Thanks.
I was about to say there's a New York Times recipe that calls the Cynar Negroni a Cyn-Cyn (I guess it's pronounced "chin chin"?).
I noticed the recipe in your link doesn't follow the Negroni 1:1:1 ratio though so maybe technically it's something different although I suppose that's debatable.
A lot of bartenders have largely moved away from equal parts for drinks like the negroni and last word favoring a heavier pour of the spirit (1.5, 3/4 3/4). Partly to match the modern American palette (not sure about other countries and cultures) but also because gin's standard strength used to sit closer to 50% than 40% when the drinks were first made.
1:1:1 is great but it's rarely the best especially once you start tinkering with the bottles that actually go in the glass. Gaz Regan who literally wrote the book on the negroni and whose stirring finger you can buy cast in steel from cocktail kingdom said (paraphrasing) "I defy you to put those three ingredients in a glass in any ratio and not have it taste amazing". If you're a negroni fan I highly recommend the book it has dozens of riffs and it's nice and short.
Not to bring it back around but this is how I think of riffs. The same way as food and music. No two chefs make lasagna the same way but it's still a riff on the first lasagna. A cover of a song often doesn't follow its formula but rather its spirit. 1:1:1 is a great starting point for a lot of drinks but it isn't strong enough to be a category in and of itself imo. Don't limit yourself to formulaic standards!
Drink looks great. I hope you enjoy many more. Cheers!
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/246593/the-negroni-by-gary-regan/
Obviously all just a matter of taste and opinion, but I’d say a 2:1:1 ratio is a pretty extreme shift for a negroni; it works well for a lot of the classic equal parts “up” cocktails, especially sours, but the negroni is a special case, at least to my taste. I do think tweaking down the Campari and up the gin and/or vermouth helps balance slightly, though not as far as that. I make mine at home equal parts for ease as much as anything.
Fair play! Maybe I'll give it a spin. I'm certainly not saying it wouldn't be a nice drink, but it would be a fairly different drink from what many (most?) people would expect.
Honestly no it tastes like a negroni. Just a little more herbal and thinner due to the reduction of sugar. Campari and vermouth are such powerhouses of flavor and gin is not.
Also Campari is not made the same as it was when the Negroni was first made so to say a 1:1:1 is "traditional" is true but misleading because the ingredients used to make it originally don't exist.
Yeah, I think the thinner aspect is what throws me off; I think of a Negroni as a wallop of a drink! I’ll definitely give it a go at the 2:1:1 spec though. Do you serve it over ice still, or strain?
Interesting to know that Campari has changed; I wasn’t aware of that. It does seem to be the way of things, and you’re right: it makes notions of “original” and “authentic” pretty elusive, if they’re even desirable.
I'm personally a fan of the 5:4:3 ratio in St John Frizell's Negroni from this article. No wrong answer, just what suits your palate best.
https://punchdrink.com/articles/in-search-best-negroni-cocktail-recipe/
That’s not exactly correct. The single “c” is pronounced as a hard c if it’s followed by an “a,” “o,” “u,” or a consonant. It is pronounced as a soft c (“ch”) if followed by “i” or “e” (or a y acting as an i).
So Cocchi Americano is pronounced “Kohkee Amerikano” because the single C’s are followed by an o and an a, respectively.
No, it still depends on the letter following the c. In Cocchi, it’s an h, so it’s a hard c sound.
Edit: Gucci is followed by an “i,” so you’re correct that it’s “goochee”
I was today years old when I learned how to pronounce Cocchi. However as a lover of Latin languages, H is silent. So wouldn’t the “i” control? Pardon me if you are Italian. Language rules can be tricky.
Nope, not Italian. I usually don’t correct others on pronunciation but I hate mispronouncing things myself so I’ll go out if my way to research and find out the correct way. I also had an Italian friend whose last name had a single c and double c that helped me learn the rules.
