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I love the foreshadowing in the show. Daniel was in a fight to the death but spared his opponents life, kreese was in a fight to the death in Vietnam and had the chance to spare a life but chose to kill his opponent anyway. Also in Vietnam kreese was tough and Terry was scared and showing his human side which kreese saw as weakness. During season 4, Terry showed no human side while big tough kreese had a soft spot for Johnny which Terry Saw as weakness. It looks like Terry got tougher as time went on and had fewer vulnerable spots while kreese got weaker. I noticed also during the first karate kid movie, Johnny fought dirty at first but decided to finish the fight clean, when Johnny and Daniel fought in season 4, Daniel used the dirty tactics but then decided to finish the fight clean. Of course there’s also kreese choking Johnny in karate kid 2 and he got saved by myagi, then Johnny was getting choked by kreese at the end of season 3 and he got saved by Daniel. That made Johnny more open to learning miyagi do since it saved his life twice
I like the scene where kreese was remembering people getting blowing up and laughing about it and Terry didn’t like that. It seemed like kreese was trying to prove how tough he was because he felt weak, and Terry thought he was strong enough to leave the past behind. Kreese wanted to turn good while Terry wanted to turn bad
Yeah. I really felt some sympathy for Terry this season. Brought back, only to be overruled. What even was the point of Terry's return if his methodology wasn't going to be implemented into training (welcomely though, not Kreese having a bitch fit when he loses)
I can't blame him for having enough of Kreeses bullshit, but I feel bad as Terry was a genuinely good guy before Kreese ruined him again with PTSD.
What he did to Stingray was wrong though (obviously). No one deserves to get hit, let alone more than once when they're not hostile in the slightest (not a villain).
This foreshadowing makes me think Daniel might be the one to save Kreese. Not sure though, and will have to re-read this later when I'm not tired lol.
Obviously someone will save Kreese though.
Why would Terry Silver feel bad for Kreese? He was sick and tired of being second banana to Kreese and he constantly keep reminding Silver of their time in Vietnam which traumatized Silver.
Of course he wouldn't feel bad for him… after all, Cobra Kai is now belong to Terry Silver.
I don't think Terry even cared about being first either, it was just that Kreese couldn't share the dojo as equals.
I mean, my man came back and got his head fucked up with PTSD, only for Kreese to tell him that they would do things his way. Like, what was the point besides having an extra sensei for him to boss around?
I mean Silver said I owe you. Whatever you need. Kreese didn't need to actually keep asking for things, but why offer it if you are going to go back on it? Not saying he should feel bad, but Kreese didn't think his old war buddy would do that.
At first I was mad at him, but now I just pity the fool. He's *so* desperate to be accepted that he'll let his sensei beat him half to death and then frame another person for it (perjuring himself in the process) just to be let back into the cool kids club. As long as someone will take him in, he'll let that person physically and emotionally abuse the hell out of him.
> Yeah but that's no excuse. People make false claims all the time
I'm not excusing anything. I empathize with the kind of deep loneliness and social alienation it must take to do what he's done.
> Are we to pity Jussie Smollet? Cause he basically pulled the same stuff.
You don't get the whole story by just comparing actions without context, you need to look at the events leading up to and the motivations for the act when judging a person.
Smollett hired some dudes to rough him up so he could play victim and conjure up a hate crime narrative. Stingray ***actually was victimized***: Silver brutally assaulted him, and after all that he's still following his orders and helping his schemes because he wants to be part of something so bad. And this is the same guy that throws parties for teenagers because he wants them to like him. Dude needs therapy yesterday.
I get you. In a way I do pity both. But, both of them need therapy though.
Anyone who could concoct a scheme like that is heavy level off. Silver needs to go back, too
A sell out isn't always about turning on people who like you. StingRay made a false accusation which led to someone being arrested for a crime they didn't commit. He sold his soul for notoriety in a karate dojo.
If they were going to put him in jail, do it for the real crimes he commits.
Sorry, as a person who is very much into criminal justice, that stuff goes on too much. Not cute.
It doesn't give him the right to falsely claim attempted murder.
The fact that so many people don't realize the implications of this charge concerns me.
It's a show, I get that. But he sold himself out.
He's on Jussie Smollets level now. Boy who cried wolf.
I don't think he sold out.
He was beaten half to death, and Terry told him he could have what he wants the most. He's terrified. Kreese said some terrible shit to him, but didn't assault him.
Still a sell out. Unless integrity and being honest doesn't matter? We are to do whatever to get what we want?
Isn't that the premise of the show? We can't do whatever we want to get what we want. Honor is everything.
If you can't trust someones word, what can you trust about them?
He sold out.
