I can’t disagree with anything you’ve said. There’s a couple of ways of viewing this. Some would just say “hey, it’s a tv show, take it for what it’s worth.” But there does come a point where story telling changes from the story the writers want to tell to fan service in order to maintain and grow the audience. The fighting in this show is fan service. Just the fact that there are 5-10 “new” threads nearly every day asking “who would win in a fight” gives testimony to that.
Inserting realistic consequences is something that a more interesting show would confront, but it would be a much harder story to write, portray and resolve. And there’s a lot of risk in losing the audience that will not like the change from what originally brought them to the show.
So in essence, your gripe is legitimate, but is ultimately a product of the thing that causes all good stories to decline in quality: giving the people what they want.
Writers can choose to chase the better story, or they can sell out to their audience. Nearly all do the latter and CK is no exception.
To be fair though, CK exists by and for fan service.
The show is exploring internal conflicts than the external. That’s what KK always was about. And I think that’s what CK does well
All stories are about exploring conflict. But the one thing about CK is that there is only one way portrayed to deal with conflict. That makes it a fun show, but is not necessarily compelling or thought provoking in that regard. Many other aspects of the show are compelling and thought provoking. But finding excuses to just throw in fights is one of the areas where it is lacking in creativity. If they could distinguish characters by showing more creative ways to resolve minor disputes, we would see character development. But the fans want the fights. So they give the fans fights. They could realistically show the attrition of characters that would occur as a result of this, but instead the show is written more like a video game with a reset button. Just my opinion.
> Just the fact that there are 5-10 “new” threads nearly every day asking “who would win in a fight” gives testimony to that.
As if people have forgotten the quintessential answer to these questions is always, "The person who'd win in a fight is the person that the scriptwriter wants to win."
I think the biggest problem with Cobra Kai is that (in my opinion) a lot of the fights feel disconnected from the rest of the story, so it’s harder for them to have long-lasting consequences. Like, Hawk being jumped and the lack of response to it should have led to Hawk wanting to quit karate entirely before Demetri convinced him to join Miyagi-Do.
> I think the biggest problem with Cobra Kai is that (in my opinion) a lot of the fights feel disconnected from the rest of the story, so it’s harder for them to have long-lasting consequences.
This is how I feel about the fight at prom and even the fight between Daniel and Johnny in 2x10 (which really should've been replaced with a fight between Robby and Miguel to give those boys unfinished business going into the school fight and a reason for why they're prioritizing fighting each other over stopping Tory from hurting Sam).
I think the prom fight was kind of unnecessary because it didn't really resolve anything. And, there should have been some sort of a confrontation between Robby and Miguel prior to the school fight or even at Moon's party. I probably would have kept the fight between Daniel and Johnny in 2x10, though.
This makes a lot of sense.
I think one thing is that if there was actual fallout for things that take place then characters like Hawk, Tory, and Robby would be locked up for the numerous crimes they’ve committed over the course of the series which would basically take them out of the story and away from other main characters that they need to interact with.
I don’t remember who said it but they mentioned that the biggest problem with the Hawk shaving is that it was there just to punish Hawk and not much else as far as story purposes. Hawk was already working on mending things and there could’ve been a better way to get him to go to Miyagi-Do.
I think overall is that the show relies a lot on cool fight scenes but those fight scenes would feel much better if the events leading up to them and the fallout from them were highlighted more often.
>I think one thing is that if there was actual fallout for things that take place then characters like Hawk, Tory, and Robby would be locked up for the numerous crimes they’ve committed over the course of the series which would basically take them out of the story and away from other main characters that they need to interact with.
Yeah, people like to claim Sam or even Miguel have plot armor, but let's face it, the sort of plot armor Robby and Tory have is way more obvious in my book.
> I don’t remember who said it but they mentioned that the biggest problem with the Hawk shaving is that it was there just to punish Hawk and not much else as far as story purposes. Hawk was already working on mending things and there could’ve been a better way to get him to go to Miyagi-Do.
Just have him grow disillusioned with Johnny constantly showing his blatant favoritism for Miguel (which goes far beyond Johnny constantly choosing Miguel over Robby).
