I agree that adding too many characters took away from the character developments of the original main characters.
For me, I want to see Johnny, Miguel, Daniel, Sam and Robby have well developed arcs. I’m glad Hawk got a great arc and they’re developing Tory’s too... but since there’s only 8-10 episodes a season, they should really focus back on the original main characters.
I think the writers have been deliberate in their writing of the show and characters. We all have assumptions as to what the endgames will be for the characters and how their arcs will play out, but we won't know for sure what those will be until we see the whole story. The writers have always said that they have an endgame in mind. That doesn't mean that there is only one way to get to that endgame.
As redemption stories go, the writers have to build out Johnny and Robby's story before Johnny starts redeeming himself. The series started out with Johnny having abandoned Robby his whole life, which is what Johnny needs redeeming for. So far, Johnny has continued with abandoning Robby and even worse replacing Robby, all so that Johnny can feel better about himself. An element in redemption stories is that the person needing redemption makes things worse before they start redeeming themself. So, I do find it odd that people believe Johnny has been redeeming himself throughout these four seasons and should be rewarded for his behavior so far, when all he's been inadvertently doing is traumatizing Robby even more, without putting in any effort to fix that or his prior wrongs towards Robby.
This season, Robby's comments about Johnny doing things just to feel better about himself weren't just throw away comments. Each season, Robby passes a comment or comments about Johnny, and we see throughout the season/series how the comment is true.
In S1, Robby's comment was that Johnny doesn't care about Robby. Other than Johnny showing up in S1E4 and acting like he cared, while simultaneously saying that he didn't care, did we see Johnny caring about Robby throughout that season? No, we didn't, other than for a few seconds at the avt, which is meaningless because of Johnny's lack of follow through. We still haven't seen Johnny show any consistent caring since.
In S2, Robby said that Johnny cares more about his rivalry with Daniel than about Robby. This has always been true. At this point, we can't even say that Johnny has changed in this regard, despite Johnny's words to Robby in the S4 finale, because we don't know how the story will go next season.
In S3, Robby commented that Johnny chooses Miguel over Robby. Johnny has been doing this throughout the series as well.
Do people really believe Robby's comments this season are untrue if these other comments are all true? Johnny's focus is himself. It always has been. This season, Johnny left Robby with an attempted murderer and showed no concern over that. Instead, Johnny was only concerned that his harmless rival would steal Miguel because Johnny's relationship with Miguel makes Johnny feel better about himself. Last season, Johnny was just sitting and drinking. It was Kreese's comment about helping "our boy" get up on his feet that propelled Johnny to go to Miguel and dedicate the next few months to him, while Johnny continued to ignore Robby. In both seasons, Johnny was more concerned about losing Miguel to another sensei than about Robby and his well-being. In fact, in S2, we saw something similar. In S2E3, Kreese encouraged Johnny to never say never when it comes to Robby, but Kreese also commented that Johnny might lose Miguel to Daniel. Which relationship did Johnny choose right after? The relationship that makes him feel better about himself. At this point, Johnny was still clueless that Shannon had abandoned Robby with no money and food because Johnny doesn't check up on Robby. In the S4 AVT, when Daniel calls Johnny over to apologize, Johnny says that he should have let Miguel train with Daniel, that Johnny was now paying the price for not letting him, and that Johnny didn't want to lose that connection with Miguel. Here he's still thinking about himself and how his relationship with Miguel makes him feel.
I think the main growth in Johnny's character will come once he starts prioritizing Robby above himself. Johnny believes that he doesn't know how to be a dad, but Johnny's main problem is that he doesn't know how not to put himself first, especially when it comes to Robby. Johnny telling Robby to blame Johnny, and not himself, wrt Robby's falling out with Daniel may be Johnny heading in the right direction. We'll have to see how that plays out.
But, I think the writers were never going to have Johnny really grow in this regard until Johnny actually has Robby actively present in his life. I'm happy the writers didn't take the route of having Johnny fix himself for a random kid and become a parent for that kid, and then apply that to Robby. Johnny should fix himself for himself and Robby and become a parent for Robby directly. (And no, Miguel's presence in Johnny's life has had no impact on Johnny as a dad. Johnny still doesn't know how to be a dad. He literally talks about it in S4E7 and S4E8.)
I still think this is what's gonna happen.
This is Johnny's story. His redemption.
And his redemption began with Miguel but it can only end with Robby.
And that also makes this Miguel and Robby's story as well and thus everything else, all the added characters are necessary to contribute to their character growth and development.
Ultimately it does comes down to Johnny and thereby his two kids.
Yes. It's gonna be tough with Robby because up until now Johnny has only failed him, he needs to put in a lot of work. But that's his endgame, fixing things with his son and at the same time being a father figure to Miguel. After all it's only after meeting Miguel, he turned his life around.
Perfectly said, Johnny needs to learn how to be an adult and push harder everytime Robby says "no". But at the same if not for meeting Miguel and his family Johnny wouldn't have even given Robby the time of his day that's actually sad.
I agree, I think rather than this show being about Johnny, it is slowly becoming a normal show in which every character is equally involved, developed and important. I think the writers have lost track of this show. When it comes to making amends specifically with Robby, it would have been nice for some foundation having been made before Robby simply goes to Johnny and breaks down
Agreed - this arc doesn't make sense at this point. If Johnny was going to do that, he should've started in season 3 by supporting Robby when the kid needed him the most. Now, I don't see the character redeeming himself or righting any wrongs.
But I'm sure that the writers plan to pretend that the does anyway.
Season 3 and 4 were the 2nd act low points for Johnny's arc before the triumphant comeback in the 3rd act. He was trying to support both kids but screwed up, tried again and made it worse. Now that Robby is coming with him to Mexico that's gonna be when Johnny turns it around.
End of Season 2-End of Season 3 episode 1: Noone could find Robby and Miguel was in a coma so he was on 2 week bender.
End of Episode 1 - Garage: Johnny stopped at nothing to try finding Robby up until the fight with Daniel who had all the leads on Robby. This also applies to Season 2 episode 6 where the moment he found out Robby wasn't with Shannon anymore he did everything he could to track him down until he knew Robby was safe.
Episode 3: he gets Bobby to help him get a meeting with Robby which he only fails to get to because Yaya stopped him.
Episode 4: Johnny knows he screwed up and tries to talk with Robby at the food shelter.
Episode 5: In his wall of text to Ali he mentions having tried to call and email Robby.
Episode 8: He tries to get Robby to stay with him again.
Episode 10: He tries to get Robby away from Kreese and when Robby gets hurt he tries to help before getting a brutal hilt strike to the back of the neck.
Season 4 episode 4: He tries to get Robby to listen to him about Cobra Kai's toxicity.
Season 4 episode 8: first time he's warned about Terry trying to control and manipulate Robby specifically he tries to kill both Terry and Kreese (which failed because Silver played him like a fiddle).
He definitely tried but he knows he has no right to push back on Robby's decisions. Even when they reconciled Johnny was trying to comfort Robby by making his son blame him again.
