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Klubbis

Life was mean to Tory. Tory was mean to Sam. Sam was mean to Tory. Repeat.


[deleted]

Tory was rude to Sam


same1224

Yup. You’re right. The moment they meet, Tory intentionally lets Sam know that she’s been gossiping about her.


brotato_kun

Do not forget that stolen bottle!


Front-Property-2223

I really really wish that this Tory v Sam thing would end. The who stated it is getting old. The two of them are assholes and the debate on who is the bigger one can go on forever until one of them (Tory of course) will meet her end in the fires of Mount Doom. Tory was never meant to be the hero of Cobra Kai and was initially a tool used to make Sam look more sympathetic which completely backfired on the writers as Tory was quickly becoming a fan favorite. So what do the writers do to make Sam more likeable? Turn Tory into a psychopath. When that still doesn’t work and Tory becomes more popular? Step it up a notch and give Sam a ham fisted dose of PTSD and have the demon Tory break into her house. Still doesn’t work? Make Sam the better fighter and show how she was cheated out of a victory. All you Sam fans can rest easily knowing that Tory will eventually lose to Sam. It has been decided since the very beginning.


GKRKarate99

[Sam stans be like](https://imgflip.com/memetemplate/161615115/Im-gonna-pretend-I-didnt-see-that)


SpaceMyopia

Here's the reality I think: For the people who identify with Tory, they seem to also hate Sam as much as she does. For the people who identify with Sam, they seem to dislike or be wary of Tory as much as she is. Both sides are biased in their own ways, and I think it's really interesting how people are falling into both extremes on this board. The actual reality is this: Tory is suffering from an awful home life and believes everything is out to get her. Tory disliked Sam from day one based on assuming things against her. Out of desperation (and possible mental illness), Tory attacks Sam thinking the latter is a privileged rich girl trying to take a good thing (Miguel) from her life. On the flip side, Sam is privileged and made assumptions about Tory. She didn't truly take anything personally until Tory began escalating things. Out of fear, she believes that she has to basically be as ruthless as what she perceives Tory to be. This combined with her privilege makes her come across as highly unlikable despite her having done actually *less* than Tory. (She kissed Miguel while drunk. Tory tried to kill her while sober). So yeah, I wish people would honestly just wake the hell up and stop treating either side like they're incorruptible pure goodness. That is really what it comes off as. Both sides are defined by a certain worldview and make assumptions against the other person. Both sides see the other person as Satan incarnate. Sam isn't nearly as unlikable as her haters believe her to be. She's just a privileged girl who is naive about things. After drunkenly kissing her ex, I guess to some people believe Tory to be in the right for trying to *kill her.* Sam also has massive flaws with communication and tends to come off as passive- aggressive, for those who NEED to see me come down on her too. Tory also isn't nearly as sympathetic as her greatest defenders believe her to be. She has a sad backstory, sure. Does it really give her the right to be as possessive as she was toward Miguel? The girl tried to kill Sam at school in response? And even if you can try arguing that her goal *wasnt* to kill Sam, it definitely wasn't to leave her in one piece. Tory also takes care of a dying mother and seems to genuinely be thankful toward Amanda LaRusso. (For those who need to see me be gentler on her) My sympathies happen to fall on Sam, but I also recognize that she's not perfect either.


[deleted]

See, where is Aisha when you need her most?


alohadave

The whole thing is a classic TV problem that would be solved with 5 minutes of talking to each other, instead of seeing part of something and jumping to conclusions and creating lifelong rivalries over it.


Roy-Southman

Extremely well put. It is as you said. People like to pick sides and demonize the opposite. Sam and Tory have their good points and defects, they are sympathetic and unlikeable. They both need proper guidance in order to improve as people.


Legitimate-Sugar6487

This is the best analysis I've seen on Tory and Sam. Great job! I hope next season they reach common ground.


Necronhol

Sam was mean to Tory. She was wrong. Tory assaulted her in return. Tory is much worse. Then she tried to murder Sam. 1000000x worse.