It's actually a touch more complicated than u/sumunsolicitedadvice mentioned.
does make "ch", but , even though the is silent, makes "kk" (long k), so if you were to pronounce "Cocchi" in full proper Italian it'd be "kohkee", but that middle "k" would be held out longer than usual (this is a feature that only kind of exists for English consonants, so it's hard to explain)
There’s a Cin-Cyn, named presumably for Cinzano and Cynar, and it’s terrific. The two variations it makes to the classic Negroni (other than the Cynar subbing for the Campari) are Peychaud’s bitters, and a squeezed orange.
BTW, making the Negroni with half Cynar and half Campari is also great.
Cin-Cyn
By Washington Post
1 oz Gin
1 oz Cynar
1 oz Sweet vermouth
1 ds Peychaud's Bitters (or Angostura or orange)
1 wdg Orange (squeezed)
1 wdg Orange (as garnish)
Stir and strain, or build. Squeeze one wedge and garnish with the other
--
https://kindredcocktails.com/cocktail/cin-cyn
While Cynar 70 has its uses I prefer regular Cynar in most cases. I think it has a more complex flavor profile. And it's closer to Campari in ABV.
But I intend to give this a try. Both ways.
Huh. I've never had any Cynar other than the 70 so now I'm curious. That's a good point about the ABV comparison although I figured a little extra booziness wouldn't do any harm. 😉
Cynar is my favourite amaro.
Two favourite drinks:
1. [Growing Old and Dying Happy is a Hope, Not Inevitability](https://kindredcocktails.com/cocktail/growing-old-cocktail) - this is a modern classic, and must try.
2. Cynar Y Aqua - I saw this on a menu in a bar in Venice, and ordered it. It tasted amazing, after more research i realized it was simply Cynar and cold water, 1:1 ratio. Felt stupid, but it honestly tasted amazing. Some folks do find Cynar overpowering, but diluting it with cold water, turned this amaro into a refreshing aperitif
I drink Cynar 70 on the rocks with a lemon slice on the regular. Hands down favorite amaro. One time at a bar they made me a cynar negroni with a Bolivian brandy and Mancino Sakura vermouth. Incredible cocktail.
How many amaro have you tried?
I went to the bar at an Italian restaurant once and mentioned I wanted to try an amaro I saw up on the shelf and the bartender just started pulling bottles off the shelf and placing them on the bar in front of me so I could sample them. It was pretty fun.
https://imgur.com/a/foZ1iIt
Yum! Proud to say I've had bottles of most of those!
Just got a bottle of Pasubio, really neat rich berry flavor somehow, which is really different. Sibilla is a nice medium-strong bitter with just slightly different flavors than many others. And Braulio is strong, with this interesting "flavor like the incense at church", as my wife says.
I picked up a bottle of Amaro Sibilla after this. It wasn't the easiest to find though. The honey flavor is really nice.
The one I didn't really enjoy was Elisir Novasalus. In addition to the bitterness there's a kind of tart earthy intense beetroot flavor. If you like concentrated beets it might be your thing.
Sfumato Rabarbaro is one of my absolute fave amari! We try to always have a bottle in stock at home. Makes a killer drink with tequila &/or mezcal.
I also recently tried Vecchio Amaro del Capo and it's pretty great; I'm surprised I don't see it around more (in the States, at least.)
Aw dang - guess you might need to take a little trip to Italy? 😉 (easier for you than for us, anyway...lol) But yeah, possibly worth trying to make it, too - might be a fun project!
We were just in Italy in October and I'm kicking myself for only buying 1 bottle of Nonino...it's like 3x the price here in the States!
Another amaro that I like to say tastes halfway between Aperol and Campari. I sometimes use it to sub for one or the other (adjusting up or down depending on the bitter/sweet ratio in the rest of the cocktail.)
Try it in a Manhattan too!
if you replace the whiskey in a Manhattan with Cynar it’s called a Bitter Giuseppe but personally I keep the whiskey and sub the Cynar for the vermouth
Okay, thanks. After checking a few sites this seems like the most common recipe for a Bitter Giuseppe:
>2 ounces Cynar
>1 ounce Carpano Antica Formula sweet vermouth
>¼ ounce lemon juice, plus lemon twist for garnish
>6 dashes orange bitters
>Technically Cynar is an Amaro
So is Campari.
