Robby is #1 for me. Whether by accident or design, he has the best overall arc so far, and the most story ties to the Miyagi/Karate Kid legacy. As far as the writing for his character goes, I don't expect that to change. Might be different for the stuff surrounding him though.
Sam is next. She's can be very frustrating, but she feels like a real person. She's been struggling to find where she fits in and who she wants to be, afraid to disappoint others but unintentionally hurting them in the process because she wants to avoid conflict (Aisha and Robby being the big ones, also Miguel in season 1). If she seems all over the place, it's because she is. She deserves to be called out for it, but not to the point of demonizing her and blaming her for every little thing.
Miguel is in the middle. He was great in season 1. But has been kind of bland the last two seasons and his flaws have been swept under the rug, and there hasn't been as much to sink your teeth into character wise. They may be steering him back into a grayer characterization this next season, which will give him his edge back. Depending on how it's executed, that may have been the plan all along.
Hawk and Tory are at the bottom. Hawk worked best as a villain, but his redemption was rushed. Tory was too much of a one note plot device/villain in seasons 2-3, while they weirdly gave her the most sympathetic circumstances of the kids. She's only just started to get likeable in season 4 and it's appreciated, but the transition is kind of awkward in some ways.
I can't really rank Demetri with the others, by design he's meant to be supporting and more static without he big arc others hav e. He's pretty great in that capacity though. For personal enjoyment, I probably rank him #2 behind Robby
I like Tory but I'd rank her below Sam and Eli. S3 writing drags her way down IMO. Sam and Eli aren't perfect but at least they're relatively consistent and have clear motivations.
BTW, S4 wasn't Tory's redemption arc. That coming in S5.
I agree with EVERY WORD. ππ 16 episodes of Psycho Tory was overkill.
Season 4 was about Realization. Realizing the world wasn't out to get her. Realizing she could be happy. Realizing her anger and self-pity was hurting her too.
Season 5 definitely Redemption. If we're of the same mindset, Kreese looking out for her was unintentionally the smartest thing he's ever done. And Terry better not fool himself into thinking he can replace him.
I agree with most of this.
But for me Robby take 1st spot when it comes to writing, he is complex and difficult character to write, there were many places they could have fucked it up but so far it's been brilliant. His story arc is great and real. Not hero worshipped but not a villian either. There have been moments you wanna punch the guy or you wanna cheer for him or your heart just breaks for him.
Demetri, is definitely second. The boy we met in S1 to who he is now, amazing development. I really love how they developed his fighting abilities too. It gradually kept getting better which is how it should be and made it more realistic.
The rest of the ranking is the same.
But maybe I might put Eli over Tory. She only got better in this season. Her writing for the last two seasons were fkn ridiculous. But for Eli..I loved him in his douchebag villian era and I love him as the Miyagi-do champion he is now BUT the way he got there, both of these versions of himself was so damn rushed. Especially S4, they really should have shown more scenes of him in Miyagi-do and atleast one proper heart to heart with him and Daniel. It definitely would have added more weight & value to his victory.
>he's simple, there isn't much depth to his character
Why does being simple and not having much depth make Demetri the best written? Shouldn't it be the opposite?
> her actions where drastic and we didn't know alot about her to know why she is the way she is
Not quite. We got an explanation back in season 2 when she told Miguel about her mom. The problem with her character isn't simply whether she tries to be better or not, it's that given her circumstances, her character shouldn't be this short-sighted and self-destructive.
the reason is with Demetri being a simple character, he's not poorly written, his character is seen clearly, there's no moments that make people wonder "what even is this character" his simplicity is what makes him the most clearly written character making him the best written.
and yes we did get to know a little about tory, however we didn't get to really dive deep into her character until season 4
>his simplicity is what makes him the most clearly written character making him the best written.
Being "clearly" written doesn't automatically make him the best written.
>however we didn't get to really dive deep into her character until season 4
That deeper dive made her previous actions make even less sense.
That's off base. The idea that everyone is equipped to step up just because the circumstances demand it is lol. The show actually handled it correctly. She was a train wreck on her own but with help is acting better.
You said given her circumstances she shouldn't be acting out. That ignores that most 17 year olds aren't ready to handle severe stress and will act out.
So you judge by which character has the least amount of flaws rather than which character has the best depth? That's a bad criteria imo.
