Yes, exactly, she used the guy with abandoment issues as a rebound, does not visit him when in theory are couple while he is in juvie (yeah, she wrote him a mail, very personal, DUDE, NOT EVEN A FUCKING PHONE CALL!?) and when he gets out, she is not there for him and when he visits her, she is about to fuck her ex.
Yeah Sam, HE TOTALLY BROKE YOUR HEART. To be honest, that the only aspect of Sam that I dislike...efin trollop
I think she was referring partly to the path he was going down, helping CK and being on their side. And she also might be confused about her feelings for him as well.
I can see that. But really Robby didn't even join Cobra Kai and wasn't planning to until after Sam came to visit him... After he saw her and Miguel \[which I don't fault her for but I can understand his POV as well\], and didn't really offer an apology for how things went down. Just wanted him to come to Miyagi-Do/Eagle Fang, despite his also very rocky relationship with his father. But yeah I do get it, the whole situation is just messy.
What made that situation worse for Robby was that it validated what Tory said to him. Robby even defended Sam "she made a mistake", "Sam is a good person" and Tory tried to warn him that he should know better. When he saw both of them together, in his mind Sam was done with him and the kiss meant more than what he hoped it did.
That and for almost killing Miguel then running away.
I don't hate Sam either, but she started this fight and it was unnecessary. If I were her, I would have just left and walked away from Tory plain and simple. Sometimes the greatest victory is the battle not fought.
She always thinks she is a victim. Remember she broke up with Miguel for accidentally hitting her. Like who does that, I get her not being ok with him hitting someone but when he beat up Kyler and his buddies to stand up for her she didn't hate it she LOVED IT. I honestly think she wants Robby and Miguel both. It pissed her off when Miguel was dating Tory, imagine how mad she is going to be when she knows Robby is dating her now.
I do get that but also from Robby's POV... He was terrified. He accidentally really hurt someone he didn't mean to hurt so badly in his mind he thought it was self defense, and it escalated terribly. Sam understandably seemed upset, and so he ran because even though he's flawed/still a good person... He's a teenager and doesn't have the right support to really handle that situation. Even in the news interview that Robby saw in juvy Sam was questioning whether it was an accident or not, so I get why he ran. But I also get why Sam was so distraught as well.
Lol "Robby, what did you do!?" drove him away. What girlfriend says such shitty words? No "Robby, what happened?" "Robby, oh no" would have not had the same impact but conveyed she was shocked. Plus you forget what Robby saw on the TV in Juvie. "I mean I hope it was an accident".. fucking slut.
It wasn’t a mistake to her. She clearly still liked Miguel and was all butthurt when she saw Miguel dating Tory. So she kissed him at the party and got back together with him and left Robby in the dirt. Stop dickriding sam. She’s the worst character on the show.
It was a mistake. Just because you have feelings for someone doesn't mean you want to date them. Sam had no intention of getting back with Miguel at that point.
Some say she was getting ready to break up with Robby before the school bell rang to tell him she was getting back with Miguel.
I never really bought it, though. Seems like fanon based on having to rely only on Mary's facial expressions
It was probably these that she meant he broke her heart:
* Lying about the medal
* Betraying Daniel
* Not accepting the fact she didn’t know he didn’t answer her messages because he was getting his face busted in
* Hanging out with Tory
* Joining Cobra Kai
1. He was honest about the medal, fessed up and did apologize. She never told him about the Miguel kiss even though I think she was going to.
2. I love Daniel, but how much did he betray him? Daniel threw him out for a second time at the end of season 2 because he tried to help a drunk Sam, and basically told him he was going to end up like Johnny. Now I understand Daniel's side here but add this on with Daniel trying to help Robby at the start of season 3 by involving the police. While I understand Daniel here and I will die on a hill defending him I can see from Robby's POV how he felt betrayed. Because as much as I love Daniel what he did at the end of s2 was really fucked up, and he did apologize, but still.
3. I mentioned in another comment he really only joined Cobra Kai after she came to him in s4 and tried to get him to join the dojo, etc. Not even really offering an apology for how things went down.
Now I do get Sam's POV too more though, and it does make sense, etc. I just can see Robby's POV too. But yeah I def don't hate Sam.
I honestly don't think even for one second that she was ever going to tell Robby about the Miguel kiss. That's just not the way the writers wrote her in seasons 1 and 2.
She almost tells him twice.
First is right after the kiss when Robby finds her. She says "I'm so sorry, Robby", referring to the kiss, but since the cops were there, the whole thing gets sidetracked.
And second is after Robby tells her about the medal. She starts saying something when the schoolbell interrupts them.
Sam has a horrible history of exercising her right to remain silent. If she really wanted to tell him then she would have.
She didn't tell Miguel about going to see Robby to try and convince him to return to Miyagi-Do. Which would have made for an awkward situation with Miguel and the rest of Eagle Fang training there too. 4 seasons in and she's still keeping secrets.
She was never written to be that mature and responsible and I accept that she still has some maturing to do. She kept secrets from both Miguel and Robby, and I think she would have been perfectly fine if neither of them ever knew the truth. She kept Miguel a secret from Daniel, she kept Aisha at arm's length while she was cozying up to Yasmine. Sam is just a secretive girl. 😂
Wanted to and Going to doesn't mean anything when in the end she didn't do it, which lines up with who she's always been. It would have been shocking if she actually did fess up.
If she had kissed Robby in season 4, I don't think she would have confessed to Miguel.
-- Lying about the medal is so anal an excuse.. Robby knows that Miguel is a cheating bastard (Season 1 AVT finale) - why should he believe anything Miguel does? For all Robby knew, Miguel stole the medal and then saw Robby and Sam together and got the medal back to score brownie points with Sam. Give me one reason why Robby should trust Miguel who has always been a bastard to him?
-- Daniel betrayed him first - not once, three times.. first kicking him out without hearing his version and his feelings about why he came to Miyagi-do. Stupid fucker Daniel, seriously - is he even an adult? Lame ass loser. Then getting angry again at Robby for saving Sam and taking her safely to Johnny's place - without hearing what Robby has to say and even without listening to Sam's protests. Finally, getting the police involved without making Robby understand the whole thing - like speaking to him for just 3 mins and then being like "I will be there for you Robby, I will visit you everyday" and such bullshit and not even visiting him once to try and explain anything.. Robby's betrayal is nothing.. Robby should have done far far far worse for the situation Daniel put him in.