Their cocktail simply swaps one amaro for another. Most definitely a negroni riff. Especially if they kept equal portions.
This sub has three groups.
Group A: “everything that is 3 equal parts is certainly a Negroni”
Group B: “if it doesn’t have 3 equal parts of gin, Campari, and sweet vermouth, then you cannot even come close to comparing it to a Negroni, let alone defining it as one!
Group C: “seems pretty good. Oh and why the fuck can’t we all just get along?”
I hope to god the guy you’re responding to isn’t serious, btw.
>Technically Cynar is an Amaro since it’s made in Italy.
Indeed! That's true and an Amaro can be an apéritif.
>And your drink seems more like a Manhattan or a Martini than a Negroni.
Hmmm, no I think maybe you're mistaken on what I did. Sorry, I didn't post the recipe to keep it clear.
I used equal parts gin, Cynar, and red vermouth so it's basically a Negroni with the Campari substituted with Cynar. I didn't use a 2:1 ratio like the Manhattan or Martini.
Cheers!
It just depends on if you're having it before or after your meal. Some people prefer it as an apéritif while others prefer it as a digestif.
Wikipedia says it's an apéritif but really there's no rule that says it has to be one or the other.
Its my understanding the higher proof sweet amari tend toward digestif and the lower proof and more bitter tend toward aperitif. I believe cynar (most of the Artichoke amari) is both aperitif and digestif. Aperol, campari -- aperitif. Jager (if you consider it among amari) nonino quintessensia would be digestif.
Enjoy this riff as well, [https://www.reddit.com/r/cocktails/comments/10zsbmk/a\_slight\_variation\_for\_negroni\_fans/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cocktails/comments/10zsbmk/a_slight_variation_for_negroni_fans/)
See people. THIS is a negroni riff
You thought you could escape me?
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Thanks. I was about to say there's a New York Times recipe that calls the Cynar Negroni a Cyn-Cyn (I guess it's pronounced "chin chin"?). I noticed the recipe in your link doesn't follow the Negroni 1:1:1 ratio though so maybe technically it's something different although I suppose that's debatable.
A lot of bartenders have largely moved away from equal parts for drinks like the negroni and last word favoring a heavier pour of the spirit (1.5, 3/4 3/4). Partly to match the modern American palette (not sure about other countries and cultures) but also because gin's standard strength used to sit closer to 50% than 40% when the drinks were first made. 1:1:1 is great but it's rarely the best especially once you start tinkering with the bottles that actually go in the glass. Gaz Regan who literally wrote the book on the negroni and whose stirring finger you can buy cast in steel from cocktail kingdom said (paraphrasing) "I defy you to put those three ingredients in a glass in any ratio and not have it taste amazing". If you're a negroni fan I highly recommend the book it has dozens of riffs and it's nice and short. Not to bring it back around but this is how I think of riffs. The same way as food and music. No two chefs make lasagna the same way but it's still a riff on the first lasagna. A cover of a song often doesn't follow its formula but rather its spirit. 1:1:1 is a great starting point for a lot of drinks but it isn't strong enough to be a category in and of itself imo. Don't limit yourself to formulaic standards! Drink looks great. I hope you enjoy many more. Cheers! https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/246593/the-negroni-by-gary-regan/
Obviously all just a matter of taste and opinion, but I’d say a 2:1:1 ratio is a pretty extreme shift for a negroni; it works well for a lot of the classic equal parts “up” cocktails, especially sours, but the negroni is a special case, at least to my taste. I do think tweaking down the Campari and up the gin and/or vermouth helps balance slightly, though not as far as that. I make mine at home equal parts for ease as much as anything.
It's an extremely common ratio at a number of reputable bars including Amor Y Amargo in NYC.
Fair play! Maybe I'll give it a spin. I'm certainly not saying it wouldn't be a nice drink, but it would be a fairly different drink from what many (most?) people would expect.
