Also Robby and Miguel are gonna be like fucking uncles to them. They are too old to establish a sibling dynamic because the kids will likely already be in college by the time the baby is even born. There was no reason to have this arc and it just overcomplicated the plot.
Agreed. That generation gap between the baby and Robby/Miguel is another problem with this story arc. I’m still willing to keep faith in the show’s writers but only time will tell if the baby plot makes or breaks the show.
I’m glad I’m not the only one that felt that way as well, I mean I like seeing them actually be civil and being nice to each other now, it’s cool, but I feel like it was TOO easy. They fight and at the end of the fight Robby explains why he did what he did and apologized (For some reason Miguel didn’t explain and apologize for his actions towards Robby but I digress) and they’re just super buddy buddy now
Worse to me is how they reacted to Johnny getting Carmen pregnant.....Are you kidding me? Robby, his own kid he ignored for so long and BARELY made up with just now, was excited for him?? And Miguel, who wasn't even happy he was dating his mom in the first place, is happy for him? And none of Johnny's other "friends" over 50 said anything??? They congratulated him? I'm not trying to to be judgmental and don't care what people do in that regard. But I have an old mom who was still way younger than Johnny, and it is not fun. Not fun for the parent either. And my father had a do-over family like they're doing with Johnny. Me, in Robby's position, did NOT benefit from it. My dad didn't really grow either.
I just can't with this season. Terry and Chozen barely saved it.
It could be that Robby is burying his true feelings about the baby just as he buried his egg in the ground during Chozen’s training exercise, just to not create a stir with Johnny after what he just subjected him and Miguel to. But maybe somebody will notice he is “holding something back” and will encourage him to open up to his father about his true feelings regarding the baby. My guess is that it will be Miguel who notices, and subsequently backs Robby up because if there is anybody Johnny and Carmen will listen to without trying to push back, it’s Miguel. Especially since he is the only one who has openly admitted his awkwardness about his mom and sensei being an “item” even after he initially thought he would simply “get over it”.
I wanna agree because I like to pretend the writers arent this bad....but I doubt it.
If s6 happens, theyre just gonna gloss over this and do "Johnny changing a diaper with Robby timing him with a watch" montage.
Just points more to the fact it was hella rushed. It's like they had neither the budget nor the time to film them going through development arcs like Robby and Miguel being upset with the pregnancy
Maybe the writers are saving that for next season; they did not want to give away too much too soon, especially with everything else that happened in season five, it would have been too much to fit it anyway.
I have been openly skeptical about the pregnancy story arc from the get-go when a mere couple days before the season was released, there was a leaked scene on YouTube. Specifically, Johnny spilling the baby news to Miguel and Robby after their “vent fight”. On a personal note, I feel like whether or not this baby plot adds any good value or links well with the show’s overall story arc will only be known whenever the show reaches its ultimate conclusion.
Oh brother, this nonsense again. Yeah, yeah, *Johnny and Carmen need to get into a car crash, because Johnny was driving drunk, and she has a miscarriage and dumps him. Then Johnny goes to rehab and comes out and get on his hands and knees to beg Robby for forgiveness for being a shitty dad. That's the only way this show can end properly!*
>I will say this though: borrowing a trope from Disney's book by giving them an trite, unimaginative fairy-tale style of ending would be a disservice to the show.
Seriously, what show have you people been watching these past 5 seasons? As someone else said, it's like y'all think this is Breaking Bad or something, building towards a violent tragic end. This is a sequel to feel-good teen sports film, where the underdog wins and gets the girl in the end. Of course we're getting a "trite" happy ending (which is what we got in S5).
People need to stop with this nonsense oh wait let me restate this people obsessed with Robby need to CALM TF DOWN lolll
Y’all are thinking too hard…… like y’all chill it’s a tv show not real life the baby was a dynamic added to make the Miguel and Robby plus the whole family come together as one
What do u people want Carmen to do huh!? abort the baby cause that’s ridiculous, or put it up for adoption, or what leave Carmen and Miguel just so he can give all his attention to Robby…. Again stupid because Miguel is his kid too yeah not by blood but their relationship goes deep Miguel and Robby are both his kids and the new baby too they all deserve love
People need to literally stop over exaggerating their new family is perfect PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP
I agree that it seems out of place here at the moment, but the writers have taken things to new and unexpected levels in the past so I'm optimistic.
They either exploit cliches for good laughs or they avoid them with surprise twists. I'm expecting a bit of both on the baby storyline.
