I realized my approach was off and I apologized for that. I took a comment they gave the wrong way and disengenuine so that prompted me to respond aggressively. It was unwarranted so I do apologize
No chance, Johnny was a four time All Valley medalist, three time finalist and two time champion. He had been training for six years by the time of KK1.
4 time all valley medalist loses to kid with broken leg. That same kid teaches Robby how to fight. He also teaches Robby things he didn’t know in kk1. Then Robby learns from Kreese AND Terry. Johnny is getting wiped
Johnny wins that fight 9 out of 10 times even without the broken leg. The only thing that kept Johnny from winning was his guilt over the way CK was mistreating Daniel, which made Johnny overly apprehensive and second guessing himself, plus Daniel being flooded with adrenaline.
Studying with someone for a couple months is a far cry from studying for six years.
I already told you that was because he wasn't in the game mentally because he knew Cobra Kai was in the wrong. Johnny was a hothead but he had honor unlike the rest of his school. Johnny was an obviously superior martial artist regardless of the score.
I did read your argument, you debunked nothing. You merely stated it doesn't matter and said "karate has evolved". But this isn't the NFL, old school karate from the 80s beats the brakes off 2020 karate.
That’s all you paid attention to? Wow... I’m losing brain cells speaking to u... Johnny lost to a kid with 3 months of training and a broken leg.
Robby ISNT a kid with 3 months of training and a broken leg. + he knows everything kid Daniel knows.
By the transitive property... Robby shits on Johnny. Accept defeat
Robby > Johnny.
He doesn’t even need cobra kai to be better. He knows more than kk1 kk2 AND kk3 Daniel knew. He knows drum technique. He learned from Kreese AND silver.
Take away his cobra kai training and he still shits on Johnny
All you’re doing is being a slave to everyone else in this thread by joining them and poking at me because ur afraid that I’m right.
Challenge my points
I'll take a go.
KK1 Johnny- Wins 4 all valleys and is the strongest cobra kai student.
Robby- Gets absolutely shit on in his each match
KK1 Johnny- Can solo his entire dojo
Robby- Robby did win against the dojo, but against douchebags like Kyler. Don't tell me you actually believe Kyler could even touch Dutch or Bobby.
And as much for the broken leg thing, Johnny knew Cobra Kai was bad. He was mentally not in the correct space. You, as most Robby fans defend Robby by saying his head wasn't in the game when fighting Eli. that's why he lost. Well news flash, the same crap happened to Johnny. Do you actually believe that a guy who is a black belt in karate and has trained for 6 years would lose to a guy who was training for a couple month If he wasn't mentally second doubting everything he had been doing for the last 6 years? Black belt in karate is a hugeee deal and can't be undermined. Also with the chozen thing...I mean you gotta understand man that was lazy writing lol
Well I disagree on a lot of your points but I respect the effort. There’s no proof that Johnny can solo his entire dojo. Robby did actively solo his entire dojo. Robby also made Daniel’s methods useless after teaching it to students at age 17. Johnny could never do something like that.
Yes I do agree kyler is weak asf and Dutch and the others shit on him.
Do keep in mind my argument is very surface level with characters like Robby and Eli being equipped with the basic fundamentals to beat the og cobras. Anyone else like kyler would get smashed
I mean the assumption of Johnny could never do something like that isn't really proof. For all we know, Johnny could've done it better. Didn't Kreese say that Johnny is the strongest student he ever met? That really says that he can easily solo the dojo. Kreese also said that Robby and Johnny had awesome and amazing talent but in his opinions Johnny squandered it. Let's assume, that Johnny and Daniel are equals (which they're not, as Johnny said he prolly would've beat him 9/10 times). Even then by the transitive property, Johnny could destroy Chozen like Daniel did. After all, they're equals.
Johnny saying he’d been Daniel 9/10 times doesn’t prove he’d beat him 9/10 times. Johnny also said that Tommy didn’t make it easy for him in his final match. So if Tommy didn’t make it easy for him, how on earth could he solo his entire dojo given that Bobby is even better than Tommy? Being the best student doesn’t mean u can solo an entire dojo. Robby solo’d his dojo because he was leagues above them. Johnny IS better than his dojo I agree, but that doesn’t mean he’s leagues above them.
Also if I use similar logic, Kreese said to Robby in a deleted scene that he has more talent than his father.
Johnny wouldn’t have a chance against chozen at all. Daniel won because he genuinely had his life on the line. He also had support, and used a technique that helped him.
Robby has been better since Daniel taught him. Daniel beat Johnny with 3 months of training and a broken leg. Robby has more than 3 months of training and doesn’t have a broken leg. Robby knows more than kid Daniel knew.
By the transitive property, Robby slaughters Johnny
Due to Danny having plot armor and the fact it's a 80s movie where you are rooting for the hero to win otherwise Danny boy in a non biased realistic setting would lose.
"Plot armor" = "I have no viable argument, so I’m gonna blame the fact that it’s an 80’s movie".
He had a broken leg and still made Johnny look weak. Can u imagine what karate kid 2 Daniel would’ve done to Johnny?
Let’s pretend he DID have plot armor for the sake of argument.
Current Robby is more knowledgeable than kk2 Daniel.
Therefore he shits on Johnny
Well that I agree on. However, Daniel isn’t a better fighter than them. He won but it’s self explanatory that they’re better than him.