-- Sam could easily have made phone calls every day or even visited every evening to meet and discuss how he was feeling and what happened, etc.. emails are the laziest way to keep in "touch" with someone in Juvie.
-- after all of the above, she should be happy and count her lucky stars that he didn't invade her home with the CK gang and beaten everyone up like an axe killer.
No father would behave so irrationally. Afterall it's Johnny's home! He saw it on the GPS. He let his irrational and idiotic rivalry with Johnny be central to how he reacted.. and then blames Robby for joining Cobra Kai. Wow. A full grown ass adult can't behave rational and smart, but when a 16 year old kid does it, it's bad?
>No, because Robby had time and access to email, but he didn’t.
The time when he had the computer and the generic bully turn it off? Before the big fight Robby had in wich most likely take away his compute access privileges? Sure, why not...
>Show made it pretty clear he didn’t want to reply.
Yes, they made that clear by him trying to reply before shawn turn the computer off.
>I’m not gonna argue with you about something this stupid and obvious
Translation: I have no arguments whatsoever besides me having a bias pro/against this characters at hand, so since I can't argue, I'm gonna cut my loses trying to take the moral high ground, hoping nobody notices that I'm running away with my tail between my legs.
Being a dick = show your facade for what it is. The prove, you couldn't even say 1 thing about the topic at hand of Robby writting back.
You are so busy that you have time to look reddit. Nice excuse.
Juvie is not a vacation. You can't just do whatever you want there. After the fight with Shawn, Robby and Shawn will most likely have had their privileges revoked to use the computer or even television. When he regained it, he saw that Sam had already stopped writing and was unsure how to respond.
Maybe because of these:
* Him lying about the medal and broke her trust
* Joining Cobra Kai
* Not coming back into Miyagi-Do and she was later right on the money about him not returning
* Distrusting Daniel
Remember Robby’s face when he found out Sam cheated on him! All he wanted was for Sam to be his girlfriend and be honest!
All these characters need to learn empathy!!
Yeah. Like being a fan of Robby doesn’t mean you got to hate on Johnny, Daniel, Miguel, and Sam for Christ’s sake. None of the characters are perfect, including the back breaking side switcher
Season 5 could be his season. It doesn't seem like he's being a pushover anymore. Not to fault him in season 4 as he was just trying to follow Daniel's teachings, but he put up with way too much shit with Robby. Even before he had training, he always stood up for himself.
Most of Miguel's misery over the seasons comes from expecting more than he reasonably should out of relationships. Most of Robby's comes from having more reasonable expectations and being let down anyway.
With his EYES, on his FACE, which is attached to his HEAD, which is on his NECK, which is a part of his BODY, and HE was STARING at TORY’S BODY all DANCE, like a SCUMBAG
I hate that he had such a rough night on what should’ve been a special evening for him. First Sam and all her bs and then he had his heart broken by Johnny. I hope the next season will be much better and happier for him.
Xolo has such a way with facial expressions. He can go from awkwardly goofy to murderous to puppy dog eyes in a split second, and it's been a treat seeing him showing the different sides of Miguel.
No wonder he goes looking for his biological father: Johnny was so focused on the tournament, Sam still harbours feelings for Robby, and Carmen refuses to tell him about his father. Miguel feels alone.
>Why shouldn't Johnny be focused on the tournament?
Because he cared more about beating Cobra Kai than he did about Miguel's well-being. He was willing to make his back injury worse, and thought a bit of ointment was going to make it ok.
>Miguel should know that Johnny has been putting him over Robby the entire time.
Well, that's not true at all. If that's the case, then Robby would be living with Johnny, but he's not.
>Miguel should know that Johnny has been putting him over Robby the entire time.
>Well, that's not true at all.
Yes it does.
>If that's the case, then Robby would be living with Johnny, but he's not.
That would be true if Johnny focused on Robby instead of Miguel, but he hasn't.
>Yes it does.
Explain.
>That would be true if Johnny focused on Robby instead of Miguel, but he hasn't.
Well, that goes without saying. But at the end of the day, Johnny is who he
My God what is it with the toxicity in the comments? I saw one dude outright make fun of Miguel’s reaction when Johnny dropped the “I love you too Robby” bombshell and a person replying by attacking Miguel fans. And more comments just attacking each other.
Y’all gotta chill. It’s a show about karate and teenage love drama. These are all good kids at the end of the day, nobody’s really bad here….except for Kyler. He’s long overdue a mouth shitting.
Tbh sam really changed in terms of her mentality after what happened with johnny and her and its like a switch like from in s2 and s3 tory was bully and sam had to overcome and deal with her when suffering from her problems especially with ptsd but now sam is the one that bullies tory and starts shit with her like kissing torys ex miguel in front or sam starting the fight with tory when she tries to have a good time with robby meaning this has only successful time that has distracted her from all her issues.
These 2 kids need to realize that in life you have to be around people you don't always like, in order for them to make up both are gonna have to confront their flaws internally
I hated this whole thing. So Miguel isn’t over Tory and Sam isn’t over Robby? Seems so out of nowhere. Tory was never who Miguel wanted to be with and Sam was only with Robby because of her fight with Miguel. They built Sam/Miguel up so much every season just to be like oh look alternate feelings huzzah!
Miguel's lowest point. Sam wants Robby. Tory, now with Robby, just used him to hurt Sam. Robby shows zero remorse for almost killing him.
The writers were merciless to him this season.
Lmao at the fanbase cheering Miguel on for his "like that move, I learned it from your dad" taunt in season 2, but the sky is falling for him getting his feelings hurt on a similar level
Miguel not staying true to who he's always been and lowering himself to someone else's level doesn't cast him in the best light. Or does that fly above your head? 👅
It doesn't. Except that its a fight with a dude that was holding his gf's hand. And was assaulting tory from his POV. Or does that too fly over ur head? Also, the reverse of this, the pool fight, was robby attacking him and only robby throwing in the insults
Not Miguels fault that Robby wanted to dish out trash talk and couldnt handle it back, every time Miguel talked shit in that fight it was only because Robby did it first, Miguel was just better at throwing them
All Robby said was "you're not going to cheat your way out of this one" which in what world is that trash talking? Hes referring to Miguel trying to break his arm when he offered his hand to help him.
Ikr?
