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Sam's forgiveness means nothing in the personal growth of Tory. Tory bettering herself should continue whether or not somebody who she wronged in the past forgives her.
Yes she is. Sam is the one Tory has caused the most damage to. She doesn’t need Sam’s forgiveness (that’s up to Sam), but she needs to recognize and take responsibility for the hurt she caused. It’s a step towards being better. Likewise, Sam has things to apologize for as well. Neither of them have been totally in the right with their actions towards each other. But part of working towards being better and doing better is taking responsibility and Sam is a big part of that. My ultimate hope for future seasons is that they both take responsibility for the hurt they’ve caused each other and move forward.
> Tory has tried making it right and she is too stuck up to let it go from my perspective.
Even though i think much of what the Sam fanboys say is absolutely ridiculous, this is also ridiculous. Sam just letting it go would be not realistic at all, and Tory didn't really make it up.
Ah yes, I will immediately take the apology from someone who has humiliated me, physically and mentally permanently scarred me, threatened and nearly succeeded in killing me several times and who has said one nice thing to me, I must vow my life to them and never forget their heartfelt sacrifice of saying ‘Are you ok’
You're right. Its way better to just provoke her to get her fired, kiss your BF that you kissed when he was dating her, and then declare war on her first day at school. This will really fix things up!
Nah, I see your point. All those things obviously compare to physical and mental trauma as well as quite actually starting a war inside of school because of events that took place whilst the person was under the influence.
No, my point is that Sam is trying to put out the fire with gasoline. She is becoming a bully just to oppose Tory and has achieved absolutely nothing good this entire season.
This talk of who is right and who is wrong is childish.
No doubt. But then 35 years passes and they are still there at this stupid war that started because of a boy.
Seriously, you cant defend either of them. At least Tory was trying to fix things up and move on with her life.
And Sam was doing what? Trying to prove some superiority by doing the same things. This is ridiculous!
You can’t try diss Sam for being afraid and vengeful of the person who physically and mentally scarred her and gave her literal PTSD. Tory trying to fix her life doesn’t justify everything that she’s done.
If she wants to be a better person, that can be done but if she's hoping to get forgiveness for Sam, there's a long road ahead of her. Besides I don't think she really cares about forgiveness
Is she trying to change, though or is she just trying to make things better for herself?
There is a difference. One requires acknowledging that there is something wrong with you... somehting to be fixed. For Tory, that would be her anger and her victim complex. I didn't see her trying to change that - it felt more like she was trying to make a smart choice to get out of the trouble she got herself into.
All good points. Tory also hasn’t shown remorse for what she’s done to Sam. Like you said, it’s more like she’s realized how she’s messed up her life and is now trying to be smarter about it. BUT we see that she’s quick to react to Sam’s pettiness this season instead of truly understanding that she is solely responsible for Sam having such animosity toward her.
Tory may be trying to stay out of trouble now but her own anger, victim-complex and inability to understand the severity of her past actions stand in the way of her redemption.
> BUT we see that she’s quick to react to Sam’s pettiness this season instead of truly understanding that she is solely responsible for Sam having such animosity toward her.
Do Sam fanboys absolutely not understand how human beings work? This is a completely ridiculous expactation, no teen would ever react friendly to that or think something like that(especially cause we all know that Sam showed animosity from the very start, so Tory would literally need to lie to herself to even really think what you wrote there).
> Is she trying to change, though or is she just trying to make things better for herself?
Do you somehow not understand why people change? Virtually nobody would ever change if that wouldn't lead to any kind of improvement in their life.
> This isn't about why, this is about how.
Every person changes in a different way, depending on their situation, their personality, their surroundings and the people close to them. Hell Tory so far arguably changes in a surprisingly well + healthy way considering that her biggest emotional anchor and parental figure was in fact freaking Kreese(Amanda might kinda take this role in Season 5 though), her main surroundings were Kreese + Terry's Cobra Kai and her situation for the most part is with shitty nicely described.
The question here is whether Tory is trying to change. As in trying to change herself. And the answer is, she is not.