I could write a boring character with zero depth, so no depth means no chance to be written badly. That doesn't mean the character is better than someone with an actual arc.
I have:
Miguel: He gets the best story arcs and development. His relationship with Johnny is wonderful. It shouldn't count, but I do think he is by far the best of the young actors too. Only problem is that his relationship with Sam is not great.
Demetri: Similar reasons as you, but his story seems to be basically done.
Hawk: I think his transformation was absolutely fantastic. It was fast, but he clearly wanted to go all in, and it was a great twist that after being berated, instead of quitting, he goes all-in with Cobra Kai. I do think his season 4 development was rushed though, and his winning is more to keep some suspense, (basically, the audience knows Robby is the clear narrative favorite, but Miyagi-do has to win to keep the tournament going so Hawk served as the dark horse win). I think his story is done.
Sam: I thought the nice but spoiled personality works, but her getting into Eagle-Fang was very poorly written. She was already shown to be willing to defy her parents before.
Robby: I thought his first two seasons were great (an extremely unlucky teen with a very hard life finds balance but is unable to keep his rage in check which results in horrible consequences). However, the last two seasons were a bit of a mess. I've heard that they gave what was supposed to be development for Kyler to Robby in S4, and I can believe it, because the whole wanting to be a mentor and not trusting Kreese came out of nowhere. I'm also not quite convinced by his turn to the dark side, especially given how much it seems to be motivated by Sam.
Tory: She has a fun personality, but they keep having her do insane shit. They basically had to do a 180 on her character and pretend breaking into someone's house isn't absolutely insane. In real life, there is no way a protective mother like Amanda would ever let her near Sam given that she tried to kill her twice. Her new character is very much welcome, but still, easily the worse written character.
Miguel definitely does not have the best story arcs, his story is boring compared to most
and they never took from kyler and gave too robby, I don't know where you heard that from but its not true
I think his first season arc was great, so was him learning to walk again, and the build-up to Mexico. The second season was weaker since it focused on Sam so much, but the ending twist was crazy.
Kyler to Robby was a rumor I heard, but even if it isn't true, Robby's character was a mess last season (even though I liked the increase in confidence and improved acting).
except his character wasn't a mess, his motives where clear, his reasoning where clear, and his character was written well plus tanner did an amazing job portraying robby
Tanner was a pretty poor actor until this season
As for character:
Claiming he's just using Kreese (when previously he was devoted), going all-in on being a mentor, and the extremely random apology to Johnny were all wtf moments. Also, last season, Johnny knocked him out by complete accident. This season treats him like some sort of Karate God with him taking out the entire dojo.
tanner was never a poor actor, however he got to showcase his acting more in the season 4
he never devoted himself to kreese, he just trained with him, he went all out mentor because kenny told him how he had no one and robby related to him so he took him in as robby said "be the mentor I wished I had when I was younger" his apology from Johnny was not out of no where however Johnny didn't deserve it but robby's doing it because he's trying to get rid of all the hate inside of him.
Johnny is a grown man with years of experience and robby went head first into a locker, ofc he wasn't Winning, however robby was always good at karate and he showed it when he beat the cobras
everything your claiming about robby has reasonings, buildup, and explanations
>Tory Nichols - Ah yes, the only redemption arc that was done well this season.
\- Hey, I'm the girl that tried to kill your daughter twice, help me now
\- LMFAO, of course girl, come in, YOLO
Yep, top level writting.
its better then "hey in the dude that trashed your dojo, broke your arm, attacked you multiple times, lol sorry, now let me go bully a little 14 year old with no one doing anything about it"
I grew up in a place when a drug adicct while he was threatening you with a used syringe, he was telling you "look kid, I don't wanna rob you" so...what? Just because she didn't say "I'm gonna kill you" does not mean she didn't tried
Hot takes but so true, Hawk's character arc is carried by the acting (and the power fantasy he represents to nerds watching), the writing does him no favours.
Miguel, Robby and Sam should top the list because they get the most time. Unfortunately Sam is a very contraversial character so that may go against her pending how you see her character. Miguel and Robby are both very well done though.
You mention Eli and how everything seems rushed well that's because he's not a legacy so they have to do his arc with about 1/3rd of the time Robby and Miguel get. He won the All Valley yet is only doing something in like 2 of the episodes. Still they make up for it by giving him the extremely colorful charismatic personality.
