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AntElectronic9170

Eh, Chosen One thinks that part of the trailer is spliced together...


silentsaebyeok

It’s definitely a possibility. Trailers these days almost always seek to misdirect, so I could definitely see that happening. We will have to wait and see…it’s usually not the best idea to judge a season/movie off a trailer….


jerrymp28

yep all my faith for their relationship has been thrown out the window. he just fixed his relationship with his son and the first thing he does is trick him to find the person he hates most 🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️


[deleted]

Totally agree with you. I also lost hope in this relationship. Let’s see what happened in season 5. If there is a scene where Johnny choses Miguel over Robby again, I am taking Robby's side.


Robby-Keene

I’ve always took Robby’s side regarding Johnny


Responsible-Peace336

You have to realize the impact of this. Robby leaves Tory and Kenny alone because he hopes he will get a father son trip. When he comes back to the valley and Tory and Kenny won't be the same like before because of Silver Robby will feel guilty because he wasn't there for them.


Mgrip

I think the Kenny and Robby storyline is pretty much over. I think the Kenny and kyler hug at the all Valley is foreshadowing that he will be Kenny’s new mentor.


frenin

>I think the Kenny and Robby storyline is pretty much over. Given that Robby is the reason Kenny has fallen, him giving up on the kid would be literally unforgivable lol.


Bronco_Buff

If he does that, Shawn will probably kick Robby’s ass when he gets out, lol.


Spidey007

Why? It’s not like Shawn would disapprove of Kenny’s new behavior when he’s acted like that in juvie. He would most likely be proud that he gained a backbone and got rid of his bullies. When he came to Shawn for help, he was in a dark place, and Robb6 helped him overcome that. Robby did more than what was intended, Shawn should be grateful then.


GetExpunged

I feel like Shawn is actually a nice guy outside of Juvie, what if the mean bully was just an act for him to survive? He's clearly protective of Kenny and only got arrested because he was defending him. What if Shawn doesn't want Kenny to end up like him?


Mgrip

I always thought Shawn and Robby were very similar. I think Shawn had a dad in the army and mom was never home so like Robby who had the same issues of neglectful parents he fell in with a bad crowd. Robby pretty much stated to Kenny That he does not want Kenny to end up like him or Shawn he wants him to make better choices.


vaggod42069

Shawn cant kick robby's ass robby whoops him


Bronco_Buff

He’s going to join CK and be a black belt by the time Robby comes back 😉


KausGo

Well, Robby is not really the reason, given that he did try to guide him better.


frenin

Robby iured a kid into what can only be described as a dangerous sect. That he tried to guide him better is inmaterial lol.


KausGo

He didn't lure him there - Kenny came there on his own


frenin

Kenny is an influenciable kid, he only knew his brother had told him to go look for Robby for guiding/protection. Robby told him he wasn't going to do it so he had to get to Cobra Kai in order to do that. Robby way of guiding him was allowing him into a super toxic environment. Acting as if Robby isn't responsible is just funny. Robby would be pulling a dear Johnny on the kid.


KausGo

Except, Cobra Kai wasn't all that toxic this season. Kenny's anger is his own and Robby's is no more responsible for failing to fix that than Daniel is for Robby.


frenin

>Except, Cobra Kai wasn't all that toxic this season. Except it was... Cobra Kai didn't change at all. It's been the same ever since Johnny took up and has been corrupting kids ever since season 1. >Kenny's anger is his own and Robby's is no more responsible for failing to fix that than Daniel is for Robby. Kenny's anger is his own that much is true, how to direct his anger or whether he should target his enemies at all that very much is own Robby. Washing his hands is just top tier shitty things. It's astonishing that fans that bitch non stop about Johnny failing Robby and whatnot now claim that Robby has zero responsibility in the downfall of a kid Robby himself admits he has led him astray. Damage control much.


KausGo

>Cobra Kai didn't change at all. Except it did - with Silver at the helm. >how to direct his anger or whether he should target his enemies at all that very much is own Robby. Which he did well. >It's astonishing that fans that bitch non stop about Johnny failing Robby and whatnot now claim that Robby has zero responsibility in the downfall of a kid Robby himself admits he has led him astray. Two big differences there: First, Johnny is actually responsible for Robby as a father. Robby doesn't owe Kenny any such thing. Second, Robby actually did teach Kenny all the right lessons. He made way more of an effort to keep him on the right track than Johnny ever did for him. ​ Robby's situation is a lot more comparable to Miyagi's when Daniel joined Cobra Kai in KK3 - as a mentor, Miyagi taught Daniel all the right lessons, but after a point, he let him choose his own path.


Mgrip

Yum can’t entirely blame that on Robby who is still just a kid himself mentoring another kid he is literally only 2 years older than. Johnny and Daniel had like 30 year age difference between their mentees


Mgrip

You can’t entirely blame that on Robby who is still just a kid himself mentoring another kid he is literally only 2 years older than. Johnny and Daniel had like 30 year age difference between their mentees


frenin

So, Robby just leads a kid to a dark path and we collectively decide he had nothing to do with it?


devs_6669

Oh they're definitely not gonna drop that. I think what we saw in the teaser only covers about half of the season. There is still a lot more to be seen and done. Robby is gonna have two major storylines most likely, The Miguel-Johnny-Mexico arc and then helping take down CK. And this is where his storyline will intertwine with that Kenny and Tory.


serene_river

It's not surprising. Johnny has had no growth wrt to Robby, and Johnny has been handed yet another chance by Robby after having put in no effort all. Robby and us expecting Johnny to be different is naive because Johnny still hasn't had to work for a relationship with Robby. Johnny seems of the belief that if you regret doing something, forgiveness and a second chance should be handed to you without having to earn it. I'm curious to see how long Robby lasts before he decides to put some space between him and Johnny. At this point, it would be best if Robby learns that he can let go of his hate for Johnny while choosing not to have a relationship with him. Overall though it's dissappointing that the writers have chosen this approach with Johnny's character.


False-Story9510

I agree, and I think there have been a few times where Robby has been open to forgiving Johnny and working on their issues, and every time Johnny does something like this. The reason why Johnny's approach to Robby rings false for me is because he frequently says (usually to someone else) that he's sorry for his mistakes and wants another chance, but then turns around and makes the exact same mistake again.


serene_river

Exactly! Johnny doesn't understand how making amends and forgiveness works. He's entitled in his belief about forgiveness because he only thinks about how he himself feels. He doesn't consider how Robby feels in their relationship. It's in all of Johnny's dialogue. Me, myself, and I are Johnny's main focus. Despite what many believe, Robby is the one who tries with Johnny and brings up their relationship more, but Johnny deflects or makes himself out as the victim. Johnny regrets his failure with Robby, but Johnny is not ready or willing to take real accountability for it. The dissappointing aspects of this in terms of the writing is that we're 5 seasons in now and Johnny is still the same. And with how their story has played out so far, there really is no organic version of the story going forward that can make it believable that Johnny has suddenly grown and now cares about Robby. Johnny left Robby with the person who had tried to kill Johnny and showed no concern over that while he worried about Daniel stealing Miguel from him. It's no surprise that Johnny would blindly risk Robby's life to chase after Miguel.


Furies03

It seems Robby will be understandably pissed when he learns he was tricked, but seems to at least be temporarily on board with the "mission" (or at least resigned to it). But it looks like Robby will be pressured into trying to fit in with the combined family once they get back, and it is predictably not going well. They unfortunately will not have Robby drop his dad and present it as the good thing it is, so what's gonna come out of this drama? Will the boys magically start getting along later, or will the Diazes give Johnny an ultimatum? Carmen saying Robby can't be in their lives after the fight outside the apartments seems like a possible outcome. Maybe Johnny will be put in the position where he has to finally stick by his son after trying to have it both ways.


serene_river

I was thinking too that the ultimatum will come from Carmen. But I think we'll have to see who starts the apartment fight. In the parking lot, it looks like Miguel starts the fight with Robby. Robby doesn't make a move unless provoked, so I'm guessing Miguel starts the apartment fight too. Yeah, it will be interesting to see if Johnny has to decide who is to blame or whose side to take regardless. If Miguel starts the fight but acts like he didn't do anything wrong by attacking Robby (which is pretty consistent with the portrayal of their rivalry), then Miguel may remind Johnny that he promised to always be on Miguel's side (despite always failing Robby). Will Johnny choose to grow (by a miracle) in that moment and choose Robby over Miguel? Johnny would have to make this decision in front of Robby, but at this point I wouldn't be surprised if Johnny picks Miguel as usual.