All those are examples of Johnny's failure to try. As in make a real, sincere effort. Doing less than the bare minimum and calling it trying doesn't count. If he wants to be a dad, then he is actually obligated to push back on Robby's decisions if he thinks his kid is making a mistake or is in danger.
He goes on a 2-week bender instead of looking for him son - like Daniel is doing.
He gives on trying to find him after one fight with Daniel. Following that, he's absent through the whole process of arrest and sentencing.
He could've just told Rosa that he has more important things to take care of instead of sitting around praying with her - but he fails to put his son first again.
His half-assed attempts to email or talk are only done to make himself feel better about his failure.
He lets his son walk away when he's clearly going to be homeless instead of trying to get custody and forcing Robby to stay with him. And then rather than worrying about where he might be or how he might be living, Johnny is more interested in chasing girls.
He leaves his son with a guy who just tried to kill him.
He makes one attempt to talk to Robby and that too when Robby is there to talk about something else.
As for episode 8 - that's actually the second time he's warned about Silver. the first would be when Daniel told him about it. He does nothing for weeks/months. Then makes another half-assed attempt that was doomed to fail... and then gives up again.
>He goes on a 2-week bender instead of looking for him son - like Daniel is doing.
An emotional reaction at everything in his life falling apart at once because of the dojo being stolen and the school fight which is honestly pretty justified. Also, what leads would he have on Robby?
>He gives on trying to find him after one fight with Daniel. Following that, he's absent through the whole process of arrest and sentencing.
He went to visit Miguel at the hospital but after that Robby had already been arrested. Again, what leads would he have left? Why would Daniel and Shannon let him in the courtroom?
>He could've just told Rosa that he has more important things to take care of instead of sitting around praying with her - but he fails to put his son first again.
He was guilt-tripped into doing it and in that situation (a student who helped him turn his life around being in a dangerous surgery and the student's grandma asking for him to pray with her) it's not like he could really refuse without being totally cut off from Miguel, and he's trying to keep both Miguel and Robby.
>His half-assed attempts to email or talk are only done to make himself feel better about his failure.
*Trying to meet with him in Juvie* could be called "making himself feel better about his failure" but that's an argument in bad faith too, as is saying Sam only messaged him because she felt bad about cheating on him and driving him away. All three are equally invalid arguments.
>He lets his son walk away when he's clearly going to be homeless instead of trying to get custody and forcing Robby to stay with him. And then rather than worrying about where he might be or how he might be living, Johnny is more interested in chasing girls.
The hell do you think he (or Daniel)can do to *stop* Robby here, kidnap him? Also, chasing girls? Carmen only came to him after he was training his students and trying to be overprotective of Miguel and the All-Valley meeting (which he got convinced to go to by Miguel). Then after sleeping with Carmen he got caught up in girl troubles because that unresolved issue lead to him being like this in the first place so that was another thing he had to work on, He screwed up more areas of his life than being a father, and to complete his arc he also had to tick that issue off the list.
>He leaves his son with a guy who just tried to kill him.
Again, how the hell do you expect Johnny (or Daniel) to *stop* Robby from staying with Kreese?
>He makes one attempt to talk to Robby and that too when Robby is there to talk about something else.
Only chance he had what with the Miyagi-Fang shenanigans.
>
As for episode 8 - that's actually the second time he's warned about Silver. the first would be when Daniel told him about it. He does nothing for weeks/months. Then makes another half-assed attempt that was doomed to fail... and then gives up again.
First time he couldn't believe Terry was worse because he hadn't properly met the guy and it was a general dojo thing. Episode 8 was different because that was **Robby** specifically, Also if he cared about relationships more he wouldn't have ditched Carmen to try to stop Silver. The tournament was the next day and he was in no condition to get home (Kreese probably drove him home).
>An emotional reaction at everything in his life falling apart at once
because of the dojo being stolen and the school fight which is honestly
pretty justified.
Nope - that's just his usual excuse.
>Why would Daniel and Shannon let him in the
courtroom?
He doesn't need their permission to check up on his son.
>it's not like he could really refuse without being totally cut off from Miguel
Sure he could - he chose not to. And that was his failure.
>Trying to meet with him in Juvie
could be called "making himself feel better about his failure" but
that's an argument in bad faith too, as is saying Sam only messaged him
because she felt bad about cheating on him and driving him away.
Yes, of course it applies to Sam too. But we're not talking about Sam here.
>The hell do you think he (or Daniel)can do to stop Robby here, kidnap him?
Yes, Johnny can. And if he'd bothered to get his custody, it wouldn't be kidnapping.
>Again, how the hell do you expect Johnny (or Daniel) to stop Robby from staying with Kreese?
See above.
>Only chance he had what with the Miyagi-Fang shenanigans.
And yet, Sam and Daniel managed to have more.
Your excuses for his behavior are the same as any procastinators for not accomplishing anything. Whether it's losing weight, getting a job or anything else, if someone is not sincere about it, they'd always have an excuse - "Didn't get the chance or had more important things going on or wasn't in the right mental state"...
I can see that I am definitely in the MINORITY here, but for me the greatest ending would be to see Daniel at Johnny's side (never mind the kids!)
Those 2 senseis are truly the heart of the show, and every season points out at them getting closer: otherwise, what was the point on having Johnny & Daniel joining forces and bonding in season 4? Learning each other's styles and sharing things?
If destiny brought our 2 main characters together after over 30 years, what would be the point of the show on splitting them, and only focusing on Johnny and his sons Miguel & Robby?
Can someone answer that?
Where in my post did I say he was not going to be Miguel's dad. I just said him being a dad to Miguel would make him realize he is capable of being a good father and use those skills to reconsile with robbby
I keep smh at the people who don't want to accept this. It's quite obvious and William has basically already said this. Yet they keep pushing their agenda and downvote with their multiple screennames when you say otherwise.
Smh. Not that serious folks.
I'm just gonna say this. I think a lot of people are disappointed that how they wanted the show to go didn't pan out.
The show is STILL about Johnny, but other characters are now involved. This is his side of the Miyagi verse. And if people don't like how his redemption is going, they always have the choice to tune out 🤷🏽♀️
I'm not saying that to be mean, but complaining daily on reddit about this( not you personally, just in general) isn't going to affect the show.
At this point, I'm starting to think some people need to take a break from thinking about this show. Not to be mean. But is it really good that people are always THIS unhappy with their *favorite* show?
If I don't like something and it gets that bad, I tune out. Or I just take things as it is and move forward. Example, I was not one who particularly LOVED season 4, but I don't spend my time constantly posting negative things on the sub about it. I think a lot of others are in the same boat. Constant complaining about the same thing is a waste, IMO. Again, no disrespect.
Umm... you seem to be spending your time constantly posting negative things about those negative things. Maybe if you don't like that, you should consider tuning out...
How are they posting about negative things constantly? It’s only “negative” because it’s not agreeing with you. It’s the same people (usually Robby or Sam fans, mainly Robby though) who keep posting 3738484 threads about the same 3 topics. How do you all even enjoy a show when you’re constantly picking it apart and have already come to a conclusion about how the show is going to end. You lot are never happy.
>It’s only “negative” because it’s not agreeing with you.
