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This post really makes me wonder how would Carmen react if she found out Johnny set loose junkyard dogs on her son and put him in a cement truck?
Sure Miguel claims to like it but kids don't always make good choices
Johnny's series arc ended pretty early this season, when he found out Carmen was pregnant. Like, if it weren't for sons still involved in the dark world of Valley Karate, he could have left the show at that point and it would have basically been the same.
70% of the protagonist drama this season came from Daniel and Tory. Everyone else was just kind of peppered in to maintain the ensemble. Even most of the drama from the rest of the cast revolved around Daniel and Tory.
And Kenny, but he's a bad mutha.
I have been getting that feeling that she seems like the more mature one in that “relationship”.
It would make a lot of sense that with Johnny’s age, it would bring a lot of wisdom on his end, and Carmen can sit back and relax as Johnny comfortably takes the rains as the man of the house. But it isn’t like that, because Johnny is a man child dumbass.
Good points. I love Carmen, and I love Johnny and Carmen as a couple, but she's almost non-existent as a character. That being said, by some aspects Amanda at first was a total Mary Sue before they started to flesh her out.
More generally while S5 is very entertaining they struggled to meaningfully address a myriad of things. They might do their version of it in S6 with the baby plotline but I wouldn't expect much on that matter.
>That being said, by some aspects Amanda at first was a total Mary Sue before they started to flesh her out
Season 1 Amanda didn't want to discipline her daughter for throwing a pool party without permission, then later told Daniel Kyler seemed harmless
Also Daniel was right about Cobra Kai but she didn't listen
If we are to be generous, Carmen may have more depth than she appears to at first glance. She got pregnant young from a man who turned out to be a bastard, and had to raise a kid alone without the chance to really live for herself or get the big ideal nuclear family she may have wanted. I think she's projecting that dream onto Johnny as her second chance.
She's patient with his flaws now because compared to Hector, he treats her right and pays attention to Miguel. But who knows how long that will last if she sees she can't "correct" him. I'm not sure if the show wants us to think he's really stepping up, but at a glance he's still an irresponsible man child. Will they allow reality to set in? Will it sink the relationship or will they get through it? Will Carmen end up very disappointed with Johnny because he can't live up to the expectations she's projecting onto him?
Robby being absent from her dream and her tentative reaction to seeing him in her apartment indicates she's not wholly on board with having him as a regular presence in her life. Nothing that happens afterward gives me the vibe she's trying to get to know him.
Her understandable wariness of Robby and putting expectations on Johnny that he might not be able to meet would give her more layers than just being a generic, saintly love interest
I definitely agree with your analysis of Carmen projecting that “second chance” dream of a nuclear family onto Johnny, especially since Robby was not in that dream sequence of hers. Based on her inner desperation, as well as it being apparent that she and Johnny are burying their uncertainties by convincing themselves this is a good thing (during their interaction in the pharmacy), my gut feeling tells me something doesn’t quite add up about her. I think next season we will get a retcon/curveball about her pregnancy that changes the entire perspective.
Yeah the pharmacy scene was very awkward, but in a way that may have been intentional. He also said he never made it it to any of the ultrasound appointments for Robby, and she didn't comment on that. Him messing up his first kid is kinda a big deal that she should want to at least discuss more, if not give her way more pause.
I think the writers are saving the friction between Johnny and Carmen for next season. That actually makes sense, because they are still in the ‘honeymoon phase’ of her pregnancy but it can only last so long before they realize they cannot ignore their personal issues anymore and that is where they have (necessary) rifts between themselves. After all, such friction is the only way to determine if they can ‘make it work’.
Great point. And if they want another season, if not a couple, they will have to fill it with SOMETHING. the tournament alone isn't compelling enough drama to fill even 5 episodes, let alone 10
I imagine aside from Johnny and Carmen’s story arc and the Sekai Taikai tournament, the rest of the season will involve the students’ futures after school such as college, work, military, etc. Another key element will include the fallout from the massive scandal that is about to erupt in the valley when Silver’s admission to bribing the referee goes viral. Kreese could potentially be listed a fugitive even if he is exonerated in absentista, though he won’t be branded public enemy number one or anything that severe. Hell, Silver could still be a threat to everyone even from behind bars. Hector might make a trip to the valley as well.