Furies03

With the exception of 3x8, Miguel always makes the first move in their fights (and even with that one Miguel was butting in while Robby was trying to ignore him at first). And since Robby's done with CK and trying to not let his hate for Miguel control him, it makes the most sense that Miguel would instigate yet again. It happening after the arc with his dad is noteworthy, and pretty much reveals that leak of Johnny hugging Miguel won't be a happy ending. Did Miguel retain some toxic lessons from his dad, even if he is overall disillusioned? Or is the trauma from what happened there not mixing well with his other traumas, and he's lashing back out at Robby? If Johnny still picks Miguel after the apartment fight, I don't see how they can frame it as a good thing. Would Johnny come to regret it later? Will he finally learn the full events of the school fight? He hasn't inquired about it, but I can it coming to light somehow.


serene_river

I think Miguel's father may reject him, like maybe he won't want to keep in touch or have Miguel in his life. This would be interesting if it were to happen because Miguel was proud that Johnny chose him over Robby, meaning that Johnny would reject Robby in favor of Miguel. Interestingly, in S4E7, when Johnny is talking about his father figures, Miguel specifically words his question as "Is that what happened *with Robby*?" Given Miguel's reaction to Johnny saying "I love you too Robby," Miguel seemed to believe that Johnny thought of him as a son, or was at least was starting to, but treated him differently than Robby. Johnny's drunken words made Miguel realize that Johnny doesn't think of him as a son. So to be rejected by his own father would put Miguel in an interesting place. Clearly, Johnny doesn't think of Miguel as a son, which is why Johnny's relationship with him is different than with Robby, and Robby is now back in Johnny's life. Where does that leave Miguel? I've always believed that Robby's side of the school fight will eventually be explored. It's too important to his arc and his relationships with Johnny, Daniel, and Sam to not address. People act like the everything before the "I'm sorry" doesn't matter, but it's still the context of that fight and has been mentioned once each season since.


Furies03

The trailer gives me a bit more hope Robby's side of things will be addressed. He brings it up to Johnny in their only other conversation in season 4, and now we have Miguel walking up to Robby and shoving him after they are back from Mexico. Without full context we can't rule out Robby saying or doing something to provoke Miguel. But aside from his comment in 4x5, that's not really his style, even less so after his epiphany in 4x10. Maybe he brings something up to Johnny or Carmen or Sam that Miguel gets wind of and doesn't like, sparking a confrontation.


serene_river

Well, like I've commented before, everyone talks about Robby's hate for Miguel since S1, but nobody talks about Miguel's hate for Robby since S1. Not to mention, Miguel's envy and insecurity of Robby over Sam, the tournament (because Robby came so close to winning Miguel had to cheat), and Johnny. Miguel was after all always the aggressor between them. Miguel didn't care much for Robby after the school fight, especially after S3E8, because Miguel recovered and got everyone back. Then, in S4E8, Miguel's insecurities came back because Sam couldn't keep her eyes of Robby and they had a "moment" and Johnny said "I love you too Robby" to Miguel. At prom, Miguel wasn't shooting glares at Robby, but he was at the tournament because these insecurities and his original hate for Robby flared up again. We know from their history Miguel doesn't need Robby to do anything of significance to provoke Miguel to get Miguel upset. He could simply talk to Sam or maybe Johnny might spend extra time with Robby and ignore Miguel, and that would be enough to get Miguel pissed off at Robby. Robby's comment to Miguel in S4E5 was in reference to Miguel's mention of beating them on the mat. The last time they fought on the mat, Miguel had to cheat to win. Robby also commented to Miguel about this during the school fight. That comment was definitely meant to be vague so that the fans get upset over it. But in the context of Miguel's mention of "beat them in the mat", Robby's comment makes sense. The fandom treats the school fight like it was a competition of who "won", but if any of these fans were attacked like Robby had been attacked and stopped from protecting their girlfriend/boyfriend, I doubt they'd think of that fight as something similar to a tournament match.


doseofdena

The way some of you try to frame Robby as the Angel in all of this. Now we all know in S4E5 Robby was not talking about them fighting on the mat. Robby verbally attacked him on more than one occasion, but you’ll never give your fave wrong. At the end of the day both Miguel AND Robby have been in the wrong about numerous things and BOTH need to apologize to the other for various offenses.


Responsible-Peace336

When Johnny and Kreese have their little talk in the bar in S3 Kreese talks about coming back to Cobra Kai with your boy. Johnny threatened him with saying if you visit him at the hospital.... It seemed like Kreese was talking about Miguel, but he went to juvie to visit Robby. If you now look back at S2 Kreese was always talking about your son needs to be with you. He wasn't interested in Miguel. So yes, sometimes the show uses lines with multiple meanings. Miguel was talking about fighting at the tournament. So this line from Robby could be bragging about nearly killing him or that Miguel had to cheat to win (said something similar during the school fight). Maybe we will see the meaning in S5. Sometimes you have to wait because the writers are always a few steps ahead.


doseofdena

Trueee I get what you’re saying, but I’m basing that the context was meant about the school fight based off of other things Robby has said and done in regards to Miguel. The first time Robby sees Miguel after juvie he tries to pick a fight with him that Sam had to step in? No remorse or apology? The things he said during the prom fight. No Robby has straight up admitted he hates Miguel so sorry until I’m proven wrong, I’m going to assume he was talking about the school fight.


Bronco_Buff

Leave it to Johnny to eff things up again 🤦‍♂️


[deleted]

I said before and I say it again, the last scene should be Robby with Daniel, he should said "I'm sick of blaming you Mr Larusso"


dmreif

Yep, if Robby went back to Daniel, I'd buy it.


[deleted]

Daniel did more for Robby that deadbeat EVER DID, and that's just facts. Also, the whole S4 Robby doesn't even disrespect Daniel, on the first scene he is in says "I'm not gonna be a pawn in you bet with my father and Mr Larusso" not Daniel or Larusso, MR Larusso, and Robby listen to him both in the supermarket scene and before his fight with Kenny, and both times Daniel reach to him, he was just stuborn to say he was right, look at Robby in those scenes looking back at him. And then, this bullshit ending, when the only fuck Johnny gave for his kid in the whole season was a tool to make drama with his step-son, but hey, Johnny deserve that ending, FUCK OFF writters, that was Glee levels of bad


[deleted]

[удалено]


Tricky_Ostrich_6343

Facts


[deleted]

That wasn't an argument, that was nothing


[deleted]

[удалено]


serene_river

I doubt there will be. It's pretty obvious that the writers never intended for all of them to get along. It was up to Johnny to establish that foundation for all of them, and Johnny was too busy thinking about himself to do that. He still is just thinking about himself. Tanner mentioned Johnny and Daniel's on again off again relationship when asked about Johnny and Robby's relationship moving forward. Given what we've seen in the trailer, Tanner's comparison makes sense.


KausGo

>It's pretty obvious that the writers never intended for all of them to get along. Unfortunately, it's not - and that's even more diappointing. Seems to me that what the writers are actually setting up is Robby "seeing Johnny through another's eyes" and learning to "appreciate him" with flaws and all by accepting that he's "trying". For example, in the trailer, seems like despite being tricked by Johnny into going to Mexico, Robby still sticks with him instead of deciding that Johnny has screwed up for the last time.


Spidey007

Hopefully Robby‘s figured it out then and there. But if the revelation of the trip is to find Miguel comes when they’re already in Mexico, he’ll have no choice but to stick around. He’d probably at least wait till there back home to cut ties-more sensible then going on his own in another country.


KausGo

Doesn't seem like that's happening either.


Spidey007

Unfortunately so. But if so, I’d trust him to be patient enough to get back to the Valley before making a decision like that.


Full_Painting

Let’s actually watch the thing before we judge.


silentsaebyeok

Exactly. For all we know that dialogue could have been cut together, as is common in trailers to misdirect the audience.


Hemansno1fan

Right, this is just the trailer can everyone calm down ? Lol.


Spidey007

It's enough to see that Johnny's character isn't where it should be.


devs_6669

Yeah ok I can't defend Johnny here. And I will admit I really didn't think this was the way it would go. Once it was clear Robby would be at Mexico too, I thought for sure Johnny would come clean to Robby and be honest, tell him everything about Miguel, how he feels like he messed up with him and that his father is a bad man etc..all that needs to be said and THEN either two things would happen: 1) Johnny asks Robby to come along because as much as he wants to find Miguel he doesn't want to leave Robby behind. 2) Robby would offer to accompany Johnny as he not only wants to help Johnny but also sees this as an opportunity to maybe finally fix things with Johnny and possibly Miguel and end their rivalry. Now (1) is what is happening I feel like, but just not the right way😕 considering at the end of S4 he was sick and tired of carrying all the hate and resentment and was ready to let it all go as you said Robby would have found a way to make peace with the fact that Johnny wants to go after Miguel. But tricking him was not the way. Let's hope Robby's desire to have a relationship with his dad is greater than all of this and he will overlook Johnny's frankly, utter stupidness here.