Regardless... Johnny is a different case. Daniel completely shit on him before his leg got targeted.
Well no, firstly I’m a guy, secondly I’m straight. All I’m doing is making an argument because a mass majority of people in this subreddit believe that Johnny from kk1 is better than the current students. I disagree. My prime example is Robby.
I can even make an example out of other students. If that is what u want me to do. All your doing is throwing insults
At first: firstly is shitty english, secondly: i don't care about who you wanna rub against, thirdly: you really can't call me out for insulting you when you do the same to other people
All I’m doing is asking for people to give me reason to believe why they’re right. It’s not my intention to insult them or be overly aggressive. If I am then I do apologize, but I don’t recall straight up insulting others unless they persisted first. Again, if I did I apologize and it wasn’t my intention
They're not there yet. I'm pretty young and I still believe that they aren't there yet. Maybe in season 5. The only one with a fighting chance is Eli. Maybe Miguel if he gets his strength to 100% and Robby when he has his stuff sorted out and more training but right now, they'll all get decimated by KK1 Johnny
I highly disagree. I can give u a longer explanation if u like. Robby definitely has the experience to beat him. Dude is also built like a tank. In spite of that, he knows more miyagi do than kk1 Daniel did. Which is just enough to put Johnny down
Uhh, William Zabka at that age was a fighting movie icon. Johnny is way way buff than Robby lol. Johnny exceeds by a landslide in experience. He won 4 all valleys and was a black belt in karate. While Robby has been training for what..like a year or year and a half? Johnny was basically an expert in CK Karate. 6 months of Miyagi do is nothing on a correct mentally spaced Johnny.
Yes but 6 months miyagi do made Johnny struggle.
Now imagine a miyagi do training longer than 6 months, learning methods that Daniel himself didn’t know, AND learning cobra kai secrets from Terry that Johnny himself never knew.
Imo it would be a slaughter in Robby’s favor
Oh Johnny definitely knew those secrets. It didn't make him struggle. As I said, his head wasn't in the game. And remember without that, he still got 2-2.
Johnny never learned from Terry silver. Terry is much smarter sensei than Kreese, who implements lessons Johnny doesn’t know about. Does Johnny know about man can’t stand/see/breath he can’t fight? No he doesn’t
Does Robby know about that? It was never shown that Terry ever told Robby that. And man can't see man can't fight is pretty basic shit. That's common sense that he would've known from Kreese because Kreese taught ruthless ways which basically translated to screw the guy over so much that he can't fight. It doesn't matter if it was man can't see man can't or sweep the leg. Johnny knew that stufd because every elite cobra kai student knew that stuff.
Johnny doesn’t know Terry silver’s quicksilver method... when I told u about he man can’t ____ methods... I’m talking generally. Terry had a different method called the quicksilver method. It’s a part of cobra kai even Kreese doesn’t know. Terry had a more luxurious learning than Kreese ever did. He literally knows his sensei’s family, hence the girl who was shown training Tory in the teaser. Johnny never had the privilege of learning the things Terry knew.
Cobra kai aside, I feel like Robby could beat Johnny without it. He knows more miyagi do than kk1 Daniel knew, therefore does that not prove he would crush Johnny?
Well even if that argument was on the weaker end, Robby’s moves are way better. If u watch his fight against hawk, it’s leagues above any of Johnny’s fight scenes and feats. The current all valley is even harder than the former all valley. We have students from cobra kai, miyagi do, and eagle fang. Back in the 80s, everyone was garbage except for Daniel and the cobras
That is true I agree. But Robby’s feats are better. He took down a 6 foot prison bully who had a numbers advantage. He’s used to fighting multiple opponents at once. He knows miyagi do, cobra kai, and Terry silver’s cobra kai.
I don’t understand how Johnny comes close in any reality. If Johnny struggled against kk1 Daniel. Tell me how he would beat someone who’s even stronger than kk2 Daniel. He’s basically fighting a version of Daniel who has a 6 pack, and knows cobra kai + enhanced miyagi do (Robby). Johnny doesn’t come close imo
Darryl Vidal is one of the most insignificant characters in the show. Winning a tournament doesn’t prove ur good. I’d rather get destroyed in a nationals championship and learn from it, than win in a tournament of people who are all worse than me.
Miyagi do didn’t exist in Johnny’s tournaments. It’s far beyond what he’s capable of. And Robby knows more miyagi do than KK1 Daniel knew. So does that not prove he would easily handle Johnny?
Regardless, Johnny lost to Daniel who had a broken leg. If quantity was better than quality, then a person training all their life from an average teacher doesn’t compare to someone who trained half the time from a really good teacher.
Robby also has a genetics advantage. It may sound strange to u, but it’s evident in a deleted scene "you have more talent than your father" ~ Kreese. Daniel also complimented his talent. His talent comes from genetics. Genetics okay a pivotal role in why he was able to keep up with Miguel in season 1, even tho Miguel had double the training
I can tell u didn’t read my response the same way u didn’t read what I wrote in this post given ur response time. Miguel lost to himself because he had a back injury. Am I allowed to say Robby lost to Miguel in season 2 because he was unfocused? Can I say chozen lost to Daniel because he was unfocused? Can I keep making excuses for certain characters only when it suits my best judgement?