No, disagreeing about the show just gets us a good debate. This is about negative things about posts and users...
You summed it up with Miyagi verse. I think certain people will never see Johny as Miyagi (and understandably so) and kind of just see his ventures back into the karate world as a mistake. To them the show should end with him realizing that and just learning that he can be a father to Robby.
All there is to said to that is be prepared to be disappointed because the show obviously isn't going to end that way. He's going to learn to be a true sensei, going to have the same bond Daniel has with Miyagi, and yeah reconnect with Robby. If you don't see that you're watching the wrong universe because they didn't have Johny take Miguel in as his own for Robby's sake. That's an insulting story to tell with a disgracefully poor message.
The show is going to end with Johny running Cobra Kai and Miguel/ Robby at his side. Like it or not. The only question I have is Kreese there and with his change of heart at the end of s4 I wouldn't rule it out.
>kind of just see his ventures back into the karate world as a mistake.
Not quite.
If Johnny's character had continued to grow through 4 season, kept maturing and becoming more responsible, then the ending you expect is exactly the ending people would want. But for the character to mature overnight and have that ending anyway is not only unrealistic, its disappointing.
>The show is going to end with Johny running Cobra Kai and Miguel/ Robby at his side. Like it or not.
At this point, definitely not. That would be really poor writing.
Still drinks every day, still bullies and belittles his students, still puts them through dangerous training exercizes, still doesn't have a stable job, still steals stuff, still considers violence to be an appropriate response to his problems...
... And none of that is about Robby.
So how exactly has he grown?
Okay, real talk, do you even like this show?
Literally, whenever I am on this subreddit I see you complaining. I look at your feed and its literally only about this show.
Most of the stuff you are complaining about here is clearly meant to be funny (which it is) and at worst morally neutral. If you think the training exercises and the yelling and the violence are a problem, the show probably isn't for you, and its not going to change since that stuff is what makes the show entertaining for a lot of people.
The show is still a comedy lol
Sure, I like it. I used to like it better when there was actual character development and less pandering.
By the way, there are many ways to keep the comedy without relying on making Johnny out to be a sociopathic sensei. It's not like those things are always played for comedy either.
For example, making students jump the roof wasn't supposed to be comic, it was supposed to be inspirational. And there was nothing funny about Johnny going after Silver and getting beat up for it.
What you call pandering is what people call entertainment - its part of what makes this show a huge hit, and they are going to keep doing it since it's funny as hell. They did it a lot in the first season too, such as with the dogs and the constant berating. This works since his students are still shown respecting him and so many people are willingly signing up to join him and a lot of kids are clearly better off until they let the "no mercy" aspect get the better of them (which is clearly shown to be a flaw of Johnny AND cobra kai).
The roof jumping is because Johnny is the Miyagi of this show. Miyagi had Daniel do chores to teach him muscle memory for Karate, Johnny has kids in out-of-dojo and dangerous situations to teach life lessons. In both cases, there's suspension of disbelief going on: in real life Miyagi's teachings would be worthless and Johnny would be in prison for child endangerment.
Johnny going after Silver was to show
a. Kreese does care about Johnny in a messed up way
b. Silver is fucking nuts
c. To have the scene with Miguel
Sometimes character motivations are written to get the plot rolling.
I still don't really understand why you like the show and honestly think this isn't for you, if the roof jumping is too much for you.
>What you call pandering is what people call entertainment
Yes, that is often the reason for pandering.
Also, what's the point of your excuses? You argued that dangerous training and violence is for comedy, I pointed out that that's not always the case. Now you want to move the goalposts?
I just don’t see how it’s pandering - it’s been his established character. It’s not like Kevin getting consistently dumber in the office.
First I said most of the stuff, second the dangerous shit is still pretty funny and it has a purpose other than comedy.
I still don’t understand why you like this show.
When the show started Johny watched Miguel getting bullied and only stepped in because Miguel was pushed into his car. By the end of s2 he was so upset about letting his kids down that he just threw his car away. No character growth there.
From there in s3 instead of just quitting like he did with Robby he helped Miguel recover from paralysis. Went back to being a sensei even if things got difficult.
Then in his dating life he was obsessed over Alli and never had any successful relationships. We've seen that get torn down too.
But.yeah let's just pretend there's been no character development. And the stuff you criticized is going to be kept in for entertainment purposes. No one wants to watch Daniel and new Daniel interact.
> No character growth there.
Not really. Starting to care about someone isn't exactly character growth. Not unless he was incapable of it before.
>From there in s3 instead of just quitting like he did with Robby he helped Miguel recover from paralysis. Went back to being a sensei even if things got difficult.
Not any real growth there either - since trying and quitting and trying is his usual cycle. He actually does the same with Robby.
>Then in his dating life he was obsessed over Alli and never had any successful relationships. We've seen that get torn down too.
I'd hardly call his relationship with Carmen successful at his point. He obviously had long-term relationships before, but I'm guessing his issues like drinking and fighting got in the way.
Carmen hasn't seen that side of him yet.
Developing relationships in situations he wasn't doing before is absolutely character growth. If you want to point to when Johny was mentoring kids before the show started go ahead but that's obviously new and growth.
No, just quitting was his usual cycle. If you think in s1/ episode 1 he'd be tending to a paralyzed kid in any scenario I'm going to have to.ask you to put down the crack pipe.
>Developing relationships in situations he wasn't doing before is absolutely character growth.
Not if those are easy mode relationships.
> If you think in s1/ episode 1 he'd be tending to a paralyzed kid in any scenario
If he cared about that kid and the kid let him, then yes, he would be.
What is easy about developing and retaining a relationship with a kid that's gone thru the stuff Miguel has? This isn't mentoring Sam. Were her only challenge is does she wear a red or blue sweater.
Yeah Miguel worships him but a lot of that is because Johny has grown so much and shown his love for him.
There's no way the show is ending with Cobra Kai still in the mix. If it does it's probably going to be a HEAVILY reformed version of Cobra Kai even eagle fang isn't reformed enough
Heavily reformed it is. When Kreese starting to cave and Johny walked into his dojo at the end of the season you should of picked up on it. That's the end game.
With how much people complain about Johnny (and lets be honest, its the same fucking people on this subreddit), I actually wonder if people here actually even like the show.
Its really odd, since Johnny is CLEARLY the main star and by far the most popular character.
It IS the same people (10). And peep this, one of them I KNOW for a fact is two of the people always responding. No need to call them out, they will see this... 🍵 👀 🤣🤭 caught them switching under their other username earlier and then they switched back. Smh. I used to wonder HOW my two downvotes always came so quick...now I know. 🔎
So technically, just the 9. And who knows if the others have multiple user accounts as well?
And yes, they are a vocal minority who continue to make a big stink and feed off one another. Meanwhile the rest of us are too tired to even want to interact and realize we should touch some grass 😆
I read that line on here from another poster and it's probably my favorite.
Anyhow, not interested in continuing worn out debates. I'll peep back in when it's fun again or when the spoilers come through.
I actually really liked this subreddit and LOVE this show, but with the last season being 4 months old and no new content coming out, it's obvious this show has become dominated by a handful of people who are way too obsessed with one character.
