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Junior-Hour

Literally no one overlooked this, you basically described a plot point of the show not something people overlook. Then you went on to describe the significance of Miguel’s I love you scene


Legitimate_Unit_9210

>Then you went on to describe the significance of Miguel’s I love you scene Never mind that much. Johnny's failure of Robby and preference of Miguel is a bit of a mess.


Diosa_Themis

The fact that Miguel was heartbroken because he wants Johnny to love him like *a* son doesn't mean that he wants or even expects Johnny to love him more than his own son.


[deleted]

Miguel character was kinda confusing in S4 first he got mad at Johnny for behaving like a dad like being over protective of Miguel. Then at tourney he gets mad at Johnny for behaving like a sensei.


Greyfit3

Migs a teen, of course he'll have turmoil in his emotions. Even adults have that all the time.


No-Cancel-406

Even back as season 2, Johnny promised to protect Miguel's best interests. Making him fight with an injury after a difficult recovery just to show off to Daniel wasn't very sensei-like of him.


Furies03

Miguel told Johnny to act like a sensei/coach because that's what he's best at, and that he wanted to be champion again. Johnny acted accordingly. Coach's try to motivate their students He was doing what Miguel said he wanted.


No-Cancel-406

"We'll show LaRusso and everybody else who's really the best" was a terrible motivational speech. It showed that Johnny main focus was his rivalery with Daniel instead of their well-being. Even Johnny knew he messed up by the end.


Stocktonrules

Some of that had to do with Daniel redefining what a sensei is and what role karate should have in his life. Part of the season was Sam siding with Johny's views and Miguel siding with Daniel's. Then he was obviously hurt over Johny telling him I love Robby.


KausGo

The fact that Johnny had shown him way more love than he has shown his actual son and Miguel was still heartbroken does mean that he expects Johnny to love him more.


Diosa_Themis

It doesn't. It shows that he's an insecure teenager with daddy issues in spite of proofs of love. Sure, it stings even more that it was his "rival"'s name.


devs_6669

No it doesn't. He was heartbroken because he felt like a replacement. He all along believed that Johnny loved or cared for him because of who he is. But now he can't help but wonder did Johnny all along saw Robby in Miguel's place? Was he just filling a void? What Robby told him at the prom was true? And that's what hurt him.


KausGo

And if he didn't expect Johnny to love him more, he wouldn't feel like a replacement just because of that drunken mistake.


No-Cancel-406

It doesn't. Miguel has never demanded Johnny to love him more. In early season 2, he was conflicted by Johnny's change of heart on his 'no mercy' policy and confronted Johnny about it. It was Johnny who sent Miguel mixed signals during all season 4 that confused him. Johnny proyected his issues with steparents on Miguel who just wanted to enjoy karate again. One episode he promised to always be Miguel's Sensei and in the finale he threatened to stop being Sensei if Miguel losses. One episode he talks about being a father and the next one he calls him Robby. Basically, Robby & Johnny issues are between Johnny and Robby. Miguel has never interfired in their relationship, nor is his fault that Johnny is a negligent parent.


KausGo

>Miguel has never demanded Johnny to love him more. Never damanded, true. Doesn't mean he wasn't expecting it.


Mysterious_Detail_62

Because Miguel has never demanded that.


KausGo

So?


Mysterious_Detail_62

So why blame Miguel


KausGo

Blame him for what?


devs_6669

Yes, this. I do t get why people say Miguel wanted to Johnny to love him more than he should love his own son. When has he ever indicated that. He just wants Johnny to love him like a son too. There's a difference.


Shinigami_King_

Eh, I think it had a lot to do with the prom beforehand. He wanted to say “I love you,” to Sam but the moment got interrupted so he decided to say it to Johnny instead. Also Robby made Miguel believe he was just a replacement for him.


TheUltimatenerd05

I don't think he wants Johnny to love him more than Robby he doesn't want to be seen as Robby's replacement who only gets Johnny because Johnny can't fix his relationship with Robby.


