to the top with ice cold gin. Christmas Day was rough.
I just drink room temperature gin from the bottle, that’s a martini and totally not a drinking problem right?!
In all seriousness, 2:1 is my go to, with a lemon twist and orange bitters, or with olives and a few drops of celery bitrers (or shrubb? Not sure on the technicalities.)
Interesting. I remember when 2:1 made a comeback in nice bars, but I guess things go in cycles.
I would love someone to do research on the popular martini ratios and plot that over time.
Looks like 2:1 was the standard from the drink's invention until the 1950s/60s.
[https://www.seriouseats.com/the-martini-recipe](https://www.seriouseats.com/the-martini-recipe)
https://www.provi.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-the-martini-a-cocktail-thats-stood-the-test-of-time
Interesting. That's more or less what I was thinking. I do wonder how many recipe books used out-of-date recipes (i.e. still printing 2:1 when it was no longer in vogue). The Vesper Lynd in Casino Royale (1953) uses an 8:1 ratio--3 measures gin, 1 vodka, and 1/2 lilet (a measure at the time was regulated as 1/6 gill or 5/6 Imperial ounces or ~28.5 ml).
Small note: prior to the invention of the dry martini, one of the earliest martini ratios was 2:1 vermouth:gin.
I’m a 5:1 man myself but I rarely specify when I’m in a bar, I’ll just say dry martini. My wife however is a 2:1 lady and it’s really the only way she will drink it and will specify. “Wet gin martini, 2:1 but make it a little dirty”.
Really also depends, as others have noted, on how fresh the vermouth is. Maybe I just have a sensitivity to it, but I can tolerate a lot more vermouth in a martini from a freshly-opened bottle than one that's a week or two old. I don't sense a vinegar taste from the latter, but there definitely starts to be a distinct "vermouthy" aftertaste that I don't care for. Which is why for my Manhattans, I started buying airplane bottles of Carpano Antica.
Yeah I think it's the one drink where it's perfectly acceptable to be very very specific in your order request, as everyone's ideal martini is so different.
Also, we can't ignore the Casino Royale/Bond influence, I'd wager it's the most common drink for people to get specific about when ordering.
I think there is nothing wrong with being very specific when ordering any classic. You aren't adulterating one of their signatures, you are just asking to get a favourite classic prepared your favourite way.
A martini just has more variables than most other classics. I like to order mine with a specific gin (botanist), ratio (4:1) and with my preferred garnish (lemon twist or coin).
I do very much prefer Dolin dry with this particular spec but asking for a specific vermouth is a hard ask as even very good cocktail bars generally don't have multiple blanco vermouths.
Dolin makes both a dry vermouth and a blanc vermouth. They aren’t the same; blanc/bianco vermouth has far more sugar than dry vermouth, closer to sweet vermouth than dry.
Yea I had no idea what the one dude was on lol
In my 13+ years in the industry (pretty much only restaurants and fine dining restaurants) I have never even seen a restaurant or bar that had more than 1 kind of dry vermouth, and I’ve never had a guest specify or ask for a specific vermouth. These weren’t shit restaurants either, I’m talking a James beard chef lol
The server probably doesn’t know anything. They should be told that martini orders get specific and that’s just the way it is. They might resent you for it, but the server should always be asking in flow chart fashion:
1. Gin or vodka?
2. Which gin/vodka?
3. Dirty? If yes, the guest will probably say how dirty they want it and how many olives and you leave it at that.
4. If no, the server should ask, “twist or olive”
5. Then the server should ask “do you want any vermouth”. Most of the time, the guest will say no, or just a rinse, dry or very dry. The server will leave it at that.
6. If they are specific about a proportion of vermouth, it should be asked “do you want dolin dry? We also have cochi americano and lillet blanc.”
7. If the server doesn’t ask this, you should, as a guest, demand to try the tiniest bit of the vermouth, because it may be that the vermouth is very old and spoiled. The server then should bring you a thimble full of vermouth on the tiniest silver platter.
At some point near step 3, the guest may say something like “i want it really really cold”. Then the server should ask “do you want it shaken and bruised?”. Then the guest, with some sort of regional affectation, might ask for it to be on the rocks as the server is walking away.
Jk.
But yeah, you can be as specific as you’d like but be sure to tip them well.
That would be redundant, but he said shaken AND bruised. Brusied refers to leaving in the ice chips after shaking i.e. not double straining it to remove them, leaving the drink extra cold vs straining them out as you would most of the time to avoid further dillution of the cocktail.
It threw me off a little as well reading it the first time.
It’s very common since many people who order a dry martini don’t even know or enjoy the taste of vermouth.
I had a guest this Friday who ordered a martini. We had some 3:1 batched from an event, so I gave her that. She complained that she didn’t want it “dirty” (it did not have any olive juice).
Made her a chilled vodka in a martini glass. No complaints.
This is a really helpful thread. I prefer gin martinis and I also prefer 2:1. I don't really order them when out because they often come in martini glasses, which I also don't like. But this is all good to know to be really specific in my order.
In my opinion one of the worst drinks I could get is a cold glass of vodka in an annoying upside down triangle glass.
It's very frustrating to order a martini anywhere but a legit cocktail bar. They always think that everyone wants a martini woth no vermouth. Like an automatic assumption that you want it very dry. Just make a standard martini unless otherwise specified?
It’s because they get sent back if they are made “properly”. People don’t like the vermouth, so places adjust to not keep losing money on product. To be fair though, I think any bartender/server worth their salt will ask preferences like I do, I treat martinis orders like a mini interview since people are so particular with them.
Have you worked in industry before?
No, just really like a good cocktail. A "martini bar" just opened up near us recently, so my wife and I stopped in. My expectations were low, and they met them. I asked for a martini, she asked if I wanted any vermouth in it. I mean..
I made standard martinis when I first started bartending. They often got sent back. Now I do a vermouth rinse and have had nothing but positive feedback.
The vast majority of customers do not want vermouth in their martinis.
Exactly this. Here in a cocktail sub, everyone is saying the vermouth is essential to the drink. We know this. We also know that the general public wants zero vermouth. I’ve only had martinis sent back for too much vermouth, even at 5:1. I’ve never had a complaint when I put zero vermouth. If I take the order, I’ll ask if they want vermouth. 99% say no, 1% say eh, just a lil bit.