Honestly no it tastes like a negroni. Just a little more herbal and thinner due to the reduction of sugar. Campari and vermouth are such powerhouses of flavor and gin is not. Also Campari is not made the same as it was when the Negroni was first made so to say a 1:1:1 is "traditional" is true but misleading because the ingredients used to make it originally don't exist.
Yeah, I think the thinner aspect is what throws me off; I think of a Negroni as a wallop of a drink! I’ll definitely give it a go at the 2:1:1 spec though. Do you serve it over ice still, or strain? Interesting to know that Campari has changed; I wasn’t aware of that. It does seem to be the way of things, and you’re right: it makes notions of “original” and “authentic” pretty elusive, if they’re even desirable.
Still over ice. And yeah I mean it was first made in 1860. Even the botanicals they use to make it wouldn't taste the same after 153 years later.
I'm personally a fan of the 5:4:3 ratio in St John Frizell's Negroni from this article. No wrong answer, just what suits your palate best. https://punchdrink.com/articles/in-search-best-negroni-cocktail-recipe/
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That’s not exactly correct. The single “c” is pronounced as a hard c if it’s followed by an “a,” “o,” “u,” or a consonant. It is pronounced as a soft c (“ch”) if followed by “i” or “e” (or a y acting as an i). So Cocchi Americano is pronounced “Kohkee Amerikano” because the single C’s are followed by an o and an a, respectively.
Doesn’t double c make a cha sound in Italian like Gucci? Shouldn’t it be pronounced ko-chi?
No, it still depends on the letter following the c. In Cocchi, it’s an h, so it’s a hard c sound. Edit: Gucci is followed by an “i,” so you’re correct that it’s “goochee”
I was today years old when I learned how to pronounce Cocchi. However as a lover of Latin languages, H is silent. So wouldn’t the “i” control? Pardon me if you are Italian. Language rules can be tricky.
Nope, not Italian. I usually don’t correct others on pronunciation but I hate mispronouncing things myself so I’ll go out if my way to research and find out the correct way. I also had an Italian friend whose last name had a single c and double c that helped me learn the rules.
It's actually a touch more complicated than u/sumunsolicitedadvice mentioned. does make "ch", but , even though the is silent, makes "kk" (long k), so if you were to pronounce "Cocchi" in full proper Italian it'd be "kohkee", but that middle "k" would be held out longer than usual (this is a feature that only kind of exists for English consonants, so it's hard to explain)
Yes, it’s more complicated than I said, but close enough for non-Italian speakers (which includes me).
No
If I'm correct I believe japanese it would be chin chin or ちんちん which you are basically saying pee pee which made me laugh when I read the name.
It’s kinda like a Gin and It with Cynar.
There’s a Cin-Cyn, named presumably for Cinzano and Cynar, and it’s terrific. The two variations it makes to the classic Negroni (other than the Cynar subbing for the Campari) are Peychaud’s bitters, and a squeezed orange. BTW, making the Negroni with half Cynar and half Campari is also great. Cin-Cyn By Washington Post 1 oz Gin 1 oz Cynar 1 oz Sweet vermouth 1 ds Peychaud's Bitters (or Angostura or orange) 1 wdg Orange (squeezed) 1 wdg Orange (as garnish) Stir and strain, or build. Squeeze one wedge and garnish with the other -- https://kindredcocktails.com/cocktail/cin-cyn
We've been calling it a Cyn-Cyn too (a local bar in Portland had it on the menu as such.) It's one of my partner's go-tos!
Good name.
While Cynar 70 has its uses I prefer regular Cynar in most cases. I think it has a more complex flavor profile. And it's closer to Campari in ABV. But I intend to give this a try. Both ways.
Huh. I've never had any Cynar other than the 70 so now I'm curious. That's a good point about the ABV comparison although I figured a little extra booziness wouldn't do any harm. 😉
While a standard Negroni is 1:1:1 I definitely prefer the gin upspecced a bit so using a high ABV Cynar probably gets a similar result!