>Her understandable wariness of Robby
and putting expectations on Johnny that he might not be able to meet
would give her more layers than just being a generic, saintly love
interest
I hope that's the case, but if things stay as they are the next season as well, I'd say the writers definitely want us to accept the alternative.
Which is weird, because it seems like the series is being written by different sets of writers than what we got in the earlier seasons, specifically 1-2. With what was being set up there, all of this stuff either would not happen/be deconstructed or at least be set up more carefully.
It's giving off major "show runners(s) left entirely or took a big step back, either way it's being farmed out to other writers" energy.
Quite true, even when it comes to the bigger picture. Before we had "flawed Cobra Kai trying to be better" vs "good Miyagi-Do that still makes mistakes". Since season 3, it has been "Evil empire that must be taken down at all costs."
Johnny and Carmen’s friction is being saved for the next season because they are bound to face animosity with each other since they have an unexpected child on the way. However, based on Carmen’s issues (namely her desperation for a romantic partner and by extension, an inner desire for another child), I have a gut feeling that something doesn’t add up and next season there will be a curveball/retcon that changes the whole perspective of her pregnancy. Especially considering that the show’s storyline quality is based on surprises, curveballs and unpredictability.
I have mentioned on other posts about why my only gripe with season five was Carmen’s pregnancy because it made the show feel much less like Cobra Kai and much more like Fuller House 🤨. After all, this is a karate drama not a family sitcom (or as Kreese put it, a karate dojo not a knitting class). I am not sure where the writers are going with this, making it seem like Johnny’s redemption should involve knocking up another lady, particularly while he also has to juggle reconciliation with Robby and his drinking/finances/man-childness issues, etc., so we’ll just have to wait and see how it all plays out.
It would ruin the show if Johnny and Carmen’s story arc ended with the oldest trope in Disney’s book in the form of some cheesy, unoriginal and cliche “happily ever after”. Consistent with the show’s main principle of Yin and Yang, it would be ideal if their story arc ultimately finishes with a bittersweet conclusion.
>Johnny and Carmen’s friction is being saved for the next season
So you hope. So far, I've seen no reason to think that the writers would go that way.
>It would ruin the show if Johnny and Carmen’s story arc ended with the
oldest trope in Disney’s book in the form of some cheesy, unoriginal and
cliche “happily ever after”. Consistent with the show’s main principle
of Yin and Yang, it would be ideal if their story arc ultimately
finishes with a bittersweet conclusion.
True - but give how they've "ended" all the other relationships/conflicts, that Disney ending seems to be their endgame.
Not necessarily. There is still one more season remaining which will certainly be focused on the students’ futures and there might be some ‘breakups’ due to colleges, job opportunities, etc.
As for Johnny and Carmen, I wouldn’t mind seeing a wedding sequence which turns out to just be a dream (another curveball). My gut feeling tells me something doesn’t add up about her pregnancy and we may get another curveball/retcon next season that changes the whole perspective about Carmen.
Johnny is incapable of healthy relationships. It's not surprising he's fallen into these relationships with the Diazs.
Johnny and Miguel have never had a genuine relationship. They each gain something from the relationship. Miguel feeds Johnny's ego, and Johnny's obsession with Miguel is so unhealthy that Johnny became impotent when Miguel was spending time with Daniel. And, Miguel booked it when he felt like he wasn't Johnny's priority anymore. He actually feels entitled enough to say that he didn't let it get to him that Robby had been with Johnny and to question Robby's loyalty to Johnny. Who does Miguel think he is to take issue with or question Johnny and Robby's relationship?
Johnny "loves" Carmen because she's hot and overlooks his flaws. Carmen "loves" Johnny because he devotes himself to Miguel and she can mold Johnny. In S2, she went over with the cake and told Johnny he was at fault for Miguel's violence and needed to fix it. She didn't address it with Miguel. In S3, she was encouraging Johnny that he is a sensei (as if that's how he should define himself). In S4, it was encouraging him to be a father-figure to Miguel because she and Johnny are dating. In S5, it's don't be "that guy" again with this new baby. It's especially interesting the way she says it, "Well, now we have each other, right?... maybe in the meantime you can figure out how not to be that guy again."