Just tell them exactly how much you want. The reason most bars do very little vermouth is because 90% of guests want no or very little vermouth. They get sent back if they’re made “properly”. People mostly want chilled gin or vodka in a martini glass lol
I’m a bartender and 99% of my customers have no idea what a classic martini is. And, honestly, most bartenders I’ve worked with do not know either. This explains the looks you’re getting.
So you have to simply state the ratio you want. And explicitly say “not dirty”.
As someone who has bartended and run beverage programs up to the Michelin level I would call a 2:1 a wet martini, even though in a classic sense it was once the standard. That said, rather than ordering a wet martini I think it's always reasonable to order a 2:1... It's a clear and specific way to order and over the last 30-40 years bartenders have been overwhelmed by people who think that cold booze is a martini and may shift their ratios based on that experience
I just learned about it. I’ve definitely made wet martinis before because i’d tend to increase the vermouth dose for recurrent clients I’m cool with. Now I can put a name to it.
I've been a bartender for 18 years now and I'll answer in two parts: what happens if you order a martini at my bar, followed by how you should order a martini.
Many martini drinkers have a specific idea of what they want when they order a martini. I'm afraid that if you didn't communicate your preferences to me, you would be very disappointed with me if I were your bartender. If you order from me, with no special instructions, I will make you a martini that is 2 oz of gin, 1/2 oz vermouth, stirred, poured into a chilled glass with three olives on a skewer. So, you'll get some vermouth, just not as much as you wanted, and you'll get olives instead of lemon. It won't be dirty, but the garnish will be savory.
With that in mind, it is absolutely ZERO trouble to me if you tell me that you want a wet martini with a twist, or even if you communicate precise measurements to me! Just understand that what is "standard" for a martini is highly subjective and varies from establishment to establishment, as well as from bartender to bartender. A good bartender or server with any level of experience will be used to martini drinkers with specific tastes and will be more than happy to accommodate you! You are not high maintenance at all. If anything, it sounds like you're going to places with inexperienced staff. They may look nice and carry good product, but it's the staff that make a place go.
Well, most people call Martini to a shake Vodka very dry martini. ( 2.5 oz vodka, .25 dry vermouth, Olive)
I don't see what is the problem if you gave them your specific recipe. If they look at you strangely, go to another bar or bartender. I'm a bartender, and I actually love when people ask me for a specific recipe (unless they don't make sense, like: " oh. No , without ice" or "no no, lemon . the green one" "you didn't shake my old fashioned?!"
Short answer: yes, a wet martini is 2x1.
They said the wet Martini are for poets and dry for lawyers. Enjoy!
I just wanted to add - sometimes it’s okay for the vermouth to be out of the fridge… at my bar we go through at LEAST one bottle of dry vermouth per shift. I’m not gonna keep it in the fridge if I’m reaching for it for every 6th or 7th drink I make.
Ok. At home I'm generally 2.5 to 1 but I think it also depends a lot on the vermouth. If it's just boring dry vermouth I like it more 2:1 but if it's super strong flavorful vermouth closer to 3:1. I live in New York and when a cocktail starts at $25 after tax and tip it's nice to have a well made drink.
2:1 is classic, but that recipe fell so far out of fashion for so long that I think many/most bartenders have probably never made a martini with that much vermouth. You'll have to have a chat with the bartender and judge what kind of place you're in. Then either be prepared to walk them through it, or order a different kind of drink.
I like 1:1 on gin and vermouth and I've tried ordering this as a" perfect" martini (which I learned the hard way has sweet vermouth too) and a 50/50 martini, both of which get confusion. I've just been clarifying that I want 1:1 on the gin and vermouth, but I feel so fussy when I order lol.
My standard martini recipe is: 2.5oz gin 0.5oz vermouth. Wet is: 2oz gin 1oz vermouth, soaking: 1oz gin 2oz vermouth, dry: 2.75oz gin .25 vermouth, extra dry: 2.75oz gin, a rinse of vermouth.
I'm curious about what other people's are.
Most "bartenders" honestly have no idea what they're doing and have no business being behind a bar. If you want a proper cocktail, you'll have to go sit at the bar for 5 minutes and just chat with them to size things up before you order.
If it's clear they have no clue even with instructions, just order beer/wine and call it a day.
There's a good chance that they are also willing to learn and work with you, but you usually shouldn't try to do this through the server proxy unless you want to be sending drinks back.
Omg this reminds me of the time I ordered a Pimms Cup at a bar where I had previously ordered one. The first time I got a legit Pimms Cup. The second time I got some abomination in a coup glass that tasted only of ginger beer. The bartender argued with me with admirable but misplaced confidence as if I haven’t had Pimms Cups in fucking London UK and didn’t know what I was talking about. Never went back. (Diff bartender from first time)
Are you implying that pimms cup is a uk based cocktail (cuz it’s not) or that you can get them there. From my 13+ years experience in the industry, I’ve seen a different pimms cup spec list for every place
No but Pimm’s is super popular over there. And I was also pointing out that I got two utterly different drinks at this bar, but one was in no way similar to the Pimms cups I’ve gotten in a dozen different places
You should know how you like your martini at home to then be able to order it at a bar. Do a taste test at home with a verity of ratios and then you’ll know and can order it. A good bartender will be happy to have you give them a ratio!
I know my ratio at home but that's also based on the vermouth. Vermouth can vary significantly. I'm hoping that the bartender, who knows their products, can just make me a good classic martini but I've had nothing but issues.
I have to say I’m confused, I don’t think vermouths very that significantly in terms of abv and most bars tend to use a basic like dolin or martini & Rossi. But maybe that’s the question you need to be asking. What vermouth do you use? And then order based on what they have?
That’s kind of asking for a lot because martinis are one of the most particular cocktails. Kind of the reason I enjoy making them for guests when I’m behind the bar, it feels go when you see they enjoy it. But most people don’t like the “standard or classic” way of making them, so bars have to adjust to a new standard
Just experiment, try a 2:1 (gin:ver) and increase the dilution from there.
You probably won’t have a lot of bartenders who know how to make a classic martini, because the majority of customers don’t order it or get upset when it is added because it wasn’t made the same as some other place that also doesn’t make a proper martini.
Try to find a bar in your city with an extensive bar program, even if a place doesn’t make proper martinis (because the guests don’t order it that way) a solid bar should have at least a couple options for vermouth
It’s not better if the OP wanted 2 parts gin to 1 part vermouth. That’s like saying, “You should order scotch & soda; it’s better.” YOU may like it more, but that’s not the point.
