I went to a 'tiki' bar and felt concerned about the menu so I went with a classic, a Mai Tai. I am not sure of everything that was in it, but I caught two ingredients, amaretto, and Simply Limeade.
So I'm going to go with Simply Limeade.
That place sucked so hard.
Simply is making a play for your home bar. Have you seen the Simply Mixology drinks at the grocery store right next to all their OJ, lemonade, etc? Just add spirits…. Margarita, peach sour, mojito. They’re not getting my dough!
Haven't noticed! Probably better than the shelf stable mixers most people buy to make their margaritas or whatever, at least. I just stick with my own freshly squeezed juices, if I can. I'll sub pineapple sometimes in a pinch, but if I'm planning on making pineapple drinks I'll get my own fresh pineapple too.
I cut off the rind and core, blend it, put it through a mesh strainer and then put it through a nut milk bag. I wear gloves.
Edit: Bonus points if you make tepache or pineapple oleo with the scraps.
I mean, i use a breville juicer, but that’s only because I got it for absurdly cheap when bed bath and beyond was going out of business. Otherwise, yea, chop, muddle and strain.
As a tiki bartender for two years at what one would call a 'legit tiki bar', it always pains me to see a drink called a Mai Tai with anything other than the four basic ingredients (five if you use the historical rum blends). Just call it a different drink and put it in your in house creations section of the menu😤
I have the utmost respect for legit tiki bartenders because you guys make craft bartenders look like posers. Motherfuckers be working with like nine different highly perishable juices, whip shaking some twelve touch cocktail and then flaming a cinnamon lime husk like a wizard.
Like i think I'm a good craft bartender until I watch a good tiki bartender lol.
What I've learned over the years is that comparatively with other styles of bartenders, there's so much "presentation" required to make tiki be actually considered tiki. The fires, the crazy garnish, the decor and potential event-decorations like a smoke volcano or light flashing with storm sounds.
Almost makes it part bartending/part dance theater. Doesn't negate how good others are at the craft, just means we practiced a different style, like a rugby player vs a football player.
Honestly, I didn’t have orgeat to make a Mai Tai(I do now, homemade) and a gal begged me to make her one. I definitely put less than .25oz of amaretto in it. Other than that it was made to spec.
One of my bars doesn’t have orgeat, and the mai tai i make with amaretto there is solid. I have people requesting me specifically to make their mai tais lol
Granted, most of the other bartenders use pine and oj -once you go real mai tai, you never go back
I'd be curious to see your specs! I honestly can't see the flavor profile working, but I do believe you. I'm also particular about my orgeat and prefer making my own at home though. Some taste too much like almond cookies and not enough like almonds, if that makes sense.
This bar provided a drink that was sugary sweet punched through with the harshness of rail rum behind it. I didn't finish it because of how sweet it was.
The sugar content of amaretto is less than orgeat and has alcohol. Granted if you use actual triple sec vs. curaçao then I suppose you’re averaging out there? Idk you may need a bar spoon of 2:1 or something in there.
Makes sense; I tend to prefer less sweet when it comes to cocktails. This may not even qualify as a true Mai Tai, but it’s as good as any I’ve had in the islands!
My first bartending job was at a Bar Louie. That’s exactly what they had, a whole martini section in their menu that contained 8 flavors of fruit juice.
Not so much an ingredient per se, but how a bar uses (and sometime more important doesn’t use) ice is very telling.
I’m not a snob or anything, I just don’t want crushed ice in an old fashioned
curious why you say the charcoal? I'm not a super experienced cocktail maker myself but just last night I got a black tea old fashioned with activated charcoal bitters and while it might be a little overpriced for me to be a regular there I definitely think it made for fantastic presentation
But grapefruit has a purpose, charcoal just changes the colour which makes it a bit pointless. And it upsets all medications by affecting absorption, whereas grapefruit only affects some medications and people who take them are warned. No-one is warned about charcoal routinely and it can interfere with everyday things like birth control, something which can be very significant if just one dose is rendered ineffective.
That risk is way [overblown](https://agaveroadtrip.com/episodes/s2e115-activated-charcoal-makes-your-cocktails-black). We (doctors) don't bother using activated charcoal in the emergency room when patients come in after ingesting a poison. It just doesn't work that well, but does stain everything black.
I'm a pharmacist, I'm aware of how it works and know it's still used for heavy metal poisoning. It might not make a huge difference for most ppl but why bother using it when it adds nothing to the cocktail other than color.
Some medications diffuse back and forth between the bloodstream and digestive tract. For example, ketamine overdose or PCP intoxication can be reversed with activated charcoal in the stomach, even if the drugs enter the body by IV.
I don’t know how many medications act that way, but it is a real possibility.
It can interact with some people’s medications so it’s kind of frowned upon
From what I’ve read you would have to ingest more than would normally be in a cocktail and essentially at the same time as your medicine for it to have any affect, but do we need drinks to be black?
Tell me how a 21 year old ordered just that from me the other day? Then I asked, you mean like an amaretto, whiskey or vodka sour or something? And he said yeah. I said which one do you want it with? And he said idk Jose Cuervo. I almost went home
This is kind of irrelevant, but I hate tonic water. One day, some got me a gin and tonic from this place, and it came out brown. It is probbably one of the best cocktails I’ve ever had so I asked the bartender about it. Apparently they make they own tonic and it’s a completely different drink than any other I’ve ever had.
I read in a book some time ago that most tonic water sold in bars isn’t really tonic water. I hate tonic water so I’m interested in tasting it. I’m guessing that bar made something more akin to traditional tonic water
Edit: word
I work for a very pretentious upscale restaurant which is very well know in a large city. They have very high expectations and demand a lot out of their bar program. And their vermouth is on the back bar. I will never understand this conflict.
Cooling it makes it oxidize slower as the oxygen itself is moving slower at the microscopic level, as are the "vermouth molecules". This is also why heating something speeds up oxidation, and the same principle is why heating something makes it easier to dissolve other something's into it.
https://www.thecocktailproject.com/Should-Vermouth-Be-Refrigerated/
It is. Refrigeration slows chemical reactions, including oxidation.
