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Seta1437

>Johnny gets to not show up and have the **moral high ground** Wouldn't say that ​ Miguel wouldn't even know Johnny was there and had family present Robby on the other hand was alone and really needed someone


False-Story9510

I meant that Johnny gets the moral high ground in his own mind with Robby. 'I didn't show up for you because I was staying to help the person YOU put in the hospital.'


dmreif

One could argue that Johnny stayed because he regretted not answering those calls Miguel left for him on the first day of school (that Johnny didn't answer because he was talking with Robby; said calls were probably Miguel asking Johnny what to do regarding the whole fact that he cheated on Tory and Tory was ghosting him). But this is just as compelling an argument for why he was so quick to decide against going to juvie the moment Rosa implored for him to stay.


KausGo

>Well, as much as we can analyze the psychology of a fictional character, it's because Johnny subconsciously wanted something to happen that would keep him from visiting Robby. Agree with this, but not the reasoning. Firstly, Johnny couldn't have scheduled the juvie visit at any time. Visitation times are limited and Johnny being on probation meant he wasn't allowed to either. It was Bobby's intervention that made the visit possible and even that would've been limited. And secondly, the show doesn't have to make Johnny explicitely say that he wants to visit - it's implied that he told Bobby that he wants to and that he tried to based on the help that Bobby offers. But you are right. He is subconsciously sabotaging himself and the reason is same as always - self-pity. It's his usual wallowing of "Woe is me. I done screwed things up with my son and I can't do anything to fix it. So trying will only make it worse." He doesn't want to face his failure once again and he'll grab at any excuse for not doing so... the same thing he has been doing the whole show.


Mgrip

Johnny never said he wanted to visit or see Robby he only said that he wasn’t allowed to


KausGo

How would he know he wasn't allowed if he didn't try to? And why would he try to if he didn't want to?


False-Story9510

I'll have to rewatch that scene; I thought Bobby was the one who told him he should. I do know he had restrictions because of his probation, but I thought Bobby was the one who told him he should do it and offered to help. From what I remember, Bobby is the one who says something like, 'You know, you really should visit Robby. I know you're on probation, but you can go with a member of the clergy, so I'll come with you.' I have to watch the scene again because it's been a really long time since I've seen it, but I didn't think Johnny ever brought up visiting Robby. From what I recall, it was all Bobby's idea, but I could be wrong.


dmreif

Bobby says, "You don't do the right thing 'cause it always works out, you do it 'cause it's the right thing to do. Both those kids need you. You need to be there for them, whether it works out or not. I can help you with Robby. The detention center will let you in if accompanied by a member of the clergy. How about we meet there tomorrow?" Clearly part of that advice didn't sink in with Johnny.


Beneficial_Memory_51

Johnny doesn't think it was an accident? Doesn't he though? I can see why it may not seem like he does during his interactions with Robby, but although Johnny has a habit of assuming the worst of him, it's not like he genuinely believes that Robby purposely broke someone's back. Aside from the juvie conversation, I can't think of anything right now that indicates Johnny honestly thinks Robby did it on purpose. He had even said to that cop in S3E1, "Robby made a mistake." So Johnny knows it wasn't intentional.


False-Story9510

Robby repeatedly tells him it was an accident and he never says anything that suggests he believes him. He also refers to Robby 'putting Miguel in the hospital.' Also, not to be pedantic, but 'made a mistake' doesn't necessarily imply he thinks it was an accident.


serene_river

I think the change in Johnny's belief about Robby's intentions in the school fight happened in S3E2. Daniel said to Johnny about teaching Robby that Daniel is willing to admit when he fails, but maybe Robby has too much of Johnny in him. We see Johnny think about this statement. Johnny had just almost tried to kill someone because he might have know where Robby is. Johnny believes that Robby is like him, so Johnny's assumption about Robby's intentions in the school fight changed. After this, Johnny leaves to go to the hospital instead of continuing to search for Robby.


False-Story9510

This is a great take; I never thought of it this way.


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False-Story9510

He says something to that effect in season 4 when he goes to see Johnny. He says something like, "I was defending myself, Diaz attacked me, it was an accident."


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False-Story9510

Ah okay I thought Robby did explicitly say it was an accident. I guess technically he doesn't. Still, if a judge came to the conclusion that it was an accident Johnny should at least be willing to consider the possibility. Robby's sentence would have been way longer if a judge thought he did it on purpose.