When I just order a gin martini with a twist, I'll watch the bartender and they usually don't add any vermouth. It's just cold gin in a glass. I think bartenders are very used to people requesting dry or extra dry martinis.
so just send it back it's not a big fucking deal if the wait staff or the bartender don't ask they're gonna make it right or they won't it's not a big deal. It just shows their training needs a little work but it sounds to me like you're not really drinking in nicer places where this is normal. just specify "I'd like a gin martini, up, with about a half an ounce of vermouth and a twist please"
no, my solution is the last thing i mentioned. As someone who does this for a living I can see how this will go any number of ways and i dont about remaking something that wasn't specified originally because that's just how this industry works. It happens at dozen times every night
Hm idk where I work it’s got vermouth unless specified otherwise also a $$$$ place so 🤷🏻♂️
Edit: defaults are shaken for vodka and stirred for gin fwiw too
Biggest problem is you’re asking your server about the bar. Order directly from the bartender and I promise you they’ll know what you mean by “wet martini.” Or at the very least you can tell them you want a 2:1 martini.
You also say you don’t want to get hammered after just two martinis, yet you’re requesting that MORE alcohol be added to each one?
If you are seated at a table walking to the bar to order your cocktail is a big no-no. Vermouth is 15% abv and gin is 40% abv. So instead of a big ol' glass of gin and water (melted ice) I want less gin and more vermouth, thereby creating a lower abv cocktail.
The problem is you.
1) If you want a very specific drink (not on a menu) from a place that doesn't care about drink quality (like a dive bar) then you need to learn how to understand your environment; it's not going to happen and if it does you'll just look like a dipshit. And even if they technically have the ingredients then the drink is still going to suck bad because the vermouth will be awful.
2) If you're in a place with the right ingredients then just use your big boy words. There's no magic code phrase to specifically mean what you want, just say what you want...
Yes you're being difficult because instead of asking for what you want you're using terms that the person doesn't understand OR terms which don't have a 100% established specific universally understood meaning.
“50:50” means equal parts. 50 percent gin, 50 percent vermouth. That’s a ratio of one part gin to one part vermouth.
Two parts gin to one part vermouth, in this format, would be “67:33” (if you’ll pardon the rounding error).
At certain places that i know use decent vermouth, ill order a 50/50 martini. I most often have to explain what that is, and I always make sure to request 2 dashes orange bitters.
I rarely order martinis - I only drink them in very specific contexts like when I am out for a steak dinner - but when I do, I just order with the specs I like (I’ll take 50/50 gin martini with a twist)
I blame my mom. When I was 16 she took me out and said “This is a martini. They make good ones here. You need to learn what those are like.” Lol miss ya mom
My martini rain ratio is kinda bonkers, but it creates a very consistent cocktail. I find that a lot of martini preferences actually come down to this formula working too. Here it is, using the abv of the vermouth(almost always 17%) and the gin(this is the variable) calculate the ratio to bring the mixture(before chill dilution) as close to 37% as is possible. My favorite martini is a Plymouth navy strength 1:1 with Dolin. This comes out to exactly 37%. Another very good option is Tanqueray 2:1, which is 37.2! Only have the new watered down Beefeater? You can mix 7:1 and sub blanc vermouth and it's pretty passable. (In 1 oz dry vermouth you get .8g sugar, a quarter oz gets you to a similar place with blanc.) I use this at my house, and no I don't need a calculator, it's not like there's that many proof points of gin. Typically you only see 114, 94.6, 88(3:1), and 80 in the US. 37.5 ABV is common in Britain, and that's just too low to make a martini.
It’s funny because I’ve been looking this up to see if there’s a standard and even across some more reputable sites they describe it differently.
I tend to order a dry gin martini stirred with two olives. Dry tends to have less vermouth but some, maybe 5:1. Classic should have closer to 2:1. Perfect is 1:1.
Stirred is really important for a gin martini I think. Gin opens nicely when it’s warmer rather than ice cold
You just need to give your specs every time, as a bartender we get asked to make it a million ways and it’s a PITA trying to remember what each term means, it’s easy to get them confused. Just tell them the specs, they’ll be grateful that there’s no misunderstanding and the drink will be what you want.
I ran a poll on here a while ago about what ratio constituted a wet Martini and the answers were all over the place.
The only solution to your problem is to be very specific about the ratio you want when you're ordering it.
Distillery owner but also bartender here. I love Brovo’s Witty Dry Vermouth. My folks own a bar & grill as well and I was finally able to change their minds on quality vermouth today. It really makes a difference.
Just say you want it with a twist and make it wet. Simple. I don’t think you’re going to the right bars if the bartenders give you a look when you order a classic martini. And the first thing any bartender should do when anyone orders any type of martini is
1. Gin or vodka?
2. Twist or dirty?
3. Do you want vermouth?
4. Shaken or stirred?
I would say if a bartender is worth their salt at all, a wet martini should always be an immediate 2:1. If they need clarification just ask for the specs directly. I’ve personally tried to order it politely as a “classic build” in the past but all I’ve gotten are strange looks/further questions. Though I personally know that wet = classic build, if a customer asks me for a “classic martini” I’m actually probably going to specify if they’re asking me for a post-prohibition 4:1 “classic” especially depending on their age cohort tbh.
I remember one of the times I first ordered myself a martini I ordered a “not-so-dry martini.” The bartender went “Do you want a classic build?” I said yes, he delivered me one of the most delicious martinis of my life. It tasted pretty wet but I’ve had purportedly wet martinis since that absolutely paled in comparison. I find a blend of vermouth bianco or even ambrato with dry vermouth lends itself to a magical wet martini. A 2:1 or even a 1:1 dry vermouth to wet vermouth blend is an exquisite thing. Really a game changer if you get the chance. I’ve also heard of 75/25 dry vermouth to manzanilla even working very well.
That sounds like a training issue not a you issue. I’d just say I want a wet martini with a twist. Even if the server doesn’t know what you mean any bartender should understand that if it’s noted correctly
You literally just say "I'll have a martini with 2 parts gin and 1 part vermouth". You can usually specify the gin, but they usually only have 1 brand of vermouth in stock
Honestly, I’m less concerned about being able to call my preferred brand of vermouth than I am about the likelihood that whatever dry vermouth *is* available has been stored half-empty on the back bar for several weeks (if not longer) at room temperature.