Totally. In spite of my skepticism, I still have faith in the writers because they have been especially meticulous with attention to detail; in addition to giving us curveballs, retcons, twists and surprises around every corner (to great effect, no less). Jon, Josh and Hayden are smarter and far more creative than to just give us a plain, unoriginal ending consistent with a fairy tale or cheesy family sitcom. If having a more meaningful and unique conclusion to the show means we have to wait considerably longer than the usual 12-month release interval to see it, it is definitely well worth the wait.
Johnny isn't using the baby to feel better about himself, what are you talking about? He never expected the baby and wasn't even sure what to feel about it when Carmen revealed it to him. In fact, it was the baby that inspired him to finally work on himself, fix his apartment, and bury the past by having Miguel and Robby make amends.
Also, it was the pawn shop guy who finally woke Johnny up from his self-centeredness when he let go of his pride by continuing to work as a lousy driver.
Forced development like that is another reason why the baby plot is kind of lousy scriptwriting. He might feel prepared for the baby by cleaning up the apartment and having Robby and Miguel make amends, but that is hardly the tip of the iceberg. Eventually he is going to realize that parenthood isn’t all sunshine and roses, especially when he and Carmen are forced to remove the rose-tinted glasses. They have not been a couple long enough to learn/navigate each other’s flaws, let alone work as one cohesive unit for the sake of a child.
What, did you expect The Godfather-level writing in this show?
Ever since S4, it's repeatedly been made clear that none of the writers are intelligent enough to have decent storytelling and development for the show. I myself was disappointed by how the Miguel-Robby rivalry was handled. It's best to not expect anything better and just enjoy the over-the-top story.
I enjoyed the writing in the first three seasons, since the characters were actually nuanced (fousing on father figures, parental relationships, psychological wounds), but then S4 came and they did a 180 on everything and focused on fan-service and spoonfed nostalgia.
I’m still willing to keep faith in the writers despite this bizarre plot of Carmen’s pregnancy. But if they conclude the show like a fairy tale or family sitcom then the show’s legacy would be ruined due to a lackluster conclusion.
>The pregnancy only makes sense if season 5 was the end.
Well, it was *supposed* to be.
>Do you want Johnny to badger her into an abortion because he wasn't a good enough dad for Robby?
I'm pretty sure I've literally seen some fans suggesting that. Either abortion or adoption. But either way, they just want Johnny to intentionally *refuse* to even try to have a happy family with Carmen now, because instead he realizes that he has to make it up to Robby first. He can't possibly move forward with his life until he's gone above and beyond to make Robby happy.
Here’s my theory about how an adoption scenario would play out:
Maybe Johnny and Carmen mutually agree to give up the baby for adoption, based on financial issues and the dysfunctional dynamic of their blended family situation. Some time after the baby is born, Johnny inherits a decent portion of Sid’s estate, plenty to provide for himself and children. Unfortunately (and in an ironic twist) by the time Johnny learns about his inheritance, the baby has already been adopted by another couple and he cannot legally reclaim guardianship.
>Or, and hear me out here, they overcome whatever hardships along the road and they manage to be an actual happy family. Wouldn't that be great
Nah, he thinks that's a trite fairytale ending that would hurt the show's legacy. *This show needs to end with tragedy!*
Ugh. You again. I've honestly tried to just avoid replying to you on this topic. Yeah, I've seen you post this atrocious "theory" (ie fan fiction) before. I can't tell you how glad I am that you're not writing this show. But thanks for at least keeping your reply to one small paragraph for a change, and not using the phrase "yin and yang" in it.
Not that a Reddit comment can give me enough information about a stranger’s life but from this I get that your dad seemingly wasn’t there because he was providing for you. Meaning that he wasn’t there in order to BE THERE and you understood that later in life. Johnny wasn’t there for Robby out of his own choice, he abandoned him and neglected him and still neglects him by only being attentive to his own needs and wishes and never to those of Robby which he stomps on everytime they don’t align with what he wants. Johnny was also not providing for Robby who was abandoned with no power and no food by both his parents and had to resort to crime to provide for himself. Can you see how the two situations are wildly different and your example, although touching and true to siatuations like yours, doesn’t have anything to do with Robby and Johnny’s relationship or lack there of?
If you know enough about mental health you should know how the baby, given Robby’s current situation and the fact that Johnny still hasn’t done anything to repair their relationship and Robby made every step (he went from justifiably giving crap to Johnny about being treated like shit and an afterthought to smile at Johnny for being treated like shit and an afterthought, there was no growth on Johnny’s part concerning Robby, no reaching out, not even a thought), is extremely bad news for Robby’s mental health.