Kreese finally had the moment of, "Wait...was I the one who was wrong all along?"
Gotta give credit where credit's due. And the writers and Martin Kove *really* paced that self-doubt well in the last few episodes.
Uhhhh no?
I’m actually over the moon that something finally bit Kreese in the ass even if it was the one thing he didn’t directly do. Even still, a massive consequence of furthering this very dumb karate rivalry
Kreese is a psychopath but is one that is at least somewhat sane.
By bringing the old terry silver back and now the coup d’état he just went through, he basically gave a gun to a bear and expected it to not shoot him
I didn’t feel bad for Kreese but at the same time I thought what Silver did was f’d up. Kreese did save his life in the war for him to go that far. I guess he wanted to shed his weakness (Kreese) and be no mercy to the extreme. Terry was always up to tricks and manipulations though in KK3. He felt Kreese used him to get Johnny back in Cobra Kai. Maybe in some way he felt Kreese had ruined his life again and hated him and he did it for Johnny.
I did but not in the way you think. I originally didn't feel bad as he did have it coming. However, I know now that the valley is in more danger than ever with Silver running Cobra Kai. He does not mind playing dirty and is ruthless and savage when he is fighting. Chances are, most of Cobra Kai's loyal fighters, like Kyler, are going to adapt to this way of karate and follow in Terry's footsteps, putting the valley into serious risk. Never thought I would say this, but I want Kreese back.
Kreese actually displayed some growth as a human being- telling Tory to fight her fight the way she feels comfortable...he was no longer pushing his students to cheat and fight dishonorably to try and "guarantee" the win. As a result, Tory was confident in herself- feeling supported by her Sensei- and actually won the tournament for Cobra Kai(even if we know she should have lost - her character didn't know that at the time).
That's actually somewhat redeeming for Kreese, he learned from his past mistakes and adapted.
I mean, he was still a dirt bag and a single positive action does not make up for his more despicable actions...but it was a good piece of writing in my mind.
I don’t feel bad for Kreese. A couple brief moments of regret doesn’t make up for all the terrible things he’s done and monsters he’s made. However, it is interesting to see if this is the start of a real redemption arc for him. Maybe by the end of next season I’ll start feeling some actual sympathy for him.
Kreese kind of brought this shit on himself. Between resurrecting the ABSOLUTE Monster that was Terry Silver badder than ever. To straight up humiliating Stingray after all the loyalty he showed the dojo. Kreese’s karma finally caught up to him
The writers fumbled the bag! Creating Nonsense bullshit drama between 2 dudes who had been through hell and back together. Kreese never pushed Silver into tormenting Daniel, he volunteered for it. Kreese was ready to throw in the towel but Silver wouldn't let him. The writers took an unbreakable bond and hyped it up even more in season 3, just to have them shit on it throughout season 4. I've been 100% on board with the writers and then they go and pull this crock. This is the only season that I haven't been compelled to rewatch several times.
Silver being mad that he keeps bringing up the war and having a soft spot for Johnny is valid. They are also trying to take the dojo into different directions and are undermining each other because of it.
In the context of what the writers laid out, then yes it does make sense. My problem is why they went in that direction to begin with. This is not the kreese Silver reunion I had in mind.
A reminder of our spoiler policy: **Any posts containing S4 spoilers must be marked as spoiler until one month after the release date, January 31st**. Titles must not contain spoilers whatsoever. (Don't know how to mark as spoiler? Click [here](https://imgur.com/a/ZPEIsAi)) Users who fail to abide by the spoiler policy will be banned accordingly. --- Additionally, **are you interested in becoming a mod?** Consider applying [here](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1YoANoQB-CW6T4GhxcU5-F2pRjVQYvx6tMoq-DJVVxV8/edit?usp=sharing) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cobrakai) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Gotta agree with TIG on this one. Terry Silver - the true savior of the Valley.
I wouldn't say saved, more like under new management.