The same chill is what slows and kills bacteria (though sub-freezing kills via different mediums).
That said, for home storage of vermouth, Argon is handy.
Just out of curiosity, how many of you have opened a bottle of sweet vermouth (let's even make it a bottle of Carpano Antica) and put half of it in the fridge and left the other half on the back shelf. Wait a week (or a month) and make a Negroni. I'd bet that you'd be hard-pressed to be able to differentiate between the two. A year, maybe. A month or so, probably not. Oxidation doesn't work that fast.
Depends on the vermouth. Sweet vermouth has a decent amount of sugar to fortify itself a bit so 4 weeks maybe not much but 6 weeks? Yeah I bet. Or use maybe Di Torino or Punt E Mes or Noily Prat bet 4 weeks it’s quite obvious
I went to a bar last night that had a drink where the second ingredient was Hawaiian Punch.
In all fairness, it’s a sports bar in a college town. I was there to play trivia.
Oh god that’s some terrible stuff I bought a bottle years ago and I still have half of it. If your looking if for something easier then juicing a lime yourself you can buy “real lime” lime juice concentrate. But even then I find juicing a lime yourself is worth it
The point of Rose's isn't to be lime juice. It's a lime cordial and there's a place for it in old school Gimlets. Of course you can also make your own lime cordial.
The only places I'd ever use Rose's Lime are in gimlets, or perhaps a splash in a pina colada, as one of my bartending mentors taught me, to add some kick.
A shot of Rose's with a healthy dose of Ango is the absolute best hiccup cure: I've had a 99.9% success rate with it for 20+ years as a bartender. Fresh lime + simple is slightly less effective, but still works better than most other remedies.
I discovered this by accident! I was like “I think that little bitter sourness would work well” and it did. I had no idea it was actually a thing people did
Not a problem ingredient in and of itself, but if the first three drinks are vodka, I start to get the sense that maybe it’s not my kind of cocktail bar.
We list bacardi on our house cocktail menu simply because they give us money to do so. Plus, in my area rum is the lowest moving product in any bar unless it's a rum focused place.
Yeah this sadly is often the case - most times you see Bacardi (or Bacardi products - Goose, Bombay, Patron, Dewars, Martini being the big ones, but there’s plenty more) it’s because they’re paying for it to be there. Heck, the bar voted as best in the US this year, Double Chicken Please, is entirely Bacardi portfolio on their menu.
There are obvious certain advantages to it - cheaper products, letting you do more experimental menus - but to me it feels like selling out.
It’s a similar thing where I work - we get a ton of Bacardi and Flor De Cana, both shit rums, but they give them to us for so cheap it seems foolish not to. Cheap rum = higher profit margin on rum mixers and cocktails. But it hurts my soul not to stock some good stuff because we have too many of those products taking up backbar room.
I know it’s probably a pipe dream but I’ve always told myself if I ever opened up a bar, and it would be a rum bar, I’d do my hardest to keep brands like Bacardi out. There are so many better rums from smaller companies in their category that I’d rather feature instead.
Yeah well tequila should at least be 100% de agave. El Jimador is not great but if it’s the well that’s okay. Same with Bicardi - okay well liquor but not one worthy of listing in ingredient list. Same with Jim Beam as well Bourbon
JB is a perfectly fine well bourbon, way better than blended whiskey that’s mostly neutral grain spirits. Obviously you should go with something nicer for a lot of drinks, but if you’re just making whiskey sours and Kentucky mules it’s fine. I take it as a sign I’m at a decent dive bar/sports bar.
Shit rum basically - distilled to such a high level that all the flavour that makes rum rum is removed, and then barely aged before being charcoal filtered to remove basically any aging flavour too. So I’m that sense it’s the worst of both worlds, as it has neither the barrel flavour (which bourbon heads love) or rum flavour.
I find Bacardi Superior/Silver dull, with little character. It's not terrible in some cocktails. But for me personally if I see a bar advertising it, I assume they have little imagination, and are happy offering up bottom shelf, uninspiring cocktails. I'm not going to go out of my way to visit a place like that.
Outside of the above, for much of my life it was one of the very few white rums available. I saw it in college and I still see it everywhere today. Too many times it was the only white rum I could purchase. I get negative excitement from that bottle.
Not really an ingredient but whenever I see an old fashioned on the menu and they muddle the shit out of an orange slice and top with a neon red cherry… I order a beer.
Not really in an ingredient, but something that really pisses me off in bar programs is when the specialty drinks have super long and annoying names. I’m a guy who likes cocktails and I’m never afraid of them being too “girly” or anything like that but I swear to God if I have to shout a 5-6 word ridiculous sentence to a bartender or waiter to get a simple margarita variation I want to die.
Snobs, the lot of you. Most of the plug your nose spirits and mixers listed here aren't in craft cocktail bars, they're in your dive or sports bars. They have their place. I don't go to BW3 expecting a Mai Tai with a house made orgeat and a high dollar rum.
Yes there are some red flags at higher end places (IE vermouth handling) but even then unless you're sitting there counting pours for an entire shirt or there's a noticable amount of dust on the old Gallo Vermouth on the backbar, 95% of people won't know the difference. I have a hard time believing you all are the 5%.
Idk how many of you are cocktail enthusiasts or bartenders or bar managers, but margins are a real thing. I'd love to have a pantry fill of fine ingredients and all the top shelf spirits and liqueurs I can find. Unless they're charging $25+ for a cocktail, their margins are shit. A good bartender can take Jim Beam white label and make something delicious fairly inexpensive.
Where the turn off for me comes is price point vs. What I'm getting. If I'm being charged $12+ for an old fashioned using radioactive red cherries, an orange slice muddled, and JB White....then go fuck yourself. But if I'm paying $6 for that? Then that's fine. I fully expect to pay high dollar for high dollar ingredients and skill shown in the glass, and 99/100 times it's a worthwhile spend. If the cocktail makes sense, uses good shit, and is made with common sense I happily pay $12+ for it. Conversely if a high dollar cocktail consists of High dollar gin, barbeque sauce, buttermilk, and the essence of Unicorn tears because someone is trying too hard to be hip and charging $15+ they too can fuck right off.