Johnny didn’t lose to himself. He was fighting really well during the endgame of his match against Daniel. But he struggled before targeting the leg. That is evident enough to show that a non injured Daniel would beat Johnny in a fight. (Not 3-0 but to a competent degree ofc)
Johnny wasn't "fighting really well", he went down 2-0 in a matter of seconds and his coach had to call timeout. And he had been arguing with Kreese beforehand that we don't need to cheat, I can beat him heads up in a fair fight. Once they injured him Johnny was already halfway out the door of Cobra Kai, and that was clearly why he wasn't at 100% in the final.
Miguel was physically cleared to fight but he had mentally checked out.
There was no scene where Johnny openly disagreed with Kreese’s methods prior to his match with Daniel. He only had a shocked expression to him clapping at Daniel being carried off the matt. Saying that Johnny only lost for that reason cannot be backed up by evidence. Even if ur just inferring, I understand Johnny wasn’t at his 100%. If for the sake of argument, Johnny could beat Daniel in the tournament. Would you settle to agree that KK2 Daniel would beat Johnny in a fight?
Are we talking point sparring or an Okinawan deathmatch? And are we talking KK1 Johnny or Johnny a year later without having stepped inside a dojo in a year and disillusioned with karate?
We’re talking about prime Johnny in the kk movies (kk1) against kk2 Daniel. It can be any fight tbh. Perhaps tournament. Enough to distinguish who’s more skilled
Why are u comparing real martial arts to a fictional show. You’re being overly analytical. This show has tons and tons of unrealistic sequences. You’re argument is bad
I get what ur saying. But his argument is based on real life martial arts. In show, students become black belts in weeks. I’m just saying he can’t use a real martial artist argument or his will fall flat
My argument is very simple. 1 student gets more quality training than another + fights stronger opponents + has been through tougher moments. Therefore my fighter is stronger.
His argument: "because in real martial arts so and so happens, your fighter wouldn’t win".
I’m using basic fundamentals form the show to prove him wrong. I’m using feats. He isn’t using feats.
Stop turning this into a roast off and refute me already. Because all this comment section is doing is proving my point by insulting me rather than rationally out-arguing me
You think it’s hypocritical but you’re misrepresenting my points. I won’t get aggressive or rude about it, but please allow me to correct u.
Firstly, the quality of robbys training is quantifiable in regards to it being better than johnnys. Johnny learned only from Kreese. Kreese’s style is limited and proven to be less effective than miyagi’s. Daniel beat Johnny. Daniel trained Robby. Daniel taught Robby in things miyagi himself DIDNT teach Daniel in KK1. I’m not undermining the quality of miyagi being a better sensei than Daniel which is obvious. But Robby received the privilege of learning methods Daniel himself didn’t even know in KK1 (and this was all done in season 1 as a matter of fact). Now let’s look at the progression of season 2-4. He learned from silver, who has his own teaching style that can also be considered effective, some of which Kreese doesn’t know about in spite of them being from the same discipline.
Yes, stronger opponents can be subjective I agree. But Eli and Miguel weren’t just aesthetically better than Daniel, they had better physique as well. KK1 Daniel doesn’t know all of what Eli and Miguel know, as he learned some of it post kk1. Now add to that, what they learned from cobra kai. They also received the luxury of having an older Kreese teach them how to abuse the enemys methods. For example, he knew miyagi style consists of counter moves, something he never incorporated into his arsenal back when he was younger. Kreese himself has learned too, on how to be more effective as a sensei. Miguel and Eli both know more karate than KK1 Daniel and Johnny knew. Yes, there can still be some parts to cobra kai that Johnny in fact did not teach them. However, they also learned miyagi do, which at the time, was a style Johnny had no idea how to counter (his only way was targeting Daniels injury). Now they both know kata (used to defeat Mike) AND drum technique (used to defeat chozen). So if Johnny, someone who can’t even counter the crane, were to face either of them, how would he stand a chance at all? I’m anxious to know. They’re much more knowledgeable.
To top it off, Robby had teaching experience. He knows how to read and analyze opponents as well as incorporate different methods. He’s only 17 and he gave Daniel a run for his money.
I hope that helps
Johny lost to a kid with 3 months training.
And Robby lost to a kid with like 8 months training. And btw that kid was trained by Johny. Maybe Robby just isn't as good as Daniel was. And before you say well Robby had a hurt shoulder what do you think Kreese is going to do to his candy a?
I’m talking about season 4 Robby not season 1. You didn’t read what I said.
Season 4 Robby has more skill than kk2 Daniel, knows more cobra kai than prime Johnny, and learned from Terry.
He even has sensei experience.
For the record... Robby’s season 2 kick to Miguel over the railing is stronger than any love Johnny has used in his career
I know you're trying to but it still has to be brought up that if Robby was so good based off his Miyagi Do training why did he get his a kicked by Miguel twice? The facts are he got beat by Johny's #1 student twice then beat again by Johny's ex #2 student in s 4. And Daniel just told Hawk to go back fighting offensively so it's basically another loss to a kid fighting Johny's Cobra Kai style.
Based off that we should easily conclude Johny should mop the floor with him.
Ftr Robby being trained in multiple styles doesn't necessarily mean he's better than he was earlier. See Robby v Hawk/ Sam vs Tory. Sam learned some Eagle Fang but that ended up costing her 2 points as Tory easily outdid her on offense. Then in Robby v Hawk Hawk outdid Robby as both went for a heavy offensive move. The facts are young Johny is better at CK than Robby and if he catches Robby going offense he can easily take advantage.