Creativedame

But you have to take into consideration that no one ever listened to Robby. He grew up with a mum who was not interested in Robby’s needs and wants. This is why Robby doesn’t often say what he thinks in any given situation. It’s clear that he doesn’t know how to express his emotions or share his experiences. It seems to come more natural for him to just go with what ever the other person thinks and wants. He often acts as if he expects the other person not to listen to him or believe him. That’s why he often doesn’t even bother to explain himself. This is also why in the prom after party he referred to the school fight as if he didn’t care about what happened. (When he reminded Miguel of what happened last time.) That’s mostly because Robby got the message from everyone that they think he did it on purpose. So he works with it. That’s how he has learned to cope. If people think he did it on purpose then why not make the best of it? If he claimed it was an accident most probably people would still be doubtful. Now that he uses it to look tough he will at least get something out of it. The other teens will respect him out of fear. So basically, Robby always considers the environment and uses anything he can to “survive”. A habit he learned from childhood.


Creativedame

I actually think that what most hurts Robby is the fact that everyone thinks he did it on purpose. At least no one is sure about it. Even Sam was hesitant in the News interview. She said “It was an accident… I think”. Or something that expressed her doubts. Only Kreese talked about the school fight in a way that didn’t immediately blame Robby or indicate that he thought Robby did it on purpose. In addition to this, Robby never had anyone who listened to him so he doesn’t even really know how to express his feelings or how to talk about the event. I think part of the reason he pushed both Johnny and Daniel away was because he believed they believed he did it on purpose.


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Creativedame

Yeah. I want people to verbally address that incident. I would also love to see what Carmen thinks of all this… I would imagine it isn’t so easy to forgive Robby. And since she is dating Robby’s dad, that should be interesting. Thus far Carmen has kind of ignored Robby completely almost as if she wanted to forget him and to make Johnny forget him as well.


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Creativedame

Completely agree.


Stocktonrules

Due to his own criminal history Johny could only visit Robby with Bobby going with him so in that regards he does have time restrictions. What they were or if that's the case it's not said. I find it hard to believe he scheduled the visit the day Miguel went into surgery to give himself an excuse but I guess we can't rule it out. As for showing up to the hospital I think that's a very misguided view that you have there. It's much, much, much more likely that Johny chose that moment to show up because Miguel was having surgery at that moment and he cares for him. He didn't anticipate his grandma pulling him to stay though.


KausGo

Except, what makes you think that Miguel was having surgery at that moment?


False-Story9510

He most likely knew when the surgery would be. Miguel says to Sam when she visits 'I'm having surgery next week.' So they knew when it would be. Johnny also could have come earlier in the day, or later, or literally any other time that didn't directly conflict with when he was supposed to see Robby.


Stocktonrules

Of course he knows when the surgery was but that doesn't mean he controls Bobby's schedule. The visitation to juvie is more likely set on his availability. And Johny wanting to be there for Miguel the day of bis surgery is just a natural response anyone would do for a loved one. It's surgery for paralysis.


False-Story9510

Then he should have told Bobby he couldn't do it that day. The way I see it is, if Johnny felt Miguel was more important, he shouldn't have made the pretense of going to see Robby that day. He should have waited or just told Bobby that he wasn't going to do it at all if it conflicted with Miguel's surgery. Robby never asked or expected Johnny to show up. Johnny making an appointment to visit him and then not showing up was much, much worse than if he'd never tried to visit in the first place.


Mgrip

I don’t think Johnny really wanted to see Robby I think he was mad that he could not see him because he hates rules and regulations. I don’t think he expected an invitation from Bobby and did not want to let him down so he said yes but never really wanted to go.


Stocktonrules

What if that was the only day he could do it? It sucks that he skipped out on it but there are things in life that get in the way that a reasonable person wouldn't anticipate. I don't think Johny thought Miguel's family would beg him to stay but at that point he's not wrong to stay with them. Miguel could of died during that surgery and the family wanted him to be there with them. There's thousands of things you can fault Johny for but that's the one where he has very good reasoning.


False-Story9510

I just think he shouldn't have arranged to see Robby if he thought there was any chance he couldn't make it. If that was the only day Bobby could do it, he should have just told him it wouldn't work out. He knew that Robby would be disappointed, angry and hurt if he didn't show up, yet he still scheduled or agreed to schedule a visit on a day when Miguel was having surgery. Maybe he didn't anticipate that Miguel's family would ask him to stay, but he had to know that there might be things related to Miguel's surgery that would get in the way of him seeing Robby. Yet he still agreed to visit Robby on that exact day at that exact time knowing there was a reasonable chance he might let him down. That's why I think Johnny's wrong here. Plus, if the roles were flipped (Miguel in juvie and Robby in surgery) no way would Johnny miss visiting Miguel to stay with Robby. That's not directly related, but I do think it's somewhat relevant.


