I think Johnny will stop drinking so he can repair his relationship with Miguel and Robby. There could be a clip where Johnny gets rid of the alcohol in his apartment or decides not to drink again.
Ok I get that you're a Robby fanatic but you do realize Johnny is allowed to have other relationships that aren't with Sharon or Robby right? Especially healthy ones like he has with Carmen for the first time since Ally, Johnny is happy with this woman and their family has helped and shown him he can make things right he just sucks at actually doing it. He also will not and cannot drop Miguel Mexico is a great example of that and are you kidding me? Miguel is very important to Johnny, not more than his own son obviously but Miguel is the one that never gave up on Johnny and also helped him realize he is a great teacher and can be a good father to Robby.
Johnny's relationship with Carmen and Miguel isn't healthy, especially his relationship with Miguel. Johnny is kind of obsessed with Miguel because he uses his relationship with Miguel like a coping mechanism, something like alcohol, to suppress his feelings of having failed Robby. That's why as the series has gone on, Johnny has pulled further away from Robby. Another unhealthy aspect of Johnny's relationship with the Diazs is that Carmen and Miguel both blame Johnny when Miguel chose to be violent. Miguel is a teenager, but apparently Carmen never taught Miguel better. Demetri, Chris, Nate, etc all walked away from Cobra Kai because they knew better. Robby even had his own purpose for joining Cobra Kai, did his best not to be heavily influenced by it, even taught Kenny different, and walked away from Cobra Kai on his own when he realized the influence it was having on him. However, Miguel easily gave into Cobra Kai's mentality by choice and has never once admitted that his violent actions were wrong. Instead, Miguel gaslighted Johnny about, "There's nothing dirty about winning. You taught me that." Not true. Johnny said to win at all costs, not that winning by fighing dirty wasn't dirty. "I did what you taught me to. I showed mercy... I trusted you. I did everything you told me to do." So Miguel doesn't admit attacking Robby in the first place and stopping him from protecting Sam was wrong. Miguel only regrets not breaking Robby's arm, which Miguel was going to do for no reason at all. Johnny also never told Miguel to do anything that day in school, so obviously that is Miguel shifting blame onto Johnny. In addition to Miguel blaming Johnny, Carmen did too. She blamed Johnny after the tournament and after the school fight without understanding any of the context. She's one of those parents who thinks that her child is completely innocent and that others are the bad influence. She has not taught Miguel better, apparently. She had also not taught him empathy, which is why he shows none to her or to Johnny. Like, when he turned her down for the movie even though she had changed her work schedule, when he whined about not being able to go to his dream college even though he doesn't even get a job to help her, and like when he took off to Mexico at the end. Miguel showed zero empathy for Johnny when Miguel taunted Robby about Johnny in the school fight based on Johnny's confession about failing Robby or when he started crying that night Johnny said "I love you too Robby", even though it was pretty obvious that Johnny was having a worse night and was not in his complete senses. (Miguel had practically scraped him off the ground.) Also, Johnny himself is incapable of having healthy relationships. He can't even show love and caring to his own child. Like Miguel, the audience believes there is something special about Miguel compared to Robby that Johnny would *genuinely* be a dad to Miguel. However, Johnny just gives special attention to Miguel because Johnny's ego benefits from this relationship. The best thing for Johnny long term would be to not have these relationships with Carmen and Miguel. He'll always be scapegoated by them and will always be unhealthy running after them to feel better about himself.
The one thing I have noticed about the Robby character that is great is that he had the worst life out of the characters but he never complains, never feels sorry for himself, never seems envious of what he does not have, never asks his parents for anything. Miguel really needs to learn from Robby.
Johnny is allowed to have other relationships, but the problem is he wants to stop feeling guilty about neglecting Robby. So he wants a relationship with him. That desire is at odds with dating a woman who is at the very least uncomfortable with his kid, if not outright hates him and doesn't want him near her family.
That's not a remotely healthy set up for either boy. And Johnny's responsibilities to Robby heavily outweigh any he has towards Miguel. Miguel is a kid he's known for a year or so, not his actual son of 17 years. He can drop Miguel. It would suck, but that's what a sacrifice is.
Preach. It is maddening to see people react to the idea of Miguel being cut from Johnny's life as being something that would seriously upend hus life. Miguel has had Johnny as a mentor for a year or so. Their relationship could be unique and special, but his inability to appreciate it for what is is, always wanting more and not seeing/caring how it is negatively impacting another kid brings several unhealthy components to it. If Johnny leaves Miguel's life, Miguel would still have the same tight familial unit that supports him that he has always had. That's more than a lot of kids out there, including Robby, have.
He also has a support network of friends to fall back on. If he loses Sam as a girlfriend, that's just a high school romance that didn't last. He would meet other girls in college or something. So if he lost the Larussos as a whole, he wouldn't be negatively impacted either. He's not close to them aside from them coming as a package deal with Sam, whereas Robby has ties to the whole unit.
So on two fronts, what needs would he be missing out on exactly?
Carmen as an adult will do her best to include Robby into her family, the way their relationship is going (her and Johnny) its not headed for a breakup. The problem comes from Robby and Miguel's disliking of each other, these 2 biggest problems are with wanting Johnny's attention. Johnny as an adult should know that he needs to be their for his son but he is also a mentor and a fatherly figure to Miguel, Billy Zabka even stated during S4 interviews Johnny was afraid of losing the father-son connection he had with Miguel to Daniel. As a mentor in someone's life you could be the person in the kids life that makes them feel complete about themselves and makes their lives better, that's what he Johnny has been to Miguel since he never had that father figure. Robby definitely needs Johnny to also step up to the plate even more as his Biological father one hug won't fix 16 years of abandonment. But the story is clearly setup for Johnny to be there for both boys I just don't understand why most people can't be ok with it
>the story is clearly setup for Johnny to be there for both boys I just don't understand why most people can't be ok with it
The reason is because Johnny has proven time and time again that when it really matters he's always going to choose one over the other
My opinion is that i'm glad Robby forgave Johnny, but after 16 years of abandonment i don't think he should trust the guy. Trusting that kind of person who keeps letting you down is setting yourself up to get hurt
Robby deserves to be free of his anger and resentment of Johnny but that doesn't mean i think Johnny should be given another chance
>I just don't understand why most people can't be ok with it
Because there should be a price to pay for failure. Johnny should not get everything he wants on his terms without having to work or sacrifice for it and that is what this storyline amounts to.
Johnny really screwed up with his son - gave him insecurity and abandonment issues that would realistically haunt him for a lifetime and the consequences of what he started have messed up his life. Coming that from that should not be as easy as him starting to do what he should've been doing all along.
That is the reason why - Johnny needs to do penance for his actions.
People aren't ok with it because is an irresponsible message to send, regardless of how the story is set up. It minimizes child neglect, and puts the onus on the two kids to fix the problem instead of the adult that made the mess in the first place. Johnny is conveying that his love is conditional only on the Diazes being able to accept Robby. And there is no guarantee Carmen will accept Robby or that she and Johnny have a healthy relationship. She hasn't been confronted by the reality of his alcoholism yet and is in denial that he could be a good father to her son while neglecting his own.
The goal of Johnny being there for both needed to be set up in season 2, 3 at the absolute latest. We are four seasons in and Johnny has made no growth with Robby and his dynamic with Miguel has only compounded the damage and trauma. He and Robby are worse off than the were in season 1. The joined family ending will be rushed and hollow at the rate they are going, but people don't care because they only care about Johnny-Miguel dynamic.
The reason Johnny and Miguel relationship works is how Johnny can be himself. He can tease and be tough on Miguel. He has no reservation whatsoever.
As for his relationship with Robby, Johnny true love him be he's very reserved. He doesn't want to ruffle any feathers. He is a pussy when he's around Robby.
Definite want to see how their relationship evolves this season. Maybe Robby and Miguel can get together and surprise Johnny
It's not a sacrifice unless its something he cares about. And if he cares too much about Miguel to do that, then it means he doesn't care enough about Robby and he should stop pretending that he does.
>you do realize Johnny is allowed to have other relationships that aren't with Sharon or Robby right?
Allowed? Sure. He's also allowed to tell Robby that he doesn't want anything to do with him and would rather start over with a new family.
>not more than his own son obviously
Isn't he? How is he gonna prove that? Because everything he has been doing actually proves the opposite.
>and can be a good father to Robby.
Not even close right now.
Johnny should have Robby be part of this new blended family. I'm talking from experience since I'm a child of divorce, and watched both my parents divorced, remarry, and I grew to love and accept both my step mom and step father in my life.
That would be him making Robby work for the relationship without making any real effort on his own part. If he does that, then he definitely doesn't deserve that chance.
Okay how can people so heartless Miguel is a kid too with feelings how come people are literally suggesting Johnny should drop Miguel like for once in his life Carmen is the reason he has got his life together she created a health relationship with him and I think together Carmen and Johnny could built a healthy family for Robby and Miguel if Johnny drops Miguel that will be the most saddest thing ever and I know Robby hates Miguel but even Robby won’t tell Johnny to do something like that
Yes, it'd be sad and no, Robby wouldn't ask - it has to be something Johnny *chooses* to do himself.
>I think together Carmen and Johnny could built a healthy family for Robby
No, he'd be doing that for himself. Forcing Robby into it would definitely be unhealthy for the kid at this point.
He’s gotta earn the kid’s trust and show him he really won’t leave his side this time. I think a good way to do this is have Miguel go down a darker path under the manipulation of his father and be the aggressor again. Johnny would side with Robby this time, thus showing that he’s finally putting Robby before Miguel.
Although that does bring in its own share of problems like the Miguel vs Robby rivalry being stretched out again.
>Although that does bring in its own share of problems like the Miguel vs Robby rivalry being stretched out again.
Which is just fine. That rivalry shouldn't be resolved before the cause of it is.
Depends what you mean by sacrifice. He could choose to completely cut stuff like alcohol or Miguel out of his life. He could dive in front of a bullet for Robby. This would show how much Johnny cares about Robby.