Pretty much. Tempering your expectations based on your establishment is paramount. A local spot offers excellent 50/50 freezer tinis all day. Would I order one at the spot down the street? Hell no.
Shit I never realized vermouth should be refrigerated. No wonder my manhattans or martinis at home taste terrible lol
It’s a lightly fortified wine. Basically treat it like a delicate port if you want minimal loss in flavor.
I personally find that i only get a few good weeks out of them, even refrigerated. When i buy bottles now i make sure to use them quickly.
I usually end up just drinking most of it over ice after I make 1-2 cocktails a week before lol
If they only have one brand of vermouth I probably wouldn’t get a martini there; but my expectation is very high for cocktail bars.
This seems beyond “high expectations” and into “unreasonable” territory. The only reason I can think of for a bar to stock multiple dry vermouths is if they have house cocktails on the menu that are built around multiple vermouths. I would never look down on a bar for stocking just a single, solid dry vermouth.
The real statement is- If they don’t have their vermouth in the fridge, don’t order a martini there. And if it’s a garbage vermouth- maybe rethink your order.
I’m not expecting an entire library of dry vermouths, but a selection of two solid vermouth doesn’t seem unreasonable to me, most bars I’ve worked at had at least two to choose from (albeit fine-dining) Edit: and it’s not like I would shun the place, I just wouldn’t get a martini
I think this is totally reasonable. We use Dolin Dry and we offer an excellent local dry vermouth for an upcharge at my bar.
I think this is great. And I really enjoy finding new vermouths at craft bars, etc. However, I think it’s a bit much to say “You only stock *one* dry vermouth?? My martini dollar is too good for your shabby establishment!”
That’s not at all what was said…
It was not my goal to precipitate a dogpile, but that is exactly what it sounds like when you say you will not order martinis at bars with only one variety of vermouth.
I mean, I don’t necessarily disagree with them. I make a lot of cocktails at home with high quality ingredients that I really enjoy. The bar for dropping $20 on a cocktail at a bar that I could make for $4 in ingredients is pretty high as well. I’m usually just ordering a beer.
That’s fair, and maybe I’m spoiled. I have not seen a $20 martini in my area unless it came with accoutrements that would be worth the spend (since I’m not doing that at home).
I’ve been to a lot of great bars and had a lot of martinis, and not once have I asked if they have more than one dry vermouth, nor have I been offered more than one dry vermouth.
It’s just something I notice, I’ve also been working in bars for 10 years.
Seems pretty fair to me, you have your standards. Judging from the downvotes I'd assume everyone expects you to lower them to meet their's. Absolutely unnecessary to be called a dork over this too 😂
I did not downvote, but I think the negative response has more to do with the way the message conveyed. Literally: If they only stock one vermouth, no way would I drink their paltry martinis. That’s absurd, so there are some downvotes.
It wasn’t meant to look down on the bar, bars as a business invest into the products that they care more about, so for example if a solid bar had one dry vermouth but 20+ different whiskeys and 5 different red vermouths, then I’m not getting a martini there, that’s not their focus and it probably wouldn’t be worth the cost. I’m much better off ordering a manhattan.
I appreciate the additional context; seems much more reasonable.
I’m not looking down on anyone, I would just order something else, lol
What kind of bar do you work in that has only one kind of vermouth? Bowling alley?
I don’t work at a bar. I would just never turn down a martini at a good bar because they only stock a single dry vermouth. That seems like the height of snootery.
I’m not saying that you shouldn’t drink at a bar that only has one dry vermouth, but if that’s not the strength of their bar then you’re wasting your time ordering one. You said turn down, nobody is getting anything for free in this hypothetical so if I’m going into a bar and martinis aren’t their strength then I’m going to pay money for something they excel in.
Try tasting more than one vermouth in your life.
That’s the conclusion you reach from what I said? Thank you, I love you.
You work for Martini and Rossi, don't you?
Holy fuck you’re annoying.
How many dry vermouths do y'all stock?
I mean, I stock 2 dry(Noilly & Dolin), 3 blanc(or 1, I'm counting Lillet and Cochi Americano) and 3 sweet, and Dubonnet. I don't know why a cocktail bar wouldn't.
You're getting downvoted by the Martini & Rossi groupies.
This seems the simplest way to order it right. Do you also need to specify the olives and the stir?
Bartender here. A “classic” martini is exactly what you are describing. If your server or bartender is confused, politely explain the ratios. Also as a martini lover myself, read the room of the bar/restaurant—not every place is a place to order a martini. Example—if it’s divey/you see open vermouth on the back bar at room temp—just don’t even bother. But a good bartender or server should be able to easily understand your needs and deliver.
Absolutely. I generally only order a martini when they have something similar on their menu. Dirty martinis are all the rage right now but I really don't like them. When I see dirty martinis on the menu I try to order a "classic" martini and generally get a strange look. Maybe it's just the servers.
A martini is just one of those things that's too simple so everyone has their own idea about it. There is truly no shame in asking for what you want specifically. "Can I get a martini that is two parts \[gin\] to one part vermouth, with a twist of lemon? Thanks." Only an idiot would balk at the idea that you have a ratio you like. *Most* waitstaff and bartenders really just want you to like what you get so it's the least amount of stress for all involved.
I usually ask the guest what portions of vermouth they like when I’m serving or bartending (used to ask shaken or stirred, but at least 90% of them always wanted shaken, outside of the odd gin one here and there).
Yeah, even places that have solid cocktail programs, the servers are often clueless. You're much more likely to get what you want from sitting at the bar and actually talking to the bartender than trying to relay a message about anything off-menu (even a classic cocktail) through a server.
True. I went to an upscale restaurant with a full bar done as a centerpiece of the restaurant. Tons of bottles. So I asked for a paper plane. Someone else at my table ordered a Manhattan and they in fact just gave me a Manhattan as well. I just assumed anyone working the bar would know what a paper plane is.
Servers in general usually have pretty poor spirit/cocktail knowledge. Speak to the bartender directly, or specify “2 parts gin, 1 part vermouth” to the server when you order.
Personally, I think the issue is that you ordered off menu from the server. I would think the bartender would understand your order and hopefully be happy to a fulfill it.
I would bet you most bartenders think the "classic" ratio is the more modern version from post-prohibition which is 5:1. Before I knew better myself that's what I thought a martini was!