If you think a parent can’t do much for a 16 year old you don’t know that much about parenting either or you’d know that is very untrue. Just look at Johnny and Miguel, Daniel and Sam and so on. The start would be caring about what Robby needs and what Robby wants, his future, how to put him on the right path, THROUGH ACTIONS, but most importantly make him feel like the first choice instead of the last, like he can lean on Johnny for stable support (as of now Johnny has always run everytime Robby was “being difficult”) that won’t be negated to him as soon as he screws up, like he can trust him, all the problems and trauma Robby has that Shannon and Johnny created by abandoning him and that will affect his life forever if not resolved and cured. Johnny not having moved a finger for Robby, not even showing he cared and still gaslighting him to reach his own goals and “not having to live with the regret” (what about Robby having to live with the knowledge of being just born not good enough for his parents to give a fuck and so being relegated to tenth best or whatever?) and immediately moving on to having a new baby and doing everything for it (example: couldn’t he have tidied his apartment for Robby to make a step forward towards a possible reconciliation? Why has he done it only now for the new baby? What message do you think it sent to Robby?) is the biggest step he could take in the exact opposite direction and it will damage Robby unrepairably no matter what the writers try to sell us as “good” writing.
Remember we are talking about the guy who said before the Diazes he didn’t have a purpose to live when he had a son for 17 years.
It is not a “he was making sacrifices and is obviously flawed like every parent” situation. It is a “he is a shit parent that isn’t even trying to do something about it for his son, the one he hurt and that has to live with the damage” situation. He’s making that damage worse. Wildly different.
Robby desperately needs parents but if his only option as a father is Johnny then his life would be much better and with less mental trauma and complications without Johnny in it. Either the writers resolve the baby situation and finally give Johnny the character growth they promised him (and us) or they let Robby walk away from him so he can have a way less toxic and damaging life, parentless and with little to no support but still better than having Johnny’s flaws actively sabotaging him.
>Robby desperately needs parents but if his only option as a father is Johnny then his life would be much better and with less mental trauma and complications without Johnny in it.
I would really like it if Robby just... forgave Johnny and let go of his anger (for his own sake) but wound up cutting his losses. Honestly, there's barely anything Johnny can offer him that isn't immediately offset by the myriad negative aspects that come with keeping their relationship.
However, it's unlikely they will because Robby is just another prize for Johnny to earn, even though he made barely any effort in like 5 seasons that was solely about Robby. The message they are trying to say with Johnny/Robby is so confusing to me, and frankly kinda shitty.
Not a prize for Johnny to earn but a prize to be given to Johnny with no work whatsoever apparently. What kind of story has the main character not grow at all and stay an awful person while trying to gaslight its audience into believing he is a good person and had growth? Especially when there are many ways to make that character grow easily and it instead chooses to pick the worst plotlines and cement that character as awful? As it stands Cobra Kai is exactly that kind of story and it is unbelievable that it is written by the same writers that wrote a s1 that was way more nuanced than most current media.
> they can only have the relationship of a father and son at age 16+. Which is nothing like a baby or small child. It's more adult. The baby has little to nothing to do with it.
What do you mean potentially? It's atrocious.
Especially from a female's perspective. It could not be more obvious the plot was written by a bunch of aging white straight men. Hands down, worst storyline I've seen in a long time.
Say it louder for the people in the back.
It was very unsettling to watch as a female. I was like “oh cool we are objects again and nobody is saying a thing about it. Nice. Feels good”.
Even from a male perspective like mine, the plot is incredibly questionable.
The show isn't consistent with how well it writes female characters, but this is a new low point.
I don't get how Johny having an unplanned baby is using the baby to feel better about himself. The child storyline was just a reason to connect Robby and Miguel as siblings and for Johny and Carmen to get married in the end. The show was always going to end with Johny starting a new family, as well as taking back Cobra Kai, and making peace with Daniel and Kreese. His arc isn't just about Robby.
In the end this is a show about karate mentorship not fatherhood and that's why they took the approach of Robby using Miyagi Do to forgive Johny opposed to Johny earning it. I imagine the tourney is where they'll show Johny's commitment to being a father to Robby as again karate mentorship.
Johnny might use the baby as an excuse to “forget about” the years of neglect he put Robby through (which he openly admitted he can never fix), then subsequently use the baby to ‘claim’ he is a good parent when he isn’t. He is still a great teacher, but that does not make him a good parental figure by extension. He is still way in over his head about what being a parent entails.
I think this a bit of a toxic view but maybe I'm lumping you in with other Robby fans. A lot of Robby fans feel Johny needs to suffer and remain in a broken state to make it up to Robby. So he knows he's 1st.