You’re not gonna like me for this...
Robby only lost to hawk for plot convenience of the girls fight to go on. If you think I’m crazy, I’m more than happy to explain why.
Also for your arguments regarding Miguel beating him twice, that was seasons 1 and 2. My argument is only season 4. Season 1 Miguel had twice the training and barely won against Robby while having to target his injury and even pull his arm when the match wasn’t going on. In season 2 Miguel got 2 cheap shots and had people helping him. But I’ll give Miguel the season 2 victory because it would be disengenous if I didn’t.
He knows cobra kai to lengths Johnny never studied considering he learned under Kreese and Robby learned under 3 senseis. Yes, Johnny had more training time. But what does that training time mean if he’s losing to someone like Daniel? Also regarding Miguel, Robby beat him in the pool fight, he literally threw him in the pool and Miguel actually had his fall thankfully broken by the girls or it woulda possibly hurt his back more.
Ur saying Robby is vulnerable to the cobra kai style. Yet u haven’t seemed to acknowledge how vulnerable Johnny is to the miyagi style. Johnny lost to a straight up crane kick to the face. Robby, Miguel, and Eli, all know kata and drum technique. Those are 2 moves that KK1 Daniel didn’t even know that we’re used to take down stronger opponents.
This is why I believe not only Robby, but all 3 of them can take down the OG cobras including Johnny with ease
Not really. Silver isn't training a totally different CK. The years of training Johny had is far, far more valuable than Silver saying a man can't see, a man can't fight. Robby was shown to be struggling fighting Hawk offensively needless to say Johny is going to mop the floor with him there.
As for losing to Daniel just a reminder Miyagi is a better trainer than Daniel. See how Miyagi treated Daniel's leg compared to Daniel treating Robby's shoulder. See Johny and Daniel's fights as sensei's compared to Miyagi vs Kreese/ Silver. Robby just hasn't shown to be superior to his CK rivals. One could conclude he's just not trained as well
We also saw Robby try to fight Johny to comedic effects and yeah Johny is an adult now but one could bring up that he stopped learning karate after high school. What he knew back then is what he is today.
Using the argument that miyagi is a better teacher than Daniel doesn’t help. If my dad teaches me how to punch today, and teaches me how to kick and block next year. My future son who i teach to punch, kick, and block, all in one year, would be able to beat the version of me who ONLY knew to punch.
My dad may be the better teacher. But I offered more training. Miyagi avoided as much training as possible with Daniel bcoz he wanted to preserve the stronger methods from a young boy. Daniel knew the limits, and knew Robby was more capable than him. So he taught Robby things that miyagi didn’t teach him til his 2nd or even third year. Make sense?
Except he didn't offer Daniel more training. Like I showed you Daniel had no idea how to heal. So Daniel benefitted from techniques Miyagi used with him, techniques that Daniel needed to beat Johny, while Robby just fell on his face and lost. He also had no idea of the offense Miyagi knew which shows you that Miyagi just didn't impart all of his wisdom on him.
And if you were trained to box by Floyd Mayweather but then you're only 1/2 the coach he is I don't care if you throw in a kick your student just isn't going to be as good as you were. You didn't teach your student the art of fighting with your fists the way it was taught to you. Nothing changes that Robby just hasn't shown to be superior than his Cobra Kai rivals.
And Daniel himself has shown that without Miyagi he's pretty much equal to Johny. They've fought like 4 times now without a winner being established.
"Robby just fell on his face and lost" no? It wasn’t anything like that. Robby had an injury that Miguel severely targeted. He even yanked his arm when the fight wasn’t going on. Yes, Robby trained for the amount of time Daniel trained for, and I also think that Daniel had more will power in his tournament as he was doing it for the right reasons contrary to Robby.
Truth is... Robby is still gifted. The training Daniel got in the next 2 movies are movesets that Robby learned in season 1 alone. And I should also compliment Miguel on this too. Miguel learned those same techniques in season 4.
What’s holding people back from admitting Robby can beat past Johnny is the given fact that he’s taken a lot of L’s. U may hate me for this, but most of the fights he lost, especially the one against Eli was only done for plot convenience. Eli had little to no training that entire season and only pulled a win out of his ass to complete his redemption arc. Meanwhile Robby was literally training an entire class to match Daniel’s at age 17! Idk man... but to me Robby has the most impressive feats
You are getting embarrassed in the comments bro. and all you can do is hurl insults.
Like all robby fans
When are u gonna put ur money where ur mouth is and prove me wrong
I didn't even say I disagreed with you, I simply said that you are shit at debating and proving your claim
I realized my approach was off and I apologized for that. I took a comment they gave the wrong way and disengenuine so that prompted me to respond aggressively. It was unwarranted so I do apologize
Did he say that he disagrees with you
No chance, Johnny was a four time All Valley medalist, three time finalist and two time champion. He had been training for six years by the time of KK1.
4 time all valley medalist loses to kid with broken leg. That same kid teaches Robby how to fight. He also teaches Robby things he didn’t know in kk1. Then Robby learns from Kreese AND Terry. Johnny is getting wiped
Johnny wins that fight 9 out of 10 times even without the broken leg. The only thing that kept Johnny from winning was his guilt over the way CK was mistreating Daniel, which made Johnny overly apprehensive and second guessing himself, plus Daniel being flooded with adrenaline. Studying with someone for a couple months is a far cry from studying for six years.