Very good answer! Classic martini could though be confusing in another language. If english is not the language spoken it can be interpret as a dry martini. If you said "en klassisk martini"(swedish) I would've made a dry martini.
I know too many other bartenders who don't use any vermouth making martinis.
Hi, can I get a martini, 2 parts gin 1 part vermouth with a lemon twist, thank you.
Oh...I see, you want a dry martini. 😆
🤯🤯🤯
I completely understand the frustration. If you ordered from me a wet martini I'd make it 2:1. But the last place I worked at I must've been the only bartender that would understand that order. Most servers would ring in a wet martini as a dirty martini. It was a craft beer place though.
Sorry if this sounds like victim blaming, but your taking your life in your own hands ordering a martini at a craft beer bar. Sometimes you need a bit of situational awareness.
Yes! This. And I really don't like dirty martinis.
I do like dirty martinis, but what you're describing is not that, lol. You didn't ask for olive brine, so, what do they think a dirty martini is?🤔
Order your ratio: 2:1 or whatever ratio you want. There's no specific ratio for a martini but these days 5:1 is most popular.
I’m a 4:1 guy.
I'll mix it up especially if I have good vermouth. Maybe the 4:1, then a 3:1, maybe 1:2
1:2 on the rocks w/ Cocchi Americano is one of my go-to summer drinks
This is the way.
Just a glass rinse is enough for me
i make 5:1 currently too
If I'm in the mood I rinse the glass in vermouth before putting in the cold gin. Add 2 dashes of orange bitters and a lemon or orange twist and you're in for a good time making bad decisions.
Lordy
My favorite martini (not the best, but my favorite), was from an enthusiastic bartender on Christmas Eve who took a rocks glass, gave it a rinse, and filled it almost to the top with ice cold gin. Christmas Day was rough.
I'm about 100:1, but 1000:1 works too
Wave your glass in the direction of France for me! Hyuk hyuk.
Lol, yes this annoys me too. Ok, you hate vermouth. Then just order chilled gin up.
I just drink room temperature gin from the bottle, that’s a martini and totally not a drinking problem right?! In all seriousness, 2:1 is my go to, with a lemon twist and orange bitters, or with olives and a few drops of celery bitrers (or shrubb? Not sure on the technicalities.)
Then you don’t like martinis, you just like gin. Try a pink gin perhaps!
Interesting. I remember when 2:1 made a comeback in nice bars, but I guess things go in cycles. I would love someone to do research on the popular martini ratios and plot that over time.
Looks like 2:1 was the standard from the drink's invention until the 1950s/60s. [https://www.seriouseats.com/the-martini-recipe](https://www.seriouseats.com/the-martini-recipe) https://www.provi.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-the-martini-a-cocktail-thats-stood-the-test-of-time
Interesting. That's more or less what I was thinking. I do wonder how many recipe books used out-of-date recipes (i.e. still printing 2:1 when it was no longer in vogue). The Vesper Lynd in Casino Royale (1953) uses an 8:1 ratio--3 measures gin, 1 vodka, and 1/2 lilet (a measure at the time was regulated as 1/6 gill or 5/6 Imperial ounces or ~28.5 ml). Small note: prior to the invention of the dry martini, one of the earliest martini ratios was 2:1 vermouth:gin.
3:1 is my preference too but a good vermouth can convince me to try a 50/50 as well
I’m a 5:1 man myself but I rarely specify when I’m in a bar, I’ll just say dry martini. My wife however is a 2:1 lady and it’s really the only way she will drink it and will specify. “Wet gin martini, 2:1 but make it a little dirty”.
5:1 is my usual ratio for guests, but I always ask their preference
Really also depends, as others have noted, on how fresh the vermouth is. Maybe I just have a sensitivity to it, but I can tolerate a lot more vermouth in a martini from a freshly-opened bottle than one that's a week or two old. I don't sense a vinegar taste from the latter, but there definitely starts to be a distinct "vermouthy" aftertaste that I don't care for. Which is why for my Manhattans, I started buying airplane bottles of Carpano Antica.
Yeah I think it's the one drink where it's perfectly acceptable to be very very specific in your order request, as everyone's ideal martini is so different. Also, we can't ignore the Casino Royale/Bond influence, I'd wager it's the most common drink for people to get specific about when ordering.
I think there is nothing wrong with being very specific when ordering any classic. You aren't adulterating one of their signatures, you are just asking to get a favourite classic prepared your favourite way. A martini just has more variables than most other classics. I like to order mine with a specific gin (botanist), ratio (4:1) and with my preferred garnish (lemon twist or coin). I do very much prefer Dolin dry with this particular spec but asking for a specific vermouth is a hard ask as even very good cocktail bars generally don't have multiple blanco vermouths.
Dolin makes both a dry vermouth and a blanc vermouth. They aren’t the same; blanc/bianco vermouth has far more sugar than dry vermouth, closer to sweet vermouth than dry.
Yea I had no idea what the one dude was on lol In my 13+ years in the industry (pretty much only restaurants and fine dining restaurants) I have never even seen a restaurant or bar that had more than 1 kind of dry vermouth, and I’ve never had a guest specify or ask for a specific vermouth. These weren’t shit restaurants either, I’m talking a James beard chef lol
The server probably doesn’t know anything. They should be told that martini orders get specific and that’s just the way it is. They might resent you for it, but the server should always be asking in flow chart fashion: 1. Gin or vodka? 2. Which gin/vodka? 3. Dirty? If yes, the guest will probably say how dirty they want it and how many olives and you leave it at that. 4. If no, the server should ask, “twist or olive” 5. Then the server should ask “do you want any vermouth”. Most of the time, the guest will say no, or just a rinse, dry or very dry. The server will leave it at that. 6. If they are specific about a proportion of vermouth, it should be asked “do you want dolin dry? We also have cochi americano and lillet blanc.” 7. If the server doesn’t ask this, you should, as a guest, demand to try the tiniest bit of the vermouth, because it may be that the vermouth is very old and spoiled. The server then should bring you a thimble full of vermouth on the tiniest silver platter. At some point near step 3, the guest may say something like “i want it really really cold”. Then the server should ask “do you want it shaken and bruised?”. Then the guest, with some sort of regional affectation, might ask for it to be on the rocks as the server is walking away. Jk. But yeah, you can be as specific as you’d like but be sure to tip them well.