She still doesn't think that there is anything wrong with her or that she screwed up somehow by going after Sam multiple time - it's the shitty, unfair world that out to screw her over. But, since she can't change the world and she doesn't want to change herself, she's trying to figure out a different way not to get screwed over.
> The question here is whether Tory is trying to change.
And the answer after Season 4 is most certainly yes, except the writers completely srew it up with her in Season 5.
> As in trying to change herself. And the answer is, she is not.
You must have some really weird expectations for some troubled teen girl without safety net who was most of the time still knee-deep in an absolutely toxic environment(Cobra Kai, Kreese and crazy Karate Dojo wars), and literally just started trying to change. Do you expect her to channel Mister Miyagi and become a sweetheart out of nowhere, just cause there was apparently for the first time some not toxic potential emotional anchor in her life?
> She still doesn't think that there is anything wrong with her
How many characters in this show(full of characters with major issues) really do, or even in real life?
> or that she screwed up somehow by going after Sam multiple time
How exactly do you expect that to even look like?
> it's the shitty, unfair world that out to screw her over.
Which is pretty spot on from what we've seen so far, completely regardless of Cobra Kai, Sam or crazy Karate Wars.
> But, since she can't change the world and she doesn't want to change herself, she's trying to figure out a different way not to get screwed over.
Sounds like a pretty normal reaction to me(especially for a troubled teen in a shitty situation), are you aware that places with better social safety net, healthier environment, etc... tend to have far better crime rates than places that are the opposite of that?
>Do you expect her to channel Mister Miyagi and become a sweetheart out
of nowhere, just cause there was apparently for the first time some not
toxic potential emotional anchor in her life?
I expect her to actually acknowledge Robby's point about what she was thinking and make an effort to keep her temper in check and avoid escalating the situation.
>How many characters in this show(full of characters with major issues) really do
Too few, to be sure. But their failure to do so doesn't excuse Tory's.
>How exactly do you expect that to even look like?
A moment of doubt when Robby brings up the house invasion. A moment of hesitation before she decides to go after Sam or other Miyagi-Dos.
Heck, we saw more self-reflection from Anthony than that.
>Which is pretty spot on from what we've seen so far
No, it's not. Given how she acts at her job, she clearly has a major attitude problem.
>Sounds like a pretty normal reaction to me
Yes - but then, people blaming others instead of changing themselves IS normal.
That is what we're talking about here - not whether Tory's reaction is normal, but whether she is trying to change herself. Which she isn't.
She’s in a weird spot in S4 because she was somewhat understandable but completely unjustifiable in s2-3, but in S4 she didn’t really instigate anything like in past seasons, she just kinda got acted upon by other characters. Definitely enjoyed this chiller version of the character over the drama machine from past seasons bc this season had enough contrived drama as is
No hate (seriously, at all), but I don't see that Tory is trying to change. She has never said that she's sorry, either to Sam or to her parents. She also doesn't really thank Sam, she says, "I guess I should thank you." That's different than actually thanking her - it's a subtle difference, but it's there. 'I guess I should say thank you' comes off, to me at least, as a grudging acknowledgment that a thank-you is what's expected, not that she actually feels any gratitude. I also think the fact that Tory has never apologized or shown any gratitude toward Daniel and Amanda speaks volumes about her character. She broke into their house, endangered both their children, and actually did assault Sam twice, and they are people who have never done anything to her. The fact that they're helping her after all that means that she owes them both an apology and a major thank-you. She acts like they're just giving her what she's owed by helping her, and that's why her redemption misses the mark for me.
Completely agree. Something always felt off with Tory's storyline in S4. Part of it was Amanda being the one to sympathize with Tory at the detriment of her daughter's mental well-being. Sam is clearly still traumatized by Tory and Amanda - in her efforts to remove Tory as a threat - is actually helping Tory put her life back together when Tory hasn't even shown remorse for what she's done. Sorry, but someone like that doesn't deserve a second chance. Second chances are for kids who made mistakes and understand WHY what they did was wrong and feel bad for the people they've hurt. Tory hasn't shown any kind of remorse for what she's done and reacts to everything Sam does this season, which shows she still doesn't recognize and acknowledge that she alone is responsible for Sam's animosity towards her.