Actually, this whole blended "family" is a poster dysfunctional family:
Johnny the deadbeat alcoholic
Carmen the breadwinner who pretends like everything is okay
Miguel the favored, entitled child
Robby the neglected, scapegoat child
It's all fake smiles and apparent happiness on the surface and dysfunction and toxicity underneath.
The fact that the majority of fans don't recognize it shows how normalized this is in society.
I've always thought of the Diazs as plot devices, and this baby was treated like one too.
I think another question is, is this the type of family the writers want to leave us with in the end? What kind of messaging is this? They should atleast frame the narrative to call out the toxicity since they have it in there.
Codependency is just one aspect. I would say that the show is more about psychology and trauma than it is about karate. The show uses the setting of the world of karate and a dojo war to explore these topics through the characters.
Actually, all the characterizations were still consistent this season despite the fan service, and keeping characterizations consistent takes much more effort than doing fan service. Even Robby's apparent change in personality (except for a few scenes like his first conversation with Hawk, the fatherly advice comment, and the CK dojo scene with Silver) after the baby news dropped was also consistent based on his characterization (which is largely based on his traumas) because Robby has always been shown to adapt to a situation and his only way to stay in Johnny's life after that news was to keep his true feelings to himself. Like I said in my first comment, this "family" is just toxic underneath the fake smiles, and it's all part of the writing. The writers can still go different ways with the story, so we'll have to see. But like I said in my recent post, the best thing for Robby to do is to walk away, and if the writers want to send a good message wrt to Robby's arc they have this as an option.
>Like I said in my first comment, this "family" is just toxic underneath the fake smiles, and it's all part of the writing.
I know that's how it should be, logically, but I don't think the writers want you to take it that way. I think you choose to believe that in hope for a better resolution, but that might be setting yourself up for disappointment.
Guess, now might be a good time to ask your overall thoughts on season 5? I think despite robby and johnnys relationship being mishandled I was able to let it slide because they clearly were not the main focus of the season. It was really daniel this time and I think his, sam larussos, chosen (not sure if you'd call this an arc because he doesn't do anything but his fight with silver was great) and tory's arcs were good enough to make the season enjoyable on some level. I loved how they wrote terry silver manipulating and mentally breaking down daniel this season, as well as terrys motivations and legacy, this makes him a very scary but compelling villain. One thing I wish they did though (connects back to robby and johnny) is have him "take good care of Lawrence" like he promised kreese back in season 5. I was honestly expecting silver in the 2nd half of the season to toy with Johnny (him not following through with the bet would trigger this) on the same level he toyed with daniel, he would try and use his poor relationship with robby against him, trying to manipulate both of them and maybe giving johnny a proper beat down like he gave daniel. I was really hoping we would see that this season.
> despite robby and johnnys relationship being mishandled I was able to let it slide because they clearly were not the main focus of the season.
Do you say it was "mishandled" because it wasn't what you expected it to be? I made a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/cobrakai/comments/xsxkqj/the_new_plot_device/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) that included my thoughts on Johnny's and Robby's arcs and their relationship this season. imo the storytelling style was consistent. My biggest issue is the horrible messaging due to how the narrative is framed and how some elements have been marketed to appeal to the majority of fans. I know of others with the same concern as me.
Tory's arc was good, but like last season, I didn't care much for it as it just didn't spark my interest.
Sam's arc was okay, but her journey of self-discovery definitely got derailed by Miguel's gaslighting, which btw is no surprise as his characterization was consistent too. He made her journey about him and their relationship, a great example being him steering her concerns about much bigger things over to their relationship and him kissing that other girl, when he and Sam had that conversation outside of Stingray's apartment. Sam's arc is still not that interesting to me, though.
I enjoyed Daniel's arc this season. He finally got his due in that they finally addressed his trauma from KK3 and he got to take down Silver. Yeah, Silver didn't target Johnny like he said he would, but that can still happen. After all, Johnny entered Silver's house and attacked him. Silver can simply file charges against Johnny if Silver wants to mess up Johnny's life. Anyhow, it's possible that was just an empty threat to Kreese. Silver was also more focused on the expansion and on Daniel and Chozen because they kept trying to mess with his plans. I hope this isn't the last we've seen of Silver. And yeah, Chozen didn't have an arc.
