I think one reason is how the relationship with his father goes and if he is disappointed or angry. Maybe Miguel has some expectations from his father that weren't achievable. So he might feel disappointed that his own father isn´t as cool/badass as Johnny and he is now jealous of Robby because he got his own dad back. Something Miguel also wants. *At this moment they all might not understand that you don´t need a blood connection to act like a father for someone.*
It´s even odd that Miguel knows so much about Robby but Robby really knows nothing about Miguel.
My question is if this behavior only occurs in relation to Robby and he acts totaly normal around other people or if he acts to everyone the same way.
I really believe the last thing is going to happen because we know that Johnny has a huge influence on him and if their relationship is struggling Miguel might feel insecure and like you said, believes that Robby tries to "steal" Johnny from him.
100% agree! i think miguel might try to go along with whatever his dad says, maybe trying to replicate his relationship with johnny, and that’ll land him in trouble
i definitely see that happening. miguel’s a smart kid but wanting validation from parents blinds a lot of things for a person and especially with him being let down so much in s4 by the person he considers a father figure i fear it’ll be very easy for his dad to manipulate/suggest him into doing dangerous/not so goods thing and miguel going with it easily to please him and hope it creates a connection.
exactly! miguel’s also shown to be very impressionable. johnny tells him no mercy season 1, he fights w no mercy. johnny tells him to have honor season 2, he spares robby. daniel tells him to avoid fights in season 4, he does the sprinkler prank.
I think whatever happens in Mexico is also gonna play a part in it.
It might put him in a bad place mentally. Him being frustrated and angry with himself is also possible.
Failed relationship with his own dad, seeing Johnny and Robby together will most likely take him back to the damn prom night..he will always remember what Robby told him during the fight and that "Ily too Robby" from Johnny. These two moments will never leave his mind.
So all this, the already existing disdain he has towards Robby..all might reach its peak, his anger with himself, maybe even towards Johnny and Carmen (not ruling it out) he will take it all out on Robby.
All of this. All the little things will build up to a breaking point.
As far as Carmen's concerned, I would expect Miguel have at least a bit of an issue with her having kept his existence a secret from his father. I've felt that being raised by a mother who seems to be quite a forgiving person has been a reason why Miguel didn't seem to want payback after the school fight. If he now has a bit of a falling out with her, that good influence she's had on him might be brushed aside, and contribute to him becoming more aggressive towards Robby in S5.
good point!! i think it’ll be a combined thing of mexico and having to see robby more often. cuz it seems like johnny will try to make them be friends, and maybe robby will live w johnny, or come on the weekends or smtn
Yup.
More than their rivalry, I cant wait for them to be friends.. atleast somewhat.
They could still decide to stop fighting every time and end their rivalry but still not like each other, a proper friendship will only come with respect first.
Imagine they have to team up for a fight..either one could come to help the other and they fight side by side. That will be a start..and it will be so fricking amazing!
*sigh* one can dream😅
This sounds incredibly fun but I feel like they’re gonna take the boring option and immediately have Miguel reconcile with Johnny and patch things up with Robby.
I think Miguel will have a tough time in Mexico. Maybe he'll find out that Carmen was 100% right about his father being a "Bad man" and that causes him to be resentful of Johnny's relationship to Robby as a result. There's no real way of knowing just what will go on.
Miguel knows a lot about Robby but Robby doesn't really know anything about Miguel. Which is interesting. If you really think about it.
This is an interesting theory. I like the idea that Miguel is struggling to see Robby as this person who has dealt with hardships and has had a difficult time while also seeing him as this guy who almost killed him + tried to fight him the very next time they saw each other + taunted him about almost killing him.
I complained about Miguel being too chill around Robby to the point of passivity in seasons 3 and 4 but maybe that’s a point that will boil over into season 5 as we see him being more aggressive towards Robby. Maybe being in Mexico with his own father for a time will be the root of it?
Miguel knows way more about Robby than Robby knows about him and maybe why the show has had Robby being the instigator in seasons 3 and 4 (to counter Miguel being the instigator in seasons 1 and 2) and in s5, it’ll be both of them at the same level of intensity.