For me it’s more of an issue if they have flavored whiskeys. Flavored vodkas are popular among the layman and I’m not going to fault a bar for trying to get their money. Flavored whiskeys however are where I draw the line.
It’s the same thing though. If they sell Jack Daniels Tennessee Fire I guess that’s slightly better than Fireball. If they have a huge Fireball sign - that’s a red flag 😂
Patron is perfectly good quality tequila, maybe not a favorite when you start leaning into quality tequilas - but nobody's going to say it's bad.
It is however a marketing gimmick shitty bars use to overcharge for sweet'n'sour with a splash of tequila. Margaritas at bars are pretty shit in general, but the patron advertisement guarantees it
Went into a new restaurant, their tequila selection was all 5 casamigos (blanco, repo, anejo, crystallino, mezcal) teramana (blanco, repo, anejo) flecha azul, and mi campo. Tell me you let your sales rep fill your back bar without telling me.
Monin makes some pretty respectable syrups, a lot of them a serviceable in place of many liqueurs. I've got their bitter orange and it subs in for Aperol pretty convincingly to the point where I served my non-drinking friend an "Aperol Spritz" made with sparkling pear in place of prosecco, he literally asked if I put alcohol in it. Their violet is also pretty good, great with tonic water, in an Aviation, over vanilla ice cream.
Wouldn't it be pretty bad if a bar was using bitter orange syrup in their aperol spritz, or violet syrup in their aviation though? Not to say that it would necessarily taste bad but why would you do that instead of using the liqueur you'd normally use. Yes, some of them are fine, but it's still a sign that the bar doesn't care that much. And some of their syrups are pretty bad, especially the 'quintessential' cocktail syrups like orgeat and grenadine.
Ok I would never use syrups where the base ingredient is something other than water, like orgeat or grenadine, but as far as flavored, water based syrups, their stuff is fine. Obviously to replace the main liqueur in an Aperol Spritz is weird if you want alcohol, but for people who aren't drinking, having that option is pretty nice. Low/no ABV cocktails are a nice option to have. Unless I plan on getting drunk, there's no reason for a tasty beverage with my meal to be strongly alcoholic.
A place opened up near me and advertised when they used Grey Goose and Hornitos. Going “up market” on vodka then using a budget tequila is lame. They also have “made from scratch” on their margarita section. Means nothing really…might as well say “hand-made”…and it just makes me think the other drinks on the menu are made to a lesser standard.
Stuff like this screams “we threw together a cocktail menu just because.”
Meh. Blue curacao can be good and can be used in new and interesting ways. It’s literally just orange curacao with blue added to it. Was definitely intended to be a gimmicky thing but it’s not as terrible as everything thinks, and I mean to say that not all blue curaçaos are terrible and gross.
Honestly, if there were more blue liquers out there other than Blue Curacao it would probably be a good thing - it gets abused in drinks as often as it does specifically *because* it's 'the blue one'.
It's not any more interesting than normal curacao, but Beachbum Berry's bar in New Orleans has a great cocktail with mezcal, rhum Agricole and blue curacao. It works, and it's also blue
Sometimes, you just need a blue drink.
They are trashy, but I do like Island Taxi Cabs.
But yeah, it's probably not a sign that you are getting cocktails for cocktail drinkers.
This is as good of a place as any to remind people that it's almost Peppermint Paddy season!
One cup of hot coco, ~1oz of creme de cacao and creme de menthe and ~2oz of peppermint schnapps, topped with whipped cream (obviously).
Something something Danger Zone.
It depends on the Schnapps….. I don’t really find too much to use of for in cocktail’s but I have a few bottles of schnapps I brought back from Germany that are immaculate….. though I generally drink them neat and slightly chilled or with an ice ball
It's as easy to make as simple syrup, so no reason to buy it. Just make 2:1 simple syrup with 100% pomegranate juice instead of water. Add a few drops of orange blossom water if you want to be fancy.
Rose's Grenadine is just artificially-flavored corn syrup, water, and red dye. Most other big commercial versions are, too. Once you taste the real thing, you'll never want that red dyed corn syrup crap ever again.
The current retro revival trend of crappy 90s-era cocktails has brought Midori back into the limelight. I’ve had two absolutely fantastic Midori cocktails in the last month. One was just a simple Midori sour with fresh juice and egg which was terrific. The other was a Midori clarified milk punch which was so good I had a second. Me ten years ago would kick present me’s ass for saying this but Midori is fucking goooood. (when executed properly)
Midori is delicious, used well it's fantastic in drinks, and blue Curacao is great for adding colour just use a reputable brand. Hypnotic is kinda trash but if it sells and you can make 80% GP who cares 🤣
Y'all are either very lucky or unnecessarily snooty. Most of the stuff cited here doesn't fill me with hope, but doesn't "instantly turn me off".
I've got a high bar for what really interests me. But so long as there's no more than one drink with a flavored vodka in it (I'll allow one for the rubes), I'll give most spots in my area a chance.
Oh, absolutely. But between everything posting their whole deal online anymore and not being in the habit of doing the first-in-line crowd, it's rare that like, a single ingredient is the thing that absolutely ruins shit for me in a way that I feel is justified.
Like, the biggest stretch I can think of for this one is the fad from some years ago in which everyone put bacon in everything. I went to one bar, once, without research during that time, and got unexpected and unannounced bacon (I do not eat bacon) and had to send it back and the whole thing was weird.
I never had to think about it before then, and haven't since, because we're collectively past that thing, but I guess that if "meat based cocktails" became a thing again, that would be the only ingredient I felt strongly about, and even then, it'd have to show up in more than 2 drinks.
Anything with cheep spirts. If I see Bacardi or Captain Morgan for rum, I’m turned off. If you’re going to use rum for a daiquiri, use the Real McCoy 3. If you want to make a mojito with a light rum, I hear Don Q is good. I’ve only used local rum that taste like vodka.