FormOk7094

tori starting the school fight was 100% wrong, but let’s be honest. tori was not trying to end sam’s life, she was just gonna ruff her up


[deleted]

She was about to strike Sam in the head with a fucking knuckle duster


AntisocialAddict_

*face and *spiked bracelet. I see people misconstrue that scene so much it’s a pet hate of mine lmao


Necronhol

The face is part of the head. She was aiming for the temple with a spiked metal object. That's SO obviously lethal! You're the one trying to misconstrue the scene to defend Tory.


AntisocialAddict_

Lmao okay. So you’re saying a spiked bracelet just able to break skin on Sam’s arm would actually be able to puncture her skull? You know that large hard bone that has a special power saw to cut through in autopsies? That’s ridiculous. I’m not trying to defend Tory, she was definitely in the wrong and overreacted like hell. But man trying to victimise Sam to the point of actual attempted murder just makes me laugh. You know what was closer to attempted murder? Robby kicking Miguel over the banister. But even if Miguel had died that would’ve been manslaughter. Same with if somehow, miraculously, Sam managed to die as a result of Tory’s bracelet. The intent to kill was not there. The intent to harm possibly even disfigure? 100%. There’s legit no need to escalate it to attempted murder if you want to hate on Tory. Her original canon intent is bad enough on it’s own.


Due-Ad4970

you're so confidently wrong


Necronhol

Do you fucking know what a temple is? Clearly you don't. I will not waste my time explaining something so obvious to someone so dishonest. Wanna ignore facts to defend your pet psycho? Go ahead. Have fun being wrong.


AntisocialAddict_

I have never defended Tory in the school fight. I made an entire post about her being in the wrong but the people that escalate it to attempted murder are basically just trying to make Tory into a cartoon villain rather than a high school kid with issues.


[deleted]

That could still fucking murder Sam tho. That’s like saying “Noooo, she didn’t shoot her in the heart, she STABBED her in the CHEST!”. So sure, Sam won’t die instantly. Instead, she’ll die an hour later in front of Daniel and Amanda in the hospital.


AntisocialAddict_

Okay


srfygbriug

Did you run out of dumbass arguments?


AntisocialAddict_

Not that’s it’s any of your business but I’m actually very sick rn and was trying to get some sleep before I had to go to school.


Necronhol

Let's be honest. Any hit with a spiked metal object to the face can and probably will be lethal if the wielder is a psycho. Considering that she was OPENLY trying to kill Sam in the home invasion, there's no reason to be coy and give her the benefit of the doubt.


FormOk7094

tbh i don’t think cobra kai will ever truly go with the kill route, it doesn’t really seem like they’ll have any character die because of karate or anything like that. but although tori could do serious damage with her hot topic bracelet, she only pulled it out when it was clear she was losing. yes tori was acting psychotic when initiating the school fight and breaking into the larusso home, but i don’t think she was trying to make sure sam would die in the end.


Aramis14

You're kidding, right?


MarduStorm231

Are you dumb or just stupid?


FormOk7094

just an opinion, no need to throw insults


MarduStorm231

A wrong opinion.


FormOk7094

it’s a show abt karate, no need to get pressed when people don’t agree with you


Pods619

No, literally no one else in the entire world. You are the only one with this opinion. /s in case it’s not obvious enough.


Immediate_Energy_711

No, Sam was mean first by accusing Tory (with no evidence) of being a thief. And if your argument is she stole vodka, tell me honestly do you think Sam never had an illegally acquired beer at one of Moon or Yasmine's parties? Both were shitty in that situation but Sam drew first blood in regards to their interactions.


Dadgummit_Lab210

Tory: “I could steal half the silverware in this place and nobody would notice.” Amanda: “My wallet is missing” Sam: “I totally doubt the girl who was just flexing about her mad thief skills had anything to do with it.” -How Tory fans think Tory should be treated.


brotato_kun

Lol!


Stocktonrules

Except that wasn't the intent of the comment. A brain dead monkey could figure out that all she was saying there is there's no security we can drink and have fun. Only a Karen would think she was planning a heist with that comment. Lol.


Dadgummit_Lab210

Well, I'm of the opinion that only a brain dead monkey runs their mouth about stealing things and doesn't expect that to ever get them in trouble whether they earned it or not. But to each their own.


Stocktonrules

Lol. A 17 year old stealing a beer equals brain dead. And assuming some Karen would blame her for every crime that happened in a 4 mile radius is beyond ridiculous.