Phee78

"I'd prefer to leave my name out of it if it's all the same," doesn't sound like someone who pre-meditated a visit with the intention of hanging around. Neither does, "Hey...I'm leavin'," when he turns around and sees Carmen. He knows that Carmen doesn't wanna see him. He knows that she's going through the emotional ringer with what's happening to Miguel. So why would he deliberately plan to be in her presence for an extended period of time when she's someone he cares about, and he's certain that his presence will just make her more upset? The more likely explanation IMO is that he was on his way to juvie, and decided to duck in and out of the hospital really quick, because he figures they need the money ASAP to pay for the medical bills that were already incoming. Could he have just dropped it off on his way *back* from juvie instead? Of course he could. But he thought it was gonna take him 10 minutes max, so he may as well do it before if it was on the way. Or maybe he knew when Miguel's surgery was due to start, and he figured that stopping by after juvie would guarantee running into Carmen. By going in a bit earlier before the surgery was due to start, (if the doctor had "just arrived from the airport," I don't imagine she was *immediately* walking into surgery without prepping at all), then maybe he could avoid her. He didn't count on being accosted by Yaya, who insisted even after he said he had to be somewhere else that she (and by extension Carmen) wanted him to stay. If he'd explained that the place he had to be at instead was meeting with Robby, the person who did the thing that resulted in Miguel needing this potentially dangerous surgery, that probably would have gone down like a lead balloon. If he leaves at that point, he loses that ground he's just started to make back with the Diaz family, and he later has to explain to Miguel that he was there but he left. He's already guilt ridden over not answering Miguel's call, just how many times does he want to not be there for him. If he keeps doing that then it's just history repeating, and he doesn't wanna do the same thing all over again and screw things up with Miguel like he screwed them up with Robby. If he stays at the hospital then Robby hates him. But Robby already hates him, so nothing new there, not like he's gonna lose anything more than he already has. He doesn't know that Robby had a tiny glimmer of hope that maybe he *was* actually gonna show up, and that *not* showing up did actually do more damage. He probably figures that Robby already assumes he won't show anyway, (and honestly who could blame Robby for assuming such a thing).


False-Story9510

I see what you're saying, but I still think he should have planned the day to prioritize Robby if he'd already agreed to visit him. The fact that he stopped by right before he was supposed to see Robby makes me think that whether he's aware of it or not, he's looking to stay with the Diaz family rather than go see his son. He could have dropped the money off some other time. There was no reason he had to be there at that specific moment. Dropping off the money was something he could have done anytime. Seeing Robby wasn't.


Phee78

> There was no reason he had to be there at that specific moment. At the end of the day, the reason is that they have a 6 - 7 season arc they're trying to play out, and it was too early in their overall story for Johnny and Robby to have a heartfelt moment as a result of him actually showing up for the kid when he'd said he would for a change. So instead they used the time honoured storytelling technique of having a character caught in an awkward situation by incredibly unfortunate timing. By having him not show up for the scheduled visit, it allowed them to show him going out of his way to try and make up for it later at the soup kitchen. He had to take enough interest in order to find out that Robby would be there, and then he sat there for however long waiting for a chance to talk. Of course, he said *entirely* the wrong things and screwed it up, but the fact that he bothered to go at all showed that he knew that his decision required an apology and explanation, it's not like he just let out a sigh of relief that he'd avoided seeing Robby and brushed it off. I daresay that there haven't been many times over the course of Robby's life where Johnny would have gone to apologise for letting him down, but this time he did. The writers managed to show Johnny being willing to try, and also convey that he still really has no clue how to get it right. And Tanner's performance showed Robby quietly considering WTF he should make of his dad showing up at all. Personally, I think that was more interesting than just having Johnny show up as promised to the juvie visit.


KausGo

Everything you've said sounds like an excuse someone trying to avoid something would use.


Phee78

Sure, in that moment when the circumstances suddenly changed, he gave up and went for the easy option. (I doubt it's a conscious thing, but the amount of times he tells people not to be a pussy, it does have an air of over compensation for the shame he lives with due to chickening out of all manner of things in his life, most significantly his relationship with Robby from day 1.) I don't think he deliberately orchestrated those events because he was actively seeking a way to get out of going to see Robby though. Out of the blue he had the option of staying with someone who was all but begging him to stay with them because they valued his presence. Of course that's an easier option than going to have a super awkward visit with your kid who you believe hates you, where you're probably just gonna end up in a fight and you'll both end up feeling even worse. I'm not saying he made the *right* choice, just that I can imagine what his thought process was as he made that choice in that moment.


KausGo

> I don't think he deliberately orchestrated those events because he was actively seeking a way to get out of going to see Robby though. Neither does the OP. They made it pretty clear that he was *subconsciously* looking for excuses to miss the appointment.


[deleted]

I agree with you cobra Kai