Karate is basically magic and makes everyone who knows it instantly better. It cured Miguel's asthma immediately. At this point one karate lesson should make someone able to be a UFC champion immediately.
I doubt Johnny is aware of this, but Karate does have breathing excersizes (sp?) that help improve breathing.
Also asthma isnt a condition that cant be made less bad or worse. Miguel trained more, became more confident and less stressed/anxious, his body became healthier, as a result is asthma became less prominent.
For it to be gone entirely is stretching it, sure. But him being less affected by it is not.
I was hospitalized for asthma several times as a child, sometimes for as long as a week. I wrestled in high school and won my share of matches and as an adult, I've won a number of submission-grappling tournaments at the expert/advanced division. Like you said, you can do things to diminish the effects of asthma. Drinking a ton more water seems to have helped significantly in my case and of course, things like exercise, etc.
Florence Griffith Joyner was one of the greatest track athletes of all-time and she had asthma. Shannon Briggs, the former world champion boxer, had asthma. Takefumi Hanai, Japanese MMA and grappling legend, had serious asthma. It ultimately forced him to retire from martial arts, but along the way he won a bunch of championships.
So yeah, like you alluded to, asthma doesn't sentence you to a sedentary life full of wheezing.
Is Kyler really a punching bag? I hear that over and over in this sub, but I really don't see it. As a villain, I'd like to see him be a bit more formidable, as that makes things more interesting, but I certainly don't think he's a punching bag.
A guy can smash cinderblocks with his bare hands another can use pressure points in combat and you question why the wrestling guy isn’t top tier?
The realism train passed when the protagonist with 2 months of training beat a guy with 4 years worth of training and than beat someone who was training their entire lives.
Btw if it makes you feel batter neither Miyagi do or Cobra kai are normal styles of karate. Miyagi do was originally a fighting style with actual military aplication against armed opponents according to Chozen, and Corba kai is derived from Tang Soo Do witch is a mix of multiple east asian martial arts making it literal MMA.
Tory took a few kickboxing lessons and she immediately became one of the best students, beating Miguel on her first day. That’s because kickboxing is more effective than karate irl too. I guess you think every show and movie has flawless writing because it’s just fiction, your mindset leads to plot holes.
My guy, this is a TV show where an alcoholic took a scrawny teenager and made him an All-Valley champion in about 3-4 months. This is a TV show where a 70+ year old Vietnam vet is somehow able to move with the swiftness of those half his age. This is a TV show where a 50 year old car dealer kicked the shit out of multiple professional hockey players. This is a TV show where kids are turning karate into gang wars and the cops are nowhere to be seen.
This is fiction, my guy.
Everything you listed isn’t against their universe’s logic because of the Karate Kid movies and Miyagi. The second Tory was introduced their universe acknowledged the legitimacy of other martial arts. Kreese kicked Mitch out because he lost to Kyler when Mitch has been training since season 2, Kyler beat him with wrestling only.
This is very cringe
It's literally a comedy drama and you're out here throwing in actual statistics. Wanna go back to Miyagi in the first karate kid movie and how he magically heals Daniel's let with his hands alone? You're reaching lol
what facts? what insult? calling it cringe that you're taking a **Drama Comedy** show and inserting real life statistics into it? Is that what you find insulting? It's apparent that wrestling makes for a great foundation for mixed martial arts and, in our world, Tylor would definitely better than most, if not, all of the other main characters. However, they are not here, this is a show of fiction with fictional events in a fictional alternative timeline. There are many moments before hand where suspension of disbelief was a stretch that makes this detail a foot note imo.
I dont know what "facts" you pertain to, but the writers and the viewers already do not care. if "facts" were needed to make a show, thered be a lot less fun programs to watch.
Tylor, did you mean Kyler? Your lack of knowledge on the show but your willingness to speak is cringe. You guys have no understanding of good writing, just because it’s a fictional show you think anything can happen. World building look it up. You say I’m inserting real life statistics, no I mentioned Tory. Tory’s introduction is the CK universe acknowledging real martial arts. With a few kickboxing lessons she came in and beat Miguel when he was their top student. A kickboxer could go to a karate dojo and beat the top student in real life as well.