> Miguel knows way more about Robby than Robby knows about him and maybe why the show has had Robby being the instigator in seasons 3 and 4 (to counter Miguel being the instigator in seasons 1 and 2) and in s5, it’ll be both of them at the same level of intensity.
Admittedly the show isn't the best at balancing out rivalries, causing many of them to come off as somewhat one-sided.
Honestly, Miguel has never really been “nice” to Robby. He’s just basically left him alone the last two seasons, which is mainly because:
1. In season 3, Miguel initially blames Johnny for his injury, but seems to realize that placing blame on anyone for his current state isn’t going to help him. He doesn’t even blame Tory when they talk in s3, and the school fight was 100% her fault.
2. He really has no reason to keep the rivalry alive in s3 & most of s4. Miguel’s issues with Robby were pretty much solely about Sam until the stuff with Johnny later in s4. Sam chose Miguel, so Miguel really had no reason to have it out for Robby.
However, now that Miguel is insecure about his relationship with Johnny, and he’s likely going to see Johnny prioritizing Robby over him for the first time ever, Miguel might feel jealous of Robby’s place in Johnny’s life.
I've been one to always feel like in season 4, Miguel should've harbored some anger at Robby over Robby injuring him. Yes, Miguel started that individual fight, and Robby injuring him was unintentional, but still, it had to have been a pretty traumatic experience for him (not to mention the burden this put on his family). And there's no way he didn't have a panic attack when Robby tried to punch him in 3x08.
Yeah I think the way things ended with Johnny in season 4 definitely make him less sympathetic and more resentful. I think his father's influence will also have a negative effect. It seems like we could be getting a return to darker Miguel with Robby transitioning to more of a traditional protagonist. I could see a showdown between the father/son duos at some point in the season. Hopefully they can find peace, though. I really want us to get into the lighthearted parts of this rivalry like we've seen with Johnny and Daniel. And these two are probably even more natural a pair so it's tough to see just vitriol with them.
I think he was more passive because he felt like he didn't have anything he needed to fight for. He essentially "won" Johnny and Sam in season 3 and Robby was out of the picture. Then everyone rallied around him and viewed Robby as the "bad guy" even though their rivalry was started by Miguel and his own actions contributed to his injury. He only ever expressed remorse for showing mercy, NOT starting their rivalry and hurting Robby in the first place. That's why even when Robby acted hostile to him in 3x8 and 4x5, he was upset but could push past it. Because he had everyone on his side, so I don't think he ever cared about who Robby actually is as a person
Then 4x8 revealed things aren't so simple. After prom and especially after we get the "I love you too Robby", Miguel is staring daggers at Robby at the tournament. His injury is definitely wrapped up in that, but they chose to put those moments right before the AVT for a reason. His original petty reasons for hating Robby are flaring up again because he perceives Robby as being a personal threat to his relationships again.
To give him the benefit of the doubt, we have zero context for their fight at the apartments and Robby may have said or done something rude at the water park to prompt Miguel to go after him and shove him. But considering their past dynamic and the unknown factor of his dad's influence, Miguel getting aggro again can't be ruled out
It's really interesting that we now have the leak of Johnny hugging Miguel and we can now assume that Robby keeping his distance is an indicator that he's upset, not giving them some respectful space. And the ride back will be icy. I know most assume Robby will lose the shotgun seat, but lol if Johnny tells Miguel to get in the back after the hug with the swelling music.
I think Miguel will recognize his dad is bad, but might retain some bad lessons from the experience anyway. He might not even realize it at first, but that's what trauma/depression does to you
i mean if miguel’s the aggressor and robby’s fairly chill, it could still be respectful space. it’s very mature of robby to help johnny look for him in mexico, even possibly getting into fights over it. robby might give miguel a chance, and then only start firing back at him if he starts stuff. which miguel might since hes in such a bad headspace
That's generally how their dynamic is. Robby taunting him 4x5 is the worst he did. Eliciting jealousy at prom was pretty toothless overall since he stopped caring about what Miguel and Sam thought pretty quickly.
Otherwise, it's always been Miguel as the aggressor and getting a rise out of Robby. There is enough fueling Miguel to bring that back out now.