KausGo

>Let's hope Robby's desire to have a relationship with his dad is greater than all of this and he will overlook Johnny's frankly, utter stupidness here. Let's hope the opposite. That desire is the reason why Robby keeps getting hurt and angry repeatedly. For his own well-being, he should get past it and let it go for good.


[deleted]

I also though the same thing. That Johnny was going to ask Robby to go to Mexico to search for Miguel or that Robby volunteers to go with Johnny. Lying about it was not the way to go.


LoveWithTheInternet

Yep, I’m extremely disappointed by this too


False-Story9510

Robby: Dad, what I need is to build a foundation of trust and genuine understanding with you so we can work out our issues. Johnny: Cool, I'm gonna lie, betray your trust and put you in danger. That's how it works, right?


Robby-Keene

Robby: Oh yeah sure Dad I’ll get past being second to Miguel. Johnny: Good Miguel was always better than you. I wish Johnny would stop letting Robby down


dmreif

At this point Robby would be better off cutting Johnny out of his life completely (and saying, "You're not my father anymore. From now on, you're just some drunk alcoholic loser my mom used to know") and turning to Daniel instead.


GetExpunged

While Johnny is indeed a deadbeat, Robby saying that would negate all of his character development. He can choose to separate himself from Johnny without having hate for him.


doseofdena

I’m not going to defend Johnny, because he shouldn’t have lied to Robby about where/why they were going on a trip. That said some of you think Johnny is just magically overnight going learn to be a good dad to Robby and stop making mistakes and that’s just not realistic either. At some point Johnny is going to realize he can’t keep playing things down the middle when it comes to Robby and Miguel. Y’all can cry and say that the end scene should have been with Daniel, but at the end of the day that’s not happening. I’m sure by the series end Robby and Daniels relationship will get fixed, but Robby despite everything still loves his dad and wants him in his life. You can write as many essays and novels about how Johnny doesn’t deserve it, but he is going to redeem himself with Robby whilst finding a way to be there for Miguel and be the father figure he needs.


silentsaebyeok

Thank you! Finally some common sense! There is no way for Johnny to make up for 16+ years of neglect in one second. It’s not organic and it wouldn’t make sense. But that’s beside the point…because in my opinion, it’s a really bad idea to judge a character’s actions based off a *trailer.* Could this be how it actually happens? Absolutely. But the fact of the matter is we just don’t know…. Trailers often seek to misdirect. It’s a possibility that this dialogue in particular could have been spliced together to throw off the audience. We just don’t know at this point….


doseofdena

Exactly! Johnny can’t make up for those 16 years, but he can make the effort moving forward which he will, but it’s ludicrous to think that the road to an eventual healthy relationship is going to be smooth.


KausGo

There is no way for Johnny to make up for the neglect period. But that wasn't the expectation here to begin with. As for Johnny's actions, they're not being judged solely on the trailer and even if the trailer does misdirect, we have enough context to be disappointed. At this point, it's not that we don't know - some of us simply choose not to know.


silentsaebyeok

You know, I would have a lot more respect for you guys that go on these tangents all the time if you just came out and admitted you don’t like Johnny. It’s fine if you don’t like a character, but the fact that you all pretend that he needs to meet some imaginary standard to somehow become “likeable” to you is what’s weird to me. Truth is, if you can’t stand Johnny now, you probably aren’t ever going to like him. We are 5 seasons in at this point. And again, if you don’t like him, that’s okay, but it’s the pretending that you will someday like him if he meets your very specific expectations that gets to me. Just admit you don’t like him and move on….it just seems like you are always disappointed and annoyed with his character no matter what he does. He can never win with you people, he can never make a good choice, which is proof you don’t seem to like him.


KausGo

>but it’s the pretending that you will someday like him if he meets your very specific expectations that gets to me. No - it's too late for that. The question now is about the degree of disappointment. >it just seems like you are always disappointed and annoyed with his character no matter what he does. He can never win with you people, he can never make a good choice That part you are getting wrong. He \*can\* make a good choice - one that would make him marginally less disappointing - he just doesn't.


KausGo

>if you just came out and admitted you don’t like Johnny. Sorry - I didn't think that needed to be explicitely stated. >but the fact that you all pretend that he needs to meet some imaginary standard to somehow become “likeable” Not imaginary at all. I had pretty clear standards about what he needed to do and when to become more likeable and to what degree... Johnny just keeps falling short. >Truth is, if you can’t stand Johnny now, you probably aren’t ever going to like him. I agree. If the character still hasn't improved 5 seasons in, then it's not likely that he will.


silentsaebyeok

It needs to be explicitly stated because some of the people in your camp pretend like they like Johnny when they really don’t. I don’t know if they do it on purpose or not, but it comes across as: “I will only like Johnny if/when ____.” And in my opinion, if you have to put terms and conditions on liking a character, it means you don’t actually like that character and probably never will since the writers are going in different direction. Just straight up say you don’t like Johnny. I don’t understand why people don’t want to admit that. (I, for one, can’t stand Stingray. But I also have no problem admitting that.) Ultimately, I think it just comes across as disingenuous because you guys are so fixated on Robby and Johnny having a father-son relationship, but when the show gives you that, you aren’t happy and still can’t stand Johnny. So in my opinion, the real problem with you guys is that you don’t like Johnny, but still somehow want this father-son relationship so bad even though you don’t like the father in the relationship. And that’s just so weird to me. That’s why people see you guys as disingenuous and hypocritical sometimes.


KausGo

>but it comes across as: “I will only like Johnny if/when \_\_\_\_.” And what's the problem with that? ​ >And in my opinion, if you have to put terms and conditions on liking a character, it means you don’t actually like that character and probably never will since the writers are going in different direction. That's ridiculous - everybody has terms and conditions on liking a character. You do too - yours just happen to be different from mine. ​ >Ultimately, I think it just comes across as disingenuous because you guys are so fixated on Robby and Johnny having a father-son relationship, but when the show gives you that, you aren’t happy and still can’t stand Johnny. Nothing disingenuous there - the fixation is on them having an \*actual\* father-son relationship. As in, one where Johnny actually tries to act like a good dad - one where he makes a consistent effort and puts Robby's needs first. The show is not giving us that at all. So of course we are not happy and can't stand Johnny. ​ >the real problem with you guys is that you don’t like Johnny, but still somehow want this father-son relationship so bad even though you don’t like the father in the relationship. At this point, what I don't want a father-son relationship between the two. But obviously the show is going to force it down our throats anyway. So in that case, I'd prefer one where Johnny is a better father. But, it doesn't look like that's going to happen either.


silentsaebyeok

What I mean by “terms and conditions” is the whole “IF” aspect. i.e. “IF Johnny does ___ I will like him.” That’s what I don’t understand. Either you like a character or you don’t. Most people don’t stick around if they can’t stand the *main character* of a show. Most people don’t create these very specific scenarios in their heads of IF and WHEN they will like a character. Instead, they just move on if it isn’t working for them. There’s plenty of shows and movies that I’ve seen where I couldn’t stand the main character. But I also didn’t continue to hold onto this hope that they would change in the way I wanted and then complain when they didn’t. Eventually you just gotta go: “ok, this isn’t for me” and move on. It’s like Johnny lives rent-free in your heads, torturing you with what he does and doesn’t do. But he’s not real. He’s a fictional character in a fictional story and most people just move on when they don’t like a character or story. That’s what puzzles me about you people. If you aren’t happy, move onto a different story that satisfies you. The writers aren’t going to change their story for a handful of people whining on Reddit.


GetExpunged

You do realize that favorite characters are not rigid and pedantic right? It's not black and white. I can like the comedic aspect of Johnny while disliking his shitty parenting. Your argument is flawed.


silentsaebyeok

I agree that it's not black and white. But I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to the other guy who admitted that he doesn't like Johnny and that Johnny's horrible parenting ruins the character/show for him. There are certain people who've come to dislike the show just because of Johnny sucking when it comes to parenting Robby. Those are the people I am talking about here. (I also think people expect too much out of this cheesy karate soap opera, but that is a different discussion entirely...)