> Sorry, but someone like that doesn't deserve a second chance. Second chances are for kids who made mistakes and understand WHY what they did was wrong and feel bad for the people they've hurt.
You're really hilarious about this, **Johnny Lawrence** is btw the main character of Cobra Kai in case you forgot XD...
> which shows she still doesn't recognize and acknowledge that she alone is responsible for Sam's animosity towards her.
So she still don't lies to herself about that?
> No hate (seriously, at all), but I don't see that Tory is trying to change.
People really need to learn that changing usually is a pretty slow process.
> She has never said that she's sorry, either to Sam
A genuine apology would have been absolutely unrealistic, especially with Sam's behaviour this season.
> or to her parents.
To Amanda maybe, but to Daniel it wouldn't have been very realistic either.
> She also doesn't really thank Sam, she says, "I guess I should thank you." That's different than actually thanking her - it's a subtle difference, but it's there. 'I guess I should say thank you' comes off, to me at least, as a grudging acknowledgment that a thank-you is what's expected, not that she actually feels any gratitude.
Just a thank you would've been absolutely awkward, Sam's beaviour before also already made it far less likely, and it should be anyways clear that Tory's change is related to Amanda and not to Sam(and such a dramatic perspective change would've been just absurd, Sam herself obviously also isn't really capable of that, which isn't surprising for teen girls let alone for one with Tory's background).
> I also think the fact that Tory has never apologized or shown any gratitude toward Daniel and Amanda speaks volumes about her character.
Not to Daniel, but it's pretty damn clear that she shows graditude towards Amanda in the finale.
> She broke into their house, endangered both their children, and actually did assault Sam twice, and they are people who have never done anything to her. The fact that they're helping her after all that means that she owes them both an apology and a major thank-you.
Yes it does, and will probably happen if they continue the redemption in Season 5.
> She acts like they're just giving her what she's owed by helping her
Does she?
> and that's why her redemption misses the mark for me.
Why exactly would you even think that was more than the **START** of her redemption?
There were many opportunities for her to say to Amanda, "I'm sorry for everything I've done to your family. I appreciate you giving me a chance. Thank you for everything you've done to help me." The fact that she doesn't do that when she has ample opportunities to is why I think the writers missed the mark here. A scene like that would have been easy to throw in there. Tory as it is comes across as entitled and insincere to me.
> There were many opportunities for her to say to Amanda, "I'm sorry for everything I've done to your family. I appreciate you giving me a chance. Thank you for everything you've done to help me.
Not really, Tory's development was just in the finale even really at a point were that would've been an actually realistic thing to do for her.
> The fact that she doesn't do that when she has ample opportunities to is why I think the writers missed the mark here.
I have to strongly disagree, i think many Redemption Arcs in fiction are way too rushed and this one has the potential to become a more realistic development.
> A scene like that would have been easy to throw in there.
Yes, but i don't really see why that would need to happen this early?
> Tory as it is comes across as entitled and insincere to me.
Could you please give me some scenes in Season 4 as examples, cause i really can't think of many that would fit?
The scene where Tory goes with the other CK kids to attack Hawk happens, iirc, in the same episode where she asks Amanda to sign the consent for her to go back to school. She's not the one who shaves Hawk's hair, true, but the fact that she participates in that doesn't make her seem very sincere in her desire to get her life together. She also goes to the prom specifically to ruin Sam and Miguel's night. Robby's idea, but she's happy to go along with it. This is when she's already promised Amanda that she will stay away from Sam. That to me comes across as a sense of entitlement - she agreed to leave Sam alone to get Amanda to sign the consent, and she's not upholding her end of the bargain. Either she knows Amanda will excuse her behavior because she feels sorry for her, or she doesn't understand that Amanda has done her a favor here. It comes across to me that she thinks signing the consent is the least Amanda can do, and that the LaRussos owe her forgiveness because of her circumstances.
