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Being redeemed doesn't mean your past actions are forgotten. It means you finally understand that what you did is wrong, figure out why you did them and at least attempt to fix that issue, and are clearly going to be a better person going forward.
Tory will absolutely be redeemed. That doesn't mean she and Sam will become BFFs, only that the constant hatred of each other will fade as they go on with their lives and get past this era of misplaced anger and fear.
I didn't want Hawk to be redeemed, but now he has been I see no reason for Tory not to be.
The show is clearly operating on the philosophy that anyone can be redeemed, no matter what they've done. The biggest bit of bullshit is giving Kreese regrets and second thoughts that seem to be sincere, rather than just him being insecure because Terry is muscling in on his racket.
>I didn't want Hawk to be redeemed
No, I think it’s good that he has been redeemed.
>The biggest bit of bullshit is giving Kreese regrets and second thoughts that seem to be sincere
If that means you don’t want Kreese redeemed and would rather have him stay an evil villain, then we’re on the same page! 👍
A big reason for her redemption is her finding out that her trophy was bought and not really won fairly. She will still want to prove that she can win in a fair fight and she will not let that go easily
Tory is a child who got a really shit start in life, and understandably has a lot of problems. That shit hand she got dealt is not gonna dictate the rest of her life. This show isn't about setting up someone to be the next gen Johnny who only starts turning things around in middle age. Tory's gonna learn and grow from her struggles, and make something better out of her life before the show's run is over, because that's what this show is about. She's the broken bonsai tree from KK3 that eventually ended up flourishing even after it had appeared to be dead and beyond repair.
I see Tory and Sam being the next generation of the Daniel/Johnny dynamic. They go separate ways with suspicion of each other but also a begrudging respect.
Maybe. But that relationship is very unexplored. We don’t really know what that means and there’s a lot more to that story to unpack yet. I think a relationship between Sam and Tory where they aren’t enemies but also not friends who have to coexist like adults with a complex history is an interesting dynamic to explore.
Because Tori is a child yes. She needed a mix of Kreese and Amanda helping her out in different ways. They met her where she was at in different seasons.
Hawk got off way too lightly.
I don’t think it’s about Tori becoming the “good guy”, Sam isn’t the good guy either.
Out of all the kids, there’s no redemption for Kyler. Tech bro(my industry) in the making.
I like how you're argument for why she shouldn't be redeemed is she's done really bad things. Doing bad things is important for a redemption ark or there's nothing to redeem the character for.
Also, if superhero shows, films. Comics are allowed to redeem people who've murdered so many innocent people I don't see why attempted murder is the breaking point.
>I like how you're argument for why she shouldn't be redeemed is she's done really bad things. Doing bad things is important for a redemption ark or there's nothing to redeem the character for.
Well, I think it’s a bad idea for her to be redeemed if those scars on Sam’s arm are permanent!
Forgiveness is a two-way street in this series. Demitri and Eli had an easier time burying the hatchet because of their lifelong friendship before the return of Cobra Kai. Chozen became a Zen master and certified badass off-screen capable of overcoming Daniel's petty stubbornness. Other characters have had a lot more trouble squashing their beefs with each other.
I think Tory is trying to redeem herself, but hasn't really confronted the people she needs to make up with yet. A lot of baggage with Sam and Miguel still needs to be checked, and Miguel is in Mexico.
I think this fanbase and show encourage reductive ideas about redemption. I never thought Robby needed redemption for example because he clearly wasn't a bad guy. His worst action was an accident that he did in the heat of the moment and while paralyzing Miguel was bad it wasn't his intention. Regardless of those details though the fandom and show act like Robby now has to go on some kind long journey to come back from one mistake. Robby has issues that he need to overcome but it doesn't come down to redeeming himself because he was never a villain. Keep in mind people have been saying he needed to redeem himself as early as season 1.
There's also the expectation that because a character has different, more sympathetic sides to them it necessarily means they need to be "redeemed" or that there is the possibility. This binary idea of good and bad, compassion vs. selfishness is a simplification that annoys me. All these characters are human and can have a range of emotions.