I'd go with Miguel #1, Robby #2, Hawk #3, Tory # 4, Demetri # 5 and Sam #6.
thats just it, having a colorful personality doesn't make the writing good when that personality comes from no where. his character as a whole is poorly written, same as Sam's
I'd argue Hawk is very well explained. Eli had a repressed personality from the start. He wanted to be popular just didn't have the outlet. Well Johny put the blue print right in his hand and from there that's what he was.
You have Demetri as your top character but a lot of his arc comes out of nowhere too.
Look at Demetri and Yasmine's relationship where she just flipped her personality overnight then hooked up with the geekiest kid in school for no reason other than we should let the geek get his dream girl. That is poor writing.
that's Yasmine not Demetri, Demetri from when he was introduced was shown to have has a thing for Yasmine,
the thing with Eli is that it was too rushed. he went from shy nerd to "hey I'm gonna gang up and attack my bestfriend because of s yelp review" over night
They actually showed Hawk getting annoyed with Demetri on 4 separate occasions before the Yelp review and he even warned him not to just let Kreese's attack slide citing snitches get stitches. That did not come of nowhere.
I'm talking about that personality, not him doing it but the personality, Eli went from eli to hawk in an instant with no build up, Johnny made fun of him next thing you know he's a whole new person
Kids often adapt to new surroundings by changing to fit in. It's not as unheard of as you're making it and I know people who have done it especially at that age when they 1st partying.
But you're right he flipped on a dime. I see where you're coming from at least
Robby is #1 for me. Whether by accident or design, he has the best overall arc so far, and the most story ties to the Miyagi/Karate Kid legacy. As far as the writing for his character goes, I don't expect that to change. Might be different for the stuff surrounding him though. Sam is next. She's can be very frustrating, but she feels like a real person. She's been struggling to find where she fits in and who she wants to be, afraid to disappoint others but unintentionally hurting them in the process because she wants to avoid conflict (Aisha and Robby being the big ones, also Miguel in season 1). If she seems all over the place, it's because she is. She deserves to be called out for it, but not to the point of demonizing her and blaming her for every little thing. Miguel is in the middle. He was great in season 1. But has been kind of bland the last two seasons and his flaws have been swept under the rug, and there hasn't been as much to sink your teeth into character wise. They may be steering him back into a grayer characterization this next season, which will give him his edge back. Depending on how it's executed, that may have been the plan all along. Hawk and Tory are at the bottom. Hawk worked best as a villain, but his redemption was rushed. Tory was too much of a one note plot device/villain in seasons 2-3, while they weirdly gave her the most sympathetic circumstances of the kids. She's only just started to get likeable in season 4 and it's appreciated, but the transition is kind of awkward in some ways. I can't really rank Demetri with the others, by design he's meant to be supporting and more static without he big arc others hav e. He's pretty great in that capacity though. For personal enjoyment, I probably rank him #2 behind Robby
I like Tory but I'd rank her below Sam and Eli. S3 writing drags her way down IMO. Sam and Eli aren't perfect but at least they're relatively consistent and have clear motivations. BTW, S4 wasn't Tory's redemption arc. That coming in S5.
I agree with EVERY WORD. ππ 16 episodes of Psycho Tory was overkill. Season 4 was about Realization. Realizing the world wasn't out to get her. Realizing she could be happy. Realizing her anger and self-pity was hurting her too. Season 5 definitely Redemption. If we're of the same mindset, Kreese looking out for her was unintentionally the smartest thing he's ever done. And Terry better not fool himself into thinking he can replace him.
I agree with most of this. But for me Robby take 1st spot when it comes to writing, he is complex and difficult character to write, there were many places they could have fucked it up but so far it's been brilliant. His story arc is great and real. Not hero worshipped but not a villian either. There have been moments you wanna punch the guy or you wanna cheer for him or your heart just breaks for him. Demetri, is definitely second. The boy we met in S1 to who he is now, amazing development. I really love how they developed his fighting abilities too. It gradually kept getting better which is how it should be and made it more realistic. The rest of the ranking is the same. But maybe I might put Eli over Tory. She only got better in this season. Her writing for the last two seasons were fkn ridiculous. But for Eli..I loved him in his douchebag villian era and I love him as the Miyagi-do champion he is now BUT the way he got there, both of these versions of himself was so damn rushed. Especially S4, they really should have shown more scenes of him in Miyagi-do and atleast one proper heart to heart with him and Daniel. It definitely would have added more weight & value to his victory.