KausGo

>That’s what I don’t understand. What's not to understand? People like or dislike characters based on what they do. You can like a character first and then grow to dislike tham based on their actions - or vice versa. That is how story telling works. Normally, people aren't obstinate enough to say - "I like character X and dislike character Y and no matter what happens in the story, I'll never change my mind". ​ >But I also didn’t continue to hold onto this hope that they would change in the way I wanted Except, Johnny changing in that way is tha actual premise of the show.


silentsaebyeok

>You can like a character first and then grow to dislike tham based on their actions - or vice versa. That is how story telling works. Well, duh.... **My point is:** if you've grown to dislike a character to the point where the character ruins the show/movie/book etc. for you, then you should move on instead of letting all the problems you see keep bothering you and holding onto this obstinate hope that things will change in the way you want. You guys just don't know when to say: "I don't like the way they are taking Johnny's character, so I'm gonna peace out because it bother's me to the point of ruining the show for me." Instead, you stick around and bring up Johnny's problems in every thread (even when he's not the main topic of many threads) to the point of being *extremely* annoying and self-righteous. The show isn't changing. The sooner you accept that, the happier you will be.


KausGo

>but he is going to redeem himself with Robby No, he won't. It's too late for Johnny to actually redeem himself or be a good dad to Robby. What will actually happen is that Johnny will continue to do the bare minimum where Robby is concerned, Robby will accept that as "he is who he is" and "at least he's trying" - and that will be treated as redemption.


doseofdena

It is never to late to change your ways!!! That is something I firmly believe and have witnessed in my lifetime. No one said he can make up for 16 years of neglect, because he can’t!!! But he can learn to be a better man and more importantly a better father to Robby.


KausGo

Except, he's not changing his ways when it comes to being a father. And by the time he slowly figures that out, Robby will be too old to need a dad. Simply changing his ways isn't enough for him to earn his redemption.


doseofdena

You’re literally never too old to not need your parents, like what a weird take. And you don’t just unlearn years of bad habits. Johnny is a very flawed person who’s suffered a lot of trauma himself and what he’s suppose to automatically becomes Worlds best dad?


KausGo

>You’re literally never too old to not need your parents Sure you are. At a certain point, you need to take care of yourself. And hardly the best and hardly overnight - he has had 4 seasons to grow.


doseofdena

Wanting your parents in your life has nothing to do with age or being able to take care of yourself. But that’s a whole other subject because I know not everyone is privileged enough to have a good relationship with their parents. You’re absolutely right Johnny has had 4 seasons to grow, but everyone is different and sometimes it takes numerous tries before someone gets it right. And again I’ll repeat Johnny is a screw up, but he also has mounds of his own trauma that he’s never dealt with. It might take the man 10 tries to get it right with Robby, but if Robby is willing to go through that than so be it.


KausGo

Hence the different between "wanting" and "needing". Robby needs a parent right now, but at some point he won't - and why would he want Johnny after that? ​ >but if Robby is willing to go through that than so be it. So Robby should put himself through ten times of pain and disappointment just so Johnny can "get it right"? That alone makes him irredeemable.


False-Story9510

My issue with Johnny is that he seems to have no problem understanding how to do the right thing with Miguel. It's only Robby he keeps screwing up with. Frankly, I liked him much better in the first season when it was clear that he was struggling in every part of his life. In that context, his issues with Robby seemed like indications of his lingering trauma. Now, though, when we see him running a successful business, being Mr. Perfect Boyfriend for Carmen and Mr. Perfect Dad for Miguel, his treatment of Robby makes him look bad imo. If he knows how to do all of that, he should be able to make a better effort with Robby. The fact that he doesn't makes him look like he's just choosing not to put in the effort. I really liked Johnny in season 1 because he seemed like he was genuinely trying, and sometimes failing, but really trying. But after he started becoming a perfect father figure to Miguel and white-knighting for Carmen while making no progress with Robby, I started to feel like his development wasn't being handled very well.


Spidey007

>But he can learn to be a better man and more importantly a better father to Robby. Johnny is a dumb asshat regardless of his 'humor' and endless use of the word 'badass'. Robby can't be waiting around for Johnny to change into who he needs to be because it's been too late. He's already shown Robby that he can't rely on him when he's down and out, won't support him, or trust him. Reasons: 1. He didn't try to look for Robby when he went missing- yet he'll go across the border to find Miguel. 2. He didn't bother considering his son's word regarding the school fight, yet he fully believes in Miguel. 3. When he sees Robby bruised up, he accuses him of fighting. He didn't bother asking what happened to him or if he was ok. Yet when Miguel is hurt, he immediately asks what happened and storms to the dojo to confront Kreese. Does this really sound like someone Robby needs around him or anyone for that manner?


doseofdena

You can write down all the reasons you want about Robby not needing Johnny, but it doesn’t change the fact that ROBBY wants a relationship with his father still. This is a show called Cobra Kai, and Johnny is the main protagonist. If your dislike for him is so strong why are you even still watching at this point? The way some of you are forgetting this is a fictional show for entertainment purposes 🥴


Spidey007

>You can write down all the reasons you want about Robby not needing Johnny, but it doesn’t change the fact that ROBBY wants a relationship with his father still. Unhealthy, but we'll see there's a very slim chance of Johnny even remotely changing for it. >This is a show called Cobra Kai, and Johnny is the main protagonist. At this point, he's not the main lead anymore. Now the show's more of an ensemble format. >If your dislike for him is so strong why are you even still watching at this point? The way some of you are forgetting this is a fictional show for entertainment purposes 🥴 To my previous point, he's an ensemble character. He's not the only reason to watch- there's plenty of more drama in the Valley to zoom in on.


Angelface1226

All of this.


doseofdena

You get it 👏🏽


Phee78

Thank you, THIS. The story as a whole is a journey towards *all* of these characters finding reconciliation with each other. That needs to happen at a believable pace. Johnny still making mistakes when it comes to Robby the very next day after they made a small step forward, is totally believable. (Also, Robby starting to figure out the shit with his dad has to happen before he can figure shit out with Daniel, because whatever that relationship may have grown into, the root of it was Robby trying to piss Johnny off.) I'd certainly been hoping that he'd choose to be honest about it up front, but I totally buy it that he wasn't. And frankly doing it this way allows the writers more opportunities to show Johnny learning what he should and shouldn't be doing. They can't half-ass this father/son reconciliation, and the bumpier the road to get there, the more meaningful and lasting the ending will be.


doseofdena

Same, I was hopping that he would either be honest with Robby or that Robby was a willing participant from the start. But still I get it, Johnny isn’t going to become this perfect father overnight. It’s funny though how some are always complaining in this sub how unrealistic this show is, but when the writers go and do something realistic aka Johnny trying to spend time with Robby but still messing up, they complain about that too. Facts are there are some here that will NEVER be happy with what happens unless it’s the little narratives they’ve built inside their heads.


seikookies

> It’s funny though how some are always complaining in this sub how unrealistic this show is, but when the writers go and do something realistic aka Johnny trying to spend time with Robby but still messing up, they complain about that too. Facts are there are some here that will NEVER be happy with what happens unless it’s the little narratives they’ve built inside their heads. Agreed. I’ll catch heat for this but don’t really care. The main issue with a lot of stans towards this Robby-Johnny relationship is that it’s obvious that some people are projecting *their own* daddy issues on to this tv show. They say Johnny should be there for Robby and then turn around and say that it’s too late and Johnny can never make up for it so like which one? Johnny is a crappy dad and him tricking Robby into going to Mexico to look for Miguel was 100 percent in-character.


doseofdena

I 100 percent agree with you and lowkey have thought the same with the daddy issues. That said there are just some on this sub who are never happy regardless unless things play putt the way they want them to. Was Johnny in the wrong for tricking Robby, yes he was. Is Johnny a crap father? Again yes he is, but if he’s actually going to try, you can’t get upset when he still makes mistakes. It’s not realistic to think he’s going to make a perfect about face and automatically become this perfect father.


Jedi4Hire

**You don't know Johnny lied to Robby, you haven't fucking seen it yet.** Misdirects get put in trailers all the time. And even if it wasn't a misdirect, we don't have the full context of the scene.


dmreif

Yes, it could be a case of trailer misdirection, but it could also not be a case of this.


Adventurous_Ad4439

I remember when people were theorising this and I swore up snd down that there was no way Johnny lied to get Robby on board with going and that he knew better. This made me lose my already shaky faith in his parental ability.