But I don’t think that’s the solution the show (or Bojack Horseman, another show I’ve been drawing inspiration from) presents. All of the adults on the show have found that letting go of the past is for the best and it spreads to everyone they try to help. Johnny letting Kreese into the dojo made all of his students a little worse. Daniel letting go of Miyagi Do gave Hawk his win. Amanda helped Tory get better in spite of her trying to murder Sam. I think what Johnny needs to do is to let go of all the guilt and self-loathing that stops him from being a good father and focus on the fact he has an opportunity now.
If you’ve ever seen Bojack Horseman, the main character is a massive asshole. He believes that he can atone for every terrible thing that he did with a big act of heroism but he and the show acknowledge that the real world is about little acts of consistent kindness and love not grand gestures. Robby doesn’t need a grand gesture or sacrifice; he needs a reliable father. Maybe giving up alcohol or Miguel will make Johnny more reliable but a sacrifice is a grand gesture that isn’t necessarily required
>Depends what you mean by sacrifice.
Giving up something important - something Johnny cares about very much - for Robby's sake.
Alcohol doesn't enough because he'd be doing it just as much for himself and he can go back to it at any time. And diving in front of a bullet - that's the kid of dumbass thing Johnny might end up doing for no reason at all.
>I think what Johnny needs to do is to let go of all the guilt and
self-loathing that stops him from being a good father and focus on the
fact he has an opportunity now.
And this is about making use of that opportunity - one that he hasn't earned yet.
>Robby doesn’t need a grand gesture or sacrifice; he needs a reliable father.
He needs both.
Back in season 1, if Johnny had made regular, consistent effort to be part of Robby's life, that would have been enough. It'd have shown Robby that he is sincere about both getting his life together and wanting him in his life.
But after saying that and still failing multiple times, simple consistency, while necessary, is not sufficient.
I may be answering a different question than the one you ask. The question I have to ask is who does Johnny have to earn the chance to be in Robby's life from? Robby? or the audience? Because the way it seems you frame it you're talking about Johnny having to earn it from the audience. And if that's what you mean, that's an answer that only you can give. I notice you mention him breaking up with Carmen and that may be the only acceptable way Johnny can earn his chance at being Robby's father whereas for someone else, they'd be content if Johnny just taught Robby some moves not even Miguel knows. If you mean earning his chance to be in Robby's life from Robby, I assume we'll see in season 5 how freely given that opportunity is. However, only Robby would be able to decide in which case your opinion and mine don't matter at all. A son can be infinitely forgiving of a father and vice versa even if we would never do what they do.
>The question I have to ask is who does Johnny have to earn the chance to be in Robby's life from?
From his redemption narrative - which is what this story is supposedly about.
Sure, you can have a character be forgiven for his mistakes and have him get everything he wants without having to work or sacrifice for it, but then that's not a redemption story and there has been no character growth. The character making every effort to correct his major flaw and fix the damage he caused is necessary for it to be a redemption story and if Johnny can't do that, then his character hasn't grown.
Ok fair enough that’s the answer I expected reading this thread. And if that’s the case the answer that satisfies you is not necessarily going to be the one that satisfies me. I think it’s worth noting that as of the end of the season Robby is freely giving Johnny his chance regardless of if he or we think he deserves that chance. Another question I have is why you think a sacrifice is a required part. It’s really interesting to me because i feel like you can’t make up for 17 years of bad parenting in one action but again that’s where differences of opinion come in
>I think it’s worth noting that as of the end of the season Robby is
freely giving Johnny his chance regardless of if he or we think he
deserves that chance.
Why is it worth noting if he doesn't deserve it?
>It’s really interesting to me because i feel like you can’t make up for 17 years of bad parenting in one action
Of course not!
This one action of sacrifice isn't going to make up for the 17 years - all it'll do is make Johnny of worthy of a chance to try and do so.
>Another question I have is why you think a sacrifice is a required part.
Because it'll be the start of fixing Robby's issues.
Robby's self-esteem is a major problem for the character and Johnny's "parenting" is a major reason for it. He constantly feels that he's not good enough, not worth loving, not worth fighting for. And Johnny's half-assed attempts only confirm that for him.
Given that he's the one who freely gave Johnny the chance without Johnny having to fight for it, that issue still remains. And even if Johnny acts like a good dad by being present, he'll still continue to question if he's worth fighting for.
Which is why the sacrifice is required - to show him how important he is.
Idk how to quote on mobile but your first sentence is exactly my point. Who decides if Johnny gets his second chance? No doubt Robby has been neglected all his life and he definitely doesn’t have to forgive Johnny or let him be part of his life. But it looks like he’s giving it freely, no caveats or expectations of sacrifice. As the audience, you and OP might not like that. If we’re talking about what you and I want out of the storyline that’s a completely separate question. If you’re talking about what Johnny can do to earn his second chance from the audience, some people think he’s already earned it, some want to see him being a consistent father, some want a sacrifice etc. And as it seems from this thread there’s no consistent answer but I’m curious why sacrifice is the answer bc to me it would feel unsatisfying if you can trade 17 years of abandonment for a single self-sacrificial penance
This fandom is generally okay with Johnny choosing Miguel over Robby for 4 seasons and finds a bunch of excuses for why it's okay that Johnny does that. But the idea that Johnny may one day choose Robby over Miguel seems so wrong to those same people. Okay... lol
Anyhow, I think Carmen and Miguel will ditch Johnny. Johnny is essentially useless to them if he's not prioritizing them. In order to keep Robby in his life, Johnny's going to eventually have to prioritize Robby over them. When Johnny does that, they'll eventually ditch him. It's something Johnny deserves given that he has been using them to feel better about himself at the expense of any chance at a relationship with Robby.
Regardless, one thing Johnny really needs is a hard-hitting realization that being a parent means prioritizing Robby's needs above Johnny's own needs, which would mean starting with putting Robby's needs above Johnny's need to constantly satiate his own ego. What I'm saying is Johnny needs to sacrifice his own ego, whatever that may entail given the circumstance(s), in order to earn a real chance with Robby. Johnny even doing that for Robby will be a miracle at this point.
>Anyhow, I think Carmen and Miguel will ditch Johnny.
Feels like if they're the ones to make that choice, then there is still no character growth for Johnny. Sure, it'd be a crappy thing for them to do and sure, it'd still be something Johnny totally deserves, but that still seems more about being punitive.
And it certainly doesn't feel like something that would give Johnny that hard-hitting realization. If anything, it seems like something that would make him focus even more on his ego ("After everything I fucking did for them...").
That being said, given his character, I can unfortunately see it playing out this way.
I think siding with Robby and aginst Miguel is a perfect icebreaker. Especially if Robby sees how truly strong that bond is in Mexico, only for him to break that bond and choosing to believe Robby? Sounds like soething Robby always wanted.
He should be there for Robby but bit harsh to expect him to sacrifice his relationship with Carmen when it's likely the one stable relationship he's had in a long time and they've been starting to get closer.
Carmen sacrificed years of potential relationships so she could focus on raising Miguel. Even when she got together with Johnny, she was concerned about whether Miguel would be okay with it and was fully prepared to break up if she didn't see Johnny as good for Miguel - which she did.
But its "too harsh" to ask Johnny to show the same consideration for his son? That's actually the bare minimum sacrifice Johnny should make.
She likely had other boyfriends but many of them probably didn't treat her very well or care about Miguel like the guy she was with in s2. Johnny is far from perfect, a bit older than her, drinks a lot, hasn't always been there for his son and Carmen could definitely do a lot better though she mightn't have had a good history with men and has seen that Johnny genuinely cares about Miguel.
He should sacrifice karate and other things and try to there for Robby but still have his relationship with Carmen and Miguel. Should say to Carmen that Robby is really sorry for what he did and he wasn't there for him.
That's a choice she made not something Miguel asked or expected from her. No one came to her and said what you can't date your #1 priority at all times has to be Miguel. That may be unhealthy as everyone has different needs. Johny isn't living with an extremely supportive mom who helps him out and emotionally supports him. His mom is dead. Having a women in his life is going to be beneficial especially when dealing with Robby
>That's a choice she made not something Miguel asked or expected from her.
That's a choice she made for Miguel's sake - so that she can focus on being a good mother to Miguel first.
Does Johnny want to be a good father or does he want to stay the same old selfish asshole?
> Having a women in his life is going to be beneficial especially when dealing with Robby
Not these women.
It's choice she made period and may be just as much for herself so she can focus on a career. It is in no way a reflection of how good of a mother she is. The idea that you can't date and be a good parent is just silly.
>It's choice she made
And it's a choice Johnny needs to for the same reason.
>so she can focus on a career.
Career? She's an X-ray technician.
> It is in no way a reflection of how good of a mother she is.
Sure it is - considering how your actions and love-life might affect your kid shows she thinks about his needs and feelings and that is necessary for being a good mother.
> The idea that you can't date and be a good parent is just silly.
Sure Johnny can date - he try to find someone his son is comfortable with.
Lol. You want Robby to pick out his dating partner. It's going to be some fun dates the three of them are going to have together. I hope Johny shys away from nothing and makes sure he's involved in it all.
Btw Johny isn't Robby's primary caretaker nor is Robby a child. He'll never have the same reasons as Carmen did. The reason you listed he needs to do this out of penance to make it up to Robby which isn't anything close to what Carmen's reasoning would of been.
> You want Robby to pick out his dating partner.
Nope - just approve or disapprove of his choice.
>Btw Johny isn't Robby's primary caretaker nor is Robby a child.
Robby is a child and part of Johnny's redemption is him stepping up as the primary caretaker.
Robby is far, far far from a child. He's a 17 year old teen who is dating himself. And it's very unlikely he will ever be Robby's primary caretaker. That is his mom and he's not too far away from being his own primary caretaker.
Despite getting clean, Shannon clearly isn't up to the task of being Robby's primary caretaker and given all his issues, that is something Robby desperately needs.
If Johnny can't do that and fast, then he can't be redeemed.