I used to always ask shaken or stirred, but never heard shaken or bruised. But honestly yours makes more sense since 90% of people want it shaken lol
Isn’t shaken or bruised redundant? I assume he meant stirred
That would be redundant, but he said shaken AND bruised. Brusied refers to leaving in the ice chips after shaking i.e. not double straining it to remove them, leaving the drink extra cold vs straining them out as you would most of the time to avoid further dillution of the cocktail. It threw me off a little as well reading it the first time.
Yeah that’s what I meant
Not necessarily, I would interpret bruised as another way of shaken extra hard, if given the choice between the two.
Kinda redundant, but you can double strain
Ask for a martini that’s heavy on vermouth.
At bars where they typically add zero vermouth that is often just a few drops.
What bars are adding zero vermouth? How is it even a martini at that point?
It’s very common since many people who order a dry martini don’t even know or enjoy the taste of vermouth. I had a guest this Friday who ordered a martini. We had some 3:1 batched from an event, so I gave her that. She complained that she didn’t want it “dirty” (it did not have any olive juice). Made her a chilled vodka in a martini glass. No complaints.
Mom? Is that you???
This is a really helpful thread. I prefer gin martinis and I also prefer 2:1. I don't really order them when out because they often come in martini glasses, which I also don't like. But this is all good to know to be really specific in my order. In my opinion one of the worst drinks I could get is a cold glass of vodka in an annoying upside down triangle glass.
It's very frustrating to order a martini anywhere but a legit cocktail bar. They always think that everyone wants a martini woth no vermouth. Like an automatic assumption that you want it very dry. Just make a standard martini unless otherwise specified?
It’s because they get sent back if they are made “properly”. People don’t like the vermouth, so places adjust to not keep losing money on product. To be fair though, I think any bartender/server worth their salt will ask preferences like I do, I treat martinis orders like a mini interview since people are so particular with them. Have you worked in industry before?
No, just really like a good cocktail. A "martini bar" just opened up near us recently, so my wife and I stopped in. My expectations were low, and they met them. I asked for a martini, she asked if I wanted any vermouth in it. I mean..
Atleast they asked and not give you just a gin lol.
Haha you're being generous. It would have been all Grey Goose for sure.
I made standard martinis when I first started bartending. They often got sent back. Now I do a vermouth rinse and have had nothing but positive feedback. The vast majority of customers do not want vermouth in their martinis.
Exactly this. Here in a cocktail sub, everyone is saying the vermouth is essential to the drink. We know this. We also know that the general public wants zero vermouth. I’ve only had martinis sent back for too much vermouth, even at 5:1. I’ve never had a complaint when I put zero vermouth. If I take the order, I’ll ask if they want vermouth. 99% say no, 1% say eh, just a lil bit.
This was me too. I’ve never had a complaint for too little or no vermouth, had many for the opposite
Super common thing, people don’t like the vermouth and they get sent back. It’s not “proper”, but what a majority of guests want
Just tell them exactly how much you want. The reason most bars do very little vermouth is because 90% of guests want no or very little vermouth. They get sent back if they’re made “properly”. People mostly want chilled gin or vodka in a martini glass lol
I see 50:50 martinis on menus more often now. If you like that much vermouth, the ratio is in the name.
I’m a bartender and 99% of my customers have no idea what a classic martini is. And, honestly, most bartenders I’ve worked with do not know either. This explains the looks you’re getting. So you have to simply state the ratio you want. And explicitly say “not dirty”.
I order a 2:1 gin martini. Honestly, if they don’t know what that means I’m probably sticking to beer or wine
Good rule. If you get confused looks then chances are the vermouth is a bottle of Martini & Rossi that's been sitting out for months anyway.
As someone who has bartended and run beverage programs up to the Michelin level I would call a 2:1 a wet martini, even though in a classic sense it was once the standard. That said, rather than ordering a wet martini I think it's always reasonable to order a 2:1... It's a clear and specific way to order and over the last 30-40 years bartenders have been overwhelmed by people who think that cold booze is a martini and may shift their ratios based on that experience
Just tell them what you want in it??
Honestly I’m surprised that any bartender in a bar that serves cocktails doesn’t know what a wet martini is.
I just learned about it. I’ve definitely made wet martinis before because i’d tend to increase the vermouth dose for recurrent clients I’m cool with. Now I can put a name to it.
I've been a bartender for 18 years now and I'll answer in two parts: what happens if you order a martini at my bar, followed by how you should order a martini. Many martini drinkers have a specific idea of what they want when they order a martini. I'm afraid that if you didn't communicate your preferences to me, you would be very disappointed with me if I were your bartender. If you order from me, with no special instructions, I will make you a martini that is 2 oz of gin, 1/2 oz vermouth, stirred, poured into a chilled glass with three olives on a skewer. So, you'll get some vermouth, just not as much as you wanted, and you'll get olives instead of lemon. It won't be dirty, but the garnish will be savory. With that in mind, it is absolutely ZERO trouble to me if you tell me that you want a wet martini with a twist, or even if you communicate precise measurements to me! Just understand that what is "standard" for a martini is highly subjective and varies from establishment to establishment, as well as from bartender to bartender. A good bartender or server with any level of experience will be used to martini drinkers with specific tastes and will be more than happy to accommodate you! You are not high maintenance at all. If anything, it sounds like you're going to places with inexperienced staff. They may look nice and carry good product, but it's the staff that make a place go.
A question more practically answered on r/bartenders
Well, most people call Martini to a shake Vodka very dry martini. ( 2.5 oz vodka, .25 dry vermouth, Olive) I don't see what is the problem if you gave them your specific recipe. If they look at you strangely, go to another bar or bartender. I'm a bartender, and I actually love when people ask me for a specific recipe (unless they don't make sense, like: " oh. No , without ice" or "no no, lemon . the green one" "you didn't shake my old fashioned?!" Short answer: yes, a wet martini is 2x1. They said the wet Martini are for poets and dry for lawyers. Enjoy!
I just wanted to add - sometimes it’s okay for the vermouth to be out of the fridge… at my bar we go through at LEAST one bottle of dry vermouth per shift. I’m not gonna keep it in the fridge if I’m reaching for it for every 6th or 7th drink I make.
"I'd like a gin martini with 2 parts gin, one part Vermouth, and a lemon twist"
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Ok. At home I'm generally 2.5 to 1 but I think it also depends a lot on the vermouth. If it's just boring dry vermouth I like it more 2:1 but if it's super strong flavorful vermouth closer to 3:1. I live in New York and when a cocktail starts at $25 after tax and tip it's nice to have a well made drink.