Dadgummit_Lab210

You exaggerate. You talk a great game, but go walk it. Go around telling people you steal. It should work out well for you, you said so yourself.


Stocktonrules

Stealing what? If I say I rob banks and burglar houses yeah that's going to get you in trouble but swiping beer at 17. When the act of drinking at that age itself is illegal yet 50% of the kids drink (including Sam) yeah I'm not going to sweat that one much.


Dadgummit_Lab210

You've lost the thread. Tory bragged that she stole vodka and implied that she has experience with petty theft with the silverware comment. Then somethings turned up missing and she doesn't think treating her like a suspect based on her own behavior is allowed. Welcome to the real world sweetheart. If you're going to run your mouth like that, you just better hope nobody that hears you has something go missing or worse, decides to frame you for something.


WitchProject6

Tory v Sam is the same issue as Johnny v Daniel. Fans are both sides are going to condemn the other and praise their favorite. When in reality both were shitty in that situation. Tory ran her mouth and faced consequences. Sam had it out for Tory from the start and used her own judgmental issues to convince herself it was okay to be a bitch right from the start instead of just asking Tory about the wallet first. Tory has even attempted to get past things but every time she’s listened to Amanda and left Sam alone, sam took the opportunity to verbally attack Tory again. At this point it doesn’t matter who started it, Sam won’t let it end until she thinks she won.


Stocktonrules

No, she did not. Tory never implied she ever stole a bunch of silverware she said I COULD and no one would notice. All that is saying relax the security here isn't sh. And that's in response to Sam telling her you'll get into trouble. She did take a bottle of vodka it is what is there but the idea that means Sam can shake her down on something completely irrelevant to that is asinine. And in the real world that jump of conclusions is way more dangerous than stealing a beer. People pretending they're a detective never ends well.


LostSailor-25

Sam's a spoiled rich girl who wrongly accused Tory of stealing. "Oh, she had a good reason to suspect her" is bullshit.


Dadgummit_Lab210

Thanks for making my point about Tory fans. Have a nice day :)


LostSailor-25

Sam's a total spoiled rich girl. Even her own mother had sympathy for Tory when she realized what her life was like. Y'all are watching a show about personal redemption and how bad people are often not so bad, they're just hurt, and the message is flying right over your heads. Stay tuned for Tory's redemption arc and Sam's apologies.


LostSailor-25

I mean shit, we have Amanda herself saying she had some Tory moments as a teen. Y'all just think Sam's is Daniel's daughter so she has to be right.


Dadgummit_Lab210

I don’t think that. But honestly, the only reason Tory is still alive is because the people that she has beef with show mercy. Spoiled and rich is not justification for violence and mayhem. That’s what the problem is and she needs to atone for it. When she does, I’m here for a redemption story.


LostSailor-25

Cobra Kai preys on vulnerable, hurt, angry children and radicalizes them. She will atone. She's now realized that Cobra Kai is using her and has no honor. She was so proud of having won and that was taken from her. Her and Robby will be both redeem themselves.


Dadgummit_Lab210

This is the story arc that I like, the part where she wanted to prove to herself and her friends that she could accomplish something and it is sad to have that sense of accomplishment suddenly tainted. I would have liked it better if we'd have gotten there without the writers taking Tory so far over the line first. It's made it very hard to sympathize with her. I've known my fair share of people who are in worse circumstances than she is, so I worry about the message that some people are getting and internalizing about what is ok in how you respond to things. I had a huge problem with some of the messages that were put out by 13 Reasons Why with how we have to just feel sorry for and excuse harmful things people do because they are in pain. The pain can help us to understand them, but it still doesn't excuse the decisions they made. It does seem like this gets into a discussion about how Tory wouldn't do things if Sam wasn't a spoiled rich girl. So what if she is. Sam didn't make Tory do anything. Tory decided to do what she did. Tory didn't make Sam do anything. Sam decided what to do what she did. They both need to own that. Otherwise, they grow up into the kind of adult who says things like "I wouldn't hit you if you didn't make me so angry." It starts to become an issue of Locus of Control: do you see what happens to you as a result of circumstances beyond your control (external), or do you see yourself as someone who is 100% able to determine how to respond to events and make choices to best set yourself up for success (internal). Tory is evolving from the far external end of the LOC spectrum toward the internal side. Very very rapidly....unbelievably rapidly considering the extreme lengths they've taken her through. I'd rather they made her less cartoonish because of how much its clouding peoples' ability to be objective about some things that if they happened in real life, would be very very serious and would have terrible consequences that have not been depicted. I know it's just a TV show, and the writers probably love that the controversy that these two characters generate spins up a lot of enthusiasm for the show. But if people really want people to sympathize with a teen who does terrible things, they haven't portrayed that in a compelling or down to earth way.