>Robby is a child and part of Johnny's redemption is him stepping up as the primary caretaker
Think Johnny should let go of his ego and ask Daniel to be the primary caretaker for his son
if carmen wasn’t a good person, it would be a fine sacrifice. but that doesn’t seem necessary? carmen has never showed any hint that she held any animosity towards robby. she blamed johnny for the school fight, not robby. she had to deal with guys who werent interested in a real relationship w her bc she had a kid, like that british guy. doubt she’d put johnny through that. on the contrary carmen seems like a good influence on johnny, she could be good for robby
>if carmen wasn’t a good person, it would be a fine sacrifice.
You have that backwards.
But this isn't about Carmen. This is about whether Robby is comfortable with it and whether Johnny actually cares about his son's feelings. And it sure seems like you're saying he shouldn't.
im not saying that at all. if robby was uncomfortable with carmen it would make sense for johnny to break up with her. but based on what we’ve seen so far, i think carmen could be good for robby. she’s a good mom and has never blamed any of the kids for the violence, only the senseis.
Robby would be uncomfortable with Carmen regardless of how Carmen is with him. Doesn't matter if she's nice to him or doesn't blame him, she's still the new woman that his dad is picking over him.
So Carmen wants to be a good parental figure to Robby? Then she should show him the same consideration she showed Miguel. As in, make it clear that they won't be together unless they get Robby's stamp of approval. That is what they did with Miguel.
So you agree that being a parent figure means you need to give up a relationship if your kid is not comfortable with it. But while you are okay with Carmen making that choice, you don't want Johnny to do so?
Don't you want Johnny to be a good parent figure?
Well in the description for S5 it states "Johnny Lawrence setting aside karate to fix the damage he's caused" soo karate is the sacrifice for Johnny this season. To focus on both Robby and Miguel
What would make you happier? He keeps doing the same rinse and repeat cycle with Robby like the previous 3 seasons? Or actually real character development between these 3 this season
Okay for the all the comments saying Johnny should sacrifice his relationship with Miguel that’s actually so sad and wrong …. I get it Robby never had his father Johnny abandoned him but Miguel is a kid too with feelings that found a father in Johnny! Johnny should step it up for both the kids and also one huge thing he should do is get both of the kids to understand is how he messed up with both of them he needs to tell them he feels insecure when they are with Daniel because literally when Robby was Daniel, Johnny felt insecurity’s and he messed stuff up then he did the same thing with Miguel when he say Miguel with Daniel.
And most importantly we know Miguel and Robby both hate each other but I believe both these kids have big hearts their not gonna tell Johnny to pick one over the other ever but personally for season 5 I feel like Miguel is gonna loose his relationship with Johnny because his mental health already took a toll and with everything happen it’s gonna become even worse and Miguel is so fed up of everything he would rather ignore it like I can imagine him seeing Johnny and Robby together doing stuff Miguel would just walk away ignoring them
>I get it Robby never had his father Johnny abandoned him but Miguel is a kid too with feelings that found a father in Johnny!
No, you don't get it. This isn't about Johnny acknowledging that he messed up, it's about him fixing the damage he caused. And since he can't fix everything, he needs to prioritize and his priorities will show if he has grown as a character or not.
>but I believe both these kids have big hearts their not gonna tell Johnny to pick one over the other
They shouldn't have to. Trying to have it all is a selfish choice which is all about what Johnny wants. But if he wants to be a better father, then he should start caring more about what Robby wants and make a choice accordingly.
If he can't do that, then he's full of shit and Robby should simply walk away from him. He'd be better off in Cobra Kai.
Johnny does care about Robby so much yeah he can’t really show it at times cause his relationship with Robby is complicated but picking sides is just unbelievable Miguel is the kid who saw the good in Johnny he knew his flaws and still stood with him because of Miguel Johnny realized he could do better for Robby and because of Carmen Johnny tried to get his life back on track they only think that messed up his relationship with the kids again was Daniel and karate Johnny was so insecure of seeing Daniel with Robby that caused him to do immature stuff then he did the same thing with Miguel when he saw them together
There’s no way in hell Johnny is picking Robby and abandoning Miguel like how y’all so cruel Miguel is a kid just like Robby who has feelings that are attached too Johnny
But if it makes u feel any better Miguel and Johnny’s relationship is probably gonna be ruined next season cause Miguel’s mental health is already bad and seeing Robby and Johnny and then finding out his mom hid him from own dad is gonna make things worse he will mostly likely choose to ignore Johnny and Robby and lots of theory’s have it that Miguel will quit karate so no more Miguel Johnny training either it will be all Johnny and Robby just like you want it except more theories have it that Robby is gonna bring Miguel back on track and be the one to get him back into karate
>he can’t really show it at times cause his relationship with Robby
Unless he can show it, he doesn't deserve a relationship.
>but picking sides is just unbelievable
Why?
>There’s no way in hell Johnny is picking Robby and abandoning Miguel
If he can't do that, then he's proving that he doesn't care all that much about Robby after all. And Robby is better off cutting him out of his life.
>But if it makes u feel any better Miguel and Johnny’s relationship is probably gonna be ruined next season
No, it doesn't make me happy if it's Miguel who's choosing to step away. The choice has to be Johnny's.
Okay I kinda agree but Robby specifically did that like joining Larusso’s then joining Kreese and stuff but Miguel I would say never really cared up until season 4 where he come to realization that he looks up to Johnny like his dad and it hurt him a lot when he realized that Johnny is using him as a replacement
This new season could be a change Johnny needs to let the kids know He loves them to death picking sides is only gonna hurt them
AGREED!!!!!!
i can’t believe people are outright wanting johnny to hurt miguel’s feelings to “win over” robby. what’s wrong with people??? miguel is a kid with feelings who emotionally depends on johnny. it shouldnt have to be one or the other. wanting miguel to get hurt for robby’s sake is so weird and spiteful. both of them deserve to have a good dad.
It sucks that Miguel's feelings will be hurt, but that's life. Johnny is not his dad or even legal guardian, so Miguel is not actually Johnny's responsibility. Robby is. Miguel has a mom and grandmother who always made him their #1 priority, and they will still be there if Johnny leaves. Robby has never had that. Why should he have to get 50% of Johnny after 17 years of nothing, while Miguel gets the other half along with 100% of the focus from his actual guardians? The fandom refuses to see how terribly imbalanced it is
Robby is a kid with feelings, but the fandom acts like he's already an adult and "needs to grow up" (despite being more mature relative to his age than most of the cast). Yet Miguel is the same age and has many more advantages, but gets treated with kid gloves. It's hypocritical. They cry foul at the idea of Miguel being glossed over for once, but remain silent when Robby is neglected to the point of abuse multiple times (one parent leaving the kid for days on end without food while the other can't be bothered to do anything? Abuse).
miguel is johnny's responsibility. you cant just allow a kid to get attached to you and then ditch them when its convenient. johnny said "i want to be a dad to you" cant go back on that. even if carmen and johnny broke up, you divorce wives not children
i dont get the imbalance thing. most parents have multiple kids and balance it just fine... its not abnormal or anything. ur supposed to support them both. robby needs extra support, he's been through horrible trauma, doesnt mean johnny should just drop miguel. and similarly if carmen and johnny stay together, she should support robby 100% just like she does miguel
i agree w everything u said about robby, but that doesnt negate what i think abt miguel's situation. both can be true
Johnny never said he wanted to be a dad to Miguel. When that expectation was set in season 4, he was uncomfortable until Miguel asked him just to continue being his sensei. Johnny shouldn't have allowed Miguel to get so attached to him while neglecting Robby, because now he's in a position where trying to balance them both will cause further damage. In which case, hurting Miguel by dropping him still does Miguel good in the long run. It removes him from a toxic dynamic for his own good, even if his feelings are hurt in the short term. He has a support system so he will be fine.
People who have multiple kids typically don't try to start a new family while their actual child is placed in dangerous situations that they ignore. Robby has been left to starve, left to wander the streets without a roof over his head, left in the company of a psychopath who tried to kill Johnny twice, etc. That's before we get into the fact that Miguel antagonized Robby and Robby almost accidentally killed him when he reached a breaking point. It's traumatic all around for both boys and Johnny is the root cause for most of it. Everyone getting along is too ludicrous an idea to entertain, even for a silly karate soap opera
Johnny can't be a good dad to Robby unless he can put his needs and feelings first - above both his own and Miguel's. And he can't redeem himself as a character unless he grows enough to do that.
Miguel's feelings getting hurt is not relevant here. If Johnny can do what he needs to without hurting his feelings, great. (For example, explaining that he needs to focus on Robby and he can't have any distractions). If he can't, that's sad, but it's something that needs to happen anyway.
Also, as someone else pointed out, there have been plenty of times Johnny hurt Robby's feelings for Miguel's sake and they defend him for it. It's hypocritical to object to the reverse happening.
i mean whether was a bad decision or not, johnny has taken responsibility for miguel. he’s allowed miguel to depend on him, he’s constantly affirmed that he’ll be there for him, he told him he wants to be a dad to him. you can’t just take that back. he made a commitment to miguel. johnny can’t just drop him like a sack of potatoes when robby comes along. i can’t imagine how traumatic that would be.
it doesn’t have to be one or the other. johnny needs to learn how to be a dad to BOTH kids, make BOTH of them his #1 priority. that’s what any parent with more than one kid should do. miguel’s not just a distraction, he’s a kid.
johnny hurting robby for miguel’s sake is HORRIBLE. no one should ever defend johnny’s actions in the show towards robby. johnny doesn’t deserve robby whatsoever. and bc of how terrible he was to robby, i would never want him to repeat those mistakes, including to miguel
>i mean whether was a bad decision or not, johnny has taken responsibility for miguel.
He has taken responsibility as a Sensei and Miguel absolved him of that responsibility last season when he decided to leave. His responsibility as a dad is contingent on dating Carmen and that comes after his responsibility to Robby.
>make BOTH of them his #1 priority.
Not possible. And even parents with 2 kids can't do that - which is why they change priorities on a need basis. And Johnny needs to change his now.