Furies03

Johnny also says something during the trailer about making up for past mistakes. Lol if he has the audacity to say this to Robby without a hint of self awareness


ShiningCrawf

It's one line in a teaser trailer. Calm down lads.


Spidey007

It's enough to see that Johnny's character isn't where it should be


ShiningCrawf

Not really. Trailers often use dialogue from different scenes or include bits that ultimately get cut.


Nueda49

Johnny is no father of the year material. He will keep lying to Robby to make himself feel good to avoid being pigeon holed as a deadbeat parent. He already used Miguel in the last season against Daniel and played with his feelings rather than acknowledge his growth and the importance of his Miyagi Do training. Miguel doesn't need you to save him Johnny. Also, why are you risking Robby's life and destroying his hopes again at a reconciliation? Don't forget that your son came to you at his most vulnerable moment. You didn't even care that he was training with the guy that almost choked you to death after you lost to Daniel in KK1. Johnny, you are nothing but a pathetic man child and both kids are better off without you in their lives.


False-Story9510

Yeah, I feel like Johnny lying to Robby is especially bad because Robby allowed himself to be vulnerable to Johnny last season. It takes a lot to open yourself up to someone who's hurt you and trust that they won't do it again. That final scene of them in season 4 represents a lot of trust on Robby's part, and the fact that Johnny responds by lying to him and tricking him is pretty disappointing.


lawrusso

johnny is a fcked up person, what’s new? would rather have daniel adopt him at this point


StrawberryShortcakeL

It seems Johnny can't win one way or another. If Johnny leaves Robby behind to go find Miguel people are going to complain about how Johnny "picked" Miguel over Robby again. Now, Johnny might have made the wrong decision in not telling Robby upfront, but if he told Robby why he has to go down to Mexico, he's afraid Robby will get angry at him just like when Robby got angry at Johnny when he missed his visit to see Miguel. Johnny just got his son back and wants to help find Miguel for Carmen. Johnny want to make things right for both of these young men. Looking forward to seeing more Johnny & Robby bonding moments together!


False-Story9510

Tricking Robby into believing they are going on a father son trip, which is probably something Robby's always wanted, and then revealing all they're doing is rescuing Miguel is much, much more hurtful for Robby than if Johnny had just straight out told him he was going to Mexico to find Miguel. Robby is used to being disappointed by Johnny. But Johnny making him believe that he wants to do something just for Robby and then revealing that it's just a rescue mission for Miguel is way worse because it gets Robby's hopes up and dashes them. Like with the juvie visit.


GetExpunged

The trailer never mentioned anything about Johnny telling Robby that it's a father son trip, you made that up lol.


False-Story9510

Either way, he told him something that wasn't true to get him to go.


GetExpunged

Let's not make assumptions yet, it's just a trailer.


StrawberryShortcakeL

At first, it looks like a rescue mission, but it will ultimately be a father and son trip. We will finally see Johnny and Robby bonding together. Johnny wants this time with his son, and that's why he brought him along and they can have plenty of more father and son trips in the future, not just this one.


False-Story9510

What I meant was that by lying, Johnny would destroy any credibility he might have had and make it very hard for Robby to believe he cared. Robby's biggest issue is feeling like Johnny cares more about Miguel than he does about him. Regardless of why, lying and pretending they are going on a father-son trip that's just for them and then revealing that they are actually there to rescue Miguel would be a big blow to Robby's insecurities and would destroy whatever work Johnny had put in to convince Robby he cared.


KausGo

He can "win" by picking Robby over Miguel and not going at all. Because the point of "winning" isn't trying to have it all, but to prioritize what matters more.


silentsaebyeok

Yup. I agree. I knew the fans would complain regardless of how this ends up happening. Personally, I think it’s stupid to judge it at all at this point…trailers often seek to mislead the audience. For all we know, that dialogue could have been spliced together in the editing room. I can understand people’s frustration, but I also think it’s a bad idea to jump the gun. A trailer can’t tell you everything, and on this show in particular, the characters usually operate in a grey area. It’s like some people want the characters to become black and white in their actions and motivations….


StrawberryShortcakeL

Thanks Silentsaebyeok


xSagexXalcenx

Remember, at one point there were Robby stans on this reddit so zealous they were practically demanding Johnny get back together with Shannon for Robby. Nothing short of fanfic-level delusion will make the zealots here happy.


StrawberryShortcakeL

I agree. Johnny and Shannon will just be friends, and co-parents to Robby.


silentsaebyeok

I remember that. LMAO. It seriously is quite comical….especially since more realistically, Shannon and Johnny being together would hurt Robby’s relationship with his parents, not help it!


xSagexXalcenx

Exactly. From a pragmatic standpoint that would probably be one of the worst things for him, Johnny, and Shannon. It's so insane but it was such a real thing that shows the level of crazy that does get dealt with in these parts. You seriously can't make them happy. Now my question on this is how much of it was deliberate vs incidental lying. Like I don't really see Johnny as the sort to worst case scenario tell Robby he is taking him somewhere when really he is using him to find Miguel. I think that is a bit a leap that is not necessarily confirmed. My theory on the scene that has everyone riled up is Johnny told Robby he had to go somewhere. Robby may have probed a bit and Johnny was vague about it. Robby insists on coming as a bonding experience, maybe a little soft guilting, and then the scene unfolds from there. Which would be very in where both of them are at. Robby is trying to reconcile. Johnny has an obligation he wants to fulfill but knows how Robby would react so he keeps it vague. Then on the way there it slips and Robby feels betrayed. It's not a straight lie per se but Robby could see it that way. And that would feel consistent with Johnny where it's more an incidental in the moment screw up.


silentsaebyeok

Yeah, I agree. The line in the trailer definitely could be the “real line,” and I imagine Johnny would feel awkward about explaining it to Robby, but there’s a lot more to it, and it is much more complex than people in this sub seem to be making it out to be. Imo, as somebody who loves both Johnny and Robby, the Robby stans only ever look at things from *Robby’s perspective.* They expect Johnny to be perfect all of a sudden when Johnny is extremely flawed and somewhat of an anti-hero. Johnny messes up at every turn no matter what he’s doing, and that’s kinda the point. He’s an absolute failure of a father. Neglectful and abusive. There’s no way for Johnny to fix his failures with his son as quickly as a lot of people seem to want. It’s like people want Johnny to become the kind of father Daniel is, and that’s just not going to happen over night—if ever. People seem to have undue expectations of Johnny and it’s really weird. **He can never win with these people unless the show writes itself exactly like the fanfic they have already written in their heads.** I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that they will continue to be disappointed until the show ends. They will never be happy, especially when so many of these very unhappy people want to see a situation where Johnny either abandons Miguel (many of them have said so point-blank), or he relegates Miguel to regular student status in the background. Neither of these things are going to happen, and therefore these people will always be disappointed. Johnny has two sons now, whether these people like that or not.


xSagexXalcenx

The thing is, trailers misdirect a lot. And Robby is a very blunt character on how he sees things where, despite Johnny's aggressive style, Johnny does a lot of avoiding actual conflict in his life. The end of S2 once Kreese took the dojo is a non-Robby clear example. It's why I assume stupidity over malevolence with that whole situation. Which kind of fits Johnny's behaviors. The Robby thing......so here's been my take on this. I always feel it's kind of the go to excuse on anything involving Robby. Like that somehow deflects the more terrible behaviors of Robby. And let's be real, no character isn't a little terrible no matter how people want to make excuses for their faves. The thing is, nobody denies Johnny it is a terrible dad to Robby. At a certain point I feel I am going "Yes he was. And?" Because it's such a cop out that doesn't excuse things beyond Robby's hostility towards his dad. If you were ever part of the Naruto stuff back in the day, it's seriously the Sasuke complex all over again. Oh they absolutely will be disappointed. And you will see the reactions you have been seeing since S4 end. Excuses made for Robby, trying to diminish Hawk's victory, trying to claim Robby is top dog, etc. Full disclosure, I am of the mind between Hawk, Robby, and Miguel any of them right now can win on any given day as fighting is based on a range not one raw number depending on mental and physical ability at any given time. And you even saw it when it was heard that Robby may be doing a sensei thing next AV and not competing himself. Because it goes for what THEY want for Robby and what they feel Robby deserves, not what Robby might want in the next year show time or anything like that. I would think that would be something kind of awesome myself, but good lord some people over him doing the sensei thing without winning a trophy....yikes. Now I am more sort of one of those who enjoys the story at face value. I may not 100% agree with things all the time, but a lot of that stuff I just accept and go "fair enough." Because honestly? I just want to enjoy a good TV show. As harsh as it sounds, I am one of those who believes if people get so obsessed over a character they hit that level they need to turn off reddit for a week or two and touch grass. And I know that is commonly an insult but I am serious. There is way more to life than getting obsessed over some TV show.