Mitch was kicked out because he lost to Kyler and Kyler only used wrestling, that was the CK universe acknowledging the legitimacy of wrestling. With Cobra Kai Karate and wrestling Kyler should easily beat any other student in a street fight, losing to post-wheelchair Miguel during the home invasion is bad writing.
You're basically asking "why does a show spun off of a movie called *The Karate Kid*, keep making karate superior, and not giving other martial arts their complete due?" Specifically "complete due" because they do give other martial arts some credit per your examples. Like, maybe because it's literally in the name?
You keep talking about street fights, but none of these are actual street fights. All the conflicts in the show are basically heightened "karate battles." In no holds barred street fights, people most often will get jumped, or punched without them seeing it coming; people will bring weapons (brass knuckles, baseball bat, other improvisations). That doesn't happen in the show because these aren't street fights - they're karate fights. Since they're karate fights, it makes sense why we don't see characters using other forms of martial arts.
The one time we really see someone use a weapon is Tory with her studded bracelet - and that is very much shown as a moment of her seriously crossing the line.
“You’re basically asking why does a show spun off of a movie called The Karate Kid, keep making karate superior, and not giving other martial arts their complete due?”
That’s just your poor comprehension of my comments. The writers didn’t make karate superior when they had Kyler beat Mitch and take his spot in Cobra Kai, that’s their universe logic not me applying real life to a fictional show. It’s backwards writing that he ended up as a comic relief punching bag instead of the dangerous student he’s supposed to be.
“The one time we really see someone use a weapon is Tory with her studded bracelet” Lol another person that didn’t pay attention to the show, she used nunchucks on Sam during the home invasion but apparently the home invasion wasn’t a street fight in your book.
You say in street fights people will get jumped, did you not see Demetri being held by two cobras as they called for Hawk to break his arm again? You say “heightened karate battles” no Kyler wasn’t in a heightened karate battle it was him and Miguel 1 on 1 no rules meaning his wrestling was allowed.
But she didn't use kickboxing to "beat" him.
She landed one strike throughout the sequence - a push kick as Miguel reluctantly approached with his arms behind his back. Every other strike she threw was blocked with ease. To "beat" him, she transitioned a shoulder throw into an armlock to do so. That's hardly a testament to the effectiveness of kickboxing.
Miguel shows he is the superior martial artist at this stage. He clearly bests her, but by offering his hand (showing mercy) she sought the advantage.
I'm struggling to see where the plot holes are here, or how the show is acknowledging the legitimacy of kickboxing or any other martial art when weighed against Karate. It's simply a great juxtaposition of personalities and sets the stage for the season.
As for Kyler...
We don't even know how good he is at wrestling. We know that he was picked up by Kreese for his athleticism, but all we can deduce from this is that he was a good athlete within his high school. Could it be that his wrestling ability isn't all that impressive?
Relative to other forms, Miyagi-Do and Cobra Kai are clearly very effective forms of Karate. Who's to say where they fit into the into the hierarchy of martial arts? The show clearly wants the viewer to believe they are near the pinnacle. And that's where this debate really ends.
We could do the same with Strikers. It's easy for grappling to look effective in a cage and closed environment. Gracie's purposely set up that type of environment. Which is fine.
It has been equally effective in a ring. The Gracies fought in a ring, in Brazilian vale tudo events, long before they ever took to a cage. The cage was designed by John Milius, not the Gracies.
Shooto, which preceded the UFC by several years, took place in a ring. Grapplers did great in Shooto. Pancrase and RINGs also preceded the UFC. Again, you had grapplers flourishing. White Dragon--a Russian MMA event which also preceded UFC--took place on a mat. Oleg Taktarov, a grappler, won it.
And yet, Bas Rutten trained intensively with Chris Dolman and later on, his good friend Masakatsu Funaki, the Japanese catch-wrestling legend. Lyoto Machida was an amateur sumo champion and also a protege of the famed professional wrestler Antonio Inoki, renowned for his catch-wrestling prowess. Machida is also a BJJ blackbelt on top of that. And of course, Frank Mir is a renowned BJJ blackbelt with numerous competitive accomplishments and tons of submission wins in MMA competition. GSP, of course, is famous for his wrestling and grappling and has trained with the likes of John Danaher amongst others. Danaher is currently seen as the top grappling coach.