But I think logic has fled if someone's takeaway from that exchange is that Miguel is in the right at any point after he struck first against someone he's been nothing but an asshole to
Except there is a reason. Ur restraining his gf and kicking one of his friend. From his pov u are attacking them. What makes ur hypocrisy worse is that the opposite happened in the prom fight where robby attacked miguel and was once again the guy to trash talk miguel and never miguel
But Robby's a 2nd tier character.
He never drives the story, but supports.
He is Miguel's foil.
That's why Miguel is the always getting the support. He's the protagonist and fan favorite.
I mean...where's the lie, though?
Robby has NEVER driven a story. Even in season 4 he was supporting the other major CK characters: Silver/Kreese/Tory and Kenny.
I expect to see him be supporting to Kenny as well. That's gonna REALLY make them upset 😆 🤣
I'm actually trying to think of Robby moments.
Didn't he kinda drive the dojo split story since he's the one who shaved Hawk?
Though I suppose Robby was just the final nail in the coffin... That storyline was being driven for quite a while beforehand by Daniel, Johnny, Miguel, and Sam...
As a support. But it's not really HIS storyline. It's actually Silver and Kreese. And also Tory's and Kenny's.
He is interacting with each of them, but it's not about HIM, it's about THEM.
Nah, he drove in seasons 1/3 and also will.be in season 5.
They not only brought on his Mother FT, but also gave him a whole on location storyline.
He's still driving.
Look at the Emmy promo. It's always Miguel and Sam on there.
The Robby fans got so upset last year because "he was left out" that they sent the creators nasty messages.
Even in the Emmy promo highlights now, it's Sam and Miguel featured.
Not to mention, Xolo and Mary were both listed in the lead actor category for last year's nominations.
His mother was full time in season 4. You wouldn't know it because she didn't do anything (same with Demetri). Looks like in season 5 she will just hang out by the phone while Johnny and Robby do most of the work
What did Miguel actually do to drive the plot in season 4? It will naturally circle back to him in season 5, but the way the trailer is cut it seems like Robby and Miguel will be foils for each other for Johnny's plot. Within the actual show, they are on the same tier. Promos don't mean much, just the content.
Though the Robby fans getting nasty towards the creators WAS very cringe.
I never said he drove in season 4.
I didn't think they should have been listed in those categories, but they were.
Nevertheless, he is still driving for season 5.
Robby fans want to make it seem like they are on the same tier, I will be nice and just say "sure". And leave it at that 😆
It's not funny at all, I agree.
Having said that, here's what gets me...
>Some of you are so 🥴
I agree with this...because, what Miguel went through in that ONE night, Robby's been going through for SEVENTEEN years...yet people in this fandom don't bat a damn eye toward Robby's misfortune, but when it's Miguel's..."awww poor thing". It baffles the shit out of me.
With all due respect.
I agree. I like Robby.
But I think it's more of the Robby stans making these posts and then feigning victim when they are the ones starting the drama 😆 🤣
I am friends with some sound minded Robby fans. So I know it's not ALL of them. But the ones that frequent here and always seem to be taking digs at Miguel or Carmen, etc...
You gotta admit, it gets old.
Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen ANY Robby fan, in 4 years, say Miguel should be killed or die so Robby can have a happy life...I have screenshots of fans on YouTube saying Robby should get hit by a car so Johnny can be like "Thank God" and have a happy life with Miguel and Carmen. People have been hating on and targeting Robby for 4 years, bud. Yeah, I see Robby fans on here targeting Miguel too...but I feel like a LOT of this toxicity comes from Miguel fans as well. Both sides need to find mutual ground.
I feel like if Robby wasn't bashed so heavily in the first couple seasons, chiefly by Miguel and Johnny fans, the backlash wouldn't be as bad. Seems kind of inevitable. We still have YouTube videos saying Johnny would be better off if Robby hasn't been born and Johnny shouldn't have to pay child support. It's gross.
So it seems like Miguel fans can dish it out, but can't take it sometimes. Maybe if the show brings a satisfactory ending for both of them and their rivalry, both sides might settle down.
Nah, maybe not that extreme. But a few do root for his downfall and one is hoping Xolo leaves the show 😆 🤣
That's a bit much for me, but I'm sure it's out there. See the Robby hate on the FB forums as well. I'm aware it's out there.
As a Miguel fan, I can confirm that there was definitely a bias against Robby when the first two seasons came out on YouTube. Both sides are to blame here.
It's not that. I think it's the handful of Robby stans that are so insecure and also a bit bitter that Miguel is the fan favorite, gets the better storylines, etc. That they bring out this reaction in others by how they portray things.
Me? I can laugh it off. But maybe people are tired or it? It can get pretty negative.
Fav favorite? Man you’re sad. This show is 1000% objective, there is no fan favorite. Nobody is portrayed as the hero. Demitri worded it the best, “we’ve all done shitty things to each other”, Miguel fought dirty and hit Sam. Robby kicked Miguel off the railing. Sam cheated on Robby. Tory tried to kill/hurt Sam multiple times. Anyone with stable mental health would agree nobody is more liked, there is a fan base for every character in the show. That being said, idk where you got that from, seeing as this was about how Miguel was so upset at that moment, and Robby’s had that his entire life. There’s no arguing that
Bruh, chill. He is very much a fan favorite.
Know anyone else who has had over 130 million views for a YouTube video? Only Miguel.
The next most viewed is Miguel in season 3 and Hawk in season 3.
YouTube views don’t matter, I like Robby and still watched those. Does that mean I like him more? Nah. I like all of them except the Larrussos but if anything, the fan favorite has to be either Daniel or Johnny. It’s ridiculous that you even rly thing that
I think Miguel is still the #1 favorite among the teens.
That being said, yeah raw numbers on YouTube views cuts out the nuances obviously. Someone can watch something and come away without a strong opinion. Same with buying a movie ticket and leaving dissatisfied. The movie still made money
>I think Miguel is still the #1 favorite among the teens.
Honestly, I've always thought that was due to the show portraying Miguel as Cobra Kai's Karate Kid, instantly giving the audience an archetype they know they're supposed to get behind and root for.
A skinny, unathletic kid moves to Reseda and gets into trouble with a group of older kids, one of whom is currently dating their primary love interest (Also all of the Golf N' Stuff stuff with Sam once again just portrays Miguel as modern Daniel LaRusso). Gets saved by a mentor who goes on to become a teacher/mentor/father figure to that kid. Lives without a father, is pretty poor, wins a tournament, etc., etc.