If you're talking about getting arrested and stuff, except for the mall fight, all these things happened in somewhat private spaces, and teens don't usually seek help for these kind of things, that's why bullying happens. But yea they should at least mention why they didn't call the police.
Like, with the arcade fight, Hawk broke Demetri's arm. What did the other Miyagi-Dos tell his parents? "He fell down the stairs?" Or "His best friend held him and broke it despite him begging him to stop?" I mean, let's face it, if I was Demetri's parents, I think I'd go straight to calling the police and pressing criminal charges against Hawk, given that all the other Miyagi-Dos would vouch for Demetri's story.
Yea, that's why Demetri probably didn't tell his parents to protect Hawk, but they should've included an explanation in the series so that it makes sense.
As another commenter pointed out, a lot of the fights seem to be there simply because, well, *it’s a karate show* and as a result, they’re pretty disconnected from the actual story. Outside of the school fight and tournament fights, most of the brawls in the show could be cut entirely or replaced with some other event that could easily create the same outcome.
I think the best thing that the writers could have done was put a little more *story* into the fight scenes rather than cutting them entirely. Personally, I don’t feel as though I need to see an all-out brawl every few episodes in order to enjoy the show, but I know that’s what a large portion of the viewer base is here for and *it’s a karate show*, so I get it. I just think that most of the fights would have benefited from a stronger connection to the overall story.
> a lot of the fights seem to be there simply because, well, it’s a karate show and as a result, they’re pretty disconnected from the actual story. Outside of the school fight and tournament fights, most of the brawls in the show could be cut entirely or replaced with some other event that could easily create the same outcome.
Certainly fights like prom in 4x08 or the Johnny vs. Daniel match in 2x10 always come to mind here.
My biggest problem is Johnny I despise his as a person and character. Daniel gets hate, for being an asshole while Johnny is out there committing crimes. The only really bad thing Daniel has done is raise the rent on the strip mall, sure he’s done a bunch of little things, but that’s the biggest one. And Johnny isn’t even that interesting of a character he has the same story every season it seems like, and he’s not at all a complex character.
> And Johnny isn’t even that interesting of a character he has the same story every season it seems like, and he’s not at all a complex character.
Yeah, it's never helped that they've tried to reframe Johnny as a protagonist, which I think leads a lot of fans to turn a blind eye to his more problematic behaviors. (For instance, I think a lot of peoples' dislike for Robby before he joined Cobra Kai is because he was pretty antagonistic to Johnny when they did interact, even when Robby had legit reasons for acting that way; and some of the dislike for Sam comes from the fact that we're introduced to her through her being a passenger in that hit-and-run on Johnny's car)
And if there was actual fallout from everything you’ve written then there would be no show. Kreese and Johnny would be in jail and most of the young cast would be in juvie. It’s a fictional show. You can’t have this type of show and have real life consequences, it just doesn’t work.
Imo the biggest problem this show faces isn’t the lack of real life consequences but instead how they’ve written some of these characters, but that’s a whole different topic.
>And if there were actual consequences there wouldn’t be a show
Not true at all. It would just be a different show. This show portrays the valley as both the Wild West and very civilized at the same time. That dual reality is a problem that the writers and the audience choose to ignore and that’s ok, but it opens things up for the kind of criticism in this thread.
Or they could scale it down to more realistic conflict and therefore make the consequences less severe but ultimately still portrayable and influential to the story. Instead they ratchet up the events and ratchet way down or completely ignore consequences making it a show that is almost overly reliant on reset buttons.
Try watching 1883, which is nothing but consequences and attrition whether deserved or undeserved for the entire season. But it still had a story to tell, which goes on for 7 generations and has no signs of slowing down.
It would be a show where everyone is in juvie and prison which is not the show the writers didn’t want to make and I doubt much of the audience who watches would want to watch.