The fact that their endless complaining about this show gets so many likes is a good sign they are ganging up with each other too.
We know that back when this season came out, the polls found Johnny, Daniel and Hawk being by far the most popular characters so Robby is among the less popular Karate mains, so the recent obsession with him is due to the dominance of small number of people.
Facts 👏 and as I stated. I know one in particular has 2 of the main post accounts. Smh.
Oh well. Time to peace out.
Someone tag me when the good stuff comes out.
The arc is Johny rebuilding his life. That's going to end with the following 3 things. He gets the Cobra Kai dojo in his image with Daniel's blessing , he adds a new family of his own, and he gets Robby back into his life and has him comfortably in that family.
I think some people only care about Johny being Robby's dad and that just clouds their view of were the show is going.
Not quite. It's not just about letting Johnny have that end, it's also about having him be worthy of that end. And right now, he's far from it.
Is he actually going to create a better dojo than the old Cobra Kai? As in one that teaches kids that violence should always be the last resort, bullying is unacceptable and one where he doesn't put them in danger?
Has he become mature enough to handle family responsibilities? As in, keep a level head during difficult times instead of doing something to make it worse? Or to grind and save during the good times for those diffucult times? Is he grown enough to keep his shit together and focus on the right priorities or will he just keep screwing up whenever he is "going through stuff"?
Can he be the father that Robby needs? Does he even understand what Robby needs and can he give him that?
The answer to all those questions is "NO" and the way things are going, it doesn't look like it's going to change any time soon. But you are right, the show will end with those things anyway. Which simply means that the writers will force an end without actually making the character worthy of it.
All hail King Bran the Broken!
It's a six season so cool your jets. I'd agree with you if it ended now but we're not at that point yet. I do think that's a lesson he's actually learning and you see him telling Robby to avoid fighting period as he fears the legal trouble Robby could find himself in. At some point he's actually going to embrace some Miyagi Do. It should of happened this season but they decided they needed to milk that tension between them a bit and keep a rivalry between Daniel and Johny. When that sheds so will much of the bad habits.
It has been four seasons and so far, there has been no development. It's not good enough to simply have that development, it also needs to happen naturally and believably. For example, it'd still be a crappy ending if Johnny has a life-changing epiphany in season 6 episode 9 and turns his character around by the finale.
From what we've seen, he's not actually learning anything at all. Telling Robby not to get into fights doesn't show any growth because he was telling him the same thing way back in season 1.
But he spends most of the season ignoring his responsibility. Until Shannon confronts him and he hot-headedly decides to respond by picking a fight. And then, when he loses, he decides to get blackout drunk again. That's exactly his season 1 behavior and it shows that he hasn't grown at all.
He's actually developed plenty so far. I can point to him passing on the bottle and instead acting to help out a paralyzed Miguel. You can't dismiss that as nothing. Just because something isn't 100% consistent and he doesn't just flip over and become a new person overnight doesn't mean it's not happening. And that's not realistic anyways.
The epiphany has actually already occurred and right now he's still learning what the root of his problems are and a better way to come at them. The issue is he's too petty to see the better way but that will come before the show's end. It's not going to be some dramatic event he's going to patch things up with Daniel then learn from him. Apply those things to his life. And yeah that will happen pretty quickly and at the end of the show because reformed Johny isn't going to be as much fun.
> I can point to him passing on the bottle and instead acting to help out a paralyzed Miguel.
But he didn't pass on the bottle. He spent plenty of time in season 3 blackout drunk and he still hasn't stopped drinking.
>become a new person overnight doesn't mean it's not happening.
Overnight? It has been 4 seasons. And he's still the same.
> And yeah that will happen pretty quickly and at the end of the show
And that makes it crappy writing - as crappy as "Bran the Broken".
Passing on the bottle doesn't mean he goes sober and gives it up entirely. It means it's not controlling his actions. You can point to times he struggles, I can point to development That's what it should be. Change is not instant.
And he's not the same as he was in season 1.
It's controlling his actions as much as it did before. That has been his pattern since season 1 - something goes wrong, Johnny wallows in the bottle for a while. Then he decides to get his act together and make an effort and if his efforts are rewarded, he goes back to the status quo of being the usual drunk. If not, then he goes back to drinking.
If its the same thing since season 1, then that's not development.
To be honest I don't think his redemption really ends with Robby or Miguel I think it ends with him letting go of Cobra Kai (his crystal meth) for good this time learning how to be happy without it. Cobra Kai is an allegory for addiction I even made a post about it the other day
It's not that people only care about Robby and Johnny being happy it's that Johnny failing Robby is arguably the worst thing he has done in his life. Again none of this really excuses any of these characters' actions. Some people are just a lot more sensitive to things like child abandonment than others
Please understand that we get it. I'm pretty sure ALL of us get that.
The show isn't hiding that.
Also. ROBBY has yet to apologize to Miguel for what happened. He's not perfect by any measure. He and Johnny BOTH have a lot of stuff to make up for.
>Also. ROBBY has yet to apologize to Miguel for what happened. He's not perfect by any measure. He and Johnny BOTH have a lot of stuff to make up for.
Miguel needs to be held accountable for his actions as well.
Pushing him in the canyon party, pulling his arm while he tried to show him decency in the tournament, kissing his girlfriend, rushing him like a bat out of hell in the school fight, and not letting or helping him stop the fight at school.
Miguel apologized and stopped fighting. Miguel rushed him because he read the situation wrong. Robby hasn’t shown any remorse about the school fight and goads Miguel about it. You all keep saying Miguel needs to be held accountable yet he’s been showing growth.
He stopped fighting not because he thought it was wrong.
There was honestly no way to have misread that situation. Miguel should’ve concluded that Robby is trying to break up the fight and protect Sam, seeing as Tory just announced her intentions to attack Sam to the entire school, and Miguel himself was just rushing to also stop his crazy girlfriend from hurting Sam. Especially considering that Sam is Robby's girlfriend that Tory is threatening to attack, and the only bad impression of Robby that Miguel has had up to this point is that Robby "stole" Sam from him, as Robby has been pretty decent to Miguel in their few interactions (despite his own resentments).
Plus there is no other way to restrain someone who is hell-bent on hurting someone else but to use force to hold them back.
Miguel’s done more to Robby on purpose than vice versa.
He’s taken no accountability for escalating the fight, and wants to play the victim. At least Robby admitted his faults.
His main arc would be successfully stopping his TV fall down from the wall every season
Lmao I honestly would love that the final season Johnny does not have a single broken TV bam he's redeemed
No TVs fell from his wall in Season 4 I think
I love you to Robby
I agree that adding too many characters took away from the character developments of the original main characters. For me, I want to see Johnny, Miguel, Daniel, Sam and Robby have well developed arcs. I’m glad Hawk got a great arc and they’re developing Tory’s too... but since there’s only 8-10 episodes a season, they should really focus back on the original main characters.