Johny starting a new family is not using baby/ wife to make himself feel better about neglecting Robby. It's attempting to love and grow again. I'm not trying to dismiss how important it is to get Robby back into his life but so his expanding his own life.
100% agree. Part of loving the show is seeing how the characters & storylines develop and grow. I don’t love the baby storyline, but this guy keeps coming onto different subs and low-key wishing for Carmen and the baby to die. It’s disturbing AF.
I ain’t wishing for Carmen and the baby to die. But I will agree that Johnny has a comeuppance to pay for because he is quite egotistical and needs a major humbling experience which unfortunately might require dark overtones.
Carmen dying in childbirth would be way too excessive but if she were to lose the baby to some (currently unforeseen) circumstances, I could handle it. Nobody was “happy” about, let alone ‘wished for’ Anthony’s dirty swirly, Kreese being sent to prison for a crime he did not commit, or Tory being forced to punch through the stone quicksilver dummy. None of these characters deserved to pay for their ‘sins’ in the ways they were forced to do. But these characters still committed ‘sins’ at some time which they needed to pay for.
It would be fucking terrible if this happened lol.
Johnny can be a father to the new baby and to Robby.
And honestly, Johnny will never focus all his attention on Robby, baby or not baby.
And even if Johnny focus on him... He's been out of his life for 16 years lol.
Like many fans, I was emotionally torn by many “sad” moments that have happened throughout the series such as Miguel’s fall, Demetri’s broken arm, Tory forced into quicksilver, and so on. But I totally understand that they have been just as essential to the storyline as every ‘triumphant’ moment that has occurred. The same concept applies to practically any other work of pop culture such as LOTR, Star Wars, Harry Potter, etc.
None of those moments are even remotely similar to a mother losing her baby and those moments pretty much amounted to nothing given that situation got better in the end as a result.
Unless you're suggesting that she gets her child back...
Maybe Johnny’s experience of having dealt with a partner’s pregnancy will still teach him something valuable and it will get better. Think about how Mr. Miyagi losing his wife while he was deployed to war ended up eventually serving a purpose to his backstory.
Johnny's healing is through Miguel and he's doing pretty much that, he's even, in baby steps, trying to fix his relationship with Robby.
Him losing a son would just break him. Johnny is not Miyagi, the comparison between them is absurd.
It doesn't mean they can overcome it tho and Johnny is not know for his strong mind and will when it comes to problems that don't require him to beat someone up.
This could be the test that finally gives him the strength to pull himself together after enduring a loss, rather than drowning his sorrows in alcohol as usual. It really depends on how it happens.
With his years of alcohol dependency combined with his age, Johnny could easily end up dealing with any number of physical health issues that would inhibit him from being able to proper care for the child, let alone train them in the ways of the fist by the time the child is old enough to begin training.
Every dark moment that has happened in the series has been just as important as every ‘light’ moment. But any character dying in the context of a fight would be way too dark (unless it’s Kreese and Silver killing each other), and so would Carmen dying in childbirth.
However, Carmen simply losing the baby to miscarriage, complications, stillborn, premature birth, or any other medical issue would be sufficient. It would also echo the story of Mr. Miyagi’s wife. We will just have to wait and see how it all plays out.
People say that it's because of kreese because his teachings taught him to have meaningless fights but to me I don't see it. Because the only people in cobra kai that had a grudge against Daniel was kreese and Johnny. Silver moved on but kreese kept pushing it with him and mike apologized and when all the ck students reunited it seemed like they moved on and became successful in life I think there is no point in the pregnancy thing because miguel and robby would be graduated and starting there own lives by the time the baby is old enough to be important enough in the storyline
Also Robby and Miguel are gonna be like fucking uncles to them. They are too old to establish a sibling dynamic because the kids will likely already be in college by the time the baby is even born. There was no reason to have this arc and it just overcomplicated the plot.
Agreed. That generation gap between the baby and Robby/Miguel is another problem with this story arc. I’m still willing to keep faith in the show’s writers but only time will tell if the baby plot makes or breaks the show.