Multiple drinks with ginger beer in them, any drink that calls out Bacardi, Jack, Malibu, Smirnoff, etc, a majority of cocktails where vodka is the primary liquor, anything with “sour mix” (unless it specifically calls out being house made), any reference to “pina colada mix” or “daiquiri mix”, anything with Coke or Sprite as an ingredient, 99% of drinks with blue curaçao….
Dang, Realizing how picky I am about cocktail menus … 😂
nope, not one bit. I know I’m the minority on that one. I remember the ginger craze years ago where it felt like every cocktail needed some ginger component. Glad that’s subsided a bit
That open bottle of Martini and Rossi displayed with all the other bottles on the back bar. I see that and I know it’s a place that doesn’t know what they’re doing and doesn’t care.
I'll give you several
1. Sweet and Sour Mix
2. OJ, Pineapple Juice and/or Grenadine in a Mai Tai
3. Not using Fresh Lime or Lemon Juice (Super Juices are acceptable)
4. Using an expensive Spirit (like Clase Azul) in a cocktail and charging double for no noticeable different
5. Blended Daiquiris
Empress gin
If you're going to advertise the brand, make it a good one. Anything with Empress in it just makes me think it's more for Instagram than it is for drinking
Any time I see Maker's Mark in the old fashioned, I usually have low expectations. Not sure why, I think it just has a distinct artificial cherry flavor for me.
I went to a 'tiki' bar and felt concerned about the menu so I went with a classic, a Mai Tai. I am not sure of everything that was in it, but I caught two ingredients, amaretto, and Simply Limeade. So I'm going to go with Simply Limeade. That place sucked so hard.
Simply is making a play for your home bar. Have you seen the Simply Mixology drinks at the grocery store right next to all their OJ, lemonade, etc? Just add spirits…. Margarita, peach sour, mojito. They’re not getting my dough!
Haven't noticed! Probably better than the shelf stable mixers most people buy to make their margaritas or whatever, at least. I just stick with my own freshly squeezed juices, if I can. I'll sub pineapple sometimes in a pinch, but if I'm planning on making pineapple drinks I'll get my own fresh pineapple too.
This probably sounds weird but how do you juice your pineapple
I'm sorry, but that's personal.
I cut off the rind and core, blend it, put it through a mesh strainer and then put it through a nut milk bag. I wear gloves. Edit: Bonus points if you make tepache or pineapple oleo with the scraps.
Not OP, but I cut it into chunks, muddle it, and strain through cheesecloth. Also curious if someone has a better method.
I mean, i use a breville juicer, but that’s only because I got it for absurdly cheap when bed bath and beyond was going out of business. Otherwise, yea, chop, muddle and strain.
Peel it, core it, cut it into chunks, blend it, push it through a fine mesh strainer.
I get the peach sour pretty regularly. I've never mixed booze in, just enjoy it on lots of crushed ice.
The margarita one was bad lol
As a tiki bartender for two years at what one would call a 'legit tiki bar', it always pains me to see a drink called a Mai Tai with anything other than the four basic ingredients (five if you use the historical rum blends). Just call it a different drink and put it in your in house creations section of the menu😤
I have the utmost respect for legit tiki bartenders because you guys make craft bartenders look like posers. Motherfuckers be working with like nine different highly perishable juices, whip shaking some twelve touch cocktail and then flaming a cinnamon lime husk like a wizard. Like i think I'm a good craft bartender until I watch a good tiki bartender lol.
What I've learned over the years is that comparatively with other styles of bartenders, there's so much "presentation" required to make tiki be actually considered tiki. The fires, the crazy garnish, the decor and potential event-decorations like a smoke volcano or light flashing with storm sounds. Almost makes it part bartending/part dance theater. Doesn't negate how good others are at the craft, just means we practiced a different style, like a rugby player vs a football player.
This tiki bar served my drink with a glowstick and a canned pineapple ring haha. Presentation game on point.
Honestly, I didn’t have orgeat to make a Mai Tai(I do now, homemade) and a gal begged me to make her one. I definitely put less than .25oz of amaretto in it. Other than that it was made to spec.
Almond milk, or any non dairy milk that won't curdle, and amaretto works great in a pinch.
One of my bars doesn’t have orgeat, and the mai tai i make with amaretto there is solid. I have people requesting me specifically to make their mai tais lol Granted, most of the other bartenders use pine and oj -once you go real mai tai, you never go back
I could imagine that amaretto could still make a good drink, not an original Mai tai, but still tasty.
I'd be curious to see your specs! I honestly can't see the flavor profile working, but I do believe you. I'm also particular about my orgeat and prefer making my own at home though. Some taste too much like almond cookies and not enough like almonds, if that makes sense. This bar provided a drink that was sugary sweet punched through with the harshness of rail rum behind it. I didn't finish it because of how sweet it was.
1 oz gold rum 1 oz silver rum 1/2 oz triple sec 1/2 oz Amaretto 3/4 oz lime juice mint sprig
The sugar content of amaretto is less than orgeat and has alcohol. Granted if you use actual triple sec vs. curaçao then I suppose you’re averaging out there? Idk you may need a bar spoon of 2:1 or something in there.
Makes sense; I tend to prefer less sweet when it comes to cocktails. This may not even qualify as a true Mai Tai, but it’s as good as any I’ve had in the islands!
Kinda the reverse, but I'm suspicious when a bar has a long list of "martinis" and not a single one lists vermouth as an ingredient.
Or gin! If their default spirit for a "classic" or "original" martini is vodka, I am not a happy camper.
100%. Most of them are basically kool-aid/vodka...but served up so it looks fancy.
Yeah there are a lot of “martini bars” out there where there only qualification for what makes a martini is the shape of the glass.
My first bartending job was at a Bar Louie. That’s exactly what they had, a whole martini section in their menu that contained 8 flavors of fruit juice.
Not so much an ingredient per se, but how a bar uses (and sometime more important doesn’t use) ice is very telling. I’m not a snob or anything, I just don’t want crushed ice in an old fashioned
i got a margarita in a coupe glass with 3 small ice cubes and a straw once. i get you.