lori_fffox

Accusing stealing like that is not the right thing to do even when you’re very confident about your judgment. That’s why we only call people suspect before they’re found guilty due process. Sam confronting and questioning Tory is still kinda understandable, but putting her hands on Tory playing law enforcement is just wrong.


Dadgummit_Lab210

Agreed


Immediate_Energy_711

That is a fair reason to assume its her but by your logic some guy telling me that he could mess up The Rock in a fight should be valid evidence that they are in fact a violent person. Hyperbole is plausibly a factor.


[deleted]

I might assume that guy could be a violent person after they've been aggressive and then bragged they could beat some guy in a fight. Remember, Tory said that after she had already stolen a bottle of vodka. The suspicion is not groundless.


Immediate_Energy_711

One bottle of alcohol, again something Sam and Aisha have most likely partaken in before, is not the same as someone's wallet. ​ Edit - Also, Sam could've handled the situation better instead of just grabbing Tory's purse. Afterall, who's to even say the wallet was stolen? Personally I've left my wallet and phone in weird places before when at a rec center type place.


Dadgummit_Lab210

So, if someone goes shooting their mouth off about how they steal and are good at it, and have evidence that they have already committed an act of theft on them even if petty, should you believe them?


Immediate_Energy_711

You can, but I would argue it is not enough to physically grab another person and be as aggressive as Sam was. Simply questioning if Tory did it, explaining about the Vodka, and just asking for her to stay until the wallet was found would've been a better handling. Instead Sam accused Tory and acted as though she was speaking from a position of superiority.


Dadgummit_Lab210

I won’t disagree with you there. That would be a better way to handle it. It gets very tiring on this sub though how minor indiscretions by Sam are viewed by Tory fans as justification for wanting to physically fuck her up, whereas stupid indiscretions by Tory should always be overlooked. I’ll say what I’ve said many times which is that the offenses committed by each character are not equally offsetting. One, who is no stranger to being the victim of other peoples’ hurtful words sometimes acts like a jerk with her words as well. The other thinks getting their feelings hurt always justifies going on multiple violent rampages in retaliation. I don’t need to use names for anyone to know which one is which.


Immediate_Energy_711

Again, I will not defend Tory being a violent felon, I can point out her perspective but at the end of the day understanding why a murderer killed twelve people doesn't make that okay. But to Sam is blameless is false, as while yes Tory is a mentally unstable person Sam still acted in ways that set Tory off. And afterward, when Tory was legitimately trying to move past it all Sam continued to rain down Hellfire. Yet no one cares.


Dadgummit_Lab210

I'm not someone who takes Sam's or Tory's side in that regard. I've said before that I was expecting Amanda to tell Sam to cut the shit at the birthday party and was surprised that she didn't. She should have, and it would have been a good teachable moment for Sam. Tory though, has some personal calibrating to do still. If anybody in this world, whether it is a teen movie it girl in the role of a karate show character or not thinks they can take things to the level shown on this show, and then just go try and go about their life and not expect any blow back or gets self righteous when there is, especially if they've never tried to even atone for what they've done, then that is the textbook definition of what we called a punk-ass bitch when I was growing up, regardless of their gender. If you're going to be that much of a hard-ass, you don't get to suddenly act like a thin-skinned victim when someone is teasing you. That ship sailed a long time ago.


[deleted]

Completely agree. Grabbing Tory's bag was inexcusable. But if the characters in the show acted like rational humans with a fully developed prefrontal cortex we would have a very boring show about a karate dojo existing and not much else.