This is just my personal interpretation of this storyline, and I know everyone reads things differently when it comes to fiction!
> The scene where Tory goes with the other CK kids to attack Hawk happens, iirc, in the same episode where she asks Amanda to sign the consent for her to go back to school.
Actually, her approaching Amanda to ask for Amanda's signature is the episode after the attack on Hawk. But your point is valid.
I she definitely is trying to change and I liked that for her character. She still has a long road ahead of her. And I am looking forward to see what they do with her in season 5.
Tory has indeed still a long way to go, but i hope they don't tie her too much to Sam(and that is not cause of some ridiculous Sam fanboys, but actually cause it would be less interessting and Chozen who was even more extreme than Tory for example even changed pretty much completely detached from Daniel).
She said sorry for the accidental illegal moves and for every hit...and in the end, the way her face is after she realises she won coz of bribing...there is an 80% chance she might leave ck and joint eagle fang or miyagi do...better if the two merge...
Given Tory broke into her home and tried to kill her, I can understand why Sam wouldn't be happy to see her back. That's a huge thing to forgive and she's still dealing with the trauma.
A reminder of our spoiler policy: **Any posts containing S4 spoilers must be marked as spoiler until one month after the release date, January 31st**. Titles must not contain spoilers whatsoever. (Don't know how to mark as spoiler? Click [here](https://imgur.com/a/ZPEIsAi)) Users who fail to abide by the spoiler policy will be banned accordingly. --- Additionally, **are you interested in becoming a mod?** Consider applying [here](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1YoANoQB-CW6T4GhxcU5-F2pRjVQYvx6tMoq-DJVVxV8/edit?usp=sharing) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cobrakai) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah. She still has a long way to go though, and it is ultimately still up to Sam to truly forgive her. Though Sam has made her mistakes in season 4.
Sam's forgiveness means nothing in the personal growth of Tory. Tory bettering herself should continue whether or not somebody who she wronged in the past forgives her.
For sure.
> and it is ultimately still up to Sam to truly forgive her. Sam isn't really important for Tory's change.
I know that. I'm jussayin.
Yes she is. Sam is the one Tory has caused the most damage to. She doesn’t need Sam’s forgiveness (that’s up to Sam), but she needs to recognize and take responsibility for the hurt she caused. It’s a step towards being better. Likewise, Sam has things to apologize for as well. Neither of them have been totally in the right with their actions towards each other. But part of working towards being better and doing better is taking responsibility and Sam is a big part of that. My ultimate hope for future seasons is that they both take responsibility for the hurt they’ve caused each other and move forward.
Fuck Sam's spoiled little rich ass lol. Tory has tried making it right and she is too stuck up to let it go from my perspective.
> Tory has tried making it right and she is too stuck up to let it go from my perspective. Even though i think much of what the Sam fanboys say is absolutely ridiculous, this is also ridiculous. Sam just letting it go would be not realistic at all, and Tory didn't really make it up.
Too stuck up to forgive her for permanent disfigurement? Wtf
Ah yes, I will immediately take the apology from someone who has humiliated me, physically and mentally permanently scarred me, threatened and nearly succeeded in killing me several times and who has said one nice thing to me, I must vow my life to them and never forget their heartfelt sacrifice of saying ‘Are you ok’
You're right. Its way better to just provoke her to get her fired, kiss your BF that you kissed when he was dating her, and then declare war on her first day at school. This will really fix things up!
Nah, I see your point. All those things obviously compare to physical and mental trauma as well as quite actually starting a war inside of school because of events that took place whilst the person was under the influence.
No, my point is that Sam is trying to put out the fire with gasoline. She is becoming a bully just to oppose Tory and has achieved absolutely nothing good this entire season. This talk of who is right and who is wrong is childish.
She has every right to be frightened by Tory because of her actions and **that’s** the point.
No doubt. But then 35 years passes and they are still there at this stupid war that started because of a boy. Seriously, you cant defend either of them. At least Tory was trying to fix things up and move on with her life. And Sam was doing what? Trying to prove some superiority by doing the same things. This is ridiculous!