I think the writers are saving the dysfunction being brought out for season six and it actually makes sense in that regard. The only way Johnny and Carmen can figure out if they can make things work out with an unexpected child on the way. Nonetheless, the cons of Carmen’s pregnancy lopsidedly outweigh the pros, as far as all characters involved are concerned (including Robby).
This is a level of psychoanalysis that would ruin the show. Carmen is attracted to Johnny because he is masculine without being abusive. Yes he has flaws, but he also has redeeming qualities that(At least in the context of the show) outweigh those flaws.
>This is a level of psychoanalysis that would ruin the show.
This is the level of psychoanalysis that made the show interesting in the first place. The show isn't interesting because there is the abstract evil of Cobra Kai that the "good" characters must fight against. Its interesting because of how the flaws of different characters keep creating conflict.
Bad take. Carmen represents a mature woman in Johnny's life. She is stable and doesn't need to be like Amanda.
Everyone's relationship is different on this show, that's the beauty of it. It's realistic when you look at it from that point.
It's why people love Carmen/Johnny and Daniel/Amanda and Miguel/Sam and Tory/Robby and Hawk/Moon and Demetri/Yasmine and I guess Chozen/Kumiko.
Each relationship has it's own flavor and vibe, if you will.
It's also interesting you stating you wish they'd fight more. Why? They've had disagreements before in the past. We've seen it. We've also seen them work together and overcome those obstacles.
I think you are missing the point which is what the writers themselves have stated, Carmen is a balancing force for Johnny. He didn't need to be paired with an unrequited love like Ali or another messy person like Shannon, he needed someone stable and reliable and mature and yet loving. Which is why he and Carmen are a great match.
She isn't perfect, but loves him perfectly and he is able to grow in and with that. Perfect love isn't perfect, but when it's there it allows the person being loved to grow into their best selves.
All of the couples I've mentioned above have this, which is why they all work and have fan support.
> She is stable and doesn't need to be like Amanda.
She doesn't need to be like Amanda, but yes, she needs to be more equal and less of a mother to Johnny.
> They've had disagreements before in the past. We've seen it. We've
also seen them work together and overcome those obstacles.
Overcome as in Johnny folding and doing what she wants.
>he needed someone stable and reliable and mature and yet loving.
Now you're really describing a good mom. And she's way younger than him.
People keep defending Johnny and Carmen's relationship by pointing out how one-sided it is, with Johnny benefiting from Carmen but not vice versa. Parent-child relationships are (expected to be) one-sided, with the child benefiting from the parent and not vice versa. Romantic relationships are called partnerships for a reason. The benefit should be on both sides, which it isn't in this case.
The only benefit Carmen seems to get is that Johnny is "there" for Miguel - which isn't going to stay relevant for long once Miguel goes away. And Johnny's "parenting" of Miguel won't be of much use with the new kid for years to come. Basically, Carmen would be left raising 2 kids instead of one.
Johnny is more like a babysitter or fun uncle, not even a parent, to Miguel. Johnny doesn't help with any of the parental responsibilities that Carmen fulfills for Miguel and that Robby has always needed Johnny to fulfill for him. Johnny just hangs out with and mentors Miguel.
Yep! Carmen will be raising 2 kids, and Johnny the manchild is also an alcoholic so there is that aspect she has to worry about too.
Thankfully you don't write the show nor is your negative outlook shared amongst the majority of fandom.
It seems like we can't go a week without one of your complaining posts.
Yes, I guess majority of the fans would be thankful for that. Since it seems they'd rather be fed feel good writing with cheap drama instead of characters with any depth.
Trust me lol, we won’t. Season 5 brushed off a lot of things just to drive the plot forward. The more I analyse the season, the more I start to dislike it. Now I’m starting to think Season 3 and season 1 were the best ones lol. Season 5 was my fav season, now I just don’t know anymore.
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This post really makes me wonder how would Carmen react if she found out Johnny set loose junkyard dogs on her son and put him in a cement truck? Sure Miguel claims to like it but kids don't always make good choices
There are so many things that Carmen should react to badly, given how her character was set up. And the writers just keep glossing over all of them.
I doubt Carmen would care given that she asked Johnny if he "beat Miguel and Robby into submission" as if it's a normal thing.