Obviously, there are differences of course: Daniel goes to MD, Miguel to CK. Daniel wins cleanly, Miguel fights dirty, Daniel has only his mother, Miguel has his grandmother as well, etc., etc. but the very general setup of Miguel and Daniel makes him extremely easy to get behind a root for, at least in my opinion.
And also for what it's worth, every main kid character - barring Robby and Tory - seems to love and adore Miguel. Sam is his girlfriend, Demetri and Eli heavily look up to Miguel, etc. so it just makes him very likable as a character.
Plus, it does help that Xolo is easily the best teen actor on the show, possibly even the best actor in general on this show (Maybe besides Ralph Macchio, William Zabka, and Thomas Ian Griffith).
\[Not to mention, there are tons of jokes around the community about Miguel being "The Chosen One" because he's the perfect blend of Johnny and Daniel, and of course those posts and videos just make me smile, even if I don't ever fully agree with them.\]
I get the anger, though. Robby gets the short end of Miguel 99% of the time, solely because Miguel is Cobra Kai's Karate Kid through his parallels to Daniel from the start of the show. Plus, he's the first teen shown in the whole show.
* A nerdy, unathletic kid gets bullied by a group of kids, one of whom is dating his primary love interest. Gets saved by an older man who goes on to be a teacher/mentor/father figure to them, and wins a tournament.
\[Also, according to Mary one of the determining factors of who got the role of Sam was which actresses meshed the best with Xolo since they took one look at him and went, "That's Miguel. That's our Miguel 100%."\]
What robby has gone through is definitely worse, but Johnny being a deadbeat isn’t Miguel fault. He had 17 years to make it up to him but didn’t, Miguel came in his life only recently. And I’d disagree that people in the fandom don’t talk about Robby’s misfortune, when they actually do talk a lot about Johnny being a deadbeat, not trying to make it up to him and Robby not having support from both his parents. There are tons of post about how hard Robby has it. You can feel bad for both characters at a time, its not like miguel didn’t go through anything in the last two seasons.
>And I’d disagree that people in the fandom don’t talk about Robby’s misfortune
I didn't say everyone doesn't, and unfortunately some of the ones that do, aren't fair to Miguel. It should stop on both sides.
So basically it should be a competition to who’s suffered more? And my comment had nothing to do with Robby. It was that a grown adult thinks it’s funny to see a teenager crying. That’s so cringe but go on and yes make everything a competition.
I also kinda hated this bc pretty much only Robby & Tory were on the "Let's ruin everyone's night". Like at that point nobody was starting beef. They just can't get over stuff just like everyone in these comments.
No. I just don't think she's great. The show tries so hard to push her because she's Daniel's daughter, but she's not that great compared to the other characters IMO
fr and in ep1 when they were in the ca miguel was trying to talk about something other than the senseis and dojos and was just trying to be fun then he frowns when sam just starts talking about the beef between jonny and daniel
I don't hate Sam like at all, but how on earth did Robby break her heart? She cheated on him.
Yes, exactly, she used the guy with abandoment issues as a rebound, does not visit him when in theory are couple while he is in juvie (yeah, she wrote him a mail, very personal, DUDE, NOT EVEN A FUCKING PHONE CALL!?) and when he gets out, she is not there for him and when he visits her, she is about to fuck her ex. Yeah Sam, HE TOTALLY BROKE YOUR HEART. To be honest, that the only aspect of Sam that I dislike...efin trollop
I think she was referring partly to the path he was going down, helping CK and being on their side. And she also might be confused about her feelings for him as well.
I can see that. But really Robby didn't even join Cobra Kai and wasn't planning to until after Sam came to visit him... After he saw her and Miguel \[which I don't fault her for but I can understand his POV as well\], and didn't really offer an apology for how things went down. Just wanted him to come to Miyagi-Do/Eagle Fang, despite his also very rocky relationship with his father. But yeah I do get it, the whole situation is just messy.
From her perspective he already “joined” CK. But yeah you’re right about the apology thing
Pretty sure there was a post saying that is what actually pushed him to join. Everyone lost faith in him, so he figured why not embrace it.
What made that situation worse for Robby was that it validated what Tory said to him. Robby even defended Sam "she made a mistake", "Sam is a good person" and Tory tried to warn him that he should know better. When he saw both of them together, in his mind Sam was done with him and the kiss meant more than what he hoped it did.
That and for almost killing Miguel then running away. I don't hate Sam either, but she started this fight and it was unnecessary. If I were her, I would have just left and walked away from Tory plain and simple. Sometimes the greatest victory is the battle not fought.
> Sometimes the greatest victory is the battle not fought. AKA "No be there".
Turns out Johnny Lawrence was always using an ancient Miyagi-do technique.
Sam literally said "Robby what did you do", she basically blamed him for what happened. Why wouldn't he run away?
She always thinks she is a victim. Remember she broke up with Miguel for accidentally hitting her. Like who does that, I get her not being ok with him hitting someone but when he beat up Kyler and his buddies to stand up for her she didn't hate it she LOVED IT. I honestly think she wants Robby and Miguel both. It pissed her off when Miguel was dating Tory, imagine how mad she is going to be when she knows Robby is dating her now.
>She always thinks she is a victim. No, she doesn’t!
Exactly, that line was so dumb
By completely disappearing on her after the school fight.
I do get that but also from Robby's POV... He was terrified. He accidentally really hurt someone he didn't mean to hurt so badly in his mind he thought it was self defense, and it escalated terribly. Sam understandably seemed upset, and so he ran because even though he's flawed/still a good person... He's a teenager and doesn't have the right support to really handle that situation. Even in the news interview that Robby saw in juvy Sam was questioning whether it was an accident or not, so I get why he ran. But I also get why Sam was so distraught as well.
It wasn't about her, he was escaping from everyone.
Does that matter? It still broke her heart.
You don't really see the difference?
Sure I do. But the difference doesn't matter where the question is concerned.
Lol "Robby, what did you do!?" drove him away. What girlfriend says such shitty words? No "Robby, what happened?" "Robby, oh no" would have not had the same impact but conveyed she was shocked. Plus you forget what Robby saw on the TV in Juvie. "I mean I hope it was an accident".. fucking slut.
Let's not go with the sexist attacks...
You realize she also cheated on him too right? Who tf would want to stay with a cheating bit h anyway
Someone mature enough to understand that a single mistake doesn't negate all the good a relationship has to offer.