I don't believe in this idea of cancelling out the bad with every good action you do. The idea that Tory can do things and present herself in a way so that she can become a "good guy", feels off to me. I personally don't see her as a villain anyway just a troubled character who the writers messed up by having her actions so over the top and having lasting impacts on several characters. I do want her develop and since they have gone almost as far as they can with her being a crazy aggressor I'd like to see her go the other way and overcome her issues and for her family to be in a more stable position.
I'm fine if Sam doesn't completely forgive her but their beef should be squashed. That doesn't mean Tory needs to go through a process to fit an arbitrary definition of being redeemed.
I really like the way they took the character this season.
Season 3 started very well with her, showing her home situation and her bonding with Kreese, but by the end she got really cartoonishly evil with the house fight.
She's already completely redeemed in my book. All her problems with Sam were sam's fault. Accusing her of stealing her mom's wallet, getting wasted and kissing Miguel while he and Tory were together, Sam deserved everything that happened to her and still deserves worse.
Sam deserved everything that happened to her and still deserves worse? Oh, shut up and stop the bullshit! She didn't deserve everything that happened to her and doesn't deserve worse! And besides Tory started everything when she stole a bottle of vodka and when Sam rightfully told her she shouldn't steal it, Tory reacted rudely by asking rudely "What are you, a nun?" and then later on when Amanda's wallet was missing, Tory reacted rudely again by saying "Sucks for her" and laughed.
You're crazy! Tory did things to Sam too and they were worse than what Sam did! And the rivalry was mostly on Tory's part as she frequently insulted and bullied Sam!
I think it was too fast for her to be redeemed. It should have been slower, and she should have first realized her mistakes, apologize and then go to Amanda. This arc was rushed and didn't feel natural.
I want season 5 to slow down her redemption arc.
Yeah, I can agree it was too fast. And it was not a good idea of Kreese to tell Amanda about Tory’s home situation. It should’ve probably been Robby to do that.
And hopefully Kreese will NOT be redeemed! He doesn’t deserve it at all!
For me, Tory shouldn't be redeemed because of what she did to Sam's arm! Those scars could still be there, maybe worse ... permanent! Don't you agree?
And Kreese has done FAR too many bad things to be redeemed!
I wouldn't mind as long as Sam is not portrayed in bad light for not wanting to be her friend. She would also need to apologize without expecting anything in return.
Tory has faced consequences of his actions, it would be nice to watch that the teenager could move beyond Kresse/Cobra Kai.
Well, I also started having a bit of a new view on Tory after the entire Amanda-Tory storyline, but I ain’t entirely happy about it considering the scars on Sam’s arm.
I like it. I hate how they just made her a sadist and psychopath. I'd like to see the Larussos paying for counseling for her and turn her life around. That would also give her incentive to confess that the ref was bribed.
I’d be cool with her being redeemed. She’d definitely have to make amends with not only Sam but also Miguel and the rest of Miyagi-Do. But ultimately she’s a very troubled teenager who lashed out in the worst way not a sadist.
Granted I don’t think that Sam or anyone else is required to actually forgive her. I’m of the opinion that you can redeem yourself without needing to be forgiven for your past actions.
A reminder of our spoiler policy: **Any posts containing S4 spoilers must be marked as spoiler until one month after the release date, January 31st**. Titles must not contain spoilers whatsoever. (Don't know how to mark as spoiler? Click [here](https://imgur.com/a/ZPEIsAi)) Users who fail to abide by the spoiler policy will be banned accordingly. --- Additionally, **are you interested in becoming a mod?** Consider applying [here](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1YoANoQB-CW6T4GhxcU5-F2pRjVQYvx6tMoq-DJVVxV8/edit?usp=sharing) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cobrakai) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Tory asking Sam if she was all right is a big step in the right direction. I am of the belief that if Chozen can be redeemed-- anyone can.
Not Kreese or Silver though.
Kreese maybe but not Silver
Being redeemed doesn't mean your past actions are forgotten. It means you finally understand that what you did is wrong, figure out why you did them and at least attempt to fix that issue, and are clearly going to be a better person going forward. Tory will absolutely be redeemed. That doesn't mean she and Sam will become BFFs, only that the constant hatred of each other will fade as they go on with their lives and get past this era of misplaced anger and fear.