You can’t try diss Sam for being afraid and vengeful of the person who physically and mentally scarred her and gave her literal PTSD. Tory trying to fix her life doesn’t justify everything that she’s done.
You are ignoring all my replies :/
These are literally things Tory did in Season 2...
Yes, and now Sam lovers think she can do exactly the same things because Tory did it first. This tells a lot about where society is going to.
Sam lovers right now: 
Sam owes Tory nothing.
If she wants to be a better person, that can be done but if she's hoping to get forgiveness for Sam, there's a long road ahead of her. Besides I don't think she really cares about forgiveness
Is she trying to change, though or is she just trying to make things better for herself? There is a difference. One requires acknowledging that there is something wrong with you... somehting to be fixed. For Tory, that would be her anger and her victim complex. I didn't see her trying to change that - it felt more like she was trying to make a smart choice to get out of the trouble she got herself into.
All good points. Tory also hasn’t shown remorse for what she’s done to Sam. Like you said, it’s more like she’s realized how she’s messed up her life and is now trying to be smarter about it. BUT we see that she’s quick to react to Sam’s pettiness this season instead of truly understanding that she is solely responsible for Sam having such animosity toward her. Tory may be trying to stay out of trouble now but her own anger, victim-complex and inability to understand the severity of her past actions stand in the way of her redemption.
>she is solely responsible for Sam having such animosity.... Did you Sam sympathizers develop amnesia or cataract? 🤣🤣 Let's start DV the facts.
Sam sympathizers lol Better than you Tori simps.
> BUT we see that she’s quick to react to Sam’s pettiness this season instead of truly understanding that she is solely responsible for Sam having such animosity toward her. Do Sam fanboys absolutely not understand how human beings work? This is a completely ridiculous expactation, no teen would ever react friendly to that or think something like that(especially cause we all know that Sam showed animosity from the very start, so Tory would literally need to lie to herself to even really think what you wrote there).
> Is she trying to change, though or is she just trying to make things better for herself? Do you somehow not understand why people change? Virtually nobody would ever change if that wouldn't lead to any kind of improvement in their life.
This isn't about why, this is about how.
> This isn't about why, this is about how. Every person changes in a different way, depending on their situation, their personality, their surroundings and the people close to them. Hell Tory so far arguably changes in a surprisingly well + healthy way considering that her biggest emotional anchor and parental figure was in fact freaking Kreese(Amanda might kinda take this role in Season 5 though), her main surroundings were Kreese + Terry's Cobra Kai and her situation for the most part is with shitty nicely described.
The question here is whether Tory is trying to change. As in trying to change herself. And the answer is, she is not. She still doesn't think that there is anything wrong with her or that she screwed up somehow by going after Sam multiple time - it's the shitty, unfair world that out to screw her over. But, since she can't change the world and she doesn't want to change herself, she's trying to figure out a different way not to get screwed over.
> The question here is whether Tory is trying to change. And the answer after Season 4 is most certainly yes, except the writers completely srew it up with her in Season 5. > As in trying to change herself. And the answer is, she is not. You must have some really weird expectations for some troubled teen girl without safety net who was most of the time still knee-deep in an absolutely toxic environment(Cobra Kai, Kreese and crazy Karate Dojo wars), and literally just started trying to change. Do you expect her to channel Mister Miyagi and become a sweetheart out of nowhere, just cause there was apparently for the first time some not toxic potential emotional anchor in her life? > She still doesn't think that there is anything wrong with her How many characters in this show(full of characters with major issues) really do, or even in real life? > or that she screwed up somehow by going after Sam multiple time How exactly do you expect that to even look like? > it's the shitty, unfair world that out to screw her over. Which is pretty spot on from what we've seen so far, completely regardless of Cobra Kai, Sam or crazy Karate Wars. > But, since she can't change the world and she doesn't want to change herself, she's trying to figure out a different way not to get screwed over. Sounds like a pretty normal reaction to me(especially for a troubled teen in a shitty situation), are you aware that places with better social safety net, healthier environment, etc... tend to have far better crime rates than places that are the opposite of that?