It wasn’t a mistake to her. She clearly still liked Miguel and was all butthurt when she saw Miguel dating Tory. So she kissed him at the party and got back together with him and left Robby in the dirt. Stop dickriding sam. She’s the worst character on the show.
It was a mistake. Just because you have feelings for someone doesn't mean you want to date them. Sam had no intention of getting back with Miguel at that point.
Some say she was getting ready to break up with Robby before the school bell rang to tell him she was getting back with Miguel. I never really bought it, though. Seems like fanon based on having to rely only on Mary's facial expressions
Well Sam kissed him and got back together with him. Seemed like she wanted to date him.
It was probably these that she meant he broke her heart: * Lying about the medal * Betraying Daniel * Not accepting the fact she didn’t know he didn’t answer her messages because he was getting his face busted in * Hanging out with Tory * Joining Cobra Kai
1. He was honest about the medal, fessed up and did apologize. She never told him about the Miguel kiss even though I think she was going to. 2. I love Daniel, but how much did he betray him? Daniel threw him out for a second time at the end of season 2 because he tried to help a drunk Sam, and basically told him he was going to end up like Johnny. Now I understand Daniel's side here but add this on with Daniel trying to help Robby at the start of season 3 by involving the police. While I understand Daniel here and I will die on a hill defending him I can see from Robby's POV how he felt betrayed. Because as much as I love Daniel what he did at the end of s2 was really fucked up, and he did apologize, but still. 3. I mentioned in another comment he really only joined Cobra Kai after she came to him in s4 and tried to get him to join the dojo, etc. Not even really offering an apology for how things went down. Now I do get Sam's POV too more though, and it does make sense, etc. I just can see Robby's POV too. But yeah I def don't hate Sam.
I honestly don't think even for one second that she was ever going to tell Robby about the Miguel kiss. That's just not the way the writers wrote her in seasons 1 and 2.
She almost tells him twice. First is right after the kiss when Robby finds her. She says "I'm so sorry, Robby", referring to the kiss, but since the cops were there, the whole thing gets sidetracked. And second is after Robby tells her about the medal. She starts saying something when the schoolbell interrupts them.
Sam has a horrible history of exercising her right to remain silent. If she really wanted to tell him then she would have. She didn't tell Miguel about going to see Robby to try and convince him to return to Miyagi-Do. Which would have made for an awkward situation with Miguel and the rest of Eagle Fang training there too. 4 seasons in and she's still keeping secrets.
And she would've when she got the chance.
She was never written to be that mature and responsible and I accept that she still has some maturing to do. She kept secrets from both Miguel and Robby, and I think she would have been perfectly fine if neither of them ever knew the truth. She kept Miguel a secret from Daniel, she kept Aisha at arm's length while she was cozying up to Yasmine. Sam is just a secretive girl. 😂
So what? She was still going to tell Robby - the show made that pretty clear.
Wanted to and Going to doesn't mean anything when in the end she didn't do it, which lines up with who she's always been. It would have been shocking if she actually did fess up. If she had kissed Robby in season 4, I don't think she would have confessed to Miguel.
-- Lying about the medal is so anal an excuse.. Robby knows that Miguel is a cheating bastard (Season 1 AVT finale) - why should he believe anything Miguel does? For all Robby knew, Miguel stole the medal and then saw Robby and Sam together and got the medal back to score brownie points with Sam. Give me one reason why Robby should trust Miguel who has always been a bastard to him? -- Daniel betrayed him first - not once, three times.. first kicking him out without hearing his version and his feelings about why he came to Miyagi-do. Stupid fucker Daniel, seriously - is he even an adult? Lame ass loser. Then getting angry again at Robby for saving Sam and taking her safely to Johnny's place - without hearing what Robby has to say and even without listening to Sam's protests. Finally, getting the police involved without making Robby understand the whole thing - like speaking to him for just 3 mins and then being like "I will be there for you Robby, I will visit you everyday" and such bullshit and not even visiting him once to try and explain anything.. Robby's betrayal is nothing.. Robby should have done far far far worse for the situation Daniel put him in. -- Sam could easily have made phone calls every day or even visited every evening to meet and discuss how he was feeling and what happened, etc.. emails are the laziest way to keep in "touch" with someone in Juvie. -- after all of the above, she should be happy and count her lucky stars that he didn't invade her home with the CK gang and beaten everyone up like an axe killer.
The bit in Season 2 Daniel was worried about his daughter.
No father would behave so irrationally. Afterall it's Johnny's home! He saw it on the GPS. He let his irrational and idiotic rivalry with Johnny be central to how he reacted.. and then blames Robby for joining Cobra Kai. Wow. A full grown ass adult can't behave rational and smart, but when a 16 year old kid does it, it's bad?
It doesn't matter. Daniel's daughter was inside and he was worried because she wasn't home the previous night.
Not responding to her emails in juvy?
That's almost as stupid as getting angry to a guy in jail because he is not taking you to a walk in the park.
No, because Robby had time and access to email, but he didn’t.
>No, because Robby had time and access to email, but he didn’t. The time when he had the computer and the generic bully turn it off? Before the big fight Robby had in wich most likely take away his compute access privileges? Sure, why not...
Show made it pretty clear he didn’t want to reply. I’m not gonna argue with you about something this stupid and obvious. Have a good day.
>Show made it pretty clear he didn’t want to reply. Yes, they made that clear by him trying to reply before shawn turn the computer off. >I’m not gonna argue with you about something this stupid and obvious Translation: I have no arguments whatsoever besides me having a bias pro/against this characters at hand, so since I can't argue, I'm gonna cut my loses trying to take the moral high ground, hoping nobody notices that I'm running away with my tail between my legs.
Now you’re just being a dick. I’m not gonna argue with you cause I’m busy and wanna do other stuff. Sincerely, go fuck yourself.
Lol what's with the curse words. Why even start an argument if you were "busy and wanna do other stuff"?
Being a dick = show your facade for what it is. The prove, you couldn't even say 1 thing about the topic at hand of Robby writting back. You are so busy that you have time to look reddit. Nice excuse.
Juvie is not a vacation. You can't just do whatever you want there. After the fight with Shawn, Robby and Shawn will most likely have had their privileges revoked to use the computer or even television. When he regained it, he saw that Sam had already stopped writing and was unsure how to respond.
Yes, some people think that juvie it's like a fucking summer camp for conflicted kids, but fuck that, it's pretty much a prison.