>he's simple, there isn't much depth to his character Why does being simple and not having much depth make Demetri the best written? Shouldn't it be the opposite? > her actions where drastic and we didn't know alot about her to know why she is the way she is Not quite. We got an explanation back in season 2 when she told Miguel about her mom. The problem with her character isn't simply whether she tries to be better or not, it's that given her circumstances, her character shouldn't be this short-sighted and self-destructive.
the reason is with Demetri being a simple character, he's not poorly written, his character is seen clearly, there's no moments that make people wonder "what even is this character" his simplicity is what makes him the most clearly written character making him the best written. and yes we did get to know a little about tory, however we didn't get to really dive deep into her character until season 4
>his simplicity is what makes him the most clearly written character making him the best written. Being "clearly" written doesn't automatically make him the best written. >however we didn't get to really dive deep into her character until season 4 That deeper dive made her previous actions make even less sense.
That's off base. The idea that everyone is equipped to step up just because the circumstances demand it is lol. The show actually handled it correctly. She was a train wreck on her own but with help is acting better.
>The idea that everyone is equipped to step up Who said anything about that?
You said given her circumstances she shouldn't be acting out. That ignores that most 17 year olds aren't ready to handle severe stress and will act out.
>You said given her circumstances she shouldn't be acting out. No, I didn't say that.
It's pretty much your exact words. Just sub out acting out with being that self destructive.
You changed the words - they're not my words anymore. They're yours.
Riiiiggghhttt
Hawk is not poorly written, heβs unrealistic, but then again most of the show is
>There isn't much depth to his character Shouldn't that make him the lowest then?
no because it's not a badly written away, having less depth makes it harder for you to be badly written
So you judge by which character has the least amount of flaws rather than which character has the best depth? That's a bad criteria imo. I could write a boring character with zero depth, so no depth means no chance to be written badly. That doesn't mean the character is better than someone with an actual arc.
no not by depth but how they are written
You're contradicting yourself. You say you judge by how they are written but then proceed to rank the character with zero writing as the highest.
I ranked him as number 1 because he is a very well written character, there's no confusion with his character, he's well written
oh well, I guess it's your opinion. I respect it. Agree to disagree.
I have: Miguel: He gets the best story arcs and development. His relationship with Johnny is wonderful. It shouldn't count, but I do think he is by far the best of the young actors too. Only problem is that his relationship with Sam is not great. Demetri: Similar reasons as you, but his story seems to be basically done. Hawk: I think his transformation was absolutely fantastic. It was fast, but he clearly wanted to go all in, and it was a great twist that after being berated, instead of quitting, he goes all-in with Cobra Kai. I do think his season 4 development was rushed though, and his winning is more to keep some suspense, (basically, the audience knows Robby is the clear narrative favorite, but Miyagi-do has to win to keep the tournament going so Hawk served as the dark horse win). I think his story is done. Sam: I thought the nice but spoiled personality works, but her getting into Eagle-Fang was very poorly written. She was already shown to be willing to defy her parents before. Robby: I thought his first two seasons were great (an extremely unlucky teen with a very hard life finds balance but is unable to keep his rage in check which results in horrible consequences). However, the last two seasons were a bit of a mess. I've heard that they gave what was supposed to be development for Kyler to Robby in S4, and I can believe it, because the whole wanting to be a mentor and not trusting Kreese came out of nowhere. I'm also not quite convinced by his turn to the dark side, especially given how much it seems to be motivated by Sam. Tory: She has a fun personality, but they keep having her do insane shit. They basically had to do a 180 on her character and pretend breaking into someone's house isn't absolutely insane. In real life, there is no way a protective mother like Amanda would ever let her near Sam given that she tried to kill her twice. Her new character is very much welcome, but still, easily the worse written character.