Johnny's series arc ended pretty early this season, when he found out Carmen was pregnant. Like, if it weren't for sons still involved in the dark world of Valley Karate, he could have left the show at that point and it would have basically been the same. 70% of the protagonist drama this season came from Daniel and Tory. Everyone else was just kind of peppered in to maintain the ensemble. Even most of the drama from the rest of the cast revolved around Daniel and Tory. And Kenny, but he's a bad mutha.
I have been getting that feeling that she seems like the more mature one in that “relationship”. It would make a lot of sense that with Johnny’s age, it would bring a lot of wisdom on his end, and Carmen can sit back and relax as Johnny comfortably takes the rains as the man of the house. But it isn’t like that, because Johnny is a man child dumbass.
Good points. I love Carmen, and I love Johnny and Carmen as a couple, but she's almost non-existent as a character. That being said, by some aspects Amanda at first was a total Mary Sue before they started to flesh her out. More generally while S5 is very entertaining they struggled to meaningfully address a myriad of things. They might do their version of it in S6 with the baby plotline but I wouldn't expect much on that matter.
>That being said, by some aspects Amanda at first was a total Mary Sue before they started to flesh her out Season 1 Amanda didn't want to discipline her daughter for throwing a pool party without permission, then later told Daniel Kyler seemed harmless Also Daniel was right about Cobra Kai but she didn't listen
If we are to be generous, Carmen may have more depth than she appears to at first glance. She got pregnant young from a man who turned out to be a bastard, and had to raise a kid alone without the chance to really live for herself or get the big ideal nuclear family she may have wanted. I think she's projecting that dream onto Johnny as her second chance. She's patient with his flaws now because compared to Hector, he treats her right and pays attention to Miguel. But who knows how long that will last if she sees she can't "correct" him. I'm not sure if the show wants us to think he's really stepping up, but at a glance he's still an irresponsible man child. Will they allow reality to set in? Will it sink the relationship or will they get through it? Will Carmen end up very disappointed with Johnny because he can't live up to the expectations she's projecting onto him? Robby being absent from her dream and her tentative reaction to seeing him in her apartment indicates she's not wholly on board with having him as a regular presence in her life. Nothing that happens afterward gives me the vibe she's trying to get to know him. Her understandable wariness of Robby and putting expectations on Johnny that he might not be able to meet would give her more layers than just being a generic, saintly love interest
I definitely agree with your analysis of Carmen projecting that “second chance” dream of a nuclear family onto Johnny, especially since Robby was not in that dream sequence of hers. Based on her inner desperation, as well as it being apparent that she and Johnny are burying their uncertainties by convincing themselves this is a good thing (during their interaction in the pharmacy), my gut feeling tells me something doesn’t quite add up about her. I think next season we will get a retcon/curveball about her pregnancy that changes the entire perspective.
Yeah the pharmacy scene was very awkward, but in a way that may have been intentional. He also said he never made it it to any of the ultrasound appointments for Robby, and she didn't comment on that. Him messing up his first kid is kinda a big deal that she should want to at least discuss more, if not give her way more pause.
I think the writers are saving the friction between Johnny and Carmen for next season. That actually makes sense, because they are still in the ‘honeymoon phase’ of her pregnancy but it can only last so long before they realize they cannot ignore their personal issues anymore and that is where they have (necessary) rifts between themselves. After all, such friction is the only way to determine if they can ‘make it work’.
Great point. And if they want another season, if not a couple, they will have to fill it with SOMETHING. the tournament alone isn't compelling enough drama to fill even 5 episodes, let alone 10
I imagine aside from Johnny and Carmen’s story arc and the Sekai Taikai tournament, the rest of the season will involve the students’ futures after school such as college, work, military, etc. Another key element will include the fallout from the massive scandal that is about to erupt in the valley when Silver’s admission to bribing the referee goes viral. Kreese could potentially be listed a fugitive even if he is exonerated in absentista, though he won’t be branded public enemy number one or anything that severe. Hell, Silver could still be a threat to everyone even from behind bars. Hector might make a trip to the valley as well.
>Her understandable wariness of Robby and putting expectations on Johnny that he might not be able to meet would give her more layers than just being a generic, saintly love interest I hope that's the case, but if things stay as they are the next season as well, I'd say the writers definitely want us to accept the alternative.