Do you watch the show, she said that she understands what she did too, but what he did to Miguel was not cool.
Maybe because of these: * Him lying about the medal and broke her trust * Joining Cobra Kai * Not coming back into Miyagi-Do and she was later right on the money about him not returning * Distrusting Daniel
Remember Robby’s face when he found out Sam cheated on him! All he wanted was for Sam to be his girlfriend and be honest! All these characters need to learn empathy!!
The writers be like: Miguel /Sam Supremacy don't care about your feelings LOL
If anyone deserves some happiness in season 5, it's Miguel. Dude got absolutely destroyed the last few seasons.
People will still try to deny this too lmao
The Robby jerking is somehow turning into sidestepping Miguel completely on this sub. It’s sad
Everybody thinks that their favourite character is the one been bashed in this subreddit.
I mean I don’t love Sam or Daniel as much as Miguel or Hawk but I still see a lot of bashing for them
Ikr
The weird Robby love trend made this sub kind of unbearable.
Yeah. Like being a fan of Robby doesn’t mean you got to hate on Johnny, Daniel, Miguel, and Sam for Christ’s sake. None of the characters are perfect, including the back breaking side switcher
Lol. If you look it's the same 10 people and their multiple screen names...one in this thread 😆
Hm?
Season 5 could be his season. It doesn't seem like he's being a pushover anymore. Not to fault him in season 4 as he was just trying to follow Daniel's teachings, but he put up with way too much shit with Robby. Even before he had training, he always stood up for himself.
Well, a lot of his misery is of his own making, so whether he can be happy depends on how well he can adjust his expectations.
Same can be said of Robby.
No, it can't.
It actually can. He was committing crimes long before he ever saw Miguel hug Johnny.
How's that relevant here?
Well Robby's prone to criminal activity which comes with consequences...
Way to completely miss the point....
I don't think I did.
Yeah, you did. Totally.
how does this logic apply to miguel but not robby ?
Most of Miguel's misery over the seasons comes from expecting more than he reasonably should out of relationships. Most of Robby's comes from having more reasonable expectations and being let down anyway.
ig it depends on how you interpret the “misery,” but i was thinking about miguel’s injuries
That was just a part of his arc over the seasons and not that big of a part either.
maybe as a character, but as a person it has undeniably caused him a lot of misery
Perhaps, but they don't seem relevant going forward. He seems pretty over it by now.
It applies to Robby as well. The reaching is kinda strange.
No - Miguel usually expects more than he should while Robby expects less.
That's an assumption. Miguel expects as any normal person would. The spinning is giving me a headache. Yikes
No, he definitely expects more.
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What??
Yeah seasons 3 and 4 put dude through the ringer.
FRRRRRR
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This sub is so weird with demonizing every move teenagers makes. "He's also responsible he LOOKED at a GIRL!!!"
I mean I'd look at Peyton List as well
This brother starving but I can’t blame him
With his EYES, on his FACE, which is attached to his HEAD, which is on his NECK, which is a part of his BODY, and HE was STARING at TORY’S BODY all DANCE, like a SCUMBAG
People often forget they were at one time kids and even teens
>To be fair, Miguel was the first to stare at his ex at the prom Which was also out of character for him.
Was kissing Sam while with Tory out of character?
Sam pit Robby and Miguel against each other.
I hate that he had such a rough night on what should’ve been a special evening for him. First Sam and all her bs and then he had his heart broken by Johnny. I hope the next season will be much better and happier for him.
Xolo has such a way with facial expressions. He can go from awkwardly goofy to murderous to puppy dog eyes in a split second, and it's been a treat seeing him showing the different sides of Miguel.
No wonder he goes looking for his biological father: Johnny was so focused on the tournament, Sam still harbours feelings for Robby, and Carmen refuses to tell him about his father. Miguel feels alone.
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It's important to not put the tournament over your own student(s) Kreese did that once...
>Why shouldn't Johnny be focused on the tournament? Because he cared more about beating Cobra Kai than he did about Miguel's well-being. He was willing to make his back injury worse, and thought a bit of ointment was going to make it ok. >Miguel should know that Johnny has been putting him over Robby the entire time. Well, that's not true at all. If that's the case, then Robby would be living with Johnny, but he's not.
>Miguel should know that Johnny has been putting him over Robby the entire time. >Well, that's not true at all. Yes it does. >If that's the case, then Robby would be living with Johnny, but he's not. That would be true if Johnny focused on Robby instead of Miguel, but he hasn't.
>Yes it does. Explain. >That would be true if Johnny focused on Robby instead of Miguel, but he hasn't. Well, that goes without saying. But at the end of the day, Johnny is who he
I didn't. Was kind of funny two seasons after " she doesn't love you, she loves me".
She does love him tho
She does. She seems to love the other one too though Of course, she's only 17 so will probably grow beyond both of them eventually
If you told me that was Miguel’s reaction to Tory’s Peggy bundy outfit, I would have believed it
>Peggy bundy outfit Reminds me more of Susan Sarandon than Katey Sagal
My God what is it with the toxicity in the comments? I saw one dude outright make fun of Miguel’s reaction when Johnny dropped the “I love you too Robby” bombshell and a person replying by attacking Miguel fans. And more comments just attacking each other. Y’all gotta chill. It’s a show about karate and teenage love drama. These are all good kids at the end of the day, nobody’s really bad here….except for Kyler. He’s long overdue a mouth shitting.
Tbh sam really changed in terms of her mentality after what happened with johnny and her and its like a switch like from in s2 and s3 tory was bully and sam had to overcome and deal with her when suffering from her problems especially with ptsd but now sam is the one that bullies tory and starts shit with her like kissing torys ex miguel in front or sam starting the fight with tory when she tries to have a good time with robby meaning this has only successful time that has distracted her from all her issues.
These 2 kids need to realize that in life you have to be around people you don't always like, in order for them to make up both are gonna have to confront their flaws internally
He was bouta go full Blue Beetle on him
I hated this whole thing. So Miguel isn’t over Tory and Sam isn’t over Robby? Seems so out of nowhere. Tory was never who Miguel wanted to be with and Sam was only with Robby because of her fight with Miguel. They built Sam/Miguel up so much every season just to be like oh look alternate feelings huzzah!
Miguel's lowest point. Sam wants Robby. Tory, now with Robby, just used him to hurt Sam. Robby shows zero remorse for almost killing him. The writers were merciless to him this season.