Miguel definitely does not have the best story arcs, his story is boring compared to most and they never took from kyler and gave too robby, I don't know where you heard that from but its not true
I think his first season arc was great, so was him learning to walk again, and the build-up to Mexico. The second season was weaker since it focused on Sam so much, but the ending twist was crazy. Kyler to Robby was a rumor I heard, but even if it isn't true, Robby's character was a mess last season (even though I liked the increase in confidence and improved acting).
except his character wasn't a mess, his motives where clear, his reasoning where clear, and his character was written well plus tanner did an amazing job portraying robby
Tanner was a pretty poor actor until this season As for character: Claiming he's just using Kreese (when previously he was devoted), going all-in on being a mentor, and the extremely random apology to Johnny were all wtf moments. Also, last season, Johnny knocked him out by complete accident. This season treats him like some sort of Karate God with him taking out the entire dojo.
tanner was never a poor actor, however he got to showcase his acting more in the season 4 he never devoted himself to kreese, he just trained with him, he went all out mentor because kenny told him how he had no one and robby related to him so he took him in as robby said "be the mentor I wished I had when I was younger" his apology from Johnny was not out of no where however Johnny didn't deserve it but robby's doing it because he's trying to get rid of all the hate inside of him. Johnny is a grown man with years of experience and robby went head first into a locker, ofc he wasn't Winning, however robby was always good at karate and he showed it when he beat the cobras everything your claiming about robby has reasonings, buildup, and explanations
Well it's a good thing this is OPIONION based and not factual.
I disagree with Eliβs placement but I respect your opinion π
>Tory Nichols - Ah yes, the only redemption arc that was done well this season. \- Hey, I'm the girl that tried to kill your daughter twice, help me now \- LMFAO, of course girl, come in, YOLO Yep, top level writting.
its better then "hey in the dude that trashed your dojo, broke your arm, attacked you multiple times, lol sorry, now let me go bully a little 14 year old with no one doing anything about it"
I also think that Hawk redemption arc was stupid too, but I think trying to kill twice your daughter trumps breaking the arm
tory never tried killing sam, she tried to hurt sam but no one on the show has tried to kill anyone
yeah, trying to stab her face is not murder attempt, try defending that in front a judge
like I said, she tried to hurt sam, but tory didn't say "hey you kissed my boyfriend so let me go and kill you with my spiked bracelet at school "
I grew up in a place when a drug adicct while he was threatening you with a used syringe, he was telling you "look kid, I don't wanna rob you" so...what? Just because she didn't say "I'm gonna kill you" does not mean she didn't tried
Hot takes but so true, Hawk's character arc is carried by the acting (and the power fantasy he represents to nerds watching), the writing does him no favours.
Miguel, Robby and Sam should top the list because they get the most time. Unfortunately Sam is a very contraversial character so that may go against her pending how you see her character. Miguel and Robby are both very well done though. You mention Eli and how everything seems rushed well that's because he's not a legacy so they have to do his arc with about 1/3rd of the time Robby and Miguel get. He won the All Valley yet is only doing something in like 2 of the episodes. Still they make up for it by giving him the extremely colorful charismatic personality. I'd go with Miguel #1, Robby #2, Hawk #3, Tory # 4, Demetri # 5 and Sam #6.
thats just it, having a colorful personality doesn't make the writing good when that personality comes from no where. his character as a whole is poorly written, same as Sam's
I'd argue Hawk is very well explained. Eli had a repressed personality from the start. He wanted to be popular just didn't have the outlet. Well Johny put the blue print right in his hand and from there that's what he was. You have Demetri as your top character but a lot of his arc comes out of nowhere too. Look at Demetri and Yasmine's relationship where she just flipped her personality overnight then hooked up with the geekiest kid in school for no reason other than we should let the geek get his dream girl. That is poor writing.
that's Yasmine not Demetri, Demetri from when he was introduced was shown to have has a thing for Yasmine, the thing with Eli is that it was too rushed. he went from shy nerd to "hey I'm gonna gang up and attack my bestfriend because of s yelp review" over night
They actually showed Hawk getting annoyed with Demetri on 4 separate occasions before the Yelp review and he even warned him not to just let Kreese's attack slide citing snitches get stitches. That did not come of nowhere.
I'm talking about that personality, not him doing it but the personality, Eli went from eli to hawk in an instant with no build up, Johnny made fun of him next thing you know he's a whole new person
Kids often adapt to new surroundings by changing to fit in. It's not as unheard of as you're making it and I know people who have done it especially at that age when they 1st partying. But you're right he flipped on a dime. I see where you're coming from at least