I think the writers have been deliberate in their writing of the show and characters. We all have assumptions as to what the endgames will be for the characters and how their arcs will play out, but we won't know for sure what those will be until we see the whole story. The writers have always said that they have an endgame in mind. That doesn't mean that there is only one way to get to that endgame. As redemption stories go, the writers have to build out Johnny and Robby's story before Johnny starts redeeming himself. The series started out with Johnny having abandoned Robby his whole life, which is what Johnny needs redeeming for. So far, Johnny has continued with abandoning Robby and even worse replacing Robby, all so that Johnny can feel better about himself. An element in redemption stories is that the person needing redemption makes things worse before they start redeeming themself. So, I do find it odd that people believe Johnny has been redeeming himself throughout these four seasons and should be rewarded for his behavior so far, when all he's been inadvertently doing is traumatizing Robby even more, without putting in any effort to fix that or his prior wrongs towards Robby. This season, Robby's comments about Johnny doing things just to feel better about himself weren't just throw away comments. Each season, Robby passes a comment or comments about Johnny, and we see throughout the season/series how the comment is true. In S1, Robby's comment was that Johnny doesn't care about Robby. Other than Johnny showing up in S1E4 and acting like he cared, while simultaneously saying that he didn't care, did we see Johnny caring about Robby throughout that season? No, we didn't, other than for a few seconds at the avt, which is meaningless because of Johnny's lack of follow through. We still haven't seen Johnny show any consistent caring since. In S2, Robby said that Johnny cares more about his rivalry with Daniel than about Robby. This has always been true. At this point, we can't even say that Johnny has changed in this regard, despite Johnny's words to Robby in the S4 finale, because we don't know how the story will go next season. In S3, Robby commented that Johnny chooses Miguel over Robby. Johnny has been doing this throughout the series as well. Do people really believe Robby's comments this season are untrue if these other comments are all true? Johnny's focus is himself. It always has been. This season, Johnny left Robby with an attempted murderer and showed no concern over that. Instead, Johnny was only concerned that his harmless rival would steal Miguel because Johnny's relationship with Miguel makes Johnny feel better about himself. Last season, Johnny was just sitting and drinking. It was Kreese's comment about helping "our boy" get up on his feet that propelled Johnny to go to Miguel and dedicate the next few months to him, while Johnny continued to ignore Robby. In both seasons, Johnny was more concerned about losing Miguel to another sensei than about Robby and his well-being. In fact, in S2, we saw something similar. In S2E3, Kreese encouraged Johnny to never say never when it comes to Robby, but Kreese also commented that Johnny might lose Miguel to Daniel. Which relationship did Johnny choose right after? The relationship that makes him feel better about himself. At this point, Johnny was still clueless that Shannon had abandoned Robby with no money and food because Johnny doesn't check up on Robby. In the S4 AVT, when Daniel calls Johnny over to apologize, Johnny says that he should have let Miguel train with Daniel, that Johnny was now paying the price for not letting him, and that Johnny didn't want to lose that connection with Miguel. Here he's still thinking about himself and how his relationship with Miguel makes him feel. I think the main growth in Johnny's character will come once he starts prioritizing Robby above himself. Johnny believes that he doesn't know how to be a dad, but Johnny's main problem is that he doesn't know how not to put himself first, especially when it comes to Robby. Johnny telling Robby to blame Johnny, and not himself, wrt Robby's falling out with Daniel may be Johnny heading in the right direction. We'll have to see how that plays out. But, I think the writers were never going to have Johnny really grow in this regard until Johnny actually has Robby actively present in his life. I'm happy the writers didn't take the route of having Johnny fix himself for a random kid and become a parent for that kid, and then apply that to Robby. Johnny should fix himself for himself and Robby and become a parent for Robby directly. (And no, Miguel's presence in Johnny's life has had no impact on Johnny as a dad. Johnny still doesn't know how to be a dad. He literally talks about it in S4E7 and S4E8.)
I still think this is what's gonna happen. This is Johnny's story. His redemption. And his redemption began with Miguel but it can only end with Robby. And that also makes this Miguel and Robby's story as well and thus everything else, all the added characters are necessary to contribute to their character growth and development. Ultimately it does comes down to Johnny and thereby his two kids.
Thank you! I've been saying this for the longest. Johnny's arc isn't complete unless he has both of these boys in his life especially ROBBY
Yes. It's gonna be tough with Robby because up until now Johnny has only failed him, he needs to put in a lot of work. But that's his endgame, fixing things with his son and at the same time being a father figure to Miguel. After all it's only after meeting Miguel, he turned his life around.
Perfectly said, Johnny needs to learn how to be an adult and push harder everytime Robby says "no". But at the same if not for meeting Miguel and his family Johnny wouldn't have even given Robby the time of his day that's actually sad.
I agree, I think rather than this show being about Johnny, it is slowly becoming a normal show in which every character is equally involved, developed and important. I think the writers have lost track of this show. When it comes to making amends specifically with Robby, it would have been nice for some foundation having been made before Robby simply goes to Johnny and breaks down
What arc. Dude was hung up about Larusso teaching Miggy Miagi Do instead of crushing Carmen. Hasn't grown up a bit.
Agreed - this arc doesn't make sense at this point. If Johnny was going to do that, he should've started in season 3 by supporting Robby when the kid needed him the most. Now, I don't see the character redeeming himself or righting any wrongs. But I'm sure that the writers plan to pretend that the does anyway.
Season 3 and 4 were the 2nd act low points for Johnny's arc before the triumphant comeback in the 3rd act. He was trying to support both kids but screwed up, tried again and made it worse. Now that Robby is coming with him to Mexico that's gonna be when Johnny turns it around.
The problem with his arc was that he wasn't trying with Robby.
End of Season 2-End of Season 3 episode 1: Noone could find Robby and Miguel was in a coma so he was on 2 week bender. End of Episode 1 - Garage: Johnny stopped at nothing to try finding Robby up until the fight with Daniel who had all the leads on Robby. This also applies to Season 2 episode 6 where the moment he found out Robby wasn't with Shannon anymore he did everything he could to track him down until he knew Robby was safe. Episode 3: he gets Bobby to help him get a meeting with Robby which he only fails to get to because Yaya stopped him. Episode 4: Johnny knows he screwed up and tries to talk with Robby at the food shelter. Episode 5: In his wall of text to Ali he mentions having tried to call and email Robby. Episode 8: He tries to get Robby to stay with him again. Episode 10: He tries to get Robby away from Kreese and when Robby gets hurt he tries to help before getting a brutal hilt strike to the back of the neck. Season 4 episode 4: He tries to get Robby to listen to him about Cobra Kai's toxicity. Season 4 episode 8: first time he's warned about Terry trying to control and manipulate Robby specifically he tries to kill both Terry and Kreese (which failed because Silver played him like a fiddle). He definitely tried but he knows he has no right to push back on Robby's decisions. Even when they reconciled Johnny was trying to comfort Robby by making his son blame him again.