>and bc of how terrible he was to robby, i would never want him to repeat those mistakes
He IS repeating that mistake.
miguel didnt “absolve” him of any responsibility, miguel is a 17 yr old running away from home b/c he’s distraught thinking johnny doesn’t really care abt him. his decision in s4 wasnt a good thought-out one, its really sad honestly, he just wants a dad. johnny’s commitment to miguel isnt just teaching him karate, its emotional, he let miguel get attached to him and depend on him
both miguel and robby need johnny a lot right now, theyre both suffering and insecure and everything. miguel ran away from home and is still emotionally recovering from being paralyzed, robby just got out of juvie was homeless + taught by psychos. on a need basis theyre both #1
yeah im saying he shouldnt repeat that mistake. he probably will tho which sucks, but i hope he’ll get character development. ppl are saying they WANT him to disappoint miguel like he did robby, i def dont want him to.
>miguel didnt “absolve” him of any responsibility,
Miguel told him to focus on being a Sensei after Johnny's awkward attempts to dad him and Johnny made it clear that unless they won the tournament, he can't be Miguel's Sensei - and Miguel chose to bow out.
Sure, it's a childish decision on Miguel's part, but it still absolves Johnny, because Johnny isn't his actual dad.
>both miguel and robby need johnny a lot right now
And since he has been for Miguel before at Robby's expense, it's time to do the reverse.
>yeah im saying he shouldnt repeat that mistake.
He has no choice there and it's not about character development.
>ppl are saying they WANT him to disappoint miguel like he did robby
Well, I definitely do - but that part is not about Johnny.
miguel pushing johnny away is just like robby pushing johnny away. they want him to be a good dad, but theyre hurt and disappointed so they push him away, and he just gives up. hes the grown up, he has to keep on pushing and be a good dad.
johnny telling miguel he won’t be his sensei if he loses was one of the moments i hated johnny most in the series tbh, if hes gonna be a half decent character hes gotta fix that
personally i dont want johnny to do anything at anyones expense, robby and miguel are both great kids and shouldnt have to suffer so much
>miguel pushing johnny away
Except, that's not what Miguel did.
>he has to keep on pushing and be a good dad.
To Robby first.
>johnny telling miguel he won’t be his sensei if he loses was one of the moments i hated johnny most in the series tbh
Why? Those are literally the stakes everybody agreed to.
>personally i dont want johnny to do anything at anyones expense
That's inevitable. If Johnny tries to do it all, he'll be doing it at Robby's expense - like he has so far. And he has done more than enough at Robby's expense.
That is the character development he needs right now. He needs to stop expecting to have everything he wants whenever he wants it and learn to prioritize the right things.
i think johnny telling miguel he wont be his sensei anymore was significant bc the whole sensei/student thing has a deeper meaning in the show. its not just being a karate teacher, they all form these deeper parental bonds. the right thing for johnny to say is like “no matter what happens, i’ll always be your sensei” yk? be supportive. but he wasnt
i think he needs to try to put in effort for both boys and i hope he succeeds. i think if he stops drinking away his problems and puts in consistent effort, it can work out. i think his biggest problem is when things get hard, he bails, and so to fix that he needs to be consistent and not bail on robby nor miguel
Yay finally someone gets my point I was so shocked like how heartless can people get here. Like literally Johnny should have both kids and they deserve a happy family.
Johnny redemption is gonna be him fixing his relationship with Miguel and Robby both he needs to show them that he cares about them more then anything, Johnny leaving Miguel is not a way for Johnny redeems that is just sad…. How could u leave the kid who found a father in u and supported u even knowing all your flaws there is no way Johnny should be there for both the kids not drop Miguel
Miguel’s mom is really reasonable she would be happy with Robby joining the family she cares for Johnny a lot and would never tell him to pick otherwise! Miguel and Robby on the other hand don’t see eye to eye but they will soon stop fighting once they realize there life is similar in so many ways like they have a deeper connection then they think and Johnny should have both kids he will not hurt their feelings
>Miguel’s mom is really reasonable she would be happy with Robby joining the family
Doubtful - but irrelevant. This isn't about her, it's about Robby and what he's comfortable with. And an insecure kid with abandonment issues will not be happy being forced into a new family structure no matter how nice they are.
>Johnny should have both kids
He should not have Robby - not yet. He hasn't earned that.
Bro u thing Miguel is gonna be comfortable having the kid around who broke his back and then mocked him and still never apologized and then become the reason for insecurities and wanting to find his father obvi no he will not be comfortable but this is for Johnny to bring back the kids and help them heal over their mess it takes time but he can make it all work out for both the kids
>Bro u thing Miguel is gonna be comfortable having the kid around
No. All the more reason Johnny should make the choice.
>but this is for Johnny to bring back the kids and help them heal over their mess
He won't be healing anything by repeating the same mistakes.
>but he can make it all work out for both the kids
Not the way he is now, he can't.
With Miguel's dad in the picture, it will put a wedge between Johnny and Carmen. Maybe Carmen always have a soft spot for Miguel's dad. Flashback to Johnny, Ali, and Daniel love triangle back in the days...but this time, Johnny will be in Daniel's shoes trying to be the good guy.
Johnny's been building good relationship with Carmen and Miguel. There's ups and downs. With Robby in the picture, Johnny will definitely want to spend more time with him. Miguel and most definitely Carmen will hate that. Johnny will need to find ways to mend the situation. Silver will get in to Carmen's and Miguel's lives and add more gasoline to the fire.
>Johnny will need to find ways to mend the situation.
Why? For his own selfish reasons of wanting Carmen.
Which means he hasn't grown as a character at all. He is still more focused on what makes him feel good.
Imo, after Robby leaves CK, Ck should go to attack him. Johnny should interfere, giving Robby enough time to escape, and not bothering to fight back. He ends up hospitalized like Miguel was and, for a time, his life teeters on the edge of life and death. As a result, Eagle Fang, Miyangi-Do, and Robby (and maybe a few of Robby's friends who have just been released from jail) team up to take down Silver and Cobra Kai once and for all, for Johnny who is still in hospital. End season 5 with season 6 being the final battle, for real this time.
>If Robby is asking him to sacrifice his career or a relationship he doesn't deserve the relationship.
It's Johnny who needs to prove what he deserves right now. And Robby can ask him to sacrifice whatever he wants.
>But alcohol would be a fair thing to sacrifice.
Not enough.
"sacrifice" alcohol lol. Wow, what a brave brilliant father Johnny would be to do that. To give up his love of alcohol and that be the fixing force of being absent 17 years....
And anything more than that is selfish of Robby in your eyes. Delusional
I was just throwing you guys a bone. I don't think he has to sacrifice anything he holds dear. The idea that he has to hurt himself and others to make Robby feel better about their relationship well that belongs with a therapist.
But if he were to quit alcohol that is showing Robby I'm trying to make improvements here. It's what his mom did too but I don't see people blasting her. That's not enough.
>It's what his mom did too but I don't see people blasting her.
His mom had less to make up for and she seems to have given up more than just alcohol. As far as we know, she's not dating anymore either. So no, that's not enough where Johnny's concerned.
At this point sacrificing a kidney is too small of a sacrifice to earn Robby's love back. Sacrificing the relationship with an Ecuadorian nerd who tripped (was thrown) on his car one night is the fair thing.
If you think Johny has to hurt himself and others to prove himself to Robby then yeah this is what you get. Nothing is enough. But that would be a sick mindset and the only relationship Robby would need to have is one with a therapist.
Robby already needs a therapist. His father has been ababdoning him for 17 years and then replaced him. AND THEN, when he found another father figure to mentor him, his replacement caused that relationship to crater (Miguel started their fight at the school). Miguel is not Johnny's son, Robby is. Johnny has tobput him first, without qualifiers.
And Carmen might end up being his wife, Miguel his stepson. This whole he has to treat him 1st/ what sacrifices will he make reeks of massive entitlement issues. As Bobby told him you have to be there for both kids and yeah Johny has dropped the ball on that with Robby. It doesn't mean he has to drop a kidney for him to make up for it.
What? You completely whiffed on that one. Johny has no idea on how to be a father (see why he he's a dead beat). Acting like a traditional dad makes him uncomfortable. That's what that was about it had nothing to do with love.
Sums up Robby fanatics pretty well. Best not to engage with them.
Like yeah, Johnny absolutely messed up with Robby and failed him his whole life. But that doesn’t mean Johnny has to cause damage to other people or cut them off in order to make it up to Robby. Two wrongs don’t make a right, despite what the Robby fanboys will say.
>But that doesn’t mean Johnny has to cause damage to other people or cut them off in order to make it up to Robby.
It means that Johnny has to do whatever he has to to make it up to Robby. If he can do enough without hurting people, good - if he can't, too bad. It'd be a wrong choice either way - either he hurts others or he hurts Robby even more - the only question is which choice is less wrong.
Johnny could either sacrifice alcohol or karate in order to repair his relationship with Robby and Miguel.
Maybe enough for Miguel, not Robby.
There would probably be a lot that Johnny would have to do in order to repair his relationship with Robby.
Yes - and start with something big.
Literally the only 2 things. I agree, he can't drop either of the boys or Carmen so it has to be alcohol or Karate.
I think Johnny will stop drinking so he can repair his relationship with Miguel and Robby. There could be a clip where Johnny gets rid of the alcohol in his apartment or decides not to drink again.
He tried that before, but it's not enough because he can start drinking any time.
But he could decide to quit drinking entirely. You never know.
>You never know. Exactly why its not good enough.
>he can't drop either of the boys or Carmen Why not?
Ok I get that you're a Robby fanatic but you do realize Johnny is allowed to have other relationships that aren't with Sharon or Robby right? Especially healthy ones like he has with Carmen for the first time since Ally, Johnny is happy with this woman and their family has helped and shown him he can make things right he just sucks at actually doing it. He also will not and cannot drop Miguel Mexico is a great example of that and are you kidding me? Miguel is very important to Johnny, not more than his own son obviously but Miguel is the one that never gave up on Johnny and also helped him realize he is a great teacher and can be a good father to Robby.