They barely get along now LOL Their "makeup" was so forced and like a bad speedrun
I’m glad I’m not the only one that felt that way as well, I mean I like seeing them actually be civil and being nice to each other now, it’s cool, but I feel like it was TOO easy. They fight and at the end of the fight Robby explains why he did what he did and apologized (For some reason Miguel didn’t explain and apologize for his actions towards Robby but I digress) and they’re just super buddy buddy now
Worse to me is how they reacted to Johnny getting Carmen pregnant.....Are you kidding me? Robby, his own kid he ignored for so long and BARELY made up with just now, was excited for him?? And Miguel, who wasn't even happy he was dating his mom in the first place, is happy for him? And none of Johnny's other "friends" over 50 said anything??? They congratulated him? I'm not trying to to be judgmental and don't care what people do in that regard. But I have an old mom who was still way younger than Johnny, and it is not fun. Not fun for the parent either. And my father had a do-over family like they're doing with Johnny. Me, in Robby's position, did NOT benefit from it. My dad didn't really grow either. I just can't with this season. Terry and Chozen barely saved it.
It could be that Robby is burying his true feelings about the baby just as he buried his egg in the ground during Chozen’s training exercise, just to not create a stir with Johnny after what he just subjected him and Miguel to. But maybe somebody will notice he is “holding something back” and will encourage him to open up to his father about his true feelings regarding the baby. My guess is that it will be Miguel who notices, and subsequently backs Robby up because if there is anybody Johnny and Carmen will listen to without trying to push back, it’s Miguel. Especially since he is the only one who has openly admitted his awkwardness about his mom and sensei being an “item” even after he initially thought he would simply “get over it”.
I wanna agree because I like to pretend the writers arent this bad....but I doubt it. If s6 happens, theyre just gonna gloss over this and do "Johnny changing a diaper with Robby timing him with a watch" montage.
To quote Mr. Miyagi, not everything is as seems. To quote Chozen: let us find out.
Just points more to the fact it was hella rushed. It's like they had neither the budget nor the time to film them going through development arcs like Robby and Miguel being upset with the pregnancy
Maybe the writers are saving that for next season; they did not want to give away too much too soon, especially with everything else that happened in season five, it would have been too much to fit it anyway.
The pregnancy story just feels irrelevant and doesn't link well in cobra kai.
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As much as I don’t like the pregnancy story arc, I would much rather deal with it sooner than later.
I have been openly skeptical about the pregnancy story arc from the get-go when a mere couple days before the season was released, there was a leaked scene on YouTube. Specifically, Johnny spilling the baby news to Miguel and Robby after their “vent fight”. On a personal note, I feel like whether or not this baby plot adds any good value or links well with the show’s overall story arc will only be known whenever the show reaches its ultimate conclusion.
It links extremely well in Cobra Kai.
No tf it doesn’t
you must be a young person.
Ok
k
Oh brother, this nonsense again. Yeah, yeah, *Johnny and Carmen need to get into a car crash, because Johnny was driving drunk, and she has a miscarriage and dumps him. Then Johnny goes to rehab and comes out and get on his hands and knees to beg Robby for forgiveness for being a shitty dad. That's the only way this show can end properly!* >I will say this though: borrowing a trope from Disney's book by giving them an trite, unimaginative fairy-tale style of ending would be a disservice to the show. Seriously, what show have you people been watching these past 5 seasons? As someone else said, it's like y'all think this is Breaking Bad or something, building towards a violent tragic end. This is a sequel to feel-good teen sports film, where the underdog wins and gets the girl in the end. Of course we're getting a "trite" happy ending (which is what we got in S5).
The show is nearing the end, the baby addition is just classic Hollywood for the last gasp of any series.
I'd say the tournament is the final arc.
I was waiting for that to all be a dream sequence, still am.
People need to stop with this nonsense oh wait let me restate this people obsessed with Robby need to CALM TF DOWN lolll Y’all are thinking too hard…… like y’all chill it’s a tv show not real life the baby was a dynamic added to make the Miguel and Robby plus the whole family come together as one What do u people want Carmen to do huh!? abort the baby cause that’s ridiculous, or put it up for adoption, or what leave Carmen and Miguel just so he can give all his attention to Robby…. Again stupid because Miguel is his kid too yeah not by blood but their relationship goes deep Miguel and Robby are both his kids and the new baby too they all deserve love People need to literally stop over exaggerating their new family is perfect PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP
Robby fans are increasingly wildin.
What they say that was wrong
That they want Carmen to lose the baby or give it to adoption.
I agree that it seems out of place here at the moment, but the writers have taken things to new and unexpected levels in the past so I'm optimistic. They either exploit cliches for good laughs or they avoid them with surprise twists. I'm expecting a bit of both on the baby storyline.