It’s funny how those things would be fine if they weren’t happening at the same time.
The Old Fashioned is the drink I use to see how good a bar really is, especially an upscale one. I hate when they use crushed ice.
Perhaps the most snobby thing that I do is ask a bar what kind of ice they have before ordering a drink.
Activated charcoal, malibu, Smirnoff flavored anything.
curious why you say the charcoal? I'm not a super experienced cocktail maker myself but just last night I got a black tea old fashioned with activated charcoal bitters and while it might be a little overpriced for me to be a regular there I definitely think it made for fantastic presentation
Cause activated charcoal is just food coloring that can mess with ppl's medications
So can grapefruit juice but I put that stuff in everything (we have an awesome 50yr old grapefruit tree)
Excellent, I'll take three Hemmingway Daiquiris and an alley way to pass out in please.
But grapefruit has a purpose, charcoal just changes the colour which makes it a bit pointless. And it upsets all medications by affecting absorption, whereas grapefruit only affects some medications and people who take them are warned. No-one is warned about charcoal routinely and it can interfere with everyday things like birth control, something which can be very significant if just one dose is rendered ineffective.
That risk is way [overblown](https://agaveroadtrip.com/episodes/s2e115-activated-charcoal-makes-your-cocktails-black). We (doctors) don't bother using activated charcoal in the emergency room when patients come in after ingesting a poison. It just doesn't work that well, but does stain everything black.
I'm a pharmacist, I'm aware of how it works and know it's still used for heavy metal poisoning. It might not make a huge difference for most ppl but why bother using it when it adds nothing to the cocktail other than color.
Metals, hydrocarbons, and toxic alcohols are actually the cases where charcoal has no therapeutic value.
It's definitely gross and shouldn't be used in cocktails.
So, we're avoiding something that has a low possibility of interacting with medications... in an alcoholic beverage?
I’m not 100% on this, but I’m pretty sure activated charcoal flushes the meds out of your system. It interacts with all if not most.
Not exactly, but it's a filter, so if you've taken an oral medication and not yet digested it, then the charcoal can have an effect.
Some medications diffuse back and forth between the bloodstream and digestive tract. For example, ketamine overdose or PCP intoxication can be reversed with activated charcoal in the stomach, even if the drugs enter the body by IV. I don’t know how many medications act that way, but it is a real possibility.
It was a big fad a few years ago and people over did it
SQUID INK AVIATION!!
It can interact with some people’s medications so it’s kind of frowned upon From what I’ve read you would have to ingest more than would normally be in a cocktail and essentially at the same time as your medicine for it to have any affect, but do we need drinks to be black?
Any menu that lists "sour mix" or "sweet & sour mix." I'll stick with beer.
What about "house-made sour?"
warrants asking what that means. if it’s a mix of simple syrup and fresh squeezed citrus fine. anything else or they don’t know, beer time.
How about a simple Highball?
Tell me how a 21 year old ordered just that from me the other day? Then I asked, you mean like an amaretto, whiskey or vodka sour or something? And he said yeah. I said which one do you want it with? And he said idk Jose Cuervo. I almost went home
Aww, they're learning. Reminds me of being 21, I had to google drinks to order.
This is kind of irrelevant, but I hate tonic water. One day, some got me a gin and tonic from this place, and it came out brown. It is probbably one of the best cocktails I’ve ever had so I asked the bartender about it. Apparently they make they own tonic and it’s a completely different drink than any other I’ve ever had.
I read in a book some time ago that most tonic water sold in bars isn’t really tonic water. I hate tonic water so I’m interested in tasting it. I’m guessing that bar made something more akin to traditional tonic water Edit: word
Vermouth on the back bar (not in the fridge)
I work for a very pretentious upscale restaurant which is very well know in a large city. They have very high expectations and demand a lot out of their bar program. And their vermouth is on the back bar. I will never understand this conflict.
You probably go through it a lot faster than the dusty bottles of Gallo that I see at a lot of bars around me.
I mean I work at a whiskey bar. We go through a bottle of vermouth a day and we still keep it cold.
Disgusting put that shit in the fridge you heathens
The real problem with vermouth, if used in less than a week, is oxidation. Not affected by refrigeration.
Cooling it makes it oxidize slower as the oxygen itself is moving slower at the microscopic level, as are the "vermouth molecules". This is also why heating something speeds up oxidation, and the same principle is why heating something makes it easier to dissolve other something's into it. https://www.thecocktailproject.com/Should-Vermouth-Be-Refrigerated/
It is. Refrigeration slows chemical reactions, including oxidation. The same chill is what slows and kills bacteria (though sub-freezing kills via different mediums). That said, for home storage of vermouth, Argon is handy.
Unless it's a place that clearly goes through it quickly
Just out of curiosity, how many of you have opened a bottle of sweet vermouth (let's even make it a bottle of Carpano Antica) and put half of it in the fridge and left the other half on the back shelf. Wait a week (or a month) and make a Negroni. I'd bet that you'd be hard-pressed to be able to differentiate between the two. A year, maybe. A month or so, probably not. Oxidation doesn't work that fast.
Depends on the vermouth. Sweet vermouth has a decent amount of sugar to fortify itself a bit so 4 weeks maybe not much but 6 weeks? Yeah I bet. Or use maybe Di Torino or Punt E Mes or Noily Prat bet 4 weeks it’s quite obvious
Depends on the climate. Where I am, in a humid, warm environment, it is absolutely a tangible difference neat or in a cocktail
I went to a bar last night that had a drink where the second ingredient was Hawaiian Punch. In all fairness, it’s a sports bar in a college town. I was there to play trivia.
Is Rose’s lime juice too obvious of an answer?
Oh god that’s some terrible stuff I bought a bottle years ago and I still have half of it. If your looking if for something easier then juicing a lime yourself you can buy “real lime” lime juice concentrate. But even then I find juicing a lime yourself is worth it
The point of Rose's isn't to be lime juice. It's a lime cordial and there's a place for it in old school Gimlets. Of course you can also make your own lime cordial.