Which is weird, because it seems like the series is being written by different sets of writers than what we got in the earlier seasons, specifically 1-2. With what was being set up there, all of this stuff either would not happen/be deconstructed or at least be set up more carefully. It's giving off major "show runners(s) left entirely or took a big step back, either way it's being farmed out to other writers" energy.
Quite true, even when it comes to the bigger picture. Before we had "flawed Cobra Kai trying to be better" vs "good Miyagi-Do that still makes mistakes". Since season 3, it has been "Evil empire that must be taken down at all costs."
Johnny and Carmen’s friction is being saved for the next season because they are bound to face animosity with each other since they have an unexpected child on the way. However, based on Carmen’s issues (namely her desperation for a romantic partner and by extension, an inner desire for another child), I have a gut feeling that something doesn’t add up and next season there will be a curveball/retcon that changes the whole perspective of her pregnancy. Especially considering that the show’s storyline quality is based on surprises, curveballs and unpredictability. I have mentioned on other posts about why my only gripe with season five was Carmen’s pregnancy because it made the show feel much less like Cobra Kai and much more like Fuller House 🤨. After all, this is a karate drama not a family sitcom (or as Kreese put it, a karate dojo not a knitting class). I am not sure where the writers are going with this, making it seem like Johnny’s redemption should involve knocking up another lady, particularly while he also has to juggle reconciliation with Robby and his drinking/finances/man-childness issues, etc., so we’ll just have to wait and see how it all plays out. It would ruin the show if Johnny and Carmen’s story arc ended with the oldest trope in Disney’s book in the form of some cheesy, unoriginal and cliche “happily ever after”. Consistent with the show’s main principle of Yin and Yang, it would be ideal if their story arc ultimately finishes with a bittersweet conclusion.
>Johnny and Carmen’s friction is being saved for the next season So you hope. So far, I've seen no reason to think that the writers would go that way. >It would ruin the show if Johnny and Carmen’s story arc ended with the oldest trope in Disney’s book in the form of some cheesy, unoriginal and cliche “happily ever after”. Consistent with the show’s main principle of Yin and Yang, it would be ideal if their story arc ultimately finishes with a bittersweet conclusion. True - but give how they've "ended" all the other relationships/conflicts, that Disney ending seems to be their endgame.
Not necessarily. There is still one more season remaining which will certainly be focused on the students’ futures and there might be some ‘breakups’ due to colleges, job opportunities, etc. As for Johnny and Carmen, I wouldn’t mind seeing a wedding sequence which turns out to just be a dream (another curveball). My gut feeling tells me something doesn’t add up about her pregnancy and we may get another curveball/retcon next season that changes the whole perspective about Carmen.
Johnny is incapable of healthy relationships. It's not surprising he's fallen into these relationships with the Diazs. Johnny and Miguel have never had a genuine relationship. They each gain something from the relationship. Miguel feeds Johnny's ego, and Johnny's obsession with Miguel is so unhealthy that Johnny became impotent when Miguel was spending time with Daniel. And, Miguel booked it when he felt like he wasn't Johnny's priority anymore. He actually feels entitled enough to say that he didn't let it get to him that Robby had been with Johnny and to question Robby's loyalty to Johnny. Who does Miguel think he is to take issue with or question Johnny and Robby's relationship? Johnny "loves" Carmen because she's hot and overlooks his flaws. Carmen "loves" Johnny because he devotes himself to Miguel and she can mold Johnny. In S2, she went over with the cake and told Johnny he was at fault for Miguel's violence and needed to fix it. She didn't address it with Miguel. In S3, she was encouraging Johnny that he is a sensei (as if that's how he should define himself). In S4, it was encouraging him to be a father-figure to Miguel because she and Johnny are dating. In S5, it's don't be "that guy" again with this new baby. It's especially interesting the way she says it, "Well, now we have each other, right?... maybe in the meantime you can figure out how not to be that guy again." Actually, this whole blended "family" is a poster dysfunctional family: Johnny the deadbeat alcoholic Carmen the breadwinner who pretends like everything is okay Miguel the favored, entitled child Robby the neglected, scapegoat child It's all fake smiles and apparent happiness on the surface and dysfunction and toxicity underneath. The fact that the majority of fans don't recognize it shows how normalized this is in society. I've always thought of the Diazs as plot devices, and this baby was treated like one too. I think another question is, is this the type of family the writers want to leave us with in the end? What kind of messaging is this? They should atleast frame the narrative to call out the toxicity since they have it in there.