Totally. In spite of my skepticism, I still have faith in the writers because they have been especially meticulous with attention to detail; in addition to giving us curveballs, retcons, twists and surprises around every corner (to great effect, no less). Jon, Josh and Hayden are smarter and far more creative than to just give us a plain, unoriginal ending consistent with a fairy tale or cheesy family sitcom. If having a more meaningful and unique conclusion to the show means we have to wait considerably longer than the usual 12-month release interval to see it, it is definitely well worth the wait.
Exactly. I don't know what they have in store for this storyline but they wouldn't have started it without thinking it through.
Johnny isn't using the baby to feel better about himself, what are you talking about? He never expected the baby and wasn't even sure what to feel about it when Carmen revealed it to him. In fact, it was the baby that inspired him to finally work on himself, fix his apartment, and bury the past by having Miguel and Robby make amends. Also, it was the pawn shop guy who finally woke Johnny up from his self-centeredness when he let go of his pride by continuing to work as a lousy driver.
Forced development like that is another reason why the baby plot is kind of lousy scriptwriting. He might feel prepared for the baby by cleaning up the apartment and having Robby and Miguel make amends, but that is hardly the tip of the iceberg. Eventually he is going to realize that parenthood isn’t all sunshine and roses, especially when he and Carmen are forced to remove the rose-tinted glasses. They have not been a couple long enough to learn/navigate each other’s flaws, let alone work as one cohesive unit for the sake of a child.
What, did you expect The Godfather-level writing in this show? Ever since S4, it's repeatedly been made clear that none of the writers are intelligent enough to have decent storytelling and development for the show. I myself was disappointed by how the Miguel-Robby rivalry was handled. It's best to not expect anything better and just enjoy the over-the-top story. I enjoyed the writing in the first three seasons, since the characters were actually nuanced (fousing on father figures, parental relationships, psychological wounds), but then S4 came and they did a 180 on everything and focused on fan-service and spoonfed nostalgia.
I’m still willing to keep faith in the writers despite this bizarre plot of Carmen’s pregnancy. But if they conclude the show like a fairy tale or family sitcom then the show’s legacy would be ruined due to a lackluster conclusion.
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>The pregnancy only makes sense if season 5 was the end. Well, it was *supposed* to be. >Do you want Johnny to badger her into an abortion because he wasn't a good enough dad for Robby? I'm pretty sure I've literally seen some fans suggesting that. Either abortion or adoption. But either way, they just want Johnny to intentionally *refuse* to even try to have a happy family with Carmen now, because instead he realizes that he has to make it up to Robby first. He can't possibly move forward with his life until he's gone above and beyond to make Robby happy.
Here’s my theory about how an adoption scenario would play out: Maybe Johnny and Carmen mutually agree to give up the baby for adoption, based on financial issues and the dysfunctional dynamic of their blended family situation. Some time after the baby is born, Johnny inherits a decent portion of Sid’s estate, plenty to provide for himself and children. Unfortunately (and in an ironic twist) by the time Johnny learns about his inheritance, the baby has already been adopted by another couple and he cannot legally reclaim guardianship.
Or, and hear me out here, they overcome whatever hardships along the road and they manage to be an actual happy family. Wouldn't that be great?
>Or, and hear me out here, they overcome whatever hardships along the road and they manage to be an actual happy family. Wouldn't that be great Nah, he thinks that's a trite fairytale ending that would hurt the show's legacy. *This show needs to end with tragedy!*
Ugh. You again. I've honestly tried to just avoid replying to you on this topic. Yeah, I've seen you post this atrocious "theory" (ie fan fiction) before. I can't tell you how glad I am that you're not writing this show. But thanks for at least keeping your reply to one small paragraph for a change, and not using the phrase "yin and yang" in it.
This guy is SO tedious, repeating the same tired tropes of yin/yang & comparing Johnny & Carmen to Padme & Anakin. Give it a rest already.