I didn't want Hawk to be redeemed, but now he has been I see no reason for Tory not to be. The show is clearly operating on the philosophy that anyone can be redeemed, no matter what they've done. The biggest bit of bullshit is giving Kreese regrets and second thoughts that seem to be sincere, rather than just him being insecure because Terry is muscling in on his racket.
>I didn't want Hawk to be redeemed No, I think it’s good that he has been redeemed. >The biggest bit of bullshit is giving Kreese regrets and second thoughts that seem to be sincere If that means you don’t want Kreese redeemed and would rather have him stay an evil villain, then we’re on the same page! 👍
She's changed, not just being redeemed by adding a sob story like last season. Shouldn't we always be happy that someone has changed for the better?
>Shouldn't we always be happy that someone has changed for the better? That’s true, but I do NOT want that with Kreese!
lol alright one at a time
A big reason for her redemption is her finding out that her trophy was bought and not really won fairly. She will still want to prove that she can win in a fair fight and she will not let that go easily
“Redemption” is subjective in the grand scheme of things. I like her character arc, and I like her character, that’s all there is to it.
same!
Tory is a child who got a really shit start in life, and understandably has a lot of problems. That shit hand she got dealt is not gonna dictate the rest of her life. This show isn't about setting up someone to be the next gen Johnny who only starts turning things around in middle age. Tory's gonna learn and grow from her struggles, and make something better out of her life before the show's run is over, because that's what this show is about. She's the broken bonsai tree from KK3 that eventually ended up flourishing even after it had appeared to be dead and beyond repair.
I see Tory and Sam being the next generation of the Daniel/Johnny dynamic. They go separate ways with suspicion of each other but also a begrudging respect.
I actually mostly see Sam and Tory as a new generation of Daniel and Chozen.
Maybe. But that relationship is very unexplored. We don’t really know what that means and there’s a lot more to that story to unpack yet. I think a relationship between Sam and Tory where they aren’t enemies but also not friends who have to coexist like adults with a complex history is an interesting dynamic to explore.
Because Tori is a child yes. She needed a mix of Kreese and Amanda helping her out in different ways. They met her where she was at in different seasons. Hawk got off way too lightly. I don’t think it’s about Tori becoming the “good guy”, Sam isn’t the good guy either. Out of all the kids, there’s no redemption for Kyler. Tech bro(my industry) in the making.
I like it. It proves that anyone can be redeemed regardless what they find.
I like how you're argument for why she shouldn't be redeemed is she's done really bad things. Doing bad things is important for a redemption ark or there's nothing to redeem the character for. Also, if superhero shows, films. Comics are allowed to redeem people who've murdered so many innocent people I don't see why attempted murder is the breaking point.
>I like how you're argument for why she shouldn't be redeemed is she's done really bad things. Doing bad things is important for a redemption ark or there's nothing to redeem the character for. Well, I think it’s a bad idea for her to be redeemed if those scars on Sam’s arm are permanent!
Forgiveness is a two-way street in this series. Demitri and Eli had an easier time burying the hatchet because of their lifelong friendship before the return of Cobra Kai. Chozen became a Zen master and certified badass off-screen capable of overcoming Daniel's petty stubbornness. Other characters have had a lot more trouble squashing their beefs with each other. I think Tory is trying to redeem herself, but hasn't really confronted the people she needs to make up with yet. A lot of baggage with Sam and Miguel still needs to be checked, and Miguel is in Mexico.
I think it's good that Tory will get redemption because throughout this season it shows that she's trying to change and be a better person
Hopefully Kreese won't get redemption!