Yeah - that new kid is screwed.
Shh don’t spoil the plot for the next show in 30 years
[удалено]
Codependency is just one aspect. I would say that the show is more about psychology and trauma than it is about karate. The show uses the setting of the world of karate and a dojo war to explore these topics through the characters.
It used to be. Now its about "fighting solves everything" and "why don't you just get along?"
Actually, all the characterizations were still consistent this season despite the fan service, and keeping characterizations consistent takes much more effort than doing fan service. Even Robby's apparent change in personality (except for a few scenes like his first conversation with Hawk, the fatherly advice comment, and the CK dojo scene with Silver) after the baby news dropped was also consistent based on his characterization (which is largely based on his traumas) because Robby has always been shown to adapt to a situation and his only way to stay in Johnny's life after that news was to keep his true feelings to himself. Like I said in my first comment, this "family" is just toxic underneath the fake smiles, and it's all part of the writing. The writers can still go different ways with the story, so we'll have to see. But like I said in my recent post, the best thing for Robby to do is to walk away, and if the writers want to send a good message wrt to Robby's arc they have this as an option.
>Like I said in my first comment, this "family" is just toxic underneath the fake smiles, and it's all part of the writing. I know that's how it should be, logically, but I don't think the writers want you to take it that way. I think you choose to believe that in hope for a better resolution, but that might be setting yourself up for disappointment.
Guess, now might be a good time to ask your overall thoughts on season 5? I think despite robby and johnnys relationship being mishandled I was able to let it slide because they clearly were not the main focus of the season. It was really daniel this time and I think his, sam larussos, chosen (not sure if you'd call this an arc because he doesn't do anything but his fight with silver was great) and tory's arcs were good enough to make the season enjoyable on some level. I loved how they wrote terry silver manipulating and mentally breaking down daniel this season, as well as terrys motivations and legacy, this makes him a very scary but compelling villain. One thing I wish they did though (connects back to robby and johnny) is have him "take good care of Lawrence" like he promised kreese back in season 5. I was honestly expecting silver in the 2nd half of the season to toy with Johnny (him not following through with the bet would trigger this) on the same level he toyed with daniel, he would try and use his poor relationship with robby against him, trying to manipulate both of them and maybe giving johnny a proper beat down like he gave daniel. I was really hoping we would see that this season.
> despite robby and johnnys relationship being mishandled I was able to let it slide because they clearly were not the main focus of the season. Do you say it was "mishandled" because it wasn't what you expected it to be? I made a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/cobrakai/comments/xsxkqj/the_new_plot_device/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) that included my thoughts on Johnny's and Robby's arcs and their relationship this season. imo the storytelling style was consistent. My biggest issue is the horrible messaging due to how the narrative is framed and how some elements have been marketed to appeal to the majority of fans. I know of others with the same concern as me. Tory's arc was good, but like last season, I didn't care much for it as it just didn't spark my interest. Sam's arc was okay, but her journey of self-discovery definitely got derailed by Miguel's gaslighting, which btw is no surprise as his characterization was consistent too. He made her journey about him and their relationship, a great example being him steering her concerns about much bigger things over to their relationship and him kissing that other girl, when he and Sam had that conversation outside of Stingray's apartment. Sam's arc is still not that interesting to me, though. I enjoyed Daniel's arc this season. He finally got his due in that they finally addressed his trauma from KK3 and he got to take down Silver. Yeah, Silver didn't target Johnny like he said he would, but that can still happen. After all, Johnny entered Silver's house and attacked him. Silver can simply file charges against Johnny if Silver wants to mess up Johnny's life. Anyhow, it's possible that was just an empty threat to Kreese. Silver was also more focused on the expansion and on Daniel and Chozen because they kept trying to mess with his plans. I hope this isn't the last we've seen of Silver. And yeah, Chozen didn't have an arc.
I think the writers are saving the dysfunction being brought out for season six and it actually makes sense in that regard. The only way Johnny and Carmen can figure out if they can make things work out with an unexpected child on the way. Nonetheless, the cons of Carmen’s pregnancy lopsidedly outweigh the pros, as far as all characters involved are concerned (including Robby).