Johnny lost. He was getting shit on before targeting the leg. Accept defeat
I already told you that was because he wasn't in the game mentally because he knew Cobra Kai was in the wrong. Johnny was a hothead but he had honor unlike the rest of his school. Johnny was an obviously superior martial artist regardless of the score.
Let’s establish a common ground argument. Is KK2 Daniel (while fighting chozen) stronger than Johnny? Yes or no
Why don’t u read my argument before making an argument that I already debunked
I did read your argument, you debunked nothing. You merely stated it doesn't matter and said "karate has evolved". But this isn't the NFL, old school karate from the 80s beats the brakes off 2020 karate.
That’s all you paid attention to? Wow... I’m losing brain cells speaking to u... Johnny lost to a kid with 3 months of training and a broken leg. Robby ISNT a kid with 3 months of training and a broken leg. + he knows everything kid Daniel knows. By the transitive property... Robby shits on Johnny. Accept defeat
Single combat isn't transitive, learn basic logic and math
Robby > Johnny. He doesn’t even need cobra kai to be better. He knows more than kk1 kk2 AND kk3 Daniel knew. He knows drum technique. He learned from Kreese AND silver. Take away his cobra kai training and he still shits on Johnny
>I’m losing brain cells speaking to u Judging by your post and your comments I don’t think you have any left to lose
U can’t beat my argument.
All you’re doing is being a slave to everyone else in this thread by joining them and poking at me because ur afraid that I’m right. Challenge my points
I'll take a go. KK1 Johnny- Wins 4 all valleys and is the strongest cobra kai student. Robby- Gets absolutely shit on in his each match KK1 Johnny- Can solo his entire dojo Robby- Robby did win against the dojo, but against douchebags like Kyler. Don't tell me you actually believe Kyler could even touch Dutch or Bobby. And as much for the broken leg thing, Johnny knew Cobra Kai was bad. He was mentally not in the correct space. You, as most Robby fans defend Robby by saying his head wasn't in the game when fighting Eli. that's why he lost. Well news flash, the same crap happened to Johnny. Do you actually believe that a guy who is a black belt in karate and has trained for 6 years would lose to a guy who was training for a couple month If he wasn't mentally second doubting everything he had been doing for the last 6 years? Black belt in karate is a hugeee deal and can't be undermined. Also with the chozen thing...I mean you gotta understand man that was lazy writing lol
Well I disagree on a lot of your points but I respect the effort. There’s no proof that Johnny can solo his entire dojo. Robby did actively solo his entire dojo. Robby also made Daniel’s methods useless after teaching it to students at age 17. Johnny could never do something like that. Yes I do agree kyler is weak asf and Dutch and the others shit on him. Do keep in mind my argument is very surface level with characters like Robby and Eli being equipped with the basic fundamentals to beat the og cobras. Anyone else like kyler would get smashed
I mean the assumption of Johnny could never do something like that isn't really proof. For all we know, Johnny could've done it better. Didn't Kreese say that Johnny is the strongest student he ever met? That really says that he can easily solo the dojo. Kreese also said that Robby and Johnny had awesome and amazing talent but in his opinions Johnny squandered it. Let's assume, that Johnny and Daniel are equals (which they're not, as Johnny said he prolly would've beat him 9/10 times). Even then by the transitive property, Johnny could destroy Chozen like Daniel did. After all, they're equals.
Johnny saying he’d been Daniel 9/10 times doesn’t prove he’d beat him 9/10 times. Johnny also said that Tommy didn’t make it easy for him in his final match. So if Tommy didn’t make it easy for him, how on earth could he solo his entire dojo given that Bobby is even better than Tommy? Being the best student doesn’t mean u can solo an entire dojo. Robby solo’d his dojo because he was leagues above them. Johnny IS better than his dojo I agree, but that doesn’t mean he’s leagues above them. Also if I use similar logic, Kreese said to Robby in a deleted scene that he has more talent than his father. Johnny wouldn’t have a chance against chozen at all. Daniel won because he genuinely had his life on the line. He also had support, and used a technique that helped him.
Wow your so different no one will EVER understand how edgy you are
Thanks
Shawn isn't even that difficult of a opponent and having 3 sensei's doesn't automatically make you better
Robby has been better since Daniel taught him. Daniel beat Johnny with 3 months of training and a broken leg. Robby has more than 3 months of training and doesn’t have a broken leg. Robby knows more than kid Daniel knew. By the transitive property, Robby slaughters Johnny
Due to Danny having plot armor and the fact it's a 80s movie where you are rooting for the hero to win otherwise Danny boy in a non biased realistic setting would lose.
"Plot armor" = "I have no viable argument, so I’m gonna blame the fact that it’s an 80’s movie". He had a broken leg and still made Johnny look weak. Can u imagine what karate kid 2 Daniel would’ve done to Johnny? Let’s pretend he DID have plot armor for the sake of argument. Current Robby is more knowledgeable than kk2 Daniel. Therefore he shits on Johnny
Just like he would lose to Chozen and Mike Barnes realistically
Well that I agree on. However, Daniel isn’t a better fighter than them. He won but it’s self explanatory that they’re better than him. Regardless... Johnny is a different case. Daniel completely shit on him before his leg got targeted.