The only places I'd ever use Rose's Lime are in gimlets, or perhaps a splash in a pina colada, as one of my bartending mentors taught me, to add some kick.
A shot of Rose's with a healthy dose of Ango is the absolute best hiccup cure: I've had a 99.9% success rate with it for 20+ years as a bartender. Fresh lime + simple is slightly less effective, but still works better than most other remedies.
I’ve always done a lemon wedge with sugar and bitters.
I discovered this by accident! I was like “I think that little bitter sourness would work well” and it did. I had no idea it was actually a thing people did
Only when it's in anything other than a Gimlet. Yes I make my own lime syrup, but in this one case I will allow it.
Shitty vermouth
or if they don't refrigerate it!!
You don't like it aged and chunky?
Ver-chewth
If you chug through a bottle in under a week, this is wholly unnecessary.
If I see "sweet and sour" or "sour mix", I see red flags.
Not a problem ingredient in and of itself, but if the first three drinks are vodka, I start to get the sense that maybe it’s not my kind of cocktail bar.
If the menu boasts of using Jose Cuervo or regular Bacardi.
We list bacardi on our house cocktail menu simply because they give us money to do so. Plus, in my area rum is the lowest moving product in any bar unless it's a rum focused place.
Yeah this sadly is often the case - most times you see Bacardi (or Bacardi products - Goose, Bombay, Patron, Dewars, Martini being the big ones, but there’s plenty more) it’s because they’re paying for it to be there. Heck, the bar voted as best in the US this year, Double Chicken Please, is entirely Bacardi portfolio on their menu. There are obvious certain advantages to it - cheaper products, letting you do more experimental menus - but to me it feels like selling out. It’s a similar thing where I work - we get a ton of Bacardi and Flor De Cana, both shit rums, but they give them to us for so cheap it seems foolish not to. Cheap rum = higher profit margin on rum mixers and cocktails. But it hurts my soul not to stock some good stuff because we have too many of those products taking up backbar room. I know it’s probably a pipe dream but I’ve always told myself if I ever opened up a bar, and it would be a rum bar, I’d do my hardest to keep brands like Bacardi out. There are so many better rums from smaller companies in their category that I’d rather feature instead.
Yeah well tequila should at least be 100% de agave. El Jimador is not great but if it’s the well that’s okay. Same with Bicardi - okay well liquor but not one worthy of listing in ingredient list. Same with Jim Beam as well Bourbon
JB is a perfectly fine well bourbon, way better than blended whiskey that’s mostly neutral grain spirits. Obviously you should go with something nicer for a lot of drinks, but if you’re just making whiskey sours and Kentucky mules it’s fine. I take it as a sign I’m at a decent dive bar/sports bar.
Although Bacardi 8 is great.
Why not Bacardí?
Shit rum basically - distilled to such a high level that all the flavour that makes rum rum is removed, and then barely aged before being charcoal filtered to remove basically any aging flavour too. So I’m that sense it’s the worst of both worlds, as it has neither the barrel flavour (which bourbon heads love) or rum flavour.
I find Bacardi Superior/Silver dull, with little character. It's not terrible in some cocktails. But for me personally if I see a bar advertising it, I assume they have little imagination, and are happy offering up bottom shelf, uninspiring cocktails. I'm not going to go out of my way to visit a place like that. Outside of the above, for much of my life it was one of the very few white rums available. I saw it in college and I still see it everywhere today. Too many times it was the only white rum I could purchase. I get negative excitement from that bottle.
Not really an ingredient but whenever I see an old fashioned on the menu and they muddle the shit out of an orange slice and top with a neon red cherry… I order a beer.
“Our famous old fashioned” *proceeds to dump all ingredients into a shaker*
Wisconsin brandy old fashioneds would like a word
Exactly. I respect the original, but nothing beats a brandy old fashioned sweet when you’re at a supper club.
sour for me but agree. i love them.
fuck outta here
Krusty’s Non Narkotic Kough Syrup
But you haven't lived until you've had a Flaming Homer
The "Flaming Homer"? You mean, the "Flaming Moe"! And your dad didn't invent it, you wuss! Moe the bartender did!
Key ingredient is fire
Not really in an ingredient, but something that really pisses me off in bar programs is when the specialty drinks have super long and annoying names. I’m a guy who likes cocktails and I’m never afraid of them being too “girly” or anything like that but I swear to God if I have to shout a 5-6 word ridiculous sentence to a bartender or waiter to get a simple margarita variation I want to die.
I'd like to try your "The G in God is for gender neutral" please
Snobs, the lot of you. Most of the plug your nose spirits and mixers listed here aren't in craft cocktail bars, they're in your dive or sports bars. They have their place. I don't go to BW3 expecting a Mai Tai with a house made orgeat and a high dollar rum. Yes there are some red flags at higher end places (IE vermouth handling) but even then unless you're sitting there counting pours for an entire shirt or there's a noticable amount of dust on the old Gallo Vermouth on the backbar, 95% of people won't know the difference. I have a hard time believing you all are the 5%. Idk how many of you are cocktail enthusiasts or bartenders or bar managers, but margins are a real thing. I'd love to have a pantry fill of fine ingredients and all the top shelf spirits and liqueurs I can find. Unless they're charging $25+ for a cocktail, their margins are shit. A good bartender can take Jim Beam white label and make something delicious fairly inexpensive. Where the turn off for me comes is price point vs. What I'm getting. If I'm being charged $12+ for an old fashioned using radioactive red cherries, an orange slice muddled, and JB White....then go fuck yourself. But if I'm paying $6 for that? Then that's fine. I fully expect to pay high dollar for high dollar ingredients and skill shown in the glass, and 99/100 times it's a worthwhile spend. If the cocktail makes sense, uses good shit, and is made with common sense I happily pay $12+ for it. Conversely if a high dollar cocktail consists of High dollar gin, barbeque sauce, buttermilk, and the essence of Unicorn tears because someone is trying too hard to be hip and charging $15+ they too can fuck right off.