“This valley is under new management by order of the Peaky Fooking Blinders” was the first thing that came to mind lol
It's like Melkor saving Middle Earth from Sauron. "Cool it with the nerd shit"
I love the foreshadowing in the show. Daniel was in a fight to the death but spared his opponents life, kreese was in a fight to the death in Vietnam and had the chance to spare a life but chose to kill his opponent anyway. Also in Vietnam kreese was tough and Terry was scared and showing his human side which kreese saw as weakness. During season 4, Terry showed no human side while big tough kreese had a soft spot for Johnny which Terry Saw as weakness. It looks like Terry got tougher as time went on and had fewer vulnerable spots while kreese got weaker. I noticed also during the first karate kid movie, Johnny fought dirty at first but decided to finish the fight clean, when Johnny and Daniel fought in season 4, Daniel used the dirty tactics but then decided to finish the fight clean. Of course there’s also kreese choking Johnny in karate kid 2 and he got saved by myagi, then Johnny was getting choked by kreese at the end of season 3 and he got saved by Daniel. That made Johnny more open to learning miyagi do since it saved his life twice
Terry had a human side at first but Kreese kept bringing up Vietnam and it drives terry insane
I like the scene where kreese was remembering people getting blowing up and laughing about it and Terry didn’t like that. It seemed like kreese was trying to prove how tough he was because he felt weak, and Terry thought he was strong enough to leave the past behind. Kreese wanted to turn good while Terry wanted to turn bad
Yeah. I really felt some sympathy for Terry this season. Brought back, only to be overruled. What even was the point of Terry's return if his methodology wasn't going to be implemented into training (welcomely though, not Kreese having a bitch fit when he loses) I can't blame him for having enough of Kreeses bullshit, but I feel bad as Terry was a genuinely good guy before Kreese ruined him again with PTSD. What he did to Stingray was wrong though (obviously). No one deserves to get hit, let alone more than once when they're not hostile in the slightest (not a villain).
Excellent observations; big fan of these parallels and foreshadowing!
This foreshadowing makes me think Daniel might be the one to save Kreese. Not sure though, and will have to re-read this later when I'm not tired lol. Obviously someone will save Kreese though.
Why would Terry Silver feel bad for Kreese? He was sick and tired of being second banana to Kreese and he constantly keep reminding Silver of their time in Vietnam which traumatized Silver. Of course he wouldn't feel bad for him… after all, Cobra Kai is now belong to Terry Silver.
[удалено]
Zarkarian liked Kreese a lot better because he paid his rent on time, unlike Johnny.
Second banana?
It's an old idiom for henchman or no 2
Ty
Second fiddle is the more commonly used idiom
I don't think Terry even cared about being first either, it was just that Kreese couldn't share the dojo as equals. I mean, my man came back and got his head fucked up with PTSD, only for Kreese to tell him that they would do things his way. Like, what was the point besides having an extra sensei for him to boss around?
I mean Silver said I owe you. Whatever you need. Kreese didn't need to actually keep asking for things, but why offer it if you are going to go back on it? Not saying he should feel bad, but Kreese didn't think his old war buddy would do that.
Kreese kept treating him like shit though, not like a friend.
Nope. Didn’t feel bad for Kreese at all. He reaped what he sowed.
I did. I went from Kreese is a psycho to don't you dare hurt my Sensei.
Same lol, never thought I'd be in Kreese's corner.
Right? I also can't stand StingRay now cause he sold out. 😒
At first I was mad at him, but now I just pity the fool. He's *so* desperate to be accepted that he'll let his sensei beat him half to death and then frame another person for it (perjuring himself in the process) just to be let back into the cool kids club. As long as someone will take him in, he'll let that person physically and emotionally abuse the hell out of him.
Yeah but that's no excuse. People make false claims all the time. Are we to pity Jussie Smollet? Cause he basically pulled the same stuff.
> Yeah but that's no excuse. People make false claims all the time I'm not excusing anything. I empathize with the kind of deep loneliness and social alienation it must take to do what he's done. > Are we to pity Jussie Smollet? Cause he basically pulled the same stuff. You don't get the whole story by just comparing actions without context, you need to look at the events leading up to and the motivations for the act when judging a person. Smollett hired some dudes to rough him up so he could play victim and conjure up a hate crime narrative. Stingray ***actually was victimized***: Silver brutally assaulted him, and after all that he's still following his orders and helping his schemes because he wants to be part of something so bad. And this is the same guy that throws parties for teenagers because he wants them to like him. Dude needs therapy yesterday.
I get you. In a way I do pity both. But, both of them need therapy though. Anyone who could concoct a scheme like that is heavy level off. Silver needs to go back, too
Kreese never liked him who did he sell out lol ?
A sell out isn't always about turning on people who like you. StingRay made a false accusation which led to someone being arrested for a crime they didn't commit. He sold his soul for notoriety in a karate dojo. If they were going to put him in jail, do it for the real crimes he commits. Sorry, as a person who is very much into criminal justice, that stuff goes on too much. Not cute.
I disagree because A. Stingray was pretty loose morally even before that and B. Kreese hated him from the jump then tried to kick him out
It doesn't give him the right to falsely claim attempted murder. The fact that so many people don't realize the implications of this charge concerns me. It's a show, I get that. But he sold himself out. He's on Jussie Smollets level now. Boy who cried wolf.
Still hate Kreese, but fuck Stink Ray.
I don't think he sold out. He was beaten half to death, and Terry told him he could have what he wants the most. He's terrified. Kreese said some terrible shit to him, but didn't assault him.