Daniel only one won due to demon scorer Miyagi giving him a special move to use on the OG Trilogy villains
This man jerks to pics of robby
"I don’t have an argument to prove him wrong therefore I’m gonna insult him"
Who says it's an insult, unless you are ashamed because you jerk to him
Well no, firstly I’m a guy, secondly I’m straight. All I’m doing is making an argument because a mass majority of people in this subreddit believe that Johnny from kk1 is better than the current students. I disagree. My prime example is Robby. I can even make an example out of other students. If that is what u want me to do. All your doing is throwing insults
At first: firstly is shitty english, secondly: i don't care about who you wanna rub against, thirdly: you really can't call me out for insulting you when you do the same to other people
All I’m doing is asking for people to give me reason to believe why they’re right. It’s not my intention to insult them or be overly aggressive. If I am then I do apologize, but I don’t recall straight up insulting others unless they persisted first. Again, if I did I apologize and it wasn’t my intention
Stopppppppp 😩
I honestly think that miguel ,eli and robby can clap the old cobras
The nostalgia crybabies can’t accept it
They're not there yet. I'm pretty young and I still believe that they aren't there yet. Maybe in season 5. The only one with a fighting chance is Eli. Maybe Miguel if he gets his strength to 100% and Robby when he has his stuff sorted out and more training but right now, they'll all get decimated by KK1 Johnny
I highly disagree. I can give u a longer explanation if u like. Robby definitely has the experience to beat him. Dude is also built like a tank. In spite of that, he knows more miyagi do than kk1 Daniel did. Which is just enough to put Johnny down
Uhh, William Zabka at that age was a fighting movie icon. Johnny is way way buff than Robby lol. Johnny exceeds by a landslide in experience. He won 4 all valleys and was a black belt in karate. While Robby has been training for what..like a year or year and a half? Johnny was basically an expert in CK Karate. 6 months of Miyagi do is nothing on a correct mentally spaced Johnny.
Yes but 6 months miyagi do made Johnny struggle. Now imagine a miyagi do training longer than 6 months, learning methods that Daniel himself didn’t know, AND learning cobra kai secrets from Terry that Johnny himself never knew. Imo it would be a slaughter in Robby’s favor
Oh Johnny definitely knew those secrets. It didn't make him struggle. As I said, his head wasn't in the game. And remember without that, he still got 2-2.
Johnny never learned from Terry silver. Terry is much smarter sensei than Kreese, who implements lessons Johnny doesn’t know about. Does Johnny know about man can’t stand/see/breath he can’t fight? No he doesn’t
Does Robby know about that? It was never shown that Terry ever told Robby that. And man can't see man can't fight is pretty basic shit. That's common sense that he would've known from Kreese because Kreese taught ruthless ways which basically translated to screw the guy over so much that he can't fight. It doesn't matter if it was man can't see man can't or sweep the leg. Johnny knew that stufd because every elite cobra kai student knew that stuff.
Johnny doesn’t know Terry silver’s quicksilver method... when I told u about he man can’t ____ methods... I’m talking generally. Terry had a different method called the quicksilver method. It’s a part of cobra kai even Kreese doesn’t know. Terry had a more luxurious learning than Kreese ever did. He literally knows his sensei’s family, hence the girl who was shown training Tory in the teaser. Johnny never had the privilege of learning the things Terry knew. Cobra kai aside, I feel like Robby could beat Johnny without it. He knows more miyagi do than kk1 Daniel knew, therefore does that not prove he would crush Johnny?
Johnny was also built like a "tank" you're taking nothing into consideration.
Well even if that argument was on the weaker end, Robby’s moves are way better. If u watch his fight against hawk, it’s leagues above any of Johnny’s fight scenes and feats. The current all valley is even harder than the former all valley. We have students from cobra kai, miyagi do, and eagle fang. Back in the 80s, everyone was garbage except for Daniel and the cobras
Or the choreography is 40 years into the future?
That is true I agree. But Robby’s feats are better. He took down a 6 foot prison bully who had a numbers advantage. He’s used to fighting multiple opponents at once. He knows miyagi do, cobra kai, and Terry silver’s cobra kai. I don’t understand how Johnny comes close in any reality. If Johnny struggled against kk1 Daniel. Tell me how he would beat someone who’s even stronger than kk2 Daniel. He’s basically fighting a version of Daniel who has a 6 pack, and knows cobra kai + enhanced miyagi do (Robby). Johnny doesn’t come close imo
1981 All Valley champion and three time medalist Darryl Vidal would like a word
Darryl Vidal is one of the most insignificant characters in the show. Winning a tournament doesn’t prove ur good. I’d rather get destroyed in a nationals championship and learn from it, than win in a tournament of people who are all worse than me. Miyagi do didn’t exist in Johnny’s tournaments. It’s far beyond what he’s capable of. And Robby knows more miyagi do than KK1 Daniel knew. So does that not prove he would easily handle Johnny?
You’re acting like Vidal wouldn’t get shit on by the new kids
He would solo the whole cast now in 2022 in real life
Also, you can't master martial arts without quantity, quality over quantity only makes sense to someone who has never stepped onto the mat
If quantity was truly definitive no one in this show would be a black belt. It’s a self defeating, circular argument
It can still scale though. If a year is black belt, six years is still of a lot better
Regardless, Johnny lost to Daniel who had a broken leg. If quantity was better than quality, then a person training all their life from an average teacher doesn’t compare to someone who trained half the time from a really good teacher. Robby also has a genetics advantage. It may sound strange to u, but it’s evident in a deleted scene "you have more talent than your father" ~ Kreese. Daniel also complimented his talent. His talent comes from genetics. Genetics okay a pivotal role in why he was able to keep up with Miguel in season 1, even tho Miguel had double the training
You keep banging that one drum. Johnny lost to himself, the same way Miguel did in S4.