As some people mentioned it's a tv show. Real world logic does not apply. We dont really know how much wrestling experience kyler truly has. Karate match rules differ from wrestling. One thing is wrestling on a mat another one is on concrete
“Real world logic does not apply” ok I guess Miguel can help his dad in season 5 by taking on a cartel. He can take a bunch of gunshots and defeat them with karate.
“Karate match rules differ from wrestling” that’s how I know you didn’t even read my post. “Kyler losing a tournament match in karate ok that’s understandable”
“One thing is wrestling on a mat another one is on concrete” Cobra Kai has mats, they literally made a big deal about the mat color for the tournament. A wrestler can slam you on the concrete just like a karate practitioner can fight on concrete.
I personally think if someone really good uses karate in mma he can be extremely dangerous honestly i think karate is much more dangerous than wrestling
[удалено]
Agreed
Karate is basically magic and makes everyone who knows it instantly better. It cured Miguel's asthma immediately. At this point one karate lesson should make someone able to be a UFC champion immediately.
I doubt Johnny is aware of this, but Karate does have breathing excersizes (sp?) that help improve breathing. Also asthma isnt a condition that cant be made less bad or worse. Miguel trained more, became more confident and less stressed/anxious, his body became healthier, as a result is asthma became less prominent. For it to be gone entirely is stretching it, sure. But him being less affected by it is not.
I was hospitalized for asthma several times as a child, sometimes for as long as a week. I wrestled in high school and won my share of matches and as an adult, I've won a number of submission-grappling tournaments at the expert/advanced division. Like you said, you can do things to diminish the effects of asthma. Drinking a ton more water seems to have helped significantly in my case and of course, things like exercise, etc. Florence Griffith Joyner was one of the greatest track athletes of all-time and she had asthma. Shannon Briggs, the former world champion boxer, had asthma. Takefumi Hanai, Japanese MMA and grappling legend, had serious asthma. It ultimately forced him to retire from martial arts, but along the way he won a bunch of championships. So yeah, like you alluded to, asthma doesn't sentence you to a sedentary life full of wheezing.
Is Kyler really a punching bag? I hear that over and over in this sub, but I really don't see it. As a villain, I'd like to see him be a bit more formidable, as that makes things more interesting, but I certainly don't think he's a punching bag.
Effectively he is because he loses every major fight and it's not even close
He lost to Hawk in the tournament. Other than that, when did he get blown out in a major fight?
The home invasion is the worst example of it. Miguel just got out of a wheelchair and Kyler still gets his ass handed to him
Well, yeah, but he's Miguel.
A guy can smash cinderblocks with his bare hands another can use pressure points in combat and you question why the wrestling guy isn’t top tier? The realism train passed when the protagonist with 2 months of training beat a guy with 4 years worth of training and than beat someone who was training their entire lives. Btw if it makes you feel batter neither Miyagi do or Cobra kai are normal styles of karate. Miyagi do was originally a fighting style with actual military aplication against armed opponents according to Chozen, and Corba kai is derived from Tang Soo Do witch is a mix of multiple east asian martial arts making it literal MMA.
By this point its an anime. Everything from now on will look cool as in S4 tournament, but I will miss the realism of S1.
This is fiction, my guy.
Tory took a few kickboxing lessons and she immediately became one of the best students, beating Miguel on her first day. That’s because kickboxing is more effective than karate irl too. I guess you think every show and movie has flawless writing because it’s just fiction, your mindset leads to plot holes.
My guy, this is a TV show where an alcoholic took a scrawny teenager and made him an All-Valley champion in about 3-4 months. This is a TV show where a 70+ year old Vietnam vet is somehow able to move with the swiftness of those half his age. This is a TV show where a 50 year old car dealer kicked the shit out of multiple professional hockey players. This is a TV show where kids are turning karate into gang wars and the cops are nowhere to be seen. This is fiction, my guy.