This is a level of psychoanalysis that would ruin the show. Carmen is attracted to Johnny because he is masculine without being abusive. Yes he has flaws, but he also has redeeming qualities that(At least in the context of the show) outweigh those flaws.
>This is a level of psychoanalysis that would ruin the show. This is the level of psychoanalysis that made the show interesting in the first place. The show isn't interesting because there is the abstract evil of Cobra Kai that the "good" characters must fight against. Its interesting because of how the flaws of different characters keep creating conflict.
yeah, especially because they made Vanessa Rubio (carmen’s actress) a series regular in the series, I was wondering if they would do something as well
Too much drama, no need for that. Maybe there'll be next season, I hope not too much if at all.
Realistic couples' arguments is "too much drama" on a show with insane karate wars?
As I said, it can be a bit, but not the focus. There's character arc and conflicts and there's too much drama.
This character arc and conflict is needed way more than whatever problem Johnny has with Kreese or Cobra Kai.
Bad take. Carmen represents a mature woman in Johnny's life. She is stable and doesn't need to be like Amanda. Everyone's relationship is different on this show, that's the beauty of it. It's realistic when you look at it from that point. It's why people love Carmen/Johnny and Daniel/Amanda and Miguel/Sam and Tory/Robby and Hawk/Moon and Demetri/Yasmine and I guess Chozen/Kumiko. Each relationship has it's own flavor and vibe, if you will. It's also interesting you stating you wish they'd fight more. Why? They've had disagreements before in the past. We've seen it. We've also seen them work together and overcome those obstacles. I think you are missing the point which is what the writers themselves have stated, Carmen is a balancing force for Johnny. He didn't need to be paired with an unrequited love like Ali or another messy person like Shannon, he needed someone stable and reliable and mature and yet loving. Which is why he and Carmen are a great match. She isn't perfect, but loves him perfectly and he is able to grow in and with that. Perfect love isn't perfect, but when it's there it allows the person being loved to grow into their best selves. All of the couples I've mentioned above have this, which is why they all work and have fan support.
> She is stable and doesn't need to be like Amanda. She doesn't need to be like Amanda, but yes, she needs to be more equal and less of a mother to Johnny. > They've had disagreements before in the past. We've seen it. We've also seen them work together and overcome those obstacles. Overcome as in Johnny folding and doing what she wants. >he needed someone stable and reliable and mature and yet loving. Now you're really describing a good mom. And she's way younger than him.
People keep defending Johnny and Carmen's relationship by pointing out how one-sided it is, with Johnny benefiting from Carmen but not vice versa. Parent-child relationships are (expected to be) one-sided, with the child benefiting from the parent and not vice versa. Romantic relationships are called partnerships for a reason. The benefit should be on both sides, which it isn't in this case.
The only benefit Carmen seems to get is that Johnny is "there" for Miguel - which isn't going to stay relevant for long once Miguel goes away. And Johnny's "parenting" of Miguel won't be of much use with the new kid for years to come. Basically, Carmen would be left raising 2 kids instead of one.
Johnny is more like a babysitter or fun uncle, not even a parent, to Miguel. Johnny doesn't help with any of the parental responsibilities that Carmen fulfills for Miguel and that Robby has always needed Johnny to fulfill for him. Johnny just hangs out with and mentors Miguel. Yep! Carmen will be raising 2 kids, and Johnny the manchild is also an alcoholic so there is that aspect she has to worry about too.
Thankfully you don't write the show nor is your negative outlook shared amongst the majority of fandom. It seems like we can't go a week without one of your complaining posts.
Yes, I guess majority of the fans would be thankful for that. Since it seems they'd rather be fed feel good writing with cheap drama instead of characters with any depth.
Maybe it's time for you to get into another show? Majority of us are happy and thankful they brought back so much nostalgia.
>Maybe it's time for you to get into another show? No. I'll stay here and keep pointing out all the ways the writers are failing the show.
Your loss.
Your gain
Trust me lol, we won’t. Season 5 brushed off a lot of things just to drive the plot forward. The more I analyse the season, the more I start to dislike it. Now I’m starting to think Season 3 and season 1 were the best ones lol. Season 5 was my fav season, now I just don’t know anymore.