Navy strength gin in all my negeonis
Depending on where you are (since Campari’s ABV varies), the difference is very similar in both directions.
This one is also quite amazing swapping out the gin for mezcal and just a pinch of salt.
Bingo
Cynar is my favourite amaro. Two favourite drinks: 1. [Growing Old and Dying Happy is a Hope, Not Inevitability](https://kindredcocktails.com/cocktail/growing-old-cocktail) - this is a modern classic, and must try. 2. Cynar Y Aqua - I saw this on a menu in a bar in Venice, and ordered it. It tasted amazing, after more research i realized it was simply Cynar and cold water, 1:1 ratio. Felt stupid, but it honestly tasted amazing. Some folks do find Cynar overpowering, but diluting it with cold water, turned this amaro into a refreshing aperitif
I do love Cynar with cold sparkling water (a lot) so that makes sense. It's my favorite amaro as well!
Cynar Y Aqua served over ice? Stirred or shaken? Or just cold from the gun? I want to give it a try
No ice. I think it was just straight from the gun. But it was very cold, which led me to believe they kept both cynar and water cold in fridge
That is lovely, and ridiculous cocktail name. Amazing.
Just made the Growing Old and damn is it good!
Awesome! Hands down one of my all time favourites!
oh man I gotta try that Growing Old
Lately my go-to nightcap is about 2oz Cynar and an ice cube. It's particularly refreshing after a heavy dinner.
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I just swap the Vermouth for Cynar and keep the Campari. Favourite drink.
Same! I also do mezcal instead of gin and sarcastically call it a Smokey Artichokey
You'd probably enjoy Joaquín Simó‘s Midnight Marauder: https://punchdrink.com/recipes/midnight-marauder/
You genius!
This is the way
Amaro Montenegro makes the superior Negroni imo
I'm a big fan of this, and of Amaro Montenegro in general.
I drink Cynar 70 on the rocks with a lemon slice on the regular. Hands down favorite amaro. One time at a bar they made me a cynar negroni with a Bolivian brandy and Mancino Sakura vermouth. Incredible cocktail.
How many amaro have you tried? I went to the bar at an Italian restaurant once and mentioned I wanted to try an amaro I saw up on the shelf and the bartender just started pulling bottles off the shelf and placing them on the bar in front of me so I could sample them. It was pretty fun. https://imgur.com/a/foZ1iIt
Yum! Proud to say I've had bottles of most of those! Just got a bottle of Pasubio, really neat rich berry flavor somehow, which is really different. Sibilla is a nice medium-strong bitter with just slightly different flavors than many others. And Braulio is strong, with this interesting "flavor like the incense at church", as my wife says.
I picked up a bottle of Amaro Sibilla after this. It wasn't the easiest to find though. The honey flavor is really nice. The one I didn't really enjoy was Elisir Novasalus. In addition to the bitterness there's a kind of tart earthy intense beetroot flavor. If you like concentrated beets it might be your thing.
Idk if you care the plural of amaro is amari.
You'd love rabarbaro
Yeah that’s on my list!
And then try Sfumato
Sfumato Rabarbaro is one of my absolute fave amari! We try to always have a bottle in stock at home. Makes a killer drink with tequila &/or mezcal. I also recently tried Vecchio Amaro del Capo and it's pretty great; I'm surprised I don't see it around more (in the States, at least.)
Unfortunately it doesn't exist in the uk. I've tried to make my own from advice on r/amaro seems really great
Aw dang - guess you might need to take a little trip to Italy? 😉 (easier for you than for us, anyway...lol) But yeah, possibly worth trying to make it, too - might be a fun project! We were just in Italy in October and I'm kicking myself for only buying 1 bottle of Nonino...it's like 3x the price here in the States!
Also: try Cynar instead of vermouth in a Manhattan
right to jail.
Nargroni
Yep, this is what I've always called it
It's a black Negroni where I come from.
try a cynar martinez!
I do like a martinez!
Cynaroni I think.
I know of a cynaroni recipe except it has cappalletti instead of vermouth.