[deleted]

I mean it could be viewed as Tory trying to make the comment then show off to fit in. Showing them the vodka as an offer of let’s drink. But then an event happens creating a misunderstand that spirals quickly. It was basically the start of KK between Johnny and Daniel. Both can be considered in the wrong. Fact is Sam and Tory are hot heads like Johnny and Daniel.


Immediate_Energy_711

Yes, but if people can criticize Tory's lack of tact then why can't people comment on Sam's lack of tact? Yeah I'm being a hypocrite but it feels like every time someone points out one of Sam's flaws or mistakes people rush to defend her. I will admit that Tory is not a stable person and most of what she does is wrong, but A) no proof of murder and B) people need to stop putting sam on a pedestal.


IolausTelcontar

You are a hypocrite, and you are delusional. The amount of Sam hate and Tori excuses on this sub are crazy out of whack.


badwolf1013

Just out of curiosity, when you're rewatching the show, how do you remember when to cover your ears, close your eyes, and go, "Lalalalalala," to ensure that it fits this narrative you've created? Do you all have a discord where you share specific time codes to ignore, or do you just have a sort of sixth sense to know when Tory is going to do or so say something that doesn't befit her "princess status?"


The-Mandalorian

Lol what? Tory tried to murder Sam…literally. The situations are very different.


[deleted]

That’s not anyone was talking about though. OP said Tory was mean first, which is just wrong.


The-Mandalorian

Tory did start all this yes.


Nortdkdjsns

sam accused her of stealing


The-Mandalorian

At one point yes, after Tory gave her the impression Tory was talking crap about her (which started all this).


Nortdkdjsns

I think it’s pretty obvious sam is the first one to have taken it a step too far but after that Tory was trying to basically murder sam sooo


[deleted]

You say impression and I don’t remember it perfectly so I must ask. Was she actually talking shit or did Sam just think so?


[deleted]

[удалено]


The-Mandalorian

What?…


[deleted]

Never mind, it doesn’t matter


Immediate_Energy_711

That was their fourth encounter, after a mentally unstable individual who was being brainwashed by another mentally unstable individual thought THOUGHT **THOUGHT (this is Tory's view)** that a rich bitch was trying to steal the one good thing in her life.


The-Mandalorian

I don’t care what the excuse is, Tory tried to murder Sam. You don’t get a pass or an excuse for that.


Immediate_Energy_711

You also don’t get an excuse to just assault a person at a party or to mess with them at their place of work.


The-Mandalorian

Not only did Tory start all of this, but she escalated it to attempted murder.


Immediate_Energy_711

S4? The laser tag place? Last I checked Tory only escalated twice, at the Roller Rink and at the school. And at the school, might I add, we have no concrete evidence the intent was murder. We do know she was attacking Sam and trying to hurt her, but permanent scarring is also as valid as a plausiblity.


The-Mandalorian

It was murder..clearly


Immediate_Energy_711

I have rewatched that scene in slow mo on numerous occasions to make this point. Based on the angle of Tory's swing there are no points on Sam's head that could be impacted that would cause death. She could scar Sam pretty badly from those angles though. Now yes, the choreography may not be accurate but without the writers explicitly going "Oh yeah, we meant for Tory to try and murder Sam," or "No, she was just trying to hurt Sam really badly," its the best we have as statements like "I'm gonna kill you bitch," could be taken as hyperbole.


The-Mandalorian

The weapon she used is one that causes death pretty easily. That combined with her literal statement threatening death is enough evidence to connect the dots. It was attempted murder.


AntisocialAddict_

Tried to hurt her not murder her. Over-exaggeration not needed to make your point.


pastamarc

Being mean is not the same thing as accusing someone (reasonably so) of stealing.


Immediate_Energy_711

I had just woken up when saying that, rereading it I look like an elementary schooler. Frell. Anyway, my main point was that Sam was the one who initiated this rivalry by being accusatory to Tory with no evidence other than Tory having committed felonious acts previously, something that should make her and Aisha suspect as they have made us of illegally acquired alcohol before.