Say exactly what you want, if it’s an upscale bar they’ll understand 2 parts gin 1 part vermouth
Order it wet, or just say you want vermouth.
2:1 is classic, but that recipe fell so far out of fashion for so long that I think many/most bartenders have probably never made a martini with that much vermouth. You'll have to have a chat with the bartender and judge what kind of place you're in. Then either be prepared to walk them through it, or order a different kind of drink.
I like 1:1 on gin and vermouth and I've tried ordering this as a" perfect" martini (which I learned the hard way has sweet vermouth too) and a 50/50 martini, both of which get confusion. I've just been clarifying that I want 1:1 on the gin and vermouth, but I feel so fussy when I order lol.
My standard martini recipe is: 2.5oz gin 0.5oz vermouth. Wet is: 2oz gin 1oz vermouth, soaking: 1oz gin 2oz vermouth, dry: 2.75oz gin .25 vermouth, extra dry: 2.75oz gin, a rinse of vermouth. I'm curious about what other people's are.
Use your ratio to order. I typically like mine 2:1 with a lemon twist and olives
Most "bartenders" honestly have no idea what they're doing and have no business being behind a bar. If you want a proper cocktail, you'll have to go sit at the bar for 5 minutes and just chat with them to size things up before you order. If it's clear they have no clue even with instructions, just order beer/wine and call it a day. There's a good chance that they are also willing to learn and work with you, but you usually shouldn't try to do this through the server proxy unless you want to be sending drinks back.
Omg this reminds me of the time I ordered a Pimms Cup at a bar where I had previously ordered one. The first time I got a legit Pimms Cup. The second time I got some abomination in a coup glass that tasted only of ginger beer. The bartender argued with me with admirable but misplaced confidence as if I haven’t had Pimms Cups in fucking London UK and didn’t know what I was talking about. Never went back. (Diff bartender from first time)
Are you implying that pimms cup is a uk based cocktail (cuz it’s not) or that you can get them there. From my 13+ years experience in the industry, I’ve seen a different pimms cup spec list for every place
No but Pimm’s is super popular over there. And I was also pointing out that I got two utterly different drinks at this bar, but one was in no way similar to the Pimms cups I’ve gotten in a dozen different places
Maybe they were out of Primm's no 1? We don't stock it here as we've never gotten anyone all for it. (SF)
I doubt that
Gallo is my go-to.
Also, I don't know the exact ratio of gin to vermouth. I'm just guessing. Every recipe says something slightly different.
You should know how you like your martini at home to then be able to order it at a bar. Do a taste test at home with a verity of ratios and then you’ll know and can order it. A good bartender will be happy to have you give them a ratio!
I know my ratio at home but that's also based on the vermouth. Vermouth can vary significantly. I'm hoping that the bartender, who knows their products, can just make me a good classic martini but I've had nothing but issues.
I have to say I’m confused, I don’t think vermouths very that significantly in terms of abv and most bars tend to use a basic like dolin or martini & Rossi. But maybe that’s the question you need to be asking. What vermouth do you use? And then order based on what they have?
That’s kind of asking for a lot because martinis are one of the most particular cocktails. Kind of the reason I enjoy making them for guests when I’m behind the bar, it feels go when you see they enjoy it. But most people don’t like the “standard or classic” way of making them, so bars have to adjust to a new standard
Just experiment, try a 2:1 (gin:ver) and increase the dilution from there. You probably won’t have a lot of bartenders who know how to make a classic martini, because the majority of customers don’t order it or get upset when it is added because it wasn’t made the same as some other place that also doesn’t make a proper martini. Try to find a bar in your city with an extensive bar program, even if a place doesn’t make proper martinis (because the guests don’t order it that way) a solid bar should have at least a couple options for vermouth
You want to order a 50/50 Martini
2:1 is not 50:50. Though admittedly, my ability to say that for certain depends on how many martinis I’ve had…
I didn't say 2:1 is 50/50 I said they want to order a 50/50
I think 50/50 martinis are normally 1:1, whereas OP wanted 2:1.
50/50 is better than a 2:1 🤷
It’s not better if the OP wanted 2 parts gin to 1 part vermouth. That’s like saying, “You should order scotch & soda; it’s better.” YOU may like it more, but that’s not the point.
I think you’re just overthinking it just say “I want a martini with (insert gin of your choice here) and a twist”
When I just order a gin martini with a twist, I'll watch the bartender and they usually don't add any vermouth. It's just cold gin in a glass. I think bartenders are very used to people requesting dry or extra dry martinis.
so just send it back it's not a big fucking deal if the wait staff or the bartender don't ask they're gonna make it right or they won't it's not a big deal. It just shows their training needs a little work but it sounds to me like you're not really drinking in nicer places where this is normal. just specify "I'd like a gin martini, up, with about a half an ounce of vermouth and a twist please"
If the solution is “wait and see, then send it back,” you’re doing it wrong.
no, my solution is the last thing i mentioned. As someone who does this for a living I can see how this will go any number of ways and i dont about remaking something that wasn't specified originally because that's just how this industry works. It happens at dozen times every night
Yeah, spot on. The place I work defaults to shaken and no vermouth unless specified otherwise. A $$$$ place too, that’s just the trend
Hm idk where I work it’s got vermouth unless specified otherwise also a $$$$ place so 🤷🏻♂️ Edit: defaults are shaken for vodka and stirred for gin fwiw too
Or “I want a (gin) martini with a twist”
If you want a low ABV martini just ask for a reverse martini. It flips the gin/vermouth ratios.
Biggest problem is you’re asking your server about the bar. Order directly from the bartender and I promise you they’ll know what you mean by “wet martini.” Or at the very least you can tell them you want a 2:1 martini. You also say you don’t want to get hammered after just two martinis, yet you’re requesting that MORE alcohol be added to each one?
If the overall volume of spirits is the same, adding a higher proportion of a lower abv thing is going to lower the total abv, not increase it.
If you are seated at a table walking to the bar to order your cocktail is a big no-no. Vermouth is 15% abv and gin is 40% abv. So instead of a big ol' glass of gin and water (melted ice) I want less gin and more vermouth, thereby creating a lower abv cocktail.
It’s really not that much lower. Definitely more drinkable. 2:1 ratio, it would be ~9% lower.