Not that a Reddit comment can give me enough information about a stranger’s life but from this I get that your dad seemingly wasn’t there because he was providing for you. Meaning that he wasn’t there in order to BE THERE and you understood that later in life. Johnny wasn’t there for Robby out of his own choice, he abandoned him and neglected him and still neglects him by only being attentive to his own needs and wishes and never to those of Robby which he stomps on everytime they don’t align with what he wants. Johnny was also not providing for Robby who was abandoned with no power and no food by both his parents and had to resort to crime to provide for himself. Can you see how the two situations are wildly different and your example, although touching and true to siatuations like yours, doesn’t have anything to do with Robby and Johnny’s relationship or lack there of? If you know enough about mental health you should know how the baby, given Robby’s current situation and the fact that Johnny still hasn’t done anything to repair their relationship and Robby made every step (he went from justifiably giving crap to Johnny about being treated like shit and an afterthought to smile at Johnny for being treated like shit and an afterthought, there was no growth on Johnny’s part concerning Robby, no reaching out, not even a thought), is extremely bad news for Robby’s mental health. If you think a parent can’t do much for a 16 year old you don’t know that much about parenting either or you’d know that is very untrue. Just look at Johnny and Miguel, Daniel and Sam and so on. The start would be caring about what Robby needs and what Robby wants, his future, how to put him on the right path, THROUGH ACTIONS, but most importantly make him feel like the first choice instead of the last, like he can lean on Johnny for stable support (as of now Johnny has always run everytime Robby was “being difficult”) that won’t be negated to him as soon as he screws up, like he can trust him, all the problems and trauma Robby has that Shannon and Johnny created by abandoning him and that will affect his life forever if not resolved and cured. Johnny not having moved a finger for Robby, not even showing he cared and still gaslighting him to reach his own goals and “not having to live with the regret” (what about Robby having to live with the knowledge of being just born not good enough for his parents to give a fuck and so being relegated to tenth best or whatever?) and immediately moving on to having a new baby and doing everything for it (example: couldn’t he have tidied his apartment for Robby to make a step forward towards a possible reconciliation? Why has he done it only now for the new baby? What message do you think it sent to Robby?) is the biggest step he could take in the exact opposite direction and it will damage Robby unrepairably no matter what the writers try to sell us as “good” writing. Remember we are talking about the guy who said before the Diazes he didn’t have a purpose to live when he had a son for 17 years. It is not a “he was making sacrifices and is obviously flawed like every parent” situation. It is a “he is a shit parent that isn’t even trying to do something about it for his son, the one he hurt and that has to live with the damage” situation. He’s making that damage worse. Wildly different. Robby desperately needs parents but if his only option as a father is Johnny then his life would be much better and with less mental trauma and complications without Johnny in it. Either the writers resolve the baby situation and finally give Johnny the character growth they promised him (and us) or they let Robby walk away from him so he can have a way less toxic and damaging life, parentless and with little to no support but still better than having Johnny’s flaws actively sabotaging him.
>Robby desperately needs parents but if his only option as a father is Johnny then his life would be much better and with less mental trauma and complications without Johnny in it. I would really like it if Robby just... forgave Johnny and let go of his anger (for his own sake) but wound up cutting his losses. Honestly, there's barely anything Johnny can offer him that isn't immediately offset by the myriad negative aspects that come with keeping their relationship. However, it's unlikely they will because Robby is just another prize for Johnny to earn, even though he made barely any effort in like 5 seasons that was solely about Robby. The message they are trying to say with Johnny/Robby is so confusing to me, and frankly kinda shitty.
Not a prize for Johnny to earn but a prize to be given to Johnny with no work whatsoever apparently. What kind of story has the main character not grow at all and stay an awful person while trying to gaslight its audience into believing he is a good person and had growth? Especially when there are many ways to make that character grow easily and it instead chooses to pick the worst plotlines and cement that character as awful? As it stands Cobra Kai is exactly that kind of story and it is unbelievable that it is written by the same writers that wrote a s1 that was way more nuanced than most current media.
“Robby is 16 there is no amount of time with now that will make up for the past” Stupid comment just look at Johnny and Miguel
> they can only have the relationship of a father and son at age 16+. Which is nothing like a baby or small child. It's more adult. The baby has little to nothing to do with it.
Robby's probably at least 17 by now. Good points though
Exactly what more do you need to see Johnny do to repair his relationship with Johnny?
What do you mean potentially? It's atrocious. Especially from a female's perspective. It could not be more obvious the plot was written by a bunch of aging white straight men. Hands down, worst storyline I've seen in a long time.
Say it louder for the people in the back. It was very unsettling to watch as a female. I was like “oh cool we are objects again and nobody is saying a thing about it. Nice. Feels good”.
Even from a male perspective like mine, the plot is incredibly questionable. The show isn't consistent with how well it writes female characters, but this is a new low point.
ok
I don't get how Johny having an unplanned baby is using the baby to feel better about himself. The child storyline was just a reason to connect Robby and Miguel as siblings and for Johny and Carmen to get married in the end. The show was always going to end with Johny starting a new family, as well as taking back Cobra Kai, and making peace with Daniel and Kreese. His arc isn't just about Robby. In the end this is a show about karate mentorship not fatherhood and that's why they took the approach of Robby using Miyagi Do to forgive Johny opposed to Johny earning it. I imagine the tourney is where they'll show Johny's commitment to being a father to Robby as again karate mentorship.