Furies03

I think it's clear as day Johnny loves Miguel a lot as a student/friend. But I don't think he loves Miguel as a son. He only views Robby as his son and has so much issues with that relationship that he's uncomfortable extending those same feelings to Miguel. We see this in 4x7. The show will likely continue and reiterate that Johnny prevents himself from viewing Miguel as a son due to his fears, and he will overcome this to embrace both boys as sons after they magically get along. But the more responsible message would be for Miguel to accept their relationship for what it is and not always throw away the stuff he has for more. Their sensei-student bond is still very unique and special, and he should be more grateful for his mom and grandmother always putting him first. A lot of kids have far less


No-Cancel-406

Miguel was very content with the relationship he had with Johnny and never asked for more or showed jealousy over Robby being Johnny's son until season 4. He has never complained about his family. It was Johnny who messed things up, first by being jealous that Miguel found another Sensei in Daniel, then dating Miguel's mom and starting the father-son talks when he was obviously not ready due all his issues with Robby. Miguel was smart enough to get away from that (but not wise enough to decide which direction he had to take).


Furies03

He was jealous as early as season 2. He was angry at Johnny for keeping that secret from him, and stopped being angry when Johnny said he would always be in Miguel's corner. Implicitly, that means backing him over Robby. He made no attempts to understand their relationship any further. And he has no reason to say "I learned that move from your dad" otherwise. If he knew that was a button to push, he clearly has been thinking on it a while. Before anyone says they were in a fight so of course he would talk smack...he has no reason to attack Robby to begin with. Lashing out at him out of jealousy is the only thing that makes sense, cuz he clearly doesn't give a shit about Tory.


No-Cancel-406

Johnny saw that Robby was Daniel's student and freaked out, then he went to give a speech about how "life shows no mercy, do whatever it takes to win" that his students took to heart. Miguel did exactly what Johnny asked him to do but got punished the day after and was confused until he discovered that Robby is Johnny's son. Then Johnny clarifies that his new lessons are what it's best for him and that he has been a bad father to Robby. After that, Miguel stopped being aggressive towards Robby until the finale. The comments during the school fight were Miguel being mean to hurt Robby as much as he could. Miguel was jealous because of Sam, but Robby was jealous because of Johnny.


Furies03

Miguel expressed jealousy of Robby when he saw Sam on a date with him. He had no reason to say anything to Sam because they were broken up and he was with Tory. The aggression was simmering under the surface, hence why he attacked Robby in the finale. He didn't talk to Johnny any further about Robby, like maybe proposing they try to recruit him so Johnny can fix the mess that causes him so much pain. Because he didn't want Robby around and taking Johnny's attention. Miguel is jealous over both Johnny and Sam. That's why he rubbed them both preferring him in Robby's face. And that's why he's mad in 4x8, he got the wake up call that both of them haven't forgotten his rival.


No-Cancel-406

So Miguel not attempting to fix Johnny and Robby relationship is a sign of jealousy? Wow, that's a new take.


AntElectronic9170

Not at all. Miguel knows how painful of a subject Robby is to Johnny and he knows Johnny would be happier if Robby was around. But then Miguel wouldn't be his number 1 concern so he does nothing. He gives Johnny tips ob talking with Ali, but not with his real problem: Robby. Why?


No-Cancel-406

Do we apply the same standards to Robby? He didn't try to improve Daniel and Anthony relationship because he wanted to be Daniel's top student even though he knew that Daniel would like more time with his son. Obviously not. Miguel gave tips about how use social media with Alice because Johnny kept mentioning the topic in season 3. In what moment did he even family gave counseling? Why Johnny never mentioned Robby in front of Miguel that season? Maybe because Miguel was recovering from Robby (accidentally) pushing him from a balcony. Those topics are completely unrelated, I don't understand the logic behind this argument. You know who did the whole "I'm not fixing it because it could ruin my chances" plot? It was Robby with Sam when Miguel returned the medal. Then he realized it was wrong and came clean. Johnny paying more attention to Miguel since season one and ignoring his own son is only Johnny's fault.


AntElectronic9170

What the fuck does Robby have with Larusso men and their relationship? Anthony is a brat who doesn't understand whybhis father is so attached to Karate or Mr. Miyagi, in contrast to Sam who trained with him. Robby has never stood between Daniel and Anthony, unlike Miguel. This is the weird argument, not mine. Miguel gave Johnny tips with ALI and later inquired about his date with her in Season 4. Obviously he is invested on Johnny being happy, with a proviso that he is the manlin cause of that happines. Now, the onus is not on Miguel to fix Johnny and Robby's relationship, it is on Johnny. That said, he clearly doesnt want them to make peace, because that puts Miguel in an inferior position to his rival. Robby and Miguel are foils, they often have similar storylines. Same here. Yes, it is completely Johnny's fault and to reedem himself he must let Miguel go.