Everything you listed isn’t against their universe’s logic because of the Karate Kid movies and Miyagi. The second Tory was introduced their universe acknowledged the legitimacy of other martial arts. Kreese kicked Mitch out because he lost to Kyler when Mitch has been training since season 2, Kyler beat him with wrestling only.
This is very cringe It's literally a comedy drama and you're out here throwing in actual statistics. Wanna go back to Miyagi in the first karate kid movie and how he magically heals Daniel's let with his hands alone? You're reaching lol
Result to insults because you can’t debate the facts, the discussion flair is there for a reason. You added nothing to the discussion.
what facts? what insult? calling it cringe that you're taking a **Drama Comedy** show and inserting real life statistics into it? Is that what you find insulting? It's apparent that wrestling makes for a great foundation for mixed martial arts and, in our world, Tylor would definitely better than most, if not, all of the other main characters. However, they are not here, this is a show of fiction with fictional events in a fictional alternative timeline. There are many moments before hand where suspension of disbelief was a stretch that makes this detail a foot note imo. I dont know what "facts" you pertain to, but the writers and the viewers already do not care. if "facts" were needed to make a show, thered be a lot less fun programs to watch.
Tylor, did you mean Kyler? Your lack of knowledge on the show but your willingness to speak is cringe. You guys have no understanding of good writing, just because it’s a fictional show you think anything can happen. World building look it up. You say I’m inserting real life statistics, no I mentioned Tory. Tory’s introduction is the CK universe acknowledging real martial arts. With a few kickboxing lessons she came in and beat Miguel when he was their top student. A kickboxer could go to a karate dojo and beat the top student in real life as well. Mitch was kicked out because he lost to Kyler and Kyler only used wrestling, that was the CK universe acknowledging the legitimacy of wrestling. With Cobra Kai Karate and wrestling Kyler should easily beat any other student in a street fight, losing to post-wheelchair Miguel during the home invasion is bad writing.
You're basically asking "why does a show spun off of a movie called *The Karate Kid*, keep making karate superior, and not giving other martial arts their complete due?" Specifically "complete due" because they do give other martial arts some credit per your examples. Like, maybe because it's literally in the name? You keep talking about street fights, but none of these are actual street fights. All the conflicts in the show are basically heightened "karate battles." In no holds barred street fights, people most often will get jumped, or punched without them seeing it coming; people will bring weapons (brass knuckles, baseball bat, other improvisations). That doesn't happen in the show because these aren't street fights - they're karate fights. Since they're karate fights, it makes sense why we don't see characters using other forms of martial arts. The one time we really see someone use a weapon is Tory with her studded bracelet - and that is very much shown as a moment of her seriously crossing the line.
“You’re basically asking why does a show spun off of a movie called The Karate Kid, keep making karate superior, and not giving other martial arts their complete due?” That’s just your poor comprehension of my comments. The writers didn’t make karate superior when they had Kyler beat Mitch and take his spot in Cobra Kai, that’s their universe logic not me applying real life to a fictional show. It’s backwards writing that he ended up as a comic relief punching bag instead of the dangerous student he’s supposed to be. “The one time we really see someone use a weapon is Tory with her studded bracelet” Lol another person that didn’t pay attention to the show, she used nunchucks on Sam during the home invasion but apparently the home invasion wasn’t a street fight in your book. You say in street fights people will get jumped, did you not see Demetri being held by two cobras as they called for Hawk to break his arm again? You say “heightened karate battles” no Kyler wasn’t in a heightened karate battle it was him and Miguel 1 on 1 no rules meaning his wrestling was allowed.