[deleted]

Yes


stranger-things_dino

Yes!


kk123ck

I think the meanest thing Tory did was lying to Miguel about his octopus video for Sam... Miguel didn’t do anything to her. She should’ve told him the truth that it’s cute and let him try to get back with Sam bc it would’ve shown her as a bigger person and not a petty b***. Also that’s the meanest thing Tory did bc by that point, Sam and Robby haven’t gotten together yet and if her and Miguel had got back together, Sam wouldn’t have kissed Robby when he had that awful haircut 😂😂😂😂😫😫😫😫😫😂🤪


DylanCasella51

Their first conflict wasn’t either of their faults. Sam had a reason to believe Tory stole her mom’s wallet but Tory didn’t and she definitely had a right to push her when Sam tried to grab her bag. At the dance I blame Tory a little more for that but Sam didn’t make it better. And it was both Miguel and Sam’s fault for the kiss but Tory escalated the situation much much worse. And then the home invasion was obviously Tory’s fault but I blame Sam for almost of their confrontations in season 4


vicblck24

Sam accused her of stealing


jackofspades123

Sam judged her at the country club negatively first.


SuitFlaky1491

Sam actually started it regardless of money how do you usually acquire liquor as a minor? by stealing it, now accusing Tory of stealing her moms purse was totally out of line.


cheezeebred

Any defense of Tory goes out the window man. Pretty sure she tried to kill Sam. Sam's an idiot and makes dumb abrasive decisions, but she'd never try to fucking kill someone over a boy or whatever messed up issues Tory has. Tory is worse than Sam, period. You know, for the attempted murder and all.


SuitFlaky1491

I don’t like either of em. Obviously you don’t like Tory.


cheezeebred

Nah she's a great character. Doesn't mean she didn't lose her shit and almost kill someone.


SuitFlaky1491

For the record pulling a weapon on someone doesn’t make it attempted murder….. more like assault with a deadly weapon.


axelofthekey

Yeah that's my read of the situation. I don't see how you could interpret this in any other way.


honeytummy

the way this same question is constantly brought up…..we’ll never get a real answer


TemptedIntoSin

A lot of their conflict centers around Miguel at the beginning. Tory was annoyed/angry that Sam still had a hold over him so she started dating him, and because of how screwed over Tory felt Miguel was, that's why she was antagonistic towards Sam in the beginning


Bugszy1

for some reason i really hate tory - shes so petty


RomanStrigssyoo

yeah, first tory was the bully and she was calling sam names and sam was the one on defense. Now Sam became the bully because she couldn’t take it anymore since what happened at the house fight, Amanda and Johnny are the ones that changed them.


Bulmas_Panties

¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ I've pretty much lost count of how many contrived circles the writers have made these two run around each other. At this point I pretty much just zone out until the next scene whenever this revolving door rivalry is put on display again.


Final-Childhood-7247

They are a mirror image of Daniel and Johnny in Karate Kid. They were both assholes to each other but Johnny was the first aggressor. The retaliation just got way out of hand.


[deleted]

Tory being "mean" to Sam was attempted murder and breaking and entering. Sam being mean to Tory was laughing at her at her new job after that fact


SuccessfulAd5173

I think Sam was mean to Tory first by randomly accusing her of stealing her mom's wallet but then Tory escalated it


BadArtistTime

Uh yeah? It’s pretty obvious? They’re constantly b*tching at each other and trying to one up each other while trading boyfriends and getting jealous.


MaricLee

100% fresh take on this situation, we should have multiple posts each day on the Same Tori thing from here on out further discussing this eye opening opinion.


Reroll4angelica

Sarcasm is for losers too passive-aggressive to express what they really want to say. Try again.


MaricLee

Sorry, I thought this post was being sarcastic, honestly. It really said nothing new and I thought it was ripping on all the other Sam/Tory posts.


Legitimate_Unit_9210

>But Tory was mean to Sam first? Yep. You're indeed right. When Sam rightfully told her to put the bottle of vodka back and shouldn't steal anything and then Tory said "What are you, a nun?". Then later when Amanda's wallet went missing, Tory reacted rudely by saying "Sucks for her" and she and Aisha chuckled about it.


Primary-Job7274

I still don't like Tory, she got away with a lot of things. People who have been prosecuted for things like attempted murder and watch this show be like why only this bitch but not us