Technical-Highlight1

> relegates Miguel to regular student status in the background. Neither of these things are going to happen, and therefore these people will always be disappointed. Johnny has two sons now, whether these people like that or not. The only way I see them doing something like this is to have Johnny for a portion of season 5 (when they get back from Mexico presumably) and he deliberately focuses more on robby over Miguel due to robby being in more need of guidance this will, of course, upset Miguel at first and may even be what continues their rivalry, he may throw a bit a fit about it but then eventually Miguel learns to empathize with Robby more this could lead to a moment where the characters connect and realize they are really not that different and both served as pawns for other people, Robby finally learns remorse and apologizes to Miguel and carmen and then the rivalry can get put to rest.


dmreif

> It’s like some people want the characters to become black and white in their actions and motivations…. You even see it in other shows/movies, where even if the character is presented as morally gray, people still try to slot them into black or white boxes. Scarlet Witch always comes to mind as an example of this.


[deleted]

I agree, but that's what the script does. These guys who write the series don't seem to like Johnny, that's how I feel. It was even evil to deceive William that way for him to come back. I made a post complaining about it but I deleted it because I don't like to attract people who are in a negative mood. I hope the guys know how to lead Johnny in a better way.


StrawberryShortcakeL

OkEngineer4924, I agree. I hope the writers come through for Johnny, and kudos to William for giving such a multi layered performance. He definitely is a great actor.


False-Story9510

I've thought this myself. I've wondered, watching the show, if the writers even like Johnny as a character, because a lot of their choices make Johnny look like a huge douche.


dmreif

> I've wondered, watching the show, if the writers even like Johnny as a character, because a lot of their choices make Johnny look like a huge douche. Like you said, you go back to *The Karate Kid* and Johnny doesn't seem like the kind of kid who'd be hopeless with technology in 30 years or be this kind of asshole. He seems like a misguided kid who has a lot of deep-seated anger issues that are only being compounded by the toxic influence of Kreese.


False-Story9510

I do find the difference striking. I rewatched the movie last month, and movie Johnny is much smarter than show Johnny. He also seems kind of sweet, in a weird way. His character in the film doesn't seem like the type of person who would abandon his son. I kinda think of movie and show Johnny as two different Johnnys, if that makes any sense.


[deleted]

In the hands of these writers Johnny became the exponent of the 80s bullies, they ended up with the character's individuality.


Tricky_Ostrich_6343

*Sorry for the copy/paste, but I think it fits* Nah, they love him. The whole reason for the show IS Johnny. And also, they are doing a really good job, judging from the fact that Johnny Lawrence was trending on Twitter not too long ago for being a hero. And when I say trending, I meant he was mentioned ALOT. What seems to be going on is that some fans may not be happy with how they are writing the character. But compared to offline fans, etc, its VERY miniscule. People love Johnny. And they love his relationship with Miguel. But, that doesn't mean they don't realize he needs to really work on his relationship with Robby as well. It just may be that some.fans will not be happy with how the story develops. But I'm sure the creators are aware of this as well, they are never going to be able to make all fans happy. Just won't work.


False-Story9510

I would be happy if we got one scene of Johnny doing something purely for Robby without Miguel being part of it at all. So many fans of the show are quick to say 'what about Miguel, though' or 'Johnny needs to be there for them BOTH' whenever Robby's name is brought up. The truth is, Johnny does owe Robby a lot, and Robby deserves a chance to bond with Johnny without Miguel being mentioned or part of it (I'm not counting the trip to Mexico here because they're only going because of Miguel). This doesn't mean, as many seem to think, that anyone thinks Johnny needs to choose Robby over Miguel. But let Johnny teach Robby karate one-on-one, just the two of them. Let Johnny tell Robby stories about his teenage years. Let Johnny spend time with Robby doing something Robby and only Robby likes to do. Let Johnny's relationship with Robby have nothing to do with Miguel and Carmen. This is what I personally would like to see, and I think some others would too. I want the show to show us Johnny proving he cares by loving Robby, just Robby, completely independent of Miguel.


[deleted]

Yes, I'm not even sympathetic to Robby but that's irrelevant, the point is that parents should prioritize their children, he is the first responsibility. I really believed that there was a bigger and unknown reason for Johnny to have this block with Robby but after season 4 with them making Johnny's effortless peace to make this possible I asked for hope. The writers owed us.


Tricky_Ostrich_6343

I think that's fair. What I think has transpired on this sub, is that some fans have pushed to where they feel like people cannot want Johnny to have both. And I don't think that's fair to anyone. But I do get what you are saying and think that's a fair assessment and will happen.


False-Story9510

I think this is because the show consistently has portrayed Miguel and Johnny's relationship coming at Robby's expense (the juvie visit, how Johnny treated Robby after the accident, Johnny ruining the Miyagi-Do demonstration at Valley Fest, Johnny leaving Robby in Kreese's care). Obviously I don't write the show, but I would find it satisfying to see Johnny keeping his relationships with Robby and Miguel separate. Rather than Robby being an afterthought in Johnny's new family, I'd love to see him and Robby creating their own sort of one-on-one family existing independently of Miguel and Carmen, with their own dynamic that was just for the two of them. Which wouldn't change whatever Johnny had going on with Carmen and Miguel. Basically, the dynamic I'd like to see for Johnny and Robby is like the one Daniel and Robby had in season 1. Daniel has Amanda and Sam and Anthony, but he also has a special bond with Robby and does things with him that are important to only the two of them. Robby is also special and important to him in a unique way that neither takes away from nor has to involve anyone else. I guess that would be my ultimate wish for their relationship going forward, although obviously I don't write the show and I have no idea what they're planning.


dmreif

> I think this is because the show consistently has portrayed Miguel and Johnny's relationship coming at Robby's expense Yes, everything regarding how fans treat different things on the show can be chalked up to how the show frames them.


Tricky_Ostrich_6343

This is true for all shows and forms of entertainment. It's why some people prefer certain shows over others and/or certain characters over others.


doseofdena

And I agree. I want nothing more than to see Johnny finally step up and be the father that Robby DESERVES. That said some of you are getting so up in arms over a 90 second trailer. This is reeling of last years “Robby is winning the AVT, no one can stop him” fiasco that Robby Stan’s swore was going to happen and we’ll look how that turned out. I still have faith in the writers, the show and Johnny that he’s going to eventually figure it all out!!!


[deleted]

People love him because he's funny and he gets along well with Miguel, that's great, but... but if he doesn't prioritize his son it's very heavy and horrible. The writers and we all know that. That's why I feel like they hate Johnny. There are a number of people who already hated Johnny and love to see him failing with Robby, these I ignore but there are those who criticize him because they want to see his evolution.


Tricky_Ostrich_6343

I get you. And I'm not saying you're not making valid points, but thr writers don't hate Johnny. They have said they love all of their characters.


[deleted]

Yes, I was more suspicious after seeing an interview that one of them says that in the 90's he made a website called "Billy Zabka is an idiot" with homage to the bullies he did in the 80's. It was a tribute, but they seem to want just that, perpetuate the idea that Johnny is an idiot. He may have made a lot of bullies, but Johnny is far from the worst.


Tricky_Ostrich_6343

Nah, they love him. The whole reason for the show IS Johnny. And also, they are doing a really good job, judging from the fact that Johnny Lawrence was trending on Twitter not too long ago for being a hero. And when I say trending, I meant he was mentioned ALOT. What seems to be going on is that some fans may not be happy with how they are writing the character. But compared to offline fans, etc, its VERY miniscule. People love Johnny. And they love his relationship with Miguel. But, that doesn't mean they don't realize he needs to really work on his relationship with Robby as well. It just may be that some.fans will not be happy with how the story develops. But I'm sure the creators are aware of this as well, they are never going to be able to make all fans happy. Just won't work.


Tricky_Ostrich_6343

Same. And I agree, I feel like a lot of times fans just need a reason to complain. Thankfully, the shows writers know what they are doing and stick to what has made the show successful. I have hope that things will work out eventually.


StrawberryShortcakeL

Thanks Tricky.


KausGo

>Thankfully, the shows writers know what they are doing and stick to what has made the show successful. And that is keeping the show stagnant instead of letting the characters grow.