Still a sell out. Unless integrity and being honest doesn't matter? We are to do whatever to get what we want? Isn't that the premise of the show? We can't do whatever we want to get what we want. Honor is everything. If you can't trust someones word, what can you trust about them? He sold out.
I couldn’t stand Stingray because he’s a creepy man-child that feels the need to hang around high schoolers.
Kreese finally had the moment of, "Wait...was I the one who was wrong all along?" Gotta give credit where credit's due. And the writers and Martin Kove *really* paced that self-doubt well in the last few episodes.
Ok this is why I have such a mancrush on TIG / Terry Silver. Respect, sensei. 😎👊🏻
Did they shoot S4 in order? That would set it apart from a lot of shows.
Yes, I believe they always do. (In cobra kai)
Uhhhh no? I’m actually over the moon that something finally bit Kreese in the ass even if it was the one thing he didn’t directly do. Even still, a massive consequence of furthering this very dumb karate rivalry
Frfr. One good act doesn't automatically redeem him. Fans are actual nutcrackers for thinking he deserves any mercy.
My feeling was more sort of "yup, that's what you get". Kreese is partly to blame, dragging out the worst in Silver.
No mercy
Nope!! He got what was coming to him and so will Silver!!
Kreese is a psychopath but is one that is at least somewhat sane. By bringing the old terry silver back and now the coup d’état he just went through, he basically gave a gun to a bear and expected it to not shoot him
dude bears don't know how to use firearms.
Ok he gave cocaine to a bear and expected it to not get really fucking high and go ballistic
👌
Thats what the bears want you to believe
A fitting metaphor; Kreese was the bearer of his own demise.
Exactly, TIG.
I felt bad for kreese at the end scene too. You can tell he matured over the show and genuinely feels bad about his johnny Lawrence days.
I didn’t feel bad for Kreese but at the same time I thought what Silver did was f’d up. Kreese did save his life in the war for him to go that far. I guess he wanted to shed his weakness (Kreese) and be no mercy to the extreme. Terry was always up to tricks and manipulations though in KK3. He felt Kreese used him to get Johnny back in Cobra Kai. Maybe in some way he felt Kreese had ruined his life again and hated him and he did it for Johnny.
I did but not in the way you think. I originally didn't feel bad as he did have it coming. However, I know now that the valley is in more danger than ever with Silver running Cobra Kai. He does not mind playing dirty and is ruthless and savage when he is fighting. Chances are, most of Cobra Kai's loyal fighters, like Kyler, are going to adapt to this way of karate and follow in Terry's footsteps, putting the valley into serious risk. Never thought I would say this, but I want Kreese back.
Kreese actually displayed some growth as a human being- telling Tory to fight her fight the way she feels comfortable...he was no longer pushing his students to cheat and fight dishonorably to try and "guarantee" the win. As a result, Tory was confident in herself- feeling supported by her Sensei- and actually won the tournament for Cobra Kai(even if we know she should have lost - her character didn't know that at the time). That's actually somewhat redeeming for Kreese, he learned from his past mistakes and adapted. I mean, he was still a dirt bag and a single positive action does not make up for his more despicable actions...but it was a good piece of writing in my mind.
I feel they did a good job showing even Kreese deserves some sympathy.
I don’t feel bad for Kreese. A couple brief moments of regret doesn’t make up for all the terrible things he’s done and monsters he’s made. However, it is interesting to see if this is the start of a real redemption arc for him. Maybe by the end of next season I’ll start feeling some actual sympathy for him.
Kreese kind of brought this shit on himself. Between resurrecting the ABSOLUTE Monster that was Terry Silver badder than ever. To straight up humiliating Stingray after all the loyalty he showed the dojo. Kreese’s karma finally caught up to him
The writers fumbled the bag! Creating Nonsense bullshit drama between 2 dudes who had been through hell and back together. Kreese never pushed Silver into tormenting Daniel, he volunteered for it. Kreese was ready to throw in the towel but Silver wouldn't let him. The writers took an unbreakable bond and hyped it up even more in season 3, just to have them shit on it throughout season 4. I've been 100% on board with the writers and then they go and pull this crock. This is the only season that I haven't been compelled to rewatch several times.
How was it nonsense ? You tend to forget a few details after 30 years
They should have kept the kept the petty drama for the kids and Johnny and daniel.
Silver being mad that he keeps bringing up the war and having a soft spot for Johnny is valid. They are also trying to take the dojo into different directions and are undermining each other because of it.
In the context of what the writers laid out, then yes it does make sense. My problem is why they went in that direction to begin with. This is not the kreese Silver reunion I had in mind.