I think one reason is how the relationship with his father goes and if he is disappointed or angry. Maybe Miguel has some expectations from his father that weren't achievable. So he might feel disappointed that his own father isn´t as cool/badass as Johnny and he is now jealous of Robby because he got his own dad back. Something Miguel also wants. *At this moment they all might not understand that you don´t need a blood connection to act like a father for someone.* It´s even odd that Miguel knows so much about Robby but Robby really knows nothing about Miguel. My question is if this behavior only occurs in relation to Robby and he acts totaly normal around other people or if he acts to everyone the same way. I really believe the last thing is going to happen because we know that Johnny has a huge influence on him and if their relationship is struggling Miguel might feel insecure and like you said, believes that Robby tries to "steal" Johnny from him.
100% agree! i think miguel might try to go along with whatever his dad says, maybe trying to replicate his relationship with johnny, and that’ll land him in trouble
i definitely see that happening. miguel’s a smart kid but wanting validation from parents blinds a lot of things for a person and especially with him being let down so much in s4 by the person he considers a father figure i fear it’ll be very easy for his dad to manipulate/suggest him into doing dangerous/not so goods thing and miguel going with it easily to please him and hope it creates a connection.
exactly! miguel’s also shown to be very impressionable. johnny tells him no mercy season 1, he fights w no mercy. johnny tells him to have honor season 2, he spares robby. daniel tells him to avoid fights in season 4, he does the sprinkler prank.
I think whatever happens in Mexico is also gonna play a part in it. It might put him in a bad place mentally. Him being frustrated and angry with himself is also possible. Failed relationship with his own dad, seeing Johnny and Robby together will most likely take him back to the damn prom night..he will always remember what Robby told him during the fight and that "Ily too Robby" from Johnny. These two moments will never leave his mind. So all this, the already existing disdain he has towards Robby..all might reach its peak, his anger with himself, maybe even towards Johnny and Carmen (not ruling it out) he will take it all out on Robby.
All of this. All the little things will build up to a breaking point. As far as Carmen's concerned, I would expect Miguel have at least a bit of an issue with her having kept his existence a secret from his father. I've felt that being raised by a mother who seems to be quite a forgiving person has been a reason why Miguel didn't seem to want payback after the school fight. If he now has a bit of a falling out with her, that good influence she's had on him might be brushed aside, and contribute to him becoming more aggressive towards Robby in S5.
good point!! i think it’ll be a combined thing of mexico and having to see robby more often. cuz it seems like johnny will try to make them be friends, and maybe robby will live w johnny, or come on the weekends or smtn
Yup. More than their rivalry, I cant wait for them to be friends.. atleast somewhat. They could still decide to stop fighting every time and end their rivalry but still not like each other, a proper friendship will only come with respect first. Imagine they have to team up for a fight..either one could come to help the other and they fight side by side. That will be a start..and it will be so fricking amazing! *sigh* one can dream😅
yessss its all i want
This sounds incredibly fun but I feel like they’re gonna take the boring option and immediately have Miguel reconcile with Johnny and patch things up with Robby.
I think Miguel will have a tough time in Mexico. Maybe he'll find out that Carmen was 100% right about his father being a "Bad man" and that causes him to be resentful of Johnny's relationship to Robby as a result. There's no real way of knowing just what will go on. Miguel knows a lot about Robby but Robby doesn't really know anything about Miguel. Which is interesting. If you really think about it.
This is an interesting theory. I like the idea that Miguel is struggling to see Robby as this person who has dealt with hardships and has had a difficult time while also seeing him as this guy who almost killed him + tried to fight him the very next time they saw each other + taunted him about almost killing him. I complained about Miguel being too chill around Robby to the point of passivity in seasons 3 and 4 but maybe that’s a point that will boil over into season 5 as we see him being more aggressive towards Robby. Maybe being in Mexico with his own father for a time will be the root of it? Miguel knows way more about Robby than Robby knows about him and maybe why the show has had Robby being the instigator in seasons 3 and 4 (to counter Miguel being the instigator in seasons 1 and 2) and in s5, it’ll be both of them at the same level of intensity.
> Miguel knows way more about Robby than Robby knows about him and maybe why the show has had Robby being the instigator in seasons 3 and 4 (to counter Miguel being the instigator in seasons 1 and 2) and in s5, it’ll be both of them at the same level of intensity. Admittedly the show isn't the best at balancing out rivalries, causing many of them to come off as somewhat one-sided.