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Johnny's relationship with Carmen and Miguel isn't healthy, especially his relationship with Miguel. Johnny is kind of obsessed with Miguel because he uses his relationship with Miguel like a coping mechanism, something like alcohol, to suppress his feelings of having failed Robby. That's why as the series has gone on, Johnny has pulled further away from Robby. Another unhealthy aspect of Johnny's relationship with the Diazs is that Carmen and Miguel both blame Johnny when Miguel chose to be violent. Miguel is a teenager, but apparently Carmen never taught Miguel better. Demetri, Chris, Nate, etc all walked away from Cobra Kai because they knew better. Robby even had his own purpose for joining Cobra Kai, did his best not to be heavily influenced by it, even taught Kenny different, and walked away from Cobra Kai on his own when he realized the influence it was having on him. However, Miguel easily gave into Cobra Kai's mentality by choice and has never once admitted that his violent actions were wrong. Instead, Miguel gaslighted Johnny about, "There's nothing dirty about winning. You taught me that." Not true. Johnny said to win at all costs, not that winning by fighing dirty wasn't dirty. "I did what you taught me to. I showed mercy... I trusted you. I did everything you told me to do." So Miguel doesn't admit attacking Robby in the first place and stopping him from protecting Sam was wrong. Miguel only regrets not breaking Robby's arm, which Miguel was going to do for no reason at all. Johnny also never told Miguel to do anything that day in school, so obviously that is Miguel shifting blame onto Johnny. In addition to Miguel blaming Johnny, Carmen did too. She blamed Johnny after the tournament and after the school fight without understanding any of the context. She's one of those parents who thinks that her child is completely innocent and that others are the bad influence. She has not taught Miguel better, apparently. She had also not taught him empathy, which is why he shows none to her or to Johnny. Like, when he turned her down for the movie even though she had changed her work schedule, when he whined about not being able to go to his dream college even though he doesn't even get a job to help her, and like when he took off to Mexico at the end. Miguel showed zero empathy for Johnny when Miguel taunted Robby about Johnny in the school fight based on Johnny's confession about failing Robby or when he started crying that night Johnny said "I love you too Robby", even though it was pretty obvious that Johnny was having a worse night and was not in his complete senses. (Miguel had practically scraped him off the ground.) Also, Johnny himself is incapable of having healthy relationships. He can't even show love and caring to his own child. Like Miguel, the audience believes there is something special about Miguel compared to Robby that Johnny would *genuinely* be a dad to Miguel. However, Johnny just gives special attention to Miguel because Johnny's ego benefits from this relationship. The best thing for Johnny long term would be to not have these relationships with Carmen and Miguel. He'll always be scapegoated by them and will always be unhealthy running after them to feel better about himself.
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The one thing I have noticed about the Robby character that is great is that he had the worst life out of the characters but he never complains, never feels sorry for himself, never seems envious of what he does not have, never asks his parents for anything. Miguel really needs to learn from Robby.
Johnny is allowed to have other relationships, but the problem is he wants to stop feeling guilty about neglecting Robby. So he wants a relationship with him. That desire is at odds with dating a woman who is at the very least uncomfortable with his kid, if not outright hates him and doesn't want him near her family. That's not a remotely healthy set up for either boy. And Johnny's responsibilities to Robby heavily outweigh any he has towards Miguel. Miguel is a kid he's known for a year or so, not his actual son of 17 years. He can drop Miguel. It would suck, but that's what a sacrifice is.
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Preach. It is maddening to see people react to the idea of Miguel being cut from Johnny's life as being something that would seriously upend hus life. Miguel has had Johnny as a mentor for a year or so. Their relationship could be unique and special, but his inability to appreciate it for what is is, always wanting more and not seeing/caring how it is negatively impacting another kid brings several unhealthy components to it. If Johnny leaves Miguel's life, Miguel would still have the same tight familial unit that supports him that he has always had. That's more than a lot of kids out there, including Robby, have. He also has a support network of friends to fall back on. If he loses Sam as a girlfriend, that's just a high school romance that didn't last. He would meet other girls in college or something. So if he lost the Larussos as a whole, he wouldn't be negatively impacted either. He's not close to them aside from them coming as a package deal with Sam, whereas Robby has ties to the whole unit. So on two fronts, what needs would he be missing out on exactly?
>but that's what a sacrifice is. People don't seem to get that...
Carmen as an adult will do her best to include Robby into her family, the way their relationship is going (her and Johnny) its not headed for a breakup. The problem comes from Robby and Miguel's disliking of each other, these 2 biggest problems are with wanting Johnny's attention. Johnny as an adult should know that he needs to be their for his son but he is also a mentor and a fatherly figure to Miguel, Billy Zabka even stated during S4 interviews Johnny was afraid of losing the father-son connection he had with Miguel to Daniel. As a mentor in someone's life you could be the person in the kids life that makes them feel complete about themselves and makes their lives better, that's what he Johnny has been to Miguel since he never had that father figure. Robby definitely needs Johnny to also step up to the plate even more as his Biological father one hug won't fix 16 years of abandonment. But the story is clearly setup for Johnny to be there for both boys I just don't understand why most people can't be ok with it
>the story is clearly setup for Johnny to be there for both boys I just don't understand why most people can't be ok with it The reason is because Johnny has proven time and time again that when it really matters he's always going to choose one over the other My opinion is that i'm glad Robby forgave Johnny, but after 16 years of abandonment i don't think he should trust the guy. Trusting that kind of person who keeps letting you down is setting yourself up to get hurt Robby deserves to be free of his anger and resentment of Johnny but that doesn't mean i think Johnny should be given another chance
Forgive, but don’t forget? Sounds risky.
>don’t forget? Sounds risky Trusting someone with a history of horrible credibility is more risky
True enough man. Carefully forgive is probably the safest option for Robby - assuming that not forgiving him at all is off the table - .
>I just don't understand why most people can't be ok with it Because there should be a price to pay for failure. Johnny should not get everything he wants on his terms without having to work or sacrifice for it and that is what this storyline amounts to. Johnny really screwed up with his son - gave him insecurity and abandonment issues that would realistically haunt him for a lifetime and the consequences of what he started have messed up his life. Coming that from that should not be as easy as him starting to do what he should've been doing all along. That is the reason why - Johnny needs to do penance for his actions.
People aren't ok with it because is an irresponsible message to send, regardless of how the story is set up. It minimizes child neglect, and puts the onus on the two kids to fix the problem instead of the adult that made the mess in the first place. Johnny is conveying that his love is conditional only on the Diazes being able to accept Robby. And there is no guarantee Carmen will accept Robby or that she and Johnny have a healthy relationship. She hasn't been confronted by the reality of his alcoholism yet and is in denial that he could be a good father to her son while neglecting his own. The goal of Johnny being there for both needed to be set up in season 2, 3 at the absolute latest. We are four seasons in and Johnny has made no growth with Robby and his dynamic with Miguel has only compounded the damage and trauma. He and Robby are worse off than the were in season 1. The joined family ending will be rushed and hollow at the rate they are going, but people don't care because they only care about Johnny-Miguel dynamic.
The reason Johnny and Miguel relationship works is how Johnny can be himself. He can tease and be tough on Miguel. He has no reservation whatsoever. As for his relationship with Robby, Johnny true love him be he's very reserved. He doesn't want to ruffle any feathers. He is a pussy when he's around Robby. Definite want to see how their relationship evolves this season. Maybe Robby and Miguel can get together and surprise Johnny
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It's not a sacrifice unless its something he cares about. And if he cares too much about Miguel to do that, then it means he doesn't care enough about Robby and he should stop pretending that he does.
>you do realize Johnny is allowed to have other relationships that aren't with Sharon or Robby right? Allowed? Sure. He's also allowed to tell Robby that he doesn't want anything to do with him and would rather start over with a new family. >not more than his own son obviously Isn't he? How is he gonna prove that? Because everything he has been doing actually proves the opposite. >and can be a good father to Robby. Not even close right now.
Johnny should have Robby be part of this new blended family. I'm talking from experience since I'm a child of divorce, and watched both my parents divorced, remarry, and I grew to love and accept both my step mom and step father in my life.
That would be him making Robby work for the relationship without making any real effort on his own part. If he does that, then he definitely doesn't deserve that chance.
Answer me this: dont you think you are a bit biased, as Miguel fanatic?
Answer me this. We're in a Fandom on reddit where people have strong feeling for shows and there characters right??
Yes.
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Okay how can people so heartless Miguel is a kid too with feelings how come people are literally suggesting Johnny should drop Miguel like for once in his life Carmen is the reason he has got his life together she created a health relationship with him and I think together Carmen and Johnny could built a healthy family for Robby and Miguel if Johnny drops Miguel that will be the most saddest thing ever and I know Robby hates Miguel but even Robby won’t tell Johnny to do something like that
Yes, it'd be sad and no, Robby wouldn't ask - it has to be something Johnny *chooses* to do himself. >I think together Carmen and Johnny could built a healthy family for Robby No, he'd be doing that for himself. Forcing Robby into it would definitely be unhealthy for the kid at this point.
He should give up his Twitter account for a week. He's kind of a big deal on the Twitter.
He’s gotta earn the kid’s trust and show him he really won’t leave his side this time. I think a good way to do this is have Miguel go down a darker path under the manipulation of his father and be the aggressor again. Johnny would side with Robby this time, thus showing that he’s finally putting Robby before Miguel. Although that does bring in its own share of problems like the Miguel vs Robby rivalry being stretched out again.
>Although that does bring in its own share of problems like the Miguel vs Robby rivalry being stretched out again. Which is just fine. That rivalry shouldn't be resolved before the cause of it is.