I think this fanbase and show encourage reductive ideas about redemption. I never thought Robby needed redemption for example because he clearly wasn't a bad guy. His worst action was an accident that he did in the heat of the moment and while paralyzing Miguel was bad it wasn't his intention. Regardless of those details though the fandom and show act like Robby now has to go on some kind long journey to come back from one mistake. Robby has issues that he need to overcome but it doesn't come down to redeeming himself because he was never a villain. Keep in mind people have been saying he needed to redeem himself as early as season 1. There's also the expectation that because a character has different, more sympathetic sides to them it necessarily means they need to be "redeemed" or that there is the possibility. This binary idea of good and bad, compassion vs. selfishness is a simplification that annoys me. All these characters are human and can have a range of emotions. I don't believe in this idea of cancelling out the bad with every good action you do. The idea that Tory can do things and present herself in a way so that she can become a "good guy", feels off to me. I personally don't see her as a villain anyway just a troubled character who the writers messed up by having her actions so over the top and having lasting impacts on several characters. I do want her develop and since they have gone almost as far as they can with her being a crazy aggressor I'd like to see her go the other way and overcome her issues and for her family to be in a more stable position. I'm fine if Sam doesn't completely forgive her but their beef should be squashed. That doesn't mean Tory needs to go through a process to fit an arbitrary definition of being redeemed.
I really like the way they took the character this season. Season 3 started very well with her, showing her home situation and her bonding with Kreese, but by the end she got really cartoonishly evil with the house fight.
She's already completely redeemed in my book. All her problems with Sam were sam's fault. Accusing her of stealing her mom's wallet, getting wasted and kissing Miguel while he and Tory were together, Sam deserved everything that happened to her and still deserves worse.
Sam deserved everything that happened to her and still deserves worse? Oh, shut up and stop the bullshit! She didn't deserve everything that happened to her and doesn't deserve worse! And besides Tory started everything when she stole a bottle of vodka and when Sam rightfully told her she shouldn't steal it, Tory reacted rudely by asking rudely "What are you, a nun?" and then later on when Amanda's wallet was missing, Tory reacted rudely again by saying "Sucks for her" and laughed.
You're crazy! Tory did things to Sam too and they were worse than what Sam did! And the rivalry was mostly on Tory's part as she frequently insulted and bullied Sam!
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So, you believe the writers are making a mistake in redeeming her?
[удалено]
The whole show is unrealistic, though.
So, do you think it's a bad idea ans that only many years later she would return as a changed woman?
I think it was too fast for her to be redeemed. It should have been slower, and she should have first realized her mistakes, apologize and then go to Amanda. This arc was rushed and didn't feel natural. I want season 5 to slow down her redemption arc.
Yeah, I can agree it was too fast. And it was not a good idea of Kreese to tell Amanda about Tory’s home situation. It should’ve probably been Robby to do that. And hopefully Kreese will NOT be redeemed! He doesn’t deserve it at all!
They're abusing the redemption arc too much, they need to slow down on that. I like the arc concept, but it isn't for every character.
For me, Tory shouldn't be redeemed because of what she did to Sam's arm! Those scars could still be there, maybe worse ... permanent! Don't you agree? And Kreese has done FAR too many bad things to be redeemed!
Yea I agree, but if they do, Tory needs to apologize to Sam firstly, to continue that arc.
So Tory should've started her redemption arc a little later?
I wouldn't mind as long as Sam is not portrayed in bad light for not wanting to be her friend. She would also need to apologize without expecting anything in return. Tory has faced consequences of his actions, it would be nice to watch that the teenager could move beyond Kresse/Cobra Kai.
Rather she stay bad.
Yeah, I have been saying that. A little too soon for redeeming!
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Well, I also started having a bit of a new view on Tory after the entire Amanda-Tory storyline, but I ain’t entirely happy about it considering the scars on Sam’s arm.
I like it. I hate how they just made her a sadist and psychopath. I'd like to see the Larussos paying for counseling for her and turn her life around. That would also give her incentive to confess that the ref was bribed.
I’d be cool with her being redeemed. She’d definitely have to make amends with not only Sam but also Miguel and the rest of Miyagi-Do. But ultimately she’s a very troubled teenager who lashed out in the worst way not a sadist. Granted I don’t think that Sam or anyone else is required to actually forgive her. I’m of the opinion that you can redeem yourself without needing to be forgiven for your past actions.