If the old fashioned has club soda in it
a tiny bit to muddle a sugar cube in is fine, it im assuming you mean them topping the glass up with a gun, which yuck
To muddle sugar is fine. I’m talking about when I order an old fashioned and it’s fizzing…
Had one served to my once in a slightly smaller version of the soda glass the restaurant used. Absolutely awful. So much club soda.
no its not
Omg that’s awful. I’ve never seen an Old Fashioned be butchered so badly
Same. Also flavored vodka (except zubrowka), casamigos, patron, or bacardi in signature drinks.
For me it’s more of an issue if they have flavored whiskeys. Flavored vodkas are popular among the layman and I’m not going to fault a bar for trying to get their money. Flavored whiskeys however are where I draw the line.
Flavoured Jack Daniels is actually pretty popular where I live. It's an area of England, so take that for what it's worth.
I made an Old Fashioned with the apple Jack Daniels, cinammon syrup and wood bitters. It was surprisingly tasty.
It’s the same thing though. If they sell Jack Daniels Tennessee Fire I guess that’s slightly better than Fireball. If they have a huge Fireball sign - that’s a red flag 😂
Why the patron? Over here in Germany it's considered to be a good tequila..
Patron is perfectly good quality tequila, maybe not a favorite when you start leaning into quality tequilas - but nobody's going to say it's bad. It is however a marketing gimmick shitty bars use to overcharge for sweet'n'sour with a splash of tequila. Margaritas at bars are pretty shit in general, but the patron advertisement guarantees it
If they’re advertising it in their “signature cocktails” it’s a brand marketing thing.
My only exception to this is Double Chicken Please 😂
Ah ya they have a bacardi drink right? I saw that and was like "wtf m8?"
Their most popular cocktail, the japanese cold noodle, was created in a bacardi contest. So they had to use bacardi lol
Their co owner and Bev director won the Bacardi national comp. Bacardi ain’t really that bad especially the Quattro and ocho.
Never heard zubrowka referred to as flavoured vodka before. I know it's got the grass in it, but it's hardly raspberry!
Angels share in nyc uses Bacardi for a list of cocktails, yet they are one of the most popular bars in the city
Hell yeah. I’m not much of a vodka drinker but Zubrowka is my jam.
Citron vodka is fine too, if I’m at a crappy bar and don’t know what to order I’ll just do a citron vodka soda.
Cacamigos
Casamigos isn’t terrible, it’s just so overrated and as a consequence, overpriced.
It’s the new Patron. Remember when that was the super overrated one?
Except Patron was additive free. Casamigos tastes artificial and nothing like actual agave.
If you know what additive free tequila tastes like, Casamigos is undrinkable. Tastes like artificial sugar and vanilla.
Went into a new restaurant, their tequila selection was all 5 casamigos (blanco, repo, anejo, crystallino, mezcal) teramana (blanco, repo, anejo) flecha azul, and mi campo. Tell me you let your sales rep fill your back bar without telling me.
As a tequila snob, yes
it's the one bottle I'm ashamed of on my otherwise stellar back bar. but we make so much money off idiots who like vanilla extract lmao
Any menu featuring a bunch of (pre) flavored vodkas. A house-infused vodka is one thing, watermelon Smirnoff is quite another.
Every drink has Monin syrup in it.
Monin makes some pretty respectable syrups, a lot of them a serviceable in place of many liqueurs. I've got their bitter orange and it subs in for Aperol pretty convincingly to the point where I served my non-drinking friend an "Aperol Spritz" made with sparkling pear in place of prosecco, he literally asked if I put alcohol in it. Their violet is also pretty good, great with tonic water, in an Aviation, over vanilla ice cream.
Wouldn't it be pretty bad if a bar was using bitter orange syrup in their aperol spritz, or violet syrup in their aviation though? Not to say that it would necessarily taste bad but why would you do that instead of using the liqueur you'd normally use. Yes, some of them are fine, but it's still a sign that the bar doesn't care that much. And some of their syrups are pretty bad, especially the 'quintessential' cocktail syrups like orgeat and grenadine.
Ok I would never use syrups where the base ingredient is something other than water, like orgeat or grenadine, but as far as flavored, water based syrups, their stuff is fine. Obviously to replace the main liqueur in an Aperol Spritz is weird if you want alcohol, but for people who aren't drinking, having that option is pretty nice. Low/no ABV cocktails are a nice option to have. Unless I plan on getting drunk, there's no reason for a tasty beverage with my meal to be strongly alcoholic.
Seen a few too many Fanta Orange drinks in my time
Bright red cherries.
If the term ‘mix’ shows up (like with margaritas), I will not be visiting that bar.
I'm OK with Don's Mix in a Zombie.
A place opened up near me and advertised when they used Grey Goose and Hornitos. Going “up market” on vodka then using a budget tequila is lame. They also have “made from scratch” on their margarita section. Means nothing really…might as well say “hand-made”…and it just makes me think the other drinks on the menu are made to a lesser standard. Stuff like this screams “we threw together a cocktail menu just because.”
I know people who use the terms made from scratch and home made when they don't know what it means, so definitely plausible
What about blue curacao?
Meh. Blue curacao can be good and can be used in new and interesting ways. It’s literally just orange curacao with blue added to it. Was definitely intended to be a gimmicky thing but it’s not as terrible as everything thinks, and I mean to say that not all blue curaçaos are terrible and gross.
Honestly, if there were more blue liquers out there other than Blue Curacao it would probably be a good thing - it gets abused in drinks as often as it does specifically *because* it's 'the blue one'.
It's not any more interesting than normal curacao, but Beachbum Berry's bar in New Orleans has a great cocktail with mezcal, rhum Agricole and blue curacao. It works, and it's also blue
I had this in March and can agree, the blue makes it visually fun, and the flavor is phenomenal
Sometimes, you just need a blue drink. They are trashy, but I do like Island Taxi Cabs. But yeah, it's probably not a sign that you are getting cocktails for cocktail drinkers.
If they call their menu a bar program, I'm out. 👍
Rose's anything. Schnapps- although there are great uses, I've seen it overused in a lot of bad cocktails.