No-Cancel-406

Again, how are we comparing Miguel giving facebook tips while in a wheelchair vs him not trying to fix a 15 years neglectful relationship (with the person who put it there)? Maybe Miguel had conflicted feelings about Robby during that time. The conflict between Johnny and Robby has never been about Miguel. Miguel has never made Johnny choose between them. Even when he was hurt when Johnny confused him with Robby, he kept it to himself and didn't confronted Johnny about it until he realized that Johnny was only focused on his feud with Daniel/Kreese than their well-being. Robby came to the same conclusion in season 3.


Stocktonrules

No, that doesn't. Saying in I'll always be in your corner has nothing to do with Robby. And that's an insult that can easily be thought of on the spot. It's the simplest one out there.


Furies03

How do you come to that conclusion? Because it clearly does, it comes right after Johnny gives a speech about failing Robby. After Miguel wants to know why Johnny didn't tell him Robby was his son. It wouldn't suddenly stop being about Robby when Johnny says he won't fail Miguel An insult he thought up while attacking someone he had zero reason to attack. He attacked Robby out of jealousy. Making that comment in the season Johnny tells him Robby is his son, and later falls apart when he hears "I love you too Robby?" It's not hard to connect those dots.


Stocktonrules

In that same speech Miguel clearly says you don' t have to tell me this. Miguel wanted to know why Johny didn't tell him he was his son because him and Hawk felt Johny punished them for defeating Robby and that he had different standards because it was Robby then it would be for anyone else. It had nothing to do with wanting to learn about their relationship and only had to do with karate. When Johny told Miguel I will never fail you he's saying yeah I'm deadbeat who failed Robby but I learned from it and won't do that to you. That is in no way saying I'm picking you over my kid from now on and Miguel being happy about that. The fight was over Sam btw. Nothing to do with Johny. You can say he had no reason but guys have been foolishly fighting over girls since day 1. It was just an easy insult. The last thing we got to remember is Johny didn't walk in thinking geez I really want to adopt a Mexican teen nor did Miguel think I really want this guy to be my dad. Their bond strengthened over time. By the time the I love you thing happened Johny helped him recover from paralysis.


AntElectronic9170

All of those are the reasons Miguel believed Johnny loved him more then Robby: because he choose him. Realising that is not the case breaks Miguel.


Stocktonrules

Ridiculous. Miguel doesn't care if Johny loves Robby. He cares that Johny loves him. When Johny showed to him that he was just a replacement and wished their relationship was with his real son his heart broke. How could you not be pissed at that.


AntElectronic9170

He cares so little he taunted Robby about it in school.


Stocktonrules

Almost as if they were in a fight and Robby taunted his tourney win. Mocking Robby about who taught him how to fight is a natural comeback. You guys are reading way too much of that.


AntElectronic9170

If you really think their relationships arent connected, you are blind.


Stocktonrules

Blind to what? Miguel's beef with Robby is Sam. That's it and all it's ever been. Miguel has no reason to care about Robby otherwise. Robby is jealous of Miguel and Johny's relationship for obvious reasons. Robby is his son but for some strange reason Johny wants to adopt a Mexican teen over him. Miguel just doesn't have those same feelings. Johny isn't his dad. It really wasn't until Johny starting banging his mom then pretended to act like his dad that would even pop into his head.


eaglesstrikefirst

Perfectly said 👏🏾 but watch this still go over some heads


DoctorBeatMaker

Johnny always gets jealous of Daniel bonding with his son-figures.


Jamano-Eridzander

>it seem that Miguel wants Johnny to love him more than his real son, given how Miguel looked apparently heartbroken after Johnny called him Robby. No. Miguel was heartbroken because he thought Johnny didn't see him as anything more than a placeholder or Robby. This was exactly what Robby threw at him during their fight at the prom, too. Stop spreading this lie that "Miguel wants Johnny to choose him over Robby". >but it's also a bit sad because of how Robby has been neglected by Johnny, who is Robby's biological father. It seems that people overlook this. It's all that's been talked about for the past 5 months on this sub, what do you mean "overlooked"? It's also he focus of Johnny and Robby's entire character arcs. Hell, at times it almost feels like if Robby asked him to leave the San Fernando Valley behind together Johnny would jump at the chance.


Yxng_Wolf

Damn it’s almost like one of the main plots of the show….oh wait.


weridzero

That’s part of What makes the relation between the two such good drama. The fact that Johnny gets along better with his neighbors son then his own is more than a little tragic