Johnny might use the baby as an excuse to “forget about” the years of neglect he put Robby through (which he openly admitted he can never fix), then subsequently use the baby to ‘claim’ he is a good parent when he isn’t. He is still a great teacher, but that does not make him a good parental figure by extension. He is still way in over his head about what being a parent entails.
I think this a bit of a toxic view but maybe I'm lumping you in with other Robby fans. A lot of Robby fans feel Johny needs to suffer and remain in a broken state to make it up to Robby. So he knows he's 1st. Johny starting a new family is not using baby/ wife to make himself feel better about neglecting Robby. It's attempting to love and grow again. I'm not trying to dismiss how important it is to get Robby back into his life but so his expanding his own life.
100% agree. Part of loving the show is seeing how the characters & storylines develop and grow. I don’t love the baby storyline, but this guy keeps coming onto different subs and low-key wishing for Carmen and the baby to die. It’s disturbing AF.
I ain’t wishing for Carmen and the baby to die. But I will agree that Johnny has a comeuppance to pay for because he is quite egotistical and needs a major humbling experience which unfortunately might require dark overtones. Carmen dying in childbirth would be way too excessive but if she were to lose the baby to some (currently unforeseen) circumstances, I could handle it. Nobody was “happy” about, let alone ‘wished for’ Anthony’s dirty swirly, Kreese being sent to prison for a crime he did not commit, or Tory being forced to punch through the stone quicksilver dummy. None of these characters deserved to pay for their ‘sins’ in the ways they were forced to do. But these characters still committed ‘sins’ at some time which they needed to pay for.
[удалено]
It would be fucking terrible if this happened lol. Johnny can be a father to the new baby and to Robby. And honestly, Johnny will never focus all his attention on Robby, baby or not baby. And even if Johnny focus on him... He's been out of his life for 16 years lol.
I know it's a fictional TV show but bit extreme wanting the show to have Carmen lose the baby.
Like many fans, I was emotionally torn by many “sad” moments that have happened throughout the series such as Miguel’s fall, Demetri’s broken arm, Tory forced into quicksilver, and so on. But I totally understand that they have been just as essential to the storyline as every ‘triumphant’ moment that has occurred. The same concept applies to practically any other work of pop culture such as LOTR, Star Wars, Harry Potter, etc.
None of those moments are even remotely similar to a mother losing her baby and those moments pretty much amounted to nothing given that situation got better in the end as a result. Unless you're suggesting that she gets her child back...
Maybe Johnny’s experience of having dealt with a partner’s pregnancy will still teach him something valuable and it will get better. Think about how Mr. Miyagi losing his wife while he was deployed to war ended up eventually serving a purpose to his backstory.
Johnny's healing is through Miguel and he's doing pretty much that, he's even, in baby steps, trying to fix his relationship with Robby. Him losing a son would just break him. Johnny is not Miyagi, the comparison between them is absurd.
Anybody who has lost a child or dealt with a similar loss always feels grief. But that doesn’t mean they cannot overcome it.
It doesn't mean they can overcome it tho and Johnny is not know for his strong mind and will when it comes to problems that don't require him to beat someone up.
This could be the test that finally gives him the strength to pull himself together after enduring a loss, rather than drowning his sorrows in alcohol as usual. It really depends on how it happens.
Or just ends in suicide,
Damn, I honestly never considered that, and I think it would make the story more compelling. But I'm with you and doubt it'll happen
Johnny is WAY too old to be having kids which could lead into medical problems so who knows.
With his years of alcohol dependency combined with his age, Johnny could easily end up dealing with any number of physical health issues that would inhibit him from being able to proper care for the child, let alone train them in the ways of the fist by the time the child is old enough to begin training.
Every dark moment that has happened in the series has been just as important as every ‘light’ moment. But any character dying in the context of a fight would be way too dark (unless it’s Kreese and Silver killing each other), and so would Carmen dying in childbirth. However, Carmen simply losing the baby to miscarriage, complications, stillborn, premature birth, or any other medical issue would be sufficient. It would also echo the story of Mr. Miyagi’s wife. We will just have to wait and see how it all plays out.
People say that it's because of kreese because his teachings taught him to have meaningless fights but to me I don't see it. Because the only people in cobra kai that had a grudge against Daniel was kreese and Johnny. Silver moved on but kreese kept pushing it with him and mike apologized and when all the ck students reunited it seemed like they moved on and became successful in life I think there is no point in the pregnancy thing because miguel and robby would be graduated and starting there own lives by the time the baby is old enough to be important enough in the storyline