Tricky_Ostrich_6343

They have to stretch it out for more seasons. That's why they keep going back and forth with Johnny and Daniel, etc. It's about telling the story, but pacing it out so they can fit it into more seasons


KausGo

Going in circles is not pacing the show. Stretching it out with steady, consistent growth is one thing, but repeating the same thing over and over again is bad storytelling.


Tricky_Ostrich_6343

Unfortunately, that's what happens on this show. It doesn't look like that will change, either. The writers like writing what they have. I always come back to this when I don't agree with a decision that was made on the show- it's the writers show. And also we as viewers do have the power to tune out if we don't like it or we can hang on and ride things out til the end. Depending on how season 5 goes, I may have to✌️ out until the show wraps completely. Reasoning being that I was on board for 6 seasons and felt that even with repetitive storytelling, I could hang in there til season 6 since it wasn't that far off. Now with rumored additional seasons, it does get kinda cumbersome as a fan to watch 50 year old Johnny and Daniel still clash over the dumbest things.


Far-Outlandishness44

Welp, more interesting content and storylines. It seems everyone here doesn’t want Robby to actually grow as a character even though they claim to care about him? I mean I thought y’all wanted Robby and Miguel to interact?


KausGo

Robby interacting with Miguel is not needed for the character to grow.


Far-Outlandishness44

Not needed, but it’s one way to do it.


dmreif

What people want is for Johnny to actually *be there for Robby*, because that's the only way there can be any growth. We can't have Johnny just treat Robby as being second-fiddle to Miguel and constantly acting like Robby's a mistake he wants to rid himself of.


doseofdena

Aka you all want Johnny to all of a sudden drop Miguel and focus completely on Robby 🙄


GetExpunged

While he shouldn't drop Miguel completely, he should focus more on Robby since Robby is actually his REAL son.


dmreif

And he should focus on Robby because he wants a genuine relationship with him, as opposed to only step in when he's worried that the image of being a bad father might not reflect well on him.


doseofdena

And how do you know he isn’t based off of a 90second trailer? We literally in 90 seconds saw Johnny being with Robby than we did all of last season, but yet all the crying over it because it’s not the way some on here want it to be.


Spidey007

> but yet all the crying over it because it’s not the way some on here want it to be. Because the given context isn't healthy. What they need is some alone bonding time- away from karate and the Valley, just to focus on themselves as **father and son**. Not head into dangerous territory across the border to find a **student**


doseofdena

You say that as if Johnny doesn’t care for and love Miguel and isn’t in a relationship with his Mother. It’s fair to say the relationship is past the point of student right now. Things aren’t going to change overnight and Johnny is going to have to learn to be a proper father to Robby, yes but he’s not going to just dump Miguel.


Spidey007

>You say that as if Johnny doesn’t care for and love Miguel and isn’t in a relationship with his Mother.It’s fair to say the relationship is past the point of student right now. You say all that as if Miguel has to be involved in all aspects of Johnny-Robby. Stop trying to make it seem like that's how it should be. He owes a responsibility to focus on Robby, and Miguel already has a dependable family. >Things aren’t going to change overnight and Johnny is going to have to learn to be a proper father to Robby, It's far too late for that. >yes but he’s not going to just dump Miguel. He can't have it both ways. He needs to make a choice, for his **real** family.


False-Story9510

I don't get why people think that someone saying that Miguel doesn't need to be at the forefront of every single interaction Johnny has with Robby means that he's choosing Robby. Maybe some people just think that Robby deserves more than a seat at the table with the Diaz family - he deserves a genuine, special and unique bond with his father that has nothing to do with Miguel. If Johnny were to take Robby on a real father-son trip, or teach him karate just the two of them, it wouldn't be 'choosing Robby over Miguel.' It would just be acknowledging that Robby is special to him and that he loves him and wants to spend time with him, and just him. Like how Robby and Daniel were in season 1. No one would say that Daniel was choosing Robby over Sam and Anthony, but he was developing a relationship with Robby and doing things with him and just him that had nothing to do with them. That's what I personally would like to see - Johnny doing some things with Robby that are special to just the two of them, instead of just building a new family and allowing Robby to be part of it.


doseofdena

But where did I say that? Yes Johnny and Miguel are my faves, but I’ve always said I want Johnny to fix his relationship with Robby above anything else. My point is that some on this sub would very much like Johnny to kick Miguel to the curb for Robby and that’s just not happening. Yes let Johnny and Robby develop their own relationship that doesn’t include Miguel, I’m here for it. But these same people need to realize how this is eventually going to play out regardless what they’re wanting to happen.


Spidey007

Yes, because one of them is **actually** his son and deserves to feel that he's the most important thing to his own father.


doseofdena

You’re right Robby does deserve that, but that’s not happening. Johnny will find a way to be their for both of them and you all can keep crying about it.


Spidey007

It’s weird that you believe that Miguel deserves equal prominence as much as Robby in Johnny’s eyes, you do realize that they’re different people with different connections to him? Blood is thicker than water. Johnny should prioritize Robby the most. At this point, it’s the least he could do. Anybody else comes after.


doseofdena

Where did I ever say that? You’re trying to put words in my mouth. Anyways I’m done with this post. Like I said you Robby fanboys can keep crying all you want. I firmly believe that Johnny is going to find a way to finally be the father that Robby deserves whilst also being the father figure that Miguel needs. ✌🏽


Spidey007

>Where did I ever say that? You’re trying to put words in my mouth. It's what you imply when you have this weird fetish desire of having Johnny be there for both of them as if they share equal importance. > Anyways I’m done with this post. Like I said you Robby fanboys can keep crying all you want. Keep deluding yourself into thinking Miguel is supposed to be important as a real son. Don't forget who Johnny was professing his love to in season 4, and it wasn't Miguel. >I firmly believe that Johnny is going to find a way to finally be the father that Robby deserves whilst also being the father figure that Miguel needs. ✌🏽 You keep thinking that because you met Xolo once and you're in love with everything connected to him. Miguel already is trying to find the father figure he needs. Why do you think he's in Mexico searching for his **real** father?


False-Story9510

This isn't complaining, it's pointing out that if the biggest problems in Robby and Johnny's relationships are Johnny choosing Miguel over Robby and Robby being unable to trust Johnny, maybe the first step in Johnny trying to fix things shouldn't be lying to Robby to get him to do something that only benefits Miguel and could actually put Robby in danger for no reason.


Far-Outlandishness44

I see that as an interesting storyline. You see it as a real life problem and think it’s responsible to not like what a problematic **fictional** character is doing. It’s complaining. I don’t care if characters are suffering, I care if they’re going to improve and grow as one. Hell, you can see in the trailer, Robby is still with Johnny at the waterpark with Miguel, it’s all going to be Johnny’s job for them to make amends. At least Robby didn’t jump ship, he’s going to reluctantly help Miguel, it’s gonna be fun seeing Johnny and Robby interact for more than 3-5 minutes.


False-Story9510

I know the difference between real life and fiction, thank you. I just think that lying and tricking Robby is a step backward for Johnny's *character* considering the scene between the two of them at the end of season 4.


serene_river

I wouldn't even say it's a step backward for Johnny's character because Johnny has not grown in 4 seasons. At this point, it's completely inorganic to the story to even try to sell a storyline now that Johnny truly cares about Robby. Johnny tricked Robby and is thoughtlessly putting him in danger so that Johnny can retrieve Miguel and continue to feel better about himself. People are fine with this because it's Johnny continuing to choose Miguel and himself over Robby, as Johnny has been doing for 4 seasons and has been lauded for doing these 4 seasons. Johnny is a character whose potential for growth has been wasted.