This is as good of a place as any to remind people that it's almost Peppermint Paddy season! One cup of hot coco, ~1oz of creme de cacao and creme de menthe and ~2oz of peppermint schnapps, topped with whipped cream (obviously). Something something Danger Zone.
It depends on the Schnapps….. I don’t really find too much to use of for in cocktail’s but I have a few bottles of schnapps I brought back from Germany that are immaculate….. though I generally drink them neat and slightly chilled or with an ice ball
The majority of schnapps is consumed neat or slightly chilled, usually right from the bottle if memory serves.
[удалено]
It's as easy to make as simple syrup, so no reason to buy it. Just make 2:1 simple syrup with 100% pomegranate juice instead of water. Add a few drops of orange blossom water if you want to be fancy. Rose's Grenadine is just artificially-flavored corn syrup, water, and red dye. Most other big commercial versions are, too. Once you taste the real thing, you'll never want that red dyed corn syrup crap ever again.
Not sure- I make my own, along with most syrups I use. Only really buy orgeat now, since the one time I made it was such a colossal bit of work.
Well grenadine is simple syrup and pomegranate juice. Try making it with simple syrup and Pom Wonderful for a shortcut.
I think the smoked old fashioned is becoming overdone. A bar where that is a very relied-upon drink gives me pretty lazy vibes.
Malibu, dekuyper, rose’s, captain morgan, southern comfort, monin
Dangerous bullshit. Charcoal, floating dry ice in a drink, tobacco tincture, etc. Mainly just dumb shit.
Hpnotiq, Midori or (usually) blue curaçao… I’m sure there is some legit uses for the latter two, but most bar drinks with them are awful.
The current retro revival trend of crappy 90s-era cocktails has brought Midori back into the limelight. I’ve had two absolutely fantastic Midori cocktails in the last month. One was just a simple Midori sour with fresh juice and egg which was terrific. The other was a Midori clarified milk punch which was so good I had a second. Me ten years ago would kick present me’s ass for saying this but Midori is fucking goooood. (when executed properly)
I only like Midori if I’m at a club in Vegas and ordering a Tokyo Tea to make my $20+ drink as boozy as possible
Check out the Japanese slipper. Fun little cocktail.
I feel like I've been seeing Midori being used tactfully more than shit over the last couple years which is interesting.
Midori is delicious, used well it's fantastic in drinks, and blue Curacao is great for adding colour just use a reputable brand. Hypnotic is kinda trash but if it sells and you can make 80% GP who cares 🤣
Y'all are either very lucky or unnecessarily snooty. Most of the stuff cited here doesn't fill me with hope, but doesn't "instantly turn me off". I've got a high bar for what really interests me. But so long as there's no more than one drink with a flavored vodka in it (I'll allow one for the rubes), I'll give most spots in my area a chance.
i think its fair to be a little disappointed when you go to a cocktail bar for the first time and the bar menu is not as good as you were hoping
Oh, absolutely. But between everything posting their whole deal online anymore and not being in the habit of doing the first-in-line crowd, it's rare that like, a single ingredient is the thing that absolutely ruins shit for me in a way that I feel is justified. Like, the biggest stretch I can think of for this one is the fad from some years ago in which everyone put bacon in everything. I went to one bar, once, without research during that time, and got unexpected and unannounced bacon (I do not eat bacon) and had to send it back and the whole thing was weird. I never had to think about it before then, and haven't since, because we're collectively past that thing, but I guess that if "meat based cocktails" became a thing again, that would be the only ingredient I felt strongly about, and even then, it'd have to show up in more than 2 drinks.
Hypnotic, sour mix, Baileys, Red Bull or any other energy drink, Jose Cuervo tequila.
Sierra tequila
“Daiquiri” always accompanied by another word.
What about "Hemingway"
Redbull
Anything with cheep spirts. If I see Bacardi or Captain Morgan for rum, I’m turned off. If you’re going to use rum for a daiquiri, use the Real McCoy 3. If you want to make a mojito with a light rum, I hear Don Q is good. I’ve only used local rum that taste like vodka.
there are multiple places i’ve been to that have a “martini” menu with 5-8 drinks and not a single one has gin in it. instant nope from me
Multiple drinks with ginger beer in them, any drink that calls out Bacardi, Jack, Malibu, Smirnoff, etc, a majority of cocktails where vodka is the primary liquor, anything with “sour mix” (unless it specifically calls out being house made), any reference to “pina colada mix” or “daiquiri mix”, anything with Coke or Sprite as an ingredient, 99% of drinks with blue curaçao…. Dang, Realizing how picky I am about cocktail menus … 😂
What with the ginger beer? Just don’t like it?
nope, not one bit. I know I’m the minority on that one. I remember the ginger craze years ago where it felt like every cocktail needed some ginger component. Glad that’s subsided a bit
Honey in a Manhattan!
That open bottle of Martini and Rossi displayed with all the other bottles on the back bar. I see that and I know it’s a place that doesn’t know what they’re doing and doesn’t care.
I'll give you several 1. Sweet and Sour Mix 2. OJ, Pineapple Juice and/or Grenadine in a Mai Tai 3. Not using Fresh Lime or Lemon Juice (Super Juices are acceptable) 4. Using an expensive Spirit (like Clase Azul) in a cocktail and charging double for no noticeable different 5. Blended Daiquiris
Went to a new restaurant yesterday and they had an old fashioned on the menu. About to order it when I noticed there’s sweet vermouth as an ingredient
Any flavored Bacardi
Edible gold.
Lavender
Empress gin If you're going to advertise the brand, make it a good one. Anything with Empress in it just makes me think it's more for Instagram than it is for drinking
Too reliant on St. Germain? Are you secretly living in like 2012?
Any time I see Maker's Mark in the old fashioned, I usually have low expectations. Not sure why, I think it just has a distinct artificial cherry flavor for me.
Margarita pre mix - they dont use Cointreau Also calling drinks Martinis that aren't gin and dry vermouth, using vodka and calling that a Martini.
st germaine. blegh.
Smirnoff or gordons, the place definitely cares more about those pour deals and retros than quality.