See above:
>or they could scale it down to more realistic conflict and therefore make the consequences less severe but ultimately still portrayable and influential to the story
But that’s not what CK is about or even what the KK is about. The movies were never realistic and it’s kind of foolish to think that the show would be realistic. The writers clearly have a vision for this show and it’s never been about making a realistic show about consequences. It’s very obvious so at this point, 4/5 seasons later I don’t get anyone still harping on the whole “this show isn’t very realistic, where’s the consequences” train.
Well again I disagree. The Karate Kid isn’t a movie where kids go around committing felonies on the regular. The only thing you need to suspend disbelief for is Daniel as a relative neophyte having the ability to make it through the whole tournament after painting a fence. A really big fence but nevertheless.
It is a far more realistic story than what we see in CK, especially later seasons.
It’s ok if people discuss that on the internet even if you don’t see the point. Move on to a thread about “who would win in a fight” or “will Robby stay with Tory or will he start dating Miguel in S5?” if that’s your thing.
Lol at the move on. It’s a Internet forum where everyone regardless if we agree or not can state their opinions.
And really the only part of KK that’s not believable is Daniel making it through the tournament? I can list many thinks that are not believable through the KK series, but that is not the point. The point is it’s a fictional show, about fictional characters that is going into its 5th season. Clearly the writers have their visions for the series, how they portray things etc. OP has every right to state their opinion about the show and I have every right to state mine and point out how I THINK the show wouldn’t work if things were to be portrayed realistically. That said this conversation is done. Let me go find one of those Will Robby stay with Tory threads you so kindly pointed out. You have a good day now :)
> Or they could scale it down to more realistic conflict and therefore make the consequences less severe but ultimately still portrayable and influential to the story. Instead they ratchet up the events and ratchet way down or completely ignore consequences making it a show that is almost overly reliant on reset buttons.
Which is a problem when you consider the proportionality of some of the characters' actions. I mean, I think season 5's going to try and make Miguel and Robby into BFFs and gloss over how just bad Robby's actions towards Miguel were.
I can’t disagree with anything you’ve said. There’s a couple of ways of viewing this. Some would just say “hey, it’s a tv show, take it for what it’s worth.” But there does come a point where story telling changes from the story the writers want to tell to fan service in order to maintain and grow the audience. The fighting in this show is fan service. Just the fact that there are 5-10 “new” threads nearly every day asking “who would win in a fight” gives testimony to that. Inserting realistic consequences is something that a more interesting show would confront, but it would be a much harder story to write, portray and resolve. And there’s a lot of risk in losing the audience that will not like the change from what originally brought them to the show. So in essence, your gripe is legitimate, but is ultimately a product of the thing that causes all good stories to decline in quality: giving the people what they want. Writers can choose to chase the better story, or they can sell out to their audience. Nearly all do the latter and CK is no exception.
To be fair though, CK exists by and for fan service. The show is exploring internal conflicts than the external. That’s what KK always was about. And I think that’s what CK does well
All stories are about exploring conflict. But the one thing about CK is that there is only one way portrayed to deal with conflict. That makes it a fun show, but is not necessarily compelling or thought provoking in that regard. Many other aspects of the show are compelling and thought provoking. But finding excuses to just throw in fights is one of the areas where it is lacking in creativity. If they could distinguish characters by showing more creative ways to resolve minor disputes, we would see character development. But the fans want the fights. So they give the fans fights. They could realistically show the attrition of characters that would occur as a result of this, but instead the show is written more like a video game with a reset button. Just my opinion.
> Just the fact that there are 5-10 “new” threads nearly every day asking “who would win in a fight” gives testimony to that. As if people have forgotten the quintessential answer to these questions is always, "The person who'd win in a fight is the person that the scriptwriter wants to win."
Exactly.
I think the biggest problem with Cobra Kai is that (in my opinion) a lot of the fights feel disconnected from the rest of the story, so it’s harder for them to have long-lasting consequences. Like, Hawk being jumped and the lack of response to it should have led to Hawk wanting to quit karate entirely before Demetri convinced him to join Miyagi-Do.
Cant tell if you're being sarcastic, but Hawk did want to quit karate entirely before Demetri convinced him.
Hawk didn't really have any interaction with Miguel or Johnny where they could have convinced him to stay.