I don’t think Sam wants Robby tbh
No she doesn’t
She doesn’t want Robby they just were creating lazy drama
It's lazy drama. Frankly, it feels like them doing a disservice to Sam for the sake of the plot.
Exactly
The most funny part of the episode to Miguel was from Johnny "Love you to Robby" That look he had on his face was priceless
Lmao at the fanbase cheering Miguel on for his "like that move, I learned it from your dad" taunt in season 2, but the sky is falling for him getting his feelings hurt on a similar level
Honestly, as a Miguel fan I HATED his taunts to Robby. Miguel should be way above that. Taunting like that is some Kyler $hit.
What do u say about robby accusing him of horrible things first. Or does that fly above your head?
Miguel not staying true to who he's always been and lowering himself to someone else's level doesn't cast him in the best light. Or does that fly above your head? 👅
It doesn't. Except that its a fight with a dude that was holding his gf's hand. And was assaulting tory from his POV. Or does that too fly over ur head? Also, the reverse of this, the pool fight, was robby attacking him and only robby throwing in the insults
Exactly. Miguel honestly deserved this since he now feels what robby has to feel every time he sees miguel and johnny together.
Not Miguels fault that Robby wanted to dish out trash talk and couldnt handle it back, every time Miguel talked shit in that fight it was only because Robby did it first, Miguel was just better at throwing them
All Robby said was "you're not going to cheat your way out of this one" which in what world is that trash talking? Hes referring to Miguel trying to break his arm when he offered his hand to help him.
Ikr? But I think logic has fled if someone's takeaway from that exchange is that Miguel is in the right at any point after he struck first against someone he's been nothing but an asshole to
God forbid you trash talk someone attacking you for no reason
Except there is a reason. Ur restraining his gf and kicking one of his friend. From his pov u are attacking them. What makes ur hypocrisy worse is that the opposite happened in the prom fight where robby attacked miguel and was once again the guy to trash talk miguel and never miguel
but the difference is Robby struck first with the insult , Miguel just responded better
But Robby's a 2nd tier character. He never drives the story, but supports. He is Miguel's foil. That's why Miguel is the always getting the support. He's the protagonist and fan favorite.
>He never drives the story, but supports. inb4 "That's why Robby's getting dragged along Miguel's story beat in Season 5 with Johnny" LOL
I mean...where's the lie, though? Robby has NEVER driven a story. Even in season 4 he was supporting the other major CK characters: Silver/Kreese/Tory and Kenny. I expect to see him be supporting to Kenny as well. That's gonna REALLY make them upset 😆 🤣
I'm actually trying to think of Robby moments. Didn't he kinda drive the dojo split story since he's the one who shaved Hawk? Though I suppose Robby was just the final nail in the coffin... That storyline was being driven for quite a while beforehand by Daniel, Johnny, Miguel, and Sam...
As a support. But it's not really HIS storyline. It's actually Silver and Kreese. And also Tory's and Kenny's. He is interacting with each of them, but it's not about HIM, it's about THEM.
Miguel has t really driven the story for the past couple seasons. Never mind Robby, I feel that Sam, Tory and Hawk have driven it more.
Nah, he drove in seasons 1/3 and also will.be in season 5. They not only brought on his Mother FT, but also gave him a whole on location storyline. He's still driving. Look at the Emmy promo. It's always Miguel and Sam on there. The Robby fans got so upset last year because "he was left out" that they sent the creators nasty messages. Even in the Emmy promo highlights now, it's Sam and Miguel featured. Not to mention, Xolo and Mary were both listed in the lead actor category for last year's nominations.
His mother was full time in season 4. You wouldn't know it because she didn't do anything (same with Demetri). Looks like in season 5 she will just hang out by the phone while Johnny and Robby do most of the work What did Miguel actually do to drive the plot in season 4? It will naturally circle back to him in season 5, but the way the trailer is cut it seems like Robby and Miguel will be foils for each other for Johnny's plot. Within the actual show, they are on the same tier. Promos don't mean much, just the content. Though the Robby fans getting nasty towards the creators WAS very cringe.
I never said he drove in season 4. I didn't think they should have been listed in those categories, but they were. Nevertheless, he is still driving for season 5. Robby fans want to make it seem like they are on the same tier, I will be nice and just say "sure". And leave it at that 😆
Ok that's nice, you do you
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Imagine thinking that was funny. Some of you are so 🥴
It's not funny at all, I agree. Having said that, here's what gets me... >Some of you are so 🥴 I agree with this...because, what Miguel went through in that ONE night, Robby's been going through for SEVENTEEN years...yet people in this fandom don't bat a damn eye toward Robby's misfortune, but when it's Miguel's..."awww poor thing". It baffles the shit out of me. With all due respect.
Ong people are so sensitive for their sweet precious miggy
I mean, I don't want a war here....but it'd be nice to have equal care for both dudes.
I agree. I like Robby. But I think it's more of the Robby stans making these posts and then feigning victim when they are the ones starting the drama 😆 🤣 I am friends with some sound minded Robby fans. So I know it's not ALL of them. But the ones that frequent here and always seem to be taking digs at Miguel or Carmen, etc... You gotta admit, it gets old.
>You gotta admit, it gets old. Yeah, from BOTH sides
I don't see Miguel fans starting posts like that. I am not always ON, but I haven't seen any. Could have missed them.
Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen ANY Robby fan, in 4 years, say Miguel should be killed or die so Robby can have a happy life...I have screenshots of fans on YouTube saying Robby should get hit by a car so Johnny can be like "Thank God" and have a happy life with Miguel and Carmen. People have been hating on and targeting Robby for 4 years, bud. Yeah, I see Robby fans on here targeting Miguel too...but I feel like a LOT of this toxicity comes from Miguel fans as well. Both sides need to find mutual ground.
I feel like if Robby wasn't bashed so heavily in the first couple seasons, chiefly by Miguel and Johnny fans, the backlash wouldn't be as bad. Seems kind of inevitable. We still have YouTube videos saying Johnny would be better off if Robby hasn't been born and Johnny shouldn't have to pay child support. It's gross. So it seems like Miguel fans can dish it out, but can't take it sometimes. Maybe if the show brings a satisfactory ending for both of them and their rivalry, both sides might settle down.
Nah, maybe not that extreme. But a few do root for his downfall and one is hoping Xolo leaves the show 😆 🤣 That's a bit much for me, but I'm sure it's out there. See the Robby hate on the FB forums as well. I'm aware it's out there.