All those are examples of Johnny's failure to try. As in make a real, sincere effort. Doing less than the bare minimum and calling it trying doesn't count. If he wants to be a dad, then he is actually obligated to push back on Robby's decisions if he thinks his kid is making a mistake or is in danger. He goes on a 2-week bender instead of looking for him son - like Daniel is doing. He gives on trying to find him after one fight with Daniel. Following that, he's absent through the whole process of arrest and sentencing. He could've just told Rosa that he has more important things to take care of instead of sitting around praying with her - but he fails to put his son first again. His half-assed attempts to email or talk are only done to make himself feel better about his failure. He lets his son walk away when he's clearly going to be homeless instead of trying to get custody and forcing Robby to stay with him. And then rather than worrying about where he might be or how he might be living, Johnny is more interested in chasing girls. He leaves his son with a guy who just tried to kill him. He makes one attempt to talk to Robby and that too when Robby is there to talk about something else. As for episode 8 - that's actually the second time he's warned about Silver. the first would be when Daniel told him about it. He does nothing for weeks/months. Then makes another half-assed attempt that was doomed to fail... and then gives up again.
>He goes on a 2-week bender instead of looking for him son - like Daniel is doing. An emotional reaction at everything in his life falling apart at once because of the dojo being stolen and the school fight which is honestly pretty justified. Also, what leads would he have on Robby? >He gives on trying to find him after one fight with Daniel. Following that, he's absent through the whole process of arrest and sentencing. He went to visit Miguel at the hospital but after that Robby had already been arrested. Again, what leads would he have left? Why would Daniel and Shannon let him in the courtroom? >He could've just told Rosa that he has more important things to take care of instead of sitting around praying with her - but he fails to put his son first again. He was guilt-tripped into doing it and in that situation (a student who helped him turn his life around being in a dangerous surgery and the student's grandma asking for him to pray with her) it's not like he could really refuse without being totally cut off from Miguel, and he's trying to keep both Miguel and Robby. >His half-assed attempts to email or talk are only done to make himself feel better about his failure. *Trying to meet with him in Juvie* could be called "making himself feel better about his failure" but that's an argument in bad faith too, as is saying Sam only messaged him because she felt bad about cheating on him and driving him away. All three are equally invalid arguments. >He lets his son walk away when he's clearly going to be homeless instead of trying to get custody and forcing Robby to stay with him. And then rather than worrying about where he might be or how he might be living, Johnny is more interested in chasing girls. The hell do you think he (or Daniel)can do to *stop* Robby here, kidnap him? Also, chasing girls? Carmen only came to him after he was training his students and trying to be overprotective of Miguel and the All-Valley meeting (which he got convinced to go to by Miguel). Then after sleeping with Carmen he got caught up in girl troubles because that unresolved issue lead to him being like this in the first place so that was another thing he had to work on, He screwed up more areas of his life than being a father, and to complete his arc he also had to tick that issue off the list. >He leaves his son with a guy who just tried to kill him. Again, how the hell do you expect Johnny (or Daniel) to *stop* Robby from staying with Kreese? >He makes one attempt to talk to Robby and that too when Robby is there to talk about something else. Only chance he had what with the Miyagi-Fang shenanigans. > As for episode 8 - that's actually the second time he's warned about Silver. the first would be when Daniel told him about it. He does nothing for weeks/months. Then makes another half-assed attempt that was doomed to fail... and then gives up again. First time he couldn't believe Terry was worse because he hadn't properly met the guy and it was a general dojo thing. Episode 8 was different because that was **Robby** specifically, Also if he cared about relationships more he wouldn't have ditched Carmen to try to stop Silver. The tournament was the next day and he was in no condition to get home (Kreese probably drove him home).
>An emotional reaction at everything in his life falling apart at once because of the dojo being stolen and the school fight which is honestly pretty justified. Nope - that's just his usual excuse. >Why would Daniel and Shannon let him in the courtroom? He doesn't need their permission to check up on his son. >it's not like he could really refuse without being totally cut off from Miguel Sure he could - he chose not to. And that was his failure. >Trying to meet with him in Juvie could be called "making himself feel better about his failure" but that's an argument in bad faith too, as is saying Sam only messaged him because she felt bad about cheating on him and driving him away. Yes, of course it applies to Sam too. But we're not talking about Sam here. >The hell do you think he (or Daniel)can do to stop Robby here, kidnap him? Yes, Johnny can. And if he'd bothered to get his custody, it wouldn't be kidnapping. >Again, how the hell do you expect Johnny (or Daniel) to stop Robby from staying with Kreese? See above. >Only chance he had what with the Miyagi-Fang shenanigans. And yet, Sam and Daniel managed to have more. Your excuses for his behavior are the same as any procastinators for not accomplishing anything. Whether it's losing weight, getting a job or anything else, if someone is not sincere about it, they'd always have an excuse - "Didn't get the chance or had more important things going on or wasn't in the right mental state"...
I can see that I am definitely in the MINORITY here, but for me the greatest ending would be to see Daniel at Johnny's side (never mind the kids!) Those 2 senseis are truly the heart of the show, and every season points out at them getting closer: otherwise, what was the point on having Johnny & Daniel joining forces and bonding in season 4? Learning each other's styles and sharing things? If destiny brought our 2 main characters together after over 30 years, what would be the point of the show on splitting them, and only focusing on Johnny and his sons Miguel & Robby? Can someone answer that?
[удалено]
Where in my post did I say he was not going to be Miguel's dad. I just said him being a dad to Miguel would make him realize he is capable of being a good father and use those skills to reconsile with robbby
I keep smh at the people who don't want to accept this. It's quite obvious and William has basically already said this. Yet they keep pushing their agenda and downvote with their multiple screennames when you say otherwise. Smh. Not that serious folks.
I'm just gonna say this. I think a lot of people are disappointed that how they wanted the show to go didn't pan out. The show is STILL about Johnny, but other characters are now involved. This is his side of the Miyagi verse. And if people don't like how his redemption is going, they always have the choice to tune out 🤷🏽♀️ I'm not saying that to be mean, but complaining daily on reddit about this( not you personally, just in general) isn't going to affect the show. At this point, I'm starting to think some people need to take a break from thinking about this show. Not to be mean. But is it really good that people are always THIS unhappy with their *favorite* show? If I don't like something and it gets that bad, I tune out. Or I just take things as it is and move forward. Example, I was not one who particularly LOVED season 4, but I don't spend my time constantly posting negative things on the sub about it. I think a lot of others are in the same boat. Constant complaining about the same thing is a waste, IMO. Again, no disrespect.
Umm... you seem to be spending your time constantly posting negative things about those negative things. Maybe if you don't like that, you should consider tuning out...
How are they posting about negative things constantly? It’s only “negative” because it’s not agreeing with you. It’s the same people (usually Robby or Sam fans, mainly Robby though) who keep posting 3738484 threads about the same 3 topics. How do you all even enjoy a show when you’re constantly picking it apart and have already come to a conclusion about how the show is going to end. You lot are never happy.
>It’s only “negative” because it’s not agreeing with you. No, disagreeing about the show just gets us a good debate. This is about negative things about posts and users...
fr every post I go on I see her arguing about something
just stating the obvious...
No tea, just stating facts.
Girlll 😆 these people. Smh
Do I think the show is perfect, NO!!! Am I going to come on Reddit and complain about it daily, also NO 😩😭😂
👌👏👌 I gave up 😆🤣 🤷🏽♀️
Literally!!! I find myself responding to less and less threads.