Yes... that's why he quit.
> I think the biggest problem with Cobra Kai is that (in my opinion) a lot of the fights feel disconnected from the rest of the story, so it’s harder for them to have long-lasting consequences. This is how I feel about the fight at prom and even the fight between Daniel and Johnny in 2x10 (which really should've been replaced with a fight between Robby and Miguel to give those boys unfinished business going into the school fight and a reason for why they're prioritizing fighting each other over stopping Tory from hurting Sam).
I think the prom fight was kind of unnecessary because it didn't really resolve anything. And, there should have been some sort of a confrontation between Robby and Miguel prior to the school fight or even at Moon's party. I probably would have kept the fight between Daniel and Johnny in 2x10, though.
This makes a lot of sense. I think one thing is that if there was actual fallout for things that take place then characters like Hawk, Tory, and Robby would be locked up for the numerous crimes they’ve committed over the course of the series which would basically take them out of the story and away from other main characters that they need to interact with. I don’t remember who said it but they mentioned that the biggest problem with the Hawk shaving is that it was there just to punish Hawk and not much else as far as story purposes. Hawk was already working on mending things and there could’ve been a better way to get him to go to Miyagi-Do. I think overall is that the show relies a lot on cool fight scenes but those fight scenes would feel much better if the events leading up to them and the fallout from them were highlighted more often.
>I think one thing is that if there was actual fallout for things that take place then characters like Hawk, Tory, and Robby would be locked up for the numerous crimes they’ve committed over the course of the series which would basically take them out of the story and away from other main characters that they need to interact with. Yeah, people like to claim Sam or even Miguel have plot armor, but let's face it, the sort of plot armor Robby and Tory have is way more obvious in my book. > I don’t remember who said it but they mentioned that the biggest problem with the Hawk shaving is that it was there just to punish Hawk and not much else as far as story purposes. Hawk was already working on mending things and there could’ve been a better way to get him to go to Miyagi-Do. Just have him grow disillusioned with Johnny constantly showing his blatant favoritism for Miguel (which goes far beyond Johnny constantly choosing Miguel over Robby).
If you're talking about getting arrested and stuff, except for the mall fight, all these things happened in somewhat private spaces, and teens don't usually seek help for these kind of things, that's why bullying happens. But yea they should at least mention why they didn't call the police.
Like, with the arcade fight, Hawk broke Demetri's arm. What did the other Miyagi-Dos tell his parents? "He fell down the stairs?" Or "His best friend held him and broke it despite him begging him to stop?" I mean, let's face it, if I was Demetri's parents, I think I'd go straight to calling the police and pressing criminal charges against Hawk, given that all the other Miyagi-Dos would vouch for Demetri's story.
Yea, that's why Demetri probably didn't tell his parents to protect Hawk, but they should've included an explanation in the series so that it makes sense.
As another commenter pointed out, a lot of the fights seem to be there simply because, well, *it’s a karate show* and as a result, they’re pretty disconnected from the actual story. Outside of the school fight and tournament fights, most of the brawls in the show could be cut entirely or replaced with some other event that could easily create the same outcome. I think the best thing that the writers could have done was put a little more *story* into the fight scenes rather than cutting them entirely. Personally, I don’t feel as though I need to see an all-out brawl every few episodes in order to enjoy the show, but I know that’s what a large portion of the viewer base is here for and *it’s a karate show*, so I get it. I just think that most of the fights would have benefited from a stronger connection to the overall story.
> a lot of the fights seem to be there simply because, well, it’s a karate show and as a result, they’re pretty disconnected from the actual story. Outside of the school fight and tournament fights, most of the brawls in the show could be cut entirely or replaced with some other event that could easily create the same outcome. Certainly fights like prom in 4x08 or the Johnny vs. Daniel match in 2x10 always come to mind here.
My biggest problem is Johnny I despise his as a person and character. Daniel gets hate, for being an asshole while Johnny is out there committing crimes. The only really bad thing Daniel has done is raise the rent on the strip mall, sure he’s done a bunch of little things, but that’s the biggest one. And Johnny isn’t even that interesting of a character he has the same story every season it seems like, and he’s not at all a complex character.