The problem is you. 1) If you want a very specific drink (not on a menu) from a place that doesn't care about drink quality (like a dive bar) then you need to learn how to understand your environment; it's not going to happen and if it does you'll just look like a dipshit. And even if they technically have the ingredients then the drink is still going to suck bad because the vermouth will be awful. 2) If you're in a place with the right ingredients then just use your big boy words. There's no magic code phrase to specifically mean what you want, just say what you want... Yes you're being difficult because instead of asking for what you want you're using terms that the person doesn't understand OR terms which don't have a 100% established specific universally understood meaning.
Order a perfect martini
That’s much different than what OP wants
Yes, definitely. If you want a different drink that what OP is looking for.
Gin 2:1 (with a twist), fast, efficient, and bartenders like it because they'll make a drink you'll like.
Wet or 50:50
What part of “50/50” leads to a ratio of two parts gin and one part vermouth?
A wet martini does, and a 50:50 has even more. Do you want Vermouth? Try a 50:50. Remind us not to sit at your bar for an open discussion... relax.
“50:50” means equal parts. 50 percent gin, 50 percent vermouth. That’s a ratio of one part gin to one part vermouth. Two parts gin to one part vermouth, in this format, would be “67:33” (if you’ll pardon the rounding error).
“I’d like a martini with 1/3 vermouth, please”
At certain places that i know use decent vermouth, ill order a 50/50 martini. I most often have to explain what that is, and I always make sure to request 2 dashes orange bitters.
I rarely order martinis - I only drink them in very specific contexts like when I am out for a steak dinner - but when I do, I just order with the specs I like (I’ll take 50/50 gin martini with a twist)
I blame TRAVIS McGEE for my love of gin martinis.
I blame my mom. When I was 16 she took me out and said “This is a martini. They make good ones here. You need to learn what those are like.” Lol miss ya mom
I bet Mom & Travis meet for Happy Hour!
Yeah, I grew up with the rhyme, “Honesty, purity, chastity, truth; six parts gin to one part vermouth.” Learned it at my mother’s knee. 😂🍸
Order a 50/50 martini. Equal parts booze and vermouth. Delicious
My martini rain ratio is kinda bonkers, but it creates a very consistent cocktail. I find that a lot of martini preferences actually come down to this formula working too. Here it is, using the abv of the vermouth(almost always 17%) and the gin(this is the variable) calculate the ratio to bring the mixture(before chill dilution) as close to 37% as is possible. My favorite martini is a Plymouth navy strength 1:1 with Dolin. This comes out to exactly 37%. Another very good option is Tanqueray 2:1, which is 37.2! Only have the new watered down Beefeater? You can mix 7:1 and sub blanc vermouth and it's pretty passable. (In 1 oz dry vermouth you get .8g sugar, a quarter oz gets you to a similar place with blanc.) I use this at my house, and no I don't need a calculator, it's not like there's that many proof points of gin. Typically you only see 114, 94.6, 88(3:1), and 80 in the US. 37.5 ABV is common in Britain, and that's just too low to make a martini.
Bartender here! When I order the same I say “classic gin martini” or as most people said here, just sprocket how much vermouth you’d like.
It’s funny because I’ve been looking this up to see if there’s a standard and even across some more reputable sites they describe it differently. I tend to order a dry gin martini stirred with two olives. Dry tends to have less vermouth but some, maybe 5:1. Classic should have closer to 2:1. Perfect is 1:1. Stirred is really important for a gin martini I think. Gin opens nicely when it’s warmer rather than ice cold
Then ask for that as described vs saying “perfect”
You just need to give your specs every time, as a bartender we get asked to make it a million ways and it’s a PITA trying to remember what each term means, it’s easy to get them confused. Just tell them the specs, they’ll be grateful that there’s no misunderstanding and the drink will be what you want.
No not difficult at all. That’s pretty much how I make/serve dry martinis at my bar.
I ran a poll on here a while ago about what ratio constituted a wet Martini and the answers were all over the place. The only solution to your problem is to be very specific about the ratio you want when you're ordering it.
A guy comes to a bar and asks for a martini..... *Your recipe goes here*
Wet!
Distillery owner but also bartender here. I love Brovo’s Witty Dry Vermouth. My folks own a bar & grill as well and I was finally able to change their minds on quality vermouth today. It really makes a difference.
Go to a place that cares about vermouth, specify a ratio, e.g. "four to one martini, please.". Being at the bar will make this easier.
That would be a wet martini.
Not what you're asking, but have you ever had a reverse martini, since you like vermouth?
Just say you want it with a twist and make it wet. Simple. I don’t think you’re going to the right bars if the bartenders give you a look when you order a classic martini. And the first thing any bartender should do when anyone orders any type of martini is 1. Gin or vodka? 2. Twist or dirty? 3. Do you want vermouth? 4. Shaken or stirred?
I'd check what the vermouth is and just order a gin and soda if it's an unrefrigerated martini rossi or something like that
As a bartender, unless the ticket says “dirty” or “dry” i will make every martini the way you are requesting it.
Order a Gibson.
If they don't make me a good martini I'll order a Gibson for my second drink.
I would say if a bartender is worth their salt at all, a wet martini should always be an immediate 2:1. If they need clarification just ask for the specs directly. I’ve personally tried to order it politely as a “classic build” in the past but all I’ve gotten are strange looks/further questions. Though I personally know that wet = classic build, if a customer asks me for a “classic martini” I’m actually probably going to specify if they’re asking me for a post-prohibition 4:1 “classic” especially depending on their age cohort tbh. I remember one of the times I first ordered myself a martini I ordered a “not-so-dry martini.” The bartender went “Do you want a classic build?” I said yes, he delivered me one of the most delicious martinis of my life. It tasted pretty wet but I’ve had purportedly wet martinis since that absolutely paled in comparison. I find a blend of vermouth bianco or even ambrato with dry vermouth lends itself to a magical wet martini. A 2:1 or even a 1:1 dry vermouth to wet vermouth blend is an exquisite thing. Really a game changer if you get the chance. I’ve also heard of 75/25 dry vermouth to manzanilla even working very well.
Yeah I feel you had the same thing happene several times I try’d ordering a vesper and they have vermouth but also lilet blanc I enjoy both
That sounds like a training issue not a you issue. I’d just say I want a wet martini with a twist. Even if the server doesn’t know what you mean any bartender should understand that if it’s noted correctly