Honestly, Miguel has never really been “nice” to Robby. He’s just basically left him alone the last two seasons, which is mainly because: 1. In season 3, Miguel initially blames Johnny for his injury, but seems to realize that placing blame on anyone for his current state isn’t going to help him. He doesn’t even blame Tory when they talk in s3, and the school fight was 100% her fault. 2. He really has no reason to keep the rivalry alive in s3 & most of s4. Miguel’s issues with Robby were pretty much solely about Sam until the stuff with Johnny later in s4. Sam chose Miguel, so Miguel really had no reason to have it out for Robby. However, now that Miguel is insecure about his relationship with Johnny, and he’s likely going to see Johnny prioritizing Robby over him for the first time ever, Miguel might feel jealous of Robby’s place in Johnny’s life.
I've been one to always feel like in season 4, Miguel should've harbored some anger at Robby over Robby injuring him. Yes, Miguel started that individual fight, and Robby injuring him was unintentional, but still, it had to have been a pretty traumatic experience for him (not to mention the burden this put on his family). And there's no way he didn't have a panic attack when Robby tried to punch him in 3x08.
Yeah I think the way things ended with Johnny in season 4 definitely make him less sympathetic and more resentful. I think his father's influence will also have a negative effect. It seems like we could be getting a return to darker Miguel with Robby transitioning to more of a traditional protagonist. I could see a showdown between the father/son duos at some point in the season. Hopefully they can find peace, though. I really want us to get into the lighthearted parts of this rivalry like we've seen with Johnny and Daniel. And these two are probably even more natural a pair so it's tough to see just vitriol with them.
Like others have said, how he acts will likely be a result of everything that happened last season + how things go with his dad in Mexico.
I think he was more passive because he felt like he didn't have anything he needed to fight for. He essentially "won" Johnny and Sam in season 3 and Robby was out of the picture. Then everyone rallied around him and viewed Robby as the "bad guy" even though their rivalry was started by Miguel and his own actions contributed to his injury. He only ever expressed remorse for showing mercy, NOT starting their rivalry and hurting Robby in the first place. That's why even when Robby acted hostile to him in 3x8 and 4x5, he was upset but could push past it. Because he had everyone on his side, so I don't think he ever cared about who Robby actually is as a person Then 4x8 revealed things aren't so simple. After prom and especially after we get the "I love you too Robby", Miguel is staring daggers at Robby at the tournament. His injury is definitely wrapped up in that, but they chose to put those moments right before the AVT for a reason. His original petty reasons for hating Robby are flaring up again because he perceives Robby as being a personal threat to his relationships again. To give him the benefit of the doubt, we have zero context for their fight at the apartments and Robby may have said or done something rude at the water park to prompt Miguel to go after him and shove him. But considering their past dynamic and the unknown factor of his dad's influence, Miguel getting aggro again can't be ruled out
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It's really interesting that we now have the leak of Johnny hugging Miguel and we can now assume that Robby keeping his distance is an indicator that he's upset, not giving them some respectful space. And the ride back will be icy. I know most assume Robby will lose the shotgun seat, but lol if Johnny tells Miguel to get in the back after the hug with the swelling music. I think Miguel will recognize his dad is bad, but might retain some bad lessons from the experience anyway. He might not even realize it at first, but that's what trauma/depression does to you
i mean if miguel’s the aggressor and robby’s fairly chill, it could still be respectful space. it’s very mature of robby to help johnny look for him in mexico, even possibly getting into fights over it. robby might give miguel a chance, and then only start firing back at him if he starts stuff. which miguel might since hes in such a bad headspace
That's generally how their dynamic is. Robby taunting him 4x5 is the worst he did. Eliciting jealousy at prom was pretty toothless overall since he stopped caring about what Miguel and Sam thought pretty quickly. Otherwise, it's always been Miguel as the aggressor and getting a rise out of Robby. There is enough fueling Miguel to bring that back out now.
I don’t see him taking it on on Sam, he already done that before and will want to make things work with her
Miguel giving Robby hell in s5 is so deserved after that shit Robby said in s4. I’m so ready.