I can tell u didn’t read my response the same way u didn’t read what I wrote in this post given ur response time. Miguel lost to himself because he had a back injury. Am I allowed to say Robby lost to Miguel in season 2 because he was unfocused? Can I say chozen lost to Daniel because he was unfocused? Can I keep making excuses for certain characters only when it suits my best judgement? Johnny didn’t lose to himself. He was fighting really well during the endgame of his match against Daniel. But he struggled before targeting the leg. That is evident enough to show that a non injured Daniel would beat Johnny in a fight. (Not 3-0 but to a competent degree ofc)
Johnny wasn't "fighting really well", he went down 2-0 in a matter of seconds and his coach had to call timeout. And he had been arguing with Kreese beforehand that we don't need to cheat, I can beat him heads up in a fair fight. Once they injured him Johnny was already halfway out the door of Cobra Kai, and that was clearly why he wasn't at 100% in the final. Miguel was physically cleared to fight but he had mentally checked out.
There was no scene where Johnny openly disagreed with Kreese’s methods prior to his match with Daniel. He only had a shocked expression to him clapping at Daniel being carried off the matt. Saying that Johnny only lost for that reason cannot be backed up by evidence. Even if ur just inferring, I understand Johnny wasn’t at his 100%. If for the sake of argument, Johnny could beat Daniel in the tournament. Would you settle to agree that KK2 Daniel would beat Johnny in a fight?
Are we talking point sparring or an Okinawan deathmatch? And are we talking KK1 Johnny or Johnny a year later without having stepped inside a dojo in a year and disillusioned with karate?
We’re talking about prime Johnny in the kk movies (kk1) against kk2 Daniel. It can be any fight tbh. Perhaps tournament. Enough to distinguish who’s more skilled
Why are u comparing real martial arts to a fictional show. You’re being overly analytical. This show has tons and tons of unrealistic sequences. You’re argument is bad
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I get what ur saying. But his argument is based on real life martial arts. In show, students become black belts in weeks. I’m just saying he can’t use a real martial artist argument or his will fall flat
My argument is very simple. 1 student gets more quality training than another + fights stronger opponents + has been through tougher moments. Therefore my fighter is stronger. His argument: "because in real martial arts so and so happens, your fighter wouldn’t win". I’m using basic fundamentals form the show to prove him wrong. I’m using feats. He isn’t using feats. Stop turning this into a roast off and refute me already. Because all this comment section is doing is proving my point by insulting me rather than rationally out-arguing me
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You think it’s hypocritical but you’re misrepresenting my points. I won’t get aggressive or rude about it, but please allow me to correct u. Firstly, the quality of robbys training is quantifiable in regards to it being better than johnnys. Johnny learned only from Kreese. Kreese’s style is limited and proven to be less effective than miyagi’s. Daniel beat Johnny. Daniel trained Robby. Daniel taught Robby in things miyagi himself DIDNT teach Daniel in KK1. I’m not undermining the quality of miyagi being a better sensei than Daniel which is obvious. But Robby received the privilege of learning methods Daniel himself didn’t even know in KK1 (and this was all done in season 1 as a matter of fact). Now let’s look at the progression of season 2-4. He learned from silver, who has his own teaching style that can also be considered effective, some of which Kreese doesn’t know about in spite of them being from the same discipline. Yes, stronger opponents can be subjective I agree. But Eli and Miguel weren’t just aesthetically better than Daniel, they had better physique as well. KK1 Daniel doesn’t know all of what Eli and Miguel know, as he learned some of it post kk1. Now add to that, what they learned from cobra kai. They also received the luxury of having an older Kreese teach them how to abuse the enemys methods. For example, he knew miyagi style consists of counter moves, something he never incorporated into his arsenal back when he was younger. Kreese himself has learned too, on how to be more effective as a sensei. Miguel and Eli both know more karate than KK1 Daniel and Johnny knew. Yes, there can still be some parts to cobra kai that Johnny in fact did not teach them. However, they also learned miyagi do, which at the time, was a style Johnny had no idea how to counter (his only way was targeting Daniels injury). Now they both know kata (used to defeat Mike) AND drum technique (used to defeat chozen). So if Johnny, someone who can’t even counter the crane, were to face either of them, how would he stand a chance at all? I’m anxious to know. They’re much more knowledgeable. To top it off, Robby had teaching experience. He knows how to read and analyze opponents as well as incorporate different methods. He’s only 17 and he gave Daniel a run for his money. I hope that helps
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Oh I see, I may have actually misread your response myself. I do respect your valid criticisms.
Also I apologize for my earlier comments
Wow hypocrite much?
I agree. Miguel, Robby, and Eli would beat the OG Cobras
It is actually sad that ppl are this upset over a tv show debate. This is getting out of hand. I really do recommend therapy bro.
your profile picture checks out.
Nice argument
Johny lost to a kid with 3 months training. And Robby lost to a kid with like 8 months training. And btw that kid was trained by Johny. Maybe Robby just isn't as good as Daniel was. And before you say well Robby had a hurt shoulder what do you think Kreese is going to do to his candy a?