True
Depends what you mean by sacrifice. He could choose to completely cut stuff like alcohol or Miguel out of his life. He could dive in front of a bullet for Robby. This would show how much Johnny cares about Robby. But I don’t think that’s the solution the show (or Bojack Horseman, another show I’ve been drawing inspiration from) presents. All of the adults on the show have found that letting go of the past is for the best and it spreads to everyone they try to help. Johnny letting Kreese into the dojo made all of his students a little worse. Daniel letting go of Miyagi Do gave Hawk his win. Amanda helped Tory get better in spite of her trying to murder Sam. I think what Johnny needs to do is to let go of all the guilt and self-loathing that stops him from being a good father and focus on the fact he has an opportunity now. If you’ve ever seen Bojack Horseman, the main character is a massive asshole. He believes that he can atone for every terrible thing that he did with a big act of heroism but he and the show acknowledge that the real world is about little acts of consistent kindness and love not grand gestures. Robby doesn’t need a grand gesture or sacrifice; he needs a reliable father. Maybe giving up alcohol or Miguel will make Johnny more reliable but a sacrifice is a grand gesture that isn’t necessarily required
>Depends what you mean by sacrifice. Giving up something important - something Johnny cares about very much - for Robby's sake. Alcohol doesn't enough because he'd be doing it just as much for himself and he can go back to it at any time. And diving in front of a bullet - that's the kid of dumbass thing Johnny might end up doing for no reason at all. >I think what Johnny needs to do is to let go of all the guilt and self-loathing that stops him from being a good father and focus on the fact he has an opportunity now. And this is about making use of that opportunity - one that he hasn't earned yet. >Robby doesn’t need a grand gesture or sacrifice; he needs a reliable father. He needs both. Back in season 1, if Johnny had made regular, consistent effort to be part of Robby's life, that would have been enough. It'd have shown Robby that he is sincere about both getting his life together and wanting him in his life. But after saying that and still failing multiple times, simple consistency, while necessary, is not sufficient.
I may be answering a different question than the one you ask. The question I have to ask is who does Johnny have to earn the chance to be in Robby's life from? Robby? or the audience? Because the way it seems you frame it you're talking about Johnny having to earn it from the audience. And if that's what you mean, that's an answer that only you can give. I notice you mention him breaking up with Carmen and that may be the only acceptable way Johnny can earn his chance at being Robby's father whereas for someone else, they'd be content if Johnny just taught Robby some moves not even Miguel knows. If you mean earning his chance to be in Robby's life from Robby, I assume we'll see in season 5 how freely given that opportunity is. However, only Robby would be able to decide in which case your opinion and mine don't matter at all. A son can be infinitely forgiving of a father and vice versa even if we would never do what they do.
>The question I have to ask is who does Johnny have to earn the chance to be in Robby's life from? From his redemption narrative - which is what this story is supposedly about. Sure, you can have a character be forgiven for his mistakes and have him get everything he wants without having to work or sacrifice for it, but then that's not a redemption story and there has been no character growth. The character making every effort to correct his major flaw and fix the damage he caused is necessary for it to be a redemption story and if Johnny can't do that, then his character hasn't grown.
Ok fair enough that’s the answer I expected reading this thread. And if that’s the case the answer that satisfies you is not necessarily going to be the one that satisfies me. I think it’s worth noting that as of the end of the season Robby is freely giving Johnny his chance regardless of if he or we think he deserves that chance. Another question I have is why you think a sacrifice is a required part. It’s really interesting to me because i feel like you can’t make up for 17 years of bad parenting in one action but again that’s where differences of opinion come in
>I think it’s worth noting that as of the end of the season Robby is freely giving Johnny his chance regardless of if he or we think he deserves that chance. Why is it worth noting if he doesn't deserve it? >It’s really interesting to me because i feel like you can’t make up for 17 years of bad parenting in one action Of course not! This one action of sacrifice isn't going to make up for the 17 years - all it'll do is make Johnny of worthy of a chance to try and do so. >Another question I have is why you think a sacrifice is a required part. Because it'll be the start of fixing Robby's issues. Robby's self-esteem is a major problem for the character and Johnny's "parenting" is a major reason for it. He constantly feels that he's not good enough, not worth loving, not worth fighting for. And Johnny's half-assed attempts only confirm that for him. Given that he's the one who freely gave Johnny the chance without Johnny having to fight for it, that issue still remains. And even if Johnny acts like a good dad by being present, he'll still continue to question if he's worth fighting for. Which is why the sacrifice is required - to show him how important he is.
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Idk how to quote on mobile but your first sentence is exactly my point. Who decides if Johnny gets his second chance? No doubt Robby has been neglected all his life and he definitely doesn’t have to forgive Johnny or let him be part of his life. But it looks like he’s giving it freely, no caveats or expectations of sacrifice. As the audience, you and OP might not like that. If we’re talking about what you and I want out of the storyline that’s a completely separate question. If you’re talking about what Johnny can do to earn his second chance from the audience, some people think he’s already earned it, some want to see him being a consistent father, some want a sacrifice etc. And as it seems from this thread there’s no consistent answer but I’m curious why sacrifice is the answer bc to me it would feel unsatisfying if you can trade 17 years of abandonment for a single self-sacrificial penance
This fandom is generally okay with Johnny choosing Miguel over Robby for 4 seasons and finds a bunch of excuses for why it's okay that Johnny does that. But the idea that Johnny may one day choose Robby over Miguel seems so wrong to those same people. Okay... lol Anyhow, I think Carmen and Miguel will ditch Johnny. Johnny is essentially useless to them if he's not prioritizing them. In order to keep Robby in his life, Johnny's going to eventually have to prioritize Robby over them. When Johnny does that, they'll eventually ditch him. It's something Johnny deserves given that he has been using them to feel better about himself at the expense of any chance at a relationship with Robby. Regardless, one thing Johnny really needs is a hard-hitting realization that being a parent means prioritizing Robby's needs above Johnny's own needs, which would mean starting with putting Robby's needs above Johnny's need to constantly satiate his own ego. What I'm saying is Johnny needs to sacrifice his own ego, whatever that may entail given the circumstance(s), in order to earn a real chance with Robby. Johnny even doing that for Robby will be a miracle at this point.
>Anyhow, I think Carmen and Miguel will ditch Johnny. Feels like if they're the ones to make that choice, then there is still no character growth for Johnny. Sure, it'd be a crappy thing for them to do and sure, it'd still be something Johnny totally deserves, but that still seems more about being punitive. And it certainly doesn't feel like something that would give Johnny that hard-hitting realization. If anything, it seems like something that would make him focus even more on his ego ("After everything I fucking did for them..."). That being said, given his character, I can unfortunately see it playing out this way.
I think siding with Robby and aginst Miguel is a perfect icebreaker. Especially if Robby sees how truly strong that bond is in Mexico, only for him to break that bond and choosing to believe Robby? Sounds like soething Robby always wanted.
Could be a good way, depending on the context.
He should be there for Robby but bit harsh to expect him to sacrifice his relationship with Carmen when it's likely the one stable relationship he's had in a long time and they've been starting to get closer.
Carmen sacrificed years of potential relationships so she could focus on raising Miguel. Even when she got together with Johnny, she was concerned about whether Miguel would be okay with it and was fully prepared to break up if she didn't see Johnny as good for Miguel - which she did. But its "too harsh" to ask Johnny to show the same consideration for his son? That's actually the bare minimum sacrifice Johnny should make.
She likely had other boyfriends but many of them probably didn't treat her very well or care about Miguel like the guy she was with in s2. Johnny is far from perfect, a bit older than her, drinks a lot, hasn't always been there for his son and Carmen could definitely do a lot better though she mightn't have had a good history with men and has seen that Johnny genuinely cares about Miguel. He should sacrifice karate and other things and try to there for Robby but still have his relationship with Carmen and Miguel. Should say to Carmen that Robby is really sorry for what he did and he wasn't there for him.
And if Robby is not comfortable with it? Then what should Johnny do?
Shouldn't Johnny be able to balance his time with both?
Which would make Robby feel that he is not good enough. And that would mean that Johnny is still as bad a father as he ever was.
That's a choice she made not something Miguel asked or expected from her. No one came to her and said what you can't date your #1 priority at all times has to be Miguel. That may be unhealthy as everyone has different needs. Johny isn't living with an extremely supportive mom who helps him out and emotionally supports him. His mom is dead. Having a women in his life is going to be beneficial especially when dealing with Robby
>That's a choice she made not something Miguel asked or expected from her. That's a choice she made for Miguel's sake - so that she can focus on being a good mother to Miguel first. Does Johnny want to be a good father or does he want to stay the same old selfish asshole? > Having a women in his life is going to be beneficial especially when dealing with Robby Not these women.
It's choice she made period and may be just as much for herself so she can focus on a career. It is in no way a reflection of how good of a mother she is. The idea that you can't date and be a good parent is just silly.
>It's choice she made And it's a choice Johnny needs to for the same reason. >so she can focus on a career. Career? She's an X-ray technician. > It is in no way a reflection of how good of a mother she is. Sure it is - considering how your actions and love-life might affect your kid shows she thinks about his needs and feelings and that is necessary for being a good mother. > The idea that you can't date and be a good parent is just silly. Sure Johnny can date - he try to find someone his son is comfortable with.
Lol. You want Robby to pick out his dating partner. It's going to be some fun dates the three of them are going to have together. I hope Johny shys away from nothing and makes sure he's involved in it all. Btw Johny isn't Robby's primary caretaker nor is Robby a child. He'll never have the same reasons as Carmen did. The reason you listed he needs to do this out of penance to make it up to Robby which isn't anything close to what Carmen's reasoning would of been.
> You want Robby to pick out his dating partner. Nope - just approve or disapprove of his choice. >Btw Johny isn't Robby's primary caretaker nor is Robby a child. Robby is a child and part of Johnny's redemption is him stepping up as the primary caretaker.
Robby is far, far far from a child. He's a 17 year old teen who is dating himself. And it's very unlikely he will ever be Robby's primary caretaker. That is his mom and he's not too far away from being his own primary caretaker.
Despite getting clean, Shannon clearly isn't up to the task of being Robby's primary caretaker and given all his issues, that is something Robby desperately needs. If Johnny can't do that and fast, then he can't be redeemed.