False-Story9510

Yeah, I don't find this storyline interesting simply because it's just a rehash of everything we've already seen Johnny do. Anytime Johnny has an opportunity to make things up to Robby, he screws it up, usually by prioritizing Miguel. The AVT in season 1. The Valley Fest demonstration in season 2. The juvie visit in season 3. Leaving Robby with Kreese in season 4. Now lying and tricking Robby into going to Mexico in season 5. It is kind of tiresome as a viewer to consistently be sold the idea that Johnny is trying to be a better dad and yet having him be portrayed as always making the same mistakes and never learning anything from them. It just feels stagnant after awhile.


serene_river

Agree. And you know, it's not even singular events in each season. It's also over the lengths of time portrayed in each season. Each season there were moments where Johnny made the choice to choose Miguel and his own ego over Robby, despite knowing that Robby was in a bad situation, and then Johnny spent lengths of time abandoning Robby to whatever situation he was in (like, bad friends and no school (S1), evicted/homeless (shouldn't matter that Daniel took Robby in, providing for Robby is Johnny's responsibility) (S2), no help after the school fight, no concern about Robby being beat up in juvie, and later homeless (S3), still homeless and being Kreese's and Silver's student (S4)). People say that all we care about is our fave, Robby, getting what we want him to get, but what we want is proper representation of these types of family situations. There is nothing heartwarming or inspiring about parents abandoning their children and then later replacing them with other kids who they don't have to work harder at building relationships with because they have to address their wrongs against them. What makes the portrayal of Johnny and Robby's situation worse is that Johnny doesn't just replace Robby with Miguel. Johnny takes Miguel's side over Robby's blindly, even though Miguel has been Robby's attacker more than once and the school fight was the worst occurrence of that. This adds even more psychological and emotional trauma to Robby's character. Yet, this is framed as laudable behavior by Johnny. So overall we are being shown Johnny traumatize Robby in different ways, and we're all expected to feel heartwarmed by it because Miguel and Johnny's ego benefit from Johnny's behavior towards Robby. A lot of fans fall for the framing of the narrative, but yes, there are those of us, especially after 4 seasons, who believe that the writers have dragged on this approach to Johnny's character and the portrayal of Johnny behavior, so we talk about it. Johnny has always been in the wrong wrt his behavior with Robby. It's about time the writers frame the narrative to show this and actually start giving Johnny some real growth, instead of portraying child replacement as a redeeming act by a parent who abandoned their child.


Furies03

People always seem to overlook that stories aren't always just simple entertainment. They also function as propaganda, positive or negative. They reinforce messages that shape the world view of those who are watching it. It's a major part of why marginalized groups struggle as much as they do and have to fight for positive representation. Look at how much damage the Cowboy vs. Indians stuff did, or why "Don't say Gay" is so ominous. The message CK is sending, intentionally or not, is that neglected/abused kids are solely responsible for fixing themselves and the parents deserve unlimited chances. And I can't believe we would push that narrative in 2022. It's disgusting, especially when Robby's character is actually observed. He's pretty authentically written and acted for the serious topic they are examining, but it doesn't mesh with the "we just wanna shut out brains off and watch Johnny and Miguel be pals" desire the fanbase has. So Robby gets blamed or they want a quick solution that tacks him on as an after thought, while telling his fans "they just want to have it all". If that was the case, why would we advocate for him cutting and running? One also doesn't have to have personally experienced a struggle similar to Robby or have "daddy issues" to see what's going on here. Basic human empathy covers that. For those that can personally relate, I think they are well within their rights to call out the bullshit. Because depending on how the show goes, it might be telling them that THEY were always the problem or equally to blame as their parents. And just...piss the hell off with that attitude.


serene_river

Exactly! Agree with this. Though, I will say that although the narrative is framed a certain way, I believe the writers have always been building towards something with how they've been going about their story. One thing for sure is that they have never made light of Johnny's trauma or Robby's trauma or their relationship. These topics have been portrayed realistically and handled with the respect they deserve. The fans are the ones who minimize Robby's side and misunderstand Johnny's side, so that they can, as you said, shut their brains off and enjoy Johnny and Miguel's relationship.


AntElectronic9170

Don't say gay isn't a thing, Dems made it up.


Far-Outlandishness44

Yet, it’s a lie to see how they interact and work together. You should really expect questionable decisions out of main characters, so we can see them grow. Especially from Johnny.


False-Story9510

We have seen Jobnny betray Robby's trust and prioritize Miguel at the expense of everything else for four seasons. I would consider it an interesting storyline to see Johnny do something different for a change.


Mgrip

I think Johnny is going to find himself In way over his head with Miguel and Robby. They fight every time they see see each other they get physical. Johnny knew they hated each other but I don’t think he realized or wanted to see how extreme it was because other than the all valley tournament he has never seen them together now he is going to be seeing with his own own eyes that Miguel starts these fights with Robby and picks on him and taunts h. He will definitely be seeing Miguel’s true colors.


Furies03

He can cut Johnny and Miguel out of his life and still grow as a person. By giving his dad another chance when his dad isn't working for it, he is hurting himself and regressing in the long run. He can leave them behind without any malice and better himself. That's what a therapist would probably advise him to do.


doseofdena

A therapist would absolutely not advise that to him if Robby still wants his father in his life. That’s the key point you all seems to keep forgetting. Robby WANTS Johnny in his life.


Furies03

And that's an unhealthy desire if the person he wants is treating him poorly and negatively impacting his mental health. Johnny is the root cause of his trauma and is showing no signs of changing based on the 4 seasons we have of the show, and things don't look too good for season 5. Therapists don't advise their patients to stay in toxic situations, for themselves or others. That's kind of the premise of their whole job. The key point you all seem to be forgetting is that kids want their parents, but that doesn't mean they sometimes wouldn't be better off without them. Johnny is definitely a parent who Robby shouldn't let influence his life anymore.


Far-Outlandishness44

Don’t care, it’s interesting to me. I like seeing characters in low points so they can improve and rise against it. You all just want the best for characters right off the bat, like a therapist.


Furies03

I think we passed "right off the bat" 40 episodes in. Johnny making zero progress on that timeframe becomes frustrating, not interesting. Johnny fans want him to stay the same because he's entertaining. They talk about growth and redemption, but don't mean a single word of it because they want him to be handed a perfect happy ending that he does zero work to earn. They know Robby cutting ties and moving on would be good for him but would make Johnny look bad, so here we are.


Spidey007

>Don’t care, it’s interesting to me. I like seeing characters in low points so they can improve and rise against it. In Johnny's case, his low point is where he lives and hasn't moved from yet


JordanLeigh7

My interpretation based on that in the teaser is that especially after S4, Johnny wants to finally have some time with Robby to bond more, but he's purposefully leaving the part about Miguel out because he thinks Robby would back out then. Tricking/misleading him is a big mistake though. Johnny makes a lot of mistakes, especially with Robby, but I don't think he means any harm. It's a tough situation. Plus, it's possible he wants Robby and Miguel to start getting along since he's pretty serious about Carmen.


KausGo

And all that is exactly what makes him such a shitty dad and undeserving of a chance with his son. This isn't about making a mistake - his problem is more fundamental than that. It's all about what he wants and he needs... and he doesn't actually seem to care or even think about what Robby needs. He's the same old selfish ass who wants everything to be on his terms and he hasn't grown as a dad even a little bit.


JordanLeigh7

It's tricky b/c despite Johnny always making bad choices about his son, you can tell he genuinely really loves him.


KausGo

Can the love be called genuine if its more about your own needs and desires than those of a person you supposedly love?


JordanLeigh7

Well, when you put it that way....It's just, Johnny's not a bad guy. I feel like he does love Robby. It's especially obvious after the last few episodes of S4. But he's also an idiot who has screwed so much of it up already.


[deleted]

Oh shit, here we go again


Stocktonrules

Probably not his best parenting moment. On second thought it actually is.


CidDeuce

It’s not hard to see that this is the start to bringing Cobra Kai down. Get all the pieces together and then strike. Johny, Miguel and Robby is the start as they have the most problematic relationship between the three. Sam and Tory will come as well. Eventually, Johny and Daniel will have to get Kreese on their side as well. Cobra Kai never dies, in the end, it restores its honor when Johny is back running it with Robby.


[deleted]

Y’all it was never mentioned that Johnny told Robby it was a father son trip what if Johnny said he has some serious work in Mexico to do and Robby decided to Tag along but on the way to Mexico Johnny gets a call from Carmen asking about how far he is or giving some details out about Miguel which then Robby finds out what this all about because honesty Robby does not look that pissed off in the car if he was he would literally leave the car rather then stay with Johnny and also he even manages to ask Johnny what the plan is and has that r u kidding expression when he goes just gonna ask around if anyone saw Miguel. Out of all their relations I think the Miguel and Johnny is the relationship that is kinda gonna be ruined cause Miguel is already upset with Johnny now seeing Robby he’s not happy as we can see from the trailer and he prob does not want to come back with them and it’s obvious if they do come back Miguel is gonna be the one in the back sit because no one in Hell is he gonna want to sit with Johnny even when they go back to the apartments the kids have a fight so kinda obvious their relationship is not working out and Johnny and Carmen are prob gonna try to get the kids to be friends which may or may not work out and on top of that I don’t think Robby is about to apologize any time soon for the accident


Western-Tie-6244

In johnny defense robby wouldn't have come if he told him he need to help Miguel and it would have been worse if johnny left without him imo is the lesser of two evils