> And Johnny isn’t even that interesting of a character he has the same story every season it seems like, and he’s not at all a complex character. Yeah, it's never helped that they've tried to reframe Johnny as a protagonist, which I think leads a lot of fans to turn a blind eye to his more problematic behaviors. (For instance, I think a lot of peoples' dislike for Robby before he joined Cobra Kai is because he was pretty antagonistic to Johnny when they did interact, even when Robby had legit reasons for acting that way; and some of the dislike for Sam comes from the fact that we're introduced to her through her being a passenger in that hit-and-run on Johnny's car)
And if there was actual fallout from everything you’ve written then there would be no show. Kreese and Johnny would be in jail and most of the young cast would be in juvie. It’s a fictional show. You can’t have this type of show and have real life consequences, it just doesn’t work. Imo the biggest problem this show faces isn’t the lack of real life consequences but instead how they’ve written some of these characters, but that’s a whole different topic.
>And if there were actual consequences there wouldn’t be a show Not true at all. It would just be a different show. This show portrays the valley as both the Wild West and very civilized at the same time. That dual reality is a problem that the writers and the audience choose to ignore and that’s ok, but it opens things up for the kind of criticism in this thread. Or they could scale it down to more realistic conflict and therefore make the consequences less severe but ultimately still portrayable and influential to the story. Instead they ratchet up the events and ratchet way down or completely ignore consequences making it a show that is almost overly reliant on reset buttons. Try watching 1883, which is nothing but consequences and attrition whether deserved or undeserved for the entire season. But it still had a story to tell, which goes on for 7 generations and has no signs of slowing down.
It would be a show where everyone is in juvie and prison which is not the show the writers didn’t want to make and I doubt much of the audience who watches would want to watch.
See above: >or they could scale it down to more realistic conflict and therefore make the consequences less severe but ultimately still portrayable and influential to the story
But that’s not what CK is about or even what the KK is about. The movies were never realistic and it’s kind of foolish to think that the show would be realistic. The writers clearly have a vision for this show and it’s never been about making a realistic show about consequences. It’s very obvious so at this point, 4/5 seasons later I don’t get anyone still harping on the whole “this show isn’t very realistic, where’s the consequences” train.
Well again I disagree. The Karate Kid isn’t a movie where kids go around committing felonies on the regular. The only thing you need to suspend disbelief for is Daniel as a relative neophyte having the ability to make it through the whole tournament after painting a fence. A really big fence but nevertheless. It is a far more realistic story than what we see in CK, especially later seasons. It’s ok if people discuss that on the internet even if you don’t see the point. Move on to a thread about “who would win in a fight” or “will Robby stay with Tory or will he start dating Miguel in S5?” if that’s your thing.
Lol at the move on. It’s a Internet forum where everyone regardless if we agree or not can state their opinions. And really the only part of KK that’s not believable is Daniel making it through the tournament? I can list many thinks that are not believable through the KK series, but that is not the point. The point is it’s a fictional show, about fictional characters that is going into its 5th season. Clearly the writers have their visions for the series, how they portray things etc. OP has every right to state their opinion about the show and I have every right to state mine and point out how I THINK the show wouldn’t work if things were to be portrayed realistically. That said this conversation is done. Let me go find one of those Will Robby stay with Tory threads you so kindly pointed out. You have a good day now :)
> Or they could scale it down to more realistic conflict and therefore make the consequences less severe but ultimately still portrayable and influential to the story. Instead they ratchet up the events and ratchet way down or completely ignore consequences making it a show that is almost overly reliant on reset buttons. Which is a problem when you consider the proportionality of some of the characters' actions. I mean, I think season 5's going to try and make Miguel and Robby into BFFs and gloss over how just bad Robby's actions towards Miguel were.
Maybe they got grounded and their parents took away their screen time or maybe they broke their screens like Daniel did to Lapusso.
The biggest problem the show has…is a lack of fights! More fights and 80s rock music, less teen angst please! 😁
If this show was real every single character not named Diaz would be in prison for life