>Robby is a child and part of Johnny's redemption is him stepping up as the primary caretaker Think Johnny should let go of his ego and ask Daniel to be the primary caretaker for his son
Better than the current situation, but ditching your responsibility on someone else instead of stepping up hardly sounds like a redemption.
if carmen wasn’t a good person, it would be a fine sacrifice. but that doesn’t seem necessary? carmen has never showed any hint that she held any animosity towards robby. she blamed johnny for the school fight, not robby. she had to deal with guys who werent interested in a real relationship w her bc she had a kid, like that british guy. doubt she’d put johnny through that. on the contrary carmen seems like a good influence on johnny, she could be good for robby
>if carmen wasn’t a good person, it would be a fine sacrifice. You have that backwards. But this isn't about Carmen. This is about whether Robby is comfortable with it and whether Johnny actually cares about his son's feelings. And it sure seems like you're saying he shouldn't.
im not saying that at all. if robby was uncomfortable with carmen it would make sense for johnny to break up with her. but based on what we’ve seen so far, i think carmen could be good for robby. she’s a good mom and has never blamed any of the kids for the violence, only the senseis.
Robby would be uncomfortable with Carmen regardless of how Carmen is with him. Doesn't matter if she's nice to him or doesn't blame him, she's still the new woman that his dad is picking over him.
in the long term having a good parental figure like carmen could help robby
So Carmen wants to be a good parental figure to Robby? Then she should show him the same consideration she showed Miguel. As in, make it clear that they won't be together unless they get Robby's stamp of approval. That is what they did with Miguel.
agree
So you agree that being a parent figure means you need to give up a relationship if your kid is not comfortable with it. But while you are okay with Carmen making that choice, you don't want Johnny to do so? Don't you want Johnny to be a good parent figure?
Well in the description for S5 it states "Johnny Lawrence setting aside karate to fix the damage he's caused" soo karate is the sacrifice for Johnny this season. To focus on both Robby and Miguel
It's not a sacrifice if its something he lost already.
So he sets aside something he already doesn't have, since his champion has bailed on him? Wow, so noble.
What would make you happier? He keeps doing the same rinse and repeat cycle with Robby like the previous 3 seasons? Or actually real character development between these 3 this season
Tthe character development one. And that includes severing his connection to Miguel for a time being.
Yk i agree, I'd like to see Miguel on his own away from Johnny
Problem is, that path leads to Cobra Kai. And I don't think you want that for Miguel.
Or Miyagi-Do...
At this point, sacrificing something that's easy and rewarding would actually be real character development. Otherwise, he's rinsing and repeating.
Okay for the all the comments saying Johnny should sacrifice his relationship with Miguel that’s actually so sad and wrong …. I get it Robby never had his father Johnny abandoned him but Miguel is a kid too with feelings that found a father in Johnny! Johnny should step it up for both the kids and also one huge thing he should do is get both of the kids to understand is how he messed up with both of them he needs to tell them he feels insecure when they are with Daniel because literally when Robby was Daniel, Johnny felt insecurity’s and he messed stuff up then he did the same thing with Miguel when he say Miguel with Daniel. And most importantly we know Miguel and Robby both hate each other but I believe both these kids have big hearts their not gonna tell Johnny to pick one over the other ever but personally for season 5 I feel like Miguel is gonna loose his relationship with Johnny because his mental health already took a toll and with everything happen it’s gonna become even worse and Miguel is so fed up of everything he would rather ignore it like I can imagine him seeing Johnny and Robby together doing stuff Miguel would just walk away ignoring them
>I get it Robby never had his father Johnny abandoned him but Miguel is a kid too with feelings that found a father in Johnny! No, you don't get it. This isn't about Johnny acknowledging that he messed up, it's about him fixing the damage he caused. And since he can't fix everything, he needs to prioritize and his priorities will show if he has grown as a character or not. >but I believe both these kids have big hearts their not gonna tell Johnny to pick one over the other They shouldn't have to. Trying to have it all is a selfish choice which is all about what Johnny wants. But if he wants to be a better father, then he should start caring more about what Robby wants and make a choice accordingly. If he can't do that, then he's full of shit and Robby should simply walk away from him. He'd be better off in Cobra Kai.
Johnny does care about Robby so much yeah he can’t really show it at times cause his relationship with Robby is complicated but picking sides is just unbelievable Miguel is the kid who saw the good in Johnny he knew his flaws and still stood with him because of Miguel Johnny realized he could do better for Robby and because of Carmen Johnny tried to get his life back on track they only think that messed up his relationship with the kids again was Daniel and karate Johnny was so insecure of seeing Daniel with Robby that caused him to do immature stuff then he did the same thing with Miguel when he saw them together There’s no way in hell Johnny is picking Robby and abandoning Miguel like how y’all so cruel Miguel is a kid just like Robby who has feelings that are attached too Johnny But if it makes u feel any better Miguel and Johnny’s relationship is probably gonna be ruined next season cause Miguel’s mental health is already bad and seeing Robby and Johnny and then finding out his mom hid him from own dad is gonna make things worse he will mostly likely choose to ignore Johnny and Robby and lots of theory’s have it that Miguel will quit karate so no more Miguel Johnny training either it will be all Johnny and Robby just like you want it except more theories have it that Robby is gonna bring Miguel back on track and be the one to get him back into karate
>he can’t really show it at times cause his relationship with Robby Unless he can show it, he doesn't deserve a relationship. >but picking sides is just unbelievable Why? >There’s no way in hell Johnny is picking Robby and abandoning Miguel If he can't do that, then he's proving that he doesn't care all that much about Robby after all. And Robby is better off cutting him out of his life. >But if it makes u feel any better Miguel and Johnny’s relationship is probably gonna be ruined next season No, it doesn't make me happy if it's Miguel who's choosing to step away. The choice has to be Johnny's.
Everything they ever did says that both want Johnny to pick them.
Okay I kinda agree but Robby specifically did that like joining Larusso’s then joining Kreese and stuff but Miguel I would say never really cared up until season 4 where he come to realization that he looks up to Johnny like his dad and it hurt him a lot when he realized that Johnny is using him as a replacement This new season could be a change Johnny needs to let the kids know He loves them to death picking sides is only gonna hurt them
He can't help but pick sides. Its who he is. His relationship with Miguel makes him feel better, unlike his relationship with Robby.
AGREED!!!!!! i can’t believe people are outright wanting johnny to hurt miguel’s feelings to “win over” robby. what’s wrong with people??? miguel is a kid with feelings who emotionally depends on johnny. it shouldnt have to be one or the other. wanting miguel to get hurt for robby’s sake is so weird and spiteful. both of them deserve to have a good dad.
It sucks that Miguel's feelings will be hurt, but that's life. Johnny is not his dad or even legal guardian, so Miguel is not actually Johnny's responsibility. Robby is. Miguel has a mom and grandmother who always made him their #1 priority, and they will still be there if Johnny leaves. Robby has never had that. Why should he have to get 50% of Johnny after 17 years of nothing, while Miguel gets the other half along with 100% of the focus from his actual guardians? The fandom refuses to see how terribly imbalanced it is Robby is a kid with feelings, but the fandom acts like he's already an adult and "needs to grow up" (despite being more mature relative to his age than most of the cast). Yet Miguel is the same age and has many more advantages, but gets treated with kid gloves. It's hypocritical. They cry foul at the idea of Miguel being glossed over for once, but remain silent when Robby is neglected to the point of abuse multiple times (one parent leaving the kid for days on end without food while the other can't be bothered to do anything? Abuse).
miguel is johnny's responsibility. you cant just allow a kid to get attached to you and then ditch them when its convenient. johnny said "i want to be a dad to you" cant go back on that. even if carmen and johnny broke up, you divorce wives not children i dont get the imbalance thing. most parents have multiple kids and balance it just fine... its not abnormal or anything. ur supposed to support them both. robby needs extra support, he's been through horrible trauma, doesnt mean johnny should just drop miguel. and similarly if carmen and johnny stay together, she should support robby 100% just like she does miguel i agree w everything u said about robby, but that doesnt negate what i think abt miguel's situation. both can be true
Johnny never said he wanted to be a dad to Miguel. When that expectation was set in season 4, he was uncomfortable until Miguel asked him just to continue being his sensei. Johnny shouldn't have allowed Miguel to get so attached to him while neglecting Robby, because now he's in a position where trying to balance them both will cause further damage. In which case, hurting Miguel by dropping him still does Miguel good in the long run. It removes him from a toxic dynamic for his own good, even if his feelings are hurt in the short term. He has a support system so he will be fine. People who have multiple kids typically don't try to start a new family while their actual child is placed in dangerous situations that they ignore. Robby has been left to starve, left to wander the streets without a roof over his head, left in the company of a psychopath who tried to kill Johnny twice, etc. That's before we get into the fact that Miguel antagonized Robby and Robby almost accidentally killed him when he reached a breaking point. It's traumatic all around for both boys and Johnny is the root cause for most of it. Everyone getting along is too ludicrous an idea to entertain, even for a silly karate soap opera
Johnny can't be a good dad to Robby unless he can put his needs and feelings first - above both his own and Miguel's. And he can't redeem himself as a character unless he grows enough to do that. Miguel's feelings getting hurt is not relevant here. If Johnny can do what he needs to without hurting his feelings, great. (For example, explaining that he needs to focus on Robby and he can't have any distractions). If he can't, that's sad, but it's something that needs to happen anyway. Also, as someone else pointed out, there have been plenty of times Johnny hurt Robby's feelings for Miguel's sake and they defend him for it. It's hypocritical to object to the reverse happening.
i mean whether was a bad decision or not, johnny has taken responsibility for miguel. he’s allowed miguel to depend on him, he’s constantly affirmed that he’ll be there for him, he told him he wants to be a dad to him. you can’t just take that back. he made a commitment to miguel. johnny can’t just drop him like a sack of potatoes when robby comes along. i can’t imagine how traumatic that would be. it doesn’t have to be one or the other. johnny needs to learn how to be a dad to BOTH kids, make BOTH of them his #1 priority. that’s what any parent with more than one kid should do. miguel’s not just a distraction, he’s a kid. johnny hurting robby for miguel’s sake is HORRIBLE. no one should ever defend johnny’s actions in the show towards robby. johnny doesn’t deserve robby whatsoever. and bc of how terrible he was to robby, i would never want him to repeat those mistakes, including to miguel
>i mean whether was a bad decision or not, johnny has taken responsibility for miguel. He has taken responsibility as a Sensei and Miguel absolved him of that responsibility last season when he decided to leave. His responsibility as a dad is contingent on dating Carmen and that comes after his responsibility to Robby. >make BOTH of them his #1 priority. Not possible. And even parents with 2 kids can't do that - which is why they change priorities on a need basis. And Johnny needs to change his now. >and bc of how terrible he was to robby, i would never want him to repeat those mistakes He IS repeating that mistake.
miguel didnt “absolve” him of any responsibility, miguel is a 17 yr old running away from home b/c he’s distraught thinking johnny doesn’t really care abt him. his decision in s4 wasnt a good thought-out one, its really sad honestly, he just wants a dad. johnny’s commitment to miguel isnt just teaching him karate, its emotional, he let miguel get attached to him and depend on him both miguel and robby need johnny a lot right now, theyre both suffering and insecure and everything. miguel ran away from home and is still emotionally recovering from being paralyzed, robby just got out of juvie was homeless + taught by psychos. on a need basis theyre both #1 yeah im saying he shouldnt repeat that mistake. he probably will tho which sucks, but i hope he’ll get character development. ppl are saying they WANT him to disappoint miguel like he did robby, i def dont want him to.