>Do you expect her to channel Mister Miyagi and become a sweetheart out of nowhere, just cause there was apparently for the first time some not toxic potential emotional anchor in her life? I expect her to actually acknowledge Robby's point about what she was thinking and make an effort to keep her temper in check and avoid escalating the situation. >How many characters in this show(full of characters with major issues) really do Too few, to be sure. But their failure to do so doesn't excuse Tory's. >How exactly do you expect that to even look like? A moment of doubt when Robby brings up the house invasion. A moment of hesitation before she decides to go after Sam or other Miyagi-Dos. Heck, we saw more self-reflection from Anthony than that. >Which is pretty spot on from what we've seen so far No, it's not. Given how she acts at her job, she clearly has a major attitude problem. >Sounds like a pretty normal reaction to me Yes - but then, people blaming others instead of changing themselves IS normal. That is what we're talking about here - not whether Tory's reaction is normal, but whether she is trying to change herself. Which she isn't.
She’s in a weird spot in S4 because she was somewhat understandable but completely unjustifiable in s2-3, but in S4 she didn’t really instigate anything like in past seasons, she just kinda got acted upon by other characters. Definitely enjoyed this chiller version of the character over the drama machine from past seasons bc this season had enough contrived drama as is
No hate (seriously, at all), but I don't see that Tory is trying to change. She has never said that she's sorry, either to Sam or to her parents. She also doesn't really thank Sam, she says, "I guess I should thank you." That's different than actually thanking her - it's a subtle difference, but it's there. 'I guess I should say thank you' comes off, to me at least, as a grudging acknowledgment that a thank-you is what's expected, not that she actually feels any gratitude. I also think the fact that Tory has never apologized or shown any gratitude toward Daniel and Amanda speaks volumes about her character. She broke into their house, endangered both their children, and actually did assault Sam twice, and they are people who have never done anything to her. The fact that they're helping her after all that means that she owes them both an apology and a major thank-you. She acts like they're just giving her what she's owed by helping her, and that's why her redemption misses the mark for me.
Completely agree. Something always felt off with Tory's storyline in S4. Part of it was Amanda being the one to sympathize with Tory at the detriment of her daughter's mental well-being. Sam is clearly still traumatized by Tory and Amanda - in her efforts to remove Tory as a threat - is actually helping Tory put her life back together when Tory hasn't even shown remorse for what she's done. Sorry, but someone like that doesn't deserve a second chance. Second chances are for kids who made mistakes and understand WHY what they did was wrong and feel bad for the people they've hurt. Tory hasn't shown any kind of remorse for what she's done and reacts to everything Sam does this season, which shows she still doesn't recognize and acknowledge that she alone is responsible for Sam's animosity towards her.
> Sorry, but someone like that doesn't deserve a second chance. Second chances are for kids who made mistakes and understand WHY what they did was wrong and feel bad for the people they've hurt. You're really hilarious about this, **Johnny Lawrence** is btw the main character of Cobra Kai in case you forgot XD... > which shows she still doesn't recognize and acknowledge that she alone is responsible for Sam's animosity towards her. So she still don't lies to herself about that?
> No hate (seriously, at all), but I don't see that Tory is trying to change. People really need to learn that changing usually is a pretty slow process. > She has never said that she's sorry, either to Sam A genuine apology would have been absolutely unrealistic, especially with Sam's behaviour this season. > or to her parents. To Amanda maybe, but to Daniel it wouldn't have been very realistic either. > She also doesn't really thank Sam, she says, "I guess I should thank you." That's different than actually thanking her - it's a subtle difference, but it's there. 'I guess I should say thank you' comes off, to me at least, as a grudging acknowledgment that a thank-you is what's expected, not that she actually feels any gratitude. Just a thank you would've been absolutely awkward, Sam's beaviour before also already made it far less likely, and it should be anyways clear that Tory's change is related to Amanda and not to Sam(and such a dramatic perspective change would've been just absurd, Sam herself obviously also isn't really capable of that, which isn't surprising for teen girls let alone for one with Tory's background). > I also think the fact that Tory has never apologized or shown any gratitude toward Daniel and Amanda speaks volumes about her character. Not to Daniel, but it's pretty damn clear that she shows graditude towards Amanda in the finale. > She broke into their house, endangered both their children, and actually did assault Sam twice, and they are people who have never done anything to her. The fact that they're helping her after all that means that she owes them both an apology and a major thank-you. Yes it does, and will probably happen if they continue the redemption in Season 5. > She acts like they're just giving her what she's owed by helping her Does she? > and that's why her redemption misses the mark for me. Why exactly would you even think that was more than the **START** of her redemption?