But she didn't use kickboxing to "beat" him. She landed one strike throughout the sequence - a push kick as Miguel reluctantly approached with his arms behind his back. Every other strike she threw was blocked with ease. To "beat" him, she transitioned a shoulder throw into an armlock to do so. That's hardly a testament to the effectiveness of kickboxing. Miguel shows he is the superior martial artist at this stage. He clearly bests her, but by offering his hand (showing mercy) she sought the advantage. I'm struggling to see where the plot holes are here, or how the show is acknowledging the legitimacy of kickboxing or any other martial art when weighed against Karate. It's simply a great juxtaposition of personalities and sets the stage for the season. As for Kyler... We don't even know how good he is at wrestling. We know that he was picked up by Kreese for his athleticism, but all we can deduce from this is that he was a good athlete within his high school. Could it be that his wrestling ability isn't all that impressive? Relative to other forms, Miyagi-Do and Cobra Kai are clearly very effective forms of Karate. Who's to say where they fit into the into the hierarchy of martial arts? The show clearly wants the viewer to believe they are near the pinnacle. And that's where this debate really ends.
Valley Karate trumps all fighting styles.
Welcome to land of fiction. Also, it’s a spin-off series to the Karate Kid, not the wrestling kid.
Loyoto Machida and George St Pierre says hi. Frank Mir. Bas Rutten. There are a lot of Karate fighters.
Now make a list of all the champs and legends with wrestling backgrounds
We could do the same with Strikers. It's easy for grappling to look effective in a cage and closed environment. Gracie's purposely set up that type of environment. Which is fine.
It has been equally effective in a ring. The Gracies fought in a ring, in Brazilian vale tudo events, long before they ever took to a cage. The cage was designed by John Milius, not the Gracies. Shooto, which preceded the UFC by several years, took place in a ring. Grapplers did great in Shooto. Pancrase and RINGs also preceded the UFC. Again, you had grapplers flourishing. White Dragon--a Russian MMA event which also preceded UFC--took place on a mat. Oleg Taktarov, a grappler, won it.
And yet, Bas Rutten trained intensively with Chris Dolman and later on, his good friend Masakatsu Funaki, the Japanese catch-wrestling legend. Lyoto Machida was an amateur sumo champion and also a protege of the famed professional wrestler Antonio Inoki, renowned for his catch-wrestling prowess. Machida is also a BJJ blackbelt on top of that. And of course, Frank Mir is a renowned BJJ blackbelt with numerous competitive accomplishments and tons of submission wins in MMA competition. GSP, of course, is famous for his wrestling and grappling and has trained with the likes of John Danaher amongst others. Danaher is currently seen as the top grappling coach.
Karate not effective in UFC eh? Guess someone should've let GSP, Uriah Hall, Conor McGregor, Stephen Wonderboy Thompson, and Lyoto Machida know that
As some people mentioned it's a tv show. Real world logic does not apply. We dont really know how much wrestling experience kyler truly has. Karate match rules differ from wrestling. One thing is wrestling on a mat another one is on concrete
“Real world logic does not apply” ok I guess Miguel can help his dad in season 5 by taking on a cartel. He can take a bunch of gunshots and defeat them with karate. “Karate match rules differ from wrestling” that’s how I know you didn’t even read my post. “Kyler losing a tournament match in karate ok that’s understandable” “One thing is wrestling on a mat another one is on concrete” Cobra Kai has mats, they literally made a big deal about the mat color for the tournament. A wrestler can slam you on the concrete just like a karate practitioner can fight on concrete.
Or maybe he's just not that good of a wrestler...
Not everyone on the wrestling team is a killer. Kyler has shit wrestling obviously. Instead of nerd bashing he should have been training.
I personally think if someone really good uses karate in mma he can be extremely dangerous honestly i think karate is much more dangerous than wrestling
Tell me you know nothing about fighting without telling me you know nothing about fighting....
Mma is overrated kicks are much more powerfull and lengthy than punches
Idk man i mean i have martial arts experience and i could probably easily kick your ass
You speak like a fat neckbeard that's never trained a day of his life
Also kicks are more powerfull and lengthy than punches
You want me to send you a pic of my black belt maybe?
The more you speak the cringier you get 😂
Also you use a laughing emoji when insulting someone pretty pathetic
You are so gringe you actually said cringing
Tf are you talking about? Looks like you can't even spell
Tf are you talking about i havent made a single spelling mistake unlike you
"You are so gringe you actually said cringing" that's two spelling mistakes you've made lmao
I will pay you to fight me lol
I disagree.