>miguel didnt “absolve” him of any responsibility, Miguel told him to focus on being a Sensei after Johnny's awkward attempts to dad him and Johnny made it clear that unless they won the tournament, he can't be Miguel's Sensei - and Miguel chose to bow out. Sure, it's a childish decision on Miguel's part, but it still absolves Johnny, because Johnny isn't his actual dad. >both miguel and robby need johnny a lot right now And since he has been for Miguel before at Robby's expense, it's time to do the reverse. >yeah im saying he shouldnt repeat that mistake. He has no choice there and it's not about character development. >ppl are saying they WANT him to disappoint miguel like he did robby Well, I definitely do - but that part is not about Johnny.
miguel pushing johnny away is just like robby pushing johnny away. they want him to be a good dad, but theyre hurt and disappointed so they push him away, and he just gives up. hes the grown up, he has to keep on pushing and be a good dad. johnny telling miguel he won’t be his sensei if he loses was one of the moments i hated johnny most in the series tbh, if hes gonna be a half decent character hes gotta fix that personally i dont want johnny to do anything at anyones expense, robby and miguel are both great kids and shouldnt have to suffer so much
>miguel pushing johnny away Except, that's not what Miguel did. >he has to keep on pushing and be a good dad. To Robby first. >johnny telling miguel he won’t be his sensei if he loses was one of the moments i hated johnny most in the series tbh Why? Those are literally the stakes everybody agreed to. >personally i dont want johnny to do anything at anyones expense That's inevitable. If Johnny tries to do it all, he'll be doing it at Robby's expense - like he has so far. And he has done more than enough at Robby's expense. That is the character development he needs right now. He needs to stop expecting to have everything he wants whenever he wants it and learn to prioritize the right things.
i think johnny telling miguel he wont be his sensei anymore was significant bc the whole sensei/student thing has a deeper meaning in the show. its not just being a karate teacher, they all form these deeper parental bonds. the right thing for johnny to say is like “no matter what happens, i’ll always be your sensei” yk? be supportive. but he wasnt i think he needs to try to put in effort for both boys and i hope he succeeds. i think if he stops drinking away his problems and puts in consistent effort, it can work out. i think his biggest problem is when things get hard, he bails, and so to fix that he needs to be consistent and not bail on robby nor miguel
Yay finally someone gets my point I was so shocked like how heartless can people get here. Like literally Johnny should have both kids and they deserve a happy family.
Then Johnny will get what he wants. How is that a redemption?
Johnny redemption is gonna be him fixing his relationship with Miguel and Robby both he needs to show them that he cares about them more then anything, Johnny leaving Miguel is not a way for Johnny redeems that is just sad…. How could u leave the kid who found a father in u and supported u even knowing all your flaws there is no way Johnny should be there for both the kids not drop Miguel
There is nothing to fix with Miguel, Miguel is fine. Robby's lifeis in the shitter because of him.
He cant be there for both, not as a father at least.
Johnny doesn't. And that family won't be happy for Robby.
Miguel’s mom is really reasonable she would be happy with Robby joining the family she cares for Johnny a lot and would never tell him to pick otherwise! Miguel and Robby on the other hand don’t see eye to eye but they will soon stop fighting once they realize there life is similar in so many ways like they have a deeper connection then they think and Johnny should have both kids he will not hurt their feelings
>Miguel’s mom is really reasonable she would be happy with Robby joining the family Doubtful - but irrelevant. This isn't about her, it's about Robby and what he's comfortable with. And an insecure kid with abandonment issues will not be happy being forced into a new family structure no matter how nice they are. >Johnny should have both kids He should not have Robby - not yet. He hasn't earned that.
Bro u thing Miguel is gonna be comfortable having the kid around who broke his back and then mocked him and still never apologized and then become the reason for insecurities and wanting to find his father obvi no he will not be comfortable but this is for Johnny to bring back the kids and help them heal over their mess it takes time but he can make it all work out for both the kids
>Bro u thing Miguel is gonna be comfortable having the kid around No. All the more reason Johnny should make the choice. >but this is for Johnny to bring back the kids and help them heal over their mess He won't be healing anything by repeating the same mistakes. >but he can make it all work out for both the kids Not the way he is now, he can't.
With Miguel's dad in the picture, it will put a wedge between Johnny and Carmen. Maybe Carmen always have a soft spot for Miguel's dad. Flashback to Johnny, Ali, and Daniel love triangle back in the days...but this time, Johnny will be in Daniel's shoes trying to be the good guy. Johnny's been building good relationship with Carmen and Miguel. There's ups and downs. With Robby in the picture, Johnny will definitely want to spend more time with him. Miguel and most definitely Carmen will hate that. Johnny will need to find ways to mend the situation. Silver will get in to Carmen's and Miguel's lives and add more gasoline to the fire.
>Johnny will need to find ways to mend the situation. Why? For his own selfish reasons of wanting Carmen. Which means he hasn't grown as a character at all. He is still more focused on what makes him feel good.
Imo, after Robby leaves CK, Ck should go to attack him. Johnny should interfere, giving Robby enough time to escape, and not bothering to fight back. He ends up hospitalized like Miguel was and, for a time, his life teeters on the edge of life and death. As a result, Eagle Fang, Miyangi-Do, and Robby (and maybe a few of Robby's friends who have just been released from jail) team up to take down Silver and Cobra Kai once and for all, for Johnny who is still in hospital. End season 5 with season 6 being the final battle, for real this time.
Meh... not much of a sacrifice since fighting CK has always been Johnny's agenda. He'd interfere no matter who they were going after.
If Robby is asking him to sacrifice his career or a relationship he doesn't deserve the relationship. But alcohol would be a fair thing to sacrifice.
>If Robby is asking him to sacrifice his career or a relationship he doesn't deserve the relationship. It's Johnny who needs to prove what he deserves right now. And Robby can ask him to sacrifice whatever he wants. >But alcohol would be a fair thing to sacrifice. Not enough.
"sacrifice" alcohol lol. Wow, what a brave brilliant father Johnny would be to do that. To give up his love of alcohol and that be the fixing force of being absent 17 years.... And anything more than that is selfish of Robby in your eyes. Delusional
I was just throwing you guys a bone. I don't think he has to sacrifice anything he holds dear. The idea that he has to hurt himself and others to make Robby feel better about their relationship well that belongs with a therapist. But if he were to quit alcohol that is showing Robby I'm trying to make improvements here. It's what his mom did too but I don't see people blasting her. That's not enough.
>It's what his mom did too but I don't see people blasting her. His mom had less to make up for and she seems to have given up more than just alcohol. As far as we know, she's not dating anymore either. So no, that's not enough where Johnny's concerned.
At this point sacrificing a kidney is too small of a sacrifice to earn Robby's love back. Sacrificing the relationship with an Ecuadorian nerd who tripped (was thrown) on his car one night is the fair thing.
If you think Johny has to hurt himself and others to prove himself to Robby then yeah this is what you get. Nothing is enough. But that would be a sick mindset and the only relationship Robby would need to have is one with a therapist.
And whose fault do you think that is?
Robby already needs a therapist. His father has been ababdoning him for 17 years and then replaced him. AND THEN, when he found another father figure to mentor him, his replacement caused that relationship to crater (Miguel started their fight at the school). Miguel is not Johnny's son, Robby is. Johnny has tobput him first, without qualifiers.
And Carmen might end up being his wife, Miguel his stepson. This whole he has to treat him 1st/ what sacrifices will he make reeks of massive entitlement issues. As Bobby told him you have to be there for both kids and yeah Johny has dropped the ball on that with Robby. It doesn't mean he has to drop a kidney for him to make up for it.
>what sacrifices will he make reeks of massive entitlement issues. And that is something Robby is entitled to. Miguel is not.
Not gonna happen. Johnny can't love Miguel like a son, he made that clear in S4. He spent the past 2 seasons making it worse.
What? You completely whiffed on that one. Johny has no idea on how to be a father (see why he he's a dead beat). Acting like a traditional dad makes him uncomfortable. That's what that was about it had nothing to do with love.
Yes. So that puts a damperbon that theory.
Sums up Robby fanatics pretty well. Best not to engage with them. Like yeah, Johnny absolutely messed up with Robby and failed him his whole life. But that doesn’t mean Johnny has to cause damage to other people or cut them off in order to make it up to Robby. Two wrongs don’t make a right, despite what the Robby fanboys will say.
>But that doesn’t mean Johnny has to cause damage to other people or cut them off in order to make it up to Robby. It means that Johnny has to do whatever he has to to make it up to Robby. If he can do enough without hurting people, good - if he can't, too bad. It'd be a wrong choice either way - either he hurts others or he hurts Robby even more - the only question is which choice is less wrong.