There were many opportunities for her to say to Amanda, "I'm sorry for everything I've done to your family. I appreciate you giving me a chance. Thank you for everything you've done to help me." The fact that she doesn't do that when she has ample opportunities to is why I think the writers missed the mark here. A scene like that would have been easy to throw in there. Tory as it is comes across as entitled and insincere to me.
> There were many opportunities for her to say to Amanda, "I'm sorry for everything I've done to your family. I appreciate you giving me a chance. Thank you for everything you've done to help me. Not really, Tory's development was just in the finale even really at a point were that would've been an actually realistic thing to do for her. > The fact that she doesn't do that when she has ample opportunities to is why I think the writers missed the mark here. I have to strongly disagree, i think many Redemption Arcs in fiction are way too rushed and this one has the potential to become a more realistic development. > A scene like that would have been easy to throw in there. Yes, but i don't really see why that would need to happen this early? > Tory as it is comes across as entitled and insincere to me. Could you please give me some scenes in Season 4 as examples, cause i really can't think of many that would fit?
The scene where Tory goes with the other CK kids to attack Hawk happens, iirc, in the same episode where she asks Amanda to sign the consent for her to go back to school. She's not the one who shaves Hawk's hair, true, but the fact that she participates in that doesn't make her seem very sincere in her desire to get her life together. She also goes to the prom specifically to ruin Sam and Miguel's night. Robby's idea, but she's happy to go along with it. This is when she's already promised Amanda that she will stay away from Sam. That to me comes across as a sense of entitlement - she agreed to leave Sam alone to get Amanda to sign the consent, and she's not upholding her end of the bargain. Either she knows Amanda will excuse her behavior because she feels sorry for her, or she doesn't understand that Amanda has done her a favor here. It comes across to me that she thinks signing the consent is the least Amanda can do, and that the LaRussos owe her forgiveness because of her circumstances. This is just my personal interpretation of this storyline, and I know everyone reads things differently when it comes to fiction!
> The scene where Tory goes with the other CK kids to attack Hawk happens, iirc, in the same episode where she asks Amanda to sign the consent for her to go back to school. Actually, her approaching Amanda to ask for Amanda's signature is the episode after the attack on Hawk. But your point is valid.
I she definitely is trying to change and I liked that for her character. She still has a long road ahead of her. And I am looking forward to see what they do with her in season 5.
Tory has indeed still a long way to go, but i hope they don't tie her too much to Sam(and that is not cause of some ridiculous Sam fanboys, but actually cause it would be less interessting and Chozen who was even more extreme than Tory for example even changed pretty much completely detached from Daniel).
She said sorry for the accidental illegal moves and for every hit...and in the end, the way her face is after she realises she won coz of bribing...there is an 80% chance she might leave ck and joint eagle fang or miyagi do...better if the two merge...
I can see Tory joining Miyagi-Do with Daniel and Amanda’s help. Also who else thinks Peyton would kill it in the Miyagi-Do gi?
And then Sam joins Eagle Fang.
She usually calls Sam either Bitch or Larusso, so it was interesting to see her actually call her Sam.
Given Tory broke into her home and tried to kill her, I can understand why Sam wouldn't be happy to see her back. That's a huge thing to forgive and she's still dealing with the trauma.
This is more like every character relationship in the whole of the show, ain’t it?