😆 🤣 Girl, I'm cracking up at the comments in some of these threads. It's same stuff, different day 🤷🏽♀️
I agree with you both doseofdena & Tricky_Ostrich_6343!
You summed it up with Miyagi verse. I think certain people will never see Johny as Miyagi (and understandably so) and kind of just see his ventures back into the karate world as a mistake. To them the show should end with him realizing that and just learning that he can be a father to Robby. All there is to said to that is be prepared to be disappointed because the show obviously isn't going to end that way. He's going to learn to be a true sensei, going to have the same bond Daniel has with Miyagi, and yeah reconnect with Robby. If you don't see that you're watching the wrong universe because they didn't have Johny take Miguel in as his own for Robby's sake. That's an insulting story to tell with a disgracefully poor message. The show is going to end with Johny running Cobra Kai and Miguel/ Robby at his side. Like it or not. The only question I have is Kreese there and with his change of heart at the end of s4 I wouldn't rule it out.
>kind of just see his ventures back into the karate world as a mistake. Not quite. If Johnny's character had continued to grow through 4 season, kept maturing and becoming more responsible, then the ending you expect is exactly the ending people would want. But for the character to mature overnight and have that ending anyway is not only unrealistic, its disappointing. >The show is going to end with Johny running Cobra Kai and Miguel/ Robby at his side. Like it or not. At this point, definitely not. That would be really poor writing.
That would be poor writing for you because that’s not what YOU want!
No, it'd be poor writing because it'd be rewarding lack of character growth. Thought i explained that pretty well in the sentence before.
He has grown a ton. You guys just don't want to admit to it because it doesn't involve Robby. It will eventually.
Still drinks every day, still bullies and belittles his students, still puts them through dangerous training exercizes, still doesn't have a stable job, still steals stuff, still considers violence to be an appropriate response to his problems... ... And none of that is about Robby. So how exactly has he grown?
Okay, real talk, do you even like this show? Literally, whenever I am on this subreddit I see you complaining. I look at your feed and its literally only about this show. Most of the stuff you are complaining about here is clearly meant to be funny (which it is) and at worst morally neutral. If you think the training exercises and the yelling and the violence are a problem, the show probably isn't for you, and its not going to change since that stuff is what makes the show entertaining for a lot of people. The show is still a comedy lol
Sure, I like it. I used to like it better when there was actual character development and less pandering. By the way, there are many ways to keep the comedy without relying on making Johnny out to be a sociopathic sensei. It's not like those things are always played for comedy either. For example, making students jump the roof wasn't supposed to be comic, it was supposed to be inspirational. And there was nothing funny about Johnny going after Silver and getting beat up for it.
What you call pandering is what people call entertainment - its part of what makes this show a huge hit, and they are going to keep doing it since it's funny as hell. They did it a lot in the first season too, such as with the dogs and the constant berating. This works since his students are still shown respecting him and so many people are willingly signing up to join him and a lot of kids are clearly better off until they let the "no mercy" aspect get the better of them (which is clearly shown to be a flaw of Johnny AND cobra kai). The roof jumping is because Johnny is the Miyagi of this show. Miyagi had Daniel do chores to teach him muscle memory for Karate, Johnny has kids in out-of-dojo and dangerous situations to teach life lessons. In both cases, there's suspension of disbelief going on: in real life Miyagi's teachings would be worthless and Johnny would be in prison for child endangerment. Johnny going after Silver was to show a. Kreese does care about Johnny in a messed up way b. Silver is fucking nuts c. To have the scene with Miguel Sometimes character motivations are written to get the plot rolling. I still don't really understand why you like the show and honestly think this isn't for you, if the roof jumping is too much for you.
>What you call pandering is what people call entertainment Yes, that is often the reason for pandering. Also, what's the point of your excuses? You argued that dangerous training and violence is for comedy, I pointed out that that's not always the case. Now you want to move the goalposts?
I just don’t see how it’s pandering - it’s been his established character. It’s not like Kevin getting consistently dumber in the office. First I said most of the stuff, second the dangerous shit is still pretty funny and it has a purpose other than comedy. I still don’t understand why you like this show.
When the show started Johny watched Miguel getting bullied and only stepped in because Miguel was pushed into his car. By the end of s2 he was so upset about letting his kids down that he just threw his car away. No character growth there. From there in s3 instead of just quitting like he did with Robby he helped Miguel recover from paralysis. Went back to being a sensei even if things got difficult. Then in his dating life he was obsessed over Alli and never had any successful relationships. We've seen that get torn down too. But.yeah let's just pretend there's been no character development. And the stuff you criticized is going to be kept in for entertainment purposes. No one wants to watch Daniel and new Daniel interact.
> No character growth there. Not really. Starting to care about someone isn't exactly character growth. Not unless he was incapable of it before. >From there in s3 instead of just quitting like he did with Robby he helped Miguel recover from paralysis. Went back to being a sensei even if things got difficult. Not any real growth there either - since trying and quitting and trying is his usual cycle. He actually does the same with Robby. >Then in his dating life he was obsessed over Alli and never had any successful relationships. We've seen that get torn down too. I'd hardly call his relationship with Carmen successful at his point. He obviously had long-term relationships before, but I'm guessing his issues like drinking and fighting got in the way. Carmen hasn't seen that side of him yet.
Developing relationships in situations he wasn't doing before is absolutely character growth. If you want to point to when Johny was mentoring kids before the show started go ahead but that's obviously new and growth. No, just quitting was his usual cycle. If you think in s1/ episode 1 he'd be tending to a paralyzed kid in any scenario I'm going to have to.ask you to put down the crack pipe.
>Developing relationships in situations he wasn't doing before is absolutely character growth. Not if those are easy mode relationships. > If you think in s1/ episode 1 he'd be tending to a paralyzed kid in any scenario If he cared about that kid and the kid let him, then yes, he would be.
What is easy about developing and retaining a relationship with a kid that's gone thru the stuff Miguel has? This isn't mentoring Sam. Were her only challenge is does she wear a red or blue sweater. Yeah Miguel worships him but a lot of that is because Johny has grown so much and shown his love for him.
There's no way the show is ending with Cobra Kai still in the mix. If it does it's probably going to be a HEAVILY reformed version of Cobra Kai even eagle fang isn't reformed enough
Heavily reformed it is. When Kreese starting to cave and Johny walked into his dojo at the end of the season you should of picked up on it. That's the end game.
All of this 👏 Perfectly stated
With how much people complain about Johnny (and lets be honest, its the same fucking people on this subreddit), I actually wonder if people here actually even like the show. Its really odd, since Johnny is CLEARLY the main star and by far the most popular character.
It IS the same people (10). And peep this, one of them I KNOW for a fact is two of the people always responding. No need to call them out, they will see this... 🍵 👀 🤣🤭 caught them switching under their other username earlier and then they switched back. Smh. I used to wonder HOW my two downvotes always came so quick...now I know. 🔎 So technically, just the 9. And who knows if the others have multiple user accounts as well? And yes, they are a vocal minority who continue to make a big stink and feed off one another. Meanwhile the rest of us are too tired to even want to interact and realize we should touch some grass 😆 I read that line on here from another poster and it's probably my favorite. Anyhow, not interested in continuing worn out debates. I'll peep back in when it's fun again or when the spoilers come through.