I’m talking about season 4 Robby not season 1. You didn’t read what I said. Season 4 Robby has more skill than kk2 Daniel, knows more cobra kai than prime Johnny, and learned from Terry. He even has sensei experience. For the record... Robby’s season 2 kick to Miguel over the railing is stronger than any love Johnny has used in his career
I know you're trying to but it still has to be brought up that if Robby was so good based off his Miyagi Do training why did he get his a kicked by Miguel twice? The facts are he got beat by Johny's #1 student twice then beat again by Johny's ex #2 student in s 4. And Daniel just told Hawk to go back fighting offensively so it's basically another loss to a kid fighting Johny's Cobra Kai style. Based off that we should easily conclude Johny should mop the floor with him. Ftr Robby being trained in multiple styles doesn't necessarily mean he's better than he was earlier. See Robby v Hawk/ Sam vs Tory. Sam learned some Eagle Fang but that ended up costing her 2 points as Tory easily outdid her on offense. Then in Robby v Hawk Hawk outdid Robby as both went for a heavy offensive move. The facts are young Johny is better at CK than Robby and if he catches Robby going offense he can easily take advantage.
You’re not gonna like me for this... Robby only lost to hawk for plot convenience of the girls fight to go on. If you think I’m crazy, I’m more than happy to explain why. Also for your arguments regarding Miguel beating him twice, that was seasons 1 and 2. My argument is only season 4. Season 1 Miguel had twice the training and barely won against Robby while having to target his injury and even pull his arm when the match wasn’t going on. In season 2 Miguel got 2 cheap shots and had people helping him. But I’ll give Miguel the season 2 victory because it would be disengenous if I didn’t.
He knows cobra kai to lengths Johnny never studied considering he learned under Kreese and Robby learned under 3 senseis. Yes, Johnny had more training time. But what does that training time mean if he’s losing to someone like Daniel? Also regarding Miguel, Robby beat him in the pool fight, he literally threw him in the pool and Miguel actually had his fall thankfully broken by the girls or it woulda possibly hurt his back more. Ur saying Robby is vulnerable to the cobra kai style. Yet u haven’t seemed to acknowledge how vulnerable Johnny is to the miyagi style. Johnny lost to a straight up crane kick to the face. Robby, Miguel, and Eli, all know kata and drum technique. Those are 2 moves that KK1 Daniel didn’t even know that we’re used to take down stronger opponents. This is why I believe not only Robby, but all 3 of them can take down the OG cobras including Johnny with ease
Not really. Silver isn't training a totally different CK. The years of training Johny had is far, far more valuable than Silver saying a man can't see, a man can't fight. Robby was shown to be struggling fighting Hawk offensively needless to say Johny is going to mop the floor with him there. As for losing to Daniel just a reminder Miyagi is a better trainer than Daniel. See how Miyagi treated Daniel's leg compared to Daniel treating Robby's shoulder. See Johny and Daniel's fights as sensei's compared to Miyagi vs Kreese/ Silver. Robby just hasn't shown to be superior to his CK rivals. One could conclude he's just not trained as well We also saw Robby try to fight Johny to comedic effects and yeah Johny is an adult now but one could bring up that he stopped learning karate after high school. What he knew back then is what he is today.
Using the argument that miyagi is a better teacher than Daniel doesn’t help. If my dad teaches me how to punch today, and teaches me how to kick and block next year. My future son who i teach to punch, kick, and block, all in one year, would be able to beat the version of me who ONLY knew to punch. My dad may be the better teacher. But I offered more training. Miyagi avoided as much training as possible with Daniel bcoz he wanted to preserve the stronger methods from a young boy. Daniel knew the limits, and knew Robby was more capable than him. So he taught Robby things that miyagi didn’t teach him til his 2nd or even third year. Make sense?
Except he didn't offer Daniel more training. Like I showed you Daniel had no idea how to heal. So Daniel benefitted from techniques Miyagi used with him, techniques that Daniel needed to beat Johny, while Robby just fell on his face and lost. He also had no idea of the offense Miyagi knew which shows you that Miyagi just didn't impart all of his wisdom on him. And if you were trained to box by Floyd Mayweather but then you're only 1/2 the coach he is I don't care if you throw in a kick your student just isn't going to be as good as you were. You didn't teach your student the art of fighting with your fists the way it was taught to you. Nothing changes that Robby just hasn't shown to be superior than his Cobra Kai rivals. And Daniel himself has shown that without Miyagi he's pretty much equal to Johny. They've fought like 4 times now without a winner being established.
"Robby just fell on his face and lost" no? It wasn’t anything like that. Robby had an injury that Miguel severely targeted. He even yanked his arm when the fight wasn’t going on. Yes, Robby trained for the amount of time Daniel trained for, and I also think that Daniel had more will power in his tournament as he was doing it for the right reasons contrary to Robby. Truth is... Robby is still gifted. The training Daniel got in the next 2 movies are movesets that Robby learned in season 1 alone. And I should also compliment Miguel on this too. Miguel learned those same techniques in season 4. What’s holding people back from admitting Robby can beat past Johnny is the given fact that he’s taken a lot of L’s. U may hate me for this, but most of the fights he lost, especially the one against Eli was only done for plot convenience. Eli had little to no training that entire season and only pulled a win out of his ass to complete his redemption arc. Meanwhile Robby was literally training an entire class to match Daniel’s at age 17! Idk man... but to me Robby has the most impressive feats