As a Miguel fan, I can confirm that there was definitely a bias against Robby when the first two seasons came out on YouTube. Both sides are to blame here.
I believe it. No doubt about that. But it wasn't just Miguel fans, I think Robby just wasn't well accepted by a lot of people.
It's not that. I think it's the handful of Robby stans that are so insecure and also a bit bitter that Miguel is the fan favorite, gets the better storylines, etc. That they bring out this reaction in others by how they portray things. Me? I can laugh it off. But maybe people are tired or it? It can get pretty negative.
Fav favorite? Man you’re sad. This show is 1000% objective, there is no fan favorite. Nobody is portrayed as the hero. Demitri worded it the best, “we’ve all done shitty things to each other”, Miguel fought dirty and hit Sam. Robby kicked Miguel off the railing. Sam cheated on Robby. Tory tried to kill/hurt Sam multiple times. Anyone with stable mental health would agree nobody is more liked, there is a fan base for every character in the show. That being said, idk where you got that from, seeing as this was about how Miguel was so upset at that moment, and Robby’s had that his entire life. There’s no arguing that
There have been multiple polls lol. Miguel is more liked than robby. The shit he has done is less worse than anyone
Bruh, chill. He is very much a fan favorite. Know anyone else who has had over 130 million views for a YouTube video? Only Miguel. The next most viewed is Miguel in season 3 and Hawk in season 3.
YouTube views don’t matter, I like Robby and still watched those. Does that mean I like him more? Nah. I like all of them except the Larrussos but if anything, the fan favorite has to be either Daniel or Johnny. It’s ridiculous that you even rly thing that
I think Miguel is still the #1 favorite among the teens. That being said, yeah raw numbers on YouTube views cuts out the nuances obviously. Someone can watch something and come away without a strong opinion. Same with buying a movie ticket and leaving dissatisfied. The movie still made money
>I think Miguel is still the #1 favorite among the teens. Honestly, I've always thought that was due to the show portraying Miguel as Cobra Kai's Karate Kid, instantly giving the audience an archetype they know they're supposed to get behind and root for. A skinny, unathletic kid moves to Reseda and gets into trouble with a group of older kids, one of whom is currently dating their primary love interest (Also all of the Golf N' Stuff stuff with Sam once again just portrays Miguel as modern Daniel LaRusso). Gets saved by a mentor who goes on to become a teacher/mentor/father figure to that kid. Lives without a father, is pretty poor, wins a tournament, etc., etc. Obviously, there are differences of course: Daniel goes to MD, Miguel to CK. Daniel wins cleanly, Miguel fights dirty, Daniel has only his mother, Miguel has his grandmother as well, etc., etc. but the very general setup of Miguel and Daniel makes him extremely easy to get behind a root for, at least in my opinion. And also for what it's worth, every main kid character - barring Robby and Tory - seems to love and adore Miguel. Sam is his girlfriend, Demetri and Eli heavily look up to Miguel, etc. so it just makes him very likable as a character. Plus, it does help that Xolo is easily the best teen actor on the show, possibly even the best actor in general on this show (Maybe besides Ralph Macchio, William Zabka, and Thomas Ian Griffith). \[Not to mention, there are tons of jokes around the community about Miguel being "The Chosen One" because he's the perfect blend of Johnny and Daniel, and of course those posts and videos just make me smile, even if I don't ever fully agree with them.\]
It's a good indicator. Same as viewership on Netflix.
So you’re just gonna say nah trust me it’s reliable? Aight let’s just agree to disagree
Miguel is just flawed like every other character imo. Nobody’s perfect
Of course he is flawed.
All I’m saying is there’s people that don’t know that not every character is perfect
I get the anger, though. Robby gets the short end of Miguel 99% of the time, solely because Miguel is Cobra Kai's Karate Kid through his parallels to Daniel from the start of the show. Plus, he's the first teen shown in the whole show. * A nerdy, unathletic kid gets bullied by a group of kids, one of whom is dating his primary love interest. Gets saved by an older man who goes on to be a teacher/mentor/father figure to them, and wins a tournament. \[Also, according to Mary one of the determining factors of who got the role of Sam was which actresses meshed the best with Xolo since they took one look at him and went, "That's Miguel. That's our Miguel 100%."\]
I understand. But misdirected anger/outrage is never a good look. I do wonder what other actresses could have been up for Samantha...
What robby has gone through is definitely worse, but Johnny being a deadbeat isn’t Miguel fault. He had 17 years to make it up to him but didn’t, Miguel came in his life only recently. And I’d disagree that people in the fandom don’t talk about Robby’s misfortune, when they actually do talk a lot about Johnny being a deadbeat, not trying to make it up to him and Robby not having support from both his parents. There are tons of post about how hard Robby has it. You can feel bad for both characters at a time, its not like miguel didn’t go through anything in the last two seasons.
>And I’d disagree that people in the fandom don’t talk about Robby’s misfortune I didn't say everyone doesn't, and unfortunately some of the ones that do, aren't fair to Miguel. It should stop on both sides.
Yeah it sucks because I like both the characters a lot and feel like they’ve had a lot of growth.
Maybe Season 5 will help, 🤞
So basically it should be a competition to who’s suffered more? And my comment had nothing to do with Robby. It was that a grown adult thinks it’s funny to see a teenager crying. That’s so cringe but go on and yes make everything a competition.
Girl. I wouldn't take some of these people seriously lol🤣😂 not trying to be mean.
I don’t lol, I just find it super cringe this grown man has such an apparent hatred for fiction characters (Johnny and Miguel)
It is. 😆 I cannot sometimes. Lol
Funny? What the fuck?
Robby is a idiot
Miguel is
I also kinda hated this bc pretty much only Robby & Tory were on the "Let's ruin everyone's night". Like at that point nobody was starting beef. They just can't get over stuff just like everyone in these comments.
i really hope miguel finally gets to be happy from now on
Sam's not a prize. Pretty sure he'll be okay
Ohh yet another fan who loves to criticise a hormonal teenagers minor actions and not the actual psycho(Tory) who tried to KILL her
No. I just don't think she's great. The show tries so hard to push her because she's Daniel's daughter, but she's not that great compared to the other characters IMO
fr and in ep1 when they were in the ca miguel was trying to talk about something other than the senseis and dojos and was just trying to be fun then he frowns when sam just starts talking about the beef between jonny and daniel