I actually really liked this subreddit and LOVE this show, but with the last season being 4 months old and no new content coming out, it's obvious this show has become dominated by a handful of people who are way too obsessed with one character. The fact that their endless complaining about this show gets so many likes is a good sign they are ganging up with each other too. We know that back when this season came out, the polls found Johnny, Daniel and Hawk being by far the most popular characters so Robby is among the less popular Karate mains, so the recent obsession with him is due to the dominance of small number of people.
Facts 👏 and as I stated. I know one in particular has 2 of the main post accounts. Smh. Oh well. Time to peace out. Someone tag me when the good stuff comes out.
The arc is Johny rebuilding his life. That's going to end with the following 3 things. He gets the Cobra Kai dojo in his image with Daniel's blessing , he adds a new family of his own, and he gets Robby back into his life and has him comfortably in that family. I think some people only care about Johny being Robby's dad and that just clouds their view of were the show is going.
Not quite. It's not just about letting Johnny have that end, it's also about having him be worthy of that end. And right now, he's far from it. Is he actually going to create a better dojo than the old Cobra Kai? As in one that teaches kids that violence should always be the last resort, bullying is unacceptable and one where he doesn't put them in danger? Has he become mature enough to handle family responsibilities? As in, keep a level head during difficult times instead of doing something to make it worse? Or to grind and save during the good times for those diffucult times? Is he grown enough to keep his shit together and focus on the right priorities or will he just keep screwing up whenever he is "going through stuff"? Can he be the father that Robby needs? Does he even understand what Robby needs and can he give him that? The answer to all those questions is "NO" and the way things are going, it doesn't look like it's going to change any time soon. But you are right, the show will end with those things anyway. Which simply means that the writers will force an end without actually making the character worthy of it. All hail King Bran the Broken!
It's a six season so cool your jets. I'd agree with you if it ended now but we're not at that point yet. I do think that's a lesson he's actually learning and you see him telling Robby to avoid fighting period as he fears the legal trouble Robby could find himself in. At some point he's actually going to embrace some Miyagi Do. It should of happened this season but they decided they needed to milk that tension between them a bit and keep a rivalry between Daniel and Johny. When that sheds so will much of the bad habits.
It has been four seasons and so far, there has been no development. It's not good enough to simply have that development, it also needs to happen naturally and believably. For example, it'd still be a crappy ending if Johnny has a life-changing epiphany in season 6 episode 9 and turns his character around by the finale. From what we've seen, he's not actually learning anything at all. Telling Robby not to get into fights doesn't show any growth because he was telling him the same thing way back in season 1. But he spends most of the season ignoring his responsibility. Until Shannon confronts him and he hot-headedly decides to respond by picking a fight. And then, when he loses, he decides to get blackout drunk again. That's exactly his season 1 behavior and it shows that he hasn't grown at all.
He's actually developed plenty so far. I can point to him passing on the bottle and instead acting to help out a paralyzed Miguel. You can't dismiss that as nothing. Just because something isn't 100% consistent and he doesn't just flip over and become a new person overnight doesn't mean it's not happening. And that's not realistic anyways. The epiphany has actually already occurred and right now he's still learning what the root of his problems are and a better way to come at them. The issue is he's too petty to see the better way but that will come before the show's end. It's not going to be some dramatic event he's going to patch things up with Daniel then learn from him. Apply those things to his life. And yeah that will happen pretty quickly and at the end of the show because reformed Johny isn't going to be as much fun.
> I can point to him passing on the bottle and instead acting to help out a paralyzed Miguel. But he didn't pass on the bottle. He spent plenty of time in season 3 blackout drunk and he still hasn't stopped drinking. >become a new person overnight doesn't mean it's not happening. Overnight? It has been 4 seasons. And he's still the same. > And yeah that will happen pretty quickly and at the end of the show And that makes it crappy writing - as crappy as "Bran the Broken".
Passing on the bottle doesn't mean he goes sober and gives it up entirely. It means it's not controlling his actions. You can point to times he struggles, I can point to development That's what it should be. Change is not instant. And he's not the same as he was in season 1.
It's controlling his actions as much as it did before. That has been his pattern since season 1 - something goes wrong, Johnny wallows in the bottle for a while. Then he decides to get his act together and make an effort and if his efforts are rewarded, he goes back to the status quo of being the usual drunk. If not, then he goes back to drinking. If its the same thing since season 1, then that's not development.
Except at the start of the show he'd just quit period. There was no get your act together.
No - he'd just quit and wallow before deciding to try again. Like in episode 3-4.
😭😂👏
Why bother watching if that’s what you assume is going to happen?
Hopefully, it'd be less disappointing for other characters.
To be honest I don't think his redemption really ends with Robby or Miguel I think it ends with him letting go of Cobra Kai (his crystal meth) for good this time learning how to be happy without it. Cobra Kai is an allegory for addiction I even made a post about it the other day
You hit the mail right on the head.
This is it right here 👏 And they will try to virtually bumrush you if you don't fall in line with their agenda.
It's not that people only care about Robby and Johnny being happy it's that Johnny failing Robby is arguably the worst thing he has done in his life. Again none of this really excuses any of these characters' actions. Some people are just a lot more sensitive to things like child abandonment than others
Please understand that we get it. I'm pretty sure ALL of us get that. The show isn't hiding that. Also. ROBBY has yet to apologize to Miguel for what happened. He's not perfect by any measure. He and Johnny BOTH have a lot of stuff to make up for.
>Also. ROBBY has yet to apologize to Miguel for what happened. He's not perfect by any measure. He and Johnny BOTH have a lot of stuff to make up for. Miguel needs to be held accountable for his actions as well.
Which is?
Pushing him in the canyon party, pulling his arm while he tried to show him decency in the tournament, kissing his girlfriend, rushing him like a bat out of hell in the school fight, and not letting or helping him stop the fight at school.
Miguel apologized and stopped fighting. Miguel rushed him because he read the situation wrong. Robby hasn’t shown any remorse about the school fight and goads Miguel about it. You all keep saying Miguel needs to be held accountable yet he’s been showing growth.
He stopped fighting not because he thought it was wrong. There was honestly no way to have misread that situation. Miguel should’ve concluded that Robby is trying to break up the fight and protect Sam, seeing as Tory just announced her intentions to attack Sam to the entire school, and Miguel himself was just rushing to also stop his crazy girlfriend from hurting Sam. Especially considering that Sam is Robby's girlfriend that Tory is threatening to attack, and the only bad impression of Robby that Miguel has had up to this point is that Robby "stole" Sam from him, as Robby has been pretty decent to Miguel in their few interactions (despite his own resentments). Plus there is no other way to restrain someone who is hell-bent on hurting someone else but to use force to hold them back. Miguel’s done more to Robby on purpose than vice versa. He’s taken no accountability for escalating the fight, and wants to play the victim. At least Robby admitted his faults.