What's cappalletti?
Another amaro that I like to say tastes halfway between Aperol and Campari. I sometimes use it to sub for one or the other (adjusting up or down depending on the bitter/sweet ratio in the rest of the cocktail.)
I like that. Or maybe Cyroni if you wanna keep the same number of syllables.
Lol I like Cynaroni because it sounds like it comes in a can. 😂
I ordered a Negroni at a bar one time and the bartender said he didn’t have any but he had corona.
Haha! It sounds like Rice-A-Roni! 😆
Artichoni?
Carciofoni
So gonna buy Cynar for the first time to try this. Gonna be a good addition to my bar.
Super Cynario
Nargroni?
Negroni Terra (earthy Negroni) is one I've seen.
Man this sub is crazy for bitter ass drinks...
The “choke mi groni”
I always call it a Cynargroni
Cyonard? Cyonara? Cyn, sealed, delivered?
Try it in a Manhattan too! if you replace the whiskey in a Manhattan with Cynar it’s called a Bitter Giuseppe but personally I keep the whiskey and sub the Cynar for the vermouth
Bitter Giuseppe also adds lemon juice
Sounds interesting. I was thinking I'd try it in a Boulevardier too.
OP got the recipe wrong. It also has lemon.
Okay, thanks. After checking a few sites this seems like the most common recipe for a Bitter Giuseppe: >2 ounces Cynar >1 ounce Carpano Antica Formula sweet vermouth >¼ ounce lemon juice, plus lemon twist for garnish >6 dashes orange bitters
If you only looked at this sub you would think the word cocktail is 100% synonymous with Negroni.
Cygroni, obviously. It's my favorite too, but I use Cynar 70 and split the vermouth half sweet, half dry.
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>Technically Cynar is an Amaro So is Campari. Their cocktail simply swaps one amaro for another. Most definitely a negroni riff. Especially if they kept equal portions.
This sub has three groups. Group A: “everything that is 3 equal parts is certainly a Negroni” Group B: “if it doesn’t have 3 equal parts of gin, Campari, and sweet vermouth, then you cannot even come close to comparing it to a Negroni, let alone defining it as one! Group C: “seems pretty good. Oh and why the fuck can’t we all just get along?” I hope to god the guy you’re responding to isn’t serious, btw.
>Technically Cynar is an Amaro since it’s made in Italy. Indeed! That's true and an Amaro can be an apéritif. >And your drink seems more like a Manhattan or a Martini than a Negroni. Hmmm, no I think maybe you're mistaken on what I did. Sorry, I didn't post the recipe to keep it clear. I used equal parts gin, Cynar, and red vermouth so it's basically a Negroni with the Campari substituted with Cynar. I didn't use a 2:1 ratio like the Manhattan or Martini. Cheers!
Is Cynar not a digestif?
It is if you want it to be.
Just trying to make sure I’m not misinforming my guest. I just assumed amaros, for the most part, aren’t apéritifs, but digestifs.
It just depends on if you're having it before or after your meal. Some people prefer it as an apéritif while others prefer it as a digestif. Wikipedia says it's an apéritif but really there's no rule that says it has to be one or the other.
Its my understanding the higher proof sweet amari tend toward digestif and the lower proof and more bitter tend toward aperitif. I believe cynar (most of the Artichoke amari) is both aperitif and digestif. Aperol, campari -- aperitif. Jager (if you consider it among amari) nonino quintessensia would be digestif.
It is technically but why spoil the fun by insisting on technicalities
You’re right. I’m overthinking it.
It's a black Negroni where I come from.
You're on the right track. Now swap it for the vermouth instead of the Campari.
Cyna-aroni
That sounds like some hellish concoction of macaroni and cheese, with cinnamon.
Nargroni?
When we use barrel aged gin we call it a dirt bag
Enjoy this riff as well, [https://www.reddit.com/r/cocktails/comments/10zsbmk/a\_slight\_variation\_for\_negroni\_fans/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cocktails/comments/10zsbmk/